Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Wes Stewart]

The QRP guys will be miffed.

On 3/17/2017 12:48 PM, James Wolf wrote:

If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a
reason we should not use 1000 watts?

Jim - KR9U



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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[JC]

BD0AAI  is zone 23 and likes JT modes and cw.

JC
N4IS

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James
Wolf
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 3:49 PM
To: 'List-Topband' 
Subject: Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a
reason we should not use 1000 watts?

Jim - KR9U

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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[James Wolf]

If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a
reason we should not use 1000 watts?

Jim - KR9U

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Topband: JT-modes power levels on 160

[Mike Waters]

Hello Pete,

Exactly!!!

On the higher bands, low power generally gets the job done. But digital
folks on 160 need to rethink a few things. Ideally, we should ALL just bump
our output up to 100 watts. But that's just not gonna happen.  :-)

I don't have the time right now to add more, but I hope this thread nets
some useful suggestions to minimize QRN in the 160m digital portion.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


On Mar 17, 2017 1:58 PM, "Pete Rimmel N8PR"  wrote:

I have to disagree with some of what has been said about how much power to
run using JT65.

JT65 is a LOW SIGNAL mode, NOT a LOW POWER mode.

We run 1500 watts into 20+ dB gain antennas on 2 meters for EME.  Signals
coming back from the moon vary between –10 and –29 dB

Why limit yourself on 160 meters?

When JT65 HF was just getting started on 160, I called CQ on 160 using 1
KW+ and Andre, V51B, sent me an eMail that he heard me –23, but I did not
hear him.  The difference?  He was calling me with 100 watts or less, and I
was using 1 KW+ into a full 1/4 wave vertical with 32 radials under it.
 My receive antenna is a Waller Flag which can rotate between H Pol and V
Pol.

-23 is a low signal, even though I was running close to the legal limit.
SO... What is best, to run 50 watts and work no one or run power and be
heard, even if only –23?  You tell me.
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Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

[Pete Rimmel N8PR]

I have to disagree with some of what has been said about how much power to run 
using JT65. 

JT65 is a LOW SIGNAL mode, NOT a LOW POWER mode. 

We run 1500 watts into 20+ dB gain antennas on 2 meters for EME.  Signals 
coming back from the moon vary between –10 and –29 dB

Why limit yourself on 160 meters?  

When JT65 HF was just getting started on 160, I called CQ on 160 using 1 KW+ 
and Andre, V51B, sent me an eMail that he heard me –23, but I did not hear him. 
 The difference?  He was calling me with 100 watts or less, and I was using 1 
KW+ into a full 1/4 wave vertical with 32 radials under it.   My receive 
antenna is a Waller Flag which can rotate between H Pol and V Pol.

-23 is a low signal, even though I was running close to the legal limit.  SO... 
What is best, to run 50 watts and work no one or run power and be heard, even 
if only –23?  You tell me. 

73,  PeteR  N8PR With DXCC+ on both 160 and 2 meters. (and every band in 
between except 60)
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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Mike Waters]

"Overloading everyone's RX front end" is not correct.

The problem is that these narrow digital modes are received using the full
bandwith of the SSB filter.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mar 17, 2017 1:19 PM, "Wes Stewart"  wrote:

Do you guys use lousy receivers for these modes?  Why would the mode affect
the abilities of a receiver?

Wes  N7WS

On 3/17/2017 11:06 AM, Jim Jim wrote:

> ...if you use high power you are going to start overloading everyone RX
> front end and you will be the only one able to use the band.
>

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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Wes Stewart]

Do you guys use lousy receivers for these modes?  Why would the mode affect the 
abilities of a receiver?


Wes  N7WS

On 3/17/2017 11:06 AM, Jim Jim wrote:

...if you use high power you are going to start overloading everyone RX front 
end and you will be the only one able to use the band.


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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

Hello Jim and others for the replies

Just getting information to do well and not disturb anyone.

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W



2017-03-17 15:06 GMT-03:00 Jim Jim :

> Jorge,
> I use only 35-50w on TB.  A few years ago I worked VKs and Zls  using only
> 35watts then went down the band a bit and worked one of the same stations
> on CW only moments later BUT it took over 900w to do it. That is just over
> 14db advantage over CW.  Two other things to remember 1. JT65 is a mode
> that operates at 100% duty cycle. and 2. if you use high power you are
> going to start overloading everyone RX front end and you will be the only
> one able to use the band.  I have seen one station on 40m ignored because
> he was using high power when it was unnecessary.
>
> GL
>
> Jim
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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Topband: JT65 on 160

[Jim Jim]

Jorge,
I use only 35-50w on TB.  A few years ago I worked VKs and Zls  using only 
35watts then went down the band a bit and worked one of the same stations on CW 
only moments later BUT it took over 900w to do it. That is just over 14db 
advantage over CW.  Two other things to remember 1. JT65 is a mode that 
operates at 100% duty cycle. and 2. if you use high power you are going to 
start overloading everyone RX front end and you will be the only one able to 
use the band.  I have seen one station on 40m ignored because he was using high 
power when it was unnecessary.

GL 

Jim
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Topband: Xx

[Chuck Lemken]

 Xx  c,t xz, , xx xz
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Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

[James Rodenkirch]

While watching the  waterfall for "spreading" on 160 and 80, Lee I've seen 
similar "results."

My operating "mode"now is:

160: 25 to 30 watts set wid no ALC "ficker"  
  80:  30 to 50 watts set wid no 'flicker'

Note: I run the 'mike input' control to a high enuff input I'll need to "back 
of" the alc adjust control (on the main screen, right hand side) to get the 
'power out' indicator on the KX3 power 'down to' the final output number/value 
I've settled on.

I have worked VKs and JAs on 160 and 80 with these settings.  72/73 de Jim 
Rodenkirch K9JWV



From: Topband  on behalf of KX4TT via Topband 

Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 7:05 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

I've used 100 watts on 160 - by accident, as I forgot to turn down the drive - 
I discovered that decoding can be a real problem at high power levels. I've 
seen signals from a station 30 miles  (50  km) away that wouldn't decode 
because of spreading.  I believe the main goal is to have little or no ALC 
action on your transmission; Therefore, I will run up to 50W on 160 and even 
80, but with zero ALC indication (I adjust the audio levels down to just under 
any ALC deflection).  On 40 and up, I stick to 20W most of the time 
(occasionally 30W)...JT modes are great for 160, but I 
still prefer CW, the original digital mode... -)

73 es GUD DX de Lee KX4TT





Citando Jorge Diez - CX6VM :

> Hello
>
> so how much power to use in JT65 on 160 mts for DX ?
>
> 15-25 watts in OK on high bands, but how much pwr people are using on
> 160 mts?
>
> thanks,
> Jorge
>

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Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

[Brian D G3VGZ]

Brian Pease  wrote:

> JT-65 is a QRP mode, like WSPR where I use10W.  High power can ruin it for
> everyone else.  Read the documentation.
>

It is NOT a QRP mode, it is a weak signal mode, not the same thing. On 160
often a QRO mode to give a weak signal at the other end.

I usually use 40w to an inefficient antenna on 160. If necessary I up the
power to legal maximum.


-- 
Brian D 
G3VGZ
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Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

[Brian Pease]

JT-65 is a QRP mode, like WSPR where I use10W.  High power can ruin it 
for everyone else.  Read the documentation.


On 3/17/2017 8:36 AM, Lennart m wrote:

I do not agree with you Pedro. More is not always better. Use no more than you 
need. JT65 allows more noise than does CW, thus one doesn’t need as much power.
73
Len
SM7BIC

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] För CT1EKD
Skickat: den 17 mars 2017 12:50
Till: topband@contesting.com
Ämne: Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

Hi Jorge
Hi Jorge
JT65 is no diferent from CW or SSB, more power is better...use no more than 50% 
of your amplifier power, if you have an extra fan use it on top of your 
amplifier..

Pedro - ct1ekd
  


Citando Jorge Diez - CX6VM :


Hello

so how much power to use in JT65 on 160 mts for DX ?

15-25 watts in OK on high bands, but how much pwr people are using on
160 mts?

thanks,
Jorge

2015-09-12 14:51 GMT-03:00 Jim Brown :

On Sat,9/12/2015 7:33 AM, Mike Waters wrote:

How much of this was JT9? Is it ALL JT65?

It's all JT65.

Notice all the CQs going unanswered. Except for the Ukraine station,
those EU stations all had pretty good signals at your QTH, good
enough that some of the guys in W1/W2 should have copied them if they had 
decent ears.

One of the issues with JT65 and JT9 is that many stations using it
are running QRP into wet strings, and they can't hear. A year or so
ago, I ran a sked with a guy in ND or SD running 20W or so. I copied
him just fine, but had to crank the amp to 400W to get him to hear me.

The quality of the A/D converter also matters a lot. A good outboard
sound card will decode 10-12 dB further down into the noise than the
sound cards built into most computers.

73, Jim K9YC

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--
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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http://www.contesting.com/_topband
  
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Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

[KX4TT via Topband]

I've used 100 watts on 160 - by accident, as I forgot to turn down the drive - 
I discovered that decoding can be a real problem at high power levels. I've 
seen signals from a station 30 miles  (50  km) away that wouldn't decode 
because of spreading.  I believe the main goal is to have little or no ALC 
action on your transmission; Therefore, I will run up to 50W on 160 and even 
80, but with zero ALC indication (I adjust the audio levels down to just under 
any ALC deflection).  On 40 and up, I stick to 20W most of the time 
(occasionally 30W)...JT modes are great for 160, but I 
still prefer CW, the original digital mode... -)

73 es GUD DX de Lee KX4TT





Citando Jorge Diez - CX6VM :

> Hello
>
> so how much power to use in JT65 on 160 mts for DX ?
>
> 15-25 watts in OK on high bands, but how much pwr people are using on
> 160 mts?
>
> thanks,
> Jorge
>

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

[Lennart m]

I do not agree with you Pedro. More is not always better. Use no more than you 
need. JT65 allows more noise than does CW, thus one doesn’t need as much power.
73
Len
SM7BIC

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] För CT1EKD
Skickat: den 17 mars 2017 12:50
Till: topband@contesting.com
Ämne: Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

Hi Jorge
Hi Jorge
JT65 is no diferent from CW or SSB, more power is better...use no more than 50% 
of your amplifier power, if you have an extra fan use it on top of your 
amplifier..

Pedro - ct1ekd
 

Citando Jorge Diez - CX6VM :

> Hello
>
> so how much power to use in JT65 on 160 mts for DX ?
>
> 15-25 watts in OK on high bands, but how much pwr people are using on 
> 160 mts?
>
> thanks,
> Jorge
>
> 2015-09-12 14:51 GMT-03:00 Jim Brown :
>> On Sat,9/12/2015 7:33 AM, Mike Waters wrote:
>>> How much of this was JT9? Is it ALL JT65?
>>
>> It's all JT65.
>>
>> Notice all the CQs going unanswered. Except for the Ukraine station, 
>> those EU stations all had pretty good signals at your QTH, good 
>> enough that some of the guys in W1/W2 should have copied them if they had 
>> decent ears.
>>
>> One of the issues with JT65 and JT9 is that many stations using it 
>> are running QRP into wet strings, and they can't hear. A year or so 
>> ago, I ran a sked with a guy in ND or SD running 20W or so. I copied 
>> him just fine, but had to crank the amp to 400W to get him to hear me.
>>
>> The quality of the A/D converter also matters a lot. A good outboard 
>> sound card will decode 10-12 dB further down into the noise than the 
>> sound cards built into most computers.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> --
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
> _Topband Reflector Archives - 
> http://www.contesting.com/_topband

 
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Re: Topband: Sept 12 JT65 on 1838khz...nice opening to Eu.

[CT1EKD]

Hi Jorge
Hi Jorge
JT65 is no diferent from CW or SSB, more power is better...use no more  
than 50% of your amplifier power, if you have an extra fan use it on  
top of your amplifier..


Pedro - ct1ekd
 

Citando Jorge Diez - CX6VM :


Hello

so how much power to use in JT65 on 160 mts for DX ?

15-25 watts in OK on high bands, but how much pwr people are using on 160
mts?

thanks,
Jorge

2015-09-12 14:51 GMT-03:00 Jim Brown :

On Sat,9/12/2015 7:33 AM, Mike Waters wrote:

How much of this was JT9? Is it ALL JT65?


It's all JT65.

Notice all the CQs going unanswered. Except for the Ukraine station, those
EU stations all had pretty good signals at your QTH, good enough that some
of the guys in W1/W2 should have copied them if they had decent ears.

One of the issues with JT65 and JT9 is that many stations using it are
running QRP into wet strings, and they can't hear. A year or so ago, I ran
a sked with a guy in ND or SD running 20W or so. I copied him just fine,
but had to crank the amp to 400W to get him to hear me.

The quality of the A/D converter also matters a lot. A good outboard sound
card will decode 10-12 dB further down into the noise than the sound cards
built into most computers.

73, Jim K9YC

_
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--
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
_Topband Reflector Archives -  
http://www.contesting.com/_topband


 
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