Topband: missed EA1EJ

[John Randall via Topband]

Last night I missed a QSO with EA1EJ on 1.850 due to qsb. We tried for a couple 
of minutes but had to give it up, hopefully he will be on again this evening. I 
had the preamp on even switched to the flex 3000 for more noise controlbutI 
do call most mornings when I get up around 07h00z  onwards till around 0800z 
with nothing heard.Anyway, its all about having fun and increasing that 
learning curve.
73John - M0ELS
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: ARRL 160 CW last weekend

[Rune Øye]

Hi All,

I am just curios on how Nort America Top banders experienced the condition
this last weekend. I was participating a little the last night and I can
say I have never heard as any NA station in one go before.Yes you have the
“Big guns” that always lets my S meter “dance” however, many other stations
that came through kind of marginal but with some effort and on a qsb peak
the qso was made. I was particularly active the last night and I mad about
130 + QSO`s. How was the signal strength the other way?.



73 Rune LA7THA
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Topband: Stew Perry TopBand Challenge #22

[Lew Sayre]

Greetings 160M Protagonists, Pip Squeaks, Posers and Curious Onlookers,
 Dec 30/31 is rapidly approaching. Drive on over to:
  http://www.kkn.net/stew/ and read why the date is important. While
there
peruse the rules pertaining to The Stew Perry TopBand Challenge instigated
by The Boring Amateur Radio Club. Consider sponsoring a plaque honoring
a facet of radio operating that strikes a major chord with you.  The cost
is $65
and the fame is forever as your call is on the plaque also. The Radio
Stalwarts who have already sprung for this years plaques are listed below.
You can join them by emailing me for further information.


KL7RA Top # QSOs, S/O
EI2CN  W/K/N/VE/XE station with most Qs with EI/British Isles
W2GD Team- Top # Qs, NA/SA by a EU station
N9TF Top # Grid Squares, QRP,S/O,NA with non-resonant antenna
   < 40' above the ground
WQ4RP  Top Score Multi-Op, QRP, World

K2AV  "Master of the Small Lot" Top score from property
   containing  antennas < 1/3 acre or 1,350 Meters Sq,
or 14,520
   feet sq.
N9TF  Top Score US/SO/LP, multi band vertical-no trap/load or
resonator- tuner at Rig only
W9XR  "W3GH Memorial"  Top Score FN Grid Block
VK6VZ Top Score-Northern Hemisphere Station working Southern
 Hemisphere Stations- Winner receives Flying
 Doctors of VK baseball hat.
K7FLTop Score 100% Search & Pounce
K2PO   Top Score, S/O, Low Power, Zone 3
KH6LC VK-ZL Challenge- Top Score, S/O, VK-ZL
KR2Q   Golden Log Plaque- Most QSOs without a bust
Dr. Beldar L1AR   Top Score, S/O, Using Temporary Antenna erected on or
 after Dec. 3, 2017- because as we all know- Some
 temporary  antennas will outlive their SK owners!
WA8WZG Top Score, Low Power, 6 character call sign
W7RH   Top Score, Low Power Asia
N2KW   "Speed Demon"- Most QSOs during error free 1 hour period

 The Boring Amateur Radio Club hopes that you have been being very busy
attending to the list of December chores so that you may freely operate
during
the listed time slot. We would suggest that instead of coming home from a
full
day of activities, eating dinner then falling asleep that you would discuss
with
your loved ones just what the perfect plaque might be for you to sponsor for
the 2017 edition of The Stew Perry TopBand Challenge. All 2016 plaques
have now been sent out to the skilled operators who conquered their unique
category. If you won a 2016 plaque and have not received it within a week,
then notify InterPol and then The Boring Amateur Radio Club as clearly a
ring of smart skulduggery savants have stolen your work of art!
 Steel yourselves, as there will be more announcements in the near
future
for this DX Challenge as conditions necessitate.
This Contest is fun!
73 and I remain,
   Lew w7ew
The Boring Amateur Radio Club Committee on Awareness and Cognition
 w...@arrl.net
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: FT-8 question

[Clive GM3POI]

My plan is to add four active verticals each feeding back to my house. They
will be spaced over the entire 7 acres I have here. My hope is I can pick
the vertical that carries the highest noise content and then cancel that
noise from my various RX antennas.  If I find I have an existing RX antenna
that is aiming at a noise source then I may use that as well. The days of
trying to deal with noise sources is near over.
73 Clive GM3POI

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Grant
Saviers
Sent: 03 December 2017 04:14
To: Jim Thomson; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: FT-8 question

Hi Jim,

Well, yes on the 5 acres, but still suburban.  But, I do notice that FT8 on
the vertical 160 T often decodes as well as my DXE 4 sq receive which has
directivity and thus less noise.  Same comment from another op here locally.
I don't see any advantage to subsegment filtering, and in fact I think a
wide bandwidth DSP/IF will have less phase distortion.  That's what the FT8
"manual" says also.  I run "wide open" 3 KHz on my Pro3 and don't see any
problems other than AGC pumping and desense from locals. 
(its hard to turn on/off AGC completely).  I checked out 160 tonight with
the cw contest on, FT8 decoded most of the FT8 signals even with CW all over
the FT8 "segment".  (let's not revisit THAT!!)  Listening on your 80m dipole
will probably help, it did for me at another QTH. Then 
there is all the advice from N4IS.   It is also fascinating to watch the 
FT8 decoder pretty much ignore the woodpecker on 80m when I work 80m AM
greyline into Asia from here (Seattle).

Grant KZ1W

On 12/2/2017 9:07 AM, Jim Thomson wrote:
> Folks on FT-8 use a 2.5 khz  ssb wide RX  filter.FT-8 is supposed to
be good for 20 db  below the noise floor.
> I assume that means 20 db below the noise floor of the 2.5 khz RX filter ?
>
> But a 250 hz cw filter would drop the noise floor by 10 db... vs the 2.5
khz wider filter... if CW mode used.
>
> So  if Im reading this correctly,  FT-8 mode, using a 2.5 khz filteris
really only 10 db better than a 250 hz cw filter, using cw mode ?
>
> If that is the case,  being able to copy signals 10 db  weaker than the
noise floor of a  250 hz filter is still nothing to sneeze at.
>
> The issue I see with FT-8.. on any band is the requirement for a  2.5 khz
filter and possibly being prone to qrm.
>
> Right now, my issue is extreme high noise levels on 160m... on a 100 by
130 city lot.Point a semi directional RX ant in the desired
direction and its
> also pointed at a noise source.  Seems like I am surrounded by noise on
160m.   Im going to drag out by noise canceller and try some more rx
experiments,
> b4 I throw in the towel.FT-8 might just be an option for folks like
myself that are plagued with high levels of noise.   Another possible option
might be
> the use of real time  remote RX.   Another possible option might be using
my 80m rotary dipole for 160m RX.   As is, its infuriating listening to high
noise
> levels on 160m.   If I cant hear on 160m...except for the usual louder
stations,  Im not going to even try TX.
>
> I have tried using a pair of  500 hz filters, and also a pair of 250 hz
filters, and also a 125 + 250 combo, in both my MK-V..and also 1000-D.
> The MK-V also has a 240-120-60hz  dsp filter.  The 1000-D has a tunable
audio cw filter.   The problem with the narrow xtal filters is...
> with noise levels so high, the noise...  rings out the filters.   The
signals coming out of  each filter... get stretched a bit in time duration.
> What Im left with is this mess whereby the desired signals +  noise end up
all mashed together.  Typ noise on 160m, using a 2.4 filter
> is S9 to S9 + 10 db.   Right now, Im trying to evaluate if 160m is even
worth the effort required.   Are the  rest of you on 5 acres out in the
woods ?
>
> Jim   VE7RF
>
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

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Re: Topband: ARRL 160

[MR TREVOR DUNNE]

Running 1kw to a 55ft top loaded vertical over a decent radial field I found 
many many stations that I could hear quiet well that could not hear me, it's 
very disheartening,

Is it my system or there's that's not working.

I'm already planning improvements for next year to try to improve my tx 
performance,

Trevor
EI2GLB 

- Original Message -
From: Gary Smith 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 21:25:26 - (GMT)
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160

This is the first major contest that I 
have taken part in a while, at least to 
the extent I actually put a real effort 
into it. Its taken a bit to get back in 
the game after my friend Pat became a SK 
this year. That said, I almost matched my 
score from two years ago when the band 
conditions were for me, far better for DX 
than this weekend.

I was running QRP with a less than ideal 
antenna yet still managed 535 QSOs. It was 
frustrating to hear so much DX and not be 
able to have them hear me. I'm guessing I 
must've heard at least 15 countries that I 
didn't work. When running QRP on 160, you 
have to go for low hanging fruit. I'm sure 
it's the same for everyone.

I was grateful that there weren't any 
storms happening locally this time and for 
the most part bands were pretty quiet. 
AMTRAK had its way with me at the Gray 
lines what with commuter trains running at 
that time but being a weekend made their 
schedule a little easier.

One of the surprises was when K7RAT called 
me Sunday Morning so at least my QRP 
signals were getting up to Boring, Oregon. 
The band must've been good because his 
signals were truly marvelous here as well, 
one of the loudest & cleanest signals on 
the band and he heard me with no trouble. 
If that was you at the helm, thank you 
Tree for the multiplier!

Sunday morning at Gray line was really 
something beautiful to see on the P3. 1/2 
hour before there may have been 50-70 
people CQing and then the waterfall became 
a Kaleidoscope with the band packed with 
people as tight as sardines up to 1875 or 
so. It's obvious when the band changes and 
the atmospheric noise is visualized as 
color in motion, in two dimensions. If you 
haven't seen the morning Gray line on a 
waterfall during a 160 contest, you're 
missing something interesting.

Hope all had fun.

73,

Gary
KA1J
_
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Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

[Tim Duffy]

Correction

There is five hundred - 500 - feet between the two HIZ arrays here at K3LR.
Not 5000.

73
Tim K3LR

-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 5:13 PM
To: k...@k3lr.com; ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Tnx Tim for the info. I see a new toy being added to the Xmas list.
N2TK, Tony 

-Original Message-
From: Tim Duffy [mailto:k...@k3lr.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 4:16 PM
To: 'N2TK, Tony' ; ko...@yahoo.com;
topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hello Tony

I use various antennas - to phase combine together with the DXE NCC.

For example, my favorite combination is on NCC Channel A with the three
element vertical Yagi and NCC Channel B is the HIZ 8 circle in phase with
the HIZ 4 square (5000 ft between them broadside on Europe). I also feed the
TopBeam Horizontal Waller Flag (at 160 feet) into the B receiver of the
IC-7851 (diversity). Sometimes I will use the pair of DX Loops (optimized
Flags) on NCC Channel A.

I use the NCC to phase combine antennas for increased receiving performance
to a target area (like Europe). The received noise is reduced due to the NCC
combining the antennas for maximum gain off the front of the combined
pattern. It is simple to get maximum peak performance using the NCC in this
fashion - just find a European station and use the NCC variable controls to
null him completely into the noise - then simply switch the B Phase switch
to Rev and you are on the peak. Turning the power on and off to the NCC will
verify the noise goes down and the Europe signals are improved.

73
Tim K3LR


-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 3:20 PM
To: k...@k3lr.com; ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hi Tim,
What do you use as a reference antenna as input  CH RX B to the NCC2? Do you
find one type of antenna works the best against local 60 HZ noise such as a
short vertical vs. a BOG vs. short Beverage vs. the transmit antenna?
Tnx
N2TK, Tony


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:54 PM
To: ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hello Bill:

Increased spacing might help your 160 meter performance. However with
multiple sources of local noise it may not be possible to get the results
you are looking for. The NCC-2 is very good when there is one source of
noise. It can produce very deep nulls and make a huge difference in being
able to hear signals.

There may also be some re-radiation of your noises from your top loaded 160
meter vertical - which will hurt a noise null as well.

I used the NCC with various receive antennas to work 83 countries last
weekend in the CQWW CW.

Here are a few videos of fighting RFI with the NCC2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCYj_PwgPIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzRl4cdpz8

73
Tim K3LR


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill via
Topband
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:19 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

I have the NCC-2 and 2 of the DX Engineering active verticals, the CQWW CW
was the first test drive. VERY impressive results on 40M, less so on 80M and
even less so on 160, compared to listening to the transmit antennas, an OCF
on 40/80 and top loaded vertical on 160. Just not much peaking or nulling of
signals found on 160M. The antennas are in a pine tree forest.
The noise is nonspecific, a constant S2 on 40, S4 on 80, and S5 on 160.
The neighborhood is lots of vacation cabins with a million possible noise
sources.

The question is: the spacing between the 2 active verticals is 50'. The
manual talks about spacing between 1/10 and 1/4 wavelength which is a big
variation when considering all 3 bands. Would an increase in spacing help on
160M? The ground rods were pounded into extremely rocky soil with a sledge
hammer and I can't get them out, so "experimenting" with the spacing would
require buying more ground rods :)

73, Bill KO7SS on Mt Lemmon in southern Arizona _ Topband
Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

[N2TK, Tony]

Tnx Tim for the info. I see a new toy being added to the Xmas list.
N2TK, Tony 

-Original Message-
From: Tim Duffy [mailto:k...@k3lr.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 4:16 PM
To: 'N2TK, Tony' ; ko...@yahoo.com;
topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hello Tony

I use various antennas - to phase combine together with the DXE NCC.

For example, my favorite combination is on NCC Channel A with the three
element vertical Yagi and NCC Channel B is the HIZ 8 circle in phase with
the HIZ 4 square (5000 ft between them broadside on Europe). I also feed the
TopBeam Horizontal Waller Flag (at 160 feet) into the B receiver of the
IC-7851 (diversity). Sometimes I will use the pair of DX Loops (optimized
Flags) on NCC Channel A.

I use the NCC to phase combine antennas for increased receiving performance
to a target area (like Europe). The received noise is reduced due to the NCC
combining the antennas for maximum gain off the front of the combined
pattern. It is simple to get maximum peak performance using the NCC in this
fashion - just find a European station and use the NCC variable controls to
null him completely into the noise - then simply switch the B Phase switch
to Rev and you are on the peak. Turning the power on and off to the NCC will
verify the noise goes down and the Europe signals are improved.

73
Tim K3LR


-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 3:20 PM
To: k...@k3lr.com; ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hi Tim,
What do you use as a reference antenna as input  CH RX B to the NCC2? Do you
find one type of antenna works the best against local 60 HZ noise such as a
short vertical vs. a BOG vs. short Beverage vs. the transmit antenna?
Tnx
N2TK, Tony


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:54 PM
To: ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hello Bill:

Increased spacing might help your 160 meter performance. However with
multiple sources of local noise it may not be possible to get the results
you are looking for. The NCC-2 is very good when there is one source of
noise. It can produce very deep nulls and make a huge difference in being
able to hear signals.

There may also be some re-radiation of your noises from your top loaded 160
meter vertical - which will hurt a noise null as well.

I used the NCC with various receive antennas to work 83 countries last
weekend in the CQWW CW.

Here are a few videos of fighting RFI with the NCC2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCYj_PwgPIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzRl4cdpz8

73
Tim K3LR


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill via
Topband
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:19 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

I have the NCC-2 and 2 of the DX Engineering active verticals, the CQWW CW
was the first test drive. VERY impressive results on 40M, less so on 80M and
even less so on 160, compared to listening to the transmit antennas, an OCF
on 40/80 and top loaded vertical on 160. Just not much peaking or nulling of
signals found on 160M. The antennas are in a pine tree forest.
The noise is nonspecific, a constant S2 on 40, S4 on 80, and S5 on 160.
The neighborhood is lots of vacation cabins with a million possible noise
sources.

The question is: the spacing between the 2 active verticals is 50'. The
manual talks about spacing between 1/10 and 1/4 wavelength which is a big
variation when considering all 3 bands. Would an increase in spacing help on
160M? The ground rods were pounded into extremely rocky soil with a sledge
hammer and I can't get them out, so "experimenting" with the spacing would
require buying more ground rods :)

73, Bill KO7SS on Mt Lemmon in southern Arizona _ Topband
Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

[Tim Duffy]

Hello Tony

I use various antennas - to phase combine together with the DXE NCC.

For example, my favorite combination is on NCC Channel A with the three
element vertical Yagi and NCC Channel B is the HIZ 8 circle in phase with
the HIZ 4 square (5000 ft between them broadside on Europe). I also feed the
TopBeam Horizontal Waller Flag (at 160 feet) into the B receiver of the
IC-7851 (diversity). Sometimes I will use the pair of DX Loops (optimized
Flags) on NCC Channel A.

I use the NCC to phase combine antennas for increased receiving performance
to a target area (like Europe). The received noise is reduced due to the NCC
combining the antennas for maximum gain off the front of the combined
pattern. It is simple to get maximum peak performance using the NCC in this
fashion - just find a European station and use the NCC variable controls to
null him completely into the noise - then simply switch the B Phase switch
to Rev and you are on the peak. Turning the power on and off to the NCC will
verify the noise goes down and the Europe signals are improved.

73
Tim K3LR


-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 3:20 PM
To: k...@k3lr.com; ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hi Tim,
What do you use as a reference antenna as input  CH RX B to the NCC2? Do you
find one type of antenna works the best against local 60 HZ noise such as a
short vertical vs. a BOG vs. short Beverage vs. the transmit antenna?
Tnx
N2TK, Tony


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:54 PM
To: ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hello Bill:

Increased spacing might help your 160 meter performance. However with
multiple sources of local noise it may not be possible to get the results
you are looking for. The NCC-2 is very good when there is one source of
noise. It can produce very deep nulls and make a huge difference in being
able to hear signals.

There may also be some re-radiation of your noises from your top loaded 160
meter vertical - which will hurt a noise null as well.

I used the NCC with various receive antennas to work 83 countries last
weekend in the CQWW CW.

Here are a few videos of fighting RFI with the NCC2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCYj_PwgPIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzRl4cdpz8

73
Tim K3LR


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill via
Topband
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:19 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

I have the NCC-2 and 2 of the DX Engineering active verticals, the CQWW CW
was the first test drive. VERY impressive results on 40M, less so on 80M and
even less so on 160, compared to listening to the transmit antennas, an OCF
on 40/80 and top loaded vertical on 160. Just not much peaking or nulling of
signals found on 160M. The antennas are in a pine tree forest.
The noise is nonspecific, a constant S2 on 40, S4 on 80, and S5 on 160.
The neighborhood is lots of vacation cabins with a million possible noise
sources.

The question is: the spacing between the 2 active verticals is 50'. The
manual talks about spacing between 1/10 and 1/4 wavelength which is a big
variation when considering all 3 bands. Would an increase in spacing help on
160M? The ground rods were pounded into extremely rocky soil with a sledge
hammer and I can't get them out, so "experimenting" with the spacing would
require buying more ground rods :)

73, Bill KO7SS on Mt Lemmon in southern Arizona _ Topband
Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Tim,
What do you use as a reference antenna as input  CH RX B to the NCC2? Do you
find one type of antenna works the best against local 60 HZ noise such as a
short vertical vs. a BOG vs. short Beverage vs. the transmit antenna?
Tnx
N2TK, Tony


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:54 PM
To: ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

Hello Bill:

Increased spacing might help your 160 meter performance. However with
multiple sources of local noise it may not be possible to get the results
you are looking for. The NCC-2 is very good when there is one source of
noise. It can produce very deep nulls and make a huge difference in being
able to hear signals.

There may also be some re-radiation of your noises from your top loaded 160
meter vertical - which will hurt a noise null as well.

I used the NCC with various receive antennas to work 83 countries last
weekend in the CQWW CW.

Here are a few videos of fighting RFI with the NCC2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCYj_PwgPIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzRl4cdpz8

73
Tim K3LR


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill via
Topband
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:19 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2

I have the NCC-2 and 2 of the DX Engineering active verticals, the CQWW CW
was the first test drive. VERY impressive results on 40M, less so on 80M and
even less so on 160, compared to listening to the transmit antennas, an OCF
on 40/80 and top loaded vertical on 160. Just not much peaking or nulling of
signals found on 160M. The antennas are in a pine tree forest.
The noise is nonspecific, a constant S2 on 40, S4 on 80, and S5 on 160.
The neighborhood is lots of vacation cabins with a million possible noise
sources.

The question is: the spacing between the 2 active verticals is 50'. The
manual talks about spacing between 1/10 and 1/4 wavelength which is a big
variation when considering all 3 bands. Would an increase in spacing help on
160M? The ground rods were pounded into extremely rocky soil with a sledge
hammer and I can't get them out, so "experimenting" with the spacing would
require buying more ground rods :)

73, Bill KO7SS on Mt Lemmon in southern Arizona _ Topband
Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Big 160m openings just before K index spikes

[Bob Lawson N6RW]

Is it just my imagination or have others noticed big 160 meter openings 
- hours before big K index spikes?


It seems that several times, we have had big openings into Europe and 
Asia from out here in Arizona and my hopes of having a great opening the 
next night was ruined by a big geomagnetic storm. Last Saturday morning, 
the JAs were quite weak here.  Sunday morning, several Asians had good 
signals.  BD4WN was the loudest I'd ever heard him and JA3YBK was 10 
over 9 at sunrise until 15 minutes past sunrise.  He was still solid 45 
minutes after sunrise.  Sunday night, I heard the first EU Russian since 
getting on TB almost three years ago.  I was looking forward to a great 
post-contest Monday night and bang - the K index jumped up to 4 - just 
like a few weeks before.  I heard no Asian signals this morning and so 
far no EU on 160 tonight (Monday night).


73 all de Bob N6RW Prescott AZ

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Re: Topband: FT-8 question

[Rob Atkinson]

> As is, its infuriating listening to high noise
> levels on 160m.   If I cant hear on 160m...except for the usual louder
> stations,  Im not going to even try TX.


Don't let noise stop you from transmitting.

>Right now, Im trying to evaluate if 160m is even worth
>the effort required.   Are the  rest of you on 5 acres out in the woods ?

Nope, I am on a 50 x 100 foot lot in town.  Try getting a pair of
small rx loops, two rotators, and a phasing network.  I have two pesky
noise sources from two directions and I can put one in the nulls of
the loops and phase out the other.   Of course all of this is a lot
more trouble than just putting up a dipole so 160 isn't for everyone,
but the challenge sort of gets into you.

I refuse to submit to the plasma TV authority and let 160 m. be the
province of those with "vast tracts of land."  You don't have to have
a S0 noise level to have a nice QSO with someone.

73

Rob
K5UJ
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Re: Topband: FT-8 question

[Dan Edward Dba East edwards]

nope, my lot is 120' x  160'...1/2 acre in suburbia...and like you, different 
flavors of noise in different directions...
I DO find FT-8 hears about 10 db better than i can on cw...FWIW...
73, w5xz, dan
 

On Saturday, December 2, 2017 2:47 PM, Jim Thomson  
wrote:
 

 Folks on FT-8 use a 2.5 khz  ssb wide RX  filter.    FT-8 is supposed to be 
good for 20 db  below the noise floor. 
I assume that means 20 db below the noise floor of the 2.5 khz RX filter ? 

But a 250 hz cw filter would drop the noise floor by 10 db... vs the 2.5 khz 
wider filter... if CW mode used. 

So  if Im reading this correctly,  FT-8 mode, using a 2.5 khz filteris 
really only 10 db better than a 250 hz cw filter, using cw mode ? 

If that is the case,  being able to copy signals 10 db  weaker than the noise 
floor of a  250 hz filter is still nothing to sneeze at. 

The issue I see with FT-8.. on any band is the requirement for a  2.5 khz 
filter and possibly being prone to qrm. 

Right now, my issue is extreme high noise levels on 160m... on a 100 by 130 
city lot.    Point a semi directional RX ant in the desired direction and 
its 
also pointed at a noise source.  Seems like I am surrounded by noise on 160m.  
Im going to drag out by noise canceller and try some more rx experiments,
b4 I throw in the towel.    FT-8 might just be an option for folks like myself 
that are plagued with high levels of noise.  Another possible option might be 
the use of real time  remote RX.  Another possible option might be using my 80m 
rotary dipole for 160m RX.  As is, its infuriating listening to high noise 
levels on 160m.  If I cant hear on 160m...except for the usual louder stations, 
 Im not going to even try TX. 

I have tried using a pair of  500 hz filters, and also a pair of 250 hz 
filters, and also a 125 + 250 combo, in both my MK-V..and also 1000-D. 
The MK-V also has a 240-120-60hz  dsp filter.  The 1000-D has a tunable audio 
cw filter.  The problem with the narrow xtal filters is...
with noise levels so high, the noise...  rings out the filters.  The signals 
coming out of  each filter... get stretched a bit in time duration.
What Im left with is this mess whereby the desired signals +  noise end up all 
mashed together.  Typ noise on 160m, using a 2.4 filter
is S9 to S9 + 10 db.  Right now, Im trying to evaluate if 160m is even worth 
the effort required.  Are the  rest of you on 5 acres out in the woods ? 

Jim  VE7RF  


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Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2 (Follow up)

[Bill via Topband]

Thanks to K3LR and KA1J and NS7V for sending many suggestions!


My NCC-2 with 2 DX Engineering active verticals spaced 50' apart didn't seem
to offer any peaks or nulls or noise reduction on 160M compared to the top
loaded transmit vertical. It does work on 40M and less so on 80M. On the
WWV 2.5 Mhz carrier it will easily null the tone down to inaudible from S8.

So for the ARRL 160M I increased the spacing to 100', added toroid chokes
at the base of each antenna, and put down the 4 x 15' radials for each.
The noise on 160M is diffuse at S4 and the NCC-2 still offered no peaks or
nulls of any signals and offered no advantage over listening on the XMIT
vertical. The internal jumpers were tried set for 1.800 and no jumpers.

So I still need a 160M RX antenna :( But I am keeping the NCC-2, it worked
quite well on 40/80 compared to listening to the 40/80 OCF, peaking some
signals very nicely and producing contacts in the CQWW CW and RTTY that
would not have been made otherwise.

73, Bill KO7SS in AZ
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Topband: ARRL 160

[Gary Smith]

This is the first major contest that I 
have taken part in a while, at least to 
the extent I actually put a real effort 
into it. Its taken a bit to get back in 
the game after my friend Pat became a SK 
this year. That said, I almost matched my 
score from two years ago when the band 
conditions were for me, far better for DX 
than this weekend.

I was running QRP with a less than ideal 
antenna yet still managed 535 QSOs. It was 
frustrating to hear so much DX and not be 
able to have them hear me. I'm guessing I 
must've heard at least 15 countries that I 
didn't work. When running QRP on 160, you 
have to go for low hanging fruit. I'm sure 
it's the same for everyone.

I was grateful that there weren't any 
storms happening locally this time and for 
the most part bands were pretty quiet. 
AMTRAK had its way with me at the Gray 
lines what with commuter trains running at 
that time but being a weekend made their 
schedule a little easier.

One of the surprises was when K7RAT called 
me Sunday Morning so at least my QRP 
signals were getting up to Boring, Oregon. 
The band must've been good because his 
signals were truly marvelous here as well, 
one of the loudest & cleanest signals on 
the band and he heard me with no trouble. 
If that was you at the helm, thank you 
Tree for the multiplier!

Sunday morning at Gray line was really 
something beautiful to see on the P3. 1/2 
hour before there may have been 50-70 
people CQing and then the waterfall became 
a Kaleidoscope with the band packed with 
people as tight as sardines up to 1875 or 
so. It's obvious when the band changes and 
the atmospheric noise is visualized as 
color in motion, in two dimensions. If you 
haven't seen the morning Gray line on a 
waterfall during a 160 contest, you're 
missing something interesting.

Hope all had fun.

73,

Gary
KA1J
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Topband: Test Conditions & Hi-Z 8 Circle

[Doug Turnbull]

Total:  QSOs = 211  Sections = 53  Countries = 3  Total Score = 22,366

This started as a fun type dip in and dip out effort using search and pounce
only from data supplied by RBN and reflectors.   Just click, listen and try
tobe heard.   The Stew Perry will be different with no assistance. I managed
tostay up on Friday night till 04:15 UTC and started again going in and out
on Sunday Morning from 04:30 till about 08:00.   The total operating time is
about 10 hours so the Q rate is very low at around 20 but even so I was
never bored or falling to sleep.

The receive antenna is a Hi-Z 8 circle for 160M only.   It is very directive
with a frontal lobe of about 52 degrees and F/B of up to 30/35 db but this
varies depending on the incoming angle and exact location of the station off
the back.Still from Ireland, Europe is to my back and greatly
attenuated.  I am no alligator as I hear much better than I am heard.   Most
spots had a signal associated with them but many of these stations could not
hear me.

I run 1500W allowed for this contest in Ireland and the TX antenna is an
inverted L 100 foot (30M) vertical.   The ground radial system is over kill
with over 125 radials of about 0.25 wavelength.

With the Hi-Z antenna the band has little noise but there are readable
signals everywhere in a contest.   Note I am talking of the 160M only eight
circlewhich uses all eight verticals at anyone time.   Some of the eight
circles are interlaced four square antennas with a broader front lobe

Like others, I did not find the morning grey line to provide that much of a
boost.My greatest DX was Arizona.It made me happy to work WD5COV in
New Mexico a state for which I have a special affection. This NM QSO was a
real battle and I needed to return to the frequency many times before a QSO
was made.  South Dakota closer in was also worked.Pretty much everything
else to the east of the Mississippi is in the log including most of the
mid-west to the west but not the likes of NE or ND.No west coast
stations were heard.  Nothing west of VE3 was worked in the northern
neighbour.

I tried and tried to work K7NJ in Utah; his signal was a consistent Q5
through at least two hours but no way could I bust through all the people
calling him.Oh well maybe next time.   K7NJ was really working NA and
also JA but I did not hear any EU make the jump.   Not doubt his log is full
of EU stations this is just what I heard.

About five years ago the west coast, KH6 and KL7 would be worked in the
early morning hours with a poorer antenna system for both RX and TX.So
things are not as good as once upon a time but maybe we will yet see a
general improvement.  All we can do on TB is to record our results - it is
very hard to make predictions.  

  CU in the Stew 73 Doug EI2CN  

-Original Message-



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Topband: RBOG info

[KA2FIR]

Hi,


I recently purchased a pair of RBOG combos used and would like to get them up 
and running. As an alternative to the DXE RBOG wire would landscaping wire be 
ok? I've found Paige 18/2 or 16/2 landscaping wire at at cheaper price for 
500'. It's bare copper as opposed to tinned and the jacket is PVC as opposed to 
PE. Paige says it's "sunlight resistant."


What is the optimum lenght, 180 or 200'?


I believe they should be aimed NE/SW and NNW/SSE?


My soil is rocky and on a hill/mountain/sloping. I was told the crows foot 
radials will pick up noise. Any truth to that?


Tnx,


Mike KA2FiR
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Re: Topband: FT-8 question

[Grant Saviers]

Hi Jim,

Well, yes on the 5 acres, but still suburban.  But, I do notice that FT8 
on the vertical 160 T often decodes as well as my DXE 4 sq receive which 
has directivity and thus less noise.  Same comment from another op here 
locally.  I don't see any advantage to subsegment filtering, and in fact 
I think a wide bandwidth DSP/IF will have less phase distortion.  That's 
what the FT8 "manual" says also.  I run "wide open" 3 KHz on my Pro3 and 
don't see any problems other than AGC pumping and desense from locals. 
(its hard to turn on/off AGC completely).  I checked out 160 tonight 
with the cw contest on, FT8 decoded most of the FT8 signals even with CW 
all over the FT8 "segment".  (let's not revisit THAT!!)  Listening on 
your 80m dipole will probably help, it did for me at another QTH. Then 
there is all the advice from N4IS.   It is also fascinating to watch the 
FT8 decoder pretty much ignore the woodpecker on 80m when I work 80m AM 
greyline into Asia from here (Seattle).


Grant KZ1W

On 12/2/2017 9:07 AM, Jim Thomson wrote:

Folks on FT-8 use a 2.5 khz  ssb wide RX  filter.FT-8 is supposed to be 
good for 20 db  below the noise floor.
I assume that means 20 db below the noise floor of the 2.5 khz RX filter ?

But a 250 hz cw filter would drop the noise floor by 10 db... vs the 2.5 khz 
wider filter... if CW mode used.

So  if Im reading this correctly,  FT-8 mode, using a 2.5 khz filteris 
really only 10 db better than a 250 hz cw filter, using cw mode ?

If that is the case,  being able to copy signals 10 db  weaker than the noise 
floor of a  250 hz filter is still nothing to sneeze at.

The issue I see with FT-8.. on any band is the requirement for a  2.5 khz 
filter and possibly being prone to qrm.

Right now, my issue is extreme high noise levels on 160m... on a 100 by 130 
city lot.Point a semi directional RX ant in the desired direction and 
its
also pointed at a noise source.  Seems like I am surrounded by noise on 160m.   
Im going to drag out by noise canceller and try some more rx experiments,
b4 I throw in the towel.FT-8 might just be an option for folks like myself 
that are plagued with high levels of noise.   Another possible option might be
the use of real time  remote RX.   Another possible option might be using my 
80m rotary dipole for 160m RX.   As is, its infuriating listening to high noise
levels on 160m.   If I cant hear on 160m...except for the usual louder 
stations,  Im not going to even try TX.

I have tried using a pair of  500 hz filters, and also a pair of 250 hz 
filters, and also a 125 + 250 combo, in both my MK-V..and also 1000-D.
The MK-V also has a 240-120-60hz  dsp filter.  The 1000-D has a tunable audio 
cw filter.   The problem with the narrow xtal filters is...
with noise levels so high, the noise...  rings out the filters.   The signals 
coming out of  each filter... get stretched a bit in time duration.
What Im left with is this mess whereby the desired signals +  noise end up all 
mashed together.  Typ noise on 160m, using a 2.4 filter
is S9 to S9 + 10 db.   Right now, Im trying to evaluate if 160m is even worth 
the effort required.   Are the  rest of you on 5 acres out in the woods ?

Jim   VE7RF


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Re: Topband: FT-8 question

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Give FT8 a try.  I worked my first EU the other night and then a few 
last night in the contest,  G, F, EA and CT9.  Not much Caribbean or 
Africa on.  I did copy a couple of JA's the other night while the 
antenna was at EU while I slept.


Remote is where many of us will be as we continue to fill up the world 
and cities with noisy electronics.


W0MU


On 12/2/2017 10:07 AM, Jim Thomson wrote:

Folks on FT-8 use a 2.5 khz  ssb wide RX  filter.FT-8 is supposed to be 
good for 20 db  below the noise floor.
I assume that means 20 db below the noise floor of the 2.5 khz RX filter ?

But a 250 hz cw filter would drop the noise floor by 10 db... vs the 2.5 khz 
wider filter... if CW mode used.

So  if Im reading this correctly,  FT-8 mode, using a 2.5 khz filteris 
really only 10 db better than a 250 hz cw filter, using cw mode ?

If that is the case,  being able to copy signals 10 db  weaker than the noise 
floor of a  250 hz filter is still nothing to sneeze at.

The issue I see with FT-8.. on any band is the requirement for a  2.5 khz 
filter and possibly being prone to qrm.

Right now, my issue is extreme high noise levels on 160m... on a 100 by 130 
city lot.Point a semi directional RX ant in the desired direction and 
its
also pointed at a noise source.  Seems like I am surrounded by noise on 160m.   
Im going to drag out by noise canceller and try some more rx experiments,
b4 I throw in the towel.FT-8 might just be an option for folks like myself 
that are plagued with high levels of noise.   Another possible option might be
the use of real time  remote RX.   Another possible option might be using my 
80m rotary dipole for 160m RX.   As is, its infuriating listening to high noise
levels on 160m.   If I cant hear on 160m...except for the usual louder 
stations,  Im not going to even try TX.

I have tried using a pair of  500 hz filters, and also a pair of 250 hz 
filters, and also a 125 + 250 combo, in both my MK-V..and also 1000-D.
The MK-V also has a 240-120-60hz  dsp filter.  The 1000-D has a tunable audio 
cw filter.   The problem with the narrow xtal filters is...
with noise levels so high, the noise...  rings out the filters.   The signals 
coming out of  each filter... get stretched a bit in time duration.
What Im left with is this mess whereby the desired signals +  noise end up all 
mashed together.  Typ noise on 160m, using a 2.4 filter
is S9 to S9 + 10 db.   Right now, Im trying to evaluate if 160m is even worth 
the effort required.   Are the  rest of you on 5 acres out in the woods ?

Jim   VE7RF


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