Re: Topband: Adding 80 m to 160 m quarterwave vertical

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 4/5/2021 8:48 PM, Lloyd - N9LB wrote:

Why not remove the 80m wire and simply run the entire 30m tall mast (with 
additional top hat) on 80m as a half-wave vertical?
A "legal Limit" antenna tuner should handle it, or build your own 80m antenna 
matching unit.



I did exactly what you describe with my 27m (90 ft) mast.
It apparently worked fine (I didn't have another antenna
to compare it to.)  I built a homebrew tuner.
I don't know of a commercial one that could handle the
high voltages.  I later decided this was too much
trouble and installed a relay at the 60 foot level that
allowed it to run as a conventional vertical on 80 when
the relay was open.

73
Rick N6RK
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Topband: W1BB (Tree)

[lstoskopf]

Tree

The comment on 150M was a typo that 81 year old eyes didn't pick up.  Sorry.

Way back in the mid 60's an oil company put up a 400 ft radio tower on a hill 
in my Dad's pasture in central Kansas.  I had Dad put in the lease that I could 
put wire radio antennas on it and use the cheap tin building for my rig.  So I 
had the guy that erected it up put a triangle of open wire up to the 240 ft 
level as a feeder for 3 wires coming back down.  I had a Hallicrafters S40B RX 
and an ARC-5 modified TX and no heat.  I was in college and med school most of 
the time so it got little use.  I did work VK early in the morning during the 
summer wheat harvest period when I was home.  Thought that was a big deal.

Anyway, the pipe they used to build the tower was used, corroded tubing.  My 
friend, who changed the light bulbs, a minister who did that on the side for 
some extra cash, would climb it just before the first freeze with an ice pick 
to open the rust spots so the water that had seeped into the tubing wouldn't 
freeze and bring the tower down.  I think he prayed a lot.  It did come down in 
a winter wind storm one winter  so that was that.  I had a lot of fun...as 
W0PSF...but never did anything big.  But while W1BB was on a cruise across the 
Atlantic with his wife I operated a bit every night and got a neat report from 
him when he got back.  Apparently he found the ship noise to be quite bad. And 
was not allowed to transmit.

I  learned about the noise later.  My wife and I took a 100 passenger cruise 
from Tahiti to Mangreva to Pitcairn, on the Ducie and then Easter Island.  I 
took two TS-480s and a 15 meter vertical.  Only made about 100 contacts from 
each on 15 due to the time limit and daytime only.  I tried to string up a wire 
while at sea, but the ship noise on 160 was too intense so gave that up.  
Interestingly, the radio operator was a Ham on his last trip as the rules on 
needing a radio op on those ships changed so he was out of a job.  Satellites 
took over.

We never were on land at night, but 160 would have been a fun try.

N0UU
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Re: Topband: Adding 80 m to 160 m quarterwave vertical

[Lloyd - N9LB]

Why not remove the 80m wire and simply run the entire 30m tall mast (with 
additional top hat) on 80m as a half-wave vertical?
A "legal Limit" antenna tuner should handle it, or build your own 80m antenna 
matching unit.

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+lloydberg=tds@contesting.com] On 
Behalf Of List Mail
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 10:11 PM
To: Topband 
Subject: Topband: Adding 80 m to 160 m quarterwave vertical

I have up and operational a vertical for 160 m. It’s about 30 m of 250 mm 
triangular mast (Deeco) topped by about 5 m of 50 mm aluminium mast with a 
small top hat to resonate around 1840 kHz. Fed directly above the base 
insulator, it presents a reasonable match across the band, with about 32 ohms 
at resonance.
I also want to operate 80 m DX. So far, I’ve been experimenting with a wire, 
offset by 1 metre, about 20.2 m long, parallel to the mast. I’ve tried 
grounding the 160 m mast and feeding the wire separately, floating the mast and 
feeding separately, various L-matches, and now feeding in parallel with the 
main mast with no matching. The latter gives me a reasonable match on the CW 
end of the band, and it doesn’t affect the 160 m operation.
The complicating factor is the approximately halfwave antenna on 80 m in close 
proximity to the wire.
Previously, I had a mast about 22 m high, fed through a series capacitor for 80 
m, with an offset wire going up to a top hat at the top of the mast for 160 m. 
That seemed to work ok. Now I have the reverse situation.
I made a couple of QSO on the 80 m DX window last week, with the offset wire 
about 19 m long, and it seemed to work ok. But my interest is not SSB DX. 
Adding lumped constants to try and match that wire on the CW end of the band 
didn’t work as expected, i.e., some base loading to bring down the resonant 
frequency, presumably due to the effect of the tower, grounded or floating. I 
lengthened the wire to resonate on the lower end of 80 m and made a few CW QSO, 
but either it’s performance or the propagation was disappointing.
After all that, I’m getting a bit lost. What arrangements have been 
successfully used by others? Again, I have a near-enough to quarter wave 
base-insulated 160 m vertical, and want to operate also on 80 m CW, with a 
secondary priority of SSB DX Window.
73, Luke VK3HJ.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: Topband: VE6WZ remote construction video

[Jim Brown]

On 4/5/2021 4:47 PM, VE6WZ_Steve wrote:

The video may be of interest to some here on the TB reflector since I show how 
I designed and built the station from the very beginning.
There are many photos and explanations of the 160m TX array, and my 160m RX 
system as well as station control and switching.


I began following Steve's progress in building his remote station 
several years ago. His is another fine piece of both engineering and 
project management. Everything from scouring the contryside for a 
suitable piece of land, acquiring it, building a road into it and up to 
the station, fencing and securing it, and THEN building a station of any 
ham's wildest dreams!  Congrats Steve!


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV

[n4is]

You guys have no idea how many, not hours., days not month .. years of hard
work George put in this project. It is a huge invention , a frontend to
RX/TX CW 1824 and RXTX FT8 on 1840 at the same time using one TX antenna one
KW amplifier and two radios.

The RIB is not a plug and play unit, it needs to be installed, connected
adjusted, erect antennas, all tasks like a regular DX expedition. Refuel
every hour.  Etc.

What it's save is people on the island, eating , sleeping, etc , the
operators can stay on the boat or in the island,. Don't expect a dish with
broadband internet to allow an intercontinental remote operation. RIB is not
an appliance. 

People risk their lives on small boats every day landing to operate the
radios. Think about it. RIB is very  far from a remote station. It is a
remote control limited to 900 MHz link and few miles away in the ocean. Try
to make the boat stay put and not moving to aim the 900 MHz yagi from the
boat to land.

That is one of George's finest invention. Thank you so much George. 

73's
JC
N4IS



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Topband: Adding 80 m to 160 m quarterwave vertical

[List Mail]

I have up and operational a vertical for 160 m. It’s about 30 m of 250 mm 
triangular mast (Deeco) topped by about 5 m of 50 mm aluminium mast with a 
small top hat to resonate around 1840 kHz. Fed directly above the base 
insulator, it presents a reasonable match across the band, with about 32 ohms 
at resonance.
I also want to operate 80 m DX. So far, I’ve been experimenting with a wire, 
offset by 1 metre, about 20.2 m long, parallel to the mast. I’ve tried 
grounding the 160 m mast and feeding the wire separately, floating the mast and 
feeding separately, various L-matches, and now feeding in parallel with the 
main mast with no matching. The latter gives me a reasonable match on the CW 
end of the band, and it doesn’t affect the 160 m operation.
The complicating factor is the approximately halfwave antenna on 80 m in close 
proximity to the wire.
Previously, I had a mast about 22 m high, fed through a series capacitor for 80 
m, with an offset wire going up to a top hat at the top of the mast for 160 m. 
That seemed to work ok. Now I have the reverse situation.
I made a couple of QSO on the 80 m DX window last week, with the offset wire 
about 19 m long, and it seemed to work ok. But my interest is not SSB DX. 
Adding lumped constants to try and match that wire on the CW end of the band 
didn’t work as expected, i.e., some base loading to bring down the resonant 
frequency, presumably due to the effect of the tower, grounded or floating. I 
lengthened the wire to resonate on the lower end of 80 m and made a few CW QSO, 
but either it’s performance or the propagation was disappointing.
After all that, I’m getting a bit lost. What arrangements have been 
successfully used by others? Again, I have a near-enough to quarter wave 
base-insulated 160 m vertical, and want to operate also on 80 m CW, with a 
secondary priority of SSB DX Window.
73, Luke VK3HJ.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV

[Dino Darling]

They weren't slow to screw up the Field Day rules two years in a row. :-)


Subject: Re: Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV...

What will the ARRL think of this?  They are slow to change with the times.

W0MU

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Topband: VE6WZ remote construction video

[VE6WZ_Steve]

I was honoured to be one of 6 asked to present a slideshow to the Contest Club 
of Ontario 2021 Midwinter Zoom virtual meeting.
Today I made a few edits and uploaded the presentation to my YouTube channel.

The video may be of interest to some here on the TB reflector since I show how 
I designed and built the station from the very beginning.
There are many photos and explanations of the 160m TX array, and my 160m RX 
system as well as station control and switching.

(The video quality is less than ideal since this was recorded live over Zoom)

Video link here: https://youtu.be/94X5zOEAW2g 

73, de steve ve6wz
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Re: Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV

[Chris G3SVL]

I was there that 2019 Visalia evening at WB6RSE's Topband dinner and 
George's presentation on concurrent CW / FT8 on 160m blew me away too.


73 Chris, G3SVL


On 05/04/2021 19:55, Jim Brown wrote:
At the most recent Visalia in 2019 (and later at Dayton, I think), 
George presented two feats of engineering excellence that blew me 
away. First, his "Radio In A Box" has the potential to revolutionize 
DXpeditioning to islands, drastically reducing their cost, the number 
of hams needed, man-hours spent on the island, and the resulting 
impact on the island's natural state. All of this has the potential to 
make it far easier to obtain permissions from authorities.


Second, his observations that during DXpeditions, topband openings 
tend to occur on one night out of a couple of weeks, and that since CW 
and FT8 are the dominant modes for weak signal work, both need to 
active whenever there is the likelihood of propagation (that is, 
between the daylight sides of the terminator), led him to devise a 
system to achieve that.


Both of these achievements are described on the qrz page for C6AGU. If 
you've missed them up to now, by all means check it out!


73, Jim K9YC
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.

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Re: Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV

[GEORGE WALLNER]

Here is the clarification of the new DXCC rules relating to this:

The DXCCRules   changes, which affect 
Section I, subsections 8 and 9, explain andextend how contacts with remotely 
controlled stations now may be applied towardthe DXCC award. According to 
ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, the changes aresubtle but significant. The 
modified rules make clear that contacts withlegally licensed, land-based, 
remotely controlled stations count for DXCC, butthe control point -- the 
operator's location -- of a remotely controlledstation no longer has to be 
land based; the operator can be literally anywhere.


73,
George,
AA7JV/C6AGUA

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:39:13 -0400
 "Joe Subich, W4TV"  wrote:


> What will the ARRL think of this?

It's no different that the current system of "rent-a-remote" that
allows the well healed to chase propagation.

As long as the person/group "placing the boxes" has the necessary
licenses and landing permits consistent with the current rules, I
do not see ARRL refusing credit for shipboard (or even home)
operation of "DXPedition in a box" stations.  Even "at the dock"
operations are currently accepted if the antennas are located
on the wharf (and the necessary license/landing permission have
been obtained).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-04-05 3:15 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:

Elon Musks' starband internet could open up the entire world to the internet 
and change DXpeditions forever.  And a few will think it is the end of the 
world kinda like that digital mode that has yet to kill off the hobby.

What will the ARRL think of this?  They are slow to change with the times.  I 
would expect push back especially by those that are already on the top and do 
not want other to reach that plateau.

W0MU

On 4/5/2021 12:55 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

At the most recent Visalia in 2019 (and later at Dayton, I think), George presented two 
feats of engineering excellence that blew me away. First, his "Radio In A Box" 
has the potential to revolutionize DXpeditioning to islands, drastically reducing their 
cost, the number of hams needed, man-hours spent on the island, and the resulting impact 
on the island's natural state. All of this has the potential to make it far easier to 
obtain permissions from authorities.

Second, his observations that during DXpeditions, topband openings tend to 
occur on one night out of a couple of weeks, and that since CW and FT8 are the 
dominant modes for weak signal work, both need to active whenever there is the 
likelihood of propagation (that is, between the daylight sides of the 
terminator), led him to devise a system to achieve that.

Both of these achievements are described on the qrz page for C6AGU. If you've 
missed them up to now, by all means check it out!

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> What will the ARRL think of this?

It's no different that the current system of "rent-a-remote" that
allows the well healed to chase propagation.

As long as the person/group "placing the boxes" has the necessary
licenses and landing permits consistent with the current rules, I
do not see ARRL refusing credit for shipboard (or even home)
operation of "DXPedition in a box" stations.  Even "at the dock"
operations are currently accepted if the antennas are located
on the wharf (and the necessary license/landing permission have
been obtained).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-04-05 3:15 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
Elon Musks' starband internet could open up the entire world to the 
internet and change DXpeditions forever.  And a few will think it is the 
end of the world kinda like that digital mode that has yet to kill off 
the hobby.


What will the ARRL think of this?  They are slow to change with the 
times.  I would expect push back especially by those that are already on 
the top and do not want other to reach that plateau.


W0MU

On 4/5/2021 12:55 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
At the most recent Visalia in 2019 (and later at Dayton, I think), 
George presented two feats of engineering excellence that blew me 
away. First, his "Radio In A Box" has the potential to revolutionize 
DXpeditioning to islands, drastically reducing their cost, the number 
of hams needed, man-hours spent on the island, and the resulting 
impact on the island's natural state. All of this has the potential to 
make it far easier to obtain permissions from authorities.


Second, his observations that during DXpeditions, topband openings 
tend to occur on one night out of a couple of weeks, and that since CW 
and FT8 are the dominant modes for weak signal work, both need to 
active whenever there is the likelihood of propagation (that is, 
between the daylight sides of the terminator), led him to devise a 
system to achieve that.


Both of these achievements are described on the qrz page for C6AGU. If 
you've missed them up to now, by all means check it out!


73, Jim K9YC



_
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Re: Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Elon Musks' starband internet could open up the entire world to the 
internet and change DXpeditions forever.  And a few will think it is the 
end of the world kinda like that digital mode that has yet to kill off 
the hobby.


What will the ARRL think of this?  They are slow to change with the 
times.  I would expect push back especially by those that are already on 
the top and do not want other to reach that plateau.


W0MU

On 4/5/2021 12:55 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
At the most recent Visalia in 2019 (and later at Dayton, I think), 
George presented two feats of engineering excellence that blew me 
away. First, his "Radio In A Box" has the potential to revolutionize 
DXpeditioning to islands, drastically reducing their cost, the number 
of hams needed, man-hours spent on the island, and the resulting 
impact on the island's natural state. All of this has the potential to 
make it far easier to obtain permissions from authorities.


Second, his observations that during DXpeditions, topband openings 
tend to occur on one night out of a couple of weeks, and that since CW 
and FT8 are the dominant modes for weak signal work, both need to 
active whenever there is the likelihood of propagation (that is, 
between the daylight sides of the terminator), led him to devise a 
system to achieve that.


Both of these achievements are described on the qrz page for C6AGU. If 
you've missed them up to now, by all means check it out!


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV

[Jeff]

Great info on Radio In A Box.

How do you think DXCC will view this ?

Jeff Reynolds NE0DX

Jim Brown wrote:
At the most recent Visalia in 2019 (and later at Dayton, I think), George 
presented two feats of engineering excellence that blew me away. First, his 
"Radio In A Box" has the potential to revolutionize DXpeditioning to islands, 
drastically reducing their cost, the number of hams needed, man-hours spent on 
the island, and the resulting impact on the island's natural state. All of 
this has the potential to make it far easier to obtain permissions from 
authorities.


Second, his observations that during DXpeditions, topband openings tend to 
occur on one night out of a couple of weeks, and that since CW and FT8 are the 
dominant modes for weak signal work, both need to active whenever there is the 
likelihood of propagation (that is, between the daylight sides of the 
terminator), led him to devise a system to achieve that.


Both of these achievements are described on the qrz page for C6AGU. If you've 
missed them up to now, by all means check it out!


73, Jim K9YC
_
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Topband: Great Engineering by AA7JV

[Jim Brown]

At the most recent Visalia in 2019 (and later at Dayton, I think), 
George presented two feats of engineering excellence that blew me away. 
First, his "Radio In A Box" has the potential to revolutionize 
DXpeditioning to islands, drastically reducing their cost, the number of 
hams needed, man-hours spent on the island, and the resulting impact on 
the island's natural state. All of this has the potential to make it far 
easier to obtain permissions from authorities.


Second, his observations that during DXpeditions, topband openings tend 
to occur on one night out of a couple of weeks, and that since CW and 
FT8 are the dominant modes for weak signal work, both need to active 
whenever there is the likelihood of propagation (that is, between the 
daylight sides of the terminator), led him to devise a system to achieve 
that.


Both of these achievements are described on the qrz page for C6AGU. If 
you've missed them up to now, by all means check it out!


73, Jim K9YC
_
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Re: Topband: I4EAT Fausto SK

[David Olean]

Very sad to hear of Fausto's passing.  I worked I4EAT on the VHF bands, 
My first QSO with him was in early 1979 on 144 MHz moonbounce. We had 
many QSOs on 144 and also 50 MHz E Skip.   I treasure those early 144 
MHz EME QSOs.  Fausto will be dearly missed but not forgotten.


Dave K1WHS



  On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 01:51:57 PM EDT, Paolo Zaffi 
 wrote:
  
  Guys,


with great sadness I must inform you that Fausto I4EAT passed away today
due to COVID.  He was a good friend and great DX'er not only on low
bands but also on VHF.

We will miss him.

Regards.

Paolo I4EWH


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Re: Topband: I4EAT Fausto SK

[Ken Byers]

 OM Paolo,

Thank you for sharing the sad news about Fausto.

He was quite an accomplished DX'er (huge numbers) who held a similar call to 
mine.

I treasure the time in 2013 when I got to spend the day with you, I4EAT, and 
T77C in Ravenna and San Marino. One of my favorite ham memories.

73,

Ken, K4TEA
 On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 01:51:57 PM EDT, Paolo Zaffi  
wrote:  
 
 Guys,

with great sadness I must inform you that Fausto I4EAT passed away today 
due to COVID.  He was a good friend and great DX'er not only on low 
bands but also on VHF.

We will miss him.

Regards.

Paolo I4EWH


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Re: Topband: W1BB

[Tree]

Thanks for sharing.

I looked at this sentence and initially thought it was a typo:

"I had worked him on 150 many times from Kansas."

However, perhaps you meant to say that.  Back in the 1960's and even during
part of the 70's, we mostly scrunched up between 1975 and 2000 as that was
where most of us could run the highest power.  Describing the band as 150
meters is certainly more accurate than calling it 160 meters.

Just curious if the band was commonly referred to as 150 meters back then?
Perhaps it was like the 3.5 MHz band which has two names.

Tree N6TR

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 2:16 PM  wrote:

> Many years ago I was in Boston for a medical meeting.  Took some time off
> and visited Stu.
>
> In those days no phones with cameras and didn't take a camera so only
> memories.
>
> I had worked him on 150 many times from Kansas.  I still have a QSL from
> that and a SWL  report from his ship with his 2nd wife in the Atlantic.
> The card in the picture.
>
> He gave me a tour of his attic shack.  Turned on the old spark gap rig and
> let me send a bit.  Rattled the ceiling light.
>
> Then we went out to the water tower where he did his major DX ops.  Just
> before that he was out operating one night.  Someone came by and wired the
> padlock.  He ended up on CW contacting someone in  (I think) England in the
> early morning and had them call the Winthrop police to get him out.  He got
> quite a laugh while telling that.  I think he had a rig down in the yacht
> club, but we didn't make that.
>
> He had had a bought of depression just before I was there and we had a
> chat about that.
>
> Great guy, always seemed to be in a suit.  Especially for his weekly trips
> to Boston for a coffee group.
>
> I've told some of this before, but maybe the new guys care.  I also have a
> small pile of 160 newsletters...multicolor mimeo and always a personal note.
>
> N0UU
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>
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