Re: Topband: TT8XX QSL Help
So Steve, I guess you never worked any of those hundreds of DXpeditions on CW that the foundations did sponsor? I hate to tell you, but Glorioso is very rare, most of those who DO contribute to NCDXF and INDEXA need it. Besides, most of the QSOs made by most dxpeditions today on top band are not on CW. Sad but true. 73 Don N1DG NCDXF Treasurer CWops #2 At 07:07 PM 4/26/2024, Wes Stewart via Topband wrote: wrote: [snip] BUT I do draw the line at contributing to a DXpedition, like the present Glorioso one, that states outright they do NOT intend to operate any CW. That just rubs me entirely the wrong way, not to mention the fact that I will never be able to work and count them, regardless of how INDEXA or the NCDXF feel about such mode restrictions, and is the reason I cannot, and will not, fully support either of those organizations. Would I feel the same way if they said, instead, that they will not operate any digital, or even voice, but only CW?? No, of course not; that's fair game, to me, since my only interest is CW, and who needs those other modes?? 8-D Steve, K0XP _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector Duxbury, MA 02332 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: DX Conditions
Hi Mike, As far as I know the RBN receivers are not related at all to the websdr.com receivers. Don wd8dsb On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 5:12 PM Mike Waters wrote: > Hello Don es Roger, > > Can I assume these RBN SDRs are also on websdr.com? If so, which ones? > That > is, what are they called, so we can listen to the right ones? > > I no longer have any antennas. > > 73 Mike > W0BTU > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2024, 3:54 PM Don Kirk wrote: > > > I know 3 RBN reporting receivers located in New Hampshire use very good > RX > > antennas and they are as follows based on 2020 information I obtained > from > > the owner of these receivers. > > > > 200m-long Beverage to EU > > 23' high active Hi-Z vertical > > > > So yes, very good RX antennas on some of the East Coast RBN receivers. > > > > Just FYI, > > Don wd8dsb > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 4:24 PM Roger Kennedy < > > ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Fine about the RBN Receiving Sites further West . . . I wondered if > that > > > was > > > the case. > > > > > > I guess the East Coast US RBN stations that give us Europeans really > good > > > reports - more than 30dB above the noise when the band is open - must > > also > > > have good receiving antennas. > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: DX Conditions
Hi Roger, I know 3 RBN reporting receivers located in New Hampshire use very good RX antennas and they are as follows based on 2020 information I obtained from the owner of these receivers. 200m-long Beverage to EU 23' high active Hi-Z vertical So yes, very good RX antennas on some of the East Coast RBN receivers. Just FYI, Don wd8dsb On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 4:24 PM Roger Kennedy wrote: > > Fine about the RBN Receiving Sites further West . . . I wondered if that > was > the case. > > I guess the East Coast US RBN stations that give us Europeans really good > reports - more than 30dB above the noise when the band is open - must also > have good receiving antennas. > > However . . . conditions have been really poor this week . . . RBN reports > have been around 14dB S/N at best . . . but often far worse. > > Certainly haven't heard a peep from the Clipperton DXpedition here ! > > Roger G3YRO > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Mystery (for me) Stew Perry contact
Hi Mike, Probably 8P5A. You will see that call listed in the recent Stew Perry results. Don wd8dsb On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:16 AM Michael Rutkaus wrote: > So I hope this isn't too dumb, but there was a contact I made with some > difficulty: ZP5A in GK03 > > I remember copying it with great difficulty with different results but > finally ended up with the above. > > Who was it really? > > Thx > Mike > K4QET > > < > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail > > > Virus-free.www.avast.com > < > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Great signal from 5B4AMX this evening on 160 meters CW.
5B4AMX very strong this evening (Oct 17, 2023 at 0040 UTC) on 160 meters CW, and here is a link to a video I just uploaded to YouTube which was recorded while he was working K1TZQ and also calling CQ. https://youtu.be/8iC2GnusXaA?si=C65b1cjtdB2E9Qk7 I worked 5B4AMX while running 100 watts a few minutes before this recording was made. Great to see 160 meters CW coming to life and looks like a lot of US stations made it into his log. 73, Don wd8dsb _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ZD9W
Juris had to answer me twice before I heard him calling me. QSB over the hour around local SS was pretty bad. He also answered a bunch of other NA stations who never heard him calling them multiple times. GL all, Don N1DG At 06:50 PM 10/9/2023, John Kaufmann via Topband wrote: I heard them a couple nights ago on 160 CW, around 2330Z, roughly an hour after local sunset in W1. They were actually quite strong on peaks but there was deep QSB that took them down to almost nothing. They seemed to be having trouble hearing. I heard them come back to N1DG but all the other stations they worked were Europeans. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Craig Clark Sent: Monday, October 9, 2023 12:29 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: ZD9W Looking at DX Summit it looks like FT* will be his preferred mode of operation. Not on digital. Any information on possible CW operation? Craig Clark K1QX 603-520-6577 cell 603-899-6103 home Sent from my iPad _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector Duxbury, MA 02332 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Last night on top band for E51D
E51D will QRT at 17:00 UTC Sept 8. Tonight will be our last night on top band and it will be on FT8, 1848 Fox/Hound Mode. George has made 1238 qsos in the past 10 days. Last night we made an additional 194. We hope to add another 200 tonight before going QRT. See you then. AA7JV and N1DG Duxbury, MA 02332 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: E51D on 160 Tonight
Hi George, On peaks of about 4dB over my noise floor you were solid copy this morning around 0940 UTC near Indianapolis using my small pennant RX antenna pointed 300 degrees but QSB would often take you down to where it was tough to copy so just called a few times. Thanks for trying to accommodate the 160 meter CW gang. 73, Don wd8dsb On Thu, Aug 31, 2023 at 12:43 PM Bill Weaver wrote: > George, > > Thanks for starting at 0930Z before our SR. You were coming through but > too weak to work here in central KY. You were building after 10Z before you > went QRT. I’ll keep listening for you guys! > > 73, > Bill WE5P > > Comfortably Numb > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: E51D and OHQP
Hi Steve, During 160 meter contests I often experience situations where I can barely hear a station calling me on my 68 foot base loaded vertical which I use for transmit but when I switch to any one of my receive pennant antennas they are often 20db or much more over my noise floor and this typically happens when the station is within 150 or so miles of my QTH. Also they are just about as strong on any pennant I select (40, 160, or 270 degree pointed pennant) and when this happens this probably indicates they are pretty much NVIS which would also explain why I can barely hear them on my TX antenna which is deaf to NVIS based on modeling. It really is an amazing phenomena and I often experience this when operating 160 meter contests which is my passion. Just FYI and 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 6:42 PM Steve Maki wrote: > And conversely (not that I'm an expert topbander), it might be true that > a good DX antenna is more than *adequate* for close in contacts in most > situations. > > -Steve K8LX > > On 08/24/23 6:28 PM, Mike Waters wrote: > > Contrary to what you hear repeated on the bands year after year, what Jim > > said is *exactly* right! :-) > > > > I'll add that NVIS is rarely —if ever— useful for working DX on 160m. > > > > 73 Mike > > W0BTU > > https://web.archive.org/web/20190827040547/http://w0btu.com/ > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 1:40 PM Jim Brown > wrote: > > > >> ... the optimum height for an NVIS antenna is a quarter-wave. > >> Higher reduces upward radiation, lower increases ground loss. This study > >> was peer reviewed. > >> > >> 73, Jim K9YC > >> > > _ > > Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Stew Perry Topband Challenge
It started off OK here near Indianapolis but as darkness moved West from here the QRN went way up from the Thunderstorms centered above KS, OK, and AR. As an example my noise floor when beaming West using my 300 degree pointed pennant RX antenna was peaking 24 dB above my normal noise floor most of the time due to the Thunderstorms. My 40 degree pointed pennant really knocked down the QRN from the Thunderstorms out West which helped me hear the East coast stations. Big Thunderstorms were also located above FL and my noise floor listening South using my 160 degree pointed pennant was also much higher than normal. I stayed up until European SR and went to bed at 0445 UTC, and then jumped back on for a few minutes at 0926 UTC to put 3 more stations in the log before calling it quits. I heard nothing out of Europe. I personally thought it was brutal but my QSO numbers maybe indicat it was not as bad as I felt it was. Big thanks to K7RAT and K7QA for the only high QSO points besides QRP stations that I was able to obtain using my little 100 watt station. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 10:11 AM Tree wrote: > This summer stew was interesting from Oregon. The band was surprisingly > quiet - especially in the morning. > > Sunset was at 0405 UTC. I could hear a handful of stations to the East > just before sunset, but none of them could hear me. W9RE was the first > station other than "locals" at 0402. I didn't realize he was running low > power. Typically the QSOs started with me calling a few times and I would > get a question mark, then eventually they would piece my call together. > KZ5D had a good signal, but got away before I could work him. > > However, this was pretty late on the East Coast and many stations were > going QRT. I heard perhaps a dozen stations that could not hear me before > they went QRT and I never heard them again. > > Around 0530 UTC, I sensed that EVERYONE out East had gone to bed, The band > was empty and there really were very few USA West Coast stations active. > This felt like a good time to get a few hours sleep. I got back on the > band at 0841 and worked a handful of East Coast stations near their sunrise > (K3UL, KM1R, AA1K, K9WX, WT9Q, N3BB) and that was it. But for summertime, > it was much better than nothing. > > After 1004 UTC, I only worked stations on the West Coast - or DX to the > West. JA3YBK showed up with a good signal working the AA contest. They > called me and we had some difficulty getting the exchanges worked out as > they were looking for my age and I was looking for their grid square. They > thought I was 85 years old for a minute or two. They were a beacon on the > band until my sunrise. JA9FHB called in with a grid square which was very > nice. > > Then VK3QB started calling CQ DX around 1110 UTC. KL7KY and I were > answering him, but he couldn't hear either one of us. Eventually, > conditions improved and I was able to get his attention. Took some work to > get him to send a grid square however. After almost a half hour of nothing > in the log - VK3HJ shows up with a pretty good signal for my second VK > QSO. They are worth 26 and 27 points. I watched HJ and QB work each other > on my bandscope. They both had good signals and for a while, VK3QB had a > steady signal up to my sunrise. > > I had worked Phil, VK6GX in the Spring Stew and was keeping an ear out for > him and he finally called me at 1202 UTC foor my last QSO. Turns out, I > was his only QSO. A nice 30 point adder to the score. Finally pulled the > plug around 1225 UTC and went back to bed. > > This actually was a pretty good result for me in the Summer Stew. I am > pleased to see how many times K7RAT shows up in the listing as the best > DX. It really felt like I was in my own world as there were very few other > stations from the West Coast - especially in the morning. I installed my > new phasing box for the HiZ array (a single box instead of the two that I > had before) and it seemed to work very well. Was using diversity the whole > time with the HiZ in one each and a Beverage in the other (either pointing > N/S or East or West). The K4D continues to be very easy on the ears. > > Great to hear all of the activity. Hope to see everyone in October. > > 73 Tree N6TR / K7RAT > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 6:45 AM Charles Morrison < > charles.morrison.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi QRN due to nearby storms. > > TF4VQ & DR5X only. > > I was QRT by 0215Z. > > -Charlie N1RR > > > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 5:14 AM Roger Kennedy < > > ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well I don't know how others got on . . . > > > > > > But I didn't hear on
Re: Topband: High Impedance RX Antennas
A used Tek 1502 TDR is the "gold standard" to me anyway and they can be quite cheap at flea markets etc. They are "arm held" and self contained portable so ideal for up to 1000' runs and have enough resolution that you can "see" defects that you don't really need to worry about. The advantage over some of the VNWA's that have a TDR function, is that the 1502 is real time so intermittents can easily be spotted. And it measures impedance so you can easily see how long and what Z that unknown roll of flea market coax is! I built the scope based TDR from the QST articles years ago, but that version isn't even close to the 1502. I also have a Tek 1503 for checking longer runs of control cable etc. 73 Don VE6JY On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 11:21 AM Tree wrote: > I guess most people have some kind of small antenna analyzer that has a TDR > kind of function. > > I have not warmed up to them yet as the results I see seem to be "all over > the place". Maybe I just don't know how to use them yet. > > My goto TDR is homebrew - using an analog scope. > > Here is one design pretty similar to what I am using: > > A very simple TDR from W2AEW – PierpaLab.com > <https://pierpalab.com/2022/04/30/a-very-simple-tdr-from-w2aew/> I put a > switch on it to slow down the rep rate as an option since some of my > "stuff" is pretty long. > > It works wonderfully to check feedlines and beverages. I have one beverage > that has transformers and feedlines on both ends and I can see the > difference between open/short/terminate on the "far end" (which is > physically in the shack). > > 73 Tree N6TR > > On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 10:11 AM Frank W3LPL > wrote: > > > Another highly recommended tool is a Time Domain Reflectometer. > > Tt easily detects any abnormalities in my 8-circle and 4-square > > arrays and stacked HF Yagi arrays and switches. > > > > Other than my hand held antenna analyzer, my hand held TDR is my > > most often used and most valuable tool for proving that the performance > > of my antennas and feedlines has not changed from prior measurements > > and identifying and isolating faults before they cause partial or > > total failure. A TDR can detect, diagnose and locate feedline and > > antenna faults from the comfort of your ham shack. > > > > Affordable TDRs are often available on eBay. Some antenna > > analyzers have rudimentary TDR capabilities but I've never used > > an antenna analyzer with TDR capabilities comparable in > > performance to a TDR. > > > > Long before moisture causes coax failure, it causes the impedance > > of the coax to change, a potentially big problem in a phased array > > or stacked Yagis. A TDR easily detects and locates the problem > > before it causes a failure. > > > > An antenna analyzer can also detect that moisture has caused > > an impedance shift in coax cable. Place a dummy load (with the > > same impedance as the coax) at one end of the coax cable. Sweep > > the antenna analyzer frequency. As you do a frequency sweep the > > VSWR and impedance should not change. If it does, moisture is > > probably eating away inside your coax. > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Dennis W0JX via Topband" > > To: "topband" > > Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 4:42:37 PM > > Subject: Re: Topband: High Impedance RX Antennas > > > > There is an old saying "The enemy of good is perfect." You will be > driven > > crazy by chasing down every slight variance from the ideal. That being > > said, it is important to check out the obvious areas where flaws can > create > > big problems. Indeed, the feedline coax, typically RG6 CATV line, is a > > major contributor to array performance problems. The cheap, big box > cable > > is covered with PVC and that stuff hardens and tightens up over the > years. > > This allows water to enter the shield and the water easily migrates for > > long distances, creating a high resistance. Spend the money upfront and > buy > > quality cable that is flooded. > > The idea of using cable that has a solid copper conductor has merit. But > > even with that, a bare copper conductor will oxidize over time. I find > > myself cleaning these conductors on an annual basis with the eraser end > of > > a pencil (recommended by Lee K7TJR). > > I have also had F connector failures on my combiner box and on a common > > mode choke. Sometimes the imported female connector center contact just > > fai
Re: Topband: CQWW160: Night 2
Hi Michael, It was a very interesting opening (band improvement) into parts of Europe from here in Indiana at the same times you mentioned. I just looked at my contest log and something special started happening around 0500 UTC Sunday morning which lasted until approximately 0730 UTC (but really great between 0500 and 0630 UTC). What's also interesting is that signals into the West Coast of the US and also into Hawaii really improved from Indiana during that time period. That's why I hate leaving my operating chair for any length of time during 160 meter contests as conditions are so unpredictable. I knew something special was happening when European stations started calling my little 100 watt station, and that's exactly what happened this time around. What a blast of adrenaline. P.S. I did not really notice European sunrise enhancement either night from here in Indiana. A YL station called me at 0514 UTC and that was 1.3 hours before his sunrise and that's when the fun began. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 3:25 AM Michael Tope wrote: > There was a decent opening from here in Southern California to Europe on > Saturday night around 0500 UTC that lasted approximately two and a half > hours. > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Comparing antennas was: Re: 160m loaded tower
Even better is to use S Meter dropdown in the KIWI extensions menu it gives a strip chart style presentation that can be configured to easily show small differences in signal levels, far easier to watch and more accurate than the S meter display. On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:27 AM STEVE MCDONALD wrote: > Pete, I’ve found the best way to A/B antennas in real time is to listen on > one of the hundreds of online Kiwi SDRs …. You can flip from one antenna to > the other instantly and the difference is readily apparent. RBN can never > be A/B ‘d instantly. > > Steve VE7SL > > > - Original Message - > > > This would have been more helpful to Ignacy before the second antenna > went up, but taking off from Stan's question ... if you want to get a > quick quantitative comparison between two transmitting antennas, you can > use the Reverse Beacon Network. Go to > https://reversebeacon.net/main.php. Transmit a CQ or test (CQ or TEST > at least twice, and your callsign 3-4 times) and note the spots that > result. QSY at least 0.3 KHz and repeat. You should see spots from > some of the same stations, and you can readily tell (in dB) which > antenna was stronger. You can do the same trick to compare receiving > antennas, without QSYing, but you must wait 10 minutes before the system > will accept a second spot of the same station from you. > > 73, Pete N4ZR > > On 1/18/2023 11:31 AM, Stan Stockton wrote: > > Ignacy, > > > > Is your thought that you are a few dB weaker based on sone kind of A-B > test of the two antenna setups or just that you feel weaker? > > > > 73…Stan, K5GO > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Jan 17, 2023, at 9:44 PM, Ignacy Misztal wrote: > >> > >> I have a 100 ft tower with jk mid tri 40 on top. When shunt fed, it was > >> pretty competitive on 160. Recently the antenna seems to be a few db > >> weaker. The only change was adding another beam at 60ft. Could it have > had > >> an impact? Adding the beam only marginally affected the match. > >> > >> Ignacy NO9E > >> _ > >> Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > > Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook": http://qsl.net/ve7sl/ > > VE7SL BLOG - "Homebrewing and Operating Adventures From 2200m to > Nanowaves": > http://ve7sl.blogspot.ca/ > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 1940 kHz intruder WWRU WKDM
Hi Jim, The AM radio stations are required to do the annual measurements per the current FCC rules and I have indeed been shown the measurement data at transmitter sites I have visited. The FCC does not do the measurements, they just require them to be done and the small stations I have gone to actually hire out the measurements, therefore the gutting of the FCC really should have no impact on the annual inspections I mentioned which I probably should have called annual measurements. I think I've heard chief engineers refer to the measurements as their NRSC measurements (NRSC stands for National Radio Systems Committee), and someone who is currently in the AM broadcast industry should probably jump in and provide more accurate information than what I've provided. Don (wd8dsb) On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 1:01 AM Jim Brown wrote: > On 1/6/2023 9:52 PM, Don Kirk wrote: > > Broadcasters are held to some very stringent spurious emission limits and > > the stations actually go through a periodic inspection to show > compliance. > > This was certainly true when I worked in broadcasting 60 years ago, but > With deregulation (during the '70s?) and a gutted FCC, it may be a thing > of the distant past. I'd like to learn that I'm wrong, but my impression > is that the FCC is far more concerned with a wardrobe malfunction than > an equipment malfunction. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 1940 kHz intruder WWRU WKDM
Hi Frank and gang, I might be able to help provide some additional insight/direction. This is not necessarily a case of having to show harmful interference, as the AM Broadcasters are held to some very stringent spurious emission limits and the stations actually go through a periodic inspection to show compliance. If the IMD is being generated within their hardware and they exceed the emission limits as stated in section 73 of the FCC rules then the station must address the problem (no need to prove harmful interference to anyone for it to be a problem that needs to be fixed). If I were in the area I would try and confirm the IMD is originating from the property of the transmitter site, and then make an attempt to measure the spurious emission signal strength relative to the carrier frequency signal strength (an approximation is fine) to show that the spurious emission likely exceeds the allowable limits. After achieving this I would then contact the station general manager to explain the situation including the fact that ham radio operators over a pretty large geographic area are hearing their out of band spurious emissions and then have him put you in direct contact with the chief engineer of the station to look into the problem (this sometimes requires a lot of digging before you are able to make contact with the right people). I have dealt with a few AM broadcast station as well as TV station problems and the biggest hurdle is getting in contact with the chief engineer, but after getting in contact with the chief engineer the problem gets addressed but maybe not at the speed of light as many AM broadcast stations are in dire financial times and they often don't even have a full time chief engineer and the chief engineer most likely will not have the skill set to fix the problem and he will likely need to call in a RF consultant . I would certainly avoid getting the FCC involved as a first step unless working directly with the station general manager and chief engineer fail. This normally does not need to be a confrontational situation as the chief engineer wants to make sure his station is in compliance. In a recent AM broadcast station case I was involved with both the part time chief engineer and RF consultant were hams which made life easy. Just my opinion based on some past experience. Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 10:07 PM Frank W3LPL wrote: > Hello AJ, > > Topbanders have done an excellent job of precisely identifying the source > of the 1940 kHz intermod. > > I don't think its helpful for those of who are not being harmed to lodge > a complaint with the FCC. Its the responsibility of those being > harmed t file a complaint. Those being interfered with also have a knob > on their radios that allow them to avoid interference. > > American amateurs suffering harm can file a complaint to the FCC. > > Canadian amateurs can lodge a complaint to their regulatory authority, > that authority can then file a complaint to the U.S. government. It's > a routine process used often. > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > > From: "A J" > To: "Frank W3LPL" > Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2023 1:39:11 AM > Subject: Re: 1940 kHz intruder WWRU WKMD > > > > Hi Frank > > How do we define harmful interference? > > > > > I know some of the guy's that talk on 1940 and at times it makes it > impossible for them to talk. > > One of the gents is located near Barrie Ontario (480 miles) and at times > he can not even hear others he is talking to. Others near Buffalo others in > north west Pennsylvania. > > About 380 miles to my location. I had a friend near North Bay Ontario > listen when I was trying to figure out where it was coming from or what > stations it was he is 500 miles away and it is heard there. > > > I hear it before ~1hr sundown and hear it about 45 minutes after sun rise. > > > Other times I have heard it mid morning.( signal level from S3 to S9+10 > with ~12 db attn) > > > Is it possible it is re-radiating from some other structure? > > > > > Cheers AJ___ VE3HJ > > > On 1/6/23 19:40, Frank W3LPL wrote: > > > > Hi AJ > > In my opinion, the next step is to determine if this intruder is causing > harmful interference, > > Several of us can hear it weakly and intermittently hundreds of miles > away, > but so far no one has claimed that its harmful. > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > > From: "A J" [ mailto:iamfromcanadaa...@gmail.com | < > iamfromcanadaa...@gmail.com> ] > To: "Frank W3LPL" [ mailto:donov...@starpower.net | < > donov...@starpower.net> ] > Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2023 12:27:47 AM > Subject: Re: Topband: Spur as it reappeared > > > > Hi Frank > > So what is the next step
Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder
Hi Rick and Frank, This may have already been discussed offline but if WWRU 1660KHz is indeed one of 2 stations mixing then the math suggests 1380 KHz is a prime candidate regarding the second transmitter involved in the generation of a 3rd order IMD product that falls on 1940 KHz and it turns out that WKDM 1380 KHz actually shares the same transmitter site as WWRU 1660 KHz. I'm having problems with the FCC AM database at the moment, but it appears the transmitter site address for both stations is 350 Paterson Plank Rd, Carlstadt NJ and sure enough I see 8 towers at this address using google earth. Just FYI, Don wd8dsb On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 10:59 AM Rick Lapp wrote: > Fred, what made it easy was hearing an English language pop song that I > could easily identify through the fading and static. Switching the VFO to > the broadcast band, I simply scanned until I heard the same song. Confirmed > it with several other songs that nailed it. My Korean is rusty so the music > made it easy. > Rick > > > On Jan 6, 2023, at 8:16 AM, FRED BELGHAUS wrote: > > > > Rick, you are probably correct. I recall at least one prior problem > with WWRU's signal several years ago. > > > > Their programming is in the Korean language (according to Wiki). If > that's what you're hearing, BINGO. > > WADO's programming is Spanish, and has been for many years. > > > > 73, > > > > Fred W2AAB > > > > On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 7:56 AM Rick Lapp r...@ricklapp.net>> wrote: > >> Frank, > >> 1660 +10dB > >> 620 S4 > >> 1010 +10dB > >> 1190 S6 > >> > >> > >> > On Jan 6, 2023, at 7:36 AM, Frank W3LPL <mailto:donov...@starpower.net>> wrote: > >> > > >> > Rick, > >> > > >> > If you're hearing more than one audio stream on 1940 kHz > >> > do you also hear program content from: > >> > > >> > 1660 kHz WWRU or > >> > 620 WSNR > >> > 1010 WINS > >> > 1190 WLIB > >> > > >> > tks > >> > > >> > 73 > >> > Frank > >> > W3LPL > >> > > >> > > >> > - Original Message - > >> > From: "Rick Lapp" mailto:r...@ricklapp.net>> > >> > To: "topband" mailto:topband@contesting.com > >> > >> > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2023 12:07:50 PM > >> > Subject: Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder > >> > > >> > I’m fairly confident that I’ve identified the signal to be coming > from 1660 kHz, WWRU in Jersey City NJ. There is considerable fading but I > confirmed the source by listening to the programming, switching back and > forth between two VFOs on the TS890. > >> > > >> > I’m located in Eastern Long Island, NY about 50 miles east of NYC. > The 1660 signal is well over S9 and the 1940 is S4-5 max. At times, the > signal changes abruptly in amplitude. > >> > > >> > Rick, KC2FD > >> > > >> > > >> >> On Jan 5, 2023, at 10:23 PM, FRED BELGHAUS <mailto:fbelgh...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> If we mix 1280 and 1660 we get these 2 stations: > >> >> > >> >> 1280 WADO 50 kW Day / 7200 W Night (Licensed to NYC) but transmitter > in > >> >> Carlstadt, NJ > >> >> 1660 WWRU 10 kW Day & Night Jersey City, NJ > >> >> > >> >> (Info via): http://mesamike.org/radio/cdbs/amdb.mvc > >> >> > >> >> These stations are about 12 miles apart. > >> >> > >> >> Fred W2AAB > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 12:21 PM Joe Subich, W4TV <mailto:li...@subich.com>> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> On 2023-01-05 11:26 AM, A J wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> It sounds like two station are there possibly more. > >> >>> > >> >>> Intermodulaton (mixing) ... > >> >>> > >> >>>> I heard a frequency 1610khz said. > >> >>> > >> >>> You have two frequencies, solve for the third. > >> >>>1940 = 2 * x - 1610 = 1775 (out of band) > >> >>> or 1940 = 2 * 1610 - x = 1280 > >> >>> > >> >>> I would start looking at the allocations for a community > >> >>> where you have a 1610 and 280 close together (preferably > >> >>> co-located). > >> >>
Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder
This should be a good candidate for the KIWI network of SDR's and their TDOA transmitter locating ability... On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 5:53 PM Ken Boasi wrote: > Hi Frank, > > I am hearing it here in WNY (Rochester area), but very weak (S1 at best). > I can hear it on my vertical, or using receive antennas only when pointing > southeast. > > 73, Ken N2ZN > > > > > On Jan 4, 2023, at 7:32 PM, Frank W3LPL wrote: > > > > Hi John > > > > Your results suggest the 1940 kHz intruder is near New York City or > northern NJ > > > > Does anyone else hear it? > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "John Kaufmann via Topband" > > To: "topband" > > Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 12:25:52 AM > > Subject: Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder > > > > Here in the Greater Boston area, the signal peaks from the southwest on > my 8-circle array. It's not real strong, varying between S4 and S6. I can > tell there is some audio in there but it's not strong enough to identify. > > > > 73, John W1FV > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann= > verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David Olean > > Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 7:09 PM > > To: Frank W3LPL; topband > > Subject: Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder > > > > I listened this evening at 2345 UT Jan 4, and hear the best strength > > with a southwest beverage. I live in Southern Maine. Signal was about S9 > > and sounded distorted with possibly two station audio streams. I hope > > this helps. My beverages were really messed up (destroyed is more like > > it) from the last cyclone around christmas. My EU and East wires are > > dead at the moment. I have all the others working again. > > > > Dave K1WHS > > > >> On 1/3/2023 5:56 PM, Frank W3LPL wrote: > >> The 1940 kHz broadcast station is audible now (2245Z Tuesday) > >> Its roughly northeast of Maryland, perhaps in New England > >> > >> I did not hear it yesterday > >> > >> 73 > >> Frank > >> W3LPL > >> _ > >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: [RFI] Powerline noise question
Hi Jim, Below is a link to a simple website I have for my portable flag antenna and you will find a link in the first paragraph of my website to the original QST article (with the permission of the ARRL). DX Engineering also sells what they call their NoiseLoop which is based on my portable flag and they also sell a preamplifier specifically designed for use with my portable flag that works really well. https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/home P.S. I make no money on anything that DX Engineering sells, including my portable flag. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:13 AM Jan Erik Holm via Topband < topband@contesting.com> wrote: > Can a description of that antenna be had ? > Google was not my friend and I don´t have QST. > > / Jim SM2EKM > > Den 2022-12-30 kl. 04:53, skrev Frank W3LPL: > > Hi Rick, > > > > I recently built a WB8DSB man portable flag antenna (March 2021 QST) > > for RFI geolocation, its performance far exceeds my expectations. > > Its narrow deep null quickly, easily and definitively located the > > source of very troublesome 160 meter RFI to a single power pole > > more than three miles from my QTH. Prior to constructing the > > flag antenna I could locate the RFI to only within a few hundred > > yards of the RFI source. > > > > I built my flag antenna entirely out of materials I had on hand > > from previous projects including 3/8 inch diameter fiberglass rods, > > a pair of Advanced Receiver Research P1-30/20VD 20 dB HF preamps, > > a case of eight AA batteries to provide power to the preamps, > > a switchable attenuator and a Tecsun PL330 portable HF receiver. > > > > I highly recommend this easily constructed RFI geolocation antenna > > for the toolkit of any serious HF operator. > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: [RFI] Powerline noise question
Rick, When I mentioned using an AM radio with a 3 or 4 element yagi when within 0.25 miles of the source I should have said that’s up on VHF (like 136 or 146 MHz, etc.) if it’s really power line noise (arcing hardware). Don wd8dsb On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 11:27 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Frank, > > Thanks for mentioning my portable flag, and that's the way to go to get > close to the area of the suspect pole but I didn't want to toot my own > horn. It really is an easy antenna to build and its build is very > forgiving, and glad to hear it exceeded your expectations. > > I do recommend using my portable flag out in the clear in order to avoid a > distorted pattern such as developing a minor lobe off the backside if > standing too close to an existing object like a tall metal light pole or a > house, etc. When in doubt I use the peak of my portable flag as it's much > more robust (less prone to getting altered by nearby objects). The > unidirectional properties of the portable flag is priceless as well as its > broadband response. I use a 680 ohm termination resistor but a 820 ohm > termination resistor works well too. > > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 10:54 PM Frank W3LPL > wrote: > > > Hi Rick, > > > > I recently built a WB8DSB man portable flag antenna (March 2021 QST) > > for RFI geolocation, its performance far exceeds my expectations. > > Its narrow deep null quickly, easily and definitively located the > > source of very troublesome 160 meter RFI to a single power pole > > more than three miles from my QTH. Prior to constructing the > > flag antenna I could locate the RFI to only within a few hundred > > yards of the RFI source. > > > > I built my flag antenna entirely out of materials I had on hand > > from previous projects including 3/8 inch diameter fiberglass rods, > > a pair of Advanced Receiver Research P1-30/20VD 20 dB HF preamps, > > a case of eight AA batteries to provide power to the preamps, > > a switchable attenuator and a Tecsun PL330 portable HF receiver. > > > > I highly recommend this easily constructed RFI geolocation antenna > > for the toolkit of any serious HF operator. > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Richard" > > To: "rfi" > > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 3:15:32 AM > > Subject: [RFI] Powerline noise question > > > > I have a powerline noise coming from about 2 miles away, which is > > nevertheless quite strong at my QTH. > > > > Here are the symptoms: > > > > 1. A 120 Hz noise burst at regular intervals, about 0.9 seconds apart. > > > > 2. The noise goes away after a rain; then comes back after things dry > > out. > > > > 3. Can be heard from 500 kHz up to a few MHz. > > > > 4. The noise is very strong along a road for a few miles. There is a > > > > power line that follows the road. I haven't been able to localize it > > better than > > > > that so far. From my QTH, though, it is definitely coming in at a > > specific azimuth > > > > which is consistent with the noisy road a few miles away. (Using a loop > > antenna > > > > for DF'ing). > > > > Any help appreciated. > > > > -- > > Rick Karlquist > > N6RK > > ___ > > RFI mailing list > > r...@contesting.com > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > ___ > RFI mailing list > r...@contesting.com > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: [RFI] Powerline noise question
Hi Frank, Thanks for mentioning my portable flag, and that's the way to go to get close to the area of the suspect pole but I didn't want to toot my own horn. It really is an easy antenna to build and its build is very forgiving, and glad to hear it exceeded your expectations. I do recommend using my portable flag out in the clear in order to avoid a distorted pattern such as developing a minor lobe off the backside if standing too close to an existing object like a tall metal light pole or a house, etc. When in doubt I use the peak of my portable flag as it's much more robust (less prone to getting altered by nearby objects). The unidirectional properties of the portable flag is priceless as well as its broadband response. I use a 680 ohm termination resistor but a 820 ohm termination resistor works well too. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 10:54 PM Frank W3LPL wrote: > Hi Rick, > > I recently built a WB8DSB man portable flag antenna (March 2021 QST) > for RFI geolocation, its performance far exceeds my expectations. > Its narrow deep null quickly, easily and definitively located the > source of very troublesome 160 meter RFI to a single power pole > more than three miles from my QTH. Prior to constructing the > flag antenna I could locate the RFI to only within a few hundred > yards of the RFI source. > > I built my flag antenna entirely out of materials I had on hand > from previous projects including 3/8 inch diameter fiberglass rods, > a pair of Advanced Receiver Research P1-30/20VD 20 dB HF preamps, > a case of eight AA batteries to provide power to the preamps, > a switchable attenuator and a Tecsun PL330 portable HF receiver. > > I highly recommend this easily constructed RFI geolocation antenna > for the toolkit of any serious HF operator. > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Richard" > To: "rfi" > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 3:15:32 AM > Subject: [RFI] Powerline noise question > > I have a powerline noise coming from about 2 miles away, which is > nevertheless quite strong at my QTH. > > Here are the symptoms: > > 1. A 120 Hz noise burst at regular intervals, about 0.9 seconds apart. > > 2. The noise goes away after a rain; then comes back after things dry > out. > > 3. Can be heard from 500 kHz up to a few MHz. > > 4. The noise is very strong along a road for a few miles. There is a > > power line that follows the road. I haven't been able to localize it > better than > > that so far. From my QTH, though, it is definitely coming in at a > specific azimuth > > which is consistent with the noisy road a few miles away. (Using a loop > antenna > > for DF'ing). > > Any help appreciated. > > -- > Rick Karlquist > N6RK > ___ > RFI mailing list > r...@contesting.com > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Antenna check for V31XX
Hi Bill, I misunderstood, it looks like V31MA was running low power, so you would have to subtract off the difference in dB from your RBN data to see how it compares with V31MA. Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 4:30 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Bill, > > You should still be able to compare yourself to V31MA using the RBN data. > Just find out how much power V31MA was running and compare it with your > power level in units of dB. Then you can use the RBN data to compare your > signal to V31MA as long as you subtract the dB difference in power from the > V31MA data. > > Hope that makes sense. > > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 3:13 PM cqtestk4xs--- via Topband < > topband@contesting.com> wrote: > >> After putting down 3600 yard staples to install 55 radials 130 ft for my >> 100 ft wire vertical with a 30 ft L I was ready for the 160 test. For RX I >> used an SAL-30 which performed well at my old QTH in KH6. >> The only other V3 station was V31MA who has an excellent location close >> to the water with a great take off to W/K and EU, but ran LP, so it was >> hard to compare on the RBN. I'm curious how the antenna performed as i >> finished the radials right before the contest and really didn't have a >> chance to check it out on the air. I had quite a few EU and many JAs that >> were there but I couldn't copy them as they were in the mud. >> Any comments on the signal/condx would be appreciated. >> 73 Bill K4XS/V31XX >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Antenna check for V31XX
Hi Bill, You should still be able to compare yourself to V31MA using the RBN data. Just find out how much power V31MA was running and compare it with your power level in units of dB. Then you can use the RBN data to compare your signal to V31MA as long as you subtract the dB difference in power from the V31MA data. Hope that makes sense. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 3:13 PM cqtestk4xs--- via Topband < topband@contesting.com> wrote: > After putting down 3600 yard staples to install 55 radials 130 ft for my > 100 ft wire vertical with a 30 ft L I was ready for the 160 test. For RX I > used an SAL-30 which performed well at my old QTH in KH6. > The only other V3 station was V31MA who has an excellent location close to > the water with a great take off to W/K and EU, but ran LP, so it was hard > to compare on the RBN. I'm curious how the antenna performed as i finished > the radials right before the contest and really didn't have a chance to > check it out on the air. I had quite a few EU and many JAs that were there > but I couldn't copy them as they were in the mud. > Any comments on the signal/condx would be appreciated. > 73 Bill K4XS/V31XX > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: RFI powerline ?
Hi Andy, I agree with David (K1WHS) that your RF Spectrum waterfall display does not look like powerline noise as it shows very repeatable bright and dark bands and the bright bands are equally spaced approximately if not exactly 500 Hz apart from each other and this is not what you would typically see for power line noise. I believe the IC-7851 has an audio spectrum display and audio waterfall display which also would be interesting to view (view them with your radio in AM mode using a wide filter setting). The IC-7851 even has an audio oscilloscope display which is interesting if it is power line noise but I won't get into those details right now to keep things simple. Keep us posted. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 9:25 AM David Olean wrote: > > Hello Andy, > > It looks like some form of man made QRM, and not power line noise. I am > very familiar with powerline noise, but our noise is at 120 Hz and yours > will be at 100 Hz, 60 vs 50 Hz) so it should sound a lower pitch than > what I am used to, but the waterfall display shows those evenly spaced > groups of noise and that does not look like power line noise. > > Dave K1WHS > > On 1/11/2022 4:37 AM, Karel Matousek wrote: > > Hi Andy. > > > > I do have the same noises problem over here as you have. > > > > I found that it isn’t a 110 KV powerline noise, but probably a > > broadband noise is coming from the direction 10 ° here in JO60OK. It's > > very annoying. On the 800 meters US beverage (300°) the noise is S4, > > but on my second stateside 4 EL bidirectional (330°/150°) broadside > > K9AY array 84 meters apart uses the 0° hybrid combiners it is very > > strong. It interrupts all night. At first, I thought it was a local > > noise made by switching power supply. I’m so sorry, but I do not have > > the beverage pointing directly to the north. During the day, the band > > is clean, without noise, but when getting dark, the noise begins to be > > heard and after midnight it is then very strong. > > > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DhkrxjaX0Mv171psVF4F_cfOHFB7hEX9 > > > > Karel OK1CF > > __ > >> Od: "Andree DL8LAS via Topband" > >> Komu: "topband@contesting.com" > >> Datum: 11.01.2022 09:21 > >> Předmět: Topband: RFI powerline ? > >> > > Hey gentlemen, > > I have a powerline 110KV nearby my beveragesthis is the sound in > > AM, not strong but also not good.Is this RFI normal from the line or > > is this an insulator or another problem?Here you can see a short > > video and hear the signal from today. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oue6JGBKzgg > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oue6JGBKzgg> > > 73 Andy DL8LAS > > > > > > www.dl8las.com > > www.swing-company-bigband.de/ > > www.uni-big-band-kiel.de/ > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> - Topband Reflector > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions
Hi Jose, I would like to make one more comment to make us all scratch our heads. You said "The remain wires works like two vertical in phase, as the same in any flag". But the Flag when modeled has an RDF of around 7.8 but you can model two 14 foot tall phased verticals (somewhat similar to verticals like those used in the YCCC design as an example) spaced 29 feet apart (same dimensions as a full size flag) and obtain an RDF of 9.26 which is definitely not the same as the Flag (just something to ponder). Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 12:14 AM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Jose, > > To keep things simple, I say the K9AY is not like a pennant or flag since > it has been demonstrated by many people to be more ground dependent > (sometimes needing added ground radials). Under certain conditions the > K9AY should be identical to a Flag or Pennant but since ground radials have > been shown to drastically impact the K9AY performance depending on the > ground conditions this sure does not sound like this is always the case. > > I won't debate the SAL (Shared Apex Loop), other than to say from a > construction standpoint it's definitely not the same as the K9AY or other > EWE type antenna (Flag, Pennants, etc.), and modeling the SAL definitely > yields a different pattern than a single pennant or flag when used in the > "in line direction" but as you said modeling does not always reflect > reality (your example was EZNEC not doing a good job with loops close to > ground). I have never used an SAL and therefore my statements are only > based on what modeling yields, but to say the SAL is the same as a K9AY is > hard to believe regardless if it performs better or worse than the K9AY, > just based on the design. > > P.S. I believe there is a newer version of the SAL in which the two > halves of the SAL share the same center vertical conductor, but again I'm > not making any claims about the design. Also note I'm using 4NEC2 for my > modeling, not that it necessarily impacts my above statements. > > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 10:27 PM Jose_Carlos wrote: > >> Don >> >> I’m afraid your information is not accurate, SAL is the same as a K9AY, >> the two wires close to each other can be removed because they cancel each >> other. The remain wires works like two vertical in phase, as the same in >> any flag, loaded loop or pennant. The cardioid pattern is the same. >> >> The is no implementation of two SAL in phase because it does not work, >> the phasing system is too complex to phase two SAL. >> >> If you know the people that actually tested the antenna, you know that >> the claimed RDF was never achieved. >> >> The RDF of the K9AY is the same of the SAL, the EZENEC does a horrible >> job with loops close to the ground. >> >> Saying that, both antennas are excellent receiver antennas if you don’t >> have anything else. >> >> 73’s >> JC >> N4IS >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows >> >> From: Don Kirk >> Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 7:19 PM >> To: W0MU Mike Fatchett >> Cc: topband >> Subject: Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions >> >> Hi Mike and gang, >> >> It has been a long time since I looked at the SAL in which I modeled it >> with the help of the designer of the SAL (KB7GF). The SAL is actually >> different than the K9AY and other EWE types of RX antennas which have a >> typical RDF value of around 7.8 because the SAL (Shared Apex Loop) antenna >> actively uses two of its loops which are "in line" with each other for >> what >> you might call the primary direction (direction in line with the loops), >> and these two phased loops can provide an RDF value of around 9.2 >> depending >> on the coupler locations. For the off axis directions (45 degrees to the >> loops) I believe all 4 loops of the SAL are active (phased together) and >> they provide a pattern more like what you would expect from the K9AY or >> other EWEs with an RDF of approximately 7.8. Therefore in the 4 primary >> directions of the SAL the SAL definitely has a better RDF than the K9AY or >> other types of EWE receiving antennas. >> >> When used "in line" the RDF of the SAL is around 9.2 as mentioned above >> which is similar to what you would obtain using two phased verticals with >> 1/8 wavelength spacing. >> >> Just FYI, >> Don (wd8dsb) >> >> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:43 PM W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: >> >> > The SAL is pretty much just an AY loop with a more functional >> > controller? I have had moderate success with a pe
Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions
Hi Jose, To keep things simple, I say the K9AY is not like a pennant or flag since it has been demonstrated by many people to be more ground dependent (sometimes needing added ground radials). Under certain conditions the K9AY should be identical to a Flag or Pennant but since ground radials have been shown to drastically impact the K9AY performance depending on the ground conditions this sure does not sound like this is always the case. I won't debate the SAL (Shared Apex Loop), other than to say from a construction standpoint it's definitely not the same as the K9AY or other EWE type antenna (Flag, Pennants, etc.), and modeling the SAL definitely yields a different pattern than a single pennant or flag when used in the "in line direction" but as you said modeling does not always reflect reality (your example was EZNEC not doing a good job with loops close to ground). I have never used an SAL and therefore my statements are only based on what modeling yields, but to say the SAL is the same as a K9AY is hard to believe regardless if it performs better or worse than the K9AY, just based on the design. P.S. I believe there is a newer version of the SAL in which the two halves of the SAL share the same center vertical conductor, but again I'm not making any claims about the design. Also note I'm using 4NEC2 for my modeling, not that it necessarily impacts my above statements. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 10:27 PM Jose_Carlos wrote: > Don > > I’m afraid your information is not accurate, SAL is the same as a K9AY, > the two wires close to each other can be removed because they cancel each > other. The remain wires works like two vertical in phase, as the same in > any flag, loaded loop or pennant. The cardioid pattern is the same. > > The is no implementation of two SAL in phase because it does not work, the > phasing system is too complex to phase two SAL. > > If you know the people that actually tested the antenna, you know that the > claimed RDF was never achieved. > > The RDF of the K9AY is the same of the SAL, the EZENEC does a horrible job > with loops close to the ground. > > Saying that, both antennas are excellent receiver antennas if you don’t > have anything else. > > 73’s > JC > N4IS > > Sent from Mail for Windows > > From: Don Kirk > Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 7:19 PM > To: W0MU Mike Fatchett > Cc: topband > Subject: Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions > > Hi Mike and gang, > > It has been a long time since I looked at the SAL in which I modeled it > with the help of the designer of the SAL (KB7GF). The SAL is actually > different than the K9AY and other EWE types of RX antennas which have a > typical RDF value of around 7.8 because the SAL (Shared Apex Loop) antenna > actively uses two of its loops which are "in line" with each other for what > you might call the primary direction (direction in line with the loops), > and these two phased loops can provide an RDF value of around 9.2 depending > on the coupler locations. For the off axis directions (45 degrees to the > loops) I believe all 4 loops of the SAL are active (phased together) and > they provide a pattern more like what you would expect from the K9AY or > other EWEs with an RDF of approximately 7.8. Therefore in the 4 primary > directions of the SAL the SAL definitely has a better RDF than the K9AY or > other types of EWE receiving antennas. > > When used "in line" the RDF of the SAL is around 9.2 as mentioned above > which is similar to what you would obtain using two phased verticals with > 1/8 wavelength spacing. > > Just FYI, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:43 PM W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: > > > The SAL is pretty much just an AY loop with a more functional > > controller? I have had moderate success with a pennant at V31 as well. > > > > W0MU > > > > On 1/5/2022 7:23 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: > > > I tried an AY loop decades ago, without the Array Solutions adjustable > > > termination controller, and I do not remember it being that useful for > > RX. > > > The antenna is ground dependant so perhaps it works better for some > than > > > others. Even a short Beverage may be a better choice. From my P40A > > station I > > > used a Pennant with decent results. It was inexpensive to build and not > > > ground dependant however it only covered one direction. The Array > > Solutions > > > Shared Apex Loop Array has great reviews and may be worth considering, > > Pete. > > > > > > John KK9A > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: > > > > > > I recently installed a K9AY loop (with the Array Solutions contro
Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions
Hi Mike and gang, It has been a long time since I looked at the SAL in which I modeled it with the help of the designer of the SAL (KB7GF). The SAL is actually different than the K9AY and other EWE types of RX antennas which have a typical RDF value of around 7.8 because the SAL (Shared Apex Loop) antenna actively uses two of its loops which are "in line" with each other for what you might call the primary direction (direction in line with the loops), and these two phased loops can provide an RDF value of around 9.2 depending on the coupler locations. For the off axis directions (45 degrees to the loops) I believe all 4 loops of the SAL are active (phased together) and they provide a pattern more like what you would expect from the K9AY or other EWEs with an RDF of approximately 7.8. Therefore in the 4 primary directions of the SAL the SAL definitely has a better RDF than the K9AY or other types of EWE receiving antennas. When used "in line" the RDF of the SAL is around 9.2 as mentioned above which is similar to what you would obtain using two phased verticals with 1/8 wavelength spacing. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:43 PM W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: > The SAL is pretty much just an AY loop with a more functional > controller? I have had moderate success with a pennant at V31 as well. > > W0MU > > On 1/5/2022 7:23 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: > > I tried an AY loop decades ago, without the Array Solutions adjustable > > termination controller, and I do not remember it being that useful for > RX. > > The antenna is ground dependant so perhaps it works better for some than > > others. Even a short Beverage may be a better choice. From my P40A > station I > > used a Pennant with decent results. It was inexpensive to build and not > > ground dependant however it only covered one direction. The Array > Solutions > > Shared Apex Loop Array has great reviews and may be worth considering, > Pete. > > > > John KK9A > > > > > > > > Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: > > > > I recently installed a K9AY loop (with the Array Solutions controller), > > and have a couple of questions. Installation is pretty standard, with a > > fiberglass pole at the center, ground rod at its base, and on the ground > > radials under each direction of the loop. > > > > The antenna is directional, as demonstrated by tuning in broadcast > > stations at the high end of the AM band and separating stations on the > > same frequency so that I can hear one or the other. Atmospheric noise > > is 1-2 S units more on my inverted L than on the K9AY antenna, but > > signal strengths of stations in the favored direction of the loop seem > > about the same or a bit lower than the inverted L. The Termination > > adjustment is working, to judge by the switching transients, but seems > > to make little or no difference. > > > > How do these results compare with others' experience? I didn't expect a > > "magic bullet", but the K9AY loop seems a little bit underwhelming. > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Andy (DL8LAS) strong into Midwest USA last night (recording)
Andy (DL8LAS) had a very nice signal into the Midwest US last night. I made a brief recording of him calling CQ and uploaded it onto youtube. Peaks were very strong but there was also considerable QSB (somewhat rapid and deep). Here is a link to the video for those interested. https://youtu.be/Oja9pF1Qnew Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Ground loop isolator that passes DC
Hi Chuck, Based on the application you mentioned, I suspect you’re looking for commercially available bias tees. MFJ sells Bias Tees. Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 3:33 PM Chuck Hutton wrote: > Hi - > > Many years ago I saw some ground loop isolators that pass DC. > > That is exactly what I need so that power can be sent over coax feeds to > preamp at the antenna. > > I cant find anything on eBay that mentions passing DC in an isolator. > None of the isolators I have will pass DC. > > Does anyone know an isolator that passes DC? I would like to avoid > building one. > > > Chuck > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: OK1CF recording from early this morning
Karel (OK1CF) was calling CQ for hours on end early this morning with very few callers, and his signal was very steady into the Indianapolis area so I decided to record and upload a brief recording of him to help motivate the topband gang. Karel consistently has one of the strongest signals out of Europe, and he hears very well (way to go Karel). Here is a link to my recording of Karel for those interested. Youtube video link https://youtu.be/FUQ4157w2og 73, and can't wait for another season on 160 meters. Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Interesting observation and comment (Skewed Path Vs. Horizontal/Vertical Polarization)
Hi John, Hard for me to argue your purely vertical antenna system skewed observations. Thanks as always. Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 2:06 PM John Kaufmann wrote: > On 160 and 80, I have an 8-circle vertical receiving array. On very long > paths, it is not uncommon to see skewing. The most common example is the > path to JA, where the direct path heading should be about 330 degrees from > my QTH in New England. However, for the last couple winter seasons, when > the path has been open, it has almost always been skewed to the west or > west > northwest. It has been quite rare to have a true direct path to JA on > either 160 or 80 from here. Because my array is strictly vertically > polarized with no horizontal component, the skewing appears to be occurring > in the vertical polarization dimension. I don't have a directional > horizontal antenna to compare here. > > Coinciding with this skewing to JA has been the almost complete absence of > a > true northerly path over the pole into Asia, primarily zone 18. In other > solar cycles, the over-the-pole path has opened for at least one or two > seasons at the bottom of the cycle, but not this most recent cycle. > > I might suspect there is some local source of skewing at my QTH that is > deflecting signals from the direct path heading, yet from time to time my > array does receive DX signals over the true short path to the northwest. > In > particular, KL7's are sometimes received from the correct NNW heading on > 160 > and 80. For that reason, I tend to discount the possibility of locally > generated skewing. > > 73, John W1FV > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Interesting observation and comment (Skewed Path Vs. Horizontal/Vertical Polarization)
Hi James, I left a word out, and I have now added the word into my below text (I added the word horizontal). Yes, multipath is certainly a variable, and I'm actually trying to include something that's not outwardly obvious regarding the directional response of a receive antenna related to horizontal polarization versus vertical polarization which is something I had never before considered (I'm not trying to exclude anything), and I don't recall it being discussed before. I suspect the signal is changing polarity frequently (probably rapidly) and probably often appears like circular polarization, etc. so it's a very complex picture. Thanks, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 1:30 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi James, > > Yes, multipath is certainly a variable, and I'm actually trying to include > something that's not outwardly obvious regarding the directional response > of a receive antenna related to polarization versus vertical polarization > which is something I had never before considered (I'm not trying to exclude > anything), and I don't recall it being discussed before. I suspect the > signal is changing polarity frequently (probably rapidly) and probably > often appears like circular polarization, etc. so it's a very complex > picture. > > Thanks, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 12:57 PM James Wolf wrote: > >> Don't dismiss the possibility of multipath reflections. >> >> Jim - KR9U >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+jbwolf=comcast@contesting.com] >> On >> Behalf Of Don Kirk >> Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 9:10 AM >> To: topband >> Subject: Topband: Interesting observation and comment (Skewed Path Vs. >> Horizontal/Vertical Polarization) >> >> While playing around with my portable flag that I designed for MF/HF radio >> direction finding, I noticed something that confused me for about a year, >> and I finally figured out what's going on which led me to think about the >> 160 meter skewed path comments I've seen over the years and wonder if some >> of the observed phenomena is really Vertical versus Horizontal >> polarization >> of the received signal and not really a skewed path. >> >> There is a local 10 meter beacon that uses an attic dipole and my portable >> flag as well as my tuned and untuned direction finding loops always >> indicate >> the signal is located approximately 350 degrees from my QTH >> whereas I know this is not correct. The beacon WA4OTD is actually >> located >> 8.6 miles away at a heading of 267 degrees (I'm almost 90 degrees off from >> the correct herading). >> >> Then a few weeks ago I noticed that when my good friend Jay (W9TC) was >> operating on 20 meters that my portable flag did not point in the correct >> direction of his house, and he's located 2.8 miles from my QTH and he uses >> horizontal beams on 20 meters. I then orientated my portable flag so it >> was >> horizontal versus the normal vertical orientation that I use, and "bingo" >> the portable flag now indicated the correct direction. I then went back >> and >> obtained a heading on the WA4OTD beacon on 10 meters with the portable >> flag >> orientated horizontal, and now it points the correct direction (mystery >> solved). >> >> I then went and looked at various antenna models using 4NEC2 in which I >> looked at the vertical gain versus horizontal gain of the antennas when >> mounted in their normal orientation, and this explained what I was seeing. >> Small loop antennas mounted vertical have a maximum horizontal gain that's >> shifted 90 degrees from the maximum vertical gain direction. I then >> modeled >> beverage antennas and their maximum horizontal gain is shifted 45 degrees >> from their maximum vertical gain direction. >> >> I suspect the polarization of received signals on 160 meters is constantly >> changing, but wonder if the skewed path observations over the years >> indicates the polarization of the received signal has shifted to >> predominantly horizontal versus vertical or a mix of both? Maybe a crazy >> thought, but thought I should share my observations with the topband >> group. >> >> I've not really had a problem tracking down typical local noise sources on >> MF/HF using my portable DF antennas orientated for vertical polarization, >> and that confirms the many comments that local noise on MF/HF are >> typically >> propagated vertically, but thought my observation was very interesting and >> it unlocked a year long mystery about the local signals that wer
Re: Topband: Interesting observation and comment (Skewed Path Vs. Horizontal/Vertical Polarization)
Hi James, Yes, multipath is certainly a variable, and I'm actually trying to include something that's not outwardly obvious regarding the directional response of a receive antenna related to polarization versus vertical polarization which is something I had never before considered (I'm not trying to exclude anything), and I don't recall it being discussed before. I suspect the signal is changing polarity frequently (probably rapidly) and probably often appears like circular polarization, etc. so it's a very complex picture. Thanks, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 12:57 PM James Wolf wrote: > Don't dismiss the possibility of multipath reflections. > > Jim - KR9U > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+jbwolf=comcast@contesting.com] > On > Behalf Of Don Kirk > Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 9:10 AM > To: topband > Subject: Topband: Interesting observation and comment (Skewed Path Vs. > Horizontal/Vertical Polarization) > > While playing around with my portable flag that I designed for MF/HF radio > direction finding, I noticed something that confused me for about a year, > and I finally figured out what's going on which led me to think about the > 160 meter skewed path comments I've seen over the years and wonder if some > of the observed phenomena is really Vertical versus Horizontal polarization > of the received signal and not really a skewed path. > > There is a local 10 meter beacon that uses an attic dipole and my portable > flag as well as my tuned and untuned direction finding loops always > indicate > the signal is located approximately 350 degrees from my QTH > whereas I know this is not correct. The beacon WA4OTD is actually located > 8.6 miles away at a heading of 267 degrees (I'm almost 90 degrees off from > the correct herading). > > Then a few weeks ago I noticed that when my good friend Jay (W9TC) was > operating on 20 meters that my portable flag did not point in the correct > direction of his house, and he's located 2.8 miles from my QTH and he uses > horizontal beams on 20 meters. I then orientated my portable flag so it > was > horizontal versus the normal vertical orientation that I use, and "bingo" > the portable flag now indicated the correct direction. I then went back > and > obtained a heading on the WA4OTD beacon on 10 meters with the portable flag > orientated horizontal, and now it points the correct direction (mystery > solved). > > I then went and looked at various antenna models using 4NEC2 in which I > looked at the vertical gain versus horizontal gain of the antennas when > mounted in their normal orientation, and this explained what I was seeing. > Small loop antennas mounted vertical have a maximum horizontal gain that's > shifted 90 degrees from the maximum vertical gain direction. I then > modeled > beverage antennas and their maximum horizontal gain is shifted 45 degrees > from their maximum vertical gain direction. > > I suspect the polarization of received signals on 160 meters is constantly > changing, but wonder if the skewed path observations over the years > indicates the polarization of the received signal has shifted to > predominantly horizontal versus vertical or a mix of both? Maybe a crazy > thought, but thought I should share my observations with the topband group. > > I've not really had a problem tracking down typical local noise sources on > MF/HF using my portable DF antennas orientated for vertical polarization, > and that confirms the many comments that local noise on MF/HF are typically > propagated vertically, but thought my observation was very interesting and > it unlocked a year long mystery about the local signals that were > intentionally transmitted using horizontal polarization that did not track > well with DF gear that normally does a phenomenal job. > > P.S. it took me a while to figure out how to look at vertical gain versus > horizontal gain using 4NEC2, but it was sure worth the effort. Normally > 4NEC2 displays total gain. > > Just FYI, and can't wait for the comments to come flooding in about my > crazy > idea :) 73, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: > http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Interesting observation and comment (Skewed Path Vs. Horizontal/Vertical Polarization)
While playing around with my portable flag that I designed for MF/HF radio direction finding, I noticed something that confused me for about a year, and I finally figured out what's going on which led me to think about the 160 meter skewed path comments I've seen over the years and wonder if some of the observed phenomena is really Vertical versus Horizontal polarization of the received signal and not really a skewed path. There is a local 10 meter beacon that uses an attic dipole and my portable flag as well as my tuned and untuned direction finding loops always indicate the signal is located approximately 350 degrees from my QTH whereas I know this is not correct. The beacon WA4OTD is actually located 8.6 miles away at a heading of 267 degrees (I'm almost 90 degrees off from the correct herading). Then a few weeks ago I noticed that when my good friend Jay (W9TC) was operating on 20 meters that my portable flag did not point in the correct direction of his house, and he's located 2.8 miles from my QTH and he uses horizontal beams on 20 meters. I then orientated my portable flag so it was horizontal versus the normal vertical orientation that I use, and "bingo" the portable flag now indicated the correct direction. I then went back and obtained a heading on the WA4OTD beacon on 10 meters with the portable flag orientated horizontal, and now it points the correct direction (mystery solved). I then went and looked at various antenna models using 4NEC2 in which I looked at the vertical gain versus horizontal gain of the antennas when mounted in their normal orientation, and this explained what I was seeing. Small loop antennas mounted vertical have a maximum horizontal gain that's shifted 90 degrees from the maximum vertical gain direction. I then modeled beverage antennas and their maximum horizontal gain is shifted 45 degrees from their maximum vertical gain direction. I suspect the polarization of received signals on 160 meters is constantly changing, but wonder if the skewed path observations over the years indicates the polarization of the received signal has shifted to predominantly horizontal versus vertical or a mix of both? Maybe a crazy thought, but thought I should share my observations with the topband group. I've not really had a problem tracking down typical local noise sources on MF/HF using my portable DF antennas orientated for vertical polarization, and that confirms the many comments that local noise on MF/HF are typically propagated vertically, but thought my observation was very interesting and it unlocked a year long mystery about the local signals that were intentionally transmitted using horizontal polarization that did not track well with DF gear that normally does a phenomenal job. P.S. it took me a while to figure out how to look at vertical gain versus horizontal gain using 4NEC2, but it was sure worth the effort. Normally 4NEC2 displays total gain. Just FYI, and can't wait for the comments to come flooding in about my crazy idea :) 73, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Very Little CW Activity
Hi Mike, Sorry to everyone. Guess that’s what happens when you do e-mail while still in bed hiding under the sheets so you don’t wake your wife with the bright screen on your phone. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 3:42 PM W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: > This was meant for the RFI list. > > On 3/27/2021 4:06 AM, Don Kirk wrote: > > Hi Gary, > > > > Yes, based on how strong the RFI is on 20 meters, your un-tuned shielded > > loop should definitely hear the noise on 20 meters (as an example) based > on > > my tests even without using an external preamp with your loop. Your > > un-tuned shielded loop works just as good as a conventional one of > similar > > size and turns on 14 MHz and above, so no need to use anything else for > > this exercise since the signal is so strong. > > > > Remember to use AM mode with wide filter, all noise blankers off, and > > preamp on if your radio has one, and you should hear that RFI unless the > > noise is internally generated in the antenna due to a bad joint, bad coax > > connection, etc. Start out near your vertical. Also try the loop (or > > piece of wire) in place of your vertical as we previously mentioned, etc. > > > > Feel free to call me on my cell phone number which I previously provided > if > > needed. > > > > We are all anxious to find out the root cause of your RFI. > > > > (Note: you mentioned just barely hearing it in your shack on 6 meters > using > > your loop and it might be hearing it direct or from the open ends of your > > feed line from your vertical that’s in your shack, or coupling to other > > metal or wiring nearby etc. Shorting the open end of your coax is > > something you can try when using your loop in your shack if your open end > > of coax sits nearby. The real test is what you will hear outdoors and in > > place of your vertical, or using simple piece of wire outdoor in place of > > your vertical, etc). > > > > 73, > > Don > > > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 11:12 PM VE6WZ Steve wrote: > > > >> Roger, > >> Just to add some perspective from Western NA, the 160m conditions have > >> been absolutely horrible for the last month. > >> The goe-magnetic activity and AU levels have been so high that the > >> trans-polar path to Europe has been shut down completely for 5 weeks, > >> except for one evening. > >> > >> Perhaps working into East coast and even mid-west NA from EU has been > >> possible lately, but any path transiting close to the pole has been shut > >> down. > >> > >> This season up until late January I have worked over 1,400 EU on 160m CW > >> since August. Usually working 20-30 each evening. I check the band > almost > >> every night and watch the RBN. Since late January, the band has been > >> slammed shut at my northern latitude. > >> > >> 73, de steve ve6wz > >> > >> > >> > >> From Babcocks iPhone > >> > >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:05 PM, Roger Kennedy < > >> ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> wrote: > >>> > >>> Quite a lot of us Europeans come on the band each night calling CQ DX . > >> . . > >>> but getting very few replies. > >>> > >>> According to RBN reports, DX Propagation across the pond seems > >> reasonable . > >>> . . > >>> > >>> So is it just that there are very few American stations coming on 160 > >> these > >>> days? > >>> > >>> Roger G3YRO > >>> > >>> _ > >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > >> Reflector > >> _ > >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > >> Reflector > >> > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Very Little CW Activity
Hi Gary, Yes, based on how strong the RFI is on 20 meters, your un-tuned shielded loop should definitely hear the noise on 20 meters (as an example) based on my tests even without using an external preamp with your loop. Your un-tuned shielded loop works just as good as a conventional one of similar size and turns on 14 MHz and above, so no need to use anything else for this exercise since the signal is so strong. Remember to use AM mode with wide filter, all noise blankers off, and preamp on if your radio has one, and you should hear that RFI unless the noise is internally generated in the antenna due to a bad joint, bad coax connection, etc. Start out near your vertical. Also try the loop (or piece of wire) in place of your vertical as we previously mentioned, etc. Feel free to call me on my cell phone number which I previously provided if needed. We are all anxious to find out the root cause of your RFI. (Note: you mentioned just barely hearing it in your shack on 6 meters using your loop and it might be hearing it direct or from the open ends of your feed line from your vertical that’s in your shack, or coupling to other metal or wiring nearby etc. Shorting the open end of your coax is something you can try when using your loop in your shack if your open end of coax sits nearby. The real test is what you will hear outdoors and in place of your vertical, or using simple piece of wire outdoor in place of your vertical, etc). 73, Don On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 11:12 PM VE6WZ Steve wrote: > Roger, > Just to add some perspective from Western NA, the 160m conditions have > been absolutely horrible for the last month. > The goe-magnetic activity and AU levels have been so high that the > trans-polar path to Europe has been shut down completely for 5 weeks, > except for one evening. > > Perhaps working into East coast and even mid-west NA from EU has been > possible lately, but any path transiting close to the pole has been shut > down. > > This season up until late January I have worked over 1,400 EU on 160m CW > since August. Usually working 20-30 each evening. I check the band almost > every night and watch the RBN. Since late January, the band has been > slammed shut at my northern latitude. > > 73, de steve ve6wz > > > > From Babcocks iPhone > > > On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:05 PM, Roger Kennedy < > ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > Quite a lot of us Europeans come on the band each night calling CQ DX . > . . > > but getting very few replies. > > > > According to RBN reports, DX Propagation across the pond seems > reasonable . > > . . > > > > So is it just that there are very few American stations coming on 160 > these > > days? > > > > Roger G3YRO > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Portable Flag follow up (DX Engineering preamp noise figure update)
I should have said the so the 4.5 dB noise figure is certainly not unreasonable. Sorry for the typo. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 6:20 PM Don Kirk wrote: > A couple of weeks ago there were a lot of postings about my portable flag > for radio direction finding (for tracking down RFI), and someone asked > about the DX Engineering preamp that was designed for use with my portable > flag and specifically what the noise figure was for this preamp. Tim > (K3LR) said DX Engineering would measure it, and today he reported it > measured 4.5 dB. > > Tim mentioned that there were trade offs in the design such as low current > draw and high gain, so the 4.5 dB noise figure is certainly unreasonable. > It really is the only preamp I now use with my portable flag, and very > pleased with how it works. > > Just FYI, > Don (wd8dsb) > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Portable Flag follow up (DX Engineering preamp noise figure update)
A couple of weeks ago there were a lot of postings about my portable flag for radio direction finding (for tracking down RFI), and someone asked about the DX Engineering preamp that was designed for use with my portable flag and specifically what the noise figure was for this preamp. Tim (K3LR) said DX Engineering would measure it, and today he reported it measured 4.5 dB. Tim mentioned that there were trade offs in the design such as low current draw and high gain, so the 4.5 dB noise figure is certainly unreasonable. It really is the only preamp I now use with my portable flag, and very pleased with how it works. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Luke (VK3HJ) great signal this morning into Indiana.
I uploaded a short video of Luke (VK3HJ) who had a wonderful signal today just prior to my sunrise. This video was right after the QSO I had with Luke and I easily worked him with my 100 watts (thanks Luke). Here is a link to the youtube video: https://youtu.be/882ZBtfbEAA 73, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Wednesday CW DX Activity Night
Hi Roger, I had a lot of fun early this morning working into Eu an hour before through a little past their sunrise. A lot of QSB but pretty decent signals and I even did a 2 way 100 watt QSO with F5PLC. Did have QRN from lightning off SE coast of US. Definitely sunrise enhancement for a change. Unfortunately hardly anyone around in the US at that time in the morning answering the Eu stations calling CQ. Also heard a JH station this morning at my Sunrise which other US stations were working. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 1:30 PM Roger Kennedy wrote: > > Well looking at RBN reports from across the pond, 160m DX propagation > continues to be rather poor . . . > > There was heavy rain here last night, which gave me lot of power line > noise, > so couldn't copy any weak signals - apologies if you were calling me (only > worked a couple of NA stations) > > Roger G3YRO > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Antenna thoughts
Hi John, I think a tee is an excellent antenna for DX and as others have mentioned and that’s what I would us but thought I should mention something regarding NVIS capabilities. I suspect a tee is deaf as can be for NVIS signals just like my 68 foot base loaded vertical that I use on 160 meters. For contests that involve working stations in very close (like within 150 miles or so) there are times that I can’t hear the station on my TX vertical whereas they are 20 dB or greater than my noise floor on my receive pennants regardless of which pennant I select (really an amazing phenomenon). Just something to consider if you also need to work stations in close (like adjacent states). 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 3:20 AM John wrote: > Hello all.I currently have a coaxial inv. L.apex at 50ft and rest going > out at abt 45 degrees.The end is abt 20-30 ft high.It has been a very good > antenna.I used a l because I did not have the option of 2 masts.I am > changing a bit.Doing away from vhf/uhf beams.So I have another 50 ft > mast.They are abt 200ft apart.My question is…Would a tee type vertical be > better that an L.Yes I could elevate 2 or 3 radials.I am using a radial > ground on the inv.L.Thoughts on this please.I am not really concerned about > matching.Just effenciency.Is a tee better? Thanks,john > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Usable size of Flag antenna and FSM
I said “I'm glad I have the available extra gain that the DX Engineering preamp offers whereas most receivers would not benefit from it.” I should have said that having the extra gain should not be detrimental as the preamp also has selectable attenuation so it’s nice having the extra available gain when needed in such cases as mine. The DX engineering preamp also has an AM Broadcast Band Filter so it really is a nice preamp. In almost all cases people will likely start out with the 10 dB attenuator selected to realize 20 dB of gain, and then add attenuation as needed, etc. I’m now going to try and end my involvement in this post and wait for folks to move over to the RFI reflector for more discussion (if needed) about the portable flag for radio direction finding. Thanks to everyone and as usual I learned more about my system due to all the questions and comments. 73, Don wd8dsb Don On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 4:43 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi JC, > > Thanks for posting all the great info. > > In my article I mentioned I normally use 20 dB of gain with my portable > flag, but on 80 and 160 I sometimes use more gain. I just double checked, > and sure enough I really do need more than 20 dB of gain on 160 meters when > using my DX-440 receiver on weaker signals I just did a rough test on my > DX-440, and it's sensitivity at 1.8 MHz is considerably lower than it is at > 4 MHz as an example. I can just start hearing signals at 1.8 MHz that are > around -120 dBm (at 4 MHz it's more like -137 dBm), and I think this > explains why more than 20 dB is useful in my application down on 160 > meters. If we assume a 500 Hz wide filter, and thermal noise temperature > of 300 deg K, then I believe the thermal noise generates a -146.84 dBm > signal to the receivers input. If we then amplify that signal by 20 dB we > wind up at -126.84 dBm which is still a little below the level I can detect > with my receiver at 1.8 MHz. Tom W8JI mentioned a long time ago that more > than 20 dB should not be normally required with negative gain antennas > unless the receivers sensitivity is low, and that appears to be the case in > my situation (he actually said "40 dB gain in front of a receiver is pure > fantasy, unless the receiver is dead as a door nail". Therefore having 30 > dB of gain does indeed come in handy in my application whereas it should > not be necessary if I were using a receiver with better sensitivity (unless > I'm looking at this all wrong). I'm glad I have the available extra gain > that the DX Engineering preamp offers whereas most receivers would not > benefit from it. > > I hope this makes sense to everyone. > > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:58 PM wrote: > >> >> >> I would like to share some of my experience with small flags'. >> >> >> >> The directivity is the same for a large chance in frequency but the gain >> increase with size. >> >> >> >> As a reference NX4D started with a single flag 14' high 7' wide , using >> a 20 db gain preamp. Is was good enough to work 150 >> >> countries on 160m, for 80m you can reduce the size by 1/2 and expect the >> same results. Basically it is a flag like k9AY, EWE, pennant and others >> >> loaded loop, one resistor and one transformer. >> >> >> >> The RDF is a limitation and Doug phased two loops 14x7 spaced 16ft for a >> >> total boom of 30FT. all fiberglass, and an isolated mast from the tower >> and, >> >> not portable, I called small Waller Flag. The two 14x7 flag was good >> enough >> >> to work over 200 countries from a 1/5 acre lot in a subdivision with a >> lot of >> >> noise form neighbors. Detuning the TX antenna was a must for good >> >> performance, including working JT1CO direct path over the North pole on >> >> 160m. >> >> >> >> But the gain of the antenna was a limitation on 160m, and he built a >> Monster >> >> WF to work 311 DXCC on 160. >> >> >> >> 2 db NF and 20 db gain is all you need for a vertical flag or dual flag >> like the WF(Waller Flag, from Doug Waller, NX4D) >> >> >> >> 33db gain is too much for a flag or WF vertical, it is good for a flag or >> a >> >> WF horizontal, and at least 75 ft above ground. >> >> >> >> Here is important to remember if you S meter is moving you have too much >> >> gain, I match my preamp gain for s0 on band noise during the day. There >> is a >> >> lot of signals bellow S0. Keep the gain at minimum. >> >> >> >> To reduce common mode noise a twisted pair 100ohms feed like h
Re: Topband: Usable size of Flag antenna and FSM
Hi JC, Thanks for posting all the great info. In my article I mentioned I normally use 20 dB of gain with my portable flag, but on 80 and 160 I sometimes use more gain. I just double checked, and sure enough I really do need more than 20 dB of gain on 160 meters when using my DX-440 receiver on weaker signals I just did a rough test on my DX-440, and it's sensitivity at 1.8 MHz is considerably lower than it is at 4 MHz as an example. I can just start hearing signals at 1.8 MHz that are around -120 dBm (at 4 MHz it's more like -137 dBm), and I think this explains why more than 20 dB is useful in my application down on 160 meters. If we assume a 500 Hz wide filter, and thermal noise temperature of 300 deg K, then I believe the thermal noise generates a -146.84 dBm signal to the receivers input. If we then amplify that signal by 20 dB we wind up at -126.84 dBm which is still a little below the level I can detect with my receiver at 1.8 MHz. Tom W8JI mentioned a long time ago that more than 20 dB should not be normally required with negative gain antennas unless the receivers sensitivity is low, and that appears to be the case in my situation (he actually said "40 dB gain in front of a receiver is pure fantasy, unless the receiver is dead as a door nail". Therefore having 30 dB of gain does indeed come in handy in my application whereas it should not be necessary if I were using a receiver with better sensitivity (unless I'm looking at this all wrong). I'm glad I have the available extra gain that the DX Engineering preamp offers whereas most receivers would not benefit from it. I hope this makes sense to everyone. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:58 PM wrote: > > > I would like to share some of my experience with small flags'. > > > > The directivity is the same for a large chance in frequency but the gain > increase with size. > > > > As a reference NX4D started with a single flag 14' high 7' wide , using a > 20 db gain preamp. Is was good enough to work 150 > > countries on 160m, for 80m you can reduce the size by 1/2 and expect the > same results. Basically it is a flag like k9AY, EWE, pennant and others > > loaded loop, one resistor and one transformer. > > > > The RDF is a limitation and Doug phased two loops 14x7 spaced 16ft for a > > total boom of 30FT. all fiberglass, and an isolated mast from the tower > and, > > not portable, I called small Waller Flag. The two 14x7 flag was good > enough > > to work over 200 countries from a 1/5 acre lot in a subdivision with a > lot of > > noise form neighbors. Detuning the TX antenna was a must for good > > performance, including working JT1CO direct path over the North pole on > > 160m. > > > > But the gain of the antenna was a limitation on 160m, and he built a > Monster > > WF to work 311 DXCC on 160. > > > > 2 db NF and 20 db gain is all you need for a vertical flag or dual flag > like the WF(Waller Flag, from Doug Waller, NX4D) > > > > 33db gain is too much for a flag or WF vertical, it is good for a flag or > a > > WF horizontal, and at least 75 ft above ground. > > > > Here is important to remember if you S meter is moving you have too much > > gain, I match my preamp gain for s0 on band noise during the day. There is > a > > lot of signals bellow S0. Keep the gain at minimum. > > > > To reduce common mode noise a twisted pair 100ohms feed like helps a lot. > > > > Measure noise figure at 1.8 MHz is a great task and care, with a good > signal > > generator and good sound card, you can take one measure in 2 hours of work > > for -+ 0.1 db accuracy. > > > > Doug me and Dr Dallas did a long experiment to measure that and a small > flag > > 14'x7', was not thermal noise limited for DX use on low babnds. > > > > At a very quiet rural area with -125 dbm noise floor during the day. For > > reference , my city lot average -85 dbm during the day and the best I ever > > measured was -95db on those winter Sunday Mornings with light rain. > > > > The Dallas files is not available, Dr Dallas is SK but I have some paper I > > can share here. > > > > So a small loop is not thermal noise limited on 160m, and works very well > on > > 80, 60 40 and 30m. some big contest station using a HWF reported problems > of > > power line noise on 20m and the HWF saved them transmitting on the yagis > and > > receiving on the HWF. On 80 and 40m the HWF is comparable only to a 4 > > elements full size yagi. ( same directivity, but vertical noise canceling) > > > > The easy way and accurate is to use FSM easy to do in 3 steps , here >>> > > > > https://www.owenduffy.net/soft
Re: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!)
Hi Rick, This next piece of info is not really related, but here is another data point for folks since you mentioned using an AM radio with built in bar antenna tuned to 1710 KHz to track down powerline noise. I just checked the sensitivity of my portable flag versus built in bar antenna on a pretty weak station on 1550 KHz. With the built in bar antenna I can make out (understand) the audio but not well, and with the portable flag and 20 dB of preamp gain the station is loud and clear (using the same receiver which is a DX-440). Actually the portable flag with no preamp receives about the same as the bar end antenna on 1550 KHz on the DX-440. Also checked this station with a Sony Walkman that must have a bar antenna and I can detect the station is there but not readable. Therefore based on my tests the portable flag with just 20 dB of preamp gain will easily outperform an AM radio with built in bar antenna at the top of the AM broadcast band. I did these tests at 1pm and the 1550 KHz station is located 49 miles away and is running 250 watts, and I show up outside their daytime fringe zone by a considerable amount. YMMV. Here is another datapoint from Craig (VK3OD): "I also have access to the R HE200 HF DF antenna that our version of the FCC uses. Even with its preamp it will not detect the majority of noise sources that we encounter. The portable flag can easily hear the Ethernet powerline adaptor buckshot noise from my distant neighbours which this professional DF antenna wont even detect." Note: Craig was using an Advanced Receiver Research preamp which I believe provides 20 dB of gain. I'm not sure what frequency (band) Craig was using, and I'm following up on that. P.S. In my original article submission I mentioned the portable flag may or may not hear weak levels of RFI especially on 160 and 80 meters where the gain is very negative but I also said it's not as bad as it might appear because the normal noise floor often allows us to give away at least 20 or 30 dB of gain (due to ones typical noise floor on those bands). Unfortunately this information did not make the cutting room floor so to speak. Again, this antenna was not intended for anything but direction finding but it certainly will find other uses. Besides its unidirectional properties its broadband capabilities is often very handy. I do appreciate everyone's comments and number crunching (John:). It's a really interesting topic, and the antenna system thermal noise limitation is often a hard topic for folks to understand. The portable flag is definitely not intended to be a receive antenna for weak signal use (DX) on 160 meters to clear the air (so to speak). 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 11:47 AM Richard (Rick) Karlquist < rich...@karlquist.com> wrote: > > On 2/26/2021 7:31 AM, John Kaufmann via Topband wrote: > > I think there may be some semantic confusion over the term "averaging" > and > > how averaging affects noise when making spectral measurements, so let me > > clarify what I mean. My comments are specific to the P3 but are fairly > > Averaging is a nice technique that mitigates the poor sensitivity > of the mini-flag, but only for "bright lines" due to power > supplies, etc. I would be surprised if it would do anything > to improve DF'ing power line noise, which is clearly a major > application domain. > > 73 > Rick N6RK > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!)
Hi Jim and gang, I would like to make one minor correction and then add some more info. On my SDR receiver I should have said I increased averaging from 1 to 10 in my previous post (not 2 to 10) and this really made the noise floor drop and smooth out and this really helped expose the signal of interest on what I call the RF Spectrum Display. I just ran another simple test to understand how my SDR receiver responds to changes in the averaging value. Averaging does indeed improve the signal to noise ratio when looking at what I call the RF Spectrum Display, but it does not change what I see in the waterfall display. What's amazing with averaging is a signal that I can't see in the RF spectrum Display when average is set at 1 suddenly is 5 dB over the noise floor when I set averaging to 10. The peaks of the noise floor drops by at least 5 dB (and really smooths out) which exposes the CW signal I am generating locally for this test of the averaging function. Sorry to take up so much bandwidth on the topband reflector, but it really is an interesting discussion. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 11:24 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Jim, > > It’s funny that you brought up this topic as yesterday when I was doing > comparisons of the signal I could hear on my 160 meter vertical TX antenna > versus my portable flag, I increased the averaging value on my portable SDR > receiver connected to my portable flag and the signal that was barely > visible on the RF spectrum display when using my portable flag suddenly > stuck out like a sore thumb when I increased the averaging value from 2 to > 10 (the peaks of the noise floor dropped way down and smoothed right out). > This was a signal that was only 0.6 S units above my noise floor on my > TS-180s using my TX vertical and 1.0 S units above my noise floor when > using my half size pennant. I’m indeed able to see signals using my > portable flag with the DX engineering preamp that are not much above my > main stations noise floor (but I don’t know what my main stations noise > floor really measures, nevertheless I don’t consider it abnormally high). > I will try and determine my main stations noise floor as time permits. > > Just FYI, and 73. > > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 10:40 PM Jim Brown > wrote: > >> On 2/25/2021 5:16 PM, John Kaufmann via Topband wrote: >> > The P3 averages power, not amplitude, so using longer averaging times >> just >> > smooths the display and doesn't reduce random noise. >> >> It has nothing to do with power. Last I looked, the P3 is reading and >> displaying the instantaneous voltage in the IF, and can be calibrated to >> voltage at the input. >> >> I've been doing swept measurements of complex quantities for nearly 40 >> years, first at audio frequencies and now at RF. Averaging DOES cause >> random contents of a bin to approach zero (or the noise floor), making >> correlated signals stand out. This has long been well understood. >> >> I the principle to measure the dynamic response of broadcast signal >> processing in a peer-reviewed paper to the Audio Engineering Society in >> 1986. The test signal was a swept sine embedded deep in musical program >> material to the point that it was barely audible to a trained listener, >> and detected by a synchronized swept narrowband detector. Because the >> swept excitation and swept detector are synchronized, the measurement >> produces the complex response of the system, and program material, being >> non-coherent, averages out. >> >> http://k9yc.com/AESPaper-TDS.pdf >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!)
Hi Jim, It’s funny that you brought up this topic as yesterday when I was doing comparisons of the signal I could hear on my 160 meter vertical TX antenna versus my portable flag, I increased the averaging value on my portable SDR receiver connected to my portable flag and the signal that was barely visible on the RF spectrum display when using my portable flag suddenly stuck out like a sore thumb when I increased the averaging value from 2 to 10 (the peaks of the noise floor dropped way down and smoothed right out). This was a signal that was only 0.6 S units above my noise floor on my TS-180s using my TX vertical and 1.0 S units above my noise floor when using my half size pennant. I’m indeed able to see signals using my portable flag with the DX engineering preamp that are not much above my main stations noise floor (but I don’t know what my main stations noise floor really measures, nevertheless I don’t consider it abnormally high). I will try and determine my main stations noise floor as time permits. Just FYI, and 73. Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 10:40 PM Jim Brown wrote: > On 2/25/2021 5:16 PM, John Kaufmann via Topband wrote: > > The P3 averages power, not amplitude, so using longer averaging times > just > > smooths the display and doesn't reduce random noise. > > It has nothing to do with power. Last I looked, the P3 is reading and > displaying the instantaneous voltage in the IF, and can be calibrated to > voltage at the input. > > I've been doing swept measurements of complex quantities for nearly 40 > years, first at audio frequencies and now at RF. Averaging DOES cause > random contents of a bin to approach zero (or the noise floor), making > correlated signals stand out. This has long been well understood. > > I the principle to measure the dynamic response of broadcast signal > processing in a peer-reviewed paper to the Audio Engineering Society in > 1986. The test signal was a swept sine embedded deep in musical program > material to the point that it was barely audible to a trained listener, > and detected by a synchronized swept narrowband detector. Because the > swept excitation and swept detector are synchronized, the measurement > produces the complex response of the system, and program material, being > non-coherent, averages out. > > http://k9yc.com/AESPaper-TDS.pdf > > 73, Jim K9YC > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
Hi Tim, Thanks, and I have gain vs frequency plot on my website for the DX Engineering preamp and my measurements agree with yours. The DX Engineering preamp designed for use my my portable flag is definitely my favorite preamp to use with my portable flag. Will be interesting to see what noise figure you guys measure. Thanks and 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 4:55 PM Tim Duffy wrote: > Hello Don and John: > > DXE has not measured the noise figure of the loop preamp yet, but we will > soon and it will be posted on the part detail for the loop amplifier. > https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-nl-pre-att-1 > > I suspect the noise figure is about 3 dB. > > I am using the WD8DSB noise loop and the handheld preamp here at K3LR to > find several noise sources. I measured the pre amp gain at 32 dB on 160 and > 10 meters. > > 73 > Tim K3LR > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+k3lr=k3lr@contesting.com] On > Behalf Of Don Kirk > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 3:33 PM > To: john.kaufm...@verizon.net > Cc: TopBand List > Subject: Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna > > Hi John, > > You started this mess (or maybe I did), and finally here is my response to > a few of the questions you had and thanks so much for waiting in line for > my response. > > 1) As I have mentioned in a few other responses I suspect having the short > 10 foot feedline helps to negate common mode noise and direct signal > ingress into the feedline that often haunts us. I do have one > recommendation about pattern distortion as follows. Check to make sure the > peak and the null of the antenna are in agreement on the signal you are > direction finding. If you notice a slight skew (where they don't agree > with each other), then move away from existing objects and this will > correct that problem. I sometimes notice a slight skew when in my backyard > near my house (looks like the null shifts slightly from where it should > be), and when I get out away from my house (I move to the sidewalk in front > of my house) the slight pattern skew goes away. > > 2) I don't know what the DX Engineering preamp noise figure is, and there > definitely is no expectation from the designers standpoint that it's > spectacular. Even though I did most of the field testing of this preamp I > have no idea what the amplifier part of the circuit is as DX Engineering > tightly controls their designs. > > 3) My antenna does not have a long mast, and it easily fits in the back > seat of my very small 1996 Saturn Station Wagon. It fits widthwise in my > backseat, and I have to imagine it will do the same in almost any car since > my car is about as small as they come. Looks like the DX Engineering > version of my antenna has a longer mast, and that can easily be shortened > if it helps you fit the antenna into other areas of your vehicle. I only > use the extension on my antenna if I'm doing some stationary tests in my > backyard, otherwise I use it as shown on the cover of QST. > > I Really appreciate you jumping in so quickly on the antenna build and > reporting some of your results. Sometimes when I have a few minutes I will > go outside and just play with the antenna and marvel on how simple it is, > but how well it works. > > I hope I have now covered the majority of everyones questions and > comments. If there are other comments or questions we probably should move > this discussion over to the RFI Reflector or e-mail me direct. > > 73, > Don (wd8sb) > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 1:26 PM John Kaufmann via Topband < > topband@contesting.com> wrote: > > > Some of you may have seen the article by WD8DSB in the latest issue of > QST. > > I believe WD8DSB is on this reflector. His article describes a mini-flag > > antenna that can be used for direction-finding. The neat thing about > this > > antenna, besides its compact size, is that it is unidirectional and is > very > > broadband. It works from the AM BCB through 10m. It produces a sharp > null > > off the back which allows you to determine signal direction without the > > direction ambiguity you get with a conventional unterminated loop. > > > > > > > > DX Engineering is producing this antenna as a kit, along with a companion > > preamp. (Disclaimer: I have no affiliation or commercial interest in DX > > Engineering). See: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-noiseloop. > I > > just bought the flag kit last week and finished assembling it this past > > weekend. I see today that the kit is now back-ordered until April so it > > was > > good that I ordered it as soon as I saw the QST article. >
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
Hi John, You started this mess (or maybe I did), and finally here is my response to a few of the questions you had and thanks so much for waiting in line for my response. 1) As I have mentioned in a few other responses I suspect having the short 10 foot feedline helps to negate common mode noise and direct signal ingress into the feedline that often haunts us. I do have one recommendation about pattern distortion as follows. Check to make sure the peak and the null of the antenna are in agreement on the signal you are direction finding. If you notice a slight skew (where they don't agree with each other), then move away from existing objects and this will correct that problem. I sometimes notice a slight skew when in my backyard near my house (looks like the null shifts slightly from where it should be), and when I get out away from my house (I move to the sidewalk in front of my house) the slight pattern skew goes away. 2) I don't know what the DX Engineering preamp noise figure is, and there definitely is no expectation from the designers standpoint that it's spectacular. Even though I did most of the field testing of this preamp I have no idea what the amplifier part of the circuit is as DX Engineering tightly controls their designs. 3) My antenna does not have a long mast, and it easily fits in the back seat of my very small 1996 Saturn Station Wagon. It fits widthwise in my backseat, and I have to imagine it will do the same in almost any car since my car is about as small as they come. Looks like the DX Engineering version of my antenna has a longer mast, and that can easily be shortened if it helps you fit the antenna into other areas of your vehicle. I only use the extension on my antenna if I'm doing some stationary tests in my backyard, otherwise I use it as shown on the cover of QST. I Really appreciate you jumping in so quickly on the antenna build and reporting some of your results. Sometimes when I have a few minutes I will go outside and just play with the antenna and marvel on how simple it is, but how well it works. I hope I have now covered the majority of everyones questions and comments. If there are other comments or questions we probably should move this discussion over to the RFI Reflector or e-mail me direct. 73, Don (wd8sb) On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 1:26 PM John Kaufmann via Topband < topband@contesting.com> wrote: > Some of you may have seen the article by WD8DSB in the latest issue of QST. > I believe WD8DSB is on this reflector. His article describes a mini-flag > antenna that can be used for direction-finding. The neat thing about this > antenna, besides its compact size, is that it is unidirectional and is very > broadband. It works from the AM BCB through 10m. It produces a sharp null > off the back which allows you to determine signal direction without the > direction ambiguity you get with a conventional unterminated loop. > > > > DX Engineering is producing this antenna as a kit, along with a companion > preamp. (Disclaimer: I have no affiliation or commercial interest in DX > Engineering). See: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-noiseloop. I > just bought the flag kit last week and finished assembling it this past > weekend. I see today that the kit is now back-ordered until April so it > was > good that I ordered it as soon as I saw the QST article. > > > > It took me about 3 hours to assemble the mini-flag even though the DXE Web > site says it can be done in 1-2 hours. There is a bit of fussy mechanical > assembly involved in getting the symmetry and dimensions just right, > although it's not hard work. The flag is 42 inches wide and 21 inches > tall. > The DXE version of the antenna has slightly smaller dimensions than those > given in the QST article, which results in a small reduction in gain, which > doesn't really matter, but the pattern is the same. > > > > I did some testing of the mini-flag in the AM BCB. The gain is very > low--about -65 dBi on 160m--so it needs a good preamp. I used a homebrew > preamp made up of a couple of MMIC's that produce about 35 dB of gain. The > DXE preamp for this antenna won't be available until April. On the higher > frequencies, less preamp gain is needed because the gain of the mini-flag > increases with frequency. > > > > My initial tests indicate this antenna clearly works. By rotating the flag > for the deepest null, I could nail the heading an AM BCB station to a few > degrees. > > > > This antenna could also be used as directional receiving antenna on its > own. > Although it is not hugely directive, it can be rotated easily to peak or > null signals or noise, and it is better than a conventional unterminated > loop. It has essentially the same RDF as other larger flag or pennant > antennas but is obviously far mor
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
Hi Dave, I hate to recommend anything and others have given you some good recommendations, nevertheless I will make a few comments. My workhorse radio for direction finding is the good old Realistic DX-440 (also sold as a Sangen ATS-803A) and you can still find nice clean used ones on E-Bay for less than $100 (I suspect I drove the price of them up). It is a very old and large radio, but I love this radio for numerous reasons. It has an external antenna jack as well as an excellent continuously adjustable RF gain control that really comes in handy. It also has a BFO for receiving CW which sometimes is very helpful depending on the signal you are tracking. It uses 6 D cells and has excellent battery life. I use the radio in AM mode for tracking down power line noise, but sometimes I need to use the BFO for signals that are just a carrier as it helps to hear the signal (no need to look at a meter, etc). I also use a laptop based SDR receiver which is just a cheap RTL-SDR dongle along with a ham it up converter (both from NooElec) and I have both of these stuck to the back of my laptop screen so I can go portable with it, and this is a very handy tool especially if the signal is wandering all over the place or if I am in a heavily populated area with lots of different sources of RFI present. If you go this route make sure you pay the few extra bucks for a TCXO in both of them. The IC-705 is also a radio that likely would work well, especially since it has waterfall displays for both the RF and Audio Spectrum, and it also has an Audio Oscilloscope and I'm anxious to see how helpful that might be. I see there is now a very small handheld HF SDR receiver called the Malahit (looks like the size of nanoVNAs), but I don't know how good they really work. If they become a trusted device I certainly will be interested in using one for DFing. 73 my friend, Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 9:18 PM David Raymond wrote: > Don. . .thank you for the very nice loop article in QST. And, thank > you for your generosity of not taking compensation to help make it > affordable. The loop antenna would be a very useful tool to have in the > arsenal for DFing interference sources of all kinds which continue to > proliferate (even out in the country where I live). I am currently > experiencing an interference problem on 160m that is about 10-15 KHz > broad with a couple of modest peaks. It often parks in the 1825-1835 KHz > window on 160m. The frequency range it occupies wanders some and varies > inversely with the outside temperature. I have DFd it fairly close with > the HI-Z 8 circle array and know the direction of the source but need > something portable to home in on it. Do you or anyone here any > suggestions for a reasonably good portable receiver with an external > antenna jack (might be hard to find?) that will cover the 160m band . . > .and maybe up to 30 MHz? > > Thanks and 73. . . Dave, W0FLS > > On 2/23/2021 5:37 PM, John Kaufmann via Topband wrote: > > As a follow-up to my original post, here are a few additional comments. > > > > Don, you mention that you designed the mini-flag for a deep null off the > > back at low elevation angles, which is entirely understandable. As I > said > > in my earlier post, the null is very pronounced in the AM BCB on local > > groundwave signals. However, I also see pretty significant nulls on > > higher-angle signals, too. Just a short time ago, I was listening to > W1AW > > on the low end of 160. They are located only ~100 miles from me. Their > > signal has to be arriving at a pretty high angle, but the null is still > > quite pronounced. > > > > My homebrew preamp, that I mentioned in my post, uses a cascade of UTO > 511 > > and UTO 533 mini-amplifier modules. I used this preamp, not necessarily > > because it's optimal, but because I already happened to have it on hand. > > The gain of the 511 is given as 16 dB typical while the 533 is 17 dB, > which > > should yield a net gain of ~33 dB for the cascade of the two. The noise > > figure on the 511 that serves as the input amplifier is specified as 2.3 > dB, > > but its spec sheet gives an operational frequency range of 5-500 MHz, so > I > > can't be sure the noise figure (or the gain) holds up at lower > frequencies. > > Nonetheless I can hear the ambient noise in my receiver increase on 160m > > when I connect the mini-flag to the preamp, which suggests the noise > figure > > for this preamp is at least adequate at my location. I use a Yaesu > FT-817ND > > "backpack" radio as a portable radio with this antenna. > > > > In EZNEC I calculate the RDF of this mini-flag as 7.4 dB on 160m at a 20 > > degree elevation angle. That's essentially the same as the
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
Hi George and gang, I really appreciate you as well as Steve WB6RSE making sure folks understand there are performance limitations when using very small antennas such as my portable flag as a dedicated receive antenna (especially on 160 meters) and that is indeed the case. I definitely did not intend for my portable flag to be a dedicated receive antenna for use on 160 meters knowing there are limitations, but there still may be appropriate applications for it on 160 meters besides being a portable direction finding antenna depending how high ones noise floor is or as a unidirectional sense antenna for a noise reduction system to combat very strong local RFI, etc. I suspect placement of the preamp at the antenna would be wise if using the portable flag as a dedicated RX antenna to help maintain the signal to noise ratio (deliver strongest received signal possible to the preamp in order to offset the ill effects of the preamp noise figure), but I'm certainly not promoting my portable flag for anything but radio direction finding when used on 160 meters. I designed the portable flag specifically for direction finding knowing that I likely would not be able to detect signals using the portable flag that I can hear just above my noise floor when using my half size pennant or TX antenna on 160 meters and that is indeed the case, but to put things into perspective it's probably not as bad as everyone imagines based on the noise floor at my location which actually is not too bad (I really work hard on keeping it in check by tracking down noise sources and working with owners to reduce or eliminate it). As a very crude test I have a local signal around 1.830 MHz that comes from a Fire Control Panel 0.75 miles from my house that I can use as a signal source for running some simple receive antenna tests. I just checked on my Kenwood TS-180s with a 500 Hz wide filter using my 68 foot base loaded vertical and the signal is approximately 0.6 S units above my noise floor. I then checked the same signal using my approximately half size pennant (51.6% of a full size pennant) using the DX Engineering preamp and the signal is running exactly 1 S unit above my noise floor. I then went outside and I can detect this same signal using my portable flag with 30 dB of preamp gain but the signal is just barely detectable by ear but easily observed on my SDR waterfall display. This performance is actually better than I thought possible, but we have to remember that the feedline on my portable flag is only 10 feet long which likely negats a lot of issues regarding common mode noise and signal ingress on the feedline. I'm not sure what the limiting factor I'm currently encountering on 160 meters is with the portable flag (not enough preamp gain, too high of noise figure on the preamp, antenna thermal noise limited, etc ), but the current system certainly meets my original design objectives and then some. Note: my noise floor measures S 5.5 during the day using my 68 foot base loaded vertical on 160 meters (S meter not necessarily calibrated) and I'm just able to detect signals that are 0.6 S units above this using my portable flag when using the DX Engineering preamp that provides 30 dB of gain (just to provide a rough picture). Also it is often said that evertunally the antenna can get so small that the feedline acts as the antenna. I have used the portable flag on Non Directional Beacons down at 338 KHz and the portable flag still exhibits exceptional directivity but again we have to remember the feedline is only 10 feet long. I just checked this NDB which is 4.5 miles from my house with the portable flag and the front to back ratio measured 33 dB so the portable flag itself is still performing exceptionally well as a unidirectional antenna versus the feedline acting as the antenna down at 338 KHz. I will try and answer some questions that others have asked in a few more posts, and then I will probably ask that we move additional posts or comments over to the RFI reflector since I designed this antenna for direction finding of RFI and not as a dedicated receive antenna for 160 meters and I don't want to push the limits on what we should be posting on the topband reflector. Thanks again and always appreciate your comments. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 9:32 AM GEORGE WALLNER wrote: > Don, > > I put that note out because friends were asking if with a > "ultra-low-noise" pre-amp they could use it for DX. Unfortunately, that's > not the case. (I have tried.) > > Of course, that does not diminish the usefulness of your antenna for DR. > Also, a somewhat larger version (1.5 - 2 m per side) could be useful for > very noisy locations. > > TKS for starting this discussion as we still have more to discover with > resistor loaded loops. > > > > 73, > > George, > > AA7JV/C6AGU > > > > > > > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 21:46:
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
Hi Rob, Front to back ratio all depends on the arrival angle of the signal, and the portable flag directional properties are just like full size flag directional properties assuming you select the appropriate termination resistor. On my portable flag website I show front to back ratio vs elevation angle when using a 680 ohm termination resistor versus using a 820 ohm termination resistor and you will see that you can move where the front to back ratio peaks to a higher elevation angle if using a 820 ohm termination resistor compared with using a 680 ohm termination resistor. I use a 680 ohm termination resistor because I wanted best performance for ground wave based signals but if I wanted to reject skywave signals off the back of the antenna versus local noise I would use a 820 ohm resistor as an example. Here is a link to my website where you will see the plots I mention: https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/ 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 6:31 AM Rob Atkinson wrote: > Bi-directional loops lose their directivity for the most part, when > being applied to skywave signals. Is this mini-flag still > unidirectional on skywave? I would think not, but must ask. > > 73 > Rob > K5UJ > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
Hi George, Thanks for mentioning that antenna system thermal noise eventually establishes the limiting factor where additional preamp gain will not provide any additional improvement in performance. Earlier today I was looking for a previous discussion by Tom (W8JI) that explained this very well and I believe he provided some examples but I have not yet located it (but still looking). 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 8:20 PM GEORGE WALLNER wrote: > The smaller the flag the lower its gain and its signal output. The limit > of > usefulness is reached when a weak signal is below the thermal (Johnson) > noise of the system (~ loading resistor). Below this point a pre-amp will > no > longer help. That limits the usefulness of small flags for weak signals, > regardless of RDF. > > 73, > George > AA7JV/C6AGU > > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:37:03 -0500 > John Kaufmann via Topband wrote: > > As a follow-up to my original post, here are a few additional comments. > > > > Don, you mention that you designed the mini-flag for a deep null off the > > back at low elevation angles, which is entirely understandable. As I > said > > in my earlier post, the null is very pronounced in the AM BCB on local > > groundwave signals. However, I also see pretty significant nulls on > > higher-angle signals, too. Just a short time ago, I was listening to > W1AW > > on the low end of 160. They are located only ~100 miles from me. Their > > signal has to be arriving at a pretty high angle, but the null is still > > quite pronounced. > > > > My homebrew preamp, that I mentioned in my post, uses a cascade of UTO > 511 > > and UTO 533 mini-amplifier modules. I used this preamp, not necessarily > > because it's optimal, but because I already happened to have it on hand. > > The gain of the 511 is given as 16 dB typical while the 533 is 17 dB, > which > > should yield a net gain of ~33 dB for the cascade of the two. The noise > > figure on the 511 that serves as the input amplifier is specified as 2.3 > dB, > > but its spec sheet gives an operational frequency range of 5-500 MHz, so > I > > can't be sure the noise figure (or the gain) holds up at lower > frequencies. > > Nonetheless I can hear the ambient noise in my receiver increase on 160m > > when I connect the mini-flag to the preamp, which suggests the noise > figure > > for this preamp is at least adequate at my location. I use a Yaesu > FT-817ND > > "backpack" radio as a portable radio with this antenna. > > > > In EZNEC I calculate the RDF of this mini-flag as 7.4 dB on 160m at a 20 > > degree elevation angle. That's essentially the same as the K9AY loop or > > other similar pennant/flag antennas. For use as a receiving antenna, the > > important thing is the noise figure of the preamp. The DX Engineering > Web > > site does not give the noise figure of their preamp. > > Don, perhaps you know? > > > > The other thing that might degrade the antenna is common-mode signal > pickup, > > which can be a problem for very low gain antennas where you are working > with > > very small signals. However, based on what I observe in terms of antenna > > pattern for this mini-flag, I can't say that I see any pattern effects > that > > might be attributable to common mode degradation. Don, maybe you can > > comment here as well on this aspect of the antenna. > > > > As I also mentioned in my earlier post, the dimensions of the DXE > > implementation are somewhat smaller than what's given in the QST article. > >For me, that works out well because the width of the DXE mini-flag just > > manages to fit inside the trunk of my mid-size sedan. A wider flag would > > not fit. > > > > 73, John W1FV > > > > -Original Message- > >From: Topband > > [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On > Behalf > > Of Don Kirk > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:22 PM > > To: wb6r...@mac.com > > Cc: Top Band List List > > Subject: Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna > > > > HI Steve, > > > > Thanks for the nice implementation comment. > > > > The portable flag front to back ratio is highly related to the elevation > > angle and frequency of operation (just like any terminated loop), and > > therefore I did not want to overstate the front to back ratio in my > > portable flag article. I designed the portable flag for direction > finding > > local RFI (ground wave based signals) and therefore made sure I selected > an > > appropriate termination resistor to provide a
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
HI Steve, Thanks for the nice implementation comment. The portable flag front to back ratio is highly related to the elevation angle and frequency of operation (just like any terminated loop), and therefore I did not want to overstate the front to back ratio in my portable flag article. I designed the portable flag for direction finding local RFI (ground wave based signals) and therefore made sure I selected an appropriate termination resistor to provide a very deep null at low elevation angles on 160, 80 and 40 meters where I often deal with RFI (the portable flag has a very high front to back ratio at low elevation angles), and because of this it also has exceptional front to back ratio at low elevation angles down in the AM Broadcast Band. Very small flags have just as good front to back ratio and RDF as a full size flag as long as the appropriate termination resistor is used. The problem is when the flag becomes too large for the frequency of operation which causes the directional properties to degrade. You can see some front to back ratio vs. elevation plots for my portable flag on my simple portable flag website and here is the URL to that site: https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/home Problem with very small flags is that the noise figure of the preamp becomes a critical parameter, and because of this I don't recommend attenuators be placed before the preamp as this causes degradation in the signal to noise ratio. I stumbled upon this issue when doing field tests on one of the DX Engineering prototype preamps, and had them change the design so the attenuators now come after the actual amplifier stage which solved the problem. Everything I said above about the performance of very small terminated loops assumes no interaction with surrounding objects, and ignores issues related with feedlines since the feedline is very short on the portable flag. P.S. I make no money from DX Engineering as I agreed to not be paid in order to keep the price of the portable flag as low as possible. 73, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ARRL CW Contest
Hi Roger and gang, I operated W9VW which is a pretty big contest station Saturday morning but did not get on 160 meters until 0545 UTC, and I commented to my fellow operators that conditions were about as poor as I have ever encountered on 160 from Indiana into Eu and I was running 1300 watts versus the 100 watts I typically run from my home station. I was also having issues with our other transmitter getting into our 9 circle RX array which did not help.. I did operate some from my home station Sunday morning but started at 0400 UTC and actually put a considerable amount of Eu stations in my log running my 100 watts, so maybe conditions favored the earlier hours Next year I will definitely try and get on 160 much earlier in the evening if I'm invited back to W9VW. I certainly felt embarrassed with my performance. 73, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: One Way Propagation.
Hi Roger, Signal report comparisons with the modern radios that often have preamps that you can switch in or out really clouds the picture as well as the fact most stations on topband use RX antennas. Assuming that all manufacturers have S meters that are calibrated identical to each other (which is not the case), the big question is if the S meter calibration was done with the preamp on or off, and if the person that is giving you a signal report has the preamp on or off. As an example the Elecraft S meter uses the common standard of S9 = 50 uV but the calibration is done with Preamp 1 on. And when a station is using an RX antenna everything goes out the window since RX antennas often have very negative gain, and then if an external preamp is being used that adds another variable. And if just using a TX antenna for receive there is a lot of difference in each stations antenna effective gain (due to ground losses, etc.) that adds another variable. A signal report of S2 or S6 tells me nothing on how well I am being heard since I need to know what your noise floor is too (unless you are telling me how many S units above your noise floor I am ). What helps me the most is to understand how many dB above your noise floor I am, and that is why you will see that when I spot a station on DX Summit, I say how many dB the station is peaking and that means how many dB above my noise floor the station is peaking (I think this is similar to what you see for signal reports on the RBN). Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 8:04 AM Roger Kennedy wrote: > > Well personally I always give Signal Strength reports from my S Meter . . > . > > So it doesn't matter whether my Noise Level is S2 or S6 . . . I'm telling > you how strong your signal is at my QTH. > > Roger G3YRO > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
Hi Lee, Csaba also refers to this transformer as T2 and based on what he has said so far I suspect he is constructing something similar to the two direction beverage shown in figure 7-115 in the 5th edition of Low-Band DXing. And T2 is indeed a two winding transformer with center tap. This transformer transforms the impedance of the open wire transmission line (745 ohms in Csabas case) to the coaxial feedline (75 or 50 ohm). The center tap is used to feed another transformer (T1). I could be wrong but reading between the lines I probably am correct. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 4:09 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Lee, > > Csaba said his transformer was " n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T ". This sure > sounds like a transformer with two separate windings (3 Turns on the > Primary, and 12 Turns on the Secondary and then it also has a center tap on > the secondary), but I could be wrong. I think Csaba needs to clarify > exactly what his transformer is, and his test circuit. > > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 3:22 PM Lee STRAHAN wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >>Assuming that you did not miss that this was a tapped winding and not >> separate windings as Csaba mentioned. I see on reflection that he measured >> 1:1.16 on one of his tests. In reality it wont likely get much better than >> that. That test was likely the 3:12 he mentioned using. The high impedance >> side of these transformers are a little unpredictable using simple formulas >> with winding capacitance and magnetizing inductance added in the mix. >> Sometimes I use wire wrap wire if it is not going to be used outside >> otherwise I use #27 high temp motor winding class insulation wire which >> helps keep from shorting the wires to the core. I have the benefit of many >> part spools of motor winding wire scraps from a best friend and Ham in the >> Motor rewinding business. By the way, Norton amplifiers require 1:11:4 >> which is the same problem to solve as they are separate windings in the >> ones I use. I also fit shrink tubing in the Norton amp cores for insulation >> first. I don’t use Teflon because it has a dielectric constant around 5 >> which increases the capacitance from the wire to the core. Its tedious but >> can be done easily. And in the case of the Norton amp it leaves room for a >> larger wire on the 1 turn winding. Yes 4 AND16 for 20 total can be done but >> yes it takes time and lots of patience. For those turns counts I go to # 75 >> material toroid cores which have slightly more winding room but require >> more turns usually for 160 meter stuff. All this probably more than you >> wanted to know. HNY >> Lee K7TJR OR >> >> From: Mike Waters >> Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 11:44 AM >> To: Lee K7TJR >> Cc: HA3LN ; topband >> Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers >> >> Lee, >> >> What kind of wire do you use that allows that many turns (4t and 16t)? >> >> 73 Mike >> W0BTU >> >> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 1:37 PM Lee STRAHAN > k7...@msn.com>> wrote: >> Hello Csaba, >>I approach this problem this way your impedance ratio is 745/50 ohms >> or 14.9 . To get turns ratio use the square root of that which is 3.86 . So >> round that up to 4 as a good turns ratio. >> On a BN73-202 core I usually use a minimum of 4 turns on the 50 ohm >> side for 160 meters, so the secondary would need 4 turns ratio times that >> for 16 turns. Therefore 16 turns tapped at 4 turns should work for you. >> Some will say the 3 turns on the 50 ohm side should work and the secondary >> then would be turns ratio 4 times that or 12 turns. Therefore 12 turns >> tapped at 3 turns should work well also. Sorry, I do not follow your >> formula as shown but you can use the above and it will work fine as an 800 >> ohm load to the 745 ohm source. This will reflect 745/16 or 46.6 ohms to >> your cable. SWR for that at the 50 ohm cable is 50/46.6 or 1.07 using >> resistance only for evaluation. >> Lee K7TJR OR >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Topband > msn@contesting.com>> On Behalf Of HA3LN >> Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 4:59 AM >> To: topband@contesting.com<mailto:topband@contesting.com> >> Subject: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers >> >> Hi All and HNY for 2021. >> >> Preparing for the CQ160m with new (2 coax) 2-wire beverages to cover the >> missing azimuthal gaps based on LBDX. The first 2x Bevs worked great back >> in last Jan. >> >> Now I have difficulties with reaching good imped match with the >> T2 transformer (responsible to trans
Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
Hi Lee, Csaba said his transformer was " n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T ". This sure sounds like a transformer with two separate windings (3 Turns on the Primary, and 12 Turns on the Secondary and then it also has a center tap on the secondary), but I could be wrong. I think Csaba needs to clarify exactly what his transformer is, and his test circuit. Don (wd8dsb) On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 3:22 PM Lee STRAHAN wrote: > Hi Mike, >Assuming that you did not miss that this was a tapped winding and not > separate windings as Csaba mentioned. I see on reflection that he measured > 1:1.16 on one of his tests. In reality it wont likely get much better than > that. That test was likely the 3:12 he mentioned using. The high impedance > side of these transformers are a little unpredictable using simple formulas > with winding capacitance and magnetizing inductance added in the mix. > Sometimes I use wire wrap wire if it is not going to be used outside > otherwise I use #27 high temp motor winding class insulation wire which > helps keep from shorting the wires to the core. I have the benefit of many > part spools of motor winding wire scraps from a best friend and Ham in the > Motor rewinding business. By the way, Norton amplifiers require 1:11:4 > which is the same problem to solve as they are separate windings in the > ones I use. I also fit shrink tubing in the Norton amp cores for insulation > first. I don’t use Teflon because it has a dielectric constant around 5 > which increases the capacitance from the wire to the core. Its tedious but > can be done easily. And in the case of the Norton amp it leaves room for a > larger wire on the 1 turn winding. Yes 4 AND16 for 20 total can be done but > yes it takes time and lots of patience. For those turns counts I go to # 75 > material toroid cores which have slightly more winding room but require > more turns usually for 160 meter stuff. All this probably more than you > wanted to know. HNY > Lee K7TJR OR > > From: Mike Waters > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 11:44 AM > To: Lee K7TJR > Cc: HA3LN ; topband > Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers > > Lee, > > What kind of wire do you use that allows that many turns (4t and 16t)? > > 73 Mike > W0BTU > > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 1:37 PM Lee STRAHAN k7...@msn.com>> wrote: > Hello Csaba, >I approach this problem this way your impedance ratio is 745/50 ohms or > 14.9 . To get turns ratio use the square root of that which is 3.86 . So > round that up to 4 as a good turns ratio. > On a BN73-202 core I usually use a minimum of 4 turns on the 50 ohm side > for 160 meters, so the secondary would need 4 turns ratio times that for 16 > turns. Therefore 16 turns tapped at 4 turns should work for you. Some will > say the 3 turns on the 50 ohm side should work and the secondary then would > be turns ratio 4 times that or 12 turns. Therefore 12 turns tapped at 3 > turns should work well also. Sorry, I do not follow your formula as shown > but you can use the above and it will work fine as an 800 ohm load to the > 745 ohm source. This will reflect 745/16 or 46.6 ohms to your cable. SWR > for that at the 50 ohm cable is 50/46.6 or 1.07 using resistance only for > evaluation. > Lee K7TJR OR > > -Original Message- > From: Topband msn@contesting.com>> On Behalf Of HA3LN > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 4:59 AM > To: topband@contesting.com<mailto:topband@contesting.com> > Subject: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers > > Hi All and HNY for 2021. > > Preparing for the CQ160m with new (2 coax) 2-wire beverages to cover the > missing azimuthal gaps based on LBDX. The first 2x Bevs worked great back > in last Jan. > > Now I have difficulties with reaching good imped match with the > T2 transformer (responsible to transform the 745 Ohms wire impedance to 50 > Ohm coax). I use n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T transformer (2m high, 20cm wide > with 0.8mm wire) > > What can be the reason for the impedance transformation is rather off to > the calculated value? > > This is the T2 transformer from 2019: > http://ha3ln.hu/VNA_190116_230811.jpg > ...and this from yesterday: > http://ha3ln.hu/VNA_210101_153241.jpg > > I have > - same wire with the diam (even from the same roll) > - same BN73-202 cores (tried to use several cores from different >sources to eliminate the possible mix inconsistencies) > - same winding method (including n2 tapping) > - created a low inductance test resistor network for 744 Ohms > > ...tried to wind > - lousy, and precise (crossing windings vs. side-by-side, bunched >wires, etc.) > - n1 first and n2, after n2 first and n1, of course no difference. > - without the tapp
Re: Topband: 160m Band opening phenomena
Hi Dave, And here in the midwest (Indiana) it was really dead early this morning an hour or two before EU sunrise. I spotted DL5AXX who was peaking 6 dB above my noise floor at most at 0623 UTC, and no other EU stations heard as I recall, it was just dead. Don (wd8dsb) On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 10:56 AM Artek Manuals wrote: > Here in Florida in the evenings we get a fairly consistent opening to > Europe it begins about 1 hour BEFORE local Sunset (2215Z) , Peaks about > 1/2 hour before Sunset and then all but dies out on most nights by 15min > after official sunset. Later around 0200Z things slowly build back up > till around local sunrise Europe. Last night during this opening I > actually was seeing more EU' stations as I was NA? > > Our sunrise opening is more traditional sunrise +/- 15 minutes to Asia > and the Pacific Islands > > Cant say what it was before since the last tme I was on 160 from Florida > before 2019/2020 season was back in 1985-1990 time frame > > Dave NR1DX > > On 12/16/2020 7:16 AM, Kees Nijdam wrote: > > Nothing wrong with conditions. Yesterday afternoon I worked K9FD in > > Hawaii and this morning the west coast and WL7SJ. > > Good propagation to Japan also. > > > > Kees, PE5T > > > > Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10 > > > > Van: Roger Kennedy > > Verzonden: woensdag 16 december 2020 13:12 > > Aan: topband@contesting.com > > Onderwerp: Topband: 160m Band opening phenomena > > > > > > Well Bob my own experience these days when working NA stations is that > the > > peak occurs at least 3 hours after Sunset and at least 3 hours before > > Sunrise. (and that is obviously not a Tropical path) > > > > Years ago there was definitely a peak both at their Sunset and our > > Sunrise, > > typically around 10dB . . . but I don't think I have noticed that for > > around > > a decade. As mentioned previously, signals seem to actually drop off > > around > > Sunrise (both ways) > > > > I obviously have no idea what has brought about this change . . . just > one > > of the many mysteries of 160m Propagation ! > > > > Roger G3YRO > > > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > -- > Dave manu...@artekmanuals.com www.ArtekManuals.com > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: I identified signal on 1.825 MHz this morning
Correction, it stopped at 7:54 EST. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Topband Gang, > > Thanks to everyone that reported reception of the signal. It stopped at > 7:54am EDT. Based on preliminary data which probably did not have enough > resolution it looked like it was originating from Ohio or Pennsylvania. > Hopefully it does not reappear. > > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 7:31 AM Don Kirk wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> Thanks and glad others are hearing it too. I just looked at it on an SDR >> receiver and it has a bandwidth of 400 Hz, and it's using two different >> frequencies spaced 200 Hz apart. Very Strong here near Indianapolis. >> Peaking 25 dB over my noise floor. >> >> Just FYI, >> Don (wd8dsb) >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 7:15 AM David Raymond >> wrote: >> >>> Signal bearing from central Iowa/EN21 is about 70 degrees based on some >>> interpolation from the 8 circle array. >>> On 12/11/2020 6:06 AM, Don Kirk wrote: >>> > I’m hearing a very strong pulsating signal that sounds like it might be >>> > some kind of digital communications and it’s bearing is approximately >>> 73 >>> > degrees from my QTH near Indianapolis and wonder if others are hearing >>> it >>> > at at what heading and does anyone recognize what it is? It’s on right >>> now >>> > at 7:06 AM >>> > >>> > Don wd8dsb >>> > _ >>> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >>> Reflector >>> _ >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >>> Reflector >>> >> _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: I identified signal on 1.825 MHz this morning
Hi Topband Gang, Thanks to everyone that reported reception of the signal. It stopped at 7:54am EDT. Based on preliminary data which probably did not have enough resolution it looked like it was originating from Ohio or Pennsylvania. Hopefully it does not reappear. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 7:31 AM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Dave, > Thanks and glad others are hearing it too. I just looked at it on an SDR > receiver and it has a bandwidth of 400 Hz, and it's using two different > frequencies spaced 200 Hz apart. Very Strong here near Indianapolis. > Peaking 25 dB over my noise floor. > > Just FYI, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 7:15 AM David Raymond > wrote: > >> Signal bearing from central Iowa/EN21 is about 70 degrees based on some >> interpolation from the 8 circle array. >> On 12/11/2020 6:06 AM, Don Kirk wrote: >> > I’m hearing a very strong pulsating signal that sounds like it might be >> > some kind of digital communications and it’s bearing is approximately 73 >> > degrees from my QTH near Indianapolis and wonder if others are hearing >> it >> > at at what heading and does anyone recognize what it is? It’s on right >> now >> > at 7:06 AM >> > >> > Don wd8dsb >> > _ >> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: I identified signal on 1.825 MHz this morning
Hi Dave, Thanks and glad others are hearing it too. I just looked at it on an SDR receiver and it has a bandwidth of 400 Hz, and it's using two different frequencies spaced 200 Hz apart. Very Strong here near Indianapolis. Peaking 25 dB over my noise floor. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 7:15 AM David Raymond wrote: > Signal bearing from central Iowa/EN21 is about 70 degrees based on some > interpolation from the 8 circle array. > On 12/11/2020 6:06 AM, Don Kirk wrote: > > I’m hearing a very strong pulsating signal that sounds like it might be > > some kind of digital communications and it’s bearing is approximately 73 > > degrees from my QTH near Indianapolis and wonder if others are hearing it > > at at what heading and does anyone recognize what it is? It’s on right > now > > at 7:06 AM > > > > Don wd8dsb > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: I identified signal on 1.825 MHz this morning
I’m hearing a very strong pulsating signal that sounds like it might be some kind of digital communications and it’s bearing is approximately 73 degrees from my QTH near Indianapolis and wonder if others are hearing it at at what heading and does anyone recognize what it is? It’s on right now at 7:06 AM Don wd8dsb _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: CQWW a bust this year
Hi Dave, I totally agree with your 160 meters condition report for CQWW this past weekend. I operated slightly less than 2 hours since conditions were so poor, and signals out of Europe were indeed very weak here in the midwest US. See you during the ARRL 160, and it should be fun as usual regardless of conditions. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 10:33 PM Artek Manuals wrote: > Conditions certainly didn't favor 160 over the weekend CQWW contest here > in Florida at least. > > Looking back in 2019 I worked 50 countries on 160 during CQWW, this year > it was only 17, only 3 Europeans and those were very weak. I'm sure the > lack of expeditions due to CV-19 played a part but on whole I think many > guys in hindsight will be glad they didn't spend the money to go. > > Maybe things will pick up next weekend for the ARRL 160 test though that > tends to be largely a USA to USA test and it is hard to hear the DX > through the local mob > > CU guys in the pile up > > Dave > NR1DX > -- > Dave manu...@artekmanuals.com www.ArtekManuals.com > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Checking the integrity of 75 ohm cable
Try to find/borrow a older Tek 1502 TDR, they are inexpensive on ebay (~$100) and show way more detail than any of the analyzers I've tried. 73 Don VE6JY On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:50 PM Michael Walker wrote: > RigExpert has a variety of Antenna Analyzers that have a built in TDRs. > > I highly recommend them. > > Mike va3mw > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:15 PM Jim Brown > wrote: > > > On 10/16/2020 1:26 PM, Gary Smith wrote: > > > What would be an easy way to tell if these > > > coax have been damaged in some way? > > > > > > I do have an old MFJ-259B > > > > That might give you a clue if the cable is open or shorted, but it's > > unlikely to show chewing that doesn't cause an open or short, but allows > > water intrusion, etc. > > > > The best tool is a vector analyzer that includes software/firmware with > > a very good TDR function. I use the VNWA3EC, built by hams in the UK > > from a design by DG8SAQ, who also does both firmware and software. > > > > https://www.sdr-kits.net/DG8SAQ-VNWA-models > > > > The TDR function in this unit is really excellent, and can be used with > > the antenna connected. The procedure is to do a very wide sweep (I > > usually sweep 50 - 500 MHz) so that fine detail shows up clearly. > > Software then does an inverse FFT on the sweep to get the TDR, and > > allows the user to choose which of five different windowing functions > > provide the clearest view of the measurement. > > > > There are ultra-cheap VNAs around, but I don't know the capabilities of > > their operating software. > > > > One way I test my RX antennas is to use them to listen on the AM BC band > > while I switch directions, using this FCC website to tell me who is > > where on each frequency. > > https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/am-query > > > > 73, Jim K9YC > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Receive ant - binocular cores
Hi Tony, Was the Binocular Core in an enclosure or out in the open? I could see ice being the cause of a shattered Binocular Core (water filling the holes and then turning to ice). Just a wild guess. Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 7:19 AM tony.kaz--- via Topband < topband@contesting.com> wrote: > I use BN-73-202 cores for my receive antennas - Pennants, BOGs. > > Finally getting time to check out my receive antennas. One BOG was very > low. > The BOG transformer was broken. I mean it was totally destroyed. The > largest > piece was 1/8" long. The primary and secondary wires, #30 were intact and > neither open or shorted. The wire looked pristine. Any ideas what could do > that to a ferrite core? Any reason I should change anything other than just > wire another transformer? > > N2TK, Tony > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: RFI
Hi Fred, Do you have a police radio scanner that covers the aviation band? If so it makes for a great 136 MHz AM receiver that can be very helpful in narrowing in on the faulty pole especially when a portable directional antenna is connected to it (especially if you can throw in 20 or 30 db of attenuation when very close to the pole). HF makes identifying the faulty pole a very difficult if not impossible task. Don wd8dsb On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 1:17 PM Fred Moeves wrote: > Thanks everyone for the help/info. > > The noise is there almost all the time the only time it stops is when it > rains. > In my video the it just stopped raining and it was just getting going > again. > I wanted to show the noise when it was not there too. > > I know one of the guys who are involved in finding the pole. > I am working on the other two guys...I do have the main guy's cell so > that's a step in the right direction. > And they do seem to care and want to solve the problem. > > Thanks Tim for the graph and the good ideas. > > Don I thought I had it down to 2 different poles but they said it was > not there. > > I have 2 portable SW radios they will not receive the noise. > But if I connect my 40m full wave loop I can hear the noise. > > So I think I have to come up with a good portable antenna maybe a small > multi turn loop. > I have Hustler RM-40 resonator. > I hooked it up stood on my upper deck but can't hear it. > > Well that's about it...73 and thanks > > Fred KB4QZH > > On 6/24/2020 7:03 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Fred, I graphed the scope trace of your noise in the video you linked, > > it is definitely 120Hz impulse noise. Attempting to attach scope > > picture. Count 12 spikes in 0.1 seconds = 120Hz. Very likely the power > > line guys can find it if they come at a time when the noise is there. > > > > Now if it's intermittent (like I hear) getting the power line noise > > experts to show up on a day when the noise is there is the magic. In > > the best world they have your phone number and call before they show > > up, and you have their phone number and can tell them if the noise is > > there for them to trace. > > > > Sometimes intermittent noises burn themselves out but more likely it > > gets worse over time and become solid 24x7. > > > > Most rigs have noise blankers that help in the face of 120Hz impulse > > noise and not-crowded bands. Noise blankers are harder to use > > effectively in thick dense signal environments like contests but > > progress has been made with advanced noise blanking techniques. There > > was a truly excellent article in NCJ by N2NC on advanced SDR > > techniques in contest situations. > > > > image.png > > > > Tim N3QE > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 6:13 PM fmoeves > <mailto:fmoe...@twc.com>> wrote: > > > > Thanks Steve. I think my power line guys need some training.. I > > wish I could use their detector for an hour or so. They keep > > telling me my area is very clean. I'll drive around some more see > > what I can hear. Thanks Fred KB4QZH > > Original message From: Steve Lawrence via Topband > > mailto:topband@contesting.com>> Date: > > 6/24/20 5:21 PM (GMT-05:00) To: fmoeves > <mailto:fmoe...@twc.com>> Cc: Top Band List List > > mailto:topband@contesting.com>> Subject: > > Re: Topband: RFI Look here. GL - Steve WB6RSESounds of RFI > > <http://www.arrl.org/sounds-of-rfi>On Jun 24, 2020, at 1:44 PM, > > fmoeves mailto:fmoe...@twc.com>> wrote:Hoping > > someone can help me identify this noise.It's on 160 80 40...most > > times stronger on 40.I called the power company..they found > > nothing.The video is just after some rain. When it rains it goes > > away. > > > https://www.riverbendphotos.com/UnlistedGalleries/Web-Photos/n-mMvp3/i-7fKDp6sThanks > > Fred KB4QZH _Searchable Archives: > > http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector_Searchable Archives: > > http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Summer Stew Perry
Hi Rick and gang, The biggest problem with the band in the summer in the Midwest USA is high QRN level from lightning. As an example during the Stew Perry contest this past weekend our noise floor during hours of darkness in Indiana was running 20 to 30 dB above our normal noise floor due to lightning which made it impossible to hear EU if you were just using simple RX antennas such as EWEs or Tuned Loops, etc. It's the high QRN level during the summer months in the Midwest US that causes most of us to disappear from 160 meter activity until the lightning subsides in Fall which is typically sometime in October. You (N6RK) as well as K7RAT had nice signals into Indiana during the Stew Perry contest, and it was great to get both of you into the log as I was only running 100 watts and using small pennant RX antennas. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 7:21 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist < rich...@karlquist.com> wrote: > > > On 6/21/2020 3:41 PM, List Mail wrote: > > I worked K7RAT (with some difficulty) and that was all. > > > > > Luke VK3HJ > > > > From California, the band was basically only active > from sunset until about 0500Z, at which point K7RAT > was the last man standing, and it didn't seem like > he had much rate. He was something like 40 dB over > S9 here! After CQing for 10 minutes without > any calls, I went QRT. Only ZL was in the dark by > then. I was too tired to stay up until VK was in > darkness. > > For the brief time when there was some activity, the > propagation to the east coast was great. A dozen or > two stations in the FM grid field were easily worked. After > the contest, I got an email from an Ohio station > saying I was the only station he heard west of the > Mississippi. So maybe I was in the spotlight. > Come to think of it, I didn't heard any east > coast stations CQ'ing. They were all responding > to my CQ. > > K7RAT to some extent made up for KV4FZ not being > there :-( He was often the last man standing in this > contest. > > Anyway, I think we have established that the band > works just fine at our Summer Solstice and we just > need more activity for this contest. Before this > contest was started a few years ago, I had the > mistaken impression that the band was dead in the summer. > > Rick N6RK > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Measure dipole on ground to get VF of BOG.
Hi Mikek, Speed of Light = Frequency x Wavelength Therefore: Speed of Light/Frequency = Wavelength Speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s (I normally just use 300,000,000 m/s) Therefore: (300,000,000m/s) / (119 Hz) = 252.10 meters But this is a full wavelength, so you have to divide 252.10 meters/2 = 126.05 meters to calculate the length of a 1/2 wave dipole on 119 Hz. But your dipole is not 126.05 meters long, it's 79.248 meters long. Therefore Velocity Factor is 79.248m/126.05m = 0.629 Hope this helps. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Mikek wrote: > I laid down 260ft of wire as a dipole on the ground, it is resonant at > 1190kHz. > I calculate this as a VF of 0.685, my calculation is actually 0.315 but > I don't think that's right, > so I subtracted from 1. Can someone post the proper formula to calculate > the VF using Resonant frequency and Length. > 260ft = 79.248 Meters Frequency is 1190kHz. > > Thanks, Mikek KF4ITA > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m CW Activity
Hi Roger, I just checked with Brad (W1NT), and he said he currently has 3 RBN receivers running, and it looks like all 3 spotted you this morning. All 3 of his receivers are located on the same property in NH. Two of them use beverages and one uses a vertical. One beverage is pointed NE and the other is pointed NNE. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 9:59 AM Roger Kennedy wrote: > Hi Don > > Yes, maybe the band was only open to the East Coast last night . . . or > perhaps I didn't actually stay on long enough for it to be dark much > further West (although I did work one station in Alabama) > > I'm not sure how you tell WHERE each RBN site is . . . > > Sure, you can tell where the MAIN station is . . . but some people have as > many as 6 RBN sites . . . presumably at different remote sites . . . so are > they all in the same State? (that seems pointless to me) > > The trouble is that if I end up staying up til 0300Z (4am local time) I > find it hard to get out of bed again a couple of hours later at our Sunrise > ! > > 73 Roger G3YRO > > -- > > Hi Roger, > > I believe your having a big 40 dB S/N report from NH on the RBN is not as > telling as what the RBN did not show for you. If you look at the last 100 > RBN spots of you last night which was from 0107 UTC until 0317 UTC you were > only picked up in the US by the RBN's in NH, and then one time by an RBN in > very eastern PA (all very close to the Ocean). You were not heard anywhere > else in the US on the RBN network during the 0107 to 0317 UTC time slot > even though the noise floor in most of the US was likely very low based on > the lack of lightning activity (only lightning I saw over the US was over > Florida). The noise floor was very low at my location in the Midwest > (Indiana). > > I was not on when you were on, but I was on slightly later from 0345 > until 0515 UTC and conditions were very poor into Europe from the Midwest > US which is why I suspect I don't see any RBN reports of you during the > above 0107 UTC to 0317 UTC time slot into any areas except the very most > Eastern part of the US (NH and Eastern PA). > > I heard EU stations ON7PQ and F6FYA when I was on slightly later than you > and they were just barely above my noise floor which was very low last > night. F6FYA peaked about 2 db above my very low noise floor and Pat ON7PQ > was always in the mud (right at my noise floor) which is unusual for him. > The only other EU station I heard was John G3PQA when he answered my CQ > right at his sunrise (I only run 100 watts), and he was right at my noise > floor when he called but peaked 1 minute later to about 4 to 6 dB (most > likely due to brief sunrise enhancement). > > I also called CQ numerous times but was not heard by any EU RBN stations, > but that's not unusual for my 100 watts. > > P.S. there was a CWT (CW ops test) from 0300 to 0400 UTC which overlaps > when you were on last night and I heard numerous stations in the US on 160 > meters taking part in the CWT and if you were not hearing many of them > that's another indication that conditions were not very good from the > Midwest US into Europe. > > Keep pounding away, and we will keep listening. > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 5:48 AM Roger Kennedy < > ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> wrote: > >> >> Yes, conditions seemed good last night (had several 35 - 40dB S/N reports >> from NA stations on RBN) >> During the night there were several EU stations calling CQ . . . but very >> few NA stations on the band ! (I know a lot of you guys over there have >> much >> lightning and resultant static crashes now) >> I did have a few QSOs . . . and a nice email from John N1PGA. >> I guess I'm still surprised there isn't MORE activity, given that we're >> all >> supposed to be staying home ! >> Hope you're all staying well in these crazy times . . . >> Best 73 >> Roger G3YRO >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m CW Activity
Hi Roger, I believe your having a big 40 dB S/N report from NH on the RBN is not as telling as what the RBN did not show for you. If you look at the last 100 RBN spots of you last night which was from 0107 UTC until 0317 UTC you were only picked up in the US by the RBN's in NH, and then one time by an RBN in very eastern PA (all very close to the Ocean). You were not heard anywhere else in the US on the RBN network during the 0107 to 0317 UTC time slot even though the noise floor in most of the US was likely very low based on the lack of lightning activity (only lightning I saw over the US was over Florida). The noise floor was very low at my location in the Midwest (Indiana). I was not on when you were on, but I was on slightly later from 0345 until 0515 UTC and conditions were very poor into Europe from the Midwest US which is why I suspect I don't see any RBN reports of you during the above 0107 UTC to 0317 UTC time slot into any areas except the very most Eastern part of the US (NH and Eastern PA). I heard EU stations ON7PQ and F6FYA when I was on slightly later than you and they were just barely above my noise floor which was very low last night. F6FYA peaked about 2 db above my very low noise floor and Pat ON7PQ was always in the mud (right at my noise floor) which is unusual for him. The only other EU station I heard was John G3PQA when he answered my CQ right at his sunrise (I only run 100 watts), and he was right at my noise floor when he called but peaked 1 minute later to about 4 to 6 dB (most likely due to brief sunrise enhancement). I also called CQ numerous times but was not heard by any EU RBN stations, but that's not unusual for my 100 watts. P.S. there was a CWT (CW ops test) from 0300 to 0400 UTC which overlaps when you were on last night and I heard numerous stations in the US on 160 meters taking part in the CWT and if you were not hearing many of them that's another indication that conditions were not very good from the Midwest US into Europe. Keep pounding away, and we will keep listening. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 5:48 AM Roger Kennedy wrote: > > Yes, conditions seemed good last night (had several 35 - 40dB S/N reports > from NA stations on RBN) > During the night there were several EU stations calling CQ . . . but very > few NA stations on the band ! (I know a lot of you guys over there have > much > lightning and resultant static crashes now) > I did have a few QSOs . . . and a nice email from John N1PGA. > I guess I'm still surprised there isn't MORE activity, given that we're all > supposed to be staying home ! > Hope you're all staying well in these crazy times . . . > Best 73 > Roger G3YRO > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Skewed polar path condx
Hi Steve, Interesting that you mentioned path distortion. I did not notice path distortion (what I was calling flutter) on the European signals I was copying this morning, but I did notice it on you and other North American signals. I mentioned this to another ham this morning as it was indeed odd sounding, and don't notice it very often. I was still using my RX antenna pointed at EU (40 degrees) to copy European stations this morning versus my RX antenna that points 160 degrees, but my receive antennas are very broad and I'm not nearly as far North or West as you. Looking at my notes, I did hear IZ2EWR calling you this morning and he was decent copy near Indianapolis (peaking 6 dB over my noise floor), but don't think you worked him. All in all very poor conditions this morning but I was able to work the usual UK stations and ON4CT which surprised me because he was right at my noise floor (I think we both only run 100 watts). 73, and always great hearing you pull stations out of the mud. Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:38 AM VE6WZ_Steve wrote: > Last night DL8LAS and SP3HLM were logged on 160m but the ONLY copy was via > a skewed path over South America, a 90 deg skew path from direct. This was > not a “subtle path skew”, but very dramatic with absolutely zero copy on > the direct NE or even east path. Not even a trace on the waterfall when RX > direct. > > I started CQ around 04:15z and V31MA called, but I really struggled to get > his prefix because I was RX via the usual EU path and assumed he was an EU > caller. Later Andy DL8LAS called, and I was switching RX when I heard him > on the SE RX. No signal at all direct path to the NE. At around 4:45 I was > able to eventually piece together SP3HLM's call. I continued to RX via > South America, but was unable to pull out any other callers. I did hear > ON7PQ call, but could not confirm. > The copy was extremely difficult because there was such very severe AU > distortion with the signals getting ripped up and garbled via the skewed > path. I knew there were other callers but it was impossible to piece > together the calls because the characters were broken up due to the path > distortion. > > With the K index at almost 3 and the solar wind at 500 km/s last night, it > was amazing that any signals were making it. > > Severe polar path skewing is not unusual, but this year the band has been > more stable with the direct path usually dominating. This is the first time > this season I have noticed it. > > This morning HL5IVL was also skewed to the south from direct path, and > Kevin VK6LW was very weak. > > Lets hope the geo-mag settles down this week. Last year my last EU was > logged on April 19th, so there is still some DX life left in the band! > > 73, de steve ve6wz > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Amazing conditions into the UK this morning.
As a follow up, the amazing conditions I experienced yesterday morning (March 29th) did not repeat today (March 30th). I just uploaded a recording on youtube showing the fantastic signal from G3XHZ on March 29th and here is a link to my brief youtube video for those interested: https://youtu.be/vZ-9cWOTlKY While watching the video keep reminding yourself that my noise floor without the static crashes from lightning is typically S0 to S1. Just FYI, and 73. Don (wd8dsb) On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 3:14 AM Don Kirk wrote: > Turned radio on this morning at 0514 UTC even though we were having very > bad lightning storms all around and was blessed with some of the strongest > signals I have ever heard on 160 meters out of the UK a little before their > sunrise. Copy was very easy right through the constant lightning crashes > that were 30 to 40 db over my normal noise floor. > > Signals from same stations were very strong for at least 30 minutes so it > was not a brief phenomenon. > > First worked G3OQT then ON7PQ then G3XHZ then G3OQT again. And then long > after I thought it was all done I easily worked Tom G3OLB at 0621 to 0624 > UTC which is 30 minutes past the QRZ reported sunrise of 0554 UTC for Tom > and still hearing him call CQ at 0635 UTC. > > John G3XHZ was peaking an honest 35 to 40 db over my normal noise floor for > a long period and Richard G3OQT was peaking 30 db over my normal noise > floor the second time I worked him to tell him how strong he still was. > > Unbelievable conditions and kick myself for not getting on sooner as it > sure was fun. > > Oh, the reverse beacon network in EU did not even pick up the 3 different > CQ’s I called during these great conditions, so don’t rely on that system > of being an indication of conditions (at least not into the UK from the > Midwest US when running 100 watts). > > 73, > Don wd8dsb > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Amazing conditions into the UK this morning.
Turned radio on this morning at 0514 UTC even though we were having very bad lightning storms all around and was blessed with some of the strongest signals I have ever heard on 160 meters out of the UK a little before their sunrise. Copy was very easy right through the constant lightning crashes that were 30 to 40 db over my normal noise floor. Signals from same stations were very strong for at least 30 minutes so it was not a brief phenomenon. First worked G3OQT then ON7PQ then G3XHZ then G3OQT again. And then long after I thought it was all done I easily worked Tom G3OLB at 0621 to 0624 UTC which is 30 minutes past the QRZ reported sunrise of 0554 UTC for Tom and still hearing him call CQ at 0635 UTC. John G3XHZ was peaking an honest 35 to 40 db over my normal noise floor for a long period and Richard G3OQT was peaking 30 db over my normal noise floor the second time I worked him to tell him how strong he still was. Unbelievable conditions and kick myself for not getting on sooner as it sure was fun. Oh, the reverse beacon network in EU did not even pick up the 3 different CQ’s I called during these great conditions, so don’t rely on that system of being an indication of conditions (at least not into the UK from the Midwest US when running 100 watts). 73, Don wd8dsb _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
Hi Roy, Numerous stations in Canada and the US are encountering the same RFI (originating from the same station near Niagara Falls). In recent years we have encountered similar RFI on 160 meters from an AM broadcast station in New Jersey as well as one in Kentucky that had spurious emissions up on 160 meters, and this looks like another classic case of that. I also have directional RX receive antennas on 160 meters that indicate the direction of the signal. The New Jersey AM broadcast station RFI mentioned above was an interesting one in that the AM station was using a very low power back up transmitter that was only running 6 watts, and its spurs on 160 meters were producing strong signals in the Midwestern states (S7 at my location near Indianapolis). Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:36 PM Roy Morgan wrote: > Is it possible that the interference is being generated not by the > transmitter but rather by bad connections in power lines or utility pole > guy wires nearer to you? > > Some driving around with a portable radio with loop stick antenna might > reveal or confirm the location of the signals. > > Hams in the past have discovered that TVI was caused not by their > transmitter but rather by their own gutters, downspouts or wire yard > fences. > > Roy Morgan > K1LKY Western Mass > > > On Mar 26, 2020, at 12:04 PM, Rick ve3mm > wrote: > > The spurious signal on 1830 khz seems to occur when > > it is windy in the area and appears to becoming more frequent. > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Last night on 160
Hi Dave, I too was shooting blind when I called CKTB this morning. I was able to leave Bonnie Heslop a Voice mail message. Bonnie is the News Director and Announcer at that station and she is the person announcing in my recording. I also sent them an e-mail with my contact info and link to my RFI video from last night. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:42 AM David Olean wrote: > > Hello 160 ops, > > I tried a telephone call to all the numbers for CKTB, but there is no way > to leave a messagee unless you know the name of someone there on the > directory list. There is no receptionist to answer the phone during the > day. I left my second e mail with contact information, but have yet to get > any response. I'll try the FCC if I do not hear from them in a day or two. > > Dave K1WHS > On 3/26/2020 2:07 PM, Don Kirk wrote: > > Hi Dave and gang, > > Here is a link to a youtube video from last nights reception of the 610 > KHz AM broadcast station in Canada that was causing RFI on 1.830 KHz. > https://youtu.be/SeL4TcnkWN8 > > I have now encountered this interference 3 nights this week, always around > 10:30 PM EDT (0230 UTC). I will also try contacting this station to file a > complaint as my recording provides enough evidence that it's indeed CKTB > (recorded the announcers name and their frequency, etc.). This station is > 413 miles from my location. > > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:44 PM David Olean wrote: > >> That is good. I will see what happens when I call them. I suspect they >> will do nothing as there is probably no engineer on staff. A VE3 ham >> told me that this station is notorious in that area! >> >> Thanks again >> >> Dave K1WHS >> On 3/26/2020 2:39 AM, Don Kirk wrote: >> >> Hi Dave, >> >> I’m copying phone station again on 1830.0 KHz and tonight the audio is >> good copy (not distorted tonight). Station advertisements are Canadian and >> they did say they are on 610. Time once again is 10:30 EDT 0230 UTC, and I >> once again recorded it. >> >> Don (wd8dsb) >> >> On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 10:33 PM Don Kirk wrote: >> >>> Hi Dave, >>> >>> I’m hearing bursts of distorted audio right now on 1830.0 KHZ (it comes >>> and goes). Bursts peak about 10db over my noise floor. >>> >>> I’m hearing it on my pennant pointing 40 degrees from near Indianapolis >>> (02:30UTC). >>> >>> Don >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 6:43 PM David Olean wrote: >>> >>>> I turned on my 160 meter radio around 0100 UT on the 21st, and was >>>> greeted by a huge level of noise on 1830. It wasn't too long before I >>>> realized that I was listening to an AM BC station. Audio was distorted, >>>> but I could copy the ads and they all referred to Buffalo and St. >>>> Catherines, Canada. They finally identified as CKTB AM 610, so I was >>>> hearing the third harmonic and it was over S9 on my west and NW >>>> beverages! It also was cutting in and out, no doubt from the high winds >>>> near Toronto. >>>> >>>> I tuned it in on my BC band aircraft receiver and the main signal on >>>> 610 kHz was loud, but being interfered with by other stations on that >>>> frequency. It was not a bodacious signal by any means, so I do not >>>> suspect a problem in my back yard. There are plenty of louder stations >>>> that I did not hear. Being a third harmonic, the signal was wide at >>>> 1830 >>>> and quite distorted. It covered 20 to 30 kHz of bandwidth. I e mailed >>>> the station but have heard nothing back. I tried calling but the >>>> offices >>>> were closed when I called last night. Did anyone else hear this? >>>> >>>> Dave K1WHS >>>> >>>> >>>> _ >>>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >>>> Reflector >>>> >>> _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Last night on 160
Hi Dave and gang, Here is a link to a youtube video from last nights reception of the 610 KHz AM broadcast station in Canada that was causing RFI on 1.830 KHz. https://youtu.be/SeL4TcnkWN8 I have now encountered this interference 3 nights this week, always around 10:30 PM EDT (0230 UTC). I will also try contacting this station to file a complaint as my recording provides enough evidence that it's indeed CKTB (recorded the announcers name and their frequency, etc.). This station is 413 miles from my location. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:44 PM David Olean wrote: > That is good. I will see what happens when I call them. I suspect they > will do nothing as there is probably no engineer on staff. A VE3 ham > told me that this station is notorious in that area! > > Thanks again > > Dave K1WHS > On 3/26/2020 2:39 AM, Don Kirk wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > I’m copying phone station again on 1830.0 KHz and tonight the audio is > good copy (not distorted tonight). Station advertisements are Canadian and > they did say they are on 610. Time once again is 10:30 EDT 0230 UTC, and I > once again recorded it. > > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 10:33 PM Don Kirk wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> >> I’m hearing bursts of distorted audio right now on 1830.0 KHZ (it comes >> and goes). Bursts peak about 10db over my noise floor. >> >> I’m hearing it on my pennant pointing 40 degrees from near Indianapolis >> (02:30UTC). >> >> Don >> >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 6:43 PM David Olean wrote: >> >>> I turned on my 160 meter radio around 0100 UT on the 21st, and was >>> greeted by a huge level of noise on 1830. It wasn't too long before I >>> realized that I was listening to an AM BC station. Audio was distorted, >>> but I could copy the ads and they all referred to Buffalo and St. >>> Catherines, Canada. They finally identified as CKTB AM 610, so I was >>> hearing the third harmonic and it was over S9 on my west and NW >>> beverages! It also was cutting in and out, no doubt from the high winds >>> near Toronto. >>> >>> I tuned it in on my BC band aircraft receiver and the main signal on >>> 610 kHz was loud, but being interfered with by other stations on that >>> frequency. It was not a bodacious signal by any means, so I do not >>> suspect a problem in my back yard. There are plenty of louder stations >>> that I did not hear. Being a third harmonic, the signal was wide at 1830 >>> and quite distorted. It covered 20 to 30 kHz of bandwidth. I e mailed >>> the station but have heard nothing back. I tried calling but the offices >>> were closed when I called last night. Did anyone else hear this? >>> >>> Dave K1WHS >>> >>> >>> _ >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >>> Reflector >>> >> _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Last night on 160
Hi Dave, I’m copying phone station again on 1830.0 KHz and tonight the audio is good copy (not distorted tonight). Station advertisements are Canadian and they did say they are on 610. Time once again is 10:30 EDT 0230 UTC, and I once again recorded it. Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 10:33 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I’m hearing bursts of distorted audio right now on 1830.0 KHZ (it comes > and goes). Bursts peak about 10db over my noise floor. > > I’m hearing it on my pennant pointing 40 degrees from near Indianapolis > (02:30UTC). > > Don > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 6:43 PM David Olean wrote: > >> I turned on my 160 meter radio around 0100 UT on the 21st, and was >> greeted by a huge level of noise on 1830. It wasn't too long before I >> realized that I was listening to an AM BC station. Audio was distorted, >> but I could copy the ads and they all referred to Buffalo and St. >> Catherines, Canada. They finally identified as CKTB AM 610, so I was >> hearing the third harmonic and it was over S9 on my west and NW >> beverages! It also was cutting in and out, no doubt from the high winds >> near Toronto. >> >> I tuned it in on my BC band aircraft receiver and the main signal on >> 610 kHz was loud, but being interfered with by other stations on that >> frequency. It was not a bodacious signal by any means, so I do not >> suspect a problem in my back yard. There are plenty of louder stations >> that I did not hear. Being a third harmonic, the signal was wide at 1830 >> and quite distorted. It covered 20 to 30 kHz of bandwidth. I e mailed >> the station but have heard nothing back. I tried calling but the offices >> were closed when I called last night. Did anyone else hear this? >> >> Dave K1WHS >> >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Last night on 160
Hi Dave, I’m hearing bursts of distorted audio right now on 1830.0 KHZ (it comes and goes). Bursts peak about 10db over my noise floor. I’m hearing it on my pennant pointing 40 degrees from near Indianapolis (02:30UTC). Don On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 6:43 PM David Olean wrote: > I turned on my 160 meter radio around 0100 UT on the 21st, and was > greeted by a huge level of noise on 1830. It wasn't too long before I > realized that I was listening to an AM BC station. Audio was distorted, > but I could copy the ads and they all referred to Buffalo and St. > Catherines, Canada. They finally identified as CKTB AM 610, so I was > hearing the third harmonic and it was over S9 on my west and NW > beverages! It also was cutting in and out, no doubt from the high winds > near Toronto. > > I tuned it in on my BC band aircraft receiver and the main signal on > 610 kHz was loud, but being interfered with by other stations on that > frequency. It was not a bodacious signal by any means, so I do not > suspect a problem in my back yard. There are plenty of louder stations > that I did not hear. Being a third harmonic, the signal was wide at 1830 > and quite distorted. It covered 20 to 30 kHz of bandwidth. I e mailed > the station but have heard nothing back. I tried calling but the offices > were closed when I called last night. Did anyone else hear this? > > Dave K1WHS > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?
For grins and giggles I ordered 10 2N5109 parts on E-bay (from Asia). Also ordered new ones from Mouser which I just received today, and also had one that I purchased a long time ago from Mouser (all of my Mouser purchased ones are marked CEN on their sides whereas the ones from Asia are identified as being Motorola (Motorola Emblem on their top). I built up a simple common emitter amplifier on a white plug in experimenter board to make simple voltage gain measurements, and the Asia parts as suspected by others do not appear to be authentic. 1) The old and new Mouser purchased 2N5109 transistors measure similar to each other (gain within 0.8 dB at 25 MHz). 2) At 0.5 MHz the Asia transistors have slightly more gain (about +0.8 dB), but at 25 MHz the Asia transistors definitely have less gain (average of -2.8 dB) 3) Plotting the gain versus frequency of the various transistors show the slope of the curves are similar between my old and new Mouser purchased 2N5109's, whereas the Asia purchased 2N5109's have a much more negative gain versus frequency slope indicating they are definitely not similar in performance. I requested a refund for the ones I purchased from Asia under the complaint that they "Do Not Appear Authentic" which is one of the choices to pick from on the E-bay refund request system and also provided my data, and the seller very quickly refunded my purchase. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Was it a plane, was it a bird, was it Luis (IV3PRK) on 160 meters CW this morning?
Wow, just about fell out of my chair with Joy when I heard Luis (IV3PRK) calling North American stations on 160 meters CW this morning. Luis had a very nice signal, and hope we continue to hear him on 160 meters CW like the old days. Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: T Top Verticals and yagis
Hi Rick, My first example is why NVIS can be useful. I often can't hear stations 150 miles away on 160 meters using my TX vertical, but they are booming in on my pennant that has a much better response to higher angle signals (I could definitely generate more points in a 160 meter contest if I had the option to switch to an NVIS TX antenna at times). We can deal with fading, phase cancellation at times, etc. in our hobby, but in the AM broadcast industry they want to preserve signal and audio quality as much as possible all of the time so it's really a different situation. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 10:26 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist < rich...@karlquist.com> wrote: > > > On 3/1/2020 6:47 PM, Don Kirk wrote: > > Hi Rick, > > > > One more comment. I believe AM broadcast stations try to avoid phase > > cancellation between skywave and ground wave, and therefore they try and > > avoid antennas that have a high angle lobe. I'm pretty sure that's why > > the AM broadcast stations that tried such things as a 5/8 wave length > > radiator determined that this caused phase cancellation problems between > > I think you have just made my argument for me. NVIS antennas don't > work for BCB stations. What is different about ham stations such > that NVIS should work on 160 meters? > > Rick N6RK > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: T Top Verticals and yagis
Hi Rick, One more comment. I believe AM broadcast stations try to avoid phase cancellation between skywave and ground wave, and therefore they try and avoid antennas that have a high angle lobe. I'm pretty sure that's why the AM broadcast stations that tried such things as a 5/8 wave length radiator determined that this caused phase cancellation problems between ground wave and skywave and abandoned radiators that were this tall. (I might have some of the exact details incorrect, but believe I have listed the general problem they ran into which caused them to rethink ground wave versus skywave and their antenna designs). Don (wd8dsb) On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 9:22 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Rick, > > I use a 68 foot base loaded vertical on 160 meters, but I also use 3 > different pennant RX antennas. Unless it's ground wave, my 160 meter TX > vertical is often deaf for stations in adjacent states that are in close to > me (say 100 to 200 miles away). Sometimes I can barely hear these stations > on my TX antenna, but when I switch to one of my pennant RX antennas they > are booming in. What's also interesting during these period of time is > that I can hear the stations pretty good regardless of what pennant I'm > using (pennant pointed 40 degrees, pennant pointed 160 degrees or pennant > pointed 270 degrees) even though my pennants have very good front to back > ratio at low elevation angles (but not at very high elevations angles), and > this is a good indication that NVIS is at play. The modeled elevation > pattern of my TX vertical compared with my RX Pennants appears to explain > this phenomena (certainly does not contradict it). Therefore during > stateside contests it sure appears I could benefit by using an NVIS TX > antenna for working these stations that are in close (adjacent states). > > I have never observed this phenomena when copying DX stations, or stations > US stations far away. > > I posted the following information on my pennant website many years ago, > and it still holds true based on massive amounts of time I spent on 160 > meters. > > -- > > *Typical skywave signal to noise improvement on 160 meters using my > pennants compared with my TX vertical* > > 0 to 1500 miles = 6 dB (and often much more for stations within 200 miles > depending on NVIS) > 2000 miles = 3 dB > 4000 miles or more = 1 to 3 dB (Note : most often 2 dB, but sometimes > only 1 dB) Revised Jan 25, 2016 > > (The above numbers are just approximations based on many hours of > comparison testing of my pennants versus my TX vertical antenna on 160 > meters.) > > > > -- > Just FYI, and 73,TX > Don (wd8dsb) > > On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 8:38 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist < > rich...@karlquist.com> wrote: > >> On 3/1/2020 5:26 PM, Mike Waters wrote: >> > However, during stateside contests such as the ARRL 160, not having some >> > NVIS would be a disadvantage. >> > >> > 73, Mike >> > W0BTU >> > >> >> How come AM broadcast stations don't need NVIS? >> >> Rick N6RK >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: T Top Verticals and yagis
Hi Rick, I use a 68 foot base loaded vertical on 160 meters, but I also use 3 different pennant RX antennas. Unless it's ground wave, my 160 meter TX vertical is often deaf for stations in adjacent states that are in close to me (say 100 to 200 miles away). Sometimes I can barely hear these stations on my TX antenna, but when I switch to one of my pennant RX antennas they are booming in. What's also interesting during these period of time is that I can hear the stations pretty good regardless of what pennant I'm using (pennant pointed 40 degrees, pennant pointed 160 degrees or pennant pointed 270 degrees) even though my pennants have very good front to back ratio at low elevation angles (but not at very high elevations angles), and this is a good indication that NVIS is at play. The modeled elevation pattern of my TX vertical compared with my RX Pennants appears to explain this phenomena (certainly does not contradict it). Therefore during stateside contests it sure appears I could benefit by using an NVIS TX antenna for working these stations that are in close (adjacent states). I have never observed this phenomena when copying DX stations, or stations US stations far away. I posted the following information on my pennant website many years ago, and it still holds true based on massive amounts of time I spent on 160 meters. -- *Typical skywave signal to noise improvement on 160 meters using my pennants compared with my TX vertical* 0 to 1500 miles = 6 dB (and often much more for stations within 200 miles depending on NVIS) 2000 miles = 3 dB 4000 miles or more = 1 to 3 dB (Note : most often 2 dB, but sometimes only 1 dB) Revised Jan 25, 2016 (The above numbers are just approximations based on many hours of comparison testing of my pennants versus my TX vertical antenna on 160 meters.) -- Just FYI, and 73,TX Don (wd8dsb) On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 8:38 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist < rich...@karlquist.com> wrote: > On 3/1/2020 5:26 PM, Mike Waters wrote: > > However, during stateside contests such as the ARRL 160, not having some > > NVIS would be a disadvantage. > > > > 73, Mike > > W0BTU > > > > How come AM broadcast stations don't need NVIS? > > Rick N6RK > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Experiences with toploaded vertical with spiderbeam pole?
Henk Don't spend 139 Euro on a piece of wire! For DXpeditions (ZL7G, ZC4A, TX6G, etc, etc) we use an 18m Spiderpole with T loading. But we take out the top section (maybe the top two, I forget) because they are not strong enough. At the base, a simple matching network, costing a few Euros (easily calculated with EZNEC or similar). Plenty of radials and great success! Don G3XTT On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 at 12:31, Henk Remijn PA5KT via Topband < topband@contesting.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for experiences with the toploaded vertical with a 18m > Spiderbeam pole. > > As described on the Spiderbeam website: > << > https://www.spiderbeam.com/product_info.php?info=p338_160m%20Wire%20Vertical%20kit%20for%2018m%20fiberglass%20pole.html=4a1073266aff30fbb590fe50e3bd792a > >> > > I have erected a 18m pole for use as 80m vertical. Looking if I can > change that to 160m as well. > > I see a lot of swing of the top of the pole. Just wondering if the > CQ-534 is strong enough to keep the antenna straight during heavy wind. > > 73 Henk PA5KT > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Strong Carrier 1828.5
Thanks guys. It just stopped at 6:57 pm EST. Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 6:55 PM Kenneth Grimm wrote: > Yes, it is about 10 over 9 in central Virginia and hearing it best to my > NE. > Ken - K4XL > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 6:42 PM Don Kirk wrote: > >> Receiving strong carrier on 1828.5 KHz that sounds like sky wave. Its >> currently peaking 30 db over my noise floor at 6:40pm EST (2340 UTC), and >> it has an approximate heading of 55 degrees from the Indianapolis area >> (Fishers IN) which puts it on a line that goes from my location through >> the >> top of Maine. >> >> Anyone else hearing it? >> >> Don (wd8dsb) >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > > > -- > Ken - K4XL > BoatAnchor Manual Archive > BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Strong Carrier 1828.5
Receiving strong carrier on 1828.5 KHz that sounds like sky wave. Its currently peaking 30 db over my noise floor at 6:40pm EST (2340 UTC), and it has an approximate heading of 55 degrees from the Indianapolis area (Fishers IN) which puts it on a line that goes from my location through the top of Maine. Anyone else hearing it? Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Wednesday 160m DX CW Activity Night
Hi Roger, It was poor conditions. Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:58 PM Peter Sundberg wrote: > The sky was all green and purple from south west to north last night > due to aurora. > > Magnetometer in KP07 swinging wildly. > > No NA stations heard (or worked) on 160m at this QTH. > > 73 > Peter SM2CEW > > > At 20:49 2019-12-19, Roger Kennedy wrote: > > >Well I spent a few hours on the band calling CQ last night, but only had a > >couple of QSOs. > > > >There were several other EU stations doing the same, and again not getting > >replies. > > > >Not sure if it was just poor conditions or lack of activity? (although my > >QSO and RBN reports were OK) > > > >73 Roger G3YRO > > > >_ > >Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Does this solar minimum seem a little more extreme than usual?
160 meters was fantastic overnight (Sunday night/Monday morning) from the Midwest USA into Europe. Signals peaking 20 to 35 db over my noise floor from big stations that normally run 6 to 12 db over my noise floor when conditions are good. It was one of those special nights that only happens a handful of times each season (if that) from my location. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 2:25 PM Richard McLachlan wrote: > Well, the band was open albeit briefly this morning from the UK to ZL. > When I used to operate in G/ZL tests in the early 60s that was thought > impossible at this time of year. I can’t speak for the intervening years > but other than at the Equinoxes there is no grey line path between the two. > > So something must be working well. > > Richard > G3OQT > > > On 16 Dec 2019, at 19:16, donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > > > > > > > We've had 92 percent spotless days since May 19th. > > > > > > The last time this happened was more than 100 years ago > > when there were 93% spotless days from Feb 28 to Oct 24, 1913 > > > > > > > books.google.com/books?id=SWdCAQAAIAAJ=PA68=PA68=daily+sunspot+number+1912=bl=p-7Rhel4dI=ACfU3U0YMpFQ0tdADTYYhiyI-qcWOWdEPQ=en=_e=X=2ahUKEwiM-s7o6rrmAhWQxVkKHbaZCHAQ6AEwCnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage=daily%20sunspot%20number%201912=false > > > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: VE6WZ at sunset in Ukraine
Hi Doug, At the very beginning of the recording you can hear part of a character then "DX K" then when you hear the first UT7NY you can hear a "CQ" underneath UT7NY and then "DX K". Then after the second UT7NY call you can clearly hear "CQ VE6WZ DX" and part of the letter "K". At least that's what I hear. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 8:22 AM Doug Renwick wrote: > Nick, > > All I hear is a strong 'UT7NY'. If you hear VE6WZ in that recording you > have > exceptional hearing. > > Doug, operating real ham radio > > > -Original Message- > From: uy0zg [mailto:uy...@mksat.net] > Sent: December-05-19 11:36 PM > To: Doug Renwick > Cc: 'Topband' > Subject: Re: Topband: VE6WZ at sunset in Ukraine > > Hi > > Doug ! > > Jokes are good for health :-)) > > > I don't have perfect hearing (I'm 62 years old), but I perfectly hear > the VE6WZ signal on the recording. > > > See you at ARRL 160 > > --- > Nick, UY0ZG > http://www.topband.in.ua > > Doug Renwick писал 2019-12-06 01:02: > > Nick, > > Let me take a guess. It had to be one of those 'make believe' inaudible > > FT8 > > contacts. Am I right? > > > > BTW I did work UR5AS with CW last evening our time. > > > > Doug, operating real ham radio. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of > > uy0zg > > Sent: December-05-19 12:35 PM > > To: Topband > > Subject: Topband: VE6WZ at sunset in Ukraine > > > > Hi > > > > Alex, UR5AS conducted the first QSO with VE / W at sunset ( December > > 4th). > > > > How was heard : > > > > http://www.topband.in.ua/2019/12/05/ve6wz-at-sunset-in-ukraine/ > > > > -- > > Nick, UY0ZG > > http://www.topband.in.ua > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Solar Cycle Fun
Steve, I was hearing some audio on a few on the Eu MW channels around 0040 ut and then saw the spot for FR4NT and checked, and was hearing bits of signal. Perhaps peaking around 0100. As usual the peak seemed to come while the amp was warming up I never called him, just too weak and too many others calling, and all simplex. 73 Don VE6JY On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 4:28 PM VE6WZ_Steve wrote: > Bob.. > Great stuff. > Cyril would be a double mult for me too. > What time did you copy FR4NT?? > > Lets hope condx can keep rolling for another few weeks at least. > > 73, de steve ve6wz > > On Nov 4, 2019, at 9:18 AM, W7RH wrote: > > > > Monthly mandatory site maintenance at my remote, you know water the > batteries, intruder check and all. I had set the damn clocks back an hour > the night before and it was sunset. Time to check out 160m band. > > > > It's not dark yet and bingo G3PQA and YL2SM in the log, not to mention I > heard Cryil FR4NT for the first time in a few years. No QSO but we tried. > He would be a double multiplier for me with country and zone! At that point > the band went south and I figured I'd take a nap as I've been plagued by a > cold. > > > > I came back a few hours later and called John SM5EDX and F5IN. In da > log. A CQ up band netted ON7PQ, SM2CEW, ON8DM, F4HEC, PE5T, and PA3FQA. Not > bad with some being new stations worked. With that back to bed. in the > morning ZF9CW and 3D2AG worked for the heck of it. All in all not a bad > haul. > > > > This is what a solar minimum should be. > > > > 73 > > > > Bob, W7RH > > > > -- > > W7RH DM35OS > > http://w7rh.net > > > > “Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and > for the same reason.” > > Anonymous > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise
Hi Bruce and gang, I don't think we should think of DXCC as a competition, but rather personal goals since everyone's station is totally different including location. Nevertheless I too believe FT8 should be a separate category, and I feel David (K3KY) has made the strongest case I have ever heard for doing this, and that's band (spectrum) preservation. The ARRL like all hams are very concerned about protecting our bands from other radio services, and making FT8 a separate category would certainly support the protection efforts (provide incentive for folks to still use CW or Phone to acquire DXCC CW or DXCC Phone awards, thus helping to keep our assigned spectrum's active as much as possible). Don Kirk (wd8dsb) On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 9:04 AM FZ Bruce wrote: > Yes the ARRL needs to step up. > > Years ago there were foot races, then after the invention of the > bicycle races between them were common. After the automobile was > invented they raced. No one seriously thought of foot racing > (competing) against a bicycle or automobile. > ARRL DXCC competition bands need sub categories. > 73 > Bruce-K1FZ > > -From: "uy0zg" > To: "Andrzej_SP6AEG" > Cc: topband@contesting.com > Sent: Thursday August 1 2019 8:53:37AM > Subject: Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise > > Hi Andy Hi All > > Absolutely simple and correct. > > Why don't ARRL leaders understand this? > > It is not possible to equate the results of a robot operator with the > > results of a human operator. > > For FT8, there should only be a separate category for DXCC. > > --- > Nick, UY0ZG > http://www.topband.in.ua [1] > > Andrzej_SP6AEG писал 2019-08-01 14:20: > > In my humble opinion, FT8 should have nothing to do with the > > competitors of > > DXCC Mix, CW, SSB or RTTY. RTTY emission was killed in short > > wavelengths, > > expeditions in the increasing percentage use FT8 as the basic > emission > > and > > this is not due to the lack of propagation. I think, the issue of > FT8 > > should > > be treated as a separate competition not included in DXCC Mix, CW, > SSB > > and > > digital. Then we can talk about competition. Otherwise, it loses > the > > value > > of DXCC from before FT8. The discussions on this list about > receiving > > antennas, the fight against QRM, etc. will end. > > > > Andy > > SP6AEG > > == > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of > > uy0zg > > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:09 PM > > To: Peter Sundberg > > Cc: daraym...@iowatelecom.net; k...@aol.com; topband@contesting.com > > Subject: Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise > > > > Hi Topbanders ! > > > > > > Everything is easy to fix. > > > > There should be a strict separation of achievements - > > > > 1. They are made only by man. > > > > 2. They are made only on the computer. > > > > > > Delete Mixed Achievement Chart : > > > > http://www.topband.in.ua [2] > > > > > > > > > > Peter Sundberg писал 2019-07-31 20:31: > >> If we CW operators would all stay on a very tight frequency > passband > >> and call CQ every 15 seconds I bet there would be a lot of > interesting > >> things happening to us also. Especially if we do it 24/7 or at > least > >> every hour that we are not asleep. > >> > >> However, PC-automation has it's advantages, some are at work while > >> working DX and others are gardening. Some even sit by the radio/PC > and > >> watch things happen :-) > >> > >> Bottom line is, we need to activate our transmitters more and not > just > >> listen for others. A perfect example is Bill KH7XS who opens up > almost > >> any seemingly "dead" band to Europe, at any time, just by calling > CQ > >> for a while. > >> > >> CW is not only great fun as you say Dave, CW is King! > >> > >> 73 > >> Peter SM2CEW > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - > Topband > > Reflector > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [4] - > Topband > > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [5] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] http://www.topband.in.ua > [2] > > http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20190731-A4.pdf#page=1=a > > http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20190731-A4.pdf#page=1=a > /> > uto,-12,848 > > > > And then FT8 (and many future FTs ) will lose popularity. > > > > Only children will play with them ... > > > > > > --- > > Nick, UY0ZG > > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > [4] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > [5] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Transmit High Pass Filters for BCB Interference
Had a similar problem at Field Day a few years ago with WJR (50,000 watt station). Noticed the problem was not present when antenna tuner was inline. Many modern rigs have broadband front ends which provide very little attenuation to out of band signals, and just the addition of an antenna tuner solved our problem (the tuner provided very good out of band filtering). Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 1:34 PM Grant Saviers wrote: > Here is what I used when I had the same problem 50kw line of sight 4 > miles 1MHz. Expensive, but worked very well. > http://herostechnology.co.uk/pages/RF_Filters.html > > Having the filter between rig and amp worked fine for me. 200w rating > for the Heros. > > My power line had ~1v of RF, so ebay Sprague 20 amp line filters were on > the shack 120v supply and 240v amp also. Plus 240-31 ferrites on the > green wires. > > It will take some proper ferrite chokes to kill the RF on the coax > shields and any other control cables. Plus a good ground system. > > IMO, Dunestars have poor reliability for their HF bandpass filters when > on DXpeditions. > > I always like to see the VNA sweep in the ad and then use my VNWA to > test whatever I buy since the tuning is hand optimized. A couple went > back for retuning. > > K9YC has some comments re BCB rejection for 6 band filter sets. That is > another alternative. > http://audiosystemsgroup.com/BandpassFilterSurvey.pdf > > Grant KZ1W > > On 7/29/2019 9:29 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote: > > A friend of mine in our local radio club sent me the following email > > > > "I'm 6/10's of a mile from an AM 910 KHz. transmitter. They operate with > 5k > > daytime and 2k at night. > > > > They're S9+45db on 160 meters with clear audio and S9+35db on 80 meters. > > have an inverted "V" resonant at 3.715 MHz. orientated east-west, towards > > their reflector tower." > > > > The station is willing to pay for a filter for my friends station, and > he > > has looked at notch and band pass filters but has concerns. > > > > I recommended he look at transmit high pass filters to knock out signals > > below 1.8 Mhz and provided him with various links: > > > > https://www.dunestar.com/store/160-Meter-Highpass-Filter-pid-8.html > > > > http://www.kf7p.com/KF7P/Morgan_Filters.html > > > > > https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/transmit-high-pass-filters/product-line/dlw-associates-am-broadcast-band-brick-wall-high-pass-filters?autoview=SKU=Default=Default > > > > I have no practical experience with any of these filters and was > wondering > > what the TB Gang thought. > > > > He would prefer one that handled 1.5 KW but I told him he may have to > > settle for 200W. > > > > He prefers an "out of the box" solution. > > > > Thanks > > > > Mark K3MSB > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Ticks
It’s toxic to cats. Keep that in mind if you have cats and let them out. KD8NNU Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 16, 2019, at 3:39 PM, tony.kaz--- via Topband > wrote: > > Gary, > Thanks for the tip on the Permethrin to get it in large containers at an > affordable price. Looks like dilution is about 1:120. One 1.25 gal should > give me one coverage. But can't be shipped to NY. Need to ship to a buddy in > NJ or PA. > > I have been spraying my entire yard twice a year with Bug-B-Gone for many > years using a mix sprayer on hoses. I had Lyme twice, the first episode > about 25 years ago before they routinely tested for Lyme. That was an > interesting year. Since I have been doing this I have not found a tick when > I drag a white towel over the yard and then inspecting with a magnifying > glass as the deer ticks are quite small. > I use Permethrin on my yard clothes and spray Deet on my open skin areas > when working in the yard. > Also, I have used traps to get rid of the mice and chipmunks as they are the > main carriers of contaminated ticks. Between the hawks and me the little > critters are gone. Way in the back I keep the weeds cut down or sprayed with > weed/grass killer. I sure don't want to get Lyme again. > N2TK, Tony > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of Gary Smith > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 3:02 PM > To: Topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Ticks > > Bruce, > > > I am 10 miles from Lyme, CT and my > property abuts a deer filled State park & marsh. After a lot of research I > found the best option for me is to spray my yard with Permethrin. Here in CT > you can't get the high concentration version but you can in 48 other states > including Maine. > > > https://www.domyown.com/permethrin-sfr-368 > -p-445.html > > > I bought it in Rhode Island and mix 1 Oz with 1 gal water & spray it with a > Scotts two gallon pump tank. It's fantastic for ants & ticks, I do the > entire lawn and when I go to my antennas, I spray the area and come back a > couple hours later and it's safe to work in. > > > I spray my outdoor clothes with the .05% mixture, let it dry so it's safe > and it kills ticks and not me. You can buy the .05% at Walmart in the > sporting goods section to spray on your clothes & I understand LL Bean sells > clothing that is impregnated with it for hikers & the like. > > > Great stuff... > > > 73, > > > Gary > KA1J > >> >> Have a Beverage antenna that goes through a dense wooded area. Two >> species of Ticks are everywherelately. Anyone have information of a >> drone that could disperse tick poison 73Bruce - K1FZ _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: V84SAA QSL
Hand delivered to me at Visalia DX convention On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 10:07 AM Peter Bacon wrote: > Anyone received their QSL card for the V84SAA operation yet? > 73 > Peter > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Voltage at top of vertical and scaling?
Hi Jim, Let me take a crack at this based on some online reading I just did, and the examples I found were based on treating the antenna as a transmission line (W8JI as well as others treat it this way). I would estimate the voltage at the tip of 1/4 wave vertical running 1500 watts to be 3437 Vrms = 4861 Vpeak. This is just an estimate using some general assumptions. Full Details: The above assumes the feedpoint impedance is 35 ohms, and that the characteristic impedance of a single wire vertical acting as a transmission line is considered to be between 400 to 650 ohms (I used the average value of 525 ohms). Using 525 ohms as the characteristic impedance of the single wire vertical transmission line, this would translate into an impedance at the tip of the 1/4 wave wire to be 7875 ohms which appears to fall into the range of expected tip of antenna impedance values stated online (easy to transform the feedpoint impedance to the tip of the antenna since we are dealing with a 1/4 wavelength but you have to take a leap of faith that the characteristic impedance of the single wire antenna acting as a transmission line is 525 ohms). If you then treat the single wire vertical as a lossless transmission line, the voltage at the tip of the antenna calculates to be 3437 Vrms (4861 Volts Peak) when running 1500 watts. The online examples I saw were lacking a lot of detail, and some included some obvious errors. Therefore I had to take the best of each example to come up with my above approximation (assuming the online examples were on the right track). I hope others will step in and correct me if they feel I have not interpreted things correctly. I'm probably sticking my neck way out on this one :) 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:38 AM Jim Miller wrote: > Is there any data on what the voltage might be at the top of a full size > 80m vertical at 1500w input? > > Is there some zener like ionization at the top that limits the voltage? > > If so is there a way to estimate the voltage at lower points along the > vertical? I assume the scaling wouldn't be linear since starting at the > bottom on 36 ohms (sorta) and going to "infinity" at the top would preclude > that. > > Thanks > > jim ab3cv > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 10 to 1 Ferrite Balun
Hi Herb, I totally agree with Jim (KR9U), wind your own since you said you have 73 material binocular cores. For my pennants and other low band RX antennas I use BN73-202 binocular cores. I would probably go with 3 turns on the primary and 10 turns on the secondary. If you have wire wrap type wire this makes winding the transformer very easy (no concern of scratching enamel coating off the wire), and it should just take you a couple of minutes to wind. Don (wd8dsb) > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: T31EU peaking at W3 sunrise
Hi Tim, T31EU was pretty strong all morning long at my QTH near Indianapolis between 0630 and 1030 UTC during the times they were running CW (averaging a solid 6 dB over my noise floor). Lots of lightning crashes from southern US but readable through it most of the time. KH7XS called CQ on their frequency after they went to FT-8 for a while, and he was booming in (running between 12 and 18 dB over my noise floor). Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 7:30 AM Tim Shoppa wrote: > Very nice peak-up this AM, two minutes before my sunrise: > http://n3qe.org/t31eu.wav > > AND one of my favorite songs as of late... about a vampire with a curious > and ultimately unhealthy obsession with staying up until the last moment > before sunrise: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuTEUUUZ4k > > Tim N3QE > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Lack of QSO's
Hi George, I thought conditions last night (Saturday night) were very good all night long on 160 meters, with signals from Europe pretty easy copy near Indianapolis at least 45 minutes before sunset. I was only going to put a few stations in the log before heading to bed around 11pm local time but wound up operating until 3am local time (0800 UTC) due to all the activity and fun on 160. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 12:05 PM GEORGE WALLNER wrote: > The bands may be quiet at times, but last night from C6AGU I had contest > runs that were more like what you experience on 20 m: 180 - 200 QSO-s per > hour peaks. No lack of QSO-s here. > > TKS and 73, > George, > AA7JV/C6AGU > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Found my K9AY by WX0B AX-AYl-4 unit
Hi Lloyd and gang, Because of the ground dependency issue, I really like pennants and flags which have no electrical connection to ground requirement. Modeling shows that pennants and flags are influenced very little by ground conductivity and height above ground (there is some dependency, but minimal in the grand scheme of things), they just want to work (granted that modeling is not 100% perfect). The single pennant or flag does not have a sharp forward peak (similar to what Tim mentioned) and therefore not exceptional RDF value but they do offer improvement in reception nonetheless (especially if you need to knock down interference that's coming from the opposite direction of your desired signal). I find that 3 pennants are adequate for targeting the major directions of DX from my location due to the lack of the sharp forward peak. I have also found that pennants and flags can be 50% the size of the traditional size and still work quite well on 160 meters when used with a 21 dB gain preamp like the W7IUV preamp (might need slightly more gain if you live in an area where the noise floor is very low). P.S. I have never found a situation where my 68 foot base loaded vertical provided better reception than my pennants on 160 meters. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 9:47 AM Lloyd - N9LB wrote: > K9AY is a local here in southern Wisconsin. > > I put up a K9AY and was disappointed in the lack of directionality at my > QTH. I spoke to Gary about it at the local Madison DX Club meeting, and he > told me that because I had very poor soil conductivity at my QTH, I should > put ground radials under the K9AY antenna to supplement the single ground > rod. Length of the supplemental radials to be at least as wide as the > loops > and at maximum no longer than double the width of the loops. Radial > placement should be in the ground directly below the loops. > > 73 > > Lloyd - N9LB > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of terry > burge > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:26 AM > To: topband@contesting.com; terry burge > Subject: Topband: Found my K9AY by WX0B AX-AYl-4 unit > > Hi folk, > > Been looking for this for I don't know how long. Had it up out in Keizer > but > wasn't that impressed but I'll now try it out here. But going to need to > get > it near some trees and possibly power company transformer on power pole. > Maybe some fencing too. Listening to K4IQJ's DX University talk about K9AY > style antennas last night on YouTube it sounds like the trees won't be an > issue. Unfortunately all I can do is try to get a half wavelength our so on > 80 and 40 from transmit antennas. Just no way to do better on my 1.5 acre > lot. > > If anyone has any helpful experience using K9AY's for a RX antenna you > might > send alone some helpful suggestions. One of the things I always wondered > about is it seems like these might be made to rotate at least a bit or > maybe > adjust the loops to favor both NE and E? K4IQJ's talk indicated it could be > interesting to try 2 or more in an array. 2 might not be too tough here but > first I want to see one work to know I can get some help on 80 and 160 > meter > bands. As usual my problem on both those bands is hearing the weak ones. > Wanting to do better this year in the 160 CQ SSB contest in late > February.(always) > > Also wondered if these can be mounted on the roof of a metal building like > my large garage? Think they need to be just above ground though. > > Terry > > KI7M > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Might be a good EU DX night
Tim, You sure called it spot on, amazing signals from Europe prior to my sunset near Indianapolis. Thanks for the heads up. 73, Don wd8dsb On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 5:22 PM wrote: > Just a few minutes after sending my post about 80 meters sigs, I am now > hearing a few EU stations now on 160, one hour before my SS here in > Arkansas. > > Hope this holds up!! > > 73 Joel W5ZN > > > On 2018-12-26 13:29, Tim Duffy wrote: > > The K3LR 160 Skimmer just heard HA0NAR at 2014Z. That is one hour and > > 45 > > minutes before sunset at K3LR. > > > > Yes, only 3 dB above the noise floor - but still - this very early in > > the > > day to hear anything from EU. > > > > > > > > Using a HIZ 8 circle in phase (500 ft separation) with a HIZ 4 square - > > broadside to Europe. RX is a Perseus SDR. > > > > > > > > You can see the K3LR Skimmer output here: > > > > > > > > http://www.reversebeacon.net/dxsd1/dxsd1.php?f=0 > > <http://www.reversebeacon.net/dxsd1/dxsd1.php?f=0=k3lr=de> > > =k3lr=de > > > > > > > > K3LR 40 meters is off line for maintenance - but will return this > > evening > > > > > > > > Happy New Year > > > > Tim K3LR > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Band Report
As a followup to my previous post about great band conditions early Monday morning, the band this morning (Tuesday) was back to its typical self if not a little worse from here in the Midwest USA. European stations peaking 25 dB above my noise floor early Monday morning were lucky to be peaking 5 dB above my noise floor this morning (which is much more the norm). I would call what we experienced Sunday night / Monday morning one of those rare special days (magic days). I sometimes notice a day each side of the magic days where propagation is a little better than normal, but this morning was not one of them here in the Midwest. What Sunday night / Monday morning shows is that you must check the band everyday or you have a great chance of missing one of those very special moments where the band is red hot. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 6:20 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Dave and Gang, > > This morning I was on from 0600 to around 0730 UTC and the band was in > great condition into Europe from the Midwest (but lots of QSB), and at the > same time I heard KH6 really pounding in strong. I typically call > conditions like this morning as one of those special days that occurs only > a handful of times a year on 160 meters. Stations like DL5AXX and SM5EDX > were at times peaking 25 to 30 dB above my noise floor, but there were lots > of smaller stations easily workable which is an indicator of very good > conditions. > > Here is a link to a recording of DL5AXX that I made this morning: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEqLKMjG7L8 > > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
