Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure
No need for it to be a mystery. The NISTweb site has the WWV, WWVB, and WWVH info is accessible from here: https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations Specific info on WWVB is here: https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwvb Gus Hansen KB0YH On 8/25/2018 8:56 PM, Wes Attaway (N5WA) wrote: Whatever it is, my clocks check it. I know it is not WWL. Maybe it is WWV(B)(xyz) _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure
Whatever it is, my clocks check it. I know it is not WWL. Maybe it is WWV(B)(xyz) --- Wes Attaway (N5WA) (318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LA Computer/Cellphone Forensics AttawayForensics.com --- -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard (Rick) Karlquist Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 4:08 PM To: wesattaway; Don Kirk; jim.t...@telus.net Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure On 8/25/2018 1:59 PM, wesattaway wrote: > Half the clocks in our house check WWW every night. > WWW? More likely they check WWVB. I know mine do. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure
On 8/25/2018 1:59 PM, wesattaway wrote: Half the clocks in our house check WWW every night. WWW? More likely they check WWVB. I know mine do. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure
Half the clocks in our house check WWW every night. ---Wes Attaway (N5WA)(318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LAComputer/Cellphone ForensicsAttawayForensics.com Original message From: Don Kirk Date: 8/25/18 2:55 PM (GMT-06:00) To: jim.t...@telus.net Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure Hi Jim, You said "The accuracy of both devices far exceeds my needs", but let me play the devils advocate. Unless you send those devices into an accredited lab on a regular basis, you can't say they are accurate (unless you can check them from home on a regular basis directly against a frequency standard that's traceable directly back to NIST which would be WWV, WWVH, WWVB, etc.). I'm sure this sounds like a radical viewpoint, but just wanted to play the devils advocate on this one. P.S. NIST did publish a document about GPSDO traceability and here is the URL to it which is good reading and it partially supports some of my comments, but not totally. https://ws680.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=842479 Don (wd8dsb) On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 12:33 PM Jim Thomson wrote: > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:49:49 -0400 > From: "Paul Christensen" > To: > Subject: Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure > > that > reasonably cover North America; (2) In the U.S., AM broadcast stations are > required to maintain +/- 20 Hz carrier stability (73.1545). However, > nearly > all modern BC transmitters can easily meet 2 Hz, and some are now > phase-locked to a precision standard. > > Most modern amateur gear covers the MW band. One could sample several AMBC > stations, throw out the outliers, then calculate a geometric mean and > attain > a very accurate reference. Incidentally, some legacy ham-band-only gear > never did cover WWV -- or if it did, it was received by a different band > mixing scheme, then a pre-selector is peaked for resonance. > > In the shack, I use a GPSDO with a distribution amp that locks several > transceivers and some test equipment. A surplus $100 USD rubidium standard > is Velcro-strapped to my HP frequency counter. It comes up to temperature > and locks within 5 minutes of powering. The accuracy of both devices far > exceeds my needs. > > Paul, W9AC > > ## After very carefully aligning the .25 ppm TCXO in both my yaesu > MK-Vs... > using the 20 mhz wwv, I tuned across the entire AM 540-1710 khz > band, and only found > ONE station that was dead on freq, and that was CBC on 690 khz, in > Vancouver BC. > The rest were several hz too high..or several hz too low. Some were > as much as 20 hz off freq. > > ## Even if you could find just one AM broadcaster that was dead on > freq, the 540-1710 band is > much too low to align a TCXO. If say you were off by 1 hz at 1000 > khz, you would be off 10 hz > at 10 mhz..and 30 hz at 30 mhz, etc. And with no high freq WWV to > compare to, you would have no > clue as to which of the myriad of 540-1710 AM broadcast stations is > actually anywhere close to being on freq. > > ## CHU broadcasts on just 3.33 mhz, 7.85 mhz..and 14.67 mhz. All 3 > are pretty weak here on the west coast. > WWV is instead used here on the west coast, as CHU is typ too > unreliable. > The price tag on all this surplus GPSDO / rubidium gear will > skyrocket if and when WWV is shut down. > I can not see WWVB being shut down at all, too many consumer devices > rely on it. > > Jim VE7RF > > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure
Hi Jim, You said "The accuracy of both devices far exceeds my needs", but let me play the devils advocate. Unless you send those devices into an accredited lab on a regular basis, you can't say they are accurate (unless you can check them from home on a regular basis directly against a frequency standard that's traceable directly back to NIST which would be WWV, WWVH, WWVB, etc.). I'm sure this sounds like a radical viewpoint, but just wanted to play the devils advocate on this one. P.S. NIST did publish a document about GPSDO traceability and here is the URL to it which is good reading and it partially supports some of my comments, but not totally. https://ws680.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=842479 Don (wd8dsb) On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 12:33 PM Jim Thomson wrote: > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:49:49 -0400 > From: "Paul Christensen" > To: > Subject: Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure > > that > reasonably cover North America; (2) In the U.S., AM broadcast stations are > required to maintain +/- 20 Hz carrier stability (73.1545). However, > nearly > all modern BC transmitters can easily meet 2 Hz, and some are now > phase-locked to a precision standard. > > Most modern amateur gear covers the MW band. One could sample several AMBC > stations, throw out the outliers, then calculate a geometric mean and > attain > a very accurate reference. Incidentally, some legacy ham-band-only gear > never did cover WWV -- or if it did, it was received by a different band > mixing scheme, then a pre-selector is peaked for resonance. > > In the shack, I use a GPSDO with a distribution amp that locks several > transceivers and some test equipment. A surplus $100 USD rubidium standard > is Velcro-strapped to my HP frequency counter. It comes up to temperature > and locks within 5 minutes of powering. The accuracy of both devices far > exceeds my needs. > > Paul, W9AC > > ## After very carefully aligning the .25 ppm TCXO in both my yaesu > MK-Vs... > using the 20 mhz wwv, I tuned across the entire AM 540-1710 khz > band, and only found > ONE station that was dead on freq, and that was CBC on 690 khz, in > Vancouver BC. > The rest were several hz too high..or several hz too low. Some were > as much as 20 hz off freq. > > ## Even if you could find just one AM broadcaster that was dead on > freq, the 540-1710 band is > much too low to align a TCXO. If say you were off by 1 hz at 1000 > khz, you would be off 10 hz > at 10 mhz..and 30 hz at 30 mhz, etc. And with no high freq WWV to > compare to, you would have no > clue as to which of the myriad of 540-1710 AM broadcast stations is > actually anywhere close to being on freq. > > ## CHU broadcasts on just 3.33 mhz, 7.85 mhz..and 14.67 mhz. All 3 > are pretty weak here on the west coast. > WWV is instead used here on the west coast, as CHU is typ too > unreliable. > The price tag on all this surplus GPSDO / rubidium gear will > skyrocket if and when WWV is shut down. > I can not see WWVB being shut down at all, too many consumer devices > rely on it. > > Jim VE7RF > > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure
Yes, we all pretty much agree it would be in the best interest of the majority to keep it active. However, spend a moment of think of how this came about. Young, millennial staff members are following the mandate to find available budget money to match a proposed administration budget. Millennials - therein lies the problem. They are not technically conversant, live in today's world of handheld real-time communication, have never had much, if any, science education, and probably never staffed the WWV idea with the various Federal communications folks. The answer - correspond or call your Representative and Senators to register an objection. Yes, most of them won't have a clue, but you can believe they'll find out when the tally adds up. Ham, KB4BR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Thomson Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 12:33 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:49:49 -0400 From: "Paul Christensen" To: Subject: Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:49:49 -0400 From: "Paul Christensen" To: Subject: Re: Topband: OT - US Hams, WWV closure http://www.contesting.com/_topband
