Re: Topband: KH8 Demand on TB
Wes I would add that if you have worked it before and its confirmed, then give those that do not have it a chance. After all it’s a local for the West coast. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Wes Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 1:28 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: KH8 Demand on TB I worked W1AW/KH8 twice (5 min apart---must have been insurance) almost exactly 9 years ago. Nothing before or after. Wes N7WS On 10/31/2023 1:53 AM, GEORGE WALLNER wrote: > Hello TobBanders, > I am in American Samoa (KH8) and will be in the Manua Islands, AH54 > (OC-77), later this week. I may have a chance to set up a 160 m > station and operate for a few days. How much wanted is KH8 on TB? > ClubLog indicates that it is quite rare at #30 on 160 m, but I find > that hard to believe for a place recently activated by a number of groups. > > > TKS, > George, > AA7JV > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: FW: The USA-CA Awards
Hi Nick, Well I have never checked from here, but I have worked WAS twice during a single weekend and have over 8600 Qs with the USA on 160. That is without trying to make a habit of working USA on a daily basis. So I am sure someone like me should have worked that award but just not claimed it. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of uy0zg via Topband Sent: 06 February 2023 12:03 To: Topband Subject: Topband: The USA-CA Awards Hi Where can I see the list of recipients of this award? https://countyhunter.com/cq.htm Does anyone from Europe have a USA - 500 or USA - 1000 award for working on the 160m band? If there is, it really is a very, very serious result . -- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: CQ WW Contest
Guy you only have to look at the past results for CQ160 to know that this
year's conditions were not anywhere near as good as 2009. Then I worked
around 700 US stations including all States and 57 St/Prov.
Although last weekend weren't by the recent past bad, and hopefully just a
stepping stone to better in the future. 73 Clive GM3POI
-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+clive=gm3poi@contesting.com] On
Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV
Sent: 29 January 2020 03:11
To: Roger Kennedy
Cc: TopBand List
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW Contest
Hi Roger,
Just want to be sure we are both talking about the weekend of 25, 26
January, 2020, the weekend of the 2020 CQ 160 CW contest. If so, I must
register my decidedly firm impression that was the best 160 meter weekend of
my lifetime, what has to be a counterpoint of the amazing 1958 sunspot
maximum.
In the contest I worked 1349 stations including 339 10 pointers (almost all
the 10 pointers were European), let's just say 300+ European stations. In
all of that I worked a 160 meter worked all states (48 CONUS + AK & HI),
plus 9 Canadian provinces, 78 countries ("country" per the contest rules).
That was a claimed score from the southeast USA (decidedly not the
EU-advantaged northeast US) of 752,780.
It was, by an enormous margin, my personal lifetime best for any 160 meter
contest. The antenna did work very well, but, seriously, could not possibly
have accounted for that bump up, nor for sure could my personal operating
skills.
Just think we need to leave room for the idea that maybe the band was a bit
better than "open".
Station here K3 + KPA1500, Inverted L over FCP, no RX antennas (working on
that), NOT a superstation.
Wowser, I wonder if we'll get that again before the sunspots start in
again. I can hope.
73, Guy K2AV
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:27 PM Roger Kennedy
wrote:
>
> Well conditions were reasonable over the weekend . . .
>
> I spent a total of about 3 hours on the band, and managed to work 48 NA
> stations through all the European QRM.
>
> I'm sure I would have worked a lot more, as I heard many others calling
> stations that were calling CQ . . . but I'm reluctant to put out a CQ call
> in a contest, as I don't want to work hundreds of Europeans (I'm up in the
> middle of the night to work some DX !)
>
> As I say, I wouldn't say conditions were particularly good, but the band
> was
> open.
>
>
> Roger G3YRO
>
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: [TowerTalk] Skip Distance
Try it at midday. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Roger D Johnson Sent: 13 September 2019 10:11 To: Towertalk Reflector; Top Band Reflector Subject: Re: Topband: [TowerTalk] Skip Distance These test were in late morning to early afternoon. 73, Roger On 9/12/2019 9:02 PM, Roger D Johnson wrote: > I've been running some tests on my 8 circle array with K1JB. Joe is 17 miles > away and I sometimes notice deep fading on his signal. Makes plotting the > antenna pattern very difficult. Is it possible to have skywave contamination > at this short range? > > 73, Roger > ___ > > > > ___ > TowerTalk mailing list > towert...@contesting.com > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector This email has been scanned by BullGuard antivirus protection. For more info visit www.bullguard.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: inverted-L
Pete the simplest method is to shorten the resonance of the antenna before adding the shunt to around 1.9mhz. Then use a variable L to find the correct value. Measure its inductance and replace it with a fixed value of the same. Job done. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N4ZR Sent: 04 September 2019 01:29 To: topband reflector Subject: Topband: inverted-L Thanks to everyone who responded to my message - lots of good ideas. I think my favorite was the one about tapping a shunt coil from both ends, alternately, to bring both the radiation resistance and the resonant frequency in line. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now spotting RTTY activity worldwide. For spots, please use your favorite "retail" DX cluster. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector This email has been scanned by BullGuard antivirus protection. For more info visit www.bullguard.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Inverted L redux
The bandwidth of the SWR is a clue to how poor the ground system is. As you add radials the bandwidth will get narrower and the SWR is likely to change. At present it all looks like a big dummy load. When you think you have added enough radials double it again and measure parameters again. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [ <mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com> mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N4ZR Sent: 02 September 2019 19:08 To: topband reflector Subject: Topband: Inverted L redux More as an experiment and a thought-provoker than anything else, I've started adding 50-60-foot, on-the-ground radials to my 135-foot inverted L. In the latest incarnation I'm up to 4 radials. On my ancient MFJ-259B the lowest SWR is 1.3:1 at 1825 KHz, with an R of 77. X=0 (the 259B doesn't give the sign of j) from 1808 to1894, which I assume is roughly centered on the actual cross-over point. With my rudimentary knowledge of such things, I'm guessing that there remains something on the order of 50 ohms of ground resistance to be reduced for efficiency, through addition of radials. Question is, would I profit most by adding another 4 50-60 foot radials, or 2 radials each 100-120 feet? Comments appreciated. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at < <http://reversebeacon.net> http://reversebeacon.net>, now spotting RTTY activity worldwide. For spots, please use your favorite "retail" DX cluster. _ Searchable Archives: <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector This email has been scanned by BullGuard antivirus protection. For more info visit www.bullguard.com <http://www.bullguard.com/tracking.aspx?affiliate=bullguard=smt p=/> _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Hairpin match to inverted L?
Simple, resonate the vertical at about 1.9mhz. Then add the inductance across
the feed point which may well be in the 2-3 micro Henry region. But use a
variable L and slightly alter the L or top loading to get the match where it's
wanted. I have used a hairpin match and a T Vertical for a number of years.
The only valuation consideration is the vertical design i.e. is it a T or L .
T being better, and the quality of the radial system. 73 Clive GM3POI
-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N4ZR
Sent: 01 September 2019 18:47
To: topband reflector
Subject: Topband: Hairpin match to inverted L?
The other day a ham friend suggested using a coil ("hairpin") to match
the low impedance of a well-radialed inverted L to 50-ohm coax. This
struck me as a potentially-attractive alternative to a series vacuum
capacitor, but I don't know enough to evaluate it. Thoughts?
--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.
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Re: Topband: Modern Grand Solar Minimum from 2020 to 2055?
Well Frank if they are wrong we can for sure never to call them experts again. I also see NOAA does not agree with the Australians who think the minimum has already gone through. Again only one winner. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: 25 June 2019 06:13 To: topband Subject: Topband: Modern Grand Solar Minimum from 2020 to 2055? This article in Nature forecasts that we're approaching a grand solar minimum -- similar to Maunder Minimum -- starting in 2020 and lasting for three solar cycles. I hope these scientists are wrong... www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45584-3 An international panel of experts coordinated by the NOAA and NASA released its preliminary s olar cycle 25 forecast in April, 2019 forecasting that cycle 25 will peak between 2023 and 2026 with a sunspot number between 95 and 130. I hate forecasts, especially about the future... 73 Frank W3LPL _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Top Loading Advice
Bob, I should have added that you would increase the performance of the antenna if you could find a way to raise the ends of the top loading by the same amount on each side, this will raise the feed Z. But overall the efficiency will be dependent on the quality of your ground system. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Chortek, Robert L. Sent: 17 March 2019 22:02 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Top Loading Advice Fellow Topbanders, I just finished replacing my damaged base loaded vertical and have a question about the optimum amount of top loading. A bit of background - my new vertical is a 55' #12 wire supported by a 60' Spiderbeam fiberglass pole. At the top there are 2 -41' top loading wires running roughly at 180 degrees from each other, angling down at about 45 degrees. The ends are at about 25' . Since the resonant point is about 2 MHZ, I am still using an air core base loading coil 6" in diameter made of No. 8 solid copper wire to bring it to resonance at 1825 MHZ. I could lengthen the top loading wires somewhere between 4 - 10' each (and reduce the amount of base loading needed), but it will bring the ends to within about 15' and 20' of the ground. My question is this: At what point will lengthening the top loading wires and bringing the ends closer to ground offset the improvement gained by reducing the amount of base loading? As it is, the antenna is a HUGE improvement over my base loaded vertical (on the order of 6-9 db from stations in the RBN within the ground wave). Should I leave it alone and be satisfied with the improvement or lengthen the top loading wires. If so, by how much? Thanks in advance from any advice. 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Top Loading Advice
Bob, You should lengthen the two top loading wires so that the basic resonance of the vertical is about 1.9mhz. Then add a Hairpin coil across the feed point and adjust it/ top loading to place the minimum SWR where you want it in the bottom of the band e.g. 1825khz. This works well and also gives you a DC grounded vertical. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Chortek, Robert L. Sent: 17 March 2019 22:02 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Top Loading Advice Fellow Topbanders, I just finished replacing my damaged base loaded vertical and have a question about the optimum amount of top loading. A bit of background - my new vertical is a 55' #12 wire supported by a 60' Spiderbeam fiberglass pole. At the top there are 2 -41' top loading wires running roughly at 180 degrees from each other, angling down at about 45 degrees. The ends are at about 25' . Since the resonant point is about 2 MHZ, I am still using an air core base loading coil 6" in diameter made of No. 8 solid copper wire to bring it to resonance at 1825 MHZ. I could lengthen the top loading wires somewhere between 4 - 10' each (and reduce the amount of base loading needed), but it will bring the ends to within about 15' and 20' of the ground. My question is this: At what point will lengthening the top loading wires and bringing the ends closer to ground offset the improvement gained by reducing the amount of base loading? As it is, the antenna is a HUGE improvement over my base loaded vertical (on the order of 6-9 db from stations in the RBN within the ground wave). Should I leave it alone and be satisfied with the improvement or lengthen the top loading wires. If so, by how much? Thanks in advance from any advice. 73, Bob/AA6VB _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Inverted L loading wire dilemma
Dave, I would use a different approach, try 2 sloping wires opposite each other of the same length. They will cancel out the horizontal component of the loading and give you an overall better signal. For about 20 years I used a 51ft vertical with two stainless steel loading wires (just capacity to ground). Which netted 298 current DXCC. I later changed it to a 60ft vertical with shorter loading wires. Both systems used a Hairpin match. I must say I don't see much difference between the 51' and 60' vertical, although my ground system is extremely good, so would not expect too. Both vertical heights here had the loading wire tips at a height of about 35-45ft Dependent on version. All resonated at about 1.9mhz before the adding of the hairpin coil. DXCC current only confirmed is 308. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dave G4GED via Topband Sent: 14 March 2019 20:06 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Inverted L loading wire dialmma For many years my 160m antenna has been a very successful classic 21m tall Inv L mast with a horizontal loading wire. The only problem, a big one, has been the loading wire getting tangled up in the surrounding trees in very windy weather. Chopping the trees down is not an option and I've had enough of the agro of untangling, to be honest. I know I could provide loading at the feed point but it's not as efficient. So, I wondered if anyone have had success with providing the loading wire(s) at say 45deg from the mast top down to ground level? (Witches Hat style). Thanks in advance for any advice. Dave G4GED --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF
Ash model in also your TX antenna and see whether you need to isolate that vertical on RX with a relay. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: 02 March 2019 10:46 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Hi guys, I built a 4 Square Receiving Array for 160m at 3V8SF. I put details in my website: http://kf5eyy.info/topband.htm The achieved F/B so far is 20 db and the F/S is 19 db. There is still room for improvement with better matching of the elements. I'll need time to do that. Thanks to Ahmad 3V1B and Majdi 3V1M for helping me setting up of the elements. Also to K7TJR, W3LPL and W0FLS for the valuable support. 73 Ash 3V8SF, 3V8SS www.kf5eyy.info _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Fwd: Topband Digest -- RX Antenna Performance
George your last point is a good one. Take any vertical array such an 8 or 9 circle array and point it at a resonant electrical 1/4 wave vertical. The pattern will be destroyed at 200 or 500ft. The TX antenna has to be isolated above ground for the RX antenna to perform properly. So I also suggest that the placing of the RX array should also be a consideration. HNY Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: 29 December 2018 19:44 To: Mike Waters; Wes Stewart; topband Subject: Re: Topband: Fwd: Topband Digest -- RX Antenna Performance Mike, N4IS (JC) does know what he is talking about. His Waller Flag, however, can be vertical or horizontal. The Horizontal WF (HWF) is certainly a class above all other loops, provided it is more than 100' up. But you can have a Vertical WF at any height -- in fact lower is better. Not as good as HWF, but still a very good RX antenna. JC makes a very crucial point: the WF does have a much narrower front lobe and has minimal side lobes, because it has two elements. You can not get this narrow pattern with a single loop. Any single element loop will have a more-or-less cardioid radiation pattern, which translates to a RDF of 7 to 8 dB. To get a higher RDF, you need two elements. On JC's recommendation, I built a phased array of two delta loops on a small island and tested its "radiation" pattern. The video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMujut_5FdY=71s was shot from a drone that carried a small 1.8 MHz transmitter. The audio is from the receiver connected to the antenna (the two vertical poles hold the apexes of the two delta loops). The video starts in front of the antenna (maximum signal). At 90 degrees (the side of the antenna) the signal is almost zero. As the drone moves towards the rear, there are two weak side lobes, and then almost no signal from the rear. This pattern is consistent with the NEC model of the same antenna. This antenna has a 150' foot-print, which is much smaller than a Beverage with similar performance. Another crucial point: I have built many RX antennas of various designs. I have found that their performance varied a great deal based on the environment. The same antenna would work great in one place and would be terrible somewhere else. Local conditions (the ground, wires in the ground, nearby antennas, etc.) can change the radiation pattern and can induce noise, rendering an antenna that models great useless. If you build a well established design, like a K9AY or SAL, and it does not perform according to its specifications, see what is around it. These antennas have very low gain and even a very small amount of noise can swamp the weak signals they produce. 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 19:50:52 -0600 Mike Waters wrote: > Hi Wes, > > I'm 95% certain that N4IS knows what he's talking about here. I've been > reading the posts on this reflector for years, and there's a few experts > that stand above and beyond the rest of us. ;-) > > He invented the Waller flag, IIRC; you might want to look into that. He has > written much about it, both here and on his website. If I were a young man > again, I would put one on a tower and rotor in a heartbeat. It's like > having a one-wavelength Beverage that's rotatable. > > Now, the Waller is more critical than many other good RX antennas, but with > your years of hands-on electronics experience I have no doubt that wouldn't > be an issue for you. > > You might want to start with Dr. Gary Breed's (K9AY) improved design first. > I forget the URL of his website. > > Just my $0.02 worth. ;-) > > 73, Mike > www.w0btu.com <http://www.w0btu.com> > > -- Forwarded message - >From: > Date: Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 2:44 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 192, Issue 33 > To: Jay Terleski , > > > Jay > > The SAL is only one electrical equivalent loop with 9 db RDF, the Waller >Flag has 2 flags in phase with 11.5 db RDF. > > It is not on the same class. Sorry but I am been honest here, both antennas > need the tower to be detuned to work. > > The invention of a BALUN just transfer the impedance replacing a resistor > 1000 ohms to load the loop as any FLAG, the other BALUN you call a special > name to patent, it is just a simple BALUN, it is just the feed line , the > SAL does have one resistor and one feed point, the two vertical wires works > like a very short transmission line. And it removed does not affect > anything, You own engineer admitted that. > > To prove that it is no the same class, check the side null, two flags can > provide a deep null on each side , 30 db , and 20 db F/B. > > Does your SAL provide side null, 82 degree front lob,. 11.5 db RDF and it is > ground independent? N
Re: Topband: Might be a good EU DX night
I very much doubt EK8ZT. Smells very fishy, all the big EK signals are pretty well known in EU and that's not one of them. I think they saw you coming. HNY Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lunday Sent: 28 December 2018 03:29 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Might be a good EU DX night At sunset tonight I was decoding a strong FT8 signal from EK8ZT. That's not a common DX at this QTH...6000 miles is a bit longer than I normally copy with my non-competitive station. Then at 0330 I copied VP8EME with a strong signal on FT8. Again, 6000+ miles, unusual with my setup. Mark Lunday, WD4ELG Greensboro, NC FM06be wd4...@arrl.net http://wd4elg.blogspot.com SKCC #16439 FISTS #17972 QRP ARCI #16497 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
Seeing I mentioned K2RIW this is a link to his comments about 259s at 70cms much less 160m. https://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=34680.0;wap2 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
For anyone that doubts the loss of a good 259. Google K2RIW on the subject who knows a thing or two about UHF and did some numbers on the subject. I have used for a good long time the Silver plated Teflon with a gold pin from the RF connection. I usually end up buying 50 at a time. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS
Reflector problems this is what I wanted to say. 73 Clive GM3POI From: Clive GM3POI [mailto:cl...@gm3poi.com] Sent: 05 December 2018 16:17 To: 'MU 4CX250B' Subject: RE: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS Well here the RF connection Brass / silver plated have been bought by the dozen over the years. The Compression type whilst coming in handy in poor weather is not the plug of choice here and I’ve tried them for many years. On the compression plugs you should also drill out the centre conductor hole otherwise a typical RG213 type cable will not get to the tip of the plug to be soldered. Designed by an idiot I suspect. 73 Clive GM3POI From: MU 4CX250B [mailto:4cx2...@miamioh.edu] Sent: 05 December 2018 16:04 To: Clive GM3POI Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS Finally, after years of frustration with several types of PL259 connectors, I've settled on the new crimp/solder type from DX Engineering. They're strong, reliable, and easy to install in minutes while dangling from a tower. Soldering is only for the center conductor. The downsides are that they're a bit pricey, and require a crimp connector. Over the past year, I've bought about fifty of them and am gradually swapping them into all my indoor and outdoor cables. Here's a link: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-pl259cs8x-12 BTW, I'm also phasing out all the LMR-400 (both the ordinary and superflex types) in my station and going back to plain old RG213. The modest attenuation improvement of LMR400 over the earlier RG--type cables is negligible at HF frequencies, and the Al foil and awkward-size center conductor of the LMR cables have been, for me, nothing but trouble. 73, Jim W8ZR Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Clive GM3POI wrote: I have been using those plugs for at least 10 years. They come in useful if you have to put on a plug in cold weather and or high winds because no braid soldering is needed. However at the back of equipment they are more temperamental than regular 259's because the threads tend to be difficult. YMMV 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL ST ANGELO Sent: 05 December 2018 14:49 To: Pete Michaelis - N8TR; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS These are compression connectors similar to the N type compression connector. I use them as well as crimp type UHF connectors because I don't like the solder type PL259 connectors for RG-8. RG-58 or LMR-400 type coax. Pasternack offers a similar type connector. Their data sheet has assembly instructions. You can use it as a guide. <https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE44050.pdf> Mike N2MS On December 5, 2018 at 12:34 AM Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote: EBAY item 192225630585 looks similar to the Multicomp clamp connector discussed on Towertalk early in 2011. See: http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2011-02/msg00214.html 73, Pete - N8TR At 09:45 PM 12/4/2018, terry burge wrote: Hi Gary Take a look at ebay 'UHF PL259 male clamp Plug lot connector for LMR400 RG8 RG213 RG214 Coax cable' from 'superstore_dan'. Terry KI7M _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS
From: MU 4CX250B [mailto:4cx2...@miamioh.edu] Sent: 05 December 2018 16:04 To: Clive GM3POI Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS Finally, after years of frustration with several types of PL259 connectors, I've settled on the new crimp/solder type from DX Engineering. They're strong, reliable, and easy to install in minutes while dangling from a tower. Soldering is only for the center conductor. The downsides are that they're a bit pricey, and require a crimp connector. Over the past year, I've bought about fifty of them and am gradually swapping them into all my indoor and outdoor cables. Here's a link: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-pl259cs8x-12 BTW, I'm also phasing out all the LMR-400 (both the ordinary and superflex types) in my station and going back to plain old RG213. The modest attenuation improvement of LMR400 over the earlier RG--type cables is negligible at HF frequencies, and the Al foil and awkward-size center conductor of the LMR cables have been, for me, nothing but trouble. 73, Jim W8ZR Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Clive GM3POI wrote: I have been using those plugs for at least 10 years. They come in useful if you have to put on a plug in cold weather and or high winds because no braid soldering is needed. However at the back of equipment they are more temperamental than regular 259's because the threads tend to be difficult. YMMV 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL ST ANGELO Sent: 05 December 2018 14:49 To: Pete Michaelis - N8TR; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS These are compression connectors similar to the N type compression connector. I use them as well as crimp type UHF connectors because I don't like the solder type PL259 connectors for RG-8. RG-58 or LMR-400 type coax. Pasternack offers a similar type connector. Their data sheet has assembly instructions. You can use it as a guide. <https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE44050.pdf> Mike N2MS On December 5, 2018 at 12:34 AM Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote: EBAY item 192225630585 looks similar to the Multicomp clamp connector discussed on Towertalk early in 2011. See: http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2011-02/msg00214.html 73, Pete - N8TR At 09:45 PM 12/4/2018, terry burge wrote: Hi Gary Take a look at ebay 'UHF PL259 male clamp Plug lot connector for LMR400 RG8 RG213 RG214 Coax cable' from 'superstore_dan'. Terry KI7M _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS
I have been using those plugs for at least 10 years. They come in useful if you have to put on a plug in cold weather and or high winds because no braid soldering is needed. However at the back of equipment they are more temperamental than regular 259's because the threads tend to be difficult. YMMV 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL ST ANGELO Sent: 05 December 2018 14:49 To: Pete Michaelis - N8TR; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS These are compression connectors similar to the N type compression connector. I use them as well as crimp type UHF connectors because I don't like the solder type PL259 connectors for RG-8. RG-58 or LMR-400 type coax. Pasternack offers a similar type connector. Their data sheet has assembly instructions. You can use it as a guide. <https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE44050.pdf> Mike N2MS > On December 5, 2018 at 12:34 AM Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote: > > > EBAY item 192225630585 looks similar to the Multicomp clamp > connector discussed on > Towertalk early in 2011. See: > http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2011-02/msg00214.html > > 73, Pete - N8TR > > > > At 09:45 PM 12/4/2018, terry burge wrote: > > Hi Gary > Take a look at ebay 'UHF PL259 male clamp Plug lot connector for > LMR400 RG8 RG213 RG214 Coax cable' from 'superstore_dan'. > Terry > KI7M > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters
JC I think you have to be careful about saying this daytime or that qso could not have happened. "It entirely depends where the station is located." An example, I have a QSL with three QSOS between me and a JD1 station all within about 15 mins of each other, on different dates and centred on midday here on 40m. Stations in Northerly location will have a high degree of probability for midwinter daytime DX contacts. They will at other parts of the cycle, have a similar type of opening to the Pacific either side of mid night on the higher HF bands. I agree the OK stuff stinks and considering the previous qsl printing that went on, you cannot believe any of the data for certain. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of n...@n4is.com Sent: 20 November 2018 17:56 To: 'Greg'; w...@w5zn.org; 'topband' Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters Hi Guys Here what I think is the problem. DXCC records and link accounts. This is a problem with CQ WAZ as well. Here some examples, Back in late 80's a PY1 send 40 cards to claim CQ WAZ 40 zones on 160m, just after HB9AMO Plaque # 1 - 13 June 1987 . K1MEM sent a letter to PY1RO to check the cards, and several cards was just impossible QSO's, like China during daytime and the Chinese station never worked on 160m. The certificate was canceled, however 10 to 20 years later the same guy apply again and get his WAZ original certificate number validate using old credits. The certificate was canceled but the filed credits not. Same thing on DXCC, after 10 years you can apply again, using link accounts, and using old credits on file. I've seen this with others PY, LZ and why not this OK. This is fixable. I understand the ARRL wants to be very discreate when someone is caught doing creative things, no moral or ethical help on publicity. So I believe it is just an internal broken process that allow linked accounts and old records to be used again without verification. The issue I see on LOTW is a lack of card check at the same level we have with paper QSL cards. Here some examples. PY3CEJ posted on his website a QSL card with a SSB QSO 11:30 am local noon time, and with only 100w. I call PY3CEJ and challenged him about this impossible QSO, few days latter the 4W guy uploaded on Club Log this fantastic QSO. If you look on the statistics there is only one single QSO on 160, 2 QSO's on 80m and 100's of QSO on 40m SSB, most with JA's. I cannot say that this QSO was uploaded to LOTW, but there is nothing to prevent it. In the last six years we've seen a large number of QSO during day time on 160m from several " groups club" , like the ongoing strong between PY, LZ and YB. QSO's on 160m on broad day sun light. Ongoing means last week with new impossible QSO's on Club Log and credits on the DXCC list latter for sure. The explanation from ARRL was that there is no way to stop "them". I don't agree with it, a simple code on LOTW DXCC validation can flag those daytime 160m QSO's for late "card check". The real thing here is the most dangerous behavior for our hobby. if you don't care I don' t mind, and I don't mind if you don't care. Please! we do care, and we do mint! Do something too!... 73's JC N4IS _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters
There have been no uploads for OK1YQ therefore it all has to be cards. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of n...@n4is.com Sent: 17 November 2018 13:29 To: w...@w5zn.org; 'topband' Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters Hi Joel I have the same impression as Bill mentioned. 160m paper QSL requires a card checker, however LOTW confirmation does not have the same process, no QSO or QSL check at all. We've seen 160m " QSO's" on Club Log and subsequent confirmation on LOTW on plain day light. 73's JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of w...@w5zn.org Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 8:12 AM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters Folks - I'm not exactly understanding the LoTW comments on this thread. If it is referring to the LoTW screen shot totals listed by OK1RD on his website then that is the combined totals in his DXCC record, not the totals confirmed solely via LoTW so a "hack" has not necessarily occurred. Regardless, there is convincing evidence some bogus QSL cards were reviewed and accepted by a DXCC card checker somewhere and then entered into his DXCC record! 73 Joel W5ZN On 2018-11-17 05:29, Bill Tippett wrote: >>> Doesn't say much for the DXCC checking process either. 73 Clive >>> GM3POI > > > Guys this was probably done by OK1RD to embarrass ARRL/DXCC, in > retaliation > > for ARRL (correctly) removing his bogus listing over 10 years ago. He > > probably found a way to hack LOTW and no human monitored the result. > I'm > > sure they will correct the listing but it does raise some serious > issues > > about the security of their system. > > > 73, Bill W4ZV > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Vertical and horizontal polarized antennas
My take on this is that having had a low inverted vee at about 80ft and a top loaded vertical over a very good ground system to compare against each other. I have found the following that despite the vertical being short 60ft with the exception of stations within 200miles the vertical is always better. However the vertical is about 87% efficient with a serious amount of long radials. YMMV 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kennedy Sent: 17 November 2018 11:43 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Vertical and horizontal polarized antennas I think most people know I use a horizontal 160m Dipole as my main antenna . . . But my 6ft Receiving Loop is vertically polarised . . . so it's quite interesting to see the difference in signals between the two. (I have a pre-amp that makes local signals the same strength on the Loop) Most EU signals are stronger on the Dipole . . . and listening to those wide radar type signals (from Russia?) there is a huge difference in tone when switching (due to phase differences) However . . . although SOME DX signals are stronger on the Loop, it's interesting that most of the time, they're exactly the same strength. (but my S/N is usually 6 -10dB better on the Loop . . even more if there's any local switch-mode electrical interference) Regarding 160m Conditions, not bad on Thursday night . . . but poor last night - apart from a Sunset Peak sweeping across NA, after that signals dropped right off. (my signals typically dropping 25dB on RBN sites). Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters
Doesn't say much for the DXCC checking process either. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of k1zm--- via Topband Sent: 17 November 2018 08:16 To: w...@mindspring.com; donov...@starpower.net; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters hm Why would anyone with a LEGITIMATE 339 DXCC entities made on 160m made as licensed station OK1RD submit a DXCC total as CALLSIGN OK1YQ? That's kind of wacky.isn't it? If it is legit - then congrats! 73 JEFF K1ZM In a message dated 11/17/2018 12:33:17 AM Coordinated Universal Time, w...@mindspring.com writes: OK1YQ is actually OK1RD -Original Message- From: donov...@starpower.net Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 7:06 PM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters JC, I have well over a million QSOs in my computer log but not even a single QSO with OK1YQ 73 Frank W3LPL On 2018-11-16 13:32, n...@n4is.com wrote: > I never heard him on any band but he must be very active on EME > > ARRL DXCC - 2 Meters -151 OK1YQ > > http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-2M-20181116-USLetter.pdf > > 73's JC > N4IS > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of uy0zg > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 1:41 PM > To: Topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters > > > > ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters -339 OK1YQ . > > Who is it ?? > > http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20181116-A4.pdf#page=1=a > uto,-12,848 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: K9AY loop -- adding additional radials?
Peter when testing listening to various stations you should be mindful as to the likely incoming wave angle. I.e do not expect a very good F/B ration if the station is not low angle. Try it and see but make your judgments on EU signals not locals. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bertini Sent: 13 November 2018 22:34 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: K9AY loop -- adding additional radials? Hello to the group. I installed a K9AY system last week and added four 21 foot radials on ground radials with a ground rod at the center. The antenna didn't seem to have much directivity, so today I added another four 4-ft inexpensive TV type ground rods at the ends of each of the radials. We've had some heavy rain, but tonight I am noticing excellent nulls on European stations when changing directions. The antenna is located in a wooded area, and I had assumed the ground was fairly conductive, but apparently not... would adding another set of four radials in between the existing four improve the system? I am not sure how much the change relates to the heavy rains or adding the grounds. Pete _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Why no NA 160m Activity?
Having been in Florida in October I can assure you there is plenty of Lightning around. I don't imagine that will die down for some weeks yet. Fully audible here as well as in the US. Check http://en.blitzortung.org/live_lightning_maps.php?map=30 which will remove any guess work. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kennedy Sent: 17 October 2018 17:07 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Why no NA 160m Activity? I know you guys in North America have a lot of Lightning & Static problems in the summer . . . but surely that's all gone now? If so, why is there so little activity on CW from NA on Top Band? Every night there's usually a load of us Europeans on from your Sunset time, calling CQ DX. The band is clearly open, from the RBN signal reports . . . but I'll often come on for at least an hour, and lucky if I have 3 or 4 QSOs ! And even then, it tends to be none of the big signals. What makes it even more frustrating is that there's usually LOADS of people posting FT8 contacts on the 160m DX Cluster . . . but very few proper CW Stations ! Roger G3YRO _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 160m antenna help
Paul we know your problem is that the ground losses with your system are probably at least twice what they would be with less radial issues. Removing the L and making it a T would gain you the most. You just do not need any horizontal polarisation. How high is the end of the L? The higher the better and a T better still. 73 Clive GM3POI From: Paul Mclaren [mailto:paul@gmail.com] Sent: 21 September 2018 21:28 To: Clive GM3POI; 'Topband' Subject: RE: Topband: 160m antenna help Clive, Stan, I had followed the thread the other day but wasn’t 100% sure if the answer was the same as my analyser reading were quite a bit different. All points noted so will try the hairpin and see what that reports back. I am getting out and working stations just want to do it a bit better or at least make sure I am doing the best I can manage. Regards Paul MM0ZBH From: Clive GM3POI <mailto:cl...@gm3poi.com> Sent: 21 September 2018 22:14 To: 'Topband' <mailto:topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m antenna help Paul this was covered a few days ago. Aim to resonate the L at approx. 1.9mhz then put a hairpin coil across the feed point, somewhere in the region of 2.5 microhenries. Then if needed adjust the horizontal part of the L and the coil. I used a variable inductance to get the needed value here with a 20m vertical and two top loading wires. Then replaced the correct adjusted coil value with a fixed coil. If you have room for a T even if its inverted that would be better to save unwanted horizontal polarisation from your L. If you need further info send me an email off ref' 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mclaren Sent: 21 September 2018 20:24 To: wa5...@gmail.com; Topband Subject: Re: Topband: 160m antenna help Stan, Thanks and another daft question.what sort of wire would recommend for the coil? Regards Paul MM0ZBH On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, 21:20 Stan Stockton, wrote: > Paul, > > The antenna is too short since you want to operate at 1825. Make it > longer by about four feet. > > Then wind a coil that will probably have 20-30 turns of wire and maybe 3 > inches diameter and connect one end to the bottom of the antenna and the > other end to your radials. > > You will have to experiment with the number if turns on this hairpin but > you are trying to bring the R up to about 50 where you will see a nearly > perfect match. > > 73...Stan, K5GO/ZF9CW > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 3:07 PM Paul Mclaren wrote: > >> Looking for the advice of the experienced hams for what if anything I >> should do to make my 160m inverted L more efficient. Being realistic I >> am >> limited as I have a postage stamp garden so can't really lay more radials >> or change much beyond the inverted L. I guess the question is would some >> sort of match at the base help? >> >> Antenna is inverted L with 18m vertical section >> >> Radials are approx 40 x 10m lengths and a layer of copper mesh out to >> about >> 5 metres from the base as well. >> >> Using my RigExpert AA30 analyser the readings are: >> >> Usual TX frequency: >> >> Freq 1825khz:SWR: 2.6, R33ohm, X 31ohm, Z 44ohm, L: 2700nH >> >> >> Lowest SWR is: >> >> Freq 1882kHz: SWR 1.7, R72.5ohm, X20.5ohm, Z77ohm, L: 1900nH >> >> I'll be honest and confess I don't fully understand how to best optimise >> the antenna and what "good" looks like particularly on the low bands. >> >> Help please and thanks in advance. >> >> Regards >> >> Paul MM0ZBH >> >> The antenna works but no >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 160m antenna help
Paul this was covered a few days ago. Aim to resonate the L at approx. 1.9mhz then put a hairpin coil across the feed point, somewhere in the region of 2.5 microhenries. Then if needed adjust the horizontal part of the L and the coil. I used a variable inductance to get the needed value here with a 20m vertical and two top loading wires. Then replaced the correct adjusted coil value with a fixed coil. If you have room for a T even if its inverted that would be better to save unwanted horizontal polarisation from your L. If you need further info send me an email off ref'73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mclaren Sent: 21 September 2018 20:24 To: wa5...@gmail.com; Topband Subject: Re: Topband: 160m antenna help Stan, Thanks and another daft question.what sort of wire would recommend for the coil? Regards Paul MM0ZBH On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, 21:20 Stan Stockton, wrote: > Paul, > > The antenna is too short since you want to operate at 1825. Make it > longer by about four feet. > > Then wind a coil that will probably have 20-30 turns of wire and maybe 3 > inches diameter and connect one end to the bottom of the antenna and the > other end to your radials. > > You will have to experiment with the number if turns on this hairpin but > you are trying to bring the R up to about 50 where you will see a nearly > perfect match. > > 73...Stan, K5GO/ZF9CW > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 3:07 PM Paul Mclaren wrote: > >> Looking for the advice of the experienced hams for what if anything I >> should do to make my 160m inverted L more efficient. Being realistic I >> am >> limited as I have a postage stamp garden so can't really lay more radials >> or change much beyond the inverted L. I guess the question is would some >> sort of match at the base help? >> >> Antenna is inverted L with 18m vertical section >> >> Radials are approx 40 x 10m lengths and a layer of copper mesh out to >> about >> 5 metres from the base as well. >> >> Using my RigExpert AA30 analyser the readings are: >> >> Usual TX frequency: >> >> Freq 1825khz:SWR: 2.6, R33ohm, X 31ohm, Z 44ohm, L: 2700nH >> >> >> Lowest SWR is: >> >> Freq 1882kHz: SWR 1.7, R72.5ohm, X20.5ohm, Z77ohm, L: 1900nH >> >> I'll be honest and confess I don't fully understand how to best optimise >> the antenna and what "good" looks like particularly on the low bands. >> >> Help please and thanks in advance. >> >> Regards >> >> Paul MM0ZBH >> >> The antenna works but no >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Toploaded vertical - SWR
Yes Don, I find folding back the top loading easy. Then using a roller inductance to find the value needed to match it followed by the last stage of measuring the inductance and recreating it using Airdux or similar works well. 73 Clive GM3POI From: Don Kirk [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com] Sent: 20 September 2018 07:51 To: Clive GM3POI Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Toploaded vertical - SWR Hi Clive, Nothing wrong with the hairpin as you mentioned which I really consider to be a high pass L network (which N3QE eluded to) in which the L network capacitance is provided by the antenna (you have to actually shorten the antenna from its resonance dimension in order to provide the required capacitance, and it is a precise value of capacitance you need in order to provide a "perfect match" in conjunction with the precise value of hairpin inductance that's required for the "perfect match"). Great discussion with numerous approaches. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 1:46 PM Clive GM3POI wrote: What I don't understand is why would you use more components than needed. Why a capacitor (possibly vacuum). What is wrong in using a hairpin which also DC shorts the vertical to ground. A combination of hairpin size and top loading will give you 1:1 at your favourite 1.825 or anywhere else. Perhaps WX0B's article needs a reprint in the NCJ. It really is simple just a few microhenries of inductance and you are done. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: 19 September 2018 17:29 To: Herbert Schoenbohm Cc: topband; ash.kf5...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Topband: Toploaded vertical - SWR > > Herb (KV4FZ) mentioned an L network, and that is what I always use. Very > simple, and you just plug you're measured complex impedance values (at the > frequency you want to be resonant) into one of the many online L network > calculators to determine the amount of inductance and capacitance required > for the L network. I normally just wind my own coil for the inductance, > and use high voltage silver mica caps for the capacitor. > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Toploaded vertical - SWR
Don I should have mentioned that 1.9 or 1.89mhz is a very good figure to aim for before adding the hairpin. 73 Clive GM3POI From: Don Kirk [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com] Sent: 20 September 2018 07:51 To: Clive GM3POI Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Toploaded vertical - SWR Hi Clive, Nothing wrong with the hairpin as you mentioned which I really consider to be a high pass L network (which N3QE eluded to) in which the L network capacitance is provided by the antenna (you have to actually shorten the antenna from its resonance dimension in order to provide the required capacitance, and it is a precise value of capacitance you need in order to provide a "perfect match" in conjunction with the precise value of hairpin inductance that's required for the "perfect match"). Great discussion with numerous approaches. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 1:46 PM Clive GM3POI wrote: What I don't understand is why would you use more components than needed. Why a capacitor (possibly vacuum). What is wrong in using a hairpin which also DC shorts the vertical to ground. A combination of hairpin size and top loading will give you 1:1 at your favourite 1.825 or anywhere else. Perhaps WX0B's article needs a reprint in the NCJ. It really is simple just a few microhenries of inductance and you are done. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: 19 September 2018 17:29 To: Herbert Schoenbohm Cc: topband; ash.kf5...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Topband: Toploaded vertical - SWR > > Herb (KV4FZ) mentioned an L network, and that is what I always use. Very > simple, and you just plug you're measured complex impedance values (at the > frequency you want to be resonant) into one of the many online L network > calculators to determine the amount of inductance and capacitance required > for the L network. I normally just wind my own coil for the inductance, > and use high voltage silver mica caps for the capacitor. > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Multiple verticals one feed-point.
Gary as long as the verticals are isolated above ground when not switched in. You should be ok. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: 19 September 2018 20:35 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Multiple verticals one feed-point. My HF antennas are all wire verticals; 20M vertical, 30M vertical, 40M vertical, 80 INV-V & 160 sloper. Using the Ameritron remote coax switch it allows me to select one of these antennas and this allows a match to everything from 160-6 except for 60 meters which I don't use anyway. All are connected to the radial plate which has maybe 40 or so 130' long radials. I use the 160 sloper for 160, 12, 10 & 6M (I now have a 7 el yagi for 6M) This latest thread has me wondering about what would be likely to happen if I didn't use the coax switch and instead ran all the wires off a common feed-point? The only think I can think of that jumps out at me is the possibility of harmonics. Perhaps harmonics are not an issue? I've long used a 40M antenna for 15M as well with no complaints. I used to use a Mor-Gain antenna as a Novice & General and it was a multi band dipole which seemed to work fairly well, but in the sunspot cycle peak back in the late 70's a coat hanger would let you work DX. 73, Gary KA1J _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Toploaded vertical - SWR
What I don't understand is why would you use more components than needed. Why a capacitor (possibly vacuum). What is wrong in using a hairpin which also DC shorts the vertical to ground. A combination of hairpin size and top loading will give you 1:1 at your favourite 1.825 or anywhere else. Perhaps WX0B's article needs a reprint in the NCJ. It really is simple just a few microhenries of inductance and you are done. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: 19 September 2018 17:29 To: Herbert Schoenbohm Cc: topband; ash.kf5...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Topband: Toploaded vertical - SWR > > Herb (KV4FZ) mentioned an L network, and that is what I always use. Very > simple, and you just plug you're measured complex impedance values (at the > frequency you want to be resonant) into one of the many online L network > calculators to determine the amount of inductance and capacitance required > for the L network. I normally just wind my own coil for the inductance, > and use high voltage silver mica caps for the capacitor. > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Air wound coil
Beware not putting the top yard inside small Teflon tubing. You will have an infinitely high Z at the top and potentially lots of KV. It will burn through the support line. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard Beerman Sent: 04 September 2018 17:18 To: Joe Subich, W4TV Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Air wound coil Rick and Bob, Thanks for such swift replies. Looks like I should try to reinforce the 3/8” tubing (it’s pretty short) with a wood dowel or perhaps with smaller or larger aluminum tubing. Then the fishing line method should be a perfect solution using 24 or 26 gauge wire. Using this method, I think a hairpin loop at the base of the vertical will help me achieve resonance. Thanks again. Dick W5AK > On Sep 4, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Richard Beerman wrote: > > Top Banders, This discussion has been tremendously helpful to me as I also > am going to put a DX Engineering 68’ vertical when the QRN subsides here in > South Texas. Initially, I planned to install a large inductor (looks like it > came from a BC transmitter) that I found at a local hamfest. My calculation > is that this inductor has around 43 micro henries. According to various > contributors, this is not a good solution. I actually did the same back > around 1972 with a Hytower on 160 meters! It did work with a pathetic ground > system and 40-50 watts from a Ranger II. > > Anyway, here is my question…. my vertical has 3/8” tubing at the top. Pretty > flimsy to connect top loading wires except maybe small gauge wire. I am not > sure how well small gauge wire will handle voltages that may appear at the > top of a 68’ vertical. So, as an alternative, much like the Hytower does > today, what would happen if I installed top loading wires of a larger gauge > lower on the antenna where the tubing is more substantial? Any suggestions > regarding where the top loading could be connected on the vertical and > approximate length of the top loading wires? > > Thanks, Dick W5AK > >> On Sep 3, 2018, at 1:41 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> >> >>> Getting to six would result in a smaller top hat but may not be >>> worth the mechanical hassle. >> If the mast has traditional three way guying, the mechanical hassle >> for a six wire top hat may not be that much greater than a four wire >> top hat. >> >> If the top hat wires slope downward, keeping them to the minimum >> length will result in maximum efficiency (and minimum "shielding" of >> the top of the vertical element). >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV >> >> >> On 2018-09-03 7:20 AM, Paul Christensen wrote: >>> I ran the same model in 4Nec2 as below but changed the hat from the >>> traditional two wires to four, spaced 90 degs. Complex base Z is near >>> 16+j0. Even though two symmetrical top-hat wires produce little radiation, >>> four wires result in wires that are only 24 ft long to achieve resonance -- >>> versus 41 ft with only two wires. Getting to six would result in a smaller >>> top hat but may not be worth the mechanical hassle. >>>> "4Nec2 shows that with a 68 ft. thin radiator, resonance can be achieved >>>> with wires roughly 41 ft. per side. With a ground field of 60 radials, 90 >>>> ft long on sandy ground, 4Nec2 reports a base impedance of 15.4+j2.5." >>> Paul, W9AC >> >> >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Capacitive vs. Inductive Matching of Inverted 'L'/'T'
Tom the name comes from the inductance used on Yagi's as a Hairpin match simply because it looks like one. When used on a vertical it simply goes from the bottom of the insulated conductor to ground. Are you using a PI- L network in the PA for a start. I would worry about harmonic content as a separate issue to the best way to configure the L or T. Again a simple coax stub could fix the problem. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom Boucher Sent: 03 September 2018 18:16 To: 160 reflector Subject: Topband: Capacitive vs. Inductive Matching of Inverted 'L'/'T' I used to use a slightly shortened 'L' with a small inductor at the base until I was told by LA5HE that he could hear me on 80 as well as 160! Using capacitor matching forms a low pass network which will reduce harmonic radiation. The inductor method forms a high pass L-network. BTW, why is it called a 'hairpin' inductor? Looks nothing like a hairpin, or does it? 73, Tom G3OLB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Air wound coil
Or better still, Shorten the L until it is self resonant at 1.9mhz, thereby lowering the amount of horizontal polarisation. Then use a simple hairpin coil across the feedline typically around 5microhenries. This will then when chosen correctly match at your chosen ideal spot say 1825. And provide a DC short to ground for the antenna. No Caps needed. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom Boucher Sent: 02 September 2018 18:20 To: 160 reflector Subject: Topband: Air wound coil Bob W7RH - you don't need expensive hard-to-find vacuum capacitors to match a quarter wave 'L' or 'T' on top band. I use cheap multilayer high voltage disc ceramics and these have been working perfectly at QRO levels with my inverted 'L' for years. I use 1600pF made up from 1000pF + 470pF + 220pf all rated at 6.3KV and available (over here) from CPC at less than $4 for 10. Antenna is slightly longer than a quarter wave so it is inductive and the capacitors form the other part of the L-match network. 73, Tom G3OLB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Air Wound Coil
Trevor, You do not make it clear whether you want to match the antenna with a hairpin match or with an L match. I find with a hairpin that the inductance does not change much from the needed but the top loading will need adjusting. You may find it better to put the 1:1 point at something like 1.830 then you should be ok from the low end up to 1850 dependent on how good or poor your ground system really is. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of MR TREVOR DUNNE Sent: 31 August 2018 07:49 Cc: topband List Subject: Re: Topband: Air Wound Coil Thanks again for all the replies Guys, I am running so late on getting ready for this season I am just looking for a quick and easy way out, I'll get the vertical up and see what I need, I might be over complicating things as usual, Thanks Trevor EI2GLB - Original Message - From: "MR TREVOR DUNNE" Cc: "topband List" Sent: Thursday, 30 August, 2018 21:03:09 Subject: Re: Topband: Air Wound Coil Thanks for the replies I want to be able to tap it at various points to allow for some movement up the band, I don't actually know how much inductance as I don't have the antenna in place yet, I wound a Homebrew coil last year but I fancied something tidier this time, I was planning to install it in a nice enclosure and have some relays to switch the taps ect, MFJ don't seem to have a contact email on there site it just says to order and wait to see if it is in stock don't fancy waiting a few months more it's been 4 already, Thanks Trevor EI2GLB - Original Message - From: MR TREVOR DUNNE To: ''topband List' Sent: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 07:44:04 +0100 (IST) Subject: Topband: Air Wound Coil Hi All I'm looking for an Air wondering coil like in this link, http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=404-0669 I've had one on order from MFJ via a UK company for 4 months now and no sign of it, I want to build a at matching network for my 160m inverted T using it or something similar, Can anyone tell me where I can get one of these or similar that is in stock today, I don't have access to the tools/parts to wind one my self, Thanks Trevor EI2GLB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Question about KH1 to EU QSO possibilities with respect to auroral oval
Rick, I live at about 59 deg North and also have operated from T2 and T32 of which T32 must be similar to KH1. At T32 my guess on propagation is that we could expect in a 4 week on air trip, four EU openings of one sort or another. On that basis the KH1 trip may get one or none, on a short expedition in terms of 160 on air time. My gut feeling is common darkness or coinciding SR/SS is needed on these paths. The Path of course would probably be skewed over the US and or over SA if LP. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard (Rick) Karlquist Sent: 14 July 2018 16:50 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Question about KH1 to EU QSO possibilities with respect to auroral oval There was a lot of discussion about the Baker Is. Dxpedition implying that the main impediment as to where they could work was mutual darkness. Here in W6, we have many hours of mutual darkness with EU, yet we rarely hear EU on 160 or even 80 meters. (Except 80 meter long path during our morning). The auroral oval hypothesis seems to be proven by the fact that we can still work the Azores and northern Africa, and maybe just barely southern Portugal, but nothing farther north. Except for occasional exceptional propagation, during which EU becomes a chip shot for the night. Why should anyone expect to have KH1 to EU propagation directly over the north pole even in the presence of mutual darkness, except as a rare fluke? 73 Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Straws in the Wind ....A 160m Dx'ing Sea Change is Upon us!
Don, seeing your trip is midsummer, you should strongly consider using FT8 for EU on 40m as to Western EU there is NO common darkness. Otherwise the lowest band Western EU will be able to work KH1 is 30m. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Greenbaum Sent: 30 March 2018 13:27 To: k...@aol.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Straws in the Wind A 160m Dx'ing Sea Change is Upon us! Jeff, and others: From K1JT on the WSJT web pages and instructions: Please note: DXpedition Mode is not yet ready for production use. Until WSJT-X v1.9.0 is fully released, this mode should be used only in controlled test situations. Please remember to send us your test results. As one of the beta testers and one of the two stations running the next test on 7 April (W1/KH7Z) the problem with RR73 being sent before a good QSO is logged has been fixed. There are other errors we ascertained in March that are addressed in the next test. The KH1 team has been working for close to 6 months with the WSJT developers to make a more efficient DXpedition version of the software and the current plans for our Baker Island DXpedition is to use FT8 as a replacement for RTTY on 17 20 and 30 mtrs. We will also operate RTTY to give those who need a digital QSO but haven't migrated to FT8 yet a shot. We have a dedicated digital station with its own antennas. It should be noted, there is no 160 mtr antenna at this digital station, the 160 meter antenna developed by AA7JV is at the cw tent. It is our intention to use cw as the primary mode on 160. As for 6 meters, your observations are correct. On July 6, I worked SO1WS on cw followed by 9K2GS in JT65. Then FT8's new version came out and all my e-skip dx contacts were on FT8. The bands were empty at the low end. Even JT65 seemed to disappear overnight. The past week while 160 appeared empty the FT8 frequency was full of stations making QSOs. I worked a good number of Europeans on FT8 never using more than 100 watts. Just for fun I worked 5B4AMX calling first with 5 watts and finally snagging him with 20 watts. A QSO on 80 mtrs with A71AM on FT8 was accomplished on one call with 100 watts. Yes, change is in the air, and I hope CW remains the primary mode for DX. BUT, it's up to the dx isn't it? Spark was replaced by CW. AM by SSB. Not without debate. FT8 is here to stay for weak signal work. I'm surprised to see all the USA/USA QSOs on 160 but activity on 160 is a good thing period in my view. Tune into 14105 on 7 June at 14:00 UTC and see what he hope is the final test of the DXpedition WSJT software. I'll be running W1/KH7Z. And we hope to work as many of you from KH1 on 160 cw. While June is not optimal, it's the timeframe chosen by FWS and we expect to make lemonade from lemons. Don N1DG www.baker2018.net At 07:50 AM 3/30/2018, you wrote: >Hello Gang I am probably not the only one who has been paying >attention lately, but I may be the first to comment directly on what >has been taking place right before our eyes the past two nights on >1.836kHz - and its possible implications going forward for future >Dx'ing on 160m. Pls read on.  I am sure most readers of these pages >are well aware of the current dx'pedition to Malawi operating as >7Q7EI. Norbert DJ7JC has been a real trooper working the lowbands and >has had quite a bit of success doing so - so well deserved kudos & >thanks to Norbert.  Norbert has managed to make quite a few NA >stations happy with a NEW ONE on Topband and we all very much >appreciate his efforts - well done Norbert - thank you!  So what I >am about to comment on next IN NO WAY is an negative opinion on Norbert >- it is just an observation as to what is now occurring and its >possible implications for all of us who like to work DX on 160M!.  On >or about 27 March, Norbert tried 160M CW operating on 1830kHz - in his >grayline period >- and was heard by a number of stations including NO3M and me here at >VY2ZM. Others were in there too perhaps - Kaz K8KS may have been >another and a few more as well. I also heard some EU stations in >there calling among the NA stations.  About 0228z, Norbert asnwered >me as UY2ZM - went QRZ a few times but QRNN on his side prevented a >legitimate qso. I heard him fine but I know he did not copy my >callsign correctly - and later he even said so over ON4KST noting "I >heard a few callers, mainly from EU but logged no NA or EU qso's on >Topband - so I went back to 80M CW as the sun came up."  The next >night Norbert came on ON4KST  chat and announced that he was going to >try 1836 using the new FT8 Dx'pedition mode now in beta trials >following its release by K1JT. I am told that the dx'pedition version >of FT8 will al
Re: Topband: Conditions on 160m for ARRL Contest
I'd hazard a guess at UA1. They do start fairly close to the bottom of the US band (currently hearing one on a simple antenna on 1804.9 and they do go higher than has been mentioned 1825+. However the strength seems to tail off above 1818 or so. The important thing to remember is these can be loud in EU, often S9 here and they repeat at about every 0.82khz making the selection of an expedition run frequency or even a contest run qrg very important. If you are in the Pacific and you don’t make plans for these signals you may get lost in the QRM within EU. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of k1zm--- via Topband Sent: 19 February 2018 22:30 To: f6...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Conditions on 160m for ARRL Contest Hello Gang I think these signals (which we call the "O O O" beacons because they send "DAH DAH DAH" - "DAH DAH DAH" over and over - are some kind of navigation beacons in the Eastern BALTIC. I have heard them starting as high in the band as 1818 (or so - maybe not a precise starting point) - and on a really good night I can hear the weaker ones down to as low as 1806 and 1803. (or so). On a really good evening this past week, I heard them (I think) as low as 1801 - but that is a really weak one. Curiously, they are not on the air every night - because there are often days at a time when they are not operational - or I would surely hear them - from where I am located. They have been on as long as I can remember - they were around in 1977 as I recall - when we all used to hang out and rag chew on 1812 SSB - the old guys from the nets of those days have mostly passed away now - EI8H, GD4BEG etc, - but a few are still with us including AA0RS (G3SZA) and Willem PA0HIP who now lives in DU as I recall. FWIW - BTW - based on how loud the UPPER ones are from 1814-1818 over here - I would think they must be at least 40db over S9 in WESTERN EU - and spaced every 3-4 kHz apart - they peak at about S9+5 or so here at VY2ZM, 73 jeff. Jeff Briggs DXing on the Edge: The Thrill of 160 Meters Available worldwide through BookBaby, Array Solutions, DX Engineering, Royal Society of Great Britain, & Amazon Original Message From: F6FYA via Topband <topband@contesting.com> To: topband <topband@contesting.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 19, 2018 9:10 pm Subject: Re: Topband: Conditions on 160m for ARRL Contest I'm a New member of the "Topband list"I agree with Roger for the QRM at the bottom of the band. I don't know what they are, fishnet or beacons, but it's getting very hard to call CQ on this part of the band. By the way, for me in the central west part of France, conditions was much better friday night. Working with vertical ant, 21 m, and beverage. So, sorry with my poor english, but a pleasure to read differents messages from the list's members. Jean-Paul / F6FYA.Envoyé de mon smartphone BlackBerry 10 sur le réseau Orange depuis La Touraine, Dpt 37. Message d'origine De: Roger KennedyEnvoyé: lundi 19 février 2018 14:34À: topband@contesting.comObjet: Topband: Conditions on 160m for ARRL ContestWell on Friday night I couldn't hear one single American station . . . eventhough I heard a couple of Southern Europe stations working a few.Saturday night conditions were better, but signals were well down on whatthey have been for the past few weeks.However, in the 3 hours I spent on the band (at different times in thenight) I did manage to work 61 American stations . . . including a few inBrazil and the Caribbean.For future reference, here in Britain there are about 6 Navigation Beaconsbetween 1810 and 1818 kHz (they sound like the old Decca HiFix) . . . thesemake copying weak signals VERY difficult, so a good idea to avoid this partof the band !Roger G3YRO_Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband_Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: ARRL 160
Trevor, The good news it is relatively not difficult for you to work 200. By
tracking Dxpeditions and being capable of receiving. Beyond that things get
difficult, or at least certainly over 250. This only applies to EU (You).
Unfortunately noise is likely to be the killer of what's left of 160 in EU
as well as anyone else using some of the mass produced noise generators. 73
Clive GM3POI
-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of MR TREVOR
DUNNE
Sent: 08 December 2017 20:24
To: donov...@starpower.net
Cc: topband List
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160
Thanks everyone for the replies, unfortunately I only have the small space I
have available to me, So I will have to try my best to get the most I can
out of what I have,
If it was easy it would be no fun as the say,
My current system has netted me over 40 new DXCC's in the last few weeks to
bring my tally to over 100 so my goal to achieve DXCC is reached, I just
need to confirm them all now, I will also continue to add to my tally but
the pressure is off now,
160 was my 10th band to achieve DXCC on, Time to think about 2m EME in the
future
73
Trevor
EI2GLB
- Original Message -
From: donov...@starpower.net
To: "topband List" <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, 7 December, 2017 20:35:18
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160
Hi Trevor,
I looked at your QRZ.COM page and I'm concerned that your tower and Yagis
may be degrading the performance of your nearby 160 meter vertical. It can
contribute unwanted nulls and unwanted ground loss. What is the height of
your tower to the top of your mast?
Small loop antennas ("magnetic loops") such as the Wellbrook are great for
nulling local RFI, but they're low performance receiving antennas for DXers
as you've discovered. Beverages are very effective receiving antennas but
their directivity will be degraded by a nearby 160 meter vertical and
perhaps your tower too.
Its will take a great deal of wire to improve your existing radial system
even marginally, perhaps four times more wire than in your current radial
system.
73
Frank Donovan
W3LPL
- Original Message -
From: "MR TREVOR DUNNE" <ei2...@eircom.net>
To: donov...@starpower.net
Cc: g...@ka1j.com, "topband List" <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 8:19:04 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160
I understand that I have to improve my RX antennas as currently I find the
TX antenna is better on RX that both of my current RX antennas, While I get
a good reduction in noise floor on the RX antenna's the DX just isn't
workable on them
The TX antenna is 55ft of Aluminum Tube It tapers from 2.25" to 1" at the
top, I have 2 top loading wires each 50ft long tied off to Tall trees in the
distance, The ends of the top loading wires are approximately 45ft high, I'm
using a 4" diameter coil double tapped to get Resonance and to match the
feedline to 50ohms,
I have currently 48 radials mostly between 15-25m long, I hope to improve
this greatly in the spring before the grass starts to grow again,
RX antennas are a Wellbrook loop and a 450ft Beverage pointing NE for JA/OC
I need to put something up for NA and hope to do this over the holiday
period ready for CQ160 in the new year,
Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB
- Original Message -
From: donov...@starpower.net
To: "MR TREVOR DUNNE" <ei2...@eircom.net>
Cc: g...@ka1j.com, "topband List" <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, 7 December, 2017 15:22:26
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160
Hi Trevor,
Please share with us the details of your antenna and ground system Better
transmit performance should be achievable
73
Frank
W3LPL
- Original Message -
From: MR TREVOR DUNNE ei2...@eircom.net
To: g...@ka1j.com
Cc: ''topband List'' topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 18:44:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160
Running 1kw to a 55ft top loaded vertical over a decent radial field I found
many many stations that I could hear quiet well that could not hear me, it's
very disheartening,
Is it my system or there's that's not working.
I'm already planning improvements for next year to try to improve my tx
performance,
Trevor
EI2GLB
- Original Message -
From: Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 21:25:26 - (GMT)
Subject: Topband: ARRL 160
This is the first major contest that I
have taken part in a while, at least to the extent I actually put a real
effort into it. Its taken a bit to get back in the game after my friend Pat
became a SK this year. That said, I almost matched my score from two years
ago when the band conditions were for me, far better for DX than this
weekend.
I was running QRP with a less than ideal antenna yet still managed 535 QSOs.
It was frustrating to hear so much DX and not be able to have them hear me.
I'm guessing
Re: Topband: Big 160m openings just before K index spikes
Yes Lee I guess we have all seen as in my case enhancement from here to VK under those conditions including places like KH0, JD1 etc. locals for you guys. However the very best of conditions I have seen is when the K index stays very low at 0 or max 1 for several days. Then the big US openings can happen and I can end up working all states in a week contest. If it times correctly with a contest. Bring it on. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee STRAHAN Sent: 08 December 2017 17:38 To: topBand List Subject: Topband: Big 160m openings just before K index spikes I have also seen big openings here in Oregon just prior to a big solar event. If I recall correctly it was when I worked the A4 which is huge from the Pacific Northwest. Lee K7TJR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Any recommendation for vertical
Before worrying about the type of antenna, you should evaluate the needed ground system. As without an effective ground system the actual antenna is of little consequence. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Elan Paim Sent: 07 December 2017 08:11 To: Topband Subject: Topband: Any recommendation for vertical Hi Is any one have any experience with Vertical fir160/80 m ? I think zero five have some. But not sure however if I can built my salfe it will be great Thank you kind Happy holiday to all Vy 73 elan g0uut _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: FT-8 question
My plan is to add four active verticals each feeding back to my house. They will be spaced over the entire 7 acres I have here. My hope is I can pick the vertical that carries the highest noise content and then cancel that noise from my various RX antennas. If I find I have an existing RX antenna that is aiming at a noise source then I may use that as well. The days of trying to deal with noise sources is near over. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Grant Saviers Sent: 03 December 2017 04:14 To: Jim Thomson; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: FT-8 question Hi Jim, Well, yes on the 5 acres, but still suburban. But, I do notice that FT8 on the vertical 160 T often decodes as well as my DXE 4 sq receive which has directivity and thus less noise. Same comment from another op here locally. I don't see any advantage to subsegment filtering, and in fact I think a wide bandwidth DSP/IF will have less phase distortion. That's what the FT8 "manual" says also. I run "wide open" 3 KHz on my Pro3 and don't see any problems other than AGC pumping and desense from locals. (its hard to turn on/off AGC completely). I checked out 160 tonight with the cw contest on, FT8 decoded most of the FT8 signals even with CW all over the FT8 "segment". (let's not revisit THAT!!) Listening on your 80m dipole will probably help, it did for me at another QTH. Then there is all the advice from N4IS. It is also fascinating to watch the FT8 decoder pretty much ignore the woodpecker on 80m when I work 80m AM greyline into Asia from here (Seattle). Grant KZ1W On 12/2/2017 9:07 AM, Jim Thomson wrote: > Folks on FT-8 use a 2.5 khz ssb wide RX filter.FT-8 is supposed to be good for 20 db below the noise floor. > I assume that means 20 db below the noise floor of the 2.5 khz RX filter ? > > But a 250 hz cw filter would drop the noise floor by 10 db... vs the 2.5 khz wider filter... if CW mode used. > > So if Im reading this correctly, FT-8 mode, using a 2.5 khz filteris really only 10 db better than a 250 hz cw filter, using cw mode ? > > If that is the case, being able to copy signals 10 db weaker than the noise floor of a 250 hz filter is still nothing to sneeze at. > > The issue I see with FT-8.. on any band is the requirement for a 2.5 khz filter and possibly being prone to qrm. > > Right now, my issue is extreme high noise levels on 160m... on a 100 by 130 city lot.Point a semi directional RX ant in the desired direction and its > also pointed at a noise source. Seems like I am surrounded by noise on 160m. Im going to drag out by noise canceller and try some more rx experiments, > b4 I throw in the towel.FT-8 might just be an option for folks like myself that are plagued with high levels of noise. Another possible option might be > the use of real time remote RX. Another possible option might be using my 80m rotary dipole for 160m RX. As is, its infuriating listening to high noise > levels on 160m. If I cant hear on 160m...except for the usual louder stations, Im not going to even try TX. > > I have tried using a pair of 500 hz filters, and also a pair of 250 hz filters, and also a 125 + 250 combo, in both my MK-V..and also 1000-D. > The MK-V also has a 240-120-60hz dsp filter. The 1000-D has a tunable audio cw filter. The problem with the narrow xtal filters is... > with noise levels so high, the noise... rings out the filters. The signals coming out of each filter... get stretched a bit in time duration. > What Im left with is this mess whereby the desired signals + noise end up all mashed together. Typ noise on 160m, using a 2.4 filter > is S9 to S9 + 10 db. Right now, Im trying to evaluate if 160m is even worth the effort required. Are the rest of you on 5 acres out in the woods ? > > Jim VE7RF > > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 160 inverted L radials question
Jimmy, You could do that but it would not work very well. You need the maximum radial density under the vertical. Were they full sized radials or just odd lengths.? 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of james soto via Topband Sent: 28 November 2017 13:26 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 160 inverted L radials question Hi folks:Iam in the process to reinstall an inverted L antenna. Due to the category 5 hurricane that passthru the island of ST.CROIX usvi i loss 2 towers and antennas.one of the towers use to support and inverted L antenna for 160 with radials all over the tower. I will reinstall the inverted L on a different location about 25 or 30 feet away from the original location.my question is could i use the same radials from the previous location just running one wire attach to the radial system to the new inverted Lground section? ThanksKP2BH/Jimmy _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 160 inverted L radials question
-Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of james soto via Topband Sent: 28 November 2017 13:26 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 160 inverted L radials question Hi folks:Iam in the process to reinstall an inverted L antenna. Due to the category 5 hurricane that passthru the island of ST.CROIX usvi i loss 2 towers and antennas.one of the towers use to support and inverted L antenna for 160 with radials all over the tower. I will reinstall the inverted L on a different location about 25 or 30 feet away from the original location.my question is could i use the same radials from the previous location just running one wire attach to the radial system to the new inverted Lground section? ThanksKP2BH/Jimmy _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Short Verticals
Eznec is your friend Dave. Having used a previously short Vertical 51ft for 20+ years, the top loading is not your problem. Because the feed Z is low you will require longer radials. Mine are typically 0.4 wavelengths. I will stand corrected but the formula is E (efficiency) = Feed Z/ Feed Z plus loss (the loss being mainly ground loss) So typically with a short vertical we could have 12/ 12+ plus loss which could be any amount dependent on your radial system. The only way to deal with this is either by a vast radial system or a taller vertical. In the end it's all a numbers game. 73 Clive GM3POI (306 current confirmed) -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David Cole via Topband Sent: 13 June 2017 21:08 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Short Verticals Hi all - Assuming a standard 1/4 wave vertical is 36 ohms - is there any formula that will calculate the Z if the vertical is short and brought to resonance by top loading wires - I understand the Z will be less - but how much by ? I am trying to use the formula on ON4UN disc to calculate the approx LC ratios for a Lahlum-Lewallen phasing system. Thanks Dave g3rcq _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: New user, some advice needed.
Pat can I suggest an easier way, Given something close to quarter wave or even much shorter but top loaded, the way to approach it, is as follows. Construct the vertical to be somewhere close to resonance at 1.9mhz or slightly below, then add a hairpin coil directly across the feed point to bring the SWR at 1825 to 1:1. Much much easier than linear (low Q ) loading and will match easily. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Armstrong Sent: 21 December 2016 20:43 To: W0MU Mike Fatchett Cc: topband@contesting.com; Petronel Postolache Subject: Re: Topband: New user, some advice needed. I have noticed several times that people talk about being able to put up a full .250 wavelength vertical and I have wondered why almost never do they think about making it .270 wavelength instead of .250 wavelength. The little extra length gives a feed point impedance of 52 ohms with some inductive reactance which can be canceled with a series capactor. This gives a more efficient feed than a .250 wavelength and using an inductor to get a match. I designed my 75/80m vertical this way and with 65 radials ( odd number 'cause that's all the wire I had) it has allowed me to work 280 entities with100 watts, all SSB. (Blasphemy I know, I have an ear condition which made 13 wpm almost impossible for me). I also use this antenna on 160m by using linear loading and an inductor for matching. Linear loading seems to be overlooked in a lot of discussions of antennas on this list and I wonder why. Am I missing a downside to these matching systems? If so I would like to hear about it. Pat Armstrong KF5YZ Heart of Texas On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 12:00 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w...@w0mu.com> wrote: > https://www.dxengineering.com/search/product-line/dx-enginee > ring-160-meter-thunderbolt-vertical-antennas?autoview= > SKU=160%20vertical=BestKeywordMatch=Ascending > > > On 12/20/2016 10:24 AM, Petronel Postolache wrote: > >> I can't find the Vertical from DX Engineering. If you can send me a >> link it will be great. >> One solution might be top hat vertical, similar with >> http://dl2kq.de/ant/3-1.htm . Not sure how much power is lost in the >> matching unit L1, C1. >> >> I would love a Waller Flag too. Imposible to buy one from here (too >> expensive) but I might wanna try build one. Preamp will be the >> biggest problem. >> >> Petronel >> YO8SEP / YP8W >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 9:30 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w...@w0mu.com >> <mailto:w...@w0mu.com>> wrote: >> >> Check out DX Engineering. They sell a vertical that uses 3 top >> hat wires. Sloping back down is ok. For 80/160 you need to stop >> the 80m energy with a coil/trap My 80 uses a very fast taper and >> the top is only 3/8 inch or less so It cannot support a coil or t >> wires. I probably should have planned that out better. I was >> also going to try to phase two 80 elements over time but that will >> not happen any time soon. >> >> With all the metal in the yard the AY loop may not work very >> well. Waller Flag on the roof maybe. I would love one. >> >> W0MU >> >> >> On 12/19/2016 12:24 PM, Petronel Postolache wrote: >> >>> I can try to put a 21-22m (68-70 foot) telescopic aluminium pole, >>> made from pipes 2" to 1" diameter. >>> It will be a bit too long for 1/4 on 80m. I can put a T top hat >>> or run an InvL, but probably need to slope it from 70 foot to >>> about 40 foot. What will be better ? and will I be able to >>> match/use the antenna on 80m also ? >>> >>> About K9AY, I understood that the loop is influenced by close >>> metal objects, and the property is full of wire fences, vineyard >>> rows and other "metal" structures. That's why i was thinking >>> about using some flag/loop at 10 feet or more above ground. >>> >>> 73, Petronel >>> YO8SEP >>> >>> 160 and 80 will be difficult. Can you get another vertical up >>> about 60 feet? You can top load that with a trap for 80 and have >>> "t" wires at the top that also act as guy wires. You can also >>> bottom load for 160 and maybe that will be good enough for you. >>> Radials whatever you can do will help.An Inverted L with about >>> 50ft of vertical will work okIf you can keep the horizontal >>> end up in the air around the same height or more. It doesn't >>> sound like you have any tall trees to work with.For receiving I >>
Re: Topband: New user, some advice needed.
Pat can I suggest an easier way, Given something close to quarter wave or even much shorter but top loaded, the way to approach it, is as follows. Construct the vertical to be somewhere close to resonance at 1.9mhz or slightly below, then add a hairpin coil directly across the feed point to bring the SWR at 1825 to 1:1. Much much easier than linear (low Q ) loading and will match easily. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Armstrong Sent: 21 December 2016 20:43 To: W0MU Mike Fatchett Cc: topband@contesting.com; Petronel Postolache Subject: Re: Topband: New user, some advice needed. I have noticed several times that people talk about being able to put up a full .250 wavelength vertical and I have wondered why almost never do they think about making it .270 wavelength instead of .250 wavelength. The little extra length gives a feed point impedance of 52 ohms with some inductive reactance which can be canceled with a series capactor. This gives a more efficient feed than a .250 wavelength and using an inductor to get a match. I designed my 75/80m vertical this way and with 65 radials ( odd number 'cause that's all the wire I had) it has allowed me to work 280 entities with100 watts, all SSB. (Blasphemy I know, I have an ear condition which made 13 wpm almost impossible for me). I also use this antenna on 160m by using linear loading and an inductor for matching. Linear loading seems to be overlooked in a lot of discussions of antennas on this list and I wonder why. Am I missing a downside to these matching systems? If so I would like to hear about it. Pat Armstrong KF5YZ Heart of Texas On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 12:00 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w...@w0mu.com> wrote: > https://www.dxengineering.com/search/product-line/dx-enginee > ring-160-meter-thunderbolt-vertical-antennas?autoview= > SKU=160%20vertical=BestKeywordMatch=Ascending > > > On 12/20/2016 10:24 AM, Petronel Postolache wrote: > >> I can't find the Vertical from DX Engineering. If you can send me a >> link it will be great. >> One solution might be top hat vertical, similar with >> http://dl2kq.de/ant/3-1.htm . Not sure how much power is lost in the >> matching unit L1, C1. >> >> I would love a Waller Flag too. Imposible to buy one from here (too >> expensive) but I might wanna try build one. Preamp will be the >> biggest problem. >> >> Petronel >> YO8SEP / YP8W >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 9:30 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w...@w0mu.com >> <mailto:w...@w0mu.com>> wrote: >> >> Check out DX Engineering. They sell a vertical that uses 3 top >> hat wires. Sloping back down is ok. For 80/160 you need to stop >> the 80m energy with a coil/trap My 80 uses a very fast taper and >> the top is only 3/8 inch or less so It cannot support a coil or t >> wires. I probably should have planned that out better. I was >> also going to try to phase two 80 elements over time but that will >> not happen any time soon. >> >> With all the metal in the yard the AY loop may not work very >> well. Waller Flag on the roof maybe. I would love one. >> >> W0MU >> >> >> On 12/19/2016 12:24 PM, Petronel Postolache wrote: >> >>> I can try to put a 21-22m (68-70 foot) telescopic aluminium pole, >>> made from pipes 2" to 1" diameter. >>> It will be a bit too long for 1/4 on 80m. I can put a T top hat >>> or run an InvL, but probably need to slope it from 70 foot to >>> about 40 foot. What will be better ? and will I be able to >>> match/use the antenna on 80m also ? >>> >>> About K9AY, I understood that the loop is influenced by close >>> metal objects, and the property is full of wire fences, vineyard >>> rows and other "metal" structures. That's why i was thinking >>> about using some flag/loop at 10 feet or more above ground. >>> >>> 73, Petronel >>> YO8SEP >>> >>> 160 and 80 will be difficult. Can you get another vertical up >>> about 60 feet? You can top load that with a trap for 80 and have >>> "t" wires at the top that also act as guy wires. You can also >>> bottom load for 160 and maybe that will be good enough for you. >>> Radials whatever you can do will help.An Inverted L with about >>> 50ft of vertical will work okIf you can keep the horizontal >>> end up in the air around the same height or more. It doesn't >>> sound like you have any tall trees to work with.For receiving I >>
Re: Topband: Traditional or off-center fed 160m vertical design?
Rob, An off set top loading will radiate unlike a balanced top loading. Far better to eliminate Horizontal radiation unless you want to be louder within a couple of hundred miles. Resonate the vertical at say 1.89, then place a hairpin coil across the feed point to bring the antenna to 1:1 at the wanted operating frequency. Your proposed antenna will need a good feed point choke. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Robert Fanfant Sent: 06 November 2016 19:17 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Traditional or off-center fed 160m vertical design? I am planning on putting up a 160m T vertical next week. After doing some modeling , I would like your thoughts concerning using a traditional ¼ vertical design, versus an off center fed design. My modeling of the traditional designs approaches 36-38 ohms of real impedance while the off center fed design shows I can obtain close to 50 ohms of real impedance. Details: Trees on my property are roughly 143’ tall and I can’t use ground mounted radials for a variety of reasons. I found I can get up to 110’ feet of usable vertical length, assuming radials @ 20’ off the ground. The antenna will be suspended between trees. I’ve discovered through modeling using elevated radials at 20’ , a 110 vertical section. By varying both the radial and T top section lengths , I can design a 160m vertical which approaches 50 ohms of real impedance , using an off center fed design. It exhibits excellent characteristics from what the modeling shows. Based on the modeling I’m leaning towards the off center fed design primarily because It has a lower SWR at resonance (1.83Mhz) than the traditional vertical, and removes the need for building/adding a matching network if I only want to cover the lower portion of the band (CW). Thoughts? -rob N7QT Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: inv. L
Yes Art, a relay on both will stop interaction between the antennas also it will help prevent noise being induced into any RX antenna. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Art Snapper Sent: 17 October 2016 15:17 To: 160 Subject: Topband: inv. L I was considering adding a second vertical element to my 160 inverted L. This one would be roughly a quarter wave tall for use on 80. I tried modelling in Eznec, but wasn't comfortable with the results. I may have screwed it up. Has anyone tried it for real? Is it a big compromise on either band? Would a switch at the feedpoint have any benefit? My inverted L has about 50 radials. 73 Art NK8X _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Soldering radials?
Rick I have after soldering painted the soldered joints with Scotchkote. I guess silver solder would be better but a pain. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard (Rick) Karlquist Sent: 12 October 2016 15:53 To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Soldering radials? I'd like to get the latest thinking from the group on soldering radials. What I currently thinking is as follows: SOLDER SELECTION: 1. Tin lead doesn't hold up in the weather. 2. "Stay Brite" 3% silver solder (97% tin, no lead) is known to work well, but is expensive, and has a considerably higher melting point than 63/37. 3. Lead free plumber's solder obviously works in water pipes, but does it hold up outdoors in the rain? What is the melting point? FLUX SELECTION: 1. Pure rosin. Hardest to work with, but minimum corrosion issues. 2. Activated rosin. Easier to work with. What corrosion issues are there? 3. Acid core plumber's flux. Very easy to work with, very corrosive. Does this hold up in the rain, etc? (I remember the dire warnings that Heathkit manuals had about not using acid core solder, but I guess that doesn't apply to radials.) CRIMPING? Has anyone tried crimping as an alternative to solder? Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: aluminum "penetrating oil"
Rod, The best type I have come across is PB Blaster (made in Ohio), best left overnight in difficult situations and another spray in the morning. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Roger Graves Sent: 01 August 2016 22:51 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: aluminum "penetrating oil" I need to separate KLH 3 inch aluminum boom sections. When assembled 20 years ago I used Penetrox on them so hopefully they are not welded together. In fact one of them separated 1/2 inch then stuck. Would there be a "penetrating oil" that would help to free/lubricate these joints to make the separation easier? Thanks and 73, Rod, VE7VV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: 259- 1/2" link
This is the link I used http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262144126639?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 <http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262144126639?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 ame=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT> =STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT 73 Clive GM3POI _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: UHF Male connector for 1/2" cellflex
This is the link I used http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262144126639?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 <http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262144126639?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT> =STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT 73 Clive GM3POI From: Bob K6UJ [mailto:k...@pacbell.net] Sent: 04 June 2016 04:40 To: topband Cc: Clive GM3POI Subject: Re: Topband: UHF Male connector for 1/2" cellflex Thanks everyone for info on a source for the UHF connectors. This is a great forum, help is here, all you gotta do is ask ! :-) Bob K6UJ On 6/3/16 8:20 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PL259-UHF-male-1-2-for-Corrugated-copper-Standard-Andrew-Heliax-connector-QW-/321943672180?hash=item4af5569574:g:wKwAAOSw9uFW9Pfh _ From: "Clive GM3POI" <mailto:gm3p...@btinternet.com> <gm3p...@btinternet.com> To: "Greg Zenger" <mailto:n...@gregzenger.com> <n...@gregzenger.com>, "Bob K6UJ" <mailto:k...@pacbell.net> <k...@pacbell.net> Cc: "topband" <mailto:topband@contesting.com> <topband@contesting.com> Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 11:15:11 PM Subject: Re: Topband: UHF Male connector for 1/2" cellflex Check out Chinarf on ebay, I have just bought 10 off PL259 Plugs to LDF4-50 for about $4.5 delivered. High quality product. Do a search for UHF Plug or UHF plug to 1/2" corrugated copper. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Greg Zenger Sent: 03 June 2016 22:53 To: Bob K6UJ Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: UHF Male connector for 1/2" cellflex Bob, Take a look at RFU502-H1 from RF industries. They sell for ~$35 each new. I don't have experience with that particular connector, but I suspect it will work just fine with your cable. Otherwise the RFS connectors like the ones in your link are super easy to install. I've installed about a hundred of them over the years. Greg, N2GZ On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Bob K6UJ <mailto:k...@pacbell.net> <k...@pacbell.net> wrote: > > I need to have a PL-259 type connector on one end of a 1/2" cellflex > cable I am making up. I have an N connector on one end, no problem. > I like the EZfit connectors and was hoping to find one for UHF male > (PL-259) > > I can get another N connector and then get a N to PL-259 adapter but I > would prefer to not have an adapter if possible. I did find one > (below) its not an Andrew EZfit but looks to be about the same thing. > Know of other options ? > > http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/rfs-734745-5804.html > > Bob > K6UJ > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: UHF Male connector for 1/2" cellflex
Check out Chinarf on ebay, I have just bought 10 off PL259 Plugs to LDF4-50 for about $4.5 delivered. High quality product. Do a search for UHF Plug or UHF plug to 1/2" corrugated copper. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Greg Zenger Sent: 03 June 2016 22:53 To: Bob K6UJ Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: UHF Male connector for 1/2" cellflex Bob, Take a look at RFU502-H1 from RF industries. They sell for ~$35 each new. I don't have experience with that particular connector, but I suspect it will work just fine with your cable. Otherwise the RFS connectors like the ones in your link are super easy to install. I've installed about a hundred of them over the years. Greg, N2GZ On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Bob K6UJ <k...@pacbell.net> wrote: > > I need to have a PL-259 type connector on one end of a 1/2" cellflex > cable I am making up. I have an N connector on one end, no problem. > I like the EZfit connectors and was hoping to find one for UHF male > (PL-259) > > I can get another N connector and then get a N to PL-259 adapter but I > would prefer to not have an adapter if possible. I did find one > (below) its not an Andrew EZfit but looks to be about the same thing. > Know of other options ? > > http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/rfs-734745-5804.html > > Bob > K6UJ > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: K5P signal strength
And what should they be working, in the hour before Western EU SR, JA No, USA No. Give us a break, or do I have to break yet another USA pile up for a new one. Just because an area of the World is audible does not mean they should be worked all the time. Some areas will be there a long time whilst EU will get a bare few hours at best. 73 Clive GM3POI On Fri,1/15/2016 6:11 AM, Les Kalmus wrote: > It's bad enough they were working JA's during this morning's opening As promised, they were on at their sunset (around 0800Z) with a great signal, a fine op, and hearing well. There was an instant pileup, and I heard them working those with better stations east of the Mississippi. From my QTH near San Francisco, I worked them with 5W. That path is roughly like W1 to western EU. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Topband loading coil
Max best Q comes with a box shape of coil, i.e. Length/diameter about the same. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Max Cotton Sent: 06 June 2015 13:43 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Topband loading coil Just chopped the fibreglass webs out and now no change, I would not have thought it would affect this coil, so something else must have altered since two days ago (Had to work) affecting the way the SWR is reacting.Pity, I was pleased with the result, now to try to increase the Q of the coil without altering the resonance, I cannot go longer on the top wire as it would extend over my property boundary, hence the loading coil.73 Max M0GHQ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: radial wire size
Jorge, It is a mechanical issue only, dependent on wire type. I used PVC coated copper and even thinner than #17. My 130 radials have been in situ for about 15 years. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jorge Diez - CX6VM Sent: 15 April 2015 12:11 To: 'topband' Subject: Topband: radial wire size Hello Thinking in a 4 SQ, buried radials, 60 or more on each vertical What is the difference in performance between installing radial wire size #14 (2.08 mm2) or #17 (1.04 mm2) ? #14 is the size that DXE sell, so I think is a good size for radials. But what about #17? In $$$ is the half J, so want to know what I am loosing in performance, if any Thanks in advance 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en busca de virus. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Which 4 directions?
Well Pete, the first 200 is the easy part. I would look at where you are most likely to work new ones, which in your case would be South and EU. I currently have 299 confirmed and my (now) preferred directions would be North Over the Pole for anything in the Pacific and South right through Africa. Just because the remaining Countries with the exception of P5 and BS7H are in those directions . So I suggest you plan along those lines. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Pete Smith N4ZR Sent: 07 April 2015 16:52 To: topband reflector Subject: Topband: Which 4 directions? I'm planning to build and deploy 4 receiving antennasfor 160M this summer - some mix of BOGs, K9AYs, etc.Question is, where would you aim them, from a QTH 60 miles NW of Washington DC. My main objective is to finish my 160M DXCC, now hovering at 72 worked. The quantitative constraint is due to the switching system I have in place. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. For spots, please go to your favorite ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth!
The problem John, with that experiment is it does not tell you what is happening just above the very lowest angle. By modelling you can see that the last lobe to reduce is that contained down near the horizon. We are also interested in the content between 2 degrees up to 20+ degrees. By moving the antenna away from the sea the energy contained in that sector reduces. For example on HF the content between 3-10 degrees is all important. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of j...@kk9a.com Sent: 02 April 2015 15:00 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! I did not recall seeing tests for verticals a wavelength or more way from the sea so I checked the team vertical website and found the following: John KK9A While field testing the verticals this past summer, we decided to test the effect of the land-water boundary on the pseudo Brewster angle. Since our receive site was elevated less than 1 degree across the bay, we could see any change in the low angle energy. To our knowledge, there has not been any published tests of this kind. The goal was to see how far from the water the vertical would loose the benefit of the salt water on the pseudo Brewster angle. The tests were done with a 20m ZR vertical, and we moved the antenna away from the water in 5' steps. The water's edge was considered the reference point. As the vertical was moved back from the water, there was little change until we came close to 1/4 wavelength from the water. At that point there was a 3 dB increase in signal level! Moving farther, the received signal level dropped, indicating a loss of low angle energy. This was most significant at 1/2 wavelength from the boundary, being down about 3dB from the waters edge. Moving farther back to 3/4 wavelength, the signal picked up again, to more than 2dB enhancement from the water's edge. We could not move the antenna farther due to obstructions. During the tests, we did not believe the data, and reran the test. We also observed the same results on the second test. At the time we only had 20m antennas, so we could not confirm that enhancement was truly frequency dependent. But based on these results, more testing is warranted. To: topband@contesting.com Subject:Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! From: Ed Sawyer sawye...@earthlink.net Reply-to: sawye...@earthlink.net Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 13:13:17 -0400 The best write up and data I have seen on this subject was the team vertical report on test done in Jamaica back about 10 or more years ago. As I recall, the vertical signal strength to low angle DX went up dramatically within 2 or less wavelengths of the edge of the high water mark and maybe leveled off as fantastic from within 0.5 wavelength. But further and further away past 2 wavelengths, the signal strengths dropped away and had very diminishing effects. I don't recall how far back before the benefits were disappointing but that article has the answers you need. Just scale it for 160 or 80M vs their 40 - 10M data. By the way, I used a vertical as 9M6/N1UR at Layang Layang island in the Spratlys in 1998. 40 and 30M performance was amazing but 20 - 10 was good but not great. The vertical was placed about 100 feet from the edge of the water. So it would have been just under a wavelength on 40, just over on 30, and 2 - 3 wavelengths on 20 - 10. Ed N1UR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Modeling Ground and losses
Yes Guy, I agree. Another area that is overlooked perhaps through a lack of room is the need with short verticals to have longer radials to get back the system efficiency. Take my own as an example I only use a 51ft vertical which is top loaded. That of course will tell you the antenna is fairly Low Z, in order to get the efficiency back to as high as possible I laid 130 x 0.4 wave radials. With this I know that the effective series ground resistance in my case is about a couple of ohms, and the overall result is good. So the unfortunate reality for amateurs is the shorter the vertical is from a quarter wave, Ideally the longer the radials need to be. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: 24 February 2015 16:07 To: Richard Fry Cc: TopBand List Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling Ground On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 7:36 AM, Richard Fry r...@adams.net wrote: NEC4 produces accurate answers for monopole radiators _not_ using overkill radial systems, as long as the NEC model describes the real world conditions for that system. You wish. You're not considering the situation that everyone is complaining about. NEC x.x does not provide accurate answers for UNDERkill radial systems either. I've never heard of a skilled ham getting trounced on 160 who has a 1/4 wave radiator over an overkill radial system. While it might be argued that the ham really didn't have to put down that much copper, at worst he only wasted money. He's still doing right fine getting out on his highly efficient, if over-coppered antenna, and enjoying it. On the other hand, UNDERkill radial systems, too short, not enough, irregular lengths, non-uniform around the compass, especially over poorer ground, are what NEC x.x also significantly overestimates. Advice had by many, including myself, has really been off. I still am waiting for an apology for some glib advice given, resulting in a couple S units worth of unnecessary loss. I was told some number of times regarding my complaining of really poor results that I must be doing something wrong, as the advice had been verified by professionals and the FCC. I'm still hearing that selfsame blanket unqualified advice. Wrong then. Wrong now. Conversions from underkill radials to something efficient designed for limited space opportunities have generated conversion improvements anywhere from five to twelve dB, based on before and after strings of RBN reports. 7-8 dB is very common in these conversion exercises, raising suspicions of some singular issue not treated correctly or at all in NEC. Underkill radials are proven amplifier neutralizers. NEC does NOT directly calculate ground losses after the fashion of its highly accurate wire and tubing calculations. Sommerfeld and all the rest are tuned APPROXIMATION algorithms that seem well-calibrated only in the commercial BC paradigm. The NEC ground APPROXIMATION tuning misses by wide margins in small lots that are not lucky enough to be in 30 mS superdirt. You can say all you want, but there is now (past tense, already happened) a massive experience among hams who are using new methods to get a decent signal on 160, and they just won't believe the old line any more. They have their own experience in their backyard, and RBN reports, and new signal reports from longtime ham acquaintances well situated to report general changes in signal strength. And they simply don't care if NEC is accurate for commercial grade radial systems. It's a completely useless piece of information for them. Most hams do not have the land and circumstances to put down anything remotely resembling a commercially sized radial system. You're really only talking to property-rich hams, and leaving the vast majority to learn the hard way that what you are preaching does not apply to them. 73, Guy. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Confusion in ON4UN's Low Band DXing radial length calculations.
Doug you are laying radials on the ground, they if on or under the ground are non resonant. You are essentially trying to produce a cooper shield by way of the radials. Seeing your vertical is about 100ft high just lay 60+ radials of 1/4 wave and you are done. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Doug Turnbull Sent: 19 December 2014 10:29 To: k8...@hughes.net; Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Confusion in ON4UN's Low Band DXing radial length calculations. Brian, I understand that the VF varies with soil type. One could just compensate by being conservative but who wants to use 30/40% more wire than needed. Why does the ON4UN book ignore VF when doing the example problems? Should I shorten to take into account VF? 73 Doug EI2CN -Original Message- From: k8...@hughes.net [mailto:k8...@hughes.net] Sent: 19 December 2014 00:08 To: Doug Turnbull; Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Confusion in ON4UN's Low Band DXing radial lengthcalculations. Hello Doug, The 50-60% figure depends on your soil conditions, so may vary quite a bit. With my poor, sandy soil, the Vf is 67.7% with the radials laying on the ground. When I buried them 6, the Vf was 39.8%. Using these shortened radials, there wasn't much improvement going beyond 16 radials. To find out your soil conditions, simply lay a temporary dipole on the ground and use an analyzer to find it's resonance. Then trim to length. Now you have your first two radials! Good luck Brian K8BHZ -Original Message- From: Doug Turnbull Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 4:18 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Confusion in ON4UN's Low Band DXing radial lengthcalculations. Dear OMs and Yls, I am replacing raised radials for 160M inverted L with ground mounted radials mostly because I could not readily get the raised radials up high enough in my wood and also because of maintenance problems. This inverted L goes up 100 feet at its top before levelling out for the final 32' or so. It should I believe have a strong vertical element. ON4UN's book Low-Band DXing 56th edition is generally excellent but I do find the coverage of ground radials both confusing and somewhat contradictory.This surprises me for what is pretty much considered the bible. On page 9-14 the text states that the velocity factor falls for ground mounted radials to the the order of 50-60%, which means that a radial that is physically 20 meters long is actually a half-wave long electrically! This example is for 80M not 160M.However in the examples found on page 9-15 the velocity factor change is ignored.I understand the velocity factor change and have always accepted this. It generally did not pay to try and cut radials precisely to a given wavelength.I accept the radial length vs. radial number charts but is this an electrical length in free space or a length considerably reduced due to velocity factory change?Example 3 ignores velocity factor correction and from what I can see this correction is ignore in most of the text concerning ground radials. What does one do? Who does one believe. While I am talking about a 160M inverted L; I did reference the SteppIR BigIR vertical manual, page 18.Lengths should be scalable.I find no mention of velocity factor and the shortening effect which is experienced. The recommendations are not very different from those in ON4UNs book. So does this mean one ignores the change in velocity factor? I appreciate some guidance with this matter. I would like a radial field which would take me to within 0.5/1 dB of the maximum achievable for reducing near field losses. 73 Doug EI2CN _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach
I think that what is being suggested is, that if you have two signals, one S9 and the other right at noise level. The salt water advantage shows up more on the weak signal. Let us say both increase by 6db the S9 signal won't be noticed as louder, but the weak signal will now show clearly above the noise, just like turning on a light. Even though BOTH have improved by 6db. 73 Clive GM3POI ( by The Sea) -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: 15 August 2014 12:10 To: Guy Olinger K2AV Cc: TopBand List; Guy Olinger K2AV Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach The signals showing the most change were not the loudest. They were the ones on the edge of the developing band opening. The stronger or peak signals from these stations would occur later as (presumably) the angle of arrival moved up. The advantage to the water's edge I was hearing would only last from first hearing to full band opening. To the extent that the opening was very marginal, the advantage could persist. One of the big things in any experiment is to think about all the factors that can cause a feeling or impression, and just look at the meaningful numbers. 1.) If you had a non-linear effect based on loss it was probably the common effect of small changes in threshold signals being most noticeable. This effect is just a fact of life. We see it without realizing it. Linear loss, and we know the loss is linear with level, change weak signals exactly the same as strong signals. They change noise exactly the same as signals. 2.) If you were observing a wave angle effect, you would have had to sort the signals by wave angle. The irony of this is the most vocal advocates of high angle propagation, where salt water has no advantage (except a small one on bounce) over a localized very modest copper screen, are the same people who claim enhancement. All of this is measureable if we do a correct and reasonable test. It is not measureable or observable with poor methods, or by human emotionometers. It is, on the surface, illogical to claim weak signals are changed in a way that does not occur on stronger signals. Nowhere in anything except non-linear circuits will that occur. When people come up with numbers or observations exceeding the change possible by moving an antenna from over soil to over an infinite copper sheet, or invoke some sort of non-linearity based on level, something is obviously wrong with the observation or reporting. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Budget high-performance topband transceiver
Another one for the mix is the FT1000D, especially with the sub receiver. Do the modification to gang the VFOs together plus the NB and key clicks mods and you have yourself a radio that is Diversity capable and difficult to beat. Plus easier to listen too than a K3. 73 Clive GM3POI With both radios -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ireland Sent: 22 June 2014 14:09 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Budget high-performance topband transceiver G’day I’ve enjoyed the recent discussions about the best cost-effective transceiver for use on 160m. Thought there were a couple of other ideas to throw into the pot on this topic. For those on a serious budget, the Icom IC-751A and the Kenwood TS-830S are still excellent performers on 160m for $500 or less – and can be found with 500Hz filters in two IFs if you are lucky. The IC-751A is also a great receiver for the 630m band and DX listening to NDBs. For those topbanders like Barry N1EU who are interested in SDR, the latest version of the PowerSDR/OpenHPSDR software and its associated firmware places the coding involved with CW generation inside the main FPGA associated with the HPSDR/Hermes/ANAN radio. The radio’s sidetone is generated completely in the FPGA and is not sent to PowerSDR, so there should be zero latency between a key press and the radio’s sidetone appearing. I haven’t tried this software on my HPSDR yet, but am looking forward to doing so, as this improvement apparently removes the last hurdle for a SDR transceiver to be a truly attractive alternative to the K3 etc for a serious CW DX/contest operator. Vy 73 Steve, VK6VZ --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition
Hi Dale, My only main point is that whatever antenna you end up using and with the height you have available you the most important task will lie with the operator. Without someone who can handle the pileups (even on 160m) and know when to listen to other than local stations, you may well not give the opportunity its deserves, justice. But I hope it all goes well and this is all in the planning apart from the actual antenna. Remember all antennas work. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of DALE LONG Sent: 10 June 2014 18:58 To: Milt -- N5IA; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition Hi Milt: This is not a big dxpedtion like VP6DX! We do not have a dxpedition webpage. We will use LOTW but we will not have real-time logging. For many years I have been involved in mission work to build radio stations in Haiti with an organization called Radio Lumiere. This is a Haitian nationally-run organization (a good thing not often enough found in developing countries where too often funding decisions are made by large NGOs). We have engineers and technical folks from USA and Germany who provide technical assistance and radio equipment. About once a year we go to Haiti and build a new FM station with 100ft tower. This year our project is to build an AM station. The two amateur groups are tasked with erecting the 240 foot AM tower. Then we get to play with it. This is a great opportunity, and is not often offered to amateurs. The tower would be erected by the group who is going in November for CQWW. The 160m dxpedition should arrive to find a big tower, but lacking radials with some kind of 160m antenna. Improving it for 160m would be our project. Our 160m efforts will be not of much practical use for the radio network, but necessary for topband. It is interesting to note (for some of the AM broadcast engineers in this group) that the people in Haiti (who dont have television and online news) still find AM to be an important communication vehicle. We do have a big opportunity. Many broadcast engineers do not have a high opinion of amateur radio operators and their abilities. And they do not often offer to allow an amateur group the use of their broadcast tower. But in this case the amateur community is providing the tower and the expertise to put it up. In return, we are allowed to use it. We plan to raise the tower in late November and have a small team to operate in the CQWW. I and other amateurs plan to stay and operate the ARRL 160m contest. We have a decent place to stay near the airport, and not far to the site. We will have a generator to ensure that we have power. The location is a salt marsh right on the ocean. We own the 9-acre plot. Although I have used beverages in other dxpeditions, I think that beverages would be of little value in the marshy area. (when I last visited the site the tower base and tuning house were on dry land and historically stay dry.) But part of the radial field would be in the marsh. We would have some local workers to provide assistance with radial installation. What we will have available is simply a tall broadcast tower. It will be top-loaded to bring it close to the design frequency of 660 Khz. We are still seeking a bottom insulator for the broadcast tower. As far as 160m operation is concerned, we could tune the tower with broadcast tuning network, but I agree with Dado and others that it may not be as good as a sloping dipole. (If we have opportunity we will try both.) If you would like to join us you would be most welcome. We need some 160 guys, especially to build some kind of listening antenna for a site with high ground conductivity. 73 Dale - N3BNA P.S. in addition to topband activities, I would note that all the ham radio stations in Haiti are operating with low or compromised antennas. On the higher bands we should be able to contact areas of the world that do not often have opportunity to contact Haiti. And as it happens many of our first group are well-known VHF contesters. So you may find us on 6m when our work is finished. From: Milt -- N5IA n...@zia-connection.com To: DALE LONG dale.l...@prodigy.net Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition Dale, Do you have a web page of the DXpedition that spells out the basics? Interested. In particular, what are your plans for 160 Meters, my specialty? de Milt, N5IA -- XZ1N, XZ0A, VP6DX -Original Message- From: DALE LONG Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:25 AM To: Dragoslav Balaban ; 'Carl' ; g...@ka1j.com ; Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition Hi Dado: I agree with you. Thanks to advice from AA1K, I built a sloping dipole at 200 feet for 80m in HH7-land. I was really loud into EU and USA with only
Re: Topband: FT5ZM
Milt, We in Europe suffer exactly the same problem when expeditions to the Pacific are heard working the US West coast in our window of propagation, I have even heard one station work me then go back to working West Coast, then follow that up by doing it again after working a G station. When it comes to operators band propagation knowledge is everything but a simple minute by minute check on the grayline would help. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Milt -- N5IA Sent: 02 February 2014 05:04 To: David Raymond; TopBand Subject: Re: Topband: FT5ZM Hi Dave, Glad you made it. All I can say is the person operating at 1400 Z 1 Feb was either not hearing well or he doesn't understand the minute gray line opportunities for those of us near the antipode. He can work VK stations all night long yet during the 7-8 minute window I have here in SW NM a high percentage of the Qs were with VK. This morning FT5ZM was copiable for those 7-8 minutes at Q5 with light QSB. There were many western US stations calling and yet the operator worked 3 VK stations among others during this very short window of opportunity. And there is 2 minutes less opportunity on this end each day. If you have the opportunity to pass that info along to Jerry in another SSB encounter, please do. Thanks, and 73 de Milt, N5IA -Original Message- From: David Raymond Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 2:21 PM To: TopBand Subject: Topband: FT5ZM I chatted with Jerry, WB9Z, on 18130 just a few minutes ago (Saturday, 2030z). He said Nodir, EY8MM, was already on 160 for the Saturday evening shift. He said they have been working on their RX antennas, trying to improve their receive capability to the degree they can. He also said they are making a real effort on the lowbands, particularly 160m, trying to get as many into the log as possible and that they would continue that effort. Good luck to all that need them. 73. . .Dave, W0FLS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7052 - Release Date: 02/01/14 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7052 - Release Date: 02/01/14 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Perry Streaming Audio
I am not so sure that is a great idea. I see little difference between that and if everyone did it, having a load of remote receivers operational during what is supposed to be a contest in Low band weak signal copying. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Eric NO3M Sent: 28 December 2013 10:11 To: topband@contesting.com; cq-cont...@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Stew Perry Streaming Audio For anyone interested, I will be streaming live audio during the Stew Perry contest tonight. URL: http://audio.no3m.net/ Click on the M3U link in the upper right of the box to start listening. Stream is in stereo; probably best heard using headphones connected to the PC to get the full effect. At times, there may be up to three receiver channels present, which can sound pretty weird if never heard before: Run Radio: Left / Right (diversity or split directions) S/P Radio: Centered (binaural) 73 es GL SP Eric NO3M _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorterversions??
Before you do Niko, read the Brown, Lewis and Epstein RCA report. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Niko Cimbur Sent: 26 September 2013 14:37 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorterversions?? In the early 90's N6KB and I tried a 5/8 wl Vertical on 160m. It was a wire vertical supported by a helium balloon and spaced several hundred feet from a permanent 1/4 wl Vertical. Both antennas had a similar, extensive radial system and they were both over average ground. We did many A/B comparisons during that contest weekend. We were shocked to find that the existing 1/4 wl performed better than the much taller Vertical. This was around 1992 so we did not model anything but actually tried it. After this the 5/8 antenna was never tried again. Recently I have been having some toughts about again trying a 5/8 vertical just for the fun of doing it. Actually I am thinking about setting up a few Vertical antennas of different sizes, maybe four of them and do a comparison of their actual performance over very good ground. They would be sized from a 5/8 wl vertical down to a short whip. All of them would be set up about 1/2 mile or so out over the Ocean. I already have a permanent 60' tall bottom loaded vertical there. I am not interested in making contacts, just receiving signal reports. Nothing permanent, this would be a one time deal. I am wondering if there is any interest in participating in this. Any Suggestions are welcome. Niko AC6DD _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Snap and Seal plugs
Hi Guys, I have been delivered some Snap and Seal RG6 plugs that also include a single O ring. This is the first time I have seen these with the plugs. It was provided by being located in the connection end of the plug but I am sure it is not meant to stay there. On checking the Snap and Seal pdf file It talks in terms of O rings not ring, So is there anyone on here can point me to where they are to be put, i.e. on the thread as the plug is screwed on the socket, or at the top of the plastic part of the seal before it is compressed and should there be two O rings? 73 Clive GM3POI _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Snap and Seal plugs
Yes Mike that is the original PDF explanation I mentioned. However they all seem to vary dependent on make. In my case I'll put the O ring on the thread of the socket so that a good ground connection is maintained within the plug. I will not be relying on the waterproof qualities of these or any plug so will use my usual tape and Scotchkote. 73 Clive GM3POI From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com] Sent: 07 September 2013 19:37 To: Clive GM3POI; topband Subject: Re: Topband: Snap and Seal plugs There are a lot of different types of snap-and-seal RG-6 plugs. The PDF that John references helps show that. Can we see a photo of your connectors? 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Clive GM3POI gm3p...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi Guys, I have been delivered some Snap and Seal RG6 plugs that also include a single O ring. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Vertical vs inverted L question/opinions
And more Horizontal polarisation and less vertical, i.e. No free lunch. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Johnson Sent: 11 August 2013 21:49 To: Topband Subject: Topband: Vertical vs inverted L question/opinions I have not seen a length mentioned for the inverted L, so thought I would note that by making the inverted L longer than a quarter wave moves the high current portion up the vertical. I had good luck with an inverted L about 3/8 wave long. By good luck I mean DXCC plus some on 160. I still am trying to improve. In any event feeding the inverted L with a series capacitor made tuning a breeze. By going longer than a quarter wave made the feed point inductive and raised the R value closer to 50. 73, Don N4DJ Sent from my iPhone _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: DX Window-Redux
Slightly off subject BUT the problem with the ARRL 160m Contest from a DX point of view Is that You get 5 points for working me but I only get 2 points for working you. 2.5 times as much. That is why I do not operate in that contest anymore. I know it's all relative but it is still wrong. And why it has become an almost Completely domestic contest. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: 07 December 2012 00:23 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: DX Window-Redux On 12/6/2012 1:23 PM, Tom W8JI wrote: It seems to me the ARRL intended it as a local **ARRL** sectional contest, not as a worldwide DX contest to encourage DX participation. It is more like a sweepstakes contest keyed to sections. That makes no sense -- DX contacts are weighted 2.5x US/VE contacts, and there are country multipliers. It's much closer to being the ARRL DX Contest for 160M. 1.) I think there should be a DX Window of some sort so stations located inland have some improved shot at hearing DX away from strong local signals. I do not think the idea to completely eliminate the window was, overall, a good idea. I think it was done primarily from the view or perspective of people on the east coast with large stations, and without due consideration of how eliminating a window impacts everyone else. I found a year old post that confirms your suspicions. See quote below. John, If it had not been for the window I could not have worked what I have on 160. I would say it had gotten me at least a dozen new ones. One year I remember giving ON4UN Zone 3 in the window. I wish you could walk in my shoes once and do a 160 contest from out here. It might enlighten you. 73 Hardy N7RT - Original Message - From: John Crovelliw...@hotmail.com To:topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Topband: DX Window No Long Relevant As a courtesy, last weekend our Multi operation, as a courtesy, refrained from calling CQ in what some still consider the DX Window (1830 - 1835). BUT lets be realistic here, this is 2011, not 1961. Split operation, a necessary operating technique of the W1BB era is no longer necessary. Frequency allocations between ITU regions and individual countries have become more aligned. All world class radios have narrow filtering capability, etc. fully capable of handling the worst pileups. The need for a window has diminished to the point it has become irrelevant in today's world. Only the ARRL seems to hold onto the notion of a DX window in their 160 contest rules, but they are well known for there slowness to react to current world realities. So I vote we assume THE 160M DX WINDOW is DEAD and move on to topics which might have significantly more value to the masses. 73, John W2GD/P40W = = = = = = = My comments: In the context of 160M, Maine, VE1, VY0, and VY2 are DX if you're operating from California. VY2 is closer to Oslo, Dublin, London, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, and Madrid than he is to me, and the path to those cities is only 300 miles longer from Boston. Their path to EU is all water, and not over the pole. My path to them is over dirt. So if we're gonna have a DX window, how about one where west coaster with less than a superstation can call CQ with a chance to work the east coast? And while we're at it, how about 5 points/QSO for the west coast working the east coast? 73, Jim K9YC ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.1.0.2900, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20900) http://www.pctools.com/ === === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.1.0.2900, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20910) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Topband: Detuning Tower
Hi All, I am thinking of a new Beverage that passes fairly near (50ft) of A tower that is not used on transmit as a vertical but is probably resonant in the 1.5-2.5mhz region. I would like it not add any noise to the beverage, a big ask I think. Is it just best to get the towers inherent resonance way below the medium wave, and therefore less likely to re radiate noise to the beverage, Or is there an alternative.? I know ideally I should get it far away from the tower but that's not possible in these circumstances. Remember this is not the TX transmit antenna. 73 Clive GM3POI === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20870) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: HFTA, Radio Arcala, general comments
Yes Gary, After blowing then away in a CQ 160m Contest by 1m points I figured it was rather an expensive lesson they learn. I was using my 51ft top loaded vertical and a lot of wire under it. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message-- Subject: Re: Topband: HFTA, Radio Arcala, general comments As I recall they never blew up the receiver here, unlike TF4M, GM3POI, and others in that direction from KL7 who were consistently available during times of low absorption over the N Pole. Then again, who knows what antenna array they were using or the ERP when heard. I'd still like to know their A/B results as there's something to be learned from all that hard work. 73, Gary NL7Y ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20820) http://www.pctools.com/ === === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20820) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: TT8TT
As all as you use two antennas into each receiver in Diversity that will be good Alfeo. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Alfeo Caputo Sent: 18 September 2012 15:32 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: TT8TT Dear all, as a member of the next TT8TT expedition I assure you that a special care will be taken in logging as much as possible on topband and 80m. In the last expedition in Africa the major problem was the weak signal, the noise was not so much struggling us but some storms were in the area. In Ivory Coast we got the best results by using the transmitting antenna to receive too, it was a vertical wire hanged to palm three dropping to the lagoon, with the radials in the water. The beverage and the DHDL were useless, just a loop and the vertical gave reasonable result. In Tchad we know there is not enough land to lay a beverage, therefore we are ready with the stuff to rise a loop and a DHDL (of course, the wire for a beverage is in our bag, just in case...). We are planning to bring a W7IUW pre-amplifier (I just drop an email to Elecraft to know about the relevant connection to the rig) hoping to rise the signal level. Any suggestion is appreciated. Best 73, Alfeo I1HJT One of TT8TT crew Il 18/09/2012 14.12, Mike Greenway ha scritto: If you still need TT on Topband, as I do, please go to http://www.i2ysb.com/joomla5/ and vote in their band needed survey to show you need them on 160. Often the AF expeditions will shy away from Topband stating “too much QRN” but hopefully this one will hang in there. 73 Mike K4PI ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20640) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Tony the walls of my house are Stone and about the thickness of your wall. When I came to installing a good ground system I drilled through the stone wall fairly easily and ran copper tubing through for the ground. I do not see any difference between that and your Wall. Give it a try with a good heavy drill. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 10 August 2012 18:21 To: 'topband' Subject: Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall Thanks Bill and Herb about drilling a hole through the wall. That could be tough. It is a stone wall with no mortar. It is about 20-28 thick. It is well constructed with large field stones. It would be rough to drill through all of that. I had thought about taking portion of the wall apart but figured I would never get it back to looking as good as it does now. The stones go fairly deep so not much chance of going under the wall. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Bill Wichers [mailto:bi...@waveform.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:26 PM To: N2TK, Tony; topband Subject: RE: Topband: Radials over a stone wall I would expect an up and over to clear the wall would result in a choke-like effect on the radial and would, at best, reduce the radial's effectiveness. It should be easy to just drill some small (maybe 1/4?) holes through the wall in a few places to pass the radials through. With a decent hammer drill and a carbide bit a small hole like that is pretty quick and easy to complete -- even in concrete or stone. Then just use a piece of coathanger wire as a wire fishing tool to run the radials through the hole. I use a wire pulling tool called a creep-zit to pull radials under fallen trees and logs in the woods. It works great. I basically just take one of the 6 foot long fiberglass rods (each of which is a little over 1/8 diameter), tape the radial to one end, and then I can push it under fallen debris easily. With a little practice you can even get around hidden obstructions in the ground this way. -Bill I shunt feed my tower for topband. I use variable vacuum caps and a vacuum relay at the base to switch between the low end and the high end of the band. It seems to work okay. I have 100' buried radials spaced 10' at the ends from o degrees going clockwise through about 220 degrees. I have a 4' high stone wall that runs about 20/200 degrees that is about 35' at its closest point to the tower. So the radials are progressively shorter on the West side of the tower. I am making an assumption that going up over the wall will distort any benefits of extending the radials on the West side? Is that a true assumption. I can't really have the radials go from the tower base up at an angle to clear the stone wall and continue on. If I am to extend them the radials would have to go on the ground to the wall then up and over and back down to the ground. 73, N2TK, Tony ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20360) http://www.pctools.com/ === === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20360) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: K2AV FCP with 43' vertical
Why would anyone use just 43ft of vertical without at least top loading the vertical section.? Without considering maximizing the antenna efficiency, I don't think considering losses in matching coils is valid. Not many people know this but my 160m vertical is but 51ft tall, top loaded but has sufficient ground radials to bring the overall losses down to a low figure. My overall point is the equation for efficiency relies on minimising ground losses irrespective of antenna height as per Brown Lewis and Epstein. This should be the object of anyone seeking to improve their 160m antenna. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: 31 July 2012 19:44 To: Charles Damico Cc: TopBand List Subject: Re: Topband: K2AV FCP with 43' vertical Hi, Charles, The short, short twitter answer: 43 feet is too d*mn short for 160. Do something else. Merely short answer: Yes, you can use an FCP. But... Hate to say it's the wrong question, sounds too much like a put down which I don't intend. The real question is why use a 43 foot vertical with that antenna's hypersensitivity to loss issues on 160. 43' on 160 is a very short antenna, electrically. A model of it with four full size radials and all sources of loss removed shows a radiation resistance of 2.6 ohms (two point six), and a feed current in the neighborhood of 25 amps. Over dirt it's possible you are down TWO S units, depending on exactly what you meant by four radials, plus other loss factors. Do you have to use the 43' on 160? If you really do, that's one direction. If you can substitute an L, that's another direction. Long answer: To answer your first question, you would be the first that I know of considering this combination. Rare I think, because there are such better alternatives for a small lot without all the downsides. The downsides are fairly extreme, and why so is worth a few paragraphs. Very short solutions have certain characteristics, a natural very low radiation resistance, very high current levels, and a very narrow SWR bandwidth. The way to assess these is to model an lossless environment. We'll use 43' over four 125' raised radials at 8 feet, made of zero resistance conductors and over salt water to eliminate ground losses. Magically in the model we have a transmitter right at the feed point, which has a very large matching range to deal with complex impedances with low single digit resistance and up to 1000 ohms capacitive reactance. Also have other magic in models, wires that support themselves above ground, etc, but I digress... We'll be using NEC4 engine in W7EL's EZNEC Pro, and the Sommerfeld ground approximation method aka high accuracy. There is controversy about accuracy of currently available modeling programs for sparse radials like yours, a really good case that ground loss is UNDER-estimated, but again I digress... Going to try and do this in a manner that skirts those issues. At 1500 watts on the lossless antenna, the peak current on the vertical is 24 amperes, and the feed impedance is 2.6 ohms -j986 reactance. Not a typo, that's two point six ohms. The peak gain is 4.68 dBi. Eliminating the capacitive reactance of the short radiator takes 86 uH to get 2.6 +j0. 86 uH is quite the large coil, but in this example it's made of super-conducting wire. The 2:1 SWR bandwidth is 3 kHz (yes, that's THREE kHz). Now let's start to inject reality, dirt, etc. Any increase in resistance above 2.6 ohms is ALL due to loss. Any broadening of the 2:1 SWR bandwidth of 3 kHz is due to loss. Let's change the ground medium in the model from over salt water to EZNEC's average dirt, and change the conductors to copper. The feed R goes to 4 ohms. The max gain drops to -0.72 dBi. The 2: 1 SWR bandwidth goes to 5 kHz. The peak current drops to 19.2 amps. If we add a conservative 5 ohms for the effective series resistance (ESR) of the huge loading coil necessary to provide 86 uH inductance to tune the antenna, the current drops to 12.8 amps, the gain to -4.2 dBi (), the feed R is up to 9 ohms, and the 2:1 SWR bandwidth is a semi-usable 10 kHz. In the coil, the current squared times 5 ohms is around 800 watts dissipated in the coil. The heat loss in the coil at QRO, particularly inside a protective enclosure that can trap heat, will be hot enough to soften the plastic bars used to support coil stock and cause them to get gravity droops, or be destroyed, perhaps set the whole thing on fire. I have destroyed similar components myself in years past, unaware of the level of current. We are the kings of burning things up, Jack and I, but I digress... At 100 watts, the dB loss is the same but the power dissipation is not large enough to signal the degree of loss by deforming or destroying things. If we add in Guy's personal pessimistic adjustment for NEC's underestimation of ground losses
Re: Topband: K2AV FCP with 43' vertical
Fair point Guy, I'd then suggest adding a relay at the top of the vertical to add in loading wires when on 160. Easily done and could be unseen. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: guyk...@gmail.com [mailto:guyk...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: 31 July 2012 21:26 To: Clive GM3POI Cc: Charles Damico; TopBand List Subject: Re: Topband: K2AV FCP with 43' vertical Well, If I'm getting it right, the 43' feet is being used on all bands, and there are approved by the garden committee kinds of issues. I don't argue with your general take in the least, but we are working in severely restrained circumstances in this thread, not laying out universal rules for the masses. For sure, some of the proper issues you list will not be within reach in this case, at least not without family or HOA repercussions. It IS possible to put up black wire in trees and construct a system that can't be seen from the street. One fellow (call him Danny Boy to protect anonymity) put up poles supporting an FCP, and tortuous threading of black insulated #12, and a matching box, all with camoflauge painting. Invisible from the street even if you know where it is. Wifey came home expecting to be upset, Danny Boy had been pushy about it all, and she could not see it from the street even when told where to look. Neighborhood folks have been over since, Dinner out on the patio, barely 50 feet from the thing in full view, and noone noticed. (Ah, there is a REASON why camouflage works.) I don't think everybody has Danny Boy's chutzpaz. So I take these 43 foot inquiries seriously, rather than suggesting a divorce and moving away. Have to raise all the issues and possibilities to enable the fellow that's living on the scene. In the end, only he knows what can be gotten away with. Scaring about high currents and losses gives him reasons to involve in his choice. 73, Guy. On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Clive GM3POI gm3p...@btinternet.com wrote: Why would anyone use just 43ft of vertical without at least top loading the vertical section.? Without considering maximizing the antenna efficiency, I don't think considering losses in matching coils is valid. Not many people know this but my 160m vertical is but 51ft tall, top loaded but has sufficient ground radials to bring the overall losses down to a low figure. My overall point is the equation for efficiency relies on minimising ground losses irrespective of antenna height as per Brown Lewis and Epstein. This should be the object of anyone seeking to improve their 160m antenna. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: 31 July 2012 19:44 To: Charles Damico Cc: TopBand List Subject: Re: Topband: K2AV FCP with 43' vertical Hi, Charles, The short, short twitter answer: 43 feet is too d*mn short for 160. Do something else. Merely short answer: Yes, you can use an FCP. But... Hate to say it's the wrong question, sounds too much like a put down which I don't intend. The real question is why use a 43 foot vertical with that antenna's hypersensitivity to loss issues on 160. 43' on 160 is a very short antenna, electrically. A model of it with four full size radials and all sources of loss removed shows a radiation resistance of 2.6 ohms (two point six), and a feed current in the neighborhood of 25 amps. Over dirt it's possible you are down TWO S units, depending on exactly what you meant by four radials, plus other loss factors. Do you have to use the 43' on 160? If you really do, that's one direction. If you can substitute an L, that's another direction. Long answer: To answer your first question, you would be the first that I know of considering this combination. Rare I think, because there are such better alternatives for a small lot without all the downsides. The downsides are fairly extreme, and why so is worth a few paragraphs. Very short solutions have certain characteristics, a natural very low radiation resistance, very high current levels, and a very narrow SWR bandwidth. The way to assess these is to model an lossless environment. We'll use 43' over four 125' raised radials at 8 feet, made of zero resistance conductors and over salt water to eliminate ground losses. Magically in the model we have a transmitter right at the feed point, which has a very large matching range to deal with complex impedances with low single digit resistance and up to 1000 ohms capacitive reactance. Also have other magic in models, wires that support themselves above ground, etc, but I digress... We'll be using NEC4 engine in W7EL's EZNEC Pro, and the Sommerfeld ground approximation method aka high accuracy. There is controversy about accuracy of currently available modeling programs for sparse radials like yours, a really good case that ground loss is UNDER-estimated
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
Hi Jeff, That's the problem with the ARRL 160m from a European point of view. Jeff you get 5 points for working me , I get two points for working you, in the same Contest. A no brainer, which is why now although I hold the EU record I do not bother with this one any more, with the exception of the odd QSO. I cannot see a good reason for the points differential other than bias, and to make it a domestic contest with an added bit of DX. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of k...@aol.com Sent: 07 December 2011 21:50 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments Hi Gang I have been reading comments about this past weekend's ARRL 160M test and I wish to address some comments that I have seen regarding EAST COAST participants. Some of what I have read seems to suggest that we out here are not interested in beaming to and or working WEST COAST stations. I am troubled by this kind of thought because it runs counter to what this contest is all about. Basically, I will admit that working 5 point Europeans is very important out here - but in my case it has NEVER been at the expense of working stations out West. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.888, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18850) http://www.pctools.com/ === === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.888, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18850) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Antenna Matching Question
Phil, Could you not remove the 60ft high guys for a test. Replace them with four copper radials that are then cut to resonate the whole array at 1830. Having found your new radial length introduce insulators into your old radials at the correct length. Leaving your complete system now resonate at 1830. and no capacitors. 73 Clive GM3POI P.S. I would be inclined to model it first to get the numbers near On 1 Sep 2011 at 8:57, Phil Clements wrote: Much has been written about matching 160 meter shortened vertical antennas, but very little about 160 meter antennas that are too long. There were two great articles in the old Communications Quarterly in 1998 about elevated ground planes, but I have lost them over the years. My current system was built from these articles. The system here is a 195 foot Rohn 25 tower, with insulators at the 60 foot level. The five sets of guy wires are all insulated from the tower, and additional insulators along their length to be invisible to 160 meter RF. The guys at the 60 foot level, just below the tower insulators are utilized as the radials that form the ground plane. They are 110 electrical degrees long. The system resonates at 1510 KHz, requiring a capacitor connected across the feed point. 600 pf brings the system into resonance @ 1830 KHz. There will soon come a day when I will not be able to climb to the 60 foot level to adjust the matching capacitor when needed. The question is: Can I place the capacitor at ground level, connected to the original feed point via coax or open-wire line? Will this 60 foot line radiate? I do not want to upset the radiation pattern of the system. I tried a motorized vacuum variable several years ago, but it was a high maintenance item due to exposure to the elements. I am open to all suggestions; perhaps some brand new ideas will surface from all the expertise on this reflector! After 57 years on the air, I am still learning, and trying to make improvements here! Thanks in advance for any/all comments. (((73))) Phil, K5PC ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18240) http://www.pctools.com/ === === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18240) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: was T30RH Pile-up Decorum
Any expedition should choose operators based on capability and competence. If an expedition were to choose all the team from those who work by numbers, their would be uproar on the bands. In my view if the operator can only handle a pile up if it contains one number HE should not be there. The place to gain competence is during contests and small expeditions not major ones, this may be harsh but it's the reality. This does not however excuse stations calling at will under any restrictions. 73 Clive GM3POI Steve AB4I, said: I heard an incident during the K5D operation that just delighted me and, in my view, set a good example on pile-up behavior. The K5D operator was working a SSB pile-up by numbers and took several tries to extract a callsign from the pile-up that should have been 4's, which as it turned out was an '8' call. The result was that the K5D operator said that he would not log the contact, because the call was out of turn and he asked the operator to call again later with the 8th call area! The pile-up seemed to be much better behaved afterwards. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
