Re: Topband: Warning: OT!
Jim, I used to go to Crown in Elkart and talk to the (old) owner, I can't recall his name, but this was at least ~35 years ago or more. He would often buy high end audio equipment, try it out, and then sell it. I bought a few things from him. Jim - KR9U -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+jbwolf=comcast@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Clymer Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 4:15 PM To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com Cc: topband Subject: Topband: Warning: OT! I completed a CREI course - BET (Bachelor of Engineering Technology). CREI, stood for Capitol Radio Engineering Institute, a division of McGraw Hill. Before that I received a diploma in Broadcast Engineering from CIE, Cleveland Institute of Electronics. At the time I was working for Crown International, Elkhart, IN. Must have been at least 150 years ago! Jim - WS6X On Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 3:15 PM Jim Brown wrote: > I worked for Pete Johnson as a young EE student. He and Carl wrote the > AM technical Rules after WWII. Carl ran a tech school, as I recall, > CREI (Cleveland Radio Electronics Institute). Pete was a master at > designing AM arrays. > 73, Jim K9YC > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Warning: OT!
On 3/30/2022 4:22 PM, Cecil acuff wrote: Sold a lot of Crown equipment back in the late 70s. So did I -- one of my entry level gigs was selling pro audio to broadcasters, recording studios, and in-house corporate A/V production facilities. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Warning: OT!
Sold a lot of Crown equipment back in the late 70s. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 30, 2022, at 6:20 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > On 3/30/2022 1:14 PM, Jim Clymer wrote: >> At the time I was working for Crown International, Elkhart, IN > > My professional life was in pro audio, so I knew some of the engineers at > Crown. I also owned a CX822/play 4, which I used extensively for mastering > live jazz recordings for NPR. There's still a D60 on the shelf. > > 73, Jim K9YC > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Warning: OT!
On 3/30/2022 1:14 PM, Jim Clymer wrote: At the time I was working for Crown International, Elkhart, IN My professional life was in pro audio, so I knew some of the engineers at Crown. I also owned a CX822/play 4, which I used extensively for mastering live jazz recordings for NPR. There's still a D60 on the shelf. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: History of directional MF antennas
Carl E Smith obit at http://iagenweb.org/boards/wapello/obituaries/index.cgi?read=414496 Have to wonder if the computer still exists. Grant KZ1W On 3/30/2022 14:34, Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote: About 40 years ago I had the opportunity to see the electro -mechanical device used to generate those antenna patterns. I was newly licensed and met Carl Smith's son at a local hamfest, He was selling some insulator clevises. I asked if he had any more. He said they had some more at their facility on Snowville Road in Brecksville ,Ohio. I drove there and picked up the clevises. Carl Smith was there and when he heard that I worked at NASA's Lewis Research Center he wanted to hear about our new CRAY computer and wondered if he could get access to it. Well that was way above my pay grade but I gave him a name to contact. He then showed me the pattern generating device he had built. I was impressed but did not fully appreciate its importance. I had forgotten about that visit till I read this message thread. 73 Pete - N8TR At 01:25 PM 3/30/2022, Grant Saviers wrote: The reference book of patterns for 2 and 3 element verticals is Directional Antennas, by Carl E. Smith, E.E., Cleveland Institute of Radio Electronics, 1946 and is available in pdf from scribd.com It has hundreds of fascinating patterns created by Carl Smith's analog computer. Antenna patterns for every possible need, if you have the space and expertise to work out the feed. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: History of directional MF antennas
About 40 years ago I had the opportunity to see the electro -mechanical device used to generate those antenna patterns. I was newly licensed and met Carl Smith's son at a local hamfest, He was selling some insulator clevises. I asked if he had any more. He said they had some more at their facility on Snowville Road in Brecksville ,Ohio. I drove there and picked up the clevises. Carl Smith was there and when he heard that I worked at NASA's Lewis Research Center he wanted to hear about our new CRAY computer and wondered if he could get access to it. Well that was way above my pay grade but I gave him a name to contact. He then showed me the pattern generating device he had built. I was impressed but did not fully appreciate its importance. I had forgotten about that visit till I read this message thread. 73 Pete - N8TR At 01:25 PM 3/30/2022, Grant Saviers wrote: The reference book of patterns for 2 and 3 element verticals is Directional Antennas, by Carl E. Smith, E.E., Cleveland Institute of Radio Electronics, 1946 and is available in pdf from scribd.com It has hundreds of fascinating patterns created by Carl Smith's analog computer. Antenna patterns for every possible need, if you have the space and expertise to work out the feed. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Warning: OT!
I completed a CREI course - BET (Bachelor of Engineering Technology). CREI, stood for Capitol Radio Engineering Institute, a division of McGraw Hill. Before that I received a diploma in Broadcast Engineering from CIE, Cleveland Institute of Electronics. At the time I was working for Crown International, Elkhart, IN. Must have been at least 150 years ago! Jim - WS6X On Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 3:15 PM Jim Brown wrote: > I worked for Pete Johnson as a young EE student. He and Carl wrote the > AM technical Rules after WWII. Carl ran a tech school, as I recall, CREI > (Cleveland Radio Electronics Institute). Pete was a master at designing > AM arrays. > 73, Jim K9YC > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: History of directional MF antennas
On 3/30/2022 10:25 AM, Grant Saviers wrote: The reference book of patterns for 2 and 3 element verticals is Directional Antennas, by Carl E. Smith, E.E., Cleveland Institute of Radio Electronics, 1946 and is available in pdf from scribd.com I worked for Pete Johnson as a young EE student. He and Carl wrote the AM technical Rules after WWII. Carl ran a tech school, as I recall, CREI (Cleveland Radio Electronics Institute). Pete was a master at designing AM arrays. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: History of directional MF antennas
available here no membership required. https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Technology/Directional-Antenna-Patterns-Smith-2nd-1958.pdf https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Technology/Directional-Antenna-Patterns-Smith-2nd-1958.pdf Renée,K6FSB On 3/30/22 10:25 AM, Grant Saviers wrote: Thanks for an interesting article. I did a little reverse engineering from the KYW 1934 "4 square" picture and commentary. A figure 8 pattern was the objective. It seems to have used 8 radials elevated 10ft per tower. The text says "55,000 feet of wire" in radial "cages". A little tough to tell but I can resolve 3 or 4 wire cages. For a frequency of 1020Khz and 32 radials/4 wire cages that is roughly 1/8wl. Or maybe ~3/8wl if they are 3 wire cages. A 200ft tall vertical. Whatever it was, they could put 50Kw into it. The reference book of patterns for 2 and 3 element verticals is Directional Antennas, by Carl E. Smith, E.E., Cleveland Institute of Radio Electronics, 1946 and is available in pdf from scribd.com It has hundreds of fascinating patterns created by Carl Smith's analog computer. Antenna patterns for every possible need, if you have the space and expertise to work out the feed. One comment in article had me wondering. "The towers were fed by individual transmission lines from a phasing circuit that separately controlled the current and phase of each tower." The 4 square was replaced with two 450ft towers for "increased radiation efficiency" in 1949 per https://www.broadcastpioneers.com/kywstory.html Some pretty clever engineering by pioneers 88 years ago. Grant KZ1W On 3/29/2022 09:31, Radio KH6O wrote: This article describes the history of the development of directional MF antennas on our neighbor, the AM broadcast band. 73, Jeff KH6O https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/roots-of-radio/the-development-of-the-directional-am-broadcast-antenna?utm_source=SmartBrief_medium=email_campaign=0028F35E-226C-4B60-AC88-AB2831C8A639_content=8E01A4B9-193C-4BAE-B25D-23D973D5E345_term=5e35c2b9-3044-4235-9961-04d879406e09 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: History of directional MF antennas
Thanks for an interesting article. I did a little reverse engineering from the KYW 1934 "4 square" picture and commentary. A figure 8 pattern was the objective. It seems to have used 8 radials elevated 10ft per tower. The text says "55,000 feet of wire" in radial "cages". A little tough to tell but I can resolve 3 or 4 wire cages. For a frequency of 1020Khz and 32 radials/4 wire cages that is roughly 1/8wl. Or maybe ~3/8wl if they are 3 wire cages. A 200ft tall vertical. Whatever it was, they could put 50Kw into it. The reference book of patterns for 2 and 3 element verticals is Directional Antennas, by Carl E. Smith, E.E., Cleveland Institute of Radio Electronics, 1946 and is available in pdf from scribd.com It has hundreds of fascinating patterns created by Carl Smith's analog computer. Antenna patterns for every possible need, if you have the space and expertise to work out the feed. One comment in article had me wondering. "The towers were fed by individual transmission lines from a phasing circuit that separately controlled the current and phase of each tower." The 4 square was replaced with two 450ft towers for "increased radiation efficiency" in 1949 per https://www.broadcastpioneers.com/kywstory.html Some pretty clever engineering by pioneers 88 years ago. Grant KZ1W On 3/29/2022 09:31, Radio KH6O wrote: This article describes the history of the development of directional MF antennas on our neighbor, the AM broadcast band. 73, Jeff KH6O https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/roots-of-radio/the-development-of-the-directional-am-broadcast-antenna?utm_source=SmartBrief_medium=email_campaign=0028F35E-226C-4B60-AC88-AB2831C8A639_content=8E01A4B9-193C-4BAE-B25D-23D973D5E345_term=5e35c2b9-3044-4235-9961-04d879406e09 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Wednesday CW DX Activity Night
Your weekly reminder . . . Hope to see lots of stations on Top Band from both sides of the pond tonight/Thursday morning! 73 Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
