Re: Topband: AM interference on 1840
Jorge. I agree the harmonics are not acceptable. But between fishing buoys and other birdie type QRN, moving around to find a clear frequency is not new to 160M, nor ham radio in general. Its part of what we do. As soon as something channelizes – its very limited quickly. Ed N1UR From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM [mailto:cx6vm.jo...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:50 AM To: Edward Sawyer Cc: GEORGE WALLNER; TopBand List Subject: Re: Topband: AM interference on 1840 Ed FT8 can move, but 1840 still is useless to do CW, so is not a FT8 problem George said the two big problems, hope this not increase with harmonics 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W El mar., 21 may. 2019 a las 8:52, Edward Sawyer () escribió: I agree with the 2 messages. But there is a 3rd. The inability for the FT8 crowd to QSY around some interference. Interference is a fact of life. And we have QSY’s around it (even as it is being worked) for a century. Ed N1UR From: GEORGE WALLNER [mailto:aa...@atlanticbb.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 7:50 AM To: Edward Sawyer; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: AM interference on 1840 There are two messages in this topic: One is the interference from this particular BC station. Not a crisis, not yet. Two is a warning: Newly installed solid-state AM broadcast amplifiers in poorly regulated regions, over time, will have the potential to fill the entire 160 meter band with harmonics. The second part is not trivial and should be a heads-up. The earlier we find ways to deal with it, the better. 73, George, AA7JV On Tue, 21 May 2019 05:32:24 -0400 "Edward Sawyer" wrote: While the harmonic interference is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with, isn't this only "a crisis" because of the simplistic FT8 solution of bunching everyone up on a small channel? It reminds me of the old CB days when something would happen on a certain channel but no one would move because they have always had the radio on channel 2 and that's where all their buddies are. Or the 75M pig farmers that refuse to move but complain and harass on QRM that was there before their daily time started. For those of us using CW on topband, this isn't a real problem except for a contest weekend. And honestly, it will just get moved around, like the Middle East jammer on 3807. 73 Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector -- 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: AM interference on 1840
I agree with the 2 messages. But there is a 3rd. The inability for the FT8 crowd to QSY around some interference. Interference is a fact of life. And we have QSY’s around it (even as it is being worked) for a century. Ed N1UR From: GEORGE WALLNER [mailto:aa...@atlanticbb.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 7:50 AM To: Edward Sawyer; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: AM interference on 1840 There are two messages in this topic: One is the interference from this particular BC station. Not a crisis, not yet. Two is a warning: Newly installed solid-state AM broadcast amplifiers in poorly regulated regions, over time, will have the potential to fill the entire 160 meter band with harmonics. The second part is not trivial and should be a heads-up. The earlier we find ways to deal with it, the better. 73, George, AA7JV On Tue, 21 May 2019 05:32:24 -0400 "Edward Sawyer" wrote: While the harmonic interference is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with, isn't this only "a crisis" because of the simplistic FT8 solution of bunching everyone up on a small channel? It reminds me of the old CB days when something would happen on a certain channel but no one would move because they have always had the radio on channel 2 and that's where all their buddies are. Or the 75M pig farmers that refuse to move but complain and harass on QRM that was there before their daily time started. For those of us using CW on topband, this isn't a real problem except for a contest weekend. And honestly, it will just get moved around, like the Middle East jammer on 3807. 73 Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: AM interference on 1840
While the harmonic interference is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with, isn't this only "a crisis" because of the simplistic FT8 solution of bunching everyone up on a small channel? It reminds me of the old CB days when something would happen on a certain channel but no one would move because they have always had the radio on channel 2 and that's where all their buddies are. Or the 75M pig farmers that refuse to move but complain and harass on QRM that was there before their daily time started. For those of us using CW on topband, this isn't a real problem except for a contest weekend. And honestly, it will just get moved around, like the Middle East jammer on 3807. 73 Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: The DXpedition FT8 quandry
There continues to be a trend for DXpeditions to be "active on 160M" by firing up FT8. Sadly, in some cases, recently XT2 and 5T5, there appears to be no attempt to be on 160M except for FT8. A far different scenario that utilizing it because of bad band conditions. I worked 5T5 on 20, 40, 80M and they seemed to have no problem hearing in general. I am curious what topbanders are doing. Work them no matter what just to be sure you have the topband Q? Waiting to see if CW appears? Waiting for "the next one"? Personally, the counter isn't the only goal. Its also full enjoyment. And the very concept of clicking on the screen with the volume turned down and waiting for the CFM message to appear, just doesn't do it for me. I was only marginally chasing "Challenge" band countries. Always with an eye towards 160M and 80M rather than full sweep. The FT8 trend is clearly challenging that pursuit for traditional CW. Where are you coming down on this these days? Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Lack of Activity
I see a general lack of CW activity other than contests and DXpeditions actually. Not just on top band. Add to that the virtually non-existent SSB DX activity on top band, and there you have it. Quite a bit of the FT-8 activity looks to me to be non-CW ops who don't have the desire or capability to DX on SSB. Amazingly though, in contests and major DXpeditions, everyone comes out of the woodwork. So they are all there, just not there. I think for many people, the allure of "tuning the bands" and discovery has been lost. I agree with the "we need to make it happen more if its important to us". I for one don't tend to be a DX CQer. But I have started to make more of a habit of answering those I hear. Tuning by is not helping the issue. 73 Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: : V84SAA
They were quite readable here at my sunset yesterday - about 2215Z on 80M CW but were working EU. Best signal was Long Path from the SE. This morning, I had no copy on them at all on 160M but could hear what seemed like a pretty small pile of W5,6,7,0s calling. Usually the sunrise path from here is NW but LP or skew paths produced no joy. Note that I was not able to hear 9Y1YC on 80M CW this morning either. He spotted himself at a few minutes before sunrise here - 1155Z. Will keep listening. Both would have been new zones for me. Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: JA's came in droves today on 160
Hi Jay. The IP address is actually tied to your device and is picked up and identified on the internet. My point was that the machine deserves the credit for the DXCC. That’s all. I would totally agree with you that if all this was about was RTTY morphing to FT8 then its not very different. However, FT8 is pulling on other modes clearly based on this dialog. At the end of the day, some people care whether they are part of the action, and some people don’t. Those of us that do seem to have a pretty universal distaste for FT-8. 73 Ed N1UR From: jayb1...@optonline.net [mailto:jayb1...@optonline.net] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 2:35 PM To: Edward Sawyer; 'Herbert Schoenbohm' Cc: 'TopBand List' Subject: Re: Topband: JA's came in droves today on 160 Ed – the “IP address” and the internet have nothing to do with the FT8 mode other than that’s how you initially download the WSJT-X program...so why is the transition from RTTY to FT8 any different than the transition from AM to SSB again ? jay ny2ny _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: JA's came in droves today on 160
To each his own Herb. Nothing against you. But last I checked – AM morphing to SSB never eliminated the person with the voice and the ears. It just made what was happening more efficient. If the only affect here was RTTY going down the toilet because of FT-8, I agree with you. But when ultimately – its computer to computer, the IP address should get the DXCC award no? Ed N1UR From: Herbert Schoenbohm [mailto:herbert.schoenb...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 2:02 PM To: Edward Sawyer Cc: TopBand List Subject: Re: Topband: JA's came in droves today on 160 Exactly Ed, Just as SSB did to AM and digital modes are doing to RTTY. Soon it may be computers working computers with minimal operator supervision. Right now on FT-8 when statins call my CQ they are answered and sent a signal report automatically and the logging is done with a single point and click. CW Maybe Kim will allow a fully automated FT-8 application running 24/7 on the 800-foot high rise building on downtown Pyongyang. Still, CW, depending on the operator, seems to have the advantage. Except during a contest, most of the 160-meter DX has moved to 1840 and more will follow assuredly. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 2:28 PM Edward Sawyer wrote: Such is the new trend. No offense to KV4FZ whatsoever but if you provide the easy path.most will take it. The only way to affect the "easy way out" is to not provide it. I remember year's ago doing CQ WW CW ABLP as C6ARS in 2001. I ended the contest on 15M running a couple of hundred JAs. I thought, this is amazing because I am just as loud from W1 and I couldn't imagine having so many JA stations call. Clearly they are much more DXers than full contesters - most of them. Still feel that way today. I have heard piles of JAs calling right before a contest only to dry up in the contest. Its fascinating that the above has now shifted to FT8 vs the more traditional modes in just DXing. Herb, it would be a very interesting experiment to shift to CW mid pile-up and see if the group stays with you to catch the DX opening or does it dwindle to nothing. I am guessing it goes to nothing despite the opening. But would love to hear. FT8 is changing the "easiness factor" in DXing. And like technology assisted driving, once that genie is out of the bottle it ain't never goin back. Just try and find an actual stick shift in a new car - almost impossible. Why? It doesn't mesh with the computer driving the car. 73 Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: JA's came in droves today on 160
Such is the new trend. No offense to KV4FZ whatsoever but if you provide the easy path.most will take it. The only way to affect the "easy way out" is to not provide it. I remember year's ago doing CQ WW CW ABLP as C6ARS in 2001. I ended the contest on 15M running a couple of hundred JAs. I thought, this is amazing because I am just as loud from W1 and I couldn't imagine having so many JA stations call. Clearly they are much more DXers than full contesters - most of them. Still feel that way today. I have heard piles of JAs calling right before a contest only to dry up in the contest. Its fascinating that the above has now shifted to FT8 vs the more traditional modes in just DXing. Herb, it would be a very interesting experiment to shift to CW mid pile-up and see if the group stays with you to catch the DX opening or does it dwindle to nothing. I am guessing it goes to nothing despite the opening. But would love to hear. FT8 is changing the "easiness factor" in DXing. And like technology assisted driving, once that genie is out of the bottle it ain't never goin back. Just try and find an actual stick shift in a new car - almost impossible. Why? It doesn't mesh with the computer driving the car. 73 Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Impedance of inv l?
I am not sure where you are getting your information that cutting the losses in your 160 vertical from 60 - 37 Ohms will have no difference in performance - technically or noticeably but its not correct. Reducing ground losses is THE ISSUE on 160M. Calling a 1.2:1 SWR great and not realizing what is being traded to get there, it really lacking of the right solution. A 160M antenna should have the lowest possible losses for the site and then the resulting SWR matched or tolerated. Not the other way around. 73 Ed N1UR "Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 11:41:12 -0500 From: To: , , "Topband" Subject: Re: Topband: Impedance of inv l? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;charset="UTF-8" Theoretical impedance for a perfect 1/4 wave ground plane is 37 ohms. 60 ohms is great; 1.2:1 VSWR ? leave it alone, you will never notice any difference if you try to improve it. It will change with rain, snow, etc anyhow..73 Jay ny2ny" _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Working LP from VK6 to the USA - season approaches
Steve, From here in Vermont, the Long Path has been the only 2 Qs ever had to VK6 on 160M. Once with 200W in 2008 and once last year with 1.5kW. Thanks for your efforts in this. Much appreciated. 73 Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: lack of 160 activity
In my case, I don't really get going on 160M until the beginning of November. My October is usually getting ready for CQ WW SSB and then Nov - Feb is basically CW season for me which includes getting on 160M DXing. I respect VY2ZM's comments on FT8 but you will never find me stooping to that level just to make a Q. Its easier if both stations use remote receiving stations nearby the DX too, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. I prefer to be the one hearing and working the DX.not my computer. No offense to my computer. 73 Ed N1UR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Gamma match success
I usually use the complex impedance as my guide here. What is the resistive component vs the model? If the SWR is flat it is often because the resistive ( R ) portion is too high and dominating the frequency dependence of the X portion. Adding radials can improve that as well as the loss of the match itself. A model of the ideal complex impedance vs ideal ground and lossless match components compared to what you are actually reading will help point you in the right direction. My 70 ft T top Verticals with 45 1 / 4 wave radials, have a resistive component that matches with the model if I make the ground less than average - which is in fact the case here in Central Vermont. Modeling suggests that adding another 20 radials is not going to add much to that equation so I stopped there. I use choke baluns at the feed (bottom) to minimize any coax radiation and adjusted the SWR based on the length of the wires only (keeping the T portion symmetric). The individual Ts have about a 60khz 2:1 bandwidth vs an ideal of about 35 khz. But its all modelable ground losses. I phase 2 of them for end fire to EU and some other interesting patterns depending on phase relationship. The phasing clearly affects the SWR. Ed N1UR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage F/B using oscillator
As a point of reference - I have 4 terminated beverages from 200 - 350m long (also 2 unterminated bererages). I use them on 40 - 160M. I typically see 10 - 25dB of front to back on these beverages. On 40M and 80M, while contesting, if I am not careful to first listen on the transmit antenna before CQing, I can be on top of a US station that I can't hear because of using the EU terminated beverage. 4db does not seem like a good result for a terminated beverage. I can't speak to BOGs as I have not used them. 73 Ed N1UR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
