Topband: VP8STI 2016-01-23

[Steve Sacco NN4X]

VP8STI was workable - and working - 160M -  into the US/NA 2016-01-23 
around 05:00 Z.


For the first time w/ VP8STI, my K9AY loops actually could detect them - 
I heard them approximately equally well in the SW and SE directions, but 
I was also copying them on my vertical.  I was also able to listen to 
them on my NE Beverage, which probably goes to show that, sometimes, 
it's about removing QRN as much as anything.


They went into my log at 15:02Z; as it was late, I didn't stick around 
much after that to see how long we had prop.


Now to work them on 10M.

73,
Steve
NN4X
EL98jh



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Lee STRAHAN]

Rich uses the Hi-Z 4-8 Pro

Lee

From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:06 AM
To: Lee STRAHAN 
Cc: 160 
Subject: Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

Exactly what antenna was he using? All we know is that it wasn't the Hi-Z 8A.
73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Lee STRAHAN 
> wrote:
 he was using one of my own antennas invented ... I am doubly crushed that it 
was one of my second tier designs that had whipped me so soundly.

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Dave Pascoe]

Data sets consisting of one observation are highly suspect. But when it's
all the data you have, ...   :-)

In other news, 225 miles can definitely make a difference on 160m.

Dave KM3T


On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Mike Waters  wrote:

> Thanks. Assuming for a minute that it wasn't the location, how might that
> antenna have been superior?
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Lee STRAHAN  wrote:
>
> > Rich uses the Hi-Z 4-8 Pro
> >
> >
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:06 AM
> > *To:* Lee STRAHAN 
> > *Cc:* 160 
> > *Subject:* Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma
> >
> >
> >
> > Exactly what antenna was he using? All we know is that it wasn't the Hi-Z
> > 8A.
> >
> > 73, Mike
> >
> > www.w0btu.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Lee STRAHAN  wrote:
> >
> >  he was using one of my own antennas invented ... I am doubly crushed
> that
> > it was one of my second tier designs that had whipped me so soundly.
> >
> >
> >
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI last night - Report from Maryland

[Les Kalmus]

Glad you made it Gary.

73, Les W2LK

On 1/22/2016 10:54 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

Bill,

Never say never. I worked them at 02:13 last night (Thanks Roger for
the email today saying you'd heard the contact). It was right after
they stopped working EU and I was waiting patiently on frequency till
I heard them CQ without the EU designator.

The Hi-Z triangular was a saving grace for me, I would like one of
the Hi-Z 8A variety.

Anyone have one to let go of? I'm also interested in a NCC-1; contact
me off list if you would.

73,

Gary
KA1J


 From Maryland, FM 19:

Armchair copy last nite from 2350Z until 0215Z this morning.  Some fading.
With my headphones laying on the bench, they were Q5 solid copy while
I was working on other projects waiting for them to call for "NA" instead of
"EU".
Never happened.

I stayed & listened until 0215Z when they faded out here.

I'm using a Hi-Z 4-sq.  Azimuth heading to VP8S is 155 Deg.  4-SQ heading
used was 134 Deg.

Bill N3RR

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ken Boasi
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 12:18 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: VP8STI last night

Just my observations from what happened here last night in NY (doesn't help
you west coast guys, I guess).

VP8STI was solid copy from my sunset around 2230z until 0200z. Very little
fading and Q5 copy. They were calling and working EU only during this
period.

Around 0200z, their signal got much weaker and more susceptible to QSB. They
also started calling for anyone at that time, not just EU. I don't know if
they switched direction on their TX array or not at that point, but things
did get worse at that point; propagation I'm assuming.

I use two 560' beverages to receive, one at 135 degrees and one at 180
degrees. No diversity rx, just switching back and forth. They were the same
copy on both antennas, generally, since both are about the same amount "off"
of STI's hearing from here (FN13, western NY).

I didn't listen much after 0200z, so I don't know if their signal came back
up at any point.

They did have an excellent run of EU during that 2200-0200 time frame,
though.

73, Ken N2ZN


On Jan 22, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Tom  wrote:

N6SS is located about 40 miles north west of me in AZ,, 2800 feet higher

in elevation and a lot quieter location,,and better receiving antennas,, I
have not heard but just traces past 2 nights,, will be there tonight,, been
listening to the east coast guys working them,, all signals have been great
except Vp8!! Congrats to all that have worked them and maybe tonite the
propagation gods will shine west!!!

73's
Tom

-Original Message-
From: Tree 
Sender: "Topband" 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 06:57:33
To: 160
Subject: Topband: VP8STI last night in Oregon

At least in my location - I would say that things were no better last

night.

N6SS in Arizona said he worked them just after 0400Z.  There was also
a report that he came back to N6MB about 10 times around 0430Z - but
N6MB was not hearing him.  The data suggests they are hearing better
than getting out - which means if you can hear them - the spotlight is
shining on you and you have a pretty good chance of making the QSO.

If it was easy - it wouldn't be as rewarding when it happens!!

Good luck to all.

73 Tree N6TR
Hillsboro, OR

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI 2016-01-23

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

Steve they are on 28485 down 5 right now with a great op and good 
conditions to NA.


GL

Herb, KV4FZ

On 1/23/2016 12:47 PM, Steve Sacco NN4X wrote:

Now to work them on 10M.

73,
Steve
NN4X
EL98jh 


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Lee STRAHAN]

   Well, it was not as if I did not know it was going to happen someday, I had 
remained pretty cheeky until this time. I had often knew it was sure to come. I 
have remained pretty self-content that I had invented the ultimate DX antenna 
for the state of Oregon. The Hi-Z 8A. In the hours that I had spent trying to 
work DX on 160 I had remained convinced that I could hear everything that 
anyone else in Oregon could hear. After all I had taken 5 years out of my early 
retirement life inventing surely in my mind the monster of all receiving 
antennas for 160. But it was last night the 22nd of January 2016 when I was 
finally humbled by my friend in Grants Pass Oregon some 225 highway miles 
Southwest of me.  I knew it was coming someday. I had my earphones plugged into 
to my trusty Orion 1 transceiver when I saw a post from my friend that he was 
hearing the VP8 very well and of all the nerve he was using one of my own 
antennas invented right here in this little town of 1360 people wi
 th no stop lights. Of all the nerve. Well I said to myself the VP8 will clear 
up here any moment. I listened and tuned the Old Orion, which by the way I 
still think is better at 160 than the K3, sure enough I could hear a character 
or 2 of the VP8. I listened and listened and it never got but little better. I 
called a few times when I was convinced I might just squeak through but alas I 
thought he may have come back to me but horrors, maybe I remain in the group 
reported to have been called and not heard. And so it is here on the morning of 
the 23rd I remain crushed by my own ego and at my own hand. Congratulations 
Rich K7ZV, I covet your mountain top location now because you have answered the 
question I have pondered for a long time. Now I am truly convinced that the 
mountain top locations really must be better on the low frequencies like 160. I 
am doubly crushed that it was one of my second tier designs that had whipped me 
so soundly. And so it is with my mind turning at t
 op speed today, which one of my antennas or how many should I place at this 
1250 foot peak just 2 miles due South of my QTH with NO power lines and would 
it be worth the effort. Hmmm of course it would after all I have what I read a 
long time ago on Tree's web stuff. I am inflicted, yes you guessed it the 
dreaded 160 disease. Hmmm wonder if I could hear 630 meters up there. So it is 
now I thank my friend Rich which took the smile off my face last eve and left 
me with Hmmm why not, that peak sure is appealing and it belongs to the Federal 
grass lands.  Surely I could get a grazing permit for some signal hungry 
aluminum  and inconvenienced electrons corralled in some suitable enclosures. I 
need to call my friend whom is a digital guy and pick his brain about wifi 
remoting. I gotta go guys, got lots to do to prepare for next year. Granted my 
health, I am in.

Congratulations to all whom have made it. I will try until they leave. It was 
better last night, surely it will be better tonight.

Lee  K7TJR   Central Oregon


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Mike Waters]

Exactly what antenna was he using? All we know is that it wasn't the Hi-Z
8A.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Lee STRAHAN  wrote:

>  he was using one of my own antennas invented ... I am doubly crushed that
> it was one of my second tier designs that had whipped me so soundly.
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Mike Waters]

Thanks. Assuming for a minute that it wasn't the location, how might that
antenna have been superior?

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Lee STRAHAN  wrote:

> Rich uses the Hi-Z 4-8 Pro
>
>
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:06 AM
> *To:* Lee STRAHAN 
> *Cc:* 160 
> *Subject:* Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma
>
>
>
> Exactly what antenna was he using? All we know is that it wasn't the Hi-Z
> 8A.
>
> 73, Mike
>
> www.w0btu.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Lee STRAHAN  wrote:
>
>  he was using one of my own antennas invented ... I am doubly crushed that
> it was one of my second tier designs that had whipped me so soundly.
>
>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Tom]

Thanks Lee,,, your dialogue made me feel much better!! I too listened while 
Rich worked him and thought for sure my location in Arizona DM34, would be next 
for them to pop out of the noise, but then hearing the KH6's work them,  and 
still just bits and pieces here, I knew last night was not my night,,,I am 
throwing together a BOG today to try and snag them tonight, ,,, one interesting 
note,,, I heard them twice at 559 for their complete sequence, about 15 min 
before their SR,,  when they were working some 4's,,, but lasted maybe 3 
seconds, then they were back in the noise,,, reminded me of Airplane scatter on 
the Uhf/microwave bands, or meteor scatter,, 160 is truly an interesting and 
challenging band and as Forrest Gump put it," its like a box of 
chocolates,, you never know what ya gonna get" !! 
Congrats to all that worked them  and see the rest of you tonight  for 
another round!! 
73's 
Tom

-Original Message-
From: Lee STRAHAN 
Sender: "Topband" 
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:56:05 
To: '160'
Subject: Topband: VP8STI  Humor, Design engineer trauma

   Well, it was not as if I did not know it was going to happen someday, I had 
remained pretty cheeky until this time. I had often knew it was sure to come. I 
have remained pretty self-content that I had invented the ultimate DX antenna 
for the state of Oregon. The Hi-Z 8A. In the hours that I had spent trying to 
work DX on 160 I had remained convinced that I could hear everything that 
anyone else in Oregon could hear. After all I had taken 5 years out of my early 
retirement life inventing surely in my mind the monster of all receiving 
antennas for 160. But it was last night the 22nd of January 2016 when I was 
finally humbled by my friend in Grants Pass Oregon some 225 highway miles 
Southwest of me.  I knew it was coming someday. I had my earphones plugged into 
to my trusty Orion 1 transceiver when I saw a post from my friend that he was 
hearing the VP8 very well and of all the nerve he was using one of my own 
antennas invented right here in this little town of 1360 people wi
 th no stop lights. Of all the nerve. Well I said to myself the VP8 will clear 
up here any moment. I listened and tuned the Old Orion, which by the way I 
still think is better at 160 than the K3, sure enough I could hear a character 
or 2 of the VP8. I listened and listened and it never got but little better. I 
called a few times when I was convinced I might just squeak through but alas I 
thought he may have come back to me but horrors, maybe I remain in the group 
reported to have been called and not heard. And so it is here on the morning of 
the 23rd I remain crushed by my own ego and at my own hand. Congratulations 
Rich K7ZV, I covet your mountain top location now because you have answered the 
question I have pondered for a long time. Now I am truly convinced that the 
mountain top locations really must be better on the low frequencies like 160. I 
am doubly crushed that it was one of my second tier designs that had whipped me 
so soundly. And so it is with my mind turning at t
 op speed today, which one of my antennas or how many should I place at this 
1250 foot peak just 2 miles due South of my QTH with NO power lines and would 
it be worth the effort. Hmmm of course it would after all I have what I read a 
long time ago on Tree's web stuff. I am inflicted, yes you guessed it the 
dreaded 160 disease. Hmmm wonder if I could hear 630 meters up there. So it is 
now I thank my friend Rich which took the smile off my face last eve and left 
me with Hmmm why not, that peak sure is appealing and it belongs to the Federal 
grass lands.  Surely I could get a grazing permit for some signal hungry 
aluminum  and inconvenienced electrons corralled in some suitable enclosures. I 
need to call my friend whom is a digital guy and pick his brain about wifi 
remoting. I gotta go guys, got lots to do to prepare for next year. Granted my 
health, I am in.

Congratulations to all whom have made it. I will try until they leave. It was 
better last night, surely it will be better tonight.

Lee  K7TJR   Central Oregon


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: VP8STI last night - Report from Maryland

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

Last night I heard so many times that VP8STI repeatedly returned to NA
callers  and sent the report with no reply. Its with the QSB peaks and
valleys alone with QRN this is going to be a common problem for those
hoping for a TB ATNO.  STI is hearing callers with simple Inverted "L"
and dipoles but the limited RX ability of many callers is unfortunate.
My suggestion for them is to go to Home Deport or Lowes and buy some
THHN wire to run a bog SE or SSE  just for this operation. Even some CAT
5 Cable using two of the twisted pairs alone with the others floating
will work.  Even those with small yards can beg the neighbors to run it
over their picket fence or on the snow this afternoon and terminate it
with a a 250 ohm resistor to a small 3 or 4 foot  ground rod...even a
steel pipe is better than nothing.   On the feed end if you don't have a
ferrite core to make the right feed transformer you might even try a
direct feed with your coax run back to you Receiver.  It may not be
pretty but could make the difference between a contact or none. As long
as you get some noise on RX you will be amazed how the signal from
VP8STI jumps out of it at times.  The idea is you don't want to have
other noise pick up from other directions and sources competing with
it.  To make my point, I listened to VP8STI for hours at 579 and even
peaking at time higher, but when I switched to my TX vertical antenna
they were unreadable.

If you have time try a BOG and it doesn't have to pretty to work.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 1/22/2016 7:10 PM, Bill Hider wrote:

 From Maryland, FM 19:

Armchair copy last nite from 2350Z until 0215Z this morning.  Some fading.
With my headphones laying on the bench, they were Q5 solid copy while
I was working on other projects waiting for them to call for "NA" instead of
"EU".
Never happened.

I stayed & listened until 0215Z when they faded out here.

I'm using a Hi-Z 4-sq.  Azimuth heading to VP8S is 155 Deg.  4-SQ heading
used was 134 Deg.

Bill N3RR




_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: VP8STI last night - Report from Cape Town

[Raoul Coetzee via Topband]

The pattern in ZS the last couple of nights was the same:Nada till about 23:30 
UTC, then they would come out of the noise or just above the noise. Although 
the distance is not that long, (abt 4300Km ), it seems the path is only in 
"good" darkness for a short while. (It is of course summertime here with 32 
plus degrees C in the day)
I managed to work them around 00:06 UTC.Looking forward to their log update!
Raoul, ZS1C 

  From: Gary Smith 
 To: Topband@contesting.com 
 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 5:54 AM
 Subject: Re: Topband: VP8STI last night - Report from Maryland
   
Bill,

Never say never. I worked them at 02:13 last night (Thanks Roger for 
the email today saying you'd heard the contact). It was right after 
they stopped working EU and I was waiting patiently on frequency till 
I heard them CQ without the EU designator. 

The Hi-Z triangular was a saving grace for me, I would like one of 
the Hi-Z 8A variety.

Anyone have one to let go of? I'm also interested in a NCC-1; contact 
me off list if you would.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> 
> From Maryland, FM 19:
> 
> Armchair copy last nite from 2350Z until 0215Z this morning.  Some fading.
> With my headphones laying on the bench, they were Q5 solid copy while 
> I was working on other projects waiting for them to call for "NA" instead of
> "EU".
> Never happened.
> 
> I stayed & listened until 0215Z when they faded out here.
> 
> I'm using a Hi-Z 4-sq.  Azimuth heading to VP8S is 155 Deg.  4-SQ heading
> used was 134 Deg.
> 
> Bill N3RR
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ken Boasi
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 12:18 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: VP8STI last night
> 
> Just my observations from what happened here last night in NY (doesn't help
> you west coast guys, I guess). 
> 
> VP8STI was solid copy from my sunset around 2230z until 0200z. Very little
> fading and Q5 copy. They were calling and working EU only during this
> period. 
> 
> Around 0200z, their signal got much weaker and more susceptible to QSB. They
> also started calling for anyone at that time, not just EU. I don't know if
> they switched direction on their TX array or not at that point, but things
> did get worse at that point; propagation I'm assuming. 
> 
> I use two 560' beverages to receive, one at 135 degrees and one at 180
> degrees. No diversity rx, just switching back and forth. They were the same
> copy on both antennas, generally, since both are about the same amount "off"
> of STI's hearing from here (FN13, western NY). 
> 
> I didn't listen much after 0200z, so I don't know if their signal came back
> up at any point. 
> 
> They did have an excellent run of EU during that 2200-0200 time frame,
> though. 
> 
> 73, Ken N2ZN 
> 
> > On Jan 22, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Tom  wrote:
> > 
> > N6SS is located about 40 miles north west of me in AZ,, 2800 feet higher
> in elevation and a lot quieter location,,and better receiving antennas,, I
> have not heard but just traces past 2 nights,, will be there tonight,, been
> listening to the east coast guys working them,, all signals have been great
> except Vp8!! Congrats to all that have worked them and maybe tonite the
> propagation gods will shine west!!! 
> > 73's
> > Tom
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Tree 
> > Sender: "Topband" 
> > Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 06:57:33
> > To: 160
> > Subject: Topband: VP8STI last night in Oregon
> > 
> > At least in my location - I would say that things were no better last
> night.
> > 
> > N6SS in Arizona said he worked them just after 0400Z.  There was also 
> > a report that he came back to N6MB about 10 times around 0430Z - but 
> > N6MB was not hearing him.  The data suggests they are hearing better 
> > than getting out - which means if you can hear them - the spotlight is 
> > shining on you and you have a pretty good chance of making the QSO.
> > 
> > If it was easy - it wouldn't be as rewarding when it happens!!
> > 
> > Good luck to all.
> > 
> > 73 Tree N6TR
> > Hillsboro, OR

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Topband Spotlight Propagation Theorem

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

Since I am not a scientist and only a steamboat engineer of sorts 
(that's what they call someone who works at the controls in a radio 
station playing music) I offer my own version of the TB Spotlight 
theorem.  TB spotlight propagation I equate to a unique  or magic closet 
where although there may be some light need the crack near the floor for 
stations closer by when the door is shut the room is dark. Things really 
happen when the door is even partially ajar.  As the door swings in the 
breeze the paths, often more than one of them, can come and go very 
rapidly. But the door has several hinges and where one side opens the 
other side which was previous opened may slam shut. Light arrives at 
different angles and behind the hinge there is little light at all.   
These hinges can be propagation-wise from the top of the door to the 
bottom and in reverse.or side to side never illuminating the 
closet completely for everyone to bask in the bright glow of a 
"propagation"  light simultaneously. I know that this may seem foolish 
and over simplistic to some but this "spotlight" propagation is as weird 
as my  attempts to try to understand it. If you were not at one of the 
locations where the signals were refracted down to...other than checking 
what you have for best performance...it might me as good or better as 
the TBers 25-50miles away.  One thing that did appear as a valid 
conclusion is that the spotlight openings were reciprocal or enhance in 
both directions at a particular time. I say this because did not 
experience any spotlight impact from  NA stations.  In fact what was 
unusual was that rock crushing signals here were pass over for weaker 
signals here by VP8STI.  Sometimes much weaker signals n the same 
frequency got through first rather than the well endowed super stations.



Just an observation before you tear up your antenna(s) for TB and move 
to a cabin in the mountains.



Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 1/23/2016 3:13 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Fri,1/22/2016 1:08 PM, K1FZ-Bruce wrote:
Just my observations from what happened here last night in NY 
(doesn't help you west coast guys, I guess).


You guess right, although topband "spotlight" propagation scattered a 
handful of Qs west of the Rockies. Over our heads into the Pacific NW, 
and WB6RSE made it from LAX. I've still not heard a peep.


73, Jim K9YC
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI 160 Meter Path

[lmlangenf...@tds.net]

I was pleasantly surprised to hear very strong and stable sigs from VP8STI late 
Wednesday evening (0445 UT) here, genuine 569 (maybe a bit more on peaks) 
--receiving only on my modest "lazy L" w/32 radials.  Hoped for even better 
sigs at their SR, but things gradually slid after about 0500 UT, and they had 
vanished by 0520. Shortly thereafter, I worked them fairly easily (they didn't 
seem terribly busy) on 40m w/100W into a low wire. This was all rather 
startling to me because I had been hearing quite a few strong AU sigs on 6m 
only a couple of hours earlier.  That kind of disturbance usually draws the 
curtains on the low bands for awhile up here in the north country. Not so this 
time, which makes all the reports of unusual paths and hot spots all the more 
interesting.

On a collateral note:  The K5P crew's timely antenna fix made for good sigs 
here this morning.  I managed to get in their log during a nice peak at about 
local SR w/100W and the aforementioned "lazy L."  Nice way to start the day.

73,

Mark -- WA9ETW  
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Fwd: Re: VP8STI last night

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,1/22/2016 1:08 PM, K1FZ-Bruce wrote:

Just my observations from what happened here last night in NY (doesn't help you 
west coast guys, I guess).


You guess right, although topband "spotlight" propagation scattered a 
handful of Qs west of the Rockies. Over our heads into the Pacific NW, 
and WB6RSE made it from LAX. I've still not heard a peep.


73, Jim K9YC
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Topband Spotlight Propagation Theorem

[donovanf]

Hi Joel, 


My W5ZN/N4HY/W8JI passive 8-circle array really shines during 
this changeable and often spotty propagation from VP8STI. Its 
consistently significantly better than my south Beverage and 
4-square transmitting array, typically solid copy when the other 
two antennas are suffering QSB into the noise. 


My listening was cut short after I worked VP8STI during their 
first night of 160 meter operation. I had picked a random 
transmitting frequency (3 up) immediately after they stopped 
directional CQs to Europe and I nearly jumped out of my skin 
when they answered my first call. 


Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 




- Original Message -

From: "Joel Harrison"  
To: topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 8:07:10 PM 
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Spotlight Propagation Theorem 


For those who may be new to 160 (and you old dogs as well), or have not 
read his material, Carl K9LA offers some very good insight to 160 meter 
propagation, including the spotlight topic. 

k9la.us is the site, click on the 160 meter tab. 

I like to read his 160 meter prop papers just before each "season" as a 
refresher. 

73 Joel W5ZN 



www.w5zn.org 

_ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Topband Spotlight (Flashlight) Propagation

[Preston Smith]

My 2 cents, below is a slightly abbreviated/updated email I sent to
the CADXA Reflector on Friday 22Jan2016

Thursday evening his sig was inaudible here from our sunset (0046Z
in Dewey) until 0408Z/22Jan when they restarted after a ~1.5 hour
break. The sig was very weak but readable. I called 2 kHz up and
VP8 came right back, we exchanged and he was in the log. I gave
him the usual dxpedition 599. In reality the sig was to be generous
449 on peaks. I was the only caller. I listened for a few minutes
and no other stations called. The spotlight (more like a flashlight)
was briefly on Arizona. He faded in a few minutes and was never
audible again. Later he was working a minor east coast pile. Club
Log shows Ned, AA7A was the op. Thank you Ned !!! And thanks for
sending at a copiable ~22 WPM.

For this dxpedition I resurrected a 360 foot BOG to the SE that was
useless. His best sig was on the omni tx vertical but severe QRN
from storms to the east obliterated his sig. A DHDL (tnx AA7JV) to
the SE was the antenna of choice.

As long as these geomagnetic condx persist the only way to work
VP8STI is to be in the shack BIC from our sunset til their sunrise
(0520Z) with the rx on 1826.5 and hope for an opening. If ur amp
requires 3 minutes to warm up leave it on. In 3 minutes he could
be up, workable and gone.

Good luck/73

Pres, N6SS


> --
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 15:40:13 -0500 (EST)
> From: donov...@starpower.net
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Cc: w...@w5zn.org
> Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Spotlight Propagation Theorem
> Message-ID:
>   <1499908368.279207.1453581613517.javamail.r...@starpower.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi Joel,
> 
> 
> My W5ZN/N4HY/W8JI passive 8-circle array really shines during
> this changeable and often spotty propagation from VP8STI. Its
> consistently significantly better than my south Beverage and
> 4-square transmitting array, typically solid copy when the other
> two antennas are suffering QSB into the noise.
> 
> 
> My listening was cut short after I worked VP8STI during their
> first night of 160 meter operation. I had picked a random
> transmitting frequency (3 up) immediately after they stopped
> directional CQs to Europe and I nearly jumped out of my skin
> when they answered my first call.
> 
> 
> Sometimes its better to be lucky than good.
> 
> 
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL


FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and 
family!
Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Sharing "VP8STI.mp3" via Jumpshare

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

   Herbert Schoenbohm shared an audio with you. Herbert
Schoenbohm shared VP8STI.mp3

 with you.
 “I have sent a link about 45 minutes of VP8STI last
night 01/23/2016 so anyone interest can observe the propagation at my QTH
in U.S. Virgin Islands. I don't know if this will work but you should be
able to download the link and listen with any .mp3 player. Herb, KV4FZ”  
  VP8STI.mp3

   7.1 MB
 View Audio

  
Jumpshare is an incredibly fast way to share your files. *Learn more*

  © 2016 Jumpshare
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Brad Rehm]

Lee,

No one's mentioned the "Spotlight" phenomenon, which occasionally happens
on 160.  The signal comes shining down from the "upper layers" and
illuminates a very small area.  Stations lucky enough to be in the covered
spot get to work the DX.  Everyone else, well...

Can't remember where I read about this, but it would mean that your being
250 miles from the other station might place you well out of the covered
area.  You'd never hear the DX, regardless of how many antennas you had.

Brad  KV5V

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Mike Waters  wrote:

> Agreed. Thanks.
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Lee STRAHAN  wrote:
>
> > ... Bear in mind the fact that one can never have enough receiving
> > antennas at any given time. The ionosphere is a fickle beast at best.
> >
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Jim Brown]

On Sat,1/23/2016 2:07 PM, Brad Rehm wrote:

No one's mentioned the "Spotlight" phenomenon, which occasionally happens
on 160.


Huh? Did you miss mine this morning, or the half dozen replies?

73, Jim K9YC


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Mike Waters]

Agreed. Thanks.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Lee STRAHAN  wrote:

> ... Bear in mind the fact that one can never have enough receiving
> antennas at any given time. The ionosphere is a fickle beast at best.
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Yuri Blanarovich]

More in the category of ducting.
http://www.k3bu.us/propagation.htm

Yuri, K3BU.us
 
 
 On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 05:07 PM, Brad Rehm wrote:
 
 > Lee,


No one's mentioned the "Spotlight" phenomenon, which occasionally 
happens

on 160.  The signal comes shining down from the "upper layers" and
illuminates a very small area.  Stations lucky enough to be in the 
covered

spot get to work the DX.  Everyone else, well...

Can't remember where I read about this, but it would mean that your 
being
250 miles from the other station might place you well out of the 
covered
area.  You'd never hear the DX, regardless of how many antennas you 
had.


Brad  KV5V

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Mike Waters  wrote:


Agreed. Thanks.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Lee STRAHAN  wrote:


... Bear in mind the fact that one can never have enough receiving
antennas at any given time. The ionosphere is a fickle beast at 
best.



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Lee STRAHAN]

Hello again Mike, Thanks for the question,
I have had as many as 4 of the directional Hi-Z and a new undisclosed 
design experimental Low impedance element arrays running at one time for 
comparisons. Some over 1000 feet apart.
  From the plots of Eznec there is scant 1.4 dB RDF difference between the 4-8 
Pro and the superior all active 8A. Also what I have observed and have nothing 
but anecdotal evidence for is that the all active 8A seems to outplay to the 
ears what Eznec or 4NEC2 predicts using RDF alone. These NEC comparisons are at 
a 20 degree angle of incoming signal elevation. If you look at the 3D plot 
comparisons at http://www.hizantennas.com/receiving_antennacomparison_char.htm  
you will see that the side lobes put there purposely to get the RDF up in the 
8A are very very low in elevation.  I have always conjectured that this was the 
reason that the 8A would outplay the 4-8Pro Eznec comparisons  in my fields. 
Assuming that local noise and noise in general is higher  angles these low 
elevation side lobes would not pick up the high angle noise. This could be 
responsible for an observed increase over RDF performance. There are a lot of 
variables involved so it remains conjecture at this time.
  The slightly narrower forward beam of the 8A may also be responsible. When 
you start using antennas with this kind of pattern squeezing to make high RDF 
it is absolutely imperative to be at least 1000 or more feet away from power 
lines and TX antennas as it takes so little coupling to change the pattern and 
resultant RDF. This makes comparisons very difficult.
For instance, it is theoretically possible to take the same 8 element 200 
foot diameter circle and get over 15 dB of RDF with a 31 degree beamwidth, a 
horrible looking pattern, and 22 dB front to back. The absolute maximum 
directivity according to MT Ma and his book.  It takes enormous precision in 
everything involved with this design including likely impossible electronics, 
cabling, ground incontinuities and environmental differences. Not to mention 
the narrow beamwidth making the need for 16 elements in this footprint to cover 
the entire azimuth. I do not believe that you could make this antenna work 
without a mile or better separation from other objects of any kind.

Short answer, 8A is 1.4 dB RDF better by Eznec.

Bear in mind the fact that one can never have enough receiving antennas at any 
given time. The ionosphere is a fickle beast at best.

Lee  K7TJR  Central Oregon


Thanks. Assuming for a minute that it wasn't the location, how might that 
antenna have been superior?
73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Spotlights can be very small

[Steve Ireland]

G’day

It has been interesting to read about the spotlight propagation being 
experienced by USA operators chasing VP8STI.  In my experience the size of a 
spotlight can be very small – 50km or less perhaps.

Back in November 1998, just prior to the CQ WW Contest, Mike VK6HD and I were 
trying to work Kenny 6Y5/K2KW at our local sunset.  This is a very difficult 
path, due east and with only a few minutes overlap in VK6 sunset and 6Y5 
sunrise.

In those days, Mike and I lived apart 25 km apart – me in Glen Forrest and Mike 
due south of here in Bedfordale. On 22 November, Mike and I were on for our 
sunset (only a few tens of seconds apart) and Mike heard and rapidly worked 
Kenny at solid RST 559 on 160m. To my dismay, I heard absolutely nothing of 
Kenny’s signal.

The following night, I came on for sunset and was amazed to hear Kenny coming 
through at a solid 559 and we worked relatively easily, thanks to USA stations 
giving me a clear shot.  On phoning Mike ten minutes later, he said he could 
not hear a trace of Kenny’s signal that night – mirroring my experience of the 
previous night.

The Forrest Gump analogy of the box of chocolates (‘you don’t know what you’re 
gonna get’) is exactly right for 160m.  Herb’s analogy of sunlight leaking into 
a closet, how much depending on how far the door is open, also seems a pretty 
good way of explaining how the spotlight prop on 160m can work.

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ
 

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[W7RH]

Congrats to those out West that have VP8STI in the log. You guys 
certainly had the good draw and the right angle. I did work them on 80m 
using OMNI short vertical and 100W. They however were not even moving 
the S meter.


I offer my theorem on why Western US contacts are infrequent in this 
case. Using my station and beam heading to the SE I worked CE1/K7CA 
using QRP. I could do that from early darkness until his sunrise. 
considering I've worked all of south America with 100W the extra 1500 
miles should not be difficult especially being a trans equatorial QSO. 
The conditions would also have to be very disturbed with no direct polar 
region influence.


Looking at the VP8STI website they provide topographic and satellite map 
of their physical location which is located on Thule Island to provide 
safe harbor. I note to NW is Mt Larsen about 2 miles away. It rises some 
2500 ft and the terrain effectively disrupts everything below 15 degrees 
or nearly half of their vertical beam-width. This antenna is not in salt 
water and a good guess would be that it has about 30 1/4 wave plus 
radials. They have a clean shot to Europe in the far field. The NW path 
is broken by Thule Mountain and along the way is going to pass through 
the Andes Mountains. I would suggest the ground reflection element in 
this case is scattering, which also causes increased path loss. This is 
much like attenuation cause by the Rocky Mountains to Europe from 
western US. Of course this the height of the F layer is a factor as well.


Responding to an earlier post by K7TJR regarding K7ZV mountain location. 
I will take a QTH with extensive wide open flat land or slightly sloping 
down hill over a mountain top any day. The curvature of the earth and 
far field reflection is important (slight far field gain). I am not 
saying that a mountain top won't work for 160. Heck, it might be 
possible to build an antenna that is flexible on take off angle.


73

Bob

--
W7RH DM35OS

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not 
sure about the former.

Albert Einstein


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Jim Brown]

On Sat,1/23/2016 10:15 PM, Milt wrote:
73, and good night.  GL with your quest. 


And to you, Milt.  Not a dit here either. I wrote down calls of several 
dozen stations who called, mostly for brief periods. I took that to mean 
that 1) they worked them or 2) they no longer heard them. :) I heard Bob 
calling and then give them a report, then call later and give them a 
report. I heard that with several stations.


73, Jim K9YC
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Milt]

Bob,

I concur that this might be the reason that Top Band has been so difficult 
for propagation to our area.


I heard them the first night at Q4, right at our sunset.  They were working 
EU so I didn't call.  They promptly faded away, not to be heard again that 
night, or since.


I just finished nearly 6 hours under the earphones and I heard not a single 
dit the entire evening from VP8 STI.


And this evening there were some posts, including one by you, that said his 
signal was becoming discernable to the posters from out west.  Here; 
NADA


Anyway, it is fun, and the ol' lady sure has a bag of tricks.  I doubt we 
will ever know and understand all the vagaries of 160 Meter propagation.


73, and good night.  GL with your quest.

de Milt, N5IA


-Original Message- 
From: W7RH

Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:42 PM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

Congrats to those out West that have VP8STI in the log. You guys
certainly had the good draw and the right angle. I did work them on 80m
using OMNI short vertical and 100W. They however were not even moving
the S meter.

I offer my theorem on why Western US contacts are infrequent in this
case. Using my station and beam heading to the SE I worked CE1/K7CA
using QRP. I could do that from early darkness until his sunrise.
considering I've worked all of south America with 100W the extra 1500
miles should not be difficult especially being a trans equatorial QSO.
The conditions would also have to be very disturbed with no direct polar
region influence.

Looking at the VP8STI website they provide topographic and satellite map
of their physical location which is located on Thule Island to provide
safe harbor. I note to NW is Mt Larsen about 2 miles away. It rises some
2500 ft and the terrain effectively disrupts everything below 15 degrees
or nearly half of their vertical beam-width. This antenna is not in salt
water and a good guess would be that it has about 30 1/4 wave plus
radials. They have a clean shot to Europe in the far field. The NW path
is broken by Thule Mountain and along the way is going to pass through
the Andes Mountains. I would suggest the ground reflection element in
this case is scattering, which also causes increased path loss. This is
much like attenuation cause by the Rocky Mountains to Europe from
western US. Of course this the height of the F layer is a factor as well.

Responding to an earlier post by K7TJR regarding K7ZV mountain location.
I will take a QTH with extensive wide open flat land or slightly sloping
down hill over a mountain top any day. The curvature of the earth and
far field reflection is important (slight far field gain). I am not
saying that a mountain top won't work for 160. Heck, it might be
possible to build an antenna that is flexible on take off angle.

73

Bob

--
W7RH DM35OS

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not 
sure about the former.


Albert Einstein

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[bob hervatine]

Absolute zilch heard on TB tonight here at my QTH in central CA (DM06) until 
the last 30 minutes before VP8STI s/r, when I was blessed with a few random and 
brief periods (of perhaps 10 seconds or less) of 'something' bubbling just 
below my ability to copy. Last trace of anything was right at STI's s/r. 

This is slightly better than the previous evening, when I had two brief 'almost 
copy' rises.

VP8STI was near armchair copy on 80CW most of the evening when I'd go up there 
to check. Still had cpy on 80m 30 minutes after VP8STI s/r.

Rx antenna here is a K9AY loop, but I'm not convinced a BOG or above ground 
beverage would have helped that much the past two evenings.

(BTW, I am NOT the 'Bob' referred to by K9YC. I never tx-ed tonight.)

Congrats to all who DID make it tonight, and GL to those of us still hunting.

Bob N2NS
(central California DM06)

> To: topband@contesting.com
> From: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 22:45:13 -0800
> Subject: Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma
> 
> On Sat,1/23/2016 10:15 PM, Milt wrote:
> > 73, and good night.  GL with your quest. 
> 
> And to you, Milt.  Not a dit here either. I wrote down calls of several 
> dozen stations who called, mostly for brief periods. I took that to mean 
> that 1) they worked them or 2) they no longer heard them. :) I heard Bob 
> calling and then give them a report, then call later and give them a 
> report. I heard that with several stations.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
  
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Jim Brown]

On Sat,1/23/2016 11:02 PM, bob hervatine wrote:

(BTW, I am NOT the 'Bob' referred to by K9YC. I never tx-ed tonight.)


I was referring to W7RH, a good guy I met at Visalia some years ago with 
a nice remote station in the AZ desert that he can operate locally 
(usually for contests) or from his home in/near Las Vegas.


73, Jim K9YC


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband