Re: Topband: Best wire antenna for roof top location

2015-08-11 Thread Jim Brown
Ah, perfection. Sadly, EZNEC does not provide that set of options. If I 
could build that model, I would. But I can't.  I will take this first 
approximation, understanding its limitations.  Brown's 99th law -- never 
let perfect be the enemy of good.  We don't know the nature of that 
roof, so modeling several possibilities and using the result to TRY 
things seems like a pretty good approach to me.


73, Jim K9YC

On Tue,8/11/2015 12:42 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
In order to estimate your hypothesis you need to create a building 
shaped cage of dielectric wrapped, resistively loaded, interconnected 
wires. It is necessary to bookkeep in the model that the roof, as 
conductor, is connected to a vertical conducting face on four sides 
and then to ground.


These faces electrically are at least in the quarter to half 
wavelength range vertically and can radically effect the appearance of 
the roof as conductor. These faces can have significant radiation. 
These faces can be the majority radiator with the dipole serving 
mainly as a matching device to the building as majority radiator.


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Re: Topband: Best wire antenna for roof top location

2015-08-11 Thread Guy Olinger K2AV
Hi Jim,

I must respectfully disagree. And warn any reader that using NEC ground
media to simulate a conductive roof is a very troubled procedure with
significant issues.

Using the first media to simulate an elevated conductive plane for any
purpose is a problem. Using it to simulate radials is simply the ubiquitous
recurring error (out of a class of errors) that W7EL specifically lists as
the example in self defense. You are putting forth a rare invocation of
this same NEC weakness.

In order to estimate your hypothesis you need to create a building shaped
cage of dielectric wrapped, resistively loaded, interconnected wires. It is
necessary to bookkeep in the model that the roof, as conductor, is
connected to a vertical conducting face on four sides and then to ground.

These faces electrically are at least in the quarter to half wavelength
range vertically and can radically effect the appearance of the roof as
conductor. These faces can have significant radiation. These faces can be
the majority radiator with the dipole serving mainly as a matching device
to the building as majority radiator.

It is not inconceivable that the combination could function more like a big
dummy load.

73, Guy K2AV

On Monday, August 10, 2015, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote:

 Actually, what he says is not use the high level media to model a RADIAL
 system.

 While playing with this model, I changed the characteristics of the higher
 level media to have far less conductivity. The result suggested that my
 model was good for what I was trying to understand -- that is, the very low
 far field lobe was unaffected by the conductivity of the high level media
 (that is, the roof).

 73, Jim K9YC

 On Mon,8/10/2015 6:48 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

 There is a rather stern W7EL caution in the EZNEC doc about using two
 ground media. He particularly nixes using the inner media as sea water
 to mimic a high conductive surface.


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Topband: Laurel Hardy

2015-08-11 Thread Tom Boucher
Frank,

Interesting that in the 1930s you folk in the colonies called the thing an 
“aerial” and not an “antenna”!

73
Tom G3OLB
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