Re: Topband: verticals by the sea
NEC modeling to determine the effects on the fields radiated by a vertical monopole when siting it near a salt-water coastline can be highly misleading if the surface wave field is not considered. For example, the plots linked below show that for average earth conductivity the E-field at 5 degrees elevation is about 2.44 times greater in the surface wave plot than in the far-field plot, at the same horizontal distance from the radiator. Their difference is infinite in the horizontal plane. But if this radiator was sited 1 km from the ocean, then the fields at 1 km shown in the surface wave plot would decay at nearly a 1/r rate as they propagated further on that bearing, along and over the ocean surface. This is a much different conclusion than reached when considering only the NEC far-field analysis. Comment/discussion is invited. R. Fry http://s24.postimg.org/6nchfpt1h/NEC_FF_vs_NF_Calcs.jpg _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: verticals by the sea
Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA Mike, Coreen Corey Keswick Ridge, NB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
Hi Herb, Stew's two element inverted-V beam was 265 feet above sea level, a spectacular location. The water tower is on the edge of a steep drop to the ocean. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Herbert Schoenbohm he...@vitelcom.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 4:24:19 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea Didn't Stew Perry, W1BB have basically and inverted Vee with open wire feeders at his famous Lighthouse QTH at Winthrop, MA? On 4/3/2015 12:48 PM, k1fz wrote: Years ago there was someone using an inverted V and doing quite well with DX. It was later found that he had a long vertical open wire feed line that was thought to be acting as vertical antenna. 73 Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Mike Smith VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Topband: verticals by the sea Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
On 3 Apr 2015, at 18:19, donov...@starpower.net donov...@starpower.net wrote: Stew's two element inverted-V beam was 265 feet above sea level, a spectacular location. The water tower is on the edge of a steep drop to the ocean. And you get an excellent view of the tower on final approach into Boston's Logan airport when arriving from UK. I made the pilgrimage to the tower a couple of years ago, happy memories of my first topband W. 73 Chris, G3SVL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: verticals by the sea
Hi Mike, There's some vertical polarization off the ends of an inverted-V, but is significantly down from the horizontally polarized radiation broadside to the antenna. The advantages of a seaside location for horizontal polarization are an unobstructed horizon and very efficient ground gain from an extremely flat Fresnel zone. Many carefully selected land locations can provide the same benefits. Unless you can install your inverted-V sufficiently high to produce significant low angle radiation, you would would do much better with a vertical very close to the sea shore or a salt marsh. Installing your inverted-V near the edge of a bluff overlooking the sea would also be excellent if its sufficiently close to the edge so that the inverted-V illuminates most of the near edge of the Fresnel zone. Of course, many land locations can provide the same benefits. The benefits of a flat Fresnel zone are discussed in detail in: https://archive.org/download/sitingcriteriafo139utla/sitingcriteriafo139utla.pdf 73 Frank W3LPL From: Mike Smith VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 3:17:48 PM Subject: Re: Topband: verticals by the sea Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA Mike, Coreen Corey Keswick Ridge, NB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
Didn't Stew Perry, W1BB have basically and inverted Vee with open wire feeders at his famous Lighthouse QTH at Winthrop, MA? On 4/3/2015 12:48 PM, k1fz wrote: Years ago there was someone using an inverted V and doing quite well with DX. It was later found that he had a long vertical open wire feed line that was thought to be acting as vertical antenna. 73 Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Mike Smith VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Topband: verticals by the sea Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
Another good example was D4B's 160 meter inverted-V Yagi that was setup near the edge of the bluff at the Monteverde contest site (now D4C). Al put in an incredible topband signal into the west coast of the USA. Once when I sent him an email complimenting him on his big signal, he wrote back and informed me that his amplifier was broken that weekend so he had been running in the low power category. I was totally floored. ZL8X also had a very good low power signal on topband. I think they were using an inverted-V up high in a tree along a cliff overlooking the ocean. 73, Mike W4EF.. On 4/3/2015 10:19 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: Hi Herb, Stew's two element inverted-V beam was 265 feet above sea level, a spectacular location. The water tower is on the edge of a steep drop to the ocean. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Herbert Schoenbohm he...@vitelcom.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 4:24:19 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea Didn't Stew Perry, W1BB have basically and inverted Vee with open wire feeders at his famous Lighthouse QTH at Winthrop, MA? On 4/3/2015 12:48 PM, k1fz wrote: Years ago there was someone using an inverted V and doing quite well with DX. It was later found that he had a long vertical open wire feed line that was thought to be acting as vertical antenna. 73 Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Mike Smith VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Topband: verticals by the sea Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth!
W3RE : Apparently you missed the references I cited for BBC Engineering reports.Apparently everyone else did also, as they've not been mentioned since. And as for only hams being aware of seaside gain, the entire MW DX community has taken that as a matter of course for a hundred years. It seems to me there has always been little cross-pollination between the MW and 160 DXers, which is a shame. MW DXers have a lot of knowledge based on the plethora of high powered transmitters all around the world operating 24 hours a day with non-changing (almost) antenna systems. Chuck Also w...@hudsonvalleytowers.com wrote: ... Is there any scientific data in print to prove the theory that ocean front property is better than a location inland about a mile or so on a ridge overlooking salt water for HF. ... I understand the theory that verticals literally in or on the water have a huge advantage It is not a theory that there is a remarkable increase in MF transmission when closely approaching saltwater waterline. It has been observed over at least a half century by what must now be millions of observers, certainly the vast majority not hams, observed at least since inexpensive transistorized portable radios were available around 1960. These and millions of others took these radios everywhere with them, and it was soon common knowledge that you could hear the New York AM stations all day long if you took the radio out over the salt water at east coast ocean beaches as far south as Cape Hatteras. Not a bit of theory involved, just undeniable observation. The wow factor of this has severely diminished since the internet, and nobody except hams thinks that hearing NYC AM stations during the day down the east coast is the least interesting. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth!
While reading this thread, the concept of purchasing the Radio Caroline ship came to mind several times. It would probably be cheaper than the land, if it is still available. :) 73 Art NK8X On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 5:39 PM, N2TK, Tony tony@verizon.net wrote: And it is very close to a nice golf course N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 1:04 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Hi Paul, Its the perfect location for a Topband 4-square array! It would be even better if the array were in the marsh... Marshland Road, Hilton Head Island https://www.google.com/maps/place/32%C2%B012%2701.0%22N+80%C2%B043%2727.0%22 W/@32.1999078,-80.7241131,234m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0 https://www.google.com/maps/place/32%C2%B012%2701.0%22N+80%C2%B043%2727.0%22W/@32.1999078,-80.7241131,234m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0 Is there a Marshland Road on the Maine coast? 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 5:32:23 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Rich, Have a look at 1KW 1130 AM on Hilton Head Island, SC (WHHW-AM). At 12 noon on any day, I can easily ride that signal down the Space Coast of FL and about 10 miles inland. That's the entire coast of GA, part of SC and half of FL. Paul, W9AC -Original Message- From: Richard Fry Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 9:42 AM To: HVT ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Below is a link to the groundwave field of a 1 kW non-directional AM broadcast station located about 1 mile from the Atlantic, in Florida. The groundwave field shown is based on the FCC M3 conductivity map, and their GW propagation charts for this frequency and power. The space wave fields radiated by vertical monopoles are related to their groundwave fields, so space wave fields radiated over (mostly) salt-water paths are much greater in magnitude than over terra firma (other things equal). Maybe this will give a rough idea of what to expect from a sea-coast QTH in Maine. R. Fry http://s20.postimg.org/ylw4y5vn1/WMFJ_1_k_W_1450_k_Hz_Pt_Orange_FL.jpg _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth!
A LID operating QRO at an excellent northeastern US sea view site with excellent antennas -- is still only a *loud* LID, who is able to cause a lot more interference and consternation than a weak LID. The above is an excellent example of confrontational interoperability, and close to the examples of good and bad' interoperability I share with my students, Guy!!! 72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV From: k2av@gmail.com Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 15:59:39 -0400 To: donov...@starpower.net CC: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 12:17 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: Its not practical to place a vertical closer than 1/4 wavelength of an ocean beachfront except in a temporary installation such as a DXpedition. Also w...@hudsonvalleytowers.com wrote: ... Is there any scientific data in print to prove the theory that ocean front property is better than a location inland about a mile or so on a ridge overlooking salt water for HF. ... I understand the theory that verticals literally in or on the water have a huge advantage It is not a theory that there is a remarkable increase in MF transmission when closely approaching saltwater waterline. It has been observed over at least a half century by what must now be millions of observers, certainly the vast majority not hams, observed at least since inexpensive transistorized portable radios were available around 1960. The 1960 date sticks in my mind because of a story that circulates among Berea College alumni to this day about transistor radios scattered among 1200 students stuck in a terribly boring required general assembly lecture. Some 15 or 20 of these new all-the-rage radios were scattered all over the assembly hall, and were tuned in to the 7th game of the 1960 world series between Pittsburgh and the Yankees. Back then there were no earbuds to go stealth. Volumes were low, but loud enough to hear without the giveaway of the radio resting upon the ear. The winning run in the bottom of the ninth resulted in barely suppressed cheers and moans and the cumulative uproar of whispers mercifully brought the lecturer to a bewildered halt. We received an outraged dressing down from the college president who, to his credit, was the first up on the stage to figure out what was going on, and who apparently was not a baseball fan. I won't get into why I know it was terribly boring. But I digress... These and millions of others took these radios everywhere with them, and it was soon common knowledge that you could hear the New York AM stations all day long if you took the radio out over the salt water at east coast ocean beaches as far south as Cape Hatteras. Not a bit of theory involved, just undeniable observation. The wow factor of this has severely diminished since the internet, and nobody except hams thinks that hearing NYC AM stations during the day down the east coast is the least interesting. The question now is why can't the complainer text high definition video to anywhere in the world over the internet in five seconds or less. But transistor radios were really neat new affordable stuff in 1960. The depth of the drop off walking away from the beach, the inverse of the improvement walking toward it, exposes the answer to your question. Whatever the theory, the fact remains of an often reported sharp change in signals across several hundred meters, sometimes in significantly less distance. The mysteries of near-to-ocean propagation or losses become less foggy if one always carefully considers ground media loss in discussions. Ground losses continue to be the undiscovered country of top band transmitting antenna discussions, remarkably ignored in many discussions about 160 meter antennas that require a counterpoise. These ignored counterpoise issues can take back expensive amplifier gain with losses as large. Models depend on a monolithic uniform ground all the way to and beyond the horizon and uniform to deep depth. Models need this to simplify computer computations so they can run on ordinary PC's in times that are measured in minutes rather than months or years. Accurate 160m modeling of what goes on from 100 meters out in the water, across a sandy beach to 10 kilometers inland cannot be accomplished with available resources and program code. Some investigators have set up carefully at a site with antenna and serious commercial measuring equipment, and have simply been unable to get measurements to match a model, regardless of the ground characteristics specified in the model. At the water line, the remaining difficulty at this point would be support of a vertical. An FCP above and parallel to the water line or out over the water would be a very efficient counterpoise and quite easy to erect with inexpensive materials. A shortened aluminum vertical with large gauge appropriately located loading coils could do very
Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth!
And it is very close to a nice golf course N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 1:04 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Hi Paul, Its the perfect location for a Topband 4-square array! It would be even better if the array were in the marsh... Marshland Road, Hilton Head Island https://www.google.com/maps/place/32%C2%B012%2701.0%22N+80%C2%B043%2727.0%22 W/@32.1999078,-80.7241131,234m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0 Is there a Marshland Road on the Maine coast? 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 5:32:23 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Rich, Have a look at 1KW 1130 AM on Hilton Head Island, SC (WHHW-AM). At 12 noon on any day, I can easily ride that signal down the Space Coast of FL and about 10 miles inland. That's the entire coast of GA, part of SC and half of FL. Paul, W9AC -Original Message- From: Richard Fry Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 9:42 AM To: HVT ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Below is a link to the groundwave field of a 1 kW non-directional AM broadcast station located about 1 mile from the Atlantic, in Florida. The groundwave field shown is based on the FCC M3 conductivity map, and their GW propagation charts for this frequency and power. The space wave fields radiated by vertical monopoles are related to their groundwave fields, so space wave fields radiated over (mostly) salt-water paths are much greater in magnitude than over terra firma (other things equal). Maybe this will give a rough idea of what to expect from a sea-coast QTH in Maine. R. Fry http://s20.postimg.org/ylw4y5vn1/WMFJ_1_k_W_1450_k_Hz_Pt_Orange_FL.jpg _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
One could also get an idea of driving you car across a causeway or bridge of a salt water inlet while listening to an AM station up on the high end of the AM band and observing the sometimes astounding weak signal enhancement. Many times also the power line noises and other industrial QRN is gone. In fact if there is one of these bridges or causeways near your QTH you might consider locating a SDR receiver, solar powered, with internet WI-max connection, loop antenna or Hi-Zi for the low bands, if of course you could convince the highway department that it was needed to collect scientific data or some other viable excuse. Such a device could be shared with other TB enthusiasts in your immediate area in order to help pay for the minor investment. I don't mean to start another round of debate on remote RX enhancement by a close proximity remote receiver but the experiences of ZL3IX and others has proven they can make the difference in hearing TB DX or not. Last month the entire power grid was down while I was listening to E30FB on TB with the big UPS battery backup running the rig. Out of nowhere I located him working EU's so I know I had a chance for a new country on 160. When the power returned and the amp warmed up I was able to get in the log with the 900 foot Beverage 90 degree used on RX. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 4/3/2015 2:50 PM, Chris G3SVL wrote: On 3 Apr 2015, at 18:19, donov...@starpower.net donov...@starpower.net wrote: Stew's two element inverted-V beam was 265 feet above sea level, a spectacular location. The water tower is on the edge of a steep drop to the ocean. And you get an excellent view of the tower on final approach into Boston's Logan airport when arriving from UK. I made the pilgrimage to the tower a couple of years ago, happy memories of my first topband W. 73 Chris, G3SVL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Salt-Water Qth!
On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 12:17 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: Its not practical to place a vertical closer than 1/4 wavelength of an ocean beachfront except in a temporary installation such as a DXpedition. Also w...@hudsonvalleytowers.com wrote: ... Is there any scientific data in print to prove the theory that ocean front property is better than a location inland about a mile or so on a ridge overlooking salt water for HF. ... I understand the theory that verticals literally in or on the water have a huge advantage It is not a theory that there is a remarkable increase in MF transmission when closely approaching saltwater waterline. It has been observed over at least a half century by what must now be millions of observers, certainly the vast majority not hams, observed at least since inexpensive transistorized portable radios were available around 1960. The 1960 date sticks in my mind because of a story that circulates among Berea College alumni to this day about transistor radios scattered among 1200 students stuck in a terribly boring required general assembly lecture. Some 15 or 20 of these new all-the-rage radios were scattered all over the assembly hall, and were tuned in to the 7th game of the 1960 world series between Pittsburgh and the Yankees. Back then there were no earbuds to go stealth. Volumes were low, but loud enough to hear without the giveaway of the radio resting upon the ear. The winning run in the bottom of the ninth resulted in barely suppressed cheers and moans and the cumulative uproar of whispers mercifully brought the lecturer to a bewildered halt. We received an outraged dressing down from the college president who, to his credit, was the first up on the stage to figure out what was going on, and who apparently was not a baseball fan. I won't get into why I know it was terribly boring. But I digress... These and millions of others took these radios everywhere with them, and it was soon common knowledge that you could hear the New York AM stations all day long if you took the radio out over the salt water at east coast ocean beaches as far south as Cape Hatteras. Not a bit of theory involved, just undeniable observation. The wow factor of this has severely diminished since the internet, and nobody except hams thinks that hearing NYC AM stations during the day down the east coast is the least interesting. The question now is why can't the complainer text high definition video to anywhere in the world over the internet in five seconds or less. But transistor radios were really neat new affordable stuff in 1960. The depth of the drop off walking away from the beach, the inverse of the improvement walking toward it, exposes the answer to your question. Whatever the theory, the fact remains of an often reported sharp change in signals across several hundred meters, sometimes in significantly less distance. The mysteries of near-to-ocean propagation or losses become less foggy if one always carefully considers ground media loss in discussions. Ground losses continue to be the undiscovered country of top band transmitting antenna discussions, remarkably ignored in many discussions about 160 meter antennas that require a counterpoise. These ignored counterpoise issues can take back expensive amplifier gain with losses as large. Models depend on a monolithic uniform ground all the way to and beyond the horizon and uniform to deep depth. Models need this to simplify computer computations so they can run on ordinary PC's in times that are measured in minutes rather than months or years. Accurate 160m modeling of what goes on from 100 meters out in the water, across a sandy beach to 10 kilometers inland cannot be accomplished with available resources and program code. Some investigators have set up carefully at a site with antenna and serious commercial measuring equipment, and have simply been unable to get measurements to match a model, regardless of the ground characteristics specified in the model. At the water line, the remaining difficulty at this point would be support of a vertical. An FCP above and parallel to the water line or out over the water would be a very efficient counterpoise and quite easy to erect with inexpensive materials. A shortened aluminum vertical with large gauge appropriately located loading coils could do very well in the short term. It would have a narrow bandwidth, not being weighed down and broadbanded by ground losses invoked by the antenna and the counterpoise. But the reality of salt spray, wind, etc easily renders temporary anything other than a tower and guys on piers ala the San Francisco station mentioned earlier. And even that would require ongoing maintenance. The sea view cliffside location, with steps taken to minimize losses directly underneath the antenna, seems best all band all around. Some argue there is a surface wave phenomenon right over the water, demonstrated gone after a few hundred meters inland. Such an actual
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
One could also get an idea of driving you car across a causeway or bridge of a salt water inlet while listening to an AM station up on the high end of the AM band and observing the sometimes astounding weak signal enhancement. Many times also the power line noises and other industrial QRN is gone. So true unless you happen to be in the blessed state of Connecticut where AMTRAK follows the coastline incredibly closely from one end to the other. AMTRAK's overhead power lines are constantly exposed to salty moisture after years of this environment, often makes for horrific RFI. The railway has affected CT in access to the ocean as well, you have to find an over or underpass to get past the railway and there aren't many of them. There's no RR crossings I know of. the coastline being flat and so close to the water means most of the ocean inlets have RR bridges that are so close to the water that most boats with a windshield can't get through at high tide, forget having one with a cabin. As an AMTRAK passenger you do get a spectacular view to the East. As I've mentioned here before, I'm right on a salt marsh and AMTRAK is less than 50' from my property about 100' from my antennas. When AMTRAK is acting up, AM station reception around here is not so spectacular. Once you get into the clear the reception on salt water is fantastic. 73, Gary KA1J --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: verticals by the sea
Mike An Inverted V does have the same lobe horizontal and vertical but they are 90 degree apart, If you run EZENEC and change description option to Ver. Hor. and Total field, you will see that at 0 degree Horizontal is maximum and Vertical is zero, at 45 degree both fields are the same, and at 90 degree Horizontal is zero and Vertical is max. However close to good ground the horizontal signals is attenuated so in practice the inverted V near the see will radiate only vertical in the direction of the wire. Better solution is a vertical with the radial inside the salt water., just toss few feet of wire inside the water, more is always better, the electrical contact with the salt water is the key point here. The wire will break , keep adding some more every day. You can check the TX3A antenna document from AA7JV, it has an elegant using a T vertical vertical. http://www.tx3a.com/equipment.html 73's JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Smith VE9AA Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 11:18 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: verticals by the sea Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA Mike, Coreen Corey Keswick Ridge, NB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
What a fantastic location. Looking at the houses surrounding it reminds me of a google maps view I checked out of the Sphinx Pyramids recently, I had no idea they were surrounded by houses. Makes me appreciate rural mountain top sites all the more. 73, Gary KA1J This is a photo of the famous W1BB water tower in Winthrop, MA. http://www.sylviaplath.info/photos/winthrop9.jpg I've seen it many times flying into Boston Logan Airport. The photo was apparently taken at low tide. Europe is off towards the upper right hand corner of the photo, the runways are only a mile away. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: donov...@starpower.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 5:19:11 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea Hi Herb, Stew's two element inverted-V beam was 265 feet above sea level, a spectacular location. The water tower is on the edge of a steep drop to the ocean. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Herbert Schoenbohm he...@vitelcom.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 4:24:19 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea Didn't Stew Perry, W1BB have basically and inverted Vee with open wire feeders at his famous Lighthouse QTH at Winthrop, MA? On 4/3/2015 12:48 PM, k1fz wrote: Years ago there was someone using an inverted V and doing quite well with DX. It was later found that he had a long vertical open wire feed line that was thought to be acting as vertical antenna. 73 Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Mike Smith VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Topband: verticals by the sea Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: MFJ 259B
http://www.w8ji.com/mfj-259b_calibration.htm - Original Message - From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 11:35:48 PM Subject: Re: Topband: MFJ 259B On Fri,4/3/2015 4:27 PM, Hardy Landskov wrote: My 259B seems to have drifted for lack of a better term. A 100 ohm resistor now measures 85 ohms. There are some trim pots inside but no directions on how to adjust them or align the unit. Should I send it back or ??? W8JI published some alignment instructions on his website. I found and used them about eight years ago. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: MFJ 259B
Frank, Jim, et al, Ok great. I hope the problem is solved. Happy Easter 73 Hardy N7RT -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 4:40 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: MFJ 259B http://www.w8ji.com/mfj-259b_calibration.htm - Original Message - From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 11:35:48 PM Subject: Re: Topband: MFJ 259B On Fri,4/3/2015 4:27 PM, Hardy Landskov wrote: My 259B seems to have drifted for lack of a better term. A 100 ohm resistor now measures 85 ohms. There are some trim pots inside but no directions on how to adjust them or align the unit. Should I send it back or ??? W8JI published some alignment instructions on his website. I found and used them about eight years ago. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: MFJ 259B
On Fri,4/3/2015 4:27 PM, Hardy Landskov wrote: My 259B seems to have drifted for lack of a better term. A 100 ohm resistor now measures 85 ohms. There are some trim pots inside but no directions on how to adjust them or align the unit. Should I send it back or ??? W8JI published some alignment instructions on his website. I found and used them about eight years ago. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
Just two years DU7ET worked WAS on 160m using an inverted V. Robert had a good signal long path almost every day for six months. By the way , he told me he will be active from DU7ET again starting is October. 73 JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 1:19 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea Hi Herb, Stew's two element inverted-V beam was 265 feet above sea level, a spectacular location. The water tower is on the edge of a steep drop to the ocean. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Herbert Schoenbohm he...@vitelcom.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 4:24:19 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea Didn't Stew Perry, W1BB have basically and inverted Vee with open wire feeders at his famous Lighthouse QTH at Winthrop, MA? On 4/3/2015 12:48 PM, k1fz wrote: Years ago there was someone using an inverted V and doing quite well with DX. It was later found that he had a long vertical open wire feed line that was thought to be acting as vertical antenna. 73 Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Mike Smith VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Topband: verticals by the sea Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea
This is a photo of the famous W1BB water tower in Winthrop, MA. http://www.sylviaplath.info/photos/winthrop9.jpg I've seen it many times flying into Boston Logan Airport. The photo was apparently taken at low tide. Europe is off towards the upper right hand corner of the photo, the runways are only a mile away. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: donov...@starpower.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 5:19:11 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea Hi Herb, Stew's two element inverted-V beam was 265 feet above sea level, a spectacular location. The water tower is on the edge of a steep drop to the ocean. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Herbert Schoenbohm he...@vitelcom.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 4:24:19 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: verticals by the sea Didn't Stew Perry, W1BB have basically and inverted Vee with open wire feeders at his famous Lighthouse QTH at Winthrop, MA? On 4/3/2015 12:48 PM, k1fz wrote: Years ago there was someone using an inverted V and doing quite well with DX. It was later found that he had a long vertical open wire feed line that was thought to be acting as vertical antenna. 73 Bruce-K1FZ - Original Message - From: Mike Smith VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Topband: verticals by the sea Is there any advantage to using an inverted VEE by the sea? Didn't I read inverted VEEs had a lot of vertical polarization? Reason I ask is I plan to do the IOTA contest on an Island in NB or NS and have not yet decided on an antenna. Thanks, Mike VE9AA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: MFJ 259B
My 259B seems to have drifted for lack of a better term. A 100 ohm resistor now measures 85 ohms. There are some trim pots inside but no directions on how to adjust them or align the unit. Should I send it back or ??? 73 Hardy N7RT _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
