Re: Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report
On 11/28/2023 3:40 PM, Wes Stewart via Topband wrote: Serious weak-signal ops would be using CW, so who cares what the FT8 guys are doing? Serious weak signal ops have been using WSJT modes on VHF/UHF since they were first developed. Likewise on the longwave bands. One of the sharpest topband DXpeditioners, AA7JV, has been using FT8 a lot for at least four years. George is both a first class op and one of the smartest engineers I know of. I use "engineer" in the sense of someone who uses science to solve problems, often in very innovative ways. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report
Serious weak-signal ops would be using CW, so who cares what the FT8 guys are doing? :-) On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 02:37:00 PM MST, Jim Brown wrote: On 11/28/2023 5:05 AM, Dietmar Kasper wrote: > A resolution at the July ARRL Board of Directors meeting pointed to > “growing concern over fully automated contacts being made and claimed” > for contest and DXCC credit. The rules now require that each claimed > contact include contemporaneous direct initiation by the operator on > both sides of the contact. Initiation of a contact may be either local > or remote. They might want to start enforcing this with several of their midwest SCMs who have been running nearly fulltime BOTs on 6M FT8 for well over a year. They have been complained about to the League by serious weak-signal 6M ops. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report
On 11/28/2023 5:05 AM, Dietmar Kasper wrote: A resolution at the July ARRL Board of Directors meeting pointed to “growing concern over fully automated contacts being made and claimed” for contest and DXCC credit. The rules now require that each claimed contact include contemporaneous direct initiation by the operator on both sides of the contact. Initiation of a contact may be either local or remote. They might want to start enforcing this with several of their midwest SCMs who have been running nearly fulltime BOTs on 6M FT8 for well over a year. They have been complained about to the League by serious weak-signal 6M ops. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Timor Leste report #9
Dear Topbanders the plan is to continue topband operation until Sunday. The latest news are that the container with equipment will leave here on Monday to reach the planned ship departure. Last night has been poor. We had a thunderstorm with lightnings short before sunset. It came from the south over the mountains and went north west making the band unusable at US time. Crashes continued full night until sunrise. Worked few EUs in the morning half hour before sunrise 1xOH2 1xON 3xOM 1xDF6. Band closed with the sunrise. There was no sunrise peak. I thought I would understand topband propagation after many activities in the south but it always surprises me. Every night is different. 73 Dietmar _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report
ARRL wrote: " The rules now require that each claimed contact include contemporaneous direct initiation by the operator on both sides of the contact. Initiation of a contact may be either local or remote." The phrase "contemporaneous direct initiation" is an interesting nuance. I can personally think of attempted CW QSOs where both sides initiated the contact successfully, but either or both sides may not have completed the QSO. This could be caused by miscopying the call, deep QSB, QRM or otherwise. Both sides usually confirm their QSO by either sending "R TU" or "CFM" etc. More importantly the QSO timing should be correct to prevent the "helpers" on frequency or Chat prompting either side of the QSO...please don't do that guys! It reminds me of the poor practices that first began in W7PHO nets..."When last heard (could have been last year) you were 2 by 2...rifle shot" and then the net control proclaims "Good Contact!". Shameful! 73, Bill W4ZV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report
Dietmar, my interpretation is that yes: BOTH sides of the QSO must be initiated, or begun, by a human or the QSO does not count. In other words, even though your computer can do all of the data translation into human-readable text, a QSO that takes place AUTOMATICALLY by the computer does NOT count. The operators may be either local or remote, that doesn't matter. So, for example, George, at KH8/AA7JV, may make digital mode QSOs while relaxing on his boat and his RIB is on the shore, and he's controlling the RIB remotely... AS LONG as it's George (or another operator) who is actually initiating, or beginning, the QSO. NOTE: the ARRL made a big point of saying "initiate" QSOs; initiate, in the English language, means to begin something. Nothing is implied about ENDING anything, however... so the QSO can be automagically ENDED by the computer, and it will count. By saying "contemporaneous", the ARRL is making the point that the QSO must be initiated (begun) at the proper time, instead of some time in the future or past. In other words, you can't program your computer to call and work the DXpedition in 25 minutes while you are off having supper: you must be there at the computer and actually triggr the conputer to initiate, or begin, the QSO. So yes, if you set up your computer to make automagic QSOs while you run off to sleep or to eat or drink or whatever, THAT does NOT count. If any DXpeditions are doing that (setting up then letting the computer run all by itself with no human initiating (beginning) the QSO, then their QSOs, even if the far-off operator is sitting right at the computer, do NOT count. The next question is: can the DXpedition set up their computer to monitor the band, then respond to and call DXers AUTOMATICALLY, with NO human interaction, BETWEEN QSOs?? The ARRL's message says "contemporaneous direct initiation" of both sides of the contact; so NO, letting your computer AUTOMATICALLY find and call a DXer is NOT allowed: YOU, the DXpeditioner, must initiate the QSO yourself, however your station does that (tuning around to find new stations then calling them). And by the way... with that one message, I can think of at least one Southern California radio club member who should forfeit most of his DX QSOs from the past 4 or 5 years, because he had his computer set up to AUTOMATICALLY tune for, call, and work DX. He was not there during most of his "QSOs"; he simply set up the computer and radio then came back hours later to see what it had worked. That's my own interpretation of what you related from the ARRL's message. 73, Steve K0XP On 11/28/2023 5:05 AM, Dietmar Kasper wrote: After CQWW we dismantle the station but we are still QRV on topband maybe also on other bands We still have a close thunderstorm so RX is again very bad, cant copy signals weaker as S5 strength Got message about ARRL rules for DXCC and other awards. I myself do not operate FT modes so maybe one who uses it can tell me how to handle it. ARRL does not count fully automated robot QSOs for DXCC credit. https://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-contest-and-dxcc-rules-now-prohibit-automated-contacts Please clarification, what does it mean ? ARRL writes: A resolution at the July ARRL Board of Directors meeting pointed to “growing concern over fully automated contacts being made and claimed” for contest and DXCC credit. The rules now require that each claimed contact include contemporaneous direct initiation by the operator on both sides of the contact. Initiation of a contact may be either local or remote. both sides of the contact ? I understand that the applicant must be present at the radio to initiate and log the contact. What about the other side (DXpedition ?) Does initiating a contact means "I switch on radio and computer, start MSHV software and let it running automatically logging contacts hour after hour attended by human watching the traffic or even unattended if operator observes several bands in parallel or go to dinner, have a beer or even go sleep ? DXpedition is not requesting a DXCC so is that operation OK ? If both sides must initiate and log the contact manually then my conclusion is that most of the big DXpeditions using MSHV would do wrong ? I wonder that nobody asked this question before. still confused ... 73 Dietmar _ Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector -- See my QRZ.com page at *https://www.qrz.com/db/K0XP* _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report
After CQWW we dismantle the station but we are still QRV on topband maybe also on other bands We still have a close thunderstorm so RX is again very bad, cant copy signals weaker as S5 strength Got message about ARRL rules for DXCC and other awards. I myself do not operate FT modes so maybe one who uses it can tell me how to handle it. >ARRL does not count fully automated robot QSOs for DXCC credit. >https://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-contest-and-dxcc-rules-now-prohibit-automated-contacts Please clarification, what does it mean ? ARRL writes: A resolution at the July ARRL Board of Directors meeting pointed to “growing concern over fully automated contacts being made and claimed” for contest and DXCC credit. The rules now require that each claimed contact include contemporaneous direct initiation by the operator on both sides of the contact. Initiation of a contact may be either local or remote. both sides of the contact ? I understand that the applicant must be present at the radio to initiate and log the contact. What about the other side (DXpedition ?) Does initiating a contact means "I switch on radio and computer, start MSHV software and let it running automatically logging contacts hour after hour attended by human watching the traffic or even unattended if operator observes several bands in parallel or go to dinner, have a beer or even go sleep ? DXpedition is not requesting a DXCC so is that operation OK ? If both sides must initiate and log the contact manually then my conclusion is that most of the big DXpeditions using MSHV would do wrong ? I wonder that nobody asked this question before. still confused ... 73 Dietmar _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Fw: Timor Leste post cqww report
Dear Dietmar. No text again... --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Dietmar Kasper писал(а) 2023-11-28 14:44: _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Fw: Timor Leste post cqww report
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Re: Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report
Hi Dietmar, your last post looks empty?Hope you had fun in CQWW, thanks to the team for QSOs @ MD4K , but not 160m unfortunately:-(73 Dave, G3NKCSent from my Galaxy Original message From: Dietmar Kasper Date: 28/11/2023 11:15 (GMT+00:00) To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report _Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Timor Leste post cqww report
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