Re: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

[daraymond]

I've had a full size four square on 160 for about 15 years.  I still always 
put up Beverages.  They heard well but usually did not out perform the TX 
array.  That said, they hear "differently" as one might expect.  Several 
years ago I put up a Hi-Z 8 circle array optimized for 160.  That was the 
end of the Beverages as they did not perform as well (they were only about 
600' although I did have an end-fire Bev array but the 8 circle still out 
performed it).  That said, having had the 8 circle array for six of seven 
years, it only "out hears" the four square maybe 20% of the time.  That 
said, it is helpful to have it in diversity with the TX array.  Having 
really high RDF RX antennas is not that significant of a benefit here as I 
have low noise levels (although they continue to creep up with distant new 
housing, various digital junk, etc.).


YMMV. . .73. . .Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Dietz

Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 1:26 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

I was always told that, if one had a 4 square, there would be no need for a
receive array. I am finding this to be untrue when looking at the list of
RDFs. (Receive Directivity Factor) I have snooped through the archives
reading about RDF.
Can anyone verify this from actual experience?  Can you actually hear stuff
on an 8 Circle that can't be heard on the transmit 4 square? I would think
the difference might be more than marginal with the difference in RDFs of
2.48 db.  I'm not sure of the difference in takeoff angles. That could be
important too.
As a practical matter, the 8 Circle  is huge and expensive for a single
band antenna...

Chuck W5PR
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com 


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

[donovanf]

To add to Dennis' comments: you can never have too many antennas 
(very important exception: unless they interfere with each other). 


Very large arrays such as 8 circle arrays form their deep nulls in the 
far field which may be many hundreds of yards away from the array. 
Very large arrays are not as effective for suppressing very close RFI sources., 
they're fantastic for more distant RFI sources and especially for 
ionospherically propagated interference of all kinds. 


Small receiving antennas such as the K9AY or SAL may be more 
effective for suppressing nearby RFI. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 




- Original Message -

From: "Dennis"  
To: topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 6:43:20 PM 
Subject: Re: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array 

Chuck 

Having used both at a number of stations, I can speak with some 
experience here. 

The biggest virtue I have found of an 8 Circle array is the ability to 
put a bothersome 
station or noise in a null. Most of the time, you can hear a station in 
the 4-square beamed 
direction as well on the 4-square as on the 8 Circle. You might even be 
able to put 
a bothersome station or noise in a null with the 4-square, but now he 
doesn't hear you either. 
The 8 Circle allows you to steer the null and maybe find a spot where 
the SNR is better, 
and I've found both as valuable as the direction of maximum gain. 

So, yes, you can hear things on an 8 Circle that you might not hear on a 
4-square, but to 
me its more a question of nulls (of both other signals and noise) rather 
than a stronger 
signal. 

Dennis W1UE 

On 10/16/2017 2:26 PM, Chuck Dietz wrote: 
> I was always told that, if one had a 4 square, there would be no need for a 
> receive array. I am finding this to be untrue when looking at the list of 
> RDFs. (Receive Directivity Factor) I have snooped through the archives 
> reading about RDF. 
> Can anyone verify this from actual experience? Can you actually hear stuff 
> on an 8 Circle that can't be heard on the transmit 4 square? I would think 
> the difference might be more than marginal with the difference in RDFs of 
> 2.48 db. I'm not sure of the difference in takeoff angles. That could be 
> important too. 
> As a practical matter, the 8 Circle is huge and expensive for a single 
> band antenna... 
> 
> Chuck W5PR 
> _ 
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

I might suggest some flags or pennants as receiving antenna alternatives 
with a broader beamwidth.  Easy to throw up.  I used one for all 
receiving in V3M lowbands and high bands and was impressed.


W0MU


On 10/16/2017 2:28 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Chuck,


I have both a full size transmitting 4-square and a W8JI BSEF
8-circle array using 25 foot low impedance passive umbrella
verticals. There are no active electronics in the W8JI's BSEF
8-circle array, unlike the Hi-Z array.


While the transmitting array is an excellent receiving antenna,
I can verify that the 8-circle is superior in some situations
apparently because of its much narrower beamwidth. I'm sure
the Hi-Z array would provide similarly excellent performance.
I have completed QSOs with very weak DX stations that could
not have been completed with the 4-square or my Beverages.


For a contester its very important to have an alternative antenna to
the 8-circle array. Its 3 dB beamwidth is so narrow (about 45
degrees) that you won't hear some off-azimuth callers. Normally
I use the Beverages for receiving and switch to the 8-circle array
only when needed.


73
Frank
W3LPL






- Original Message -

From: "Chuck Dietz" 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 6:26:41 PM
Subject: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

I was always told that, if one had a 4 square, there would be no need for a
receive array. I am finding this to be untrue when looking at the list of
RDFs. (Receive Directivity Factor) I have snooped through the archives
reading about RDF.
Can anyone verify this from actual experience? Can you actually hear stuff
on an 8 Circle that can't be heard on the transmit 4 square? I would think
the difference might be more than marginal with the difference in RDFs of
2.48 db. I'm not sure of the difference in takeoff angles. That could be
important too.
As a practical matter, the 8 Circle is huge and expensive for a single
band antenna...

Chuck W5PR
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

[Mike Waters]

If you browse back through the Topband archives, you'll see a common
thread: "You can never have too many RX antennas!".

Incoming angles vary. Sometimes a Beverage is best, other times it's a
certain phased vertical array, and once in a great while it's the TX
antenna or even a dipole.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

[donovanf]

Hi Chuck, 


I have both a full size transmitting 4-square and a W8JI BSEF 
8-circle array using 25 foot low impedance passive umbrella 
verticals. There are no active electronics in the W8JI's BSEF 
8-circle array, unlike the Hi-Z array. 


While the transmitting array is an excellent receiving antenna, 
I can verify that the 8-circle is superior in some situations 
apparently because of its much narrower beamwidth. I'm sure 
the Hi-Z array would provide similarly excellent performance. 
I have completed QSOs with very weak DX stations that could 
not have been completed with the 4-square or my Beverages. 


For a contester its very important to have an alternative antenna to 
the 8-circle array. Its 3 dB beamwidth is so narrow (about 45 
degrees) that you won't hear some off-azimuth callers. Normally 
I use the Beverages for receiving and switch to the 8-circle array 
only when needed. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 






- Original Message -

From: "Chuck Dietz"  
To: topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 6:26:41 PM 
Subject: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array 

I was always told that, if one had a 4 square, there would be no need for a 
receive array. I am finding this to be untrue when looking at the list of 
RDFs. (Receive Directivity Factor) I have snooped through the archives 
reading about RDF. 
Can anyone verify this from actual experience? Can you actually hear stuff 
on an 8 Circle that can't be heard on the transmit 4 square? I would think 
the difference might be more than marginal with the difference in RDFs of 
2.48 db. I'm not sure of the difference in takeoff angles. That could be 
important too. 
As a practical matter, the 8 Circle is huge and expensive for a single 
band antenna... 

Chuck W5PR 
_ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

[Gary Smith]

Chuck,

I don't have the experience with both that 
Dennis has but I have had the same 
beneficial results with the HI-Z 4-8Pro Rx 
antenna which I'm using 8 active short 
antennas. Sometimes I can null another 
station almost totally out of the picture. 
There's not that much gain compared to the 
sloper but the S/N is far better on the 
HI-Z. I consider it essential. 

I understand you're talking about Tx as 
well but I wanted to share my similar Rx 
results as Dennis has had.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Chuck
> 
> Having used both at a number of stations, I can speak with some 
> experience here.
> 
> The biggest virtue I have found of an 8 Circle array is the ability to
> put a bothersome station or noise in a null.  Most of the time, you
> can hear a station in the 4-square beamed direction as well on the
> 4-square as on the 8 Circle.  You might even be able to put a
> bothersome station or noise in a null with the 4-square, but now he
> doesn't hear you either. The 8 Circle allows you to steer the null and
> maybe find a spot where the SNR is better, and I've found both as
> valuable as the direction of maximum gain.
> 
> So, yes, you can hear things on an 8 Circle that you might not hear on
> a 4-square, but to me its more a question of nulls (of both other
> signals and noise) rather than a stronger signal.
> 
> Dennis W1UE
> 
> On 10/16/2017 2:26 PM, Chuck Dietz wrote:
> > I was always told that, if one had a 4 square, there would be no
> > need for a receive array. I am finding this to be untrue when
> > looking at the list of RDFs. (Receive Directivity Factor) I have
> > snooped through the archives reading about RDF. Can anyone verify
> > this from actual experience?  Can you actually hear stuff on an 8
> > Circle that can't be heard on the transmit 4 square? I would think
> > the difference might be more than marginal with the difference in
> > RDFs of 2.48 db.  I'm not sure of the difference in takeoff angles.
> > That could be important too. As a practical matter, the 8 Circle  is
> > huge and expensive for a single band antenna...
> >
> > Chuck W5PR

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

[Dennis]

Chuck

Having used both at a number of stations, I can speak with some 
experience here.


The biggest virtue I have found of an 8 Circle array is the ability to 
put a bothersome
station or noise in a null.  Most of the time, you can hear a station in 
the 4-square beamed
direction as well on the 4-square as on the 8 Circle.  You might even be 
able to put
a bothersome station or noise in a null with the 4-square, but now he 
doesn't hear you either.
The 8 Circle allows you to steer the null and maybe find a spot where 
the SNR is better,

and I've found both as valuable as the direction of maximum gain.

So, yes, you can hear things on an 8 Circle that you might not hear on a 
4-square, but to
me its more a question of nulls (of both other signals and noise) rather 
than a stronger

signal.

Dennis W1UE

On 10/16/2017 2:26 PM, Chuck Dietz wrote:

I was always told that, if one had a 4 square, there would be no need for a
receive array. I am finding this to be untrue when looking at the list of
RDFs. (Receive Directivity Factor) I have snooped through the archives
reading about RDF.
Can anyone verify this from actual experience?  Can you actually hear stuff
on an 8 Circle that can't be heard on the transmit 4 square? I would think
the difference might be more than marginal with the difference in RDFs of
2.48 db.  I'm not sure of the difference in takeoff angles. That could be
important too.
As a practical matter, the 8 Circle  is huge and expensive for a single
band antenna...

Chuck W5PR
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: RDF for Transmit 4 Square vs 8 Circle Array

[Chuck Dietz]

I was always told that, if one had a 4 square, there would be no need for a
receive array. I am finding this to be untrue when looking at the list of
RDFs. (Receive Directivity Factor) I have snooped through the archives
reading about RDF.
Can anyone verify this from actual experience?  Can you actually hear stuff
on an 8 Circle that can't be heard on the transmit 4 square? I would think
the difference might be more than marginal with the difference in RDFs of
2.48 db.  I'm not sure of the difference in takeoff angles. That could be
important too.
As a practical matter, the 8 Circle  is huge and expensive for a single
band antenna...

Chuck W5PR
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Ham Hicks]

Yes, I agree. It's supposed to be fun. Let the broadcasters be the ones to
get upset about reception and propagation.
73s
Ham  KB4BR

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Claerbout
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 12:11 PM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: TZ4AM

I thought 160 Meters was the Gentleman's band?  Some of you need to take a
deep breath and relax.  Surely you have more important things in your lives?

Jeff knows he has an RX problem and he's working on it.  What more can he
do?  Topband is difficult and frustrating from many locations.  A little
understanding and encouragement goes a long way.   

73
Ken K4ZW
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Rich C]

Well said Ken!

Rich K7ZV

On Mon, October 16, 2017 9:11 am, Ken Claerbout wrote:
> I thought 160 Meters was the Gentleman's band?  Some of you need to take
> a deep breath and relax.  Surely you have more important things in your
> lives?
>
> Jeff knows he has an RX problem and he's working on it.  What more can he
> do?  Topband is difficult and frustrating from many locations.  A little
> understanding and encouragement goes a long way.
>
> 73
> Ken K4ZW
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: TZ4AM

[Ken Claerbout]

I thought 160 Meters was the Gentleman's band?  Some of you need to take a deep 
breath and relax.  Surely you have more important things in your lives?

Jeff knows he has an RX problem and he's working on it.  What more can he do?  
Topband is difficult and frustrating from many locations.  A little 
understanding and encouragement goes a long way.   

73
Ken K4ZW
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[daraymond]

I had no trouble working Jeff from the very interior of North America. . 
.Iowa. 73. . . Dave, W0FLS


-Original Message- 
From: Dan Edward Dba East edwards

Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 10:33 AM
To: Victor Goncharsky ; Stein-Roar Brobakken
Cc: Raoul Coetzee ; Saulius Zalnerauskas ; Topband ; Don Kirk ; K1FZ-Bruce
Subject: Re: Topband: TZ4AM

wait a minute. I think Jeff can hear ok.  He heard MY puny signal on 
160m...it was not easy, but it IS possible without 10kw..

73, good luck, w5xz, dan


   On Monday, October 16, 2017 10:29 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband 
 wrote:



HI Stein,
What my good old friend Saulius wants to say is that there's no chance to 
work TZ4AM from here in Central Europe unless one has 10 kW and at least 
full size vertical. I'm personally not paying attention to both RBN and 
cluster 160m TZ4AM spots anymore.
On the other hand, we have worked Jeff on other bands including 6 meters 
without any problem.


Talking about Africa, since 2013, when I came back to 160m, the following 
countries from that area have been easily worked:
3X, 5N, 5T, 5U, 5V, 6W, 9G, S0, TU, XT2 so African noise is not a major 
factor.

Finally, the skip can not be "wrong" day by day and month by month.
Occam's razor cuts this assumption off.
Понедельник, 16 октября 2017, 13:46 UTC от Stein-Roar Brobakken 
:


Hi
LY5W, Try go to africa and join the QRN!

I been in africa twice on dxped, also in pacific.

Not all spots had less than S8-s9+20 dbs noise level from time to time.

I also operated 160m and experienced signals «skipping» over a distance.. 
so he migth have wrong skip!!



Best Regards,
Stein-Roar Brobakken
LB3RE K3RAG



16. okt. 2017 kl. 15:16 skrev Don Kirk < wd8...@gmail.com >:

Hi Sam (LY5W),

Check out the QRZ page for TZ4AM for info on equipment (including 
antennas).


Don (wd8dsb)

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Saulius Zalnerauskas < 
ly5w@gmail.com >

wrote:


They think what I am wrong. But true - TZ4AM no copy 99% stations.
Wonder what trcvr he is using and other RX ?

Sam LY5W

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Victor Goncharsky < us...@bk.ru > 
wrote:





_
Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband





--
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com 


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Dan Edward Dba East edwards]

wait a minute. I think Jeff can hear ok.  He heard MY puny signal on 160m...it 
was not easy, but it IS possible without 10kw..
73, good luck, w5xz, dan
 

On Monday, October 16, 2017 10:29 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband 
 wrote:
 

 HI Stein,
What my good old friend Saulius wants to say is that there's no chance to work 
TZ4AM from here in Central Europe unless one has 10 kW and at least full size 
vertical. I'm personally not paying attention to both RBN and cluster 160m 
TZ4AM spots anymore. 
On the other hand, we have worked Jeff on other bands including 6 meters 
without any problem.

Talking about Africa, since 2013, when I came back to 160m, the following 
countries from that area have been easily worked:
3X, 5N, 5T, 5U, 5V, 6W, 9G, S0, TU, XT2 so African noise is not a major factor.
Finally, the skip can not be "wrong" day by day and month by month.
Occam's razor cuts this assumption off.
>Понедельник, 16 октября 2017, 13:46 UTC от Stein-Roar Brobakken 
>:
>
>Hi
>LY5W, Try go to africa and join the QRN! 
>
>I been in africa twice on dxped, also in pacific.
>
>Not all spots had less than S8-s9+20 dbs noise level from time to time.
>
>I also operated 160m and experienced signals «skipping» over a distance.. so 
>he migth have wrong skip!!
>
>
>Best Regards,
>Stein-Roar Brobakken
>LB3RE K3RAG
>
> 
>> 16. okt. 2017 kl. 15:16 skrev Don Kirk < wd8...@gmail.com >:
>> 
>> Hi Sam (LY5W),
>> 
>> Check out the QRZ page for TZ4AM for info on equipment (including antennas).
>> 
>> Don (wd8dsb)
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Saulius Zalnerauskas < ly5w@gmail.com >
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> They think what I am wrong. But true - TZ4AM no copy 99% stations.
>>> Wonder what trcvr he is using and other RX ?
>>> 
>>> Sam LY5W
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Victor Goncharsky < us...@bk.ru > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

   
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Victor Goncharsky via Topband]

HI Stein,
What my good old friend Saulius wants to say is that there's no chance to work 
TZ4AM from here in Central Europe unless one has 10 kW and at least full size 
vertical. I'm personally not paying attention to both RBN and cluster 160m 
TZ4AM spots anymore. 
On the other hand, we have worked Jeff on other bands including 6 meters 
without any problem.

Talking about Africa, since 2013, when I came back to 160m, the following 
countries from that area have been easily worked:
3X, 5N, 5T, 5U, 5V, 6W, 9G, S0, TU, XT2 so African noise is not a major factor.
Finally, the skip can not be "wrong" day by day and month by month.
Occam's razor cuts this assumption off.
>Понедельник, 16 октября 2017, 13:46 UTC от Stein-Roar Brobakken 
>:
>
>Hi
>LY5W, Try go to africa and join the QRN! 
>
>I been in africa twice on dxped, also in pacific.
>
>Not all spots had less than S8-s9+20 dbs noise level from time to time.
>
>I also operated 160m and experienced signals «skipping» over a distance.. so 
>he migth have wrong skip!!
>
>
>Best Regards,
>Stein-Roar Brobakken
>LB3RE K3RAG
>
> 
>> 16. okt. 2017 kl. 15:16 skrev Don Kirk < wd8...@gmail.com >:
>> 
>> Hi Sam (LY5W),
>> 
>> Check out the QRZ page for TZ4AM for info on equipment (including antennas).
>> 
>> Don (wd8dsb)
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Saulius Zalnerauskas < ly5w@gmail.com >
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> They think what I am wrong. But true - TZ4AM no copy 99% stations.
>>> Wonder what trcvr he is using and other RX ?
>>> 
>>> Sam LY5W
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Victor Goncharsky < us...@bk.ru > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Saulius Zalnerauskas]

Thanks, I will.

2017-10-16 04:45 popiet "Stein-Roar Brobakken"  rašė:

> Hi
> LY5W, Try go to africa and join the QRN!
>
> I been in africa twice on dxped, also in pacific.
>
> Not all spots had less than S8-s9+20 dbs noise level from time to time.
>
> I also operated 160m and experienced signals «skipping» over a distance..
> so he migth have wrong skip!!
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Stein-Roar Brobakken
> LB3RE K3RAG
>
>
> > 16. okt. 2017 kl. 15:16 skrev Don Kirk :
> >
> > Hi Sam (LY5W),
> >
> > Check out the QRZ page for TZ4AM for info on equipment (including
> antennas).
> >
> > Don (wd8dsb)
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Saulius Zalnerauskas <
> ly5w@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> They think what I am wrong. But true - TZ4AM no copy 99% stations.
> >> Wonder what trcvr he is using and other RX ?
> >>
> >> Sam LY5W
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Victor Goncharsky 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Stein-Roar Brobakken]

Hi
LY5W, Try go to africa and join the QRN! 

I been in africa twice on dxped, also in pacific.

Not all spots had less than S8-s9+20 dbs noise level from time to time.

I also operated 160m and experienced signals «skipping» over a distance.. so he 
migth have wrong skip!!


Best Regards,
Stein-Roar Brobakken
LB3RE K3RAG

 
> 16. okt. 2017 kl. 15:16 skrev Don Kirk :
> 
> Hi Sam (LY5W),
> 
> Check out the QRZ page for TZ4AM for info on equipment (including antennas).
> 
> Don (wd8dsb)
> 
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Saulius Zalnerauskas 
> wrote:
> 
>> They think what I am wrong. But true - TZ4AM no copy 99% stations.
>> Wonder what trcvr he is using and other RX ?
>> 
>> Sam LY5W
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Victor Goncharsky  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Don Kirk]

Hi Sam (LY5W),

Check out the QRZ page for TZ4AM for info on equipment (including antennas).

Don (wd8dsb)

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Saulius Zalnerauskas 
wrote:

> They think what I am wrong. But true - TZ4AM no copy 99% stations.
> Wonder what trcvr he is using and other RX ?
>
> Sam LY5W
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Victor Goncharsky  wrote:
>
>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Saulius Zalnerauskas]

They think what I am wrong. But true - TZ4AM no copy 99% stations.
Wonder what trcvr he is using and other RX ?

Sam LY5W

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Victor Goncharsky  wrote:

> Raoul,
> Tonight there was the usual TZ4AM's multi CQ with no response. Made a few
> calls as need TZ on top but no answer. At the moment running 900w and 27.5m
> top hat vertical so barefoot/dipole is not the case here.
> Never had problems working that part of Africa, the only one missed last
> year was TY2AC (we were out of the country at that time) but Nickolas has
> promised to show up on 160 this season.
> So the quesion is - how much power do I need to work Jeff? Will 5K be
> enough?
>
> Воскресенье, 15 октября 2017, 6:34 UTC от Raoul Coetzee via Topband <
> topband@contesting.com>:
>
> I agree! And not everybody have space for good RX antennas.And even if we
> can install a good RX antenna in limited space, cheap Chinese products are
> making it worse, it  is a struggle to hear anything.
> The other problem is, I use at least 600 watts on 160m, and some EUs try
> to work you with a 100 watts and a dipole,and then call you deaf if you
> cannot hear them. Some do not understand 160m at all.
> Regards,Raoul ZS1C
>
>
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2017, 3:07:12 AM GMT+2, K1FZ-Bruce <
> k...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
>
>
> Africa is a high noise location.  Jeff is working on his antennas,
> Meanwhile  giving as many  contacts as he can copy.
> As his receive antennas improve,  hope you  find yourself in his log.
> 73
> Bruce-k1fz
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:23:54 +0300, Saulius Zalnerauskas  wrote:
>
> But no copy as always.
> RX problems
>
> LY5W
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 8:33 PM, K1FZ-Bruce  wrote:
>
> > Jeff, TZ4AM hopes to be on  160 meters tonight around 0300 UTC.He
> > likes~  1826.5, 1827.5 and usually  operates split.
> >
> > Band Conditions are not good but hope for an improvement.
> >
> >
> > 73
> > Bruce-k1fz
> > .
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
> --
> 73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
> UARL Technical and VHF Committies
> DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
> DXCC card checker (160 meters).
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Victor Goncharsky via Topband]

Raoul,
Tonight there was the usual TZ4AM's multi CQ with no response. Made a few calls 
as need TZ on top but no answer. At the moment running 900w and 27.5m top hat 
vertical so barefoot/dipole is not the case here. 
Never had problems working that part of Africa, the only one missed last year 
was TY2AC (we were out of the country at that time) but Nickolas has promised 
to show up on 160 this season.   
So the quesion is - how much power do I need to work Jeff? Will 5K be enough?

>Воскресенье, 15 октября 2017, 6:34 UTC от Raoul Coetzee via Topband 
>:
>
>I agree! And not everybody have space for good RX antennas.And even if we can 
>install a good RX antenna in limited space, cheap Chinese products are making 
>it worse, it  is a struggle to hear anything.
>The other problem is, I use at least 600 watts on 160m, and some EUs try to 
>work you with a 100 watts and a dipole,and then call you deaf if you cannot 
>hear them. Some do not understand 160m at all.
>Regards,Raoul ZS1C
>
>
>On Saturday, October 14, 2017, 3:07:12 AM GMT+2, K1FZ-Bruce < 
>k...@myfairpoint.net > wrote: 
> 
> 
>Africa is a high noise location.  Jeff is working on his antennas,
>Meanwhile  giving as many  contacts as he can copy.
>As his receive antennas improve,  hope you  find yourself in his log.
>73
>Bruce-k1fz
> 
>
>
>
>On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:23:54 +0300, Saulius Zalnerauskas  wrote:
>
>But no copy as always.
>RX problems
>
>LY5W
>
>On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 8:33 PM, K1FZ-Bruce  wrote:
>
>> Jeff, TZ4AM hopes to be on  160 meters tonight around 0300 UTC.        He
>> likes    ~  1826.5, 1827.5 and usually  operates split.
>>
>> Band Conditions are not good but hope for an improvement.
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Bruce-k1fz
>> .
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>  
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband


-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband