Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Agelos-SV3RF via Topband]

 What bothers me from this story is that we all become websdr user 
suspects.Especially those of us with increased RX capabilities.Agelos-SV3RF
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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[terry burge]

The communication act of 1934 has be 'amended', changed, whatever a few years 
back by congress. I think it was on behalf of the NSA and CIA or homeland 
security. (always hated that 'homeland security' name. It sounds too much like 
'for the Fatherland' for me). And the cellphone companies. You can not listen 
to cellphone frequencies up in the 940Mhz range or so That is why VHF./UHF 
receiver like my Icom R-7000 are blocked there. Buy one in some other country 
and you find them being sold with those cellphone frequencies working. And what 
about the rule where you are not suppose to pass on any information you hear on 
the radio to the public. Every time hams dememstraight a field day operation to 
the local TV or newspaper I've wondered if it was technically a violation of 
the FCC part 95 rules. Or when some ship in distress gets a ham to contact 
authorities and pass on the coordinated and ccondition they at in needing help 
for.


Just wish that had not messed with the communications act of 1934. I thought it 
was one time when congress do something right for the public.


Terry

KI7M

> On January 16, 2018 at 3:02 PM jayb1...@optonline.net 
> mailto:jayb1...@optonline.net wrote:
> 
> 
> I think we are all losing sight of one important fact: the “rules” 
> everyone
> seems to speaking about are ARRL rules...the only “rules” ANY ham is
> obligated to follow are the applicable government regulations associated
> with the country they have been licensed by. Believe it or not, not all 
> hams
> in the world belong to, or care about, the ARRL. Remember the 
> Communications
> Act of 1934 ? This law guarantees that anybody can RECEIVE radio signals 
> on
> any band in any way they can get them. The only “rules” in the US are
> written to govern the nature and frequencies of TRANSMISSIONS of RF.
> It is hard for me to understand why so many of us seem to want to impose
> their own interpretation of the “rules” on our fellow hams when most of 
> them
> don’t care how the DX station hears them as long as they “make the 
> contact”.
> If any station decides that this is not a valid QSO (for ARRL reasons), he
> can choose to leave it out of his log...What other stations do with that
> situation should be of no concern to him.
> We can only wait and see how the ARRL acts (or not) on the use of web 
> sdr’s
> as it relates to DXCC, contests, etc. I would expect a heated debate at HQ
> as acting against their use denies the technology, something they have 
> been
> wont to do.
> For now, I will work them now, worry about the “rules” later (or not).
> Remember to have fun guys
> 73 jay NY2NY
> _
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> 
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Re: Topband: E31A on Topband

[VK3HJ]

E31A was quite good copy here this morning when I was on around my sunrise 
1915z and still audible 20 minutes later.


I'm sure a QSO will be quite impossible with their proximity to Europe. Some 
quite good signals in the pileup too.


73 es GL,

Luke VK3HJ 


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Re: Topband: VU2GSM webSDR use: A Clarification

[Jim Thomson]

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 08:17:41 -0500
From: "Joe Giacobello, K2XX" 
To: a Topband COL 
Cc: VE6WZ_Steve , Ron Spencer
, k...@dxer.com
Subject: Topband: Fwd: Re:  VU2GSM webSDR use:  A Clarification

Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Jim Thomson]

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:41:05 +0800
From: Jeff Blaine 
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log


http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[JAYB1943]

I think we are all losing sight of one important fact: the “rules” everyone 
seems to speaking about are ARRL rules...the only “rules” ANY ham is 
obligated to follow are the applicable government regulations associated 
with the country they have been licensed by. Believe it or not, not all hams 
in the world belong to, or care about, the ARRL. Remember the Communications 
Act of 1934 ? This law guarantees that anybody can RECEIVE radio signals on 
any band in any way they can get them. The only “rules” in the US are 
written to govern the nature and frequencies of TRANSMISSIONS of RF.
It is hard for me to understand why so many of us seem to want to impose 
their own interpretation of the “rules” on our fellow hams when most of them 
don’t care how the DX station hears them as long as they “make the contact”. 
If any station decides that this is not a valid QSO (for ARRL reasons), he 
can choose to leave it out of his log...What other stations do with that 
situation should be of no concern to him.
We can only wait and see how the ARRL acts (or not) on the use of web sdr’s 
as it relates to DXCC, contests, etc. I would expect a heated debate at HQ 
as acting against their use denies the technology, something they have been 
wont to do.
For now, I will work them now, worry about the “rules” later (or not).
Remember to have fun guys
73 jay NY2NY 
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Topband: No power line noise in any direction.

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

After two Cat 5 Hurricanes, Irma and Maria, devastated the Vi I have been
able to get back to listening on topband with a few new reversible
DX-Engineering Beverage packages. The linemen from all over the country run
by an operation out of Plainville, NY have been rebuilding the entire
island's grid to different standards.  No more cross bars nor top pin
insulators. Hardware to continuously arc. No more tree branches to snap
crackle and pop.  160 meters is alive with signals especially on 1840 using
FT-8 mode. What is totally absent is electrical powerline noise.I'm
certain that with the salt spray and volcanic dust from VP2M the noise will
return.  But for now, it is simply wonderful on topband.


Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
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Topband: Fwd: VU2GSM webSDR use

[vu2gsm via Topband]

Begin forwarded message:

> From: vu2gsm 
> Date: January 16, 2018 at 04:28:11 GMT+5:30
> To: Mark van Wijk 
> Subject: Re: Topband: VU2GSM webSDR use
> 
> Hello All,
> Guess lots and lots of water has flown below the bridge ( and below the 
> belt!).
> First place the discussion was never on Top Band and my attention was drawn 
> to this thread rather late.
> In sum of the discussions the topic was "use of remote SDRs for receive while 
> in a QSO"  and as usual topic veered from "for and against" and so on ending 
> up with "cheating".
> Discussion will have to run the course and enough is enough .The gentleman 
> who posted my personal e mail to another ham must have had the etiquette of 
> seeking my permission before publishing my e mail on this thread. So much of 
> a talk about " right to privacy"
> In between , when whole thread was not about Top Band" one gentle man in his 
> saintly post , offers Top Band QSO for free! on LOTW.
> Whole discussion did not touch up on " legally permitted power for TX."
> Here in VU it is 400w of DC in put( yes 400 w of DC input) and I have been on 
> TB from 2006 with that kind of power and I never crossed Asia forget about 
> Atlantic.
> Is a QSO with a illegally( power) operating station , not using a remote SDR, 
> valid for a DXCC?
> Discussion can be endless and many many pages can be written. At least I have 
> honestly stated that " supplement my receive capability with remote SDR" .
> Thanks all for erudite discussions( without hearing the other party).
> vu2gsm
> 
> Kanti
> 
> 
>> On Jan 15, 2018, at 15:39, Mark van Wijk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Manoj.
>> 
>> Much appreciate your (RX antenna) efforts !
>> 
>> Don't worry too much about the typical negative comments, especially those on
>> chat-rooms.
>> 
>> Today's world is too much about "instant gratification at no personal 
>> effort". 
>> And self-declared know-it-all personalities :)
>> 
>> If I cannot work you on Top-Band then it is my  is my goal to slowly learn 
>> and
>> become better, analyze my efforts, built, test antennas and such.
>> 
>> In the meantime we can chat somewhere about our efforts and share learnings
>> 
>> That is what this wonderful hobby is about.
>> 
>> Maybe I work you this season, maybe the next, maybe in 10yrs from now. That's
>> all fine and we have something to look forward to :)
>> 
>> Good luck and enjoy !
>> 
>> 73 Mark, PA5MW
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Op 15 januari 2018 om 6:22 schreef Manoj Ramawarrier :
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I am a newbie on TB and started working here only from 02 Dec 2017. I have 
>>> so
>>> far 632 QSOs 58 DXCC entities worked and 52 confirmed on lotw. 
>>> Each of these QSOs, were hard, but I can proudly say I heard and worked all 
>>> on
>>> my TX/RX.
>>> 
>>> I have been seeing the discussion on this topic and is equally dismayed and
>>> pained at the comments and conclusions implying all VU’s might be doing 
>>> this. 
>>> Please don’t generalise that all VUs and 4S7s. I understand VU is rare on TB
>>> and have been getting a lot of email requests and some of them - US5WE and
>>> K4PI had to really sweat it out for almost 2 weeks. 
>>> If websdr was the option, we would have done it on first day itself.
>>> 
>>> There were complaints on ON4KST chat room that I don’t hear well. Fine, I 
>>> went
>>> ahead and installed a 350 ft Beverage and I started hearing much better in
>>> NNW/SSE direction. Now next is an E/W Beverage.
>>> 
>>> If any of you want a QSO on any band/mode please feel free to contact. I use
>>> lotw and will be happy to confirm your qso immediately.
>>> 
>>> HNY  73
>>> 
>>> Manoj VU2CPL
>>> 
>>> _
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _
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Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 181, Issue 21

[Lawrence Stoskopf]

Sitting south of the house looking over the pond

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2018, at 11:00 AM, topband-requ...@contesting.com wrote:
> 
> Send Topband mailing list submissions to
>topband@contesting.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: cheating (Cecil Acuff)
>   2. Re: Topband Digest, Vol 181, Issue 20 (Pete Rimmel N8PR)
>   3. sdrWEB not going in my log (terry burge)
>   4. Cheating the system (John Randall)
>   5. Re: sdrWEB not going in my log (Peter Voelpel)
>   6. Re: sdrWEB not going in my log (Peter Sundberg)
>   7. Re: sdrWEB not going in my log (Jeff Blaine)
>   8. "use" of webSDR (Johann Bruinier)
>   9. Fwd: Re:  VU2GSM webSDR use:  A Clarification
>  (Joe Giacobello, K2XX)
>  10. Re: sdrWEB not going in my log (StellarCAT)
>  11. Re: sdrWEB not going in my log (Jeff Blaine)
>  12. Re: sdrWEB not going in my log (Nick Hall-Patch)
>  13. Sunrise and Signals (aa0rs)
>  14. E31A on Topband (Tim Shoppa)
>  15. Re: E31A on Topband (k...@voyager.net)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:29:17 -0600
> From: Cecil Acuff 
> To: STEVE DANIEL 
> Cc: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: cheating
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
> 
> Well that was a lot of help Steve
> 
> You can crawl back under your rock now...
> 
> Cecil
> K5DL
> 
> Sent using recycled electrons.
> 
>> On Jan 15, 2018, at 9:23 PM, STEVE DANIEL  wrote:
>> 
>> Guy. You did it the "hard" way did you? I have been a ham and DXer since 
>> 1973 and have always encountered people like you. "You don't know how hard 
>> it was when I was your age. You have no idea how hard it was to work DX back 
>> then" Blah Blah Blah. It was BS then and it is BS now. The only thing that 
>> matters is if one works within the rules of the award or contest in which 
>> they compete. Technology evolves; rules evolve. Perhaps you and your ilk 
>> need to do the same. Look backward if you must. I choose to look in the 
>> other direction. Steve Daniel, NN4T
>>> On January 15, 2018 at 6:28 PM Guy Olinger K2AV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> With apologies to Tree, who has asked that this subject be dropped...
>>> 
>>> The question of the effect of a remote receiver or receivers has
>>> already been dealt with by some contest organizers needing clarity and
>>> consistency using current actual technical possibilities while
>>> retaining the flavor and character of a contest. Probably the best
>>> (IMHO) adjustment on remotes is that from Tree and Lew and the
>>> inimitable BARC in the Stew Perry TBDC.
>>> 
>>> The first part of their answer simply says remote RX *and* TX is fine,
>>> and is treated like a very long electronic line from key and headset
>>> to the station wherever it is. Grid square and possible required
>>> xxn/callsign signing are from the remote location, which is the point
>>> of record for scoring, standing, awards, etc.
>>> 
>>> The second part is that using a local TX the receiver(s) may be
>>> *entirely* co-located with the TX, or the RX facility may be
>>> *entirely* sited at a single location 75 km or less from the TX
>>> location. Using this provision, listening on the TX antenna is not
>>> permitted during the contest. Although the rule uses the word
>>> "receiver" in the singular, in their mind it does not preclude use of
>>> a remote diversity RX, eg, K3 equipped with phase-locked diversity
>>> subRX.
>>> 
>>> Please remember that "cheating" with respect to ARRL DXCC has to do
>>> with *ARRL* rules for same. Arguably some DXCC rules are so lax as to
>>> be meaningless, but they are the ARRL's rules. It has nothing to do
>>> with our being irritated or angered by someone who using modern
>>> technical extensions claims the same status as ourselves when we have
>>> gotten those numbers the HARD way, digging out countries through the
>>> urban noise never heard up on those mountain or off-continent remotes.
>>> 
>>> In the end someone whose status self-image depends on what others do
>>> is inevitably doomed to anger. There will always, always be a cheat
>>> among us somewhere. If we must compare, compare ourselves only to the
>>> most noble examples. Or better yet BE that most noble example, knowing
>>> God knows even if no one else does, and sleep well at night.
>>> 
>>> 73, Guy K2AV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Steve Daniel 

Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[terry burge]

Hi Nick and the group,

Nick, I was running a KW to my inv-V at 100'. Far as I know they don't use 
SDR's. It was an interesting experiment and later around 08:00Z I did manage to 
work G4AMN, EI6S and G4PEL direct. It amazed me how strong some of the stations 
were in Europe and how hard they were to hear on the west coast. But of course 
that is the problem with working Europe from Oregon. They were loud like we 
hear the W6's, W7's, etc. I did hear OK2,OE3,DL,YT1AA and others that would be 
new countries for me on 80, not to mention 160 meters of course. But I'm just 
too stuck in my ways I guess to change. 

Do you suppose the last T-Rex to die wished he was a ground squirrel?

This morning I got up and smiled that I did not put the contacts in my log that 
required the SDR. That's my way of staying true to what I feel my DXCC should 
be done. I'm not really that big on wall paper as some refer to it, but after 
having spent 40 years chasing DX on ham radio and before that BCB and SWL, I 
feel some pride in those DXCC's on my wall. Same way with some of the contest 
ones.

DXCC is what you make it. I just hope the commercial interest at the ARRL don't 
ruin it. Ever try to find technical articles on their webpage. I don't think 
you can anymore without buying their DVD's or some other way of getting more 
money.

Terry
KI7M
> On January 16, 2018 at 7:17 AM Nick Hall-Patch  wrote:
> 
> 
> Did the Europeans hear your barefoot transmission, but you were not 
> able to hear their barefoot transmission Terry?   Or were you both 
> using webSDRs in each others' localities?
> 
> (and was this on 160m?)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Nick
> VE7DXR
> 
> At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
> >Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
> >on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
> >and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish 
> >in the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
> >They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. 
> >And I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the 
> >world would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out 
> >of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
> >reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!
> >
> >
> >So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
> >webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
> >maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
> >Radio geeks think.
> >
> >
> >Terry
> >
> >KI7M
> >
> >_
> >Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> Nick Hall-Patch
> Victoria, BC
> Canada 
> 
> 
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Topband: cheating the system

[John Randall via Topband]

Well, I had to have a last last say did'nt I. In the latest February Edition of 
Practical Wireless magazine is an article on a diversity adapter, whereby one 
can connect your receiver to one ant port and say a websdtr or another receiver 
at your 2nd home to the other port and than adjust the convergence pot so that 
the two signals blend into one stable good signal. How would this pan out in 
the ARRL rules. I think that there must be a serious discussion among the 
various telecom regions to try and iron out a plan of action, if they even dare 
to.
Just for being nosey, I ran the ft8 software last night before bed to see what 
I could see and boy, there were stations from all over the world on topband, 
happily working each other. Twenty minutes later I went back to my flex 3000 
and heard some german and italians on the QRO section and bliss returned. 
73John - M0ELS

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Topband: E31A on Topband

[Tim Shoppa]

E31A was up and down for a while last night, sometimes OK copy for me and
sometimes not.

But in the hour before his sunrise he really peaked up A LOT. My logger
tells me his sunrise at at 3:53Z and my QSO was about 40 minutes before
that.

Tim N3QE
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Topband: Sunrise and Signals

[aa0rs]

Colorado: This morning I started calling CQ around 0550 local (12:50Z) time
and managed to work a few JA stations, HL5IVL was also around, all signals
were 4x5, rapid QSB was again prevalent. 

I opened up the DXMaps website to see what others were hearing and saw that
JA1LZR had logged my signals over a period of nearly an hour as follows:

3dB @ 1320 Z

6dB @ 1332 

5dB @ 1346 

16dB @ 1359 

17dB @ 0712 

The very rapid signal rise at his end shows there was significant signal
enhancement which was not reciprocated at my end, what few stations were
audible were well down in the noise. Unfortunately I did not see any further
spots despite continuing to call CQ for another 30 minutes into broad
daylight, I would have liked to have seen how quickly signals decreased, the
signal path was shown as just over 9km.

Interestingly, KH6LC had also provided spots over the same period which
showed a signal variation of 6,8,7,6dB  on a path length of 5km , he is just
South of West from here, JA is NW. Several spots from W6/W7 stations showed
a decrease of 1 to 3 dB over the same period.

 

73 to all.

Dave AA0RS

 

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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Nick Hall-Patch]

Did the Europeans hear your barefoot transmission, but you were not 
able to hear their barefoot transmission Terry?   Or were you both 
using webSDRs in each others' localities?


(and was this on 160m?)

Thanks.

Nick
VE7DXR

At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish 
in the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. 
And I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the 
world would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out 
of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!



So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
Radio geeks think.



Terry

KI7M

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Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada 



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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Jeff Blaine]

Hi gary,

I thought that was the rule.  But I've not dug into it because I don't 
use the remotes.  So just now I looked and you are 100% right.  Here's 
what the ARRL web page says from Section 1...


*9.  Station Location and Boundary:*

*a)*All stations used to make contacts for a specific DXCC award must be 
located within the same DXCC entity.
*b)*All transmitters and receivers comprising a station used for a 
specific contact must be located within a 500-meter diameter circle.
*c)*QSOs made with legally licensed, remotely controlled stations are 
allowed to be used for DXCC credit.


Thanks for setting me straight!

73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com

On 16-Jan-18 10:30 PM, StellarCAT wrote:

Jeff wrote:
“There is no way to supervise this behavior globally.  .- 
even though ARRL DXCC regulations make the use of an east-coast USA remote 
receiver point perfectly acceptable. ...I really can't 
complaint because it's allowed explicitly by the rules and it's within their 
set of choices.  “
73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com  This is the second post I’ve seen that states this ... did I miss 
something in the rules for DXCC? It seems like it does NOT allow for a remote 
receiver! It ONLY allows for a remote STATION, see rule 9b. It says, I thought, 
that BOTH RX and TX antennas must be within 500M of each other ... so one that 
chooses to receive on the right coast when they’re on the left (or vice versa) 
ISN’T complying with the rules. I recently heard a station that is often high 
on the CL leaderboard – calling the 6O group in the middle of the day on 40 
meters when it was being spotted only by W6’s. This guy is on the EAST coast 
(LP) ... weird propagation?  personally I would not count such a contact – and 
would like to see the agreed to if not required use of something like a /s in 
the call for SDR RX. This would only apply to those that are using remote RX– 
which would then allow stations to decide on what to do with it. But again 
unless I misread it, and if so my apologies, it doesn’t allow for remote RX for 
DXCC!   Gary K9RX
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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[StellarCAT]

Jeff wrote:  
“There is no way to supervise this behavior globally.  .- 
even though ARRL DXCC regulations make the use of an east-coast USA remote 
receiver point perfectly acceptable. ...I really can't 
complaint because it's allowed explicitly by the rules and it's within their 
set of choices.  “
73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com  This is the second post I’ve seen that states this ... did I miss 
something in the rules for DXCC? It seems like it does NOT allow for a remote 
receiver! It ONLY allows for a remote STATION, see rule 9b. It says, I thought, 
that BOTH RX and TX antennas must be within 500M of each other ... so one that 
chooses to receive on the right coast when they’re on the left (or vice versa) 
ISN’T complying with the rules. I recently heard a station that is often high 
on the CL leaderboard – calling the 6O group in the middle of the day on 40 
meters when it was being spotted only by W6’s. This guy is on the EAST coast 
(LP) ... weird propagation?  personally I would not count such a contact – and 
would like to see the agreed to if not required use of something like a /s in 
the call for SDR RX. This would only apply to those that are using remote RX– 
which would then allow stations to decide on what to do with it. But again 
unless I misread it, and if so my apologies, it doesn’t allow for remote RX for 
DXCC!   Gary K9RX
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Topband: Fwd: Re: VU2GSM webSDR use: A Clarification

[Joe Giacobello, K2XX via Topband]

Several members of this forum rightfully objected to my post "doubting" 
VU2GSM's use of remote RX in QSOs since he had openly admitted to same 
in his correspondence.  Since I view my e-mail in reverse chronological 
order, I had read Paul's post and responded before seeing the posts by 
VE6WZ with the links to his correspondence with VU2GSM.  I apologize for 
my hasty response and resultant ambiguity.


Nevertheless, I have worked Kanti a couple of times on each of 30, 40 
and 80M.  The 30M QSOs took place generally around his SR and early 
evening here, and I have heard him many times in that time frame on that 
band.  I use a two element quad and either 100 or 200W output on that 
band, and his reports of my signal, 559, are consistent with those 
conditions.  When I worked him on 80M, I began a correspondence with 
him.  His response to that initial e-mail was "Yes i got you clearly and 
you were overriding QSB."  That sure sounds like he was copying me 
directly.  Further, for some reason when I had QSLed him directly, I had 
omitted our 80M QSO and had to request a second QSL from him via 
e-mail.  In that exchange there was not the slightest hint of his using 
remote RX.  Subsequently, because he knew I had an Expert 2K amp here, 
we had several detailed e-mail exchanges to discuss the set-up of his 
newly acquired 1.3K amp.  Again, there was absolutely no hint of using 
remote RX.


It appears that he does use remote RX at times, but a review of the 
times and signal reports for all our QSOs strongly support direct, long 
haul reception.


Again, I apologize for any ambiguity in my previous post.

73, Joe
K2XX


*From:* "Joe Giacobello, K2XX" 
*Date:* Monday, January 15, 2018 10:37 AM
*To:* Paul Christensen 
*CC:* 'Steve Babcock' , 'topband' 
*Subject:* Topband: VU2GSM webSDR use
Like Paul, I seriously doubt that Kanti is using a remote receiver.  I 
have worked him on 30, 40 and 80M and have had occasional 
correspondence with him regarding his relatively recently acquired 
Expert 1.3K amp.  The signal reports he has given me seem appropriate 
for the times and band conditions at the time of the QSOs.  I'm 
confident that had he been using a remote RX, it would have come up in 
our correspondence.


73, Joe
K2XX

*From:* Paul Christensen 
*Date:* Sunday, January 14, 2018 12:29 PM
*To:* "'Steve Babcock'" , "'topband'" 


*Subject:* Topband: VU2GSM webSDR use
No doubt some ops are using WebSDR on receive, but in this case, I am 
skeptical of the skepticism. Here's why:


I routinely work VU2GSM on 40m GL-LP in the early morning hours on a 
210-degree bearing from FL to VU. He is consistently S9, peaking +10 
dB on my Elecraft K3. The remote station I share with N4CC is in 
Hilliard, FL just east of the St. Mary's River. Our antenna is a 
full-size 4 el. M2 40m OWA at 140 ft AGL.


On the 210 deg. bearing, the land slopes almost immediately into the 
river valley. VU2GSM's solid signals aren't an isolated event; he is 
that strong most of the LP season. VU2GSM cannot be detected on my 
backyard dipole at my home QTH 30 miles to the south in Jacksonville. 
The dipole is up 35 ft. AGL. When I say he can't be detected, I mean 
there's no trace on the dipole whatsoever, not even a blip that rises 
above the SDR noise floor. That's to be expected on a low dipole if 
the arriving angle is skimming the horizon.


According to HFTA, the statistical mode from FL to VU is 1 degree 
above the horizon. The sloping terrain accounts for much of VU2GSM's 
solid signals into the station. Forget 4-square arrays over good soil, 
Forget stacked arrays up to 200 ft AGL. Apart from verticals on salt 
water, nothing else compares with high horizonal antennas into sloping 
terrain when the statistical mode is 1 degree above the horizon. When 
VU2GSM is +10/S9 here, I am certain he is hearing me on his dipole and 
he doesn't need WebSDR.


When I hear other NA stations calling VU2GSM on 40m, he cannot hear 
many, if not most of them. Of those he picks out, he struggles to copy 
unless they're from stations with excellent antenna systems - like 
those in the RHR group. So, if VU2GSM is routinely using WebSDR on 40m 
receive, his operating habits are not reflective of such claims.


Paul, W9AC






-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
Steve Babcock

Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2018 10:03 AM
To: topband 
Cc: Larry D Brailean ; Don Moman VE6JY 


Subject: Topband: VU2GSM webSDR use

I have been "sitting" on this for a few weeks wondering if I should 
share this information, but after seeing some spots yesterday for 
VU2GSM on 160m, I decided that others may appreciate it.

I know I would.

If you have worked Kanti, VU2GSM recently on the low bands...40, 80 or 
160 you should be aware that 

Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Jeff Blaine]

There is no way to supervise this behavior globally.  It's ultimately up 
to each op to decide on what falls under ethical conduct.  And opinions 
vary as to what is proper and what's not, even among peoples of a single 
country with similar cultural view.


I personally don't use receivers or antennas that are not located at my 
QTH - even though ARRL DXCC regulations make the use of an east-coast 
USA remote receiver point perfectly acceptable. However that's my choice 
and of course, compared to someone using that sort of arrangement is 
going to have a few more guys in the log that I may never hear which is 
part of the price I pay for the choice I have made.  However if another 
guy wants to take advantage of the rules allowing for a US-based remote 
receiver that is much closer to the other station, I really can't 
complaint because it's allowed explicitly by the rules and it's within 
their set of choices.  The example Peter lists of the webSDR pair is 
certainly possible in the modern world but that kind of QSO is not going 
to go into my log because I've decided that is not my personal sort of 
ham radio QSO.


Each of us has an obligation is to manage our own personal behavior 
within the scope of the official rules - what the rest of the ham world 
does is up to them.  In the end, each ham who looks at a prized QSL from 
a rare one, or who looks at the DXCC plaque on the wall with a count 
higher than their local competition, will know well what decisions they 
have made to get there.  And if they can live with the choices they have 
made, then I'm happy for them.


73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com

On 16-Jan-18 4:09 PM, Peter Sundberg wrote:

So..

- Station A in North America is calling CQ on 1827.0 and is heard by 
Station B in Europe via a webSDR located 50 km away from Station A in 
North America.


- Station B in Europe is calling Station A - who is listening via a 
webSDR in Europe located 50 km away from Station B


- Both stations exchange 599+ reports and greetings for a fine QSO.

Wow, their signal made it 50 km via the airwaves at both ends and was 
then "carried" across the world via the Internet.


What a wonderful Top Band QSO, carried out "the modern way", embracing 
new technology.


OMG.

73
Peter SM2CEW



At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish in 
the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. And 
I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the world 
would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out of it 
was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!



So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
Radio geeks think.



Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Peter Sundberg]

So..

- Station A in North America is calling CQ on 1827.0 and is heard by 
Station B in Europe via a webSDR located 50 km away from Station A in 
North America.


- Station B in Europe is calling Station A - who is listening via a 
webSDR in Europe located 50 km away from Station B


- Both stations exchange 599+ reports and greetings for a fine QSO.

Wow, their signal made it 50 km via the airwaves at both ends and was 
then "carried" across the world via the Internet.


What a wonderful Top Band QSO, carried out "the modern way", 
embracing new technology.


OMG.

73
Peter SM2CEW



At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish 
in the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. 
And I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the 
world would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out 
of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!



So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
Radio geeks think.



Terry

KI7M

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