Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
On 3/25/2022 11:43 AM, Charlie wrote: Sorry folks, I don't totally agree. Granted, this may be a bit of semantics. But, for the last 3 or 4 years we've used what's known as a Double L on 160 at PJ4K. The top's about 130 feet with the vertical section running down to 30 feet. The feed points at about 85 feet which is a bit of a PITA for making measurements. Is half of this bent 1/2-wave dipole the great ground system? You guys can argue the point. Hi Charlie, No, half of your antenna is not a ground system -- they're only needed for end-fed antennas. You're describing a very different antenna from the end-fed vertical that 99% of topbanders use -- it's center-fed, with top and bottom loading. The best commercial all-band verticals are loaded center-fed; W6GJB and I have built center-fed 80M verticals that are top and bottom loaded for Field Day and portable CQP and 7QP county expeditions. Another point. The importance of radial systems is obvious for TX efficiency, but where it matters much more is for producing pattern nulls. Nulls are produced by deep cancellation between arrivals at the various elements, which in turn depends strongly on symmetry between the elements, as well as their phase and geometric relationships. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Excellent advice! I'll take the 7300 and a wire to have a listen. I should have thought of it. The property is long and narrow, broadside to east and west. Dino - KX6D From: Topband on behalf of Charlie Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 11:49:31 AM To: topband@contesting.com ; j...@audiosystemsgroup.com ; Jim Brown Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? Sorry, typo. Putting up antennas at PJ4K. On March 25, 2022 2:43:04 PM AST, Charlie wrote: >Sorry folks, I don't totally agree. Granted, this may be a bit of semantics. >But, for the last 3 or 4 years we've used what's known as a Double L on 160 >at PJ4K. The top's about 130 feet with the vertical section running down to >30 feet. The feed points at about 85 feet which is a bit of a PITA for making >measurements. Is half of this bent 1/2-wave dipole the great ground system? >You guys can argue the point. > >However, this is a very effective transmitting antenna. So good, in fact, >that we just finished phasing a second identical Double L with the first one. > >I do agree that you can't work 'em without hearing them. Hence the reason for >our pair of w1fv circular arrays. > >73 Charlie, k1xx current putting up antennas at PJ4A > > >On March 25, 2022 2:16:09 PM AST, Jim Brown wrote: >>YES! This is VERY important advice, trumps all else. >> >>And I echo those who have advised to build one vertical radiator with an >>excellent radial system, and the best RX antenna system that will fit on >>your property. Most of the arrays others have suggested are not >>practical on five acres, if for no other reason that a GREAT radial >>system for each element is critical. >> >>73, Jim K9YC >> >>On 3/25/2022 10:19 AM, Mike Waters wrote: >>> This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels at >>> various times and on different days. >>> >>> 73 Mike >>> W0BTU >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber wrote: >>> ... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with a mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We have already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 miles away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar power equipment. >>> _ >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector >> >>_ >>Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector >_ >Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Sorry, typo. Putting up antennas at PJ4K. On March 25, 2022 2:43:04 PM AST, Charlie wrote: >Sorry folks, I don't totally agree. Granted, this may be a bit of semantics. >But, for the last 3 or 4 years we've used what's known as a Double L on 160 >at PJ4K. The top's about 130 feet with the vertical section running down to >30 feet. The feed points at about 85 feet which is a bit of a PITA for making >measurements. Is half of this bent 1/2-wave dipole the great ground system? >You guys can argue the point. > >However, this is a very effective transmitting antenna. So good, in fact, >that we just finished phasing a second identical Double L with the first one. > >I do agree that you can't work 'em without hearing them. Hence the reason for >our pair of w1fv circular arrays. > >73 Charlie, k1xx current putting up antennas at PJ4A > > >On March 25, 2022 2:16:09 PM AST, Jim Brown wrote: >>YES! This is VERY important advice, trumps all else. >> >>And I echo those who have advised to build one vertical radiator with an >>excellent radial system, and the best RX antenna system that will fit on >>your property. Most of the arrays others have suggested are not >>practical on five acres, if for no other reason that a GREAT radial >>system for each element is critical. >> >>73, Jim K9YC >> >>On 3/25/2022 10:19 AM, Mike Waters wrote: >>> This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels at >>> various times and on different days. >>> >>> 73 Mike >>> W0BTU >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber wrote: >>> ... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with a mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We have already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 miles away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar power equipment. >>> _ >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector >> >>_ >>Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector >_ >Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
I asked about the land dimensions and orientation mostly for determining what his receiving antenna options are. 73 Mike W0BTU On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 1:43 PM Charlie wrote: > Sorry folks, I don't totally agree. Granted, this may be a bit of > semantics. But, for the last 3 or 4 years we've used what's known as a > Double L on 160 at PJ4K. The top's about 130 feet with the vertical > section running down to 30 feet. The feed points at about 85 feet which is > a bit of a PITA for making measurements. Is half of this bent 1/2-wave > dipole the great ground system? You guys can argue the point. > > However, this is a very effective transmitting antenna. So good, in fact, > that we just finished phasing a second identical Double L with the first > one. > > I do agree that you can't work 'em without hearing them. Hence the reason > for our pair of w1fv circular arrays. > > 73 Charlie, k1xx current putting up antennas at PJ4A > > > On March 25, 2022 2:16:09 PM AST, Jim Brown > wrote: > >YES! This is VERY important advice, trumps all else. > > > >And I echo those who have advised to build one vertical radiator with an > >excellent radial system, and the best RX antenna system that will fit on > >your property. Most of the arrays others have suggested are not > >practical on five acres, if for no other reason that a GREAT radial > >system for each element is critical. > > > >73, Jim K9YC > > > >On 3/25/2022 10:19 AM, Mike Waters wrote: > >> This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels > at > >> various times and on different days. > >> > >> 73 Mike > >> W0BTU > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber > wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> ... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there > with a > >>> mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We > have > >>> already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is > >>> unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 > miles > >>> away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. > >>> > >>> Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause > horrendous > >>> amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to > >>> note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar > power > >>> equipment. > >>> > >> _ > >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > >_ > >Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Sorry folks, I don't totally agree. Granted, this may be a bit of semantics. But, for the last 3 or 4 years we've used what's known as a Double L on 160 at PJ4K. The top's about 130 feet with the vertical section running down to 30 feet. The feed points at about 85 feet which is a bit of a PITA for making measurements. Is half of this bent 1/2-wave dipole the great ground system? You guys can argue the point. However, this is a very effective transmitting antenna. So good, in fact, that we just finished phasing a second identical Double L with the first one. I do agree that you can't work 'em without hearing them. Hence the reason for our pair of w1fv circular arrays. 73 Charlie, k1xx current putting up antennas at PJ4A On March 25, 2022 2:16:09 PM AST, Jim Brown wrote: >YES! This is VERY important advice, trumps all else. > >And I echo those who have advised to build one vertical radiator with an >excellent radial system, and the best RX antenna system that will fit on >your property. Most of the arrays others have suggested are not >practical on five acres, if for no other reason that a GREAT radial >system for each element is critical. > >73, Jim K9YC > >On 3/25/2022 10:19 AM, Mike Waters wrote: >> This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels at >> various times and on different days. >> >> 73 Mike >> W0BTU >> >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber wrote: >> >>> >>> ... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with a >>> mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We have >>> already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is >>> unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 miles >>> away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. >>> >>> Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous >>> amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to >>> note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar power >>> equipment. >>> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > >_ >Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
This begs the question, What is the shape and orientation of this 5 acres? 73 Mike W0BTU On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 1:16 PM Jim Brown wrote: > YES! This is VERY important advice, trumps all else. > > And I echo those who have advised to build one vertical radiator with an > excellent radial system, and the best RX antenna system that will fit on > your property. Most of the arrays others have suggested are not > practical on five acres, if for no other reason that a GREAT radial > system for each element is critical. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > On 3/25/2022 10:19 AM, Mike Waters wrote: > > This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels at > > various times and on different days. > > > > 73 Mike > > W0BTU > > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber > wrote: > > > >> > >> ... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with > a > >> mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We have > >> already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is > >> unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 > miles > >> away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. > >> > >> Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous > >> amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to > >> note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar > power > >> equipment. > >> > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
YES! This is VERY important advice, trumps all else. And I echo those who have advised to build one vertical radiator with an excellent radial system, and the best RX antenna system that will fit on your property. Most of the arrays others have suggested are not practical on five acres, if for no other reason that a GREAT radial system for each element is critical. 73, Jim K9YC On 3/25/2022 10:19 AM, Mike Waters wrote: This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels at various times and on different days. 73 Mike W0BTU On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber wrote: ... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with a mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We have already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 miles away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar power equipment. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
I actually got permission from the seller to go out there, set up an antenna, and operate a 160 contest before making and offer. The place worked great. I committed. Mark N5OT On 3/25/2022 12:19 PM, Mike Waters wrote: This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels at various times and on different days. 73 Mike W0BTU On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber wrote: ... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with a mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We have already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 miles away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar power equipment. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels at various times and on different days. 73 Mike W0BTU On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber wrote: > > ... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with a > mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We have > already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is > unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 miles > away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. > > Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous > amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to > note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar power > equipment. > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?
Hi Dino, Regardless of what antenna you ultimately decide to build, before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with a mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is. We have already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 miles away. LED lighting is a well known source of QRM. Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous amounts of QRM which can render top band useless. It is interesting to note that there are no FCC spurious emissions requirements for solar power equipment. Good luck and hope to see you on top band with a big signal. 73, Fred, K9VV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 231, Issue 14
I will be very active on the Top band during contest. NA condition is good around 02:00 - 04:00 GMT 73! Mamuka, 4L2M On Thursday, March 24, 2022, 08:00:53 PM GMT+4, topband-requ...@contesting.com wrote: Send Topband mailing list submissions to topband@contesting.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to topband-requ...@contesting.com You can reach the person managing the list at topband-ow...@contesting.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..." Today's Topics: 1. High winds flapping the L/FCP (Guy Olinger K2AV) 2. What antenna would you build? (Dino Darling) 3. Re: What antenna would you build? (Tim Duffy) 4. What antenna would you build? (Rob Atkinson) 5. Re: What antenna would you build? (Jon Zaimes, AA1K) 6. Re: What antenna would you build? (Mike VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca) 7. Re: What antenna would you build? (Tree) 8. Re: What antenna would you build? (w...@w5zn.org) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 23:48:26 -0400 From: Guy Olinger K2AV To: topband Subject: Topband: High winds flapping the L/FCP Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Had a very gusty March 7 here in eastern North Carolina blowing the L/FCP all over. Did some 160m R,X,SWR scans to see the electrical result of that, recording them to graphical format. Was not expecting what I got. Would you have guessed that there is a way for the wind to wobble an antenna wire, so that the feed X would wobble, the feed SWR wobble worse, and the feed R would not? Text and graphics at: k2av.com/Snips.20220323.html Snips are a new format on k2av.com so I can post to list-servers using short messages with a link without loading the list with illustrations or detailed text, and save pix and text in an accessible place where people can get to them without having to dig through archives. Then I can post with careful language, illustrations, keep them indexed and available and *editable* on the web site for later readers. A short format for curiosities, oddities, new understandings, answers to posts on list-servers, etc. Enjoy. 73, Guy K2AV -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 04:38:39 + From: Dino Darling To: "Topband@contesting.com" Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool. A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the blank)? I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works great. So what would you build? Dino - KX6D -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:13:20 -0400 From: "Tim Duffy" To: "'Dino Darling'" , "'Topband@contesting.com'" Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: <0c2301d83f3d$e17e85f0$a47b91d0$@k3lr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Dino, Take a look in the last three editions of the ON4UN Low Band book - in the Yagi chapter. I have described in detail the 3 element vertical Yagi for 160 meters that I am using. Gives over 5 dB of gain (over a single 1/4 wavelength vertical) and the front to back is over 30 dB at the peak. Four directions. It works good for about 40 KHz of the band (great for DX contests). I do have CW and SSB optimum settings for the parasitic elements. W5ZN, AA1K, K9CT, NR5M and VE3EJ have built this antenna as well. It can work omni as well. Requires one tower 120 feet tall and a LC matching network to step up the 25 ohm feedpoint impedance. It is easy to build and very effective. Twice from K3LR we worked over 100 DXCC in one weekend in the CQWW CW contest - from almost Ohio... It does require five extensive ground radial systems (one under each element). The best DX with this antenna was JT5DX in zone 23 during the CQWW 160 meter contest and this pa
