Re: Topband: CQ Zones

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Yes I have been on FT8. I simply do not enjoy FT8. I was first licensed in 1959 
and am basically a CW OPERATOR. 

I well remember when AM operators bashed the SSB operators.

73,

John, W4NU 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Lloyd - N9LB  wrote:
> 
> Will someone please start an "I Hate FT8" group and move all this 
> unproductive chatter off of the Top Band reflector. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+lloydberg=tds@contesting.com] On 
> Behalf Of ok1tn 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 10:05 AM
> To: Chortek, Robert L. 
> Cc: topband@contesting.com; Joe Subich, W4TV 
> Subject: Re: Topband: CQ Zones
> 
> FT4 FT8 is just a computer game. It's not a ham radio OK1TN
> --
> 73 Slavek Zeler
> 
> 
> -- Původní e-mail --
> Od: Chortek, Robert L. 
> Komu: Joe Subich, W4TV 
> Datum: 9. 3. 2021 16:31:21
> Předmět: Re: Topband: CQ Zones 
> "THANK YOU JOE! That pretty much captures the debate. 
> 
> 73, 
> 
> Bob/AA6VB 
> Robert L. Chortek 
> 
>> On Mar 9, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote: 
>> 
>> [External Email] 
>> 
>> Oh PLEASE! You sound just like AM phone operators when SSB came 
>> along. And spark operators when CW started to replace it. 
>> 
>> The first DX was nothing more than single letters ... 
>> 
>> 73, 
>> 
>> ... Joe, W4TV 
>> 
>> 
 On 2021-03-09 10:10 AM, Karel Matousek wrote: 
>>> I agree wit Martin OK1RR. 
>>> 
>>> I cannot endorse FT4, FT8 for the ARRL DXCC Program. 
>>> 
>>> IMHO, this should NEVER be allowed unless qualified in a separate rules 
>>> category! 
>>> 
>>> Karel OK1CF 
>>> __ 
 Od: "Martin Kratoska"  
 Komu: topband@contesting.com 
 Datum: 09.03.2021 15:37 
 Předmět: Re: Topband: CQ Zones 
 
>>> Oh, FT8 should be proclaimed as illegal for DXCC (WAZ, WAS etc.) in 
>>> mixed categories. 
>>> This "mode" should be counted completely separated from traditional 
>>> modes like CW or SSB. 
>>> 
>>> 73, 
>>> Martin, OK1RR 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dne 09. 03. 21 v 15:16 Ian Fugler napsal(a): 
 Hi, Dave 
 
 Zone 23 - JT5DX will be your man. He is active in contests and puts 
>>> out a good signal. 
 
 Zone 24 - will be more of a challenge. I have worked XX9D and a 
>>> couple of BY stations. But you may need to use FT8 for the BY stations, 
>>> since they seem strongly to prefer that mode. 
 
 73 and GL! 
 
 Ian G4iiY 
 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Topband: Broad band antenna approach for 160 Contesting

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have been using a shunt fed 45G tower for many years with around 50 radials. 
It is top loaded with a mono stack from 80 to 10 meters. It works extremely 
well on 160 using an Omega match. There is a 1000 pfd vacuum variable in series 
with a motor driven 1000 pfd vacuum variable to ground. The motor is a 
reversible 1 RPM, 12 VDC motor that is tuned remotely from the shack. The SWR 
is always 1.3/1 or better. The tower is 100 feet high. I can usually work 
anything I can hear.

The receiving antennas are a Hi-Z 8, Hi-Z 2, NW BOG, and a Waller FLAG on a 40 
ft boom at 93 feet. The FLAG shines on the long path.

73,

John, W4NU 
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)
Atlanta

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Grant Saviers  wrote:
> 
> The nice thing about switched serial caps (if same values) for tuning 
> upwards from a low resonance is the voltages are all the same. Plus caps and 
> appropriate relays are cheap, easy, and small.
> 
> Rick, I think you might have suggested this to me, and my implementation was 
> published in QEX May/June 2019.
> 
> Grant KZ1W
> 
>> On 2/28/2021 07:10, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>> On 2/27/2021 2:23 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:
>>> Rick et all
>>> 
>> he feed, The taps are relay selected .  Taps selected for a dip
>>> at 1816, 1840 , 1860, 1880, 1900 and 1920. SWR 1.3:1 from 1.8 to 19.5 which 
>>> the my KPA1500 and Alpha 9500 both love.
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> NR1DX
>>> manu...@artekmanuals.com
>>> 
>> Thanks for posting this suggestion.  Perfectly reasonable design.
>> I use an alternative design using switched mica capacitors.
>> I also use a 2.25:1 matching transformer, but the "windings"
>> are implemented using coax.  Not sure if Sevick does this.
>> 73
>> Rick N6RK
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Re: Topband: Usable size of Flag antenna and FSM

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Great information JC! I finally got my Hi-Z 8 up and running again after many 
problems. It was and still is a great antenna for RX. I am now using the 
upgraded preamp at the output of the array as designed by K7TJR.

In addition I have one of your Waller Flags on a 40 foot boom at about 95 feet. 
It was pulled down last weekend so a new TIC Ring Rotor could be installed in 
place of the old one. Two broken fiberglass loops have been replaced. It goes 
back up tomorrow, 27 February. I think this one was #2 or #3 as I recall. Your 
40 dB pre-amp really works great. It’s amazing what you can hear when 
polarization is horizontal. It also excels on the Long Path.

73,  

John, W4NU 
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 26, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Don Kirk  wrote:
> 
> Hi JC,
> 
> Thanks for posting all the great info.
> 
> In my article I mentioned I normally use 20 dB of gain with my portable
> flag, but on 80 and 160 I sometimes use more gain.  I just double checked,
> and sure enough I really do need more than 20 dB of gain on 160 meters when
> using my DX-440 receiver on weaker signals  I just did a rough test on my
> DX-440, and it's sensitivity at 1.8 MHz is considerably lower than it is at
> 4 MHz as an example.  I can just start hearing signals at 1.8 MHz that are
> around -120 dBm (at 4 MHz it's more like -137 dBm), and I think this
> explains why more than 20 dB is useful in my application down on 160
> meters.  If we assume a 500 Hz wide filter, and thermal noise temperature
> of 300 deg K, then I believe the thermal noise generates a -146.84 dBm
> signal to the receivers input.  If we then amplify that signal by 20 dB we
> wind up at -126.84 dBm which is still a little below the level I can detect
> with my receiver at 1.8 MHz.  Tom W8JI mentioned a long time ago that more
> than 20 dB should not be normally required with negative gain antennas
> unless the receivers sensitivity is low, and that appears to be the case in
> my situation (he actually said "40 dB gain in front of a receiver is pure
> fantasy, unless the receiver is dead as a door nail".  Therefore having 30
> dB of gain does indeed come in handy in my application whereas it should
> not be necessary if I were using a receiver with better sensitivity (unless
> I'm looking at this all wrong).  I'm glad I have the available extra gain
> that the DX Engineering preamp offers whereas most receivers would not
> benefit from it.
> 
> I hope this makes sense to everyone.
> 
> 73,
> Don (wd8dsb)
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:58 PM  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to share some of my experience with small flags'.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The directivity is the same for a large chance in frequency but the gain
>> increase with size.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As a reference NX4D started with a single flag  14' high 7' wide , using a
>> 20 db gain preamp. Is was good enough to work 150
>> 
>> countries on 160m, for 80m you can reduce the size by 1/2  and expect the
>> same results. Basically it is a flag like k9AY, EWE, pennant and others
>> 
>> loaded loop, one resistor and one transformer.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The RDF is a limitation and Doug phased two loops 14x7 spaced 16ft for a
>> 
>> total boom of 30FT. all fiberglass, and an isolated mast from the tower
>> and,
>> 
>> not portable, I called small Waller Flag. The two 14x7 flag was good
>> enough
>> 
>> to work over 200 countries from a 1/5 acre lot in a subdivision with  a
>> lot of
>> 
>> noise form neighbors. Detuning the TX antenna was a must for good
>> 
>> performance, including working JT1CO direct path over the North pole on
>> 
>> 160m.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> But the gain of the antenna was a limitation on 160m, and he built a
>> Monster
>> 
>> WF to work 311 DXCC on 160.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2 db NF and 20 db gain is all you need for a vertical  flag or dual flag
>> like the WF(Waller Flag, from Doug Waller, NX4D)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 33db gain is too much for a flag or WF vertical, it is good for a flag or
>> a
>> 
>> WF horizontal, and at least 75 ft above ground.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Here is important to remember if you S meter is moving you have too much
>> 
>> gain, I match my preamp gain for s0 on band noise during the day. There is
>> a
>> 
>> lot of signals bellow S0. Keep the gain at minimum.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To reduce common mode noise a twisted pair 100ohms feed like helps  a lot.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Measure noise figure at 1.8 MHz is a great task and care, with a good
>> signal
>> 
>> generator and good sound card, you can take one measure in 2 hours of work
>> 
>> for -+ 0.1 db accuracy.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Doug me and Dr Dallas did a long experiment to measure that and a small
>> flag
>> 
>> 14'x7', was not thermal noise limited for DX use on low babnds.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> At a very quiet rural area with -125 dbm noise floor during the day. For
>> 
>> reference , my city lot average -85 dbm during the day and the best I ever
>> 
>> measured was -95db on those winter Sunday Mornings with light rain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: Topband: Low Dipoles

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I am all for multiple receiving antennas for 160..

I have:

1) Hi-Z 8 down by the creek.

2) Hi-Z 2 up on the hill.

3) BOG to NW going down the hill.

4) Waller FLAG on 40 foot boon (2 loops) at 95 feet on a TIC Ring Rotor.

    The Waller FLAG appears to outperform all of the others (especially 
when the polarization is horizontal).


    It works well on the long path. It was #2 from N4IS. 100 ohm 
Twin-Ax to tower base. Then 100 ohm to 50 ohm transformer


    with Times Microwave LMR-600 to shack.

73,

John, W4NU


On 12/14/2020 8:31 AM, Bill Tippett wrote:

W3LPL wrote:
"I've never found them to be more effective receiving antennas than Beverages
or arrays of short verticals at sunset or at any time during the night"

I have a inverted-V with apex at 100' and ends at 30' that I specifically
put up for high angle conditions.  I also have a quasi-4SQ Tx antenna about
300' away.  The Eznec plot below shows the breakeven TOA is around 45
degrees.  I usually see +10 dB in favor of the 4SQ which you can see on the
plot happens at TOAs below 15 degrees.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM_OgfeUmNPr7fPJL2YApvxE5HaQbajJDfYlD-M


Most (>99%) of the time what Frank says is true.  However there are rare
occasions when the inv-V is stronger than the 4SQ indicating high angles.
Normally I receive on Beverages and TX on the 4SQ but the tipoff to check
for high angles is when Beverages lose directivity.  When this happens it
indicates high angles, so I then switch to both TX/RX on the inv-V.  For me
this most often occurs just after sunset and only lasts 30 minutes or so.
However in contests I've had significant runs of deep z16 and even deeper
stations which have significantly added to my points and mult totals.
Sunrise also shows peaks but not as pronounced as sunset.  High angles can
also occur during significant solar events but this is more rare than at
sunset/sunrise.

"You can never have too many antennas!"

73,  Bill  W4ZV
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Re: Topband: Shunt Fed Tower SWR Troubles

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I am wondering if the air variable is flashing over. I am willing to bet that a 
vacuum variable would correct the problem. I use two (2) Vacuum variables in an 
Omega match.

73,

John, W4NU






Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:38 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dale,
> 
> The RF voltage is always looking at the far end (stuff on the end away from
> the tower base) to jump onto.
> 
> *** Provide a deliberate, designed, long-term weather survivable metallic
> path to the boom of the highest yagi and provide a low R path from the
> boom to BOTH sides of at least one element at either END of the boom. This
> will drastically reduce current via unintended paths.
> 
> You will have to retune the match.
> 
> This is much easier for a parasitic element, where the center of an
> insulated element can be just strapped to the boom. But you should also
> replace the balun. It will remain a source of RF loss, even if it doesn't
> change value or burn up.
> 
> RF current heating of a "balun" comes about because an engineer is only
> designing the balun for the performance at 40 or 20 meters. The R of such
> a device on 1.8 MHz can be quite low. I have measured one that worked FB on
> a tribander that was only 173 ohms on 160. That will get very hot at power
> and its effect on the tuning at the tower base can be enormous. And it is a
> guaranteed source of RF loss that throws away dB's of your amp's power. RF
> heating of a ferrite device gets to a point where the R characteristics
> suddenly fall off the table. 80 meters likely just doesn't quite get to
> that temperature because the R of the balun is higher on 80m
> 
> You still may need to change that device for something with good stiff R
> at 160, so it will not heat up and change. The 160 RF will still try to go
> there. It just needs to be solidly blocked. See the Balun Designs 1116dx (x
> is one of 6 or 7 hardware configurations, same innards). Or go to K9YC's
> web site to make your own. Jim has some recent designs, excellent R for
> 160 based on a new monster #31 ferrite core & RG400.
> 
> Good luck, 73, and stay safe from that virus,
> 
> Guy K2AV
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 1:06 PM Dale Drake  wrote:
>> 
>> Here's my problem. I'm experiencing SWR problems
>> with 160M shunt feed on my tower.  Using a gamma
>> match with HV air variable caps I am able adjust
>> the tap point to get a very nice SWR curve using
>> my AA-35 Zoom analyzer.  The problem I having is
>> that when transmitting the SWR goes up with power
>> and if I key-down for very long the SWR rises
>> rapidly and takes off.
>> 
>> My set up is 70ft Rohn 25 with about 22 feet of
>> mast above the top of the tower.  At the top of
>> the mast is a Diamond 2M/440 vertical.  At 15 feet
>> above the tower top is an XM-240 and 2 feet above
>> the tower top is a 4el SteppIR.  The elements of
>> the SteppIR are fully retracted.  All of the coax
>> and control lines are run from ground level inside
>> the tower up to the service loop. On the mast
>> above the tower the coax is tywrapped to the mast.
>> There are 60 ground radials with an average length
>> of 90ft.  The reflector of the XM-240 is insulated
>> from the boom and the driven element is fed
>> through a Comtek 1:1 balun. All of the coax
>> shields are grounded at the tower base.
>> 
>> I have an 80M gamma matched shunt on this tower
>> that plays FB with no weird SWR stuff going on.
>> 
>> I suspect that what is causing my 160M trouble is
>> that RF is coupling through the 40M coax, through
>> the balun and into the driven element. Somehow the
>> coupling changes with power, which I don't
>> understand.  I suspect that when I key-down and
>> the SWR takes off, the core in the balun is
>> getting hot and the magnetic properties are
>> shifting until it cools off and returns to normal.
>> 
>> My plan to try to correct this problem is to
>> connect the center of the XM-240 reflector to the
>> boom and to mount a box at the XM-240 feed point
>> with 2 vacuum relays that I will use to connect
>> the driven element to the boom when I'm on160.
>> This will be a considerable effort and expense so
>> I'm looking for the group's input as to the
>> soundness of my plan or if there may be other
>> approaches that would be less difficult to try
>> first.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Dale, AA1QD
>> 
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Re: Topband: Rotator Potentiometer shunt fed twr

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have never had any problems with multiple rotors on my 100 ft shunt fed 45G 
tower. I have had Ham IV’s, Tail Twisters, an M2 2800, and now a prop pitch 
from K7NV. I run full power on 160 and always have. 

73,

John, W4NU

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 25, 2020, at 11:04 AM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> Andy, I had two Yeasu rotators on my shunt-fed tower, one at 62 feet and one 
> at 97 feet, for about 15 years and never had trouble, although I was just 
> running 100 watts on 160
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 8/24/2020 6:27 PM, Roy Morgan wrote:
>> Contact Norm's Rotor Service for advice.
>> 
>> Normsrotorservice.com
>> 
>> Roy Morgan
>> K1LKY Western Mass
>> 
 On Aug 23, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Andree DL8LAS via Topband 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hey,
>>> 
>>> how can I protect my rotator from HF in the shunt fed tower , so that the 
>>> poti or other electric doesn't burn in the rotator?
>>> 
>>> 73 Andy DL8LAS
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Topband: Rohn 25 Vertical questions.

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I use a Rohn 45G 100 ft tower. It is shunt fed for 160 with an Omega 
match using two 1000 pfd vacuum variables. It does wrk great on 160 
using around 50 radials. One of the vacuum variables has a 1 rpm 12 VDC 
reversible motor. The SWR stays very low.


The monoband stack for 80 - 10 provides a lot of top loading..

I don't think you will go wrong Ron...

73,

Joihn, W4NU

(K4JAG 1959 to 1998)

On 8/18/2020 2:06 PM, Ron WV4P wrote:

Howdy All,

I'm getting ready to put up a Rohn 25 Insulated Base ~1/4 wave vertical.
(115') and I'd like to get some advice if possible.

I'm using guy brackets. Any reason to use Insulators between the Big Grips
/ Phillystran and the brackets like is recommended on higher bands ?

Any preferred goo or concoction to put on the tower sections before joining
them ? Or nothing ?

Any other advice on the tower / radiator itself from folks that have BTDT ?

My plan is 115' and I'm using a Rocket Top at the top. Without any mast I
will have my 115' but I plan to insert a mast into the rocket top (8') and
have it Inside the tower, not extended above the top. I figure if it
resonates too high I have 8' to play with up top.

Thanks, Ron, WV4P
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Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well

[John Harden]

  
  
  

Good evening Frank. Just got in from work. I was talking mainly about 
160. Before 2019 I was a true alligator!
73,
John, W4NU



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On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:54 PM -0400,  wrote:










Hi John, 


250 feet isn't a short Beverage on 80 meters, it should perform 
superbly. In my -- now long ago -- professional life we built and 
operated phased arrays of up to 64 Beverages all the way up to 
30 MHz, feeding SDRs, and they worked superbly. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 




- Original Message -

From: "John Harden, D.M.D."  
To: topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 8:05:56 PM 
Subject: Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding 
very well 

I have never had any luck with short beverages, EWE's, FLAGS, low 
dipoles, etc. Total waste of time. 

In 2010 I went to the Hi-Z 3, then the Hi-Z 4, and finally the Hi-Z 8. I 
hear stuff I have never heard before.. 

Since then I added a Waller FLAG on a 34 ft boom at 95 feet... 

Best moves I ever made.. 

73, 

John, W4NU 

On 6/30/2020 3:04 PM, Brad Rehm wrote: 
> Mark, 
> 
> I didn't see any mention of a preamp. Signals from a good Beverage are 
> typically 20-30 dB below what you'd hear from a dipole or a vertical. 
> Everything else you've done looks good. Keep it up! 
> 
> 73, 
> Brad KV5V 
> Salado, Texas 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:57 PM Mark Lunday  wrote: 
> 
>> "Beverages just want to work" is what I have heard. 
>> 
>> Not having much luck with that here. I suspect operator/installation 
>> error. 
>> 
>> I did a lot of reading and I must be doing something wrong. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> * 250 feet of insulated wire strung out in 030 degrees direction 
>> toward EU, pretty straight, varying in height from 4 to 6 feet, running 
>> through thick brush with no metal objects or artificial elements along the 
>> run. 
>> * 9:1 transformer at feed point with ground rod 
>> * 300 feet of coax, mix of RG-8, MMR-400 to get to the edge of the 
>> woods from the house 
>> * No terminating resistor 
>> 
>> On bands 160-40, the signals are very weak. I am monitoring WSPR, FT8. I 
>> can hear signals on 160-40 but they are way down compared to dipoles and 
>> inverted L on the same bands. Like 20-30 db down. From what I read, I 
>> should NOT need an HF pre-amplifier, right? 
>> 
>> Signals on 30 and 20 seem to be better and I can copy some DX from EU on 
>> FT8. 
>> 
>> I will try installing a new ground rod, the old one is 10 years old and 
>> perhaps not making a good ground connection at the feedpoint. The 
>> transformer is brand new, so that's not an issue. The coax has tested out 
>> fine. Soil is central North Carolina clay, a bit dry at this time. 
>> 
>> I am guessing performance is poor on 160-40 because of the short length 
>> and that it's bi-directional (no terminating resistor), which I am seeing 
>> on 30 meters. But I did not think it would be THIS bad on 160-40 
>> 
>> Mark Lunday, WD4ELG 
>> Greensboro, NC FM06be 
>> wd4...@arrl.net 
>> http://wd4elg.blogspot.com 
>> SKCC #16439 FISTS #17972 QRP ARCI #16497 
>> 
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Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have never had any luck with short beverages, EWE's, FLAGS, low 
dipoles, etc. Total waste of time.


In 2010 I went to the Hi-Z 3, then the Hi-Z 4, and finally the Hi-Z 8. I 
hear stuff I have never heard before..


Since then I added a Waller FLAG on a 34 ft boom at 95 feet...

Best moves I ever made..

73,

John, W4NU

On 6/30/2020 3:04 PM, Brad Rehm wrote:

Mark,

I didn't see any mention of a preamp.  Signals from a good Beverage are
typically 20-30 dB below what you'd hear from a dipole or a vertical.
Everything else you've done looks good.  Keep it up!

73,
Brad  KV5V
Salado, Texas

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:57 PM Mark Lunday  wrote:


"Beverages just want to work" is what I have heard.

Not having much luck with that here.  I suspect operator/installation
error.

I did a lot of reading and I must be doing something wrong.



   *   250 feet of insulated wire strung out in 030 degrees direction
toward EU, pretty straight, varying in height from 4 to 6 feet, running
through thick brush with no metal objects or artificial elements along the
run.
   *   9:1 transformer at feed point with ground rod
   *   300 feet of coax, mix of RG-8, MMR-400 to get to the edge of the
woods from the house
   *   No terminating resistor

On bands 160-40, the signals are very weak. I am monitoring WSPR, FT8.   I
can hear signals on 160-40 but they are way down compared to dipoles and
inverted L on the same bands. Like 20-30 db down. From what I read, I
should NOT need an HF pre-amplifier, right?

Signals on 30 and 20 seem to be better and I can copy some DX from EU on
FT8.

I will try installing a new ground rod, the old one is 10 years old and
perhaps not making a good ground connection at the feedpoint.   The
transformer is brand new, so that's not an issue.  The coax has tested out
fine.  Soil is central North Carolina clay, a bit dry at this time.

I am guessing performance is poor on 160-40 because of the short length
and that it's bi-directional (no terminating resistor), which I am seeing
on 30 meters. But I did not think it would be THIS bad on 160-40

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Re: Topband: Sloping Ground

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I had a 160 meter inverted V up at 90 for a number of years. Sometimes it 
worked but overall it was useless. I took it down years ago. 

Now, I use a Hi-Z 8 and Waller Flag at 95 feet for receive and a 100 ft shunt 
fed tower for XMIT.
It is all light years ahead of the Inverted V...




Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2020, at 10:18 AM, cqtestk4xs--- via Topband 
>  wrote:
> 
> My place in Hawaii was sloped more than about 99% of all locations...a drop 
> of 1100 feet to sea level around 6000 feet away.  It does make a difference.  
> I had the same slope up hill as down and i can tell you 100% for sure the 
> slope makes a difference.  I used a bent full size vertical wire  for 160 and 
> downhiull was far better. It would be worth the extra coax if you had a 
> pretty significant slope.
> 
> Bill K4XS/KH7XS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Josuweit 
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2020 1:53 pm
> Subject: Topband: Sloping Ground
> 
> Looking for some advice from some of you who have been there and done that
> before. I'm looking at moving my 160M inverted L to a new location that
> would be approximately 100 feet ASL higher and be on top of a hill with
> nearly perfect sloping ground in all directions. This would change my coax
> run length from 130 feet to 620 feet. I'm looking at LMR400 to meet my loss
> and budget needs. Is the move to sloping ground worth the extra work and
> coax loss??
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sam(N3XZ)
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Topband: Herbert Schoenbohm, KV4FZ: Silent Key

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

So sorry to hear about Herb.

73,

John. W4NU

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 2:21 PM, d...@np2j.com wrote:
> 
> It is with great regret that I have been informed that Herb Schoenbohm KV4FZ 
> has passed away this morning at his home.
> Herb was 84 years of age.
> 
> Herb has been a fixture on Topband since the very beginning, having 160 DXCC 
> #2 (I believe) and has been active in all 160 Meter contests over the years 
> setting many records.
> 
> I personally have been amazed at his stamina in contests, even recently, he 
> would stay up all night CQing long after this 62 year old called it quits...I 
> hope I live as long as Herbie, and be able to put half the rare ones in the 
> log as he did routinely
> 
> 73 Herb
> 
> Best wishes to Herbs wife of over 50 years Monica and Sons Tom, Timmy and Eric
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Topband: JA on 160

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Sent from my iPhone

Worked a JA on 160 this morning and received a 579 report. I was quite 
surprised and gave him a 569. K4IQJ worked him right before me.
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Re: Topband: Conditons, other

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

The band was open here in Atlanta, too.

I worked RT0F at 1210 Z. Then the next was JA7BXS at 1214 Z. Later I 
wrked JA8ISU at 1226 Z.


Prior to today I was hearing nothing!

The best antenna on RX was the Hi-Z 8. Then next was the Waller Flag at 
95 feet. I even was hearing good on the BOG to the NW. Obviously the 
polarization was vertical here.


Glad things are opening up.

73,

John, W4NU


On 2/28/2020 12:40 PM, daraym...@iowatelecom.net wrote:

Here in the midwest (Iowa) we had some very good conditions to Asia this 
morning.  When I got to the rig @ 1120z JA1LZR was calling CQ with a 569 signal 
to get things started.  I then started CQing.  I no sooner started when 
RT0F/Igor called in with a 579+ signal.  He was so strong I first thought it 
was a stateside stations answering.  I then went on to work another half dozen 
JA stations including first time call sign JI1TSD (who was extremely weak but 
patient) and JH2SON who I had not worked in four years.  JA8ISU and JR7VHZ both 
had honest 589 signals.

There are a couple of things I’ve begun to notice this season.  I’m seeing more 
first time call signs (both EU and Asia) than I’ve seen in a while and also 
some Q’s with stations that I’ve not heard from in 4, 5, or even 10 years.  I’m 
not sure what to attribute this to but it’s interesting nevertheless.

73. . .Dave, W0FLS
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Re: Topband: A Bit of Zone 2 History Was Made Last Week

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I fully concur!!

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG, 1959 to 1998

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2019, at 12:42 PM, Doug Renwick  wrote:
> 
> To all those who worship FT8 - Enjoy the decline.
> Quote: " I agree Doug - as I said - FT8 is not real ham radio - but that is
> where we are today."
> 
> Doug 
> 
> "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
> Albert Einstein 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> I congratulate you on your effort. However there are many of us who do not
> consider FT8 as a 'legitimate' QSO.
> Doug
> 
> 
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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

It doesn't bother me at all..

I would rather watch paint dry rather than operate FT8...

I am CW man... Always have been..

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

On 8/6/2019 12:54 PM, Hans Hjelmstr??m wrote:

THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %.

I said already last year.  FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby.

It takes away all efforts, challenge and personal touch.
I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for 
ever in our hobby.

The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 
in mixed band dxcc:s.Make a special FT 8 award.
That might help.And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be 
FT 8   25 %.Fair ?

As yourself, I will never touch this mode, and I can also NOT get any fun in 
having
my PC make these connections.

We are probably some 50 % of all active Hams  feeling the same, BUT answer from 
ARRL
( to me at least ) , was a very arrogant,,,take it or leave it.

Already authorities has started to ask for Amateur frequencies to be given to 
other
activities.

I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE

Take care,and ONLY by sharing our feelings,we might find a way to change this
unfortunate changement. I know, MANY MANY SM Hams ,that still TRY to stay by
human to human connections like CW/SSB/RY, but for how long ??

And even more.New Hams will not know CW.How many years will they enjoy
this PC to PC connections. Probably only few years,and then QRT.That will
be the end of our hobby.
Thanks for the QSO on 6 meter CW some years ago,,,by the way,,,

Regards

Hans  SM6CVX

6 aug 2019 kl. 18:32 skrev d...@np2j.com:

I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the 
160/FT8 issue.
Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA 
DXpedition.
I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying.

 From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital 
has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get on 
Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ and 
run station after station.

The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu stations in a 
few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, whenever there were Digital 
spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so called advantage of FT8 pulling signals 
out of the noise that can't be worked on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the 
band" by calling CQ.
Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to make 
a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ for an 
hour and not work anyone. Sad.

The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands 
including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get a 
nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago the 
pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 minutes 
and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when a 
DXpedition is on.

Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on 
160.

Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a computer do 
all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by making a 
"Contact" in this manner.


But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in 
the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is totally 
boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the DEATH OF HAM RADIO.

Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! SSB 
did not take the Human out of the loop.

First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that make CW 
keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of those things to make 
digital "contacts"

Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big 
towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside 
eventually also.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to 
commercial interests?

How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of 
bandwidth is only being used?

When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G 
GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a few 
characters a minute???

How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating digitally 
only a few characters a minute?


The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy way to 
work a new one".

Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the 
"contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is grabbing new ones the 
easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital 

Re: Topband: BOG height

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

It's hard to beat the Hi-Z arrays when you have limited space..

73,

John, W4NU

On 8/1/2019 1:23 PM, Chuck Dietz wrote:

When I tried a BOG compared to a Beverage, I found the BOG to be almost
useless compared to the Beverage. I would put up one of the arrays K9AY,
SAL-30, 4sq rec, etc.
I don't think you will be happy with a BOG after using a Beverage.

Chuck W5PR

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:08 PM Paul Mclaren  wrote:


Just a ???simple??? question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG
be for best/good performance?

I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I
have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination
resistor.

My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational
compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new
homes so time to look elsewhere.  Current plan is a small number (maybe
three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to
200ft maximum in any direction.

Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m.

Regards

Paul MM0ZBH
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Re: Topband: Which RX antenna is better?

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I am using a Hi-Z 8 here along with a Waller Flag?? (From N4IS es TopBand 
Systems) at 95 feet. In the past I had up a K9AY antennas, several short 
beverages and several Ewe's. I also had up a low dipole at one time.


What I am using now is head and shoulders above any of the above listed 
compromise antennas. I can hear stuff now I could NEVER hear before


73,

John, W4NU

Atlanta

(K4JAG 1959 to 1998)

On 7/29/2019 9:40 AM, Mark - N5OT wrote:

This is a really good answer. Thanks Tim.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 7/29/2019 7:12 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
Terry, I strongly encourage you to put up the K9AY. By no numerical 
measure is it the best. But it???s easy to put up and Compared to all 
the others, it is relatively insensitive to other objects around it. 
And for a first RC antenna, it is super satisfying to click between 
directions and hear stations in the null disappear as proof of 
directivity.


Interactions with other antennas is a ???big station problem??? and you 
or I won???t notice what bothers the big stations.


Tim N3QE


On Jul 29, 2019, at 12:27 AM, terry burge  wrote:

Hi folks,

I have four kits purchased on ebay for receive antennas as well as a 
bi-directional beverage from KD9SV. Looking on my county plot map it 
looks like I can run about a 412' beverage using my neighbors ground 
and mine. Got a good neighbor you could say who just doesn't want a 
BOG to trip on but a beverage not too low to walk into is Ok. My 
ebay provided kits are DHDL, EWE and Penant/flag/diamond from a low 
cost Canada source. But I'm faced with the problem of fences, power 
lines, roads and my TX antennas on my 1 1/2 acre plot. If one of 
those antennas could handle being near the fences,etc or TX antennas 
I'd like to hear about it. I've already got a K9AY in the works and 
that one is near my 40 meter 4-square. Running the beverage is going 
to be near or even under my K8UR style 80 meter 4-square made with 
1/2 WL slopers. I've thought some about converting the 80 meter 
4-square to using 3":irrigation tubing extended with some 3" 
irrigation tubing and a coil at the elevated base but I'm j
ust not sure if it would be an improvement. It would be near 50' 
verticals if I could do it. Not sure if I would lose too much gain.



Any suggestions other?? than 'give up'? I've always had a time 
hearing the DX especially on 160 meters.


Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: Lack of NA Activity on CW

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

On 4/24/2019 4:48 PM, jayb1...@optonline.net wrote:

Lets face it guys ??? hams like me (age 76, licensed at age 14) learned and
used CW as an (almost) mandatory part of the hobby. Along came the NO-CW
licenses and there was a whole lot fewer new people on CWUs old timers
are dying off and the CW mandate goes with us. Regardless of the rise of the
digital modes (oh, do remember, RTTY is a digital mode), the total number of
CW ops was destined to fall ! The new-comers (no cw requirement of course),
raised on bits and bites, naturally gravitated to the new Digital modes,
particularly during these sunspot doldrums. If it was 1980, they would all
be on 10m ssb working the world 24/7 !
Be patient, in 4-5 years condx will improve dramatically (we hope !) and
there will be a big shift back to SSBbut...don???t expect a similar
resurgence of CW...sadly, it???s a dying art...so us OT???s should enjoy it
while we can and learn to live with the new realities of HR.
73 jay NY2NY
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I am 75 and licensed since 1959 at age 15.. I am big on CW and love it. 
I have little interest in the digital modes even though I am a 3-time GA 
Tech graduate..


CW rules... especially on 160.

73,

John, W4NU

K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

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Re: Topband: NA activity CW topband ....................

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Guys,

I have had better luck here in Atlanta with the Hi-Z 8. Lee, K7TJR, has 
increased the lightening protection and I have been basically strike free for a 
couple of years. The 100 ft 45G (with the Waller Flag at 95 feet) pretty much 
takes the
Strikes halfway up the big hill toward the QTH. The Hi-Z 8 is down the hill es 
across he creek in the creek’s flood plain. 
It’s quiet es down low and away from the noise sources. I just had the tree 
guys cut up es remove a LARGE tree that had fallen in he Hi-Z 8 antenna area.

Best 73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

P.S. Enjoying the new XYL. She is 160 friendly es will be at Dayton with me. 






Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: daraym...@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 12:07 PM
To: w...@w5zn.org; uy0zg
Cc: Topband
Subject: Re: Topband: NA activity CW topband 

Same thing here. . . .lightning season is upon us so the elements here on 
the TX array are grounded and the Hi-Z 8 circle array is decommissioned 
(amps at elements removed, elements grounded, phasing/switching electronics 
removed).  I continue to keep my 1/4 wave sloping vertical with elevated 
radials in service during the summer months so I'm not QRT altogether but 
with limited ability to hear.  I feel guilty not being QRV very much as the 
guys in southern hemisphere are always so faithful about being on during 
their summer months. 73. . . Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message- 
From: w...@w5zn.org
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 8:38 AM
To: uy0zg
Cc: Topband
Subject: Re: Topband: NA activity CW topband 

Greetings Nick,

With spring here in the south I have begun taking down all of my  RX
antennas in preparation for hay cutting in the fields plus the severe
lightning we have from spring and summer storms pretty much destroys the
RX antenna components if left out through summer. The QRN/noise level is
high on the TX antenna so my focus has moved to other bands/activity.

I'm sure that's probably the case with a few other "regulars" on the
band as well.

73 Joel W5ZN

On 2019-04-13 03:31, uy0zg wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> What happened ?
>
>
> One NV3N from all over America.
>
>
> No electricity?
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Re: Topband: 4sq vs SAL 30 Mkii in a forest

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

My Hi-Z 8 is located in a flood plain down the hill and across the creek 
in a large city lot here in Atlanta. Being there it is below and away 
from most noise sources. It has provided consistent good results on 80 
and 160. Due to protective upgrades by Lee it is not as sensitive to 
lightening as it once was. My lot size is one acre which is large in  
the City of Atlanta.


It works nicely since most polarization appears to be vertical here. 
V84SAA was storming in here from the NW on 80 CW one morning. 
Unfortunately I was not able to copy them on 160. I could not copy them 
on 160 on the Waller Flag on a 40 foot boom at 95 feet either.


Propagation here has not been the best this season. However I did pick u 
several new ones.


The difference here now is largely attributable to the IC-7610 which has 
an inherent and ERIE quietness being an SDR. I hear many stations I 
cannot copy on my K-3 though the K3 is an excellent receiver.


73,

John, W4NU

Atlanta, GA

(K4JAG 1959 to 1998)



On 2/18/2019 11:58 PM, cqtestk4xs--- via Topband wrote:

I have  had both.
First, the SAL-30 is currently being used at my station and hears considerably 
better than my 160 vertical.  It exhibits F/B somewhere around 15-20 dBs on 
160.  It is located about 100 ft from the nearest antenna (the westernmost 
vertical of my 4 sq for 80), about 150 feet from my tower and 175 ft from my 
160 vertical.  Other than that it is in the clear...no trees at all.  I am 
totally satisfied with its performance.  It hears about the same as my 4 sq for 
80, and down from my 4 el at 85 ft for 40.  Although sometimes it does hear 
better on 40 and 80, but not often.
In FL I had a Hi-Z array but I always felt it was compromised.  Why?  It was in 
the back part of my lot where several elements were very close to the trees.  
One element was almost touching the trees...big oaks with lots of Spanish moss. 
 I also had a run of TV cable of 550 ft to it.  This is not to bad mouth the 
antenna system, I just felt I had put it in the wrong part of the yard and it 
might have performed better with less of a run and further away from the trees.
I sold the station about a year after I bought the antenna so I never moved the 
system.
By the way, 160 was hopping over the weekend out here in the ARRLDX331 
stations and many were VERY LOUD.
Bill K4XS/KH7B/KH7XS


-Original Message-
From: Lee STRAHAN 
To: Joe Subich, W4TV ; topband@contesting.com 

Sent: Tue, Feb 19, 2019 4:15 am
Subject: Re: Topband: 4sq vs SAL 30 Mkii in a forest

   Joe and all,
   Looking at the YCCC plots show all back lobes on 160 meters to be right at 
20 dB down. The Hi-Z 4-square as shipped has only 2 side lobes and both are at 
20 dB down with a notch directly off the back at usual 30+ dB down. Its true 
there are plots around that show the -13 dB side lobes on the 4-square which is 
a special phase delay to maximize the RDF another 0.1 dB or so.
   In addition, the 4-square suffers NO degradation in pattern and produces the 
same F/B and RDF on 80 meters as it does on 160. The YCCC is degraded on 80m. 
If the 4-square is built on a 60 foot side dimension instead of the usual 80 
feet there is less than 1/10 reduction in RDF on 160 and the nearly same 160 
meter performance is also available on 40 meters as well.
     There is one fact that remains. Having any receiving antenna that works is 
always better than none at all. Compromised or not. The only indicator of 
performance in the long run is smiles behind the dial. Hope you, K7XH get lots 
of private messages to help you with your choice as well. I am thinking your 
trees are a non-issue.

Lee  K7TJR
Hi-Z Antennas


 



  > Any experience with the same or  thoughts?

I would recommend looking into the YCCC "9 circle" (or "5 square") array.  Even 
though the kits are no longer available boards appear to be available from the PI4CC group.

The vertical arrays are less susceptible to wildlife damage than the SAL (due 
to the low horizontal wire of the SAL) and provide a higher signal level 
(before the preamp).

I like the YCCC design because it has a cleaner pattern than the
4 square (the center element is not "split" and thus does not cause a spurious sidelobe 
response).  Further, the "9 circle"
version provides 45 degree pattern selection (vs. 90 degrees for the 4 square) 
and if 90 degree steps are acceptable, the 5 square version provides the higher 
RDF in the same space (60' diagonal square).

As long as you keep the verticals (or the ends of the SAL) 10 - 15'
or so from tree trunks and keep the "brush' out of the array any degradation 
should be minimal (mostly as additional losses) with any of the antenna designs.

If you are comfortable with NEC (antenna modelling), I urge you to run the models of all three 
designs and make your own choice.  Based on the models, the SAL appear to be "unstable" 
and more prone to environmental factors that the "amplified" vertical arrays.

73,

     ... Joe, W4TV

Re: Topband: JAs on TopBand

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I worked three (3) JA's here in Atlanta this morning.. It was actually 
better after sunrise... I received a 579 from JH2FXK at 1257 Z..


They were rolling in from the NW on the Hi-Z 8

73,

John, W4NU

On 12/22/2018 11:57 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote:

This morning was surreal.

I couldn't sleep so I got up around 0900Z, had a cup of coffee, read for a
while, then went down to the shack.  I worked 3D2AG on 80M CW and was
listening to him put in a very nice signal to the east coast while I did
some email correspondence.  I QSY'd to 160M around 1145Z.

I worked JH1HDT, JA7BXS, and JA0MVW between 1202Z and 1216Z. 3 JA's!!!
Wow!!!

My SR is around 0723Z.  I figured what the heck, parked on 1823 and called
CQ DX.  This is where it gets surreal.  I worked JH7PFD, JO1WXO,
JH2FXK, and JA2ZL between 1222 and 1234Z -- They called me!  I had to dig
to get some of them, but we made it.

I was going to shut down and noticed BG2AUE was spotted on 80M.  I went to
80M and oh my God I'm hearing him.   Coffee flying,  I quickly
changed feedlines and turned the linear so the knobs would match my red
electrical tape marks.  Squirted some RF  He was 20 KHz down from where
I had worked 3D2AG and the SWR was higher than I'd like. but 3500Z are
forgiving so more RF was squirted.He came back to me!  Well, I'm pretty
sure he did as he was weak as water,  when I worked him at 1259Z, which is
my SR + 35 minutes or so.  I have an email out to him and I am checking
LoTW periodically well,  more than periodically..

I'm waiting for Rod Serling to walk around the corner.. "Here we have
one Mark K3MSB, an unknowing visitor to the Twilight Zone..."

Days like this are what make all the days upon days of crappy propagation
worth it!   As my TopBand Elmer Glenn K3SWZ always tells me -- "you have to
put in the seat time and be there when "it" happens. "

73 Mark K3MSB
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Re: Topband: Waller Flag

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Without my Hi-Z 8 and the Waller Flag (on a 40 Ft boom at 95 ft) I would not 
hear squat on 160.
I listen in diversity receive with the K3 and use only the Hi-Z 8 with the 
IC-7610. However, the IC-7610 is EXTREMELY QUIET!! 

73,

John, W4NU
Atlanta
K4JAG 1959 to 1998

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 15, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Stan Stockton  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Rick.  I think you are fortunate to have a low noise level where
> you could actually use your TX Antenna.
> 
> My situation is that if I tried to listen on my transmit antenna I would
> only work the very strongest of signals.  Typically the noise moves the
> meter to about 20-25 over S9 if I listen on my vertical.  The best success
> I have had is with a Beverage, but whether on any given trip I can put one
> up largely depends on whether any of the four or five people's property I
> would cross are there and whether they would allow it or complain about
> it.  On my own property, the only thing I have done is put up a little
> triangle with the top at about 20 feet and the bottom wire in the
> neighborhood of 30-35 feet.  That antenna has about -37 dB of gain.  A 15
> dB preamp plus the preamp in the transceiver makes it an OK antenna - good
> enough that I have worked about 250 JA stations none of which would have
> been worked if I were listening on my vertical.  And I am guessing that if
> I had a 3 dB improvement in S/N ratio that I would have worked 400 in the
> same time period.  That antenna has an RDF of 7.7.  Always wanting
> something better and if I could put up something I could rotate with an RDF
> of 11 or so, I would hope to be content.
> 
> Stan
> 
> Stan
> 
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 1:47 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
> rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:
> 
>> General response, not specific to the Waller Flag:
>> 
>> For a number of good reasons, you should not expect
>> a NF below 3 dB for any practical preamp.  OTOH,
>> virtually all radios have an internal switchable preamp.
>> Let's say your radio is really pedestrian, and the
>> internal preamp has 10 dB NF.  Neglecting feedline
>> loss, your preamp gain only needs to be about 13 dB in
>> order to the preamp noise to dominate over the radio
>> noise.  Any additional gain above that will not help
>> you "start to hear band noise" but will instead hear
>> preamp noise.  Some ops like to use additional gain in
>> the preamp to make the AGC threshold occur at a lower
>> level.  This reduces listener fatigue, but does not
>> actually produce any newly-readable signals.
>> 
>> If the above isn't correct, can someone give a worked
>> example of where a 40 dB preamp would make sense?
>> 
>> FWIW, I tried a Waller loop last year in the 160 meter
>> contest.  It was quite large (I have plenty of space).
>> It seemed to be working OK in terms of being directional,
>> but it almost never improved the readability of any
>> signals vs the vertical.  IOW, aiming it at Japan didn't
>> help work JA's, except to the extent that it reduced
>> stateside QRM.  On a clear frequency, there was no advantage.
>> 
>> 73
>> Rick N6RK
>> 
>>> On 12/15/2018 11:15 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>>> I am curious to know if anyone on here has scaled a Waller Flag to a
>>> smaller antenna and had any success with whatever might be available for
>>> preamps to bring the gain up enough to start to hear band noise.
>>> 
>>> At my location on Cayman Brac I could probably get by with a 20 foot boom
>>> but not much larger.  According to my model, one with a 50 foot boom is
>>> about -48 dB, one with a 30 foot boom is about -65 dB and one with a 20
>>> foot boom, like I would lilke to put up, is about -79 dB.
>>> 
>>> I guess a lot to do with how successful the antenna might work for me
>> will
>>> have to do with how much preamplifier gain I will need at my particular
>>> location to start to hear noise.  I wanna use it on 160, 80 and 40 and
>> the
>>> gain of the 20 foot boom one is enough for 80 and 40 using a 30 or 40 dB
>>> preamp.
>>> 
>>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> 73 and Merry Christmas...Stan, K5GO/ZF9CW
>>> _
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>> Reflector
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have never had a problem with soldering PL-259’s and I have been putting them 
on since 1959! I know how to soldering them correctly.


  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 8, 2018, at 2:57 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/8/2018 11:34 AM, terry burge wrote:
>> Thanks John,
>> Now if some of us only knew where we get a solder pot to pxxx, excuse me, 
>> dip out coax in.
>> Terry
>> KI7M
> 
> I've been shopping for them.  You need a minimum of 1 1/4" depth for
> the PL-259.  That rules out all the cheap ones.  For ~$300 you can
> get an American Beauty with 1 1/2" depth.
> 
> Does anyone have a better idea?
> 
> Rick N6RK
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Re: Topband: Polarization on 160m

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

On 80 I listen on the K3 with the Waller Flag at 95 feet es the Hi-Z 8 
in Diversity Receive and transmit on the M2 rotary 106 feet..

I kill them on this band.

160 is harder on RX as I use the K3 as above and also the Ultra-Quiet 
IC-7610 with only the Hi-Z 8 es transmit on the 100 foot shunt fed 45G 
tower.


73,

John, W4NU





On 11/28/2018 1:48 PM, VE6WZ Steve wrote:

Agreed...
Diversity RX is a game changer.
If you have never used it you don’t know what you are missing.
Beverages and 9 circle rx array used here in diversity and for the weak ones on 
160 it makes the difference between Q5 and almost no copy. On 80m the Beverages 
and 2el Yagi are used in diversity with similar results.

Steve Ve6wz

 From Babcocks iPhone


On Nov 28, 2018, at 9:54 AM,  
 wrote:

There is simply no substitute for diversity reception.   It has proven its 
worth to virtually all who have ever used it.   73 to all. . . Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message- From: Yuri Blanarovich
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 11:13 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Polarization on 160m


Speaking of "two ears"
Going back to using two Drake R4B receivers, two antennas, one on each
ear, there would be times when "two ears" heard the signal, while
switching to each other there would be nil. I think that was some DSP
going on in the head.
BTW Drake R4B is still one of the best receivers for weak signals
reception, no crystal filters in the path to fuzzy the signals. LC in IF
chain. DSRs are now very close.

Yuri, K3BU


On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Tree wrote:

WIll add my two cents to this discussion.

One thing I have experience with is diversity reception both on 160 and 80
meters.  Often - I would be using my TX antenna in one ear and a beverage
in another.  On 80 meters, the TX antenna was a 4 square.  On 160, either a
vertical or two element phased array.

I found on 80 meters - when running JAs in a contest - if I only used one
antenna - I would almost always miss one letter of the JA's callsign and
have to ask for a repeat...  but with diversity - the signal would float
around in my head and I could almost always get the whole call the first
time.

I can hear this effect on 160 as well as signals float around.  I can't
prove this is just polarization - as it could be different angles of signal
arrival - but it sure re-enforces the point that having different kinds of
RX antennas for different situations is never a bad thing.

I have experienced some sunrise openings where a low dipole has worked
well.  There are times when my directive receive antennas seem to be broken
- which is another indication of high angles.

Tree N6TR


On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 8:51 AM Yuri Blanarovich  wrote:

Not knowing about "gyros", but when operating and having vertical and
horizontal antennas available, I remember times when QSB was happening
on one antenna, switching to the "other" polarization antenna would
bring the signals up.
My conclusion was that at the times the signal's polarization was
rolling around, especially when far DX.

Yuri, K3BU, VE3BMV, VE1BY



On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 09:22 AM, Robert Parkes via Topband wrote:


Polarization on 160m

Interesting discussion and one I suspect we wish could fully
comprehend !

When the wave front meets the ionosphere and the wave splits the
critical frequency is different for the two waves, commonly known as
foc and fxc.
This difference (from memory) is half the gyrofrequency and can often
be seen on Ionosonde plots with two sets of reflections. The gyro
frequency depends on the strength of the magnetic field at that point
of the ionosphere so can vary from 700kHz to 1.4MHz where the radiated
wave interacts with the Ionosphere Layer be it, E layer or F layer.

Being radio amateurs and pushing the envelope we are trying to make
that illusive QSO so we need to excite a propagation path which is
normally at the limit in order to chase the DX.
Assuming conditions are favourable, and if the angle of arrival and
critical frequency is such that it favours both wave fronts then for a
single and multi-hop transmission both the O-wave and the X-wave will
be propagated.

The higher frequency of the two wave fronts, the X-wave may propagate
which could result in a QSO whilst those around us may not have quite
the same favourable conditions and only the O-wave is propagated  on a
differeing path while the X-Wavecould fall by the wayside and not be
propagated.
One result of all this variability could result in what has been
called spotlight or torchlight propagation.  I recall Eric K3NA giving
a talk along these lines when referring to 3B7C 160m operations and
how that spotlight moved across North America during the course of his
opening to the US.
There is a possibility that Circular Polarisation would assist
with both the O and X wave modes of propagation and it could be argued
that a "compromise" Inv-L antenna provides this with its Vertical and
Horizontal elements making up the 

Re: Topband: 40m array as RX antenna

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have one of JC's Waller Flags on a 40 foot boom at 95 feet.. It is fed 
with LMR-600 at the tower base XFMR where the 100 ohm twin-ax 
terminates. It is use with a K-3 in diversity receive with a Hi-Z 8 
which is down the hill es across the creek. The system hears remarkably 
well.. Beverages, Ewes, and other RX antennas are out the door...


In the shack the 40 dB N4IS pre-amp is in a steel box for shielding 
purposes.  All components of the station are connected via 1/2 " braid 
to a 6 ' x 6" x 1\4' aluminum grounding bus.


There are multiple chokes in the leads per N4IS es NX4D... It has been a 
long process.


The IC-7610 is also in use from time to time since this SDR radio is 
Ultra-Quiet...


73,

John, W4NU


On 11/15/2018 7:19 AM, JC wrote:

Hi Jim and Lee


Before we agree that we disagree, let me elaborate on few basic concepts for a 
good design. Point by point and let me know which one you disagree.

1- RF runs outside the cable surface, it does not matter what is inside, a coax 
cable shield, a solid # 4 wire external surface is similar to a RG58 in respect 
of RF current.

2- Every cable on your station is an antenna. If the cable is 1/8 to 1/2 wave 
long on low bands, the energy on the outside surface is very high. 100ft rotor 
cable , or 100ft 9913 from your 2m antenna, or 100ft of controls cable, and or 
100ft of RG6 on your RX antenna have almost the same energy of your 160m 
inverted L ~ 120ft.

3- All these cables somehow are connected to your station ground at your 
station. All of them are part of your antenna system and interact with each 
other.

4- Any of these cables connecting into a well-designed board brings a lot of 
energy on low bands, normally called common mode noise, signal that we don’t 
want to mix with our RX signal coming from our RX antenna.

5- Prevent the external RF current to enter into our board is a big problem on 
low bands. On Audio, you have an excellent description of pin 1 problem on your 
papers, 60 and 120 Hz is the issue. On low bands 1.8 MHz, all RF signals from 
50 KHz to 10 MHz are responsible for the common mode noise current on low band 
antennas.

6- To filter or decouple 1.8 MHz signal a 1000 pf or 1nF has a very high 
impedance, 10nF is not enough, it is necessary 100 nF or more. DC filter is an 
issue too, it is easy to inject the common mode noise into the Vcc.


7- May point is that is very difficult to protect any board or parts, like a 
BALUN or transformer, or any amplifier from common mode noise, PIN 1 PROBLEM.  
A plastic box make almost impossible to avoid that. A Metal case protects the 
board and avoid the external current to get into the board.

8- I can agree that the intensity of the signal and the  common mode signal 
leak could be 20 db, 30 db or more. However when you dig a weak signal it is 
huge problem.

73'
JC
N4IS






-Original Message-
From: Jim Brown [mailto:j...@audiosystemsgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 8:10 PM
To: n...@n4is.com
Cc: l...@k7tjr.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 40m array as RX antenna

On 11/14/2018 4:41 PM, n...@n4is.com wrote:

I would suggest a metal box to protect any RX system, it does help.

Only if the circuit layout is poor. Lee is right - shielding of circuity is 
only a band-aid for poor design.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Topband: VP6D Monday Night @ P40W

[John Harden]

I got them on 80 es 160 CW this morning here in Atlanta.
73,
John, 
W4NU








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On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:46 PM -0400, "cqtestk4xs--- via Topband" 
 wrote:










I agree with John.  I'm 3000+ miles away and they were running EU stuff I 
couldn't even hear on my shared apex.
Bill KH7XS


-Original Message-
From: John Crovelli 
To: topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Tue, Oct 23, 2018 6:06 pm
Subject: Topband: VP6D Monday Night @ P40W

The VP6D ops were really terrific last night.  Listened to them for two hours.  
They cleaned the table to EU.


Worked them from P40W with 100w and 55 foot tall vertical dipole.  A definite 
thrill!


RX was better on NE beverage here too as someone else mentioned ... perhaps 
because that is the direction with with least noise or perhaps my 800' beverage 
doesn't have much front to back.  They peaked as high as an honest S-9 on my 
K3S at times but averaged S-7 for long periods.  Whatever they've managed to 
put up for a TX antenna is very effective - I know they've been fighting wind 
and rain.


Love Top Band!


John W2GD a.k.a. P40W this week


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Re: Topband: FW: [cwops] Topband season looking good

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Yesterday I worked VK es 1st JA of season. This morning I worked a UA0..

RX antenna is Hi-Z 8. The IC-7610 is amazing

73,

John, W4NU

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2018, at 9:44 AM,   wrote:
> 
> Hi topband lovers
> 
> The good days of 160m propagation is back!  T88UW signal was real 569 10 
> minutes after my SR. Ichiro is running 100W and a sloper antenna not so high. 
> Robert DU7ET also with good signal this morning. All lovely cw signals.
> 
> DX season on 160m is open and very promising.
> 
> 73's
> JC
> N4IS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband  On Behalf Of Raoul Coetzee via 
> Topband
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 3:45 AM
> To: TopBand List ; CWops Groups ; 
> FOC Reflector 
> Cc: m...@cwops.groups.io
> Subject: Re: Topband: [cwops] Topband season looking good
> 
> I meant to say first NA for this year!
>On ‎Friday‎, ‎October‎ ‎5‎, ‎2018‎ ‎08‎:‎46‎:‎06‎ ‎AM‎ ‎SAST, Raoul 
> Coetzee via Groups.Io  wrote:  
> 
> Managed my first NA this morning around my SR on 160m.I worked Bob, W9EWZ in 
> Wisconsin (CW of course) Raoul ZS1C_._,_._,_Groups.io Links:
> You receive all messages sent to this group.
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> View/Reply Online (#27803) | Reply To Sender | Reply To Group | Mute This 
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Re: Topband: Use shunt fed tower

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

A shunt fed tower requires radials period. It cannot work without them! 

73,

John, W4NU

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2018, at 1:55 PM,  
>  wrote:
> 
> It makes no difference how the tower is fed, a vertical antenna must have 
> radials of some kind to be effective.  73. . .Dave, W0FLS
> 
> -Original Message- From: cfytech24x7
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 11:29 AM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Use shunt fed tower
> 
> A shunt fed tower is a vertical antenna so it offers lowest take off angle. 
> Shunt feeding avoids need for radial field.  Any horizontal wire antenna is 
> going to put most of your radiated energy out at high angles, unless you can 
> get it at least a half wavelength of height.  A loop may be a quieter antenna 
> for RX but your existing inverted Vs are no doubt better for TX.
> There is some art and experimentation involved in the matching but the 
> results will be worth the effort.  I  would start with your highest antenna 
> for top band, next highes for 80m. Note that your yagis will act nicely as 
> capacitive hats to add to effective tower hight.
> Gl es 73, ab1vl chuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
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Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

The band was open this morning to VK... I worked VK2HJ es VK2WF

73,

John, W4NU
Atlanta, GA

On 9/11/2018 5:26 PM, vk2wf wrote:

Hi allYesterday I worked DL7CX, OT4A and PE5T just on my sunrise.73Adrian vk2wf


Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S7 on the Telstra Mobile Network
 Original message From: daraym...@iowatelecom.net Date: 12/9/18  6:58 am  
(GMT+10:00) To: topband@contesting.com, "Dr. Wolf Ostwald"  
Subject: Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU
Greetings Topbanders. . .Wolf is right.  Get out phones and fire up the
filaments!  I got on TB this morning for the first time this season (just
got the antennas recommissioned after lightning season) and worked VK7CW,
VK5XDX, VK2WF, and VK3HJ.  No sign of our good friends from JA yet but
things are looking up!   73. . .Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message-
From: Dr. Wolf Ostwald
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2018 2:35 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

Hello !

it seems that slowly the band nw opens up. Dave had a workable signal
this morning into EU. It was a kind of 1 minute QSB intervall. And on
the peak he was 549. But he came back to the second call .

In them ol`days we used to work the westcoast by the third weekend in
September. But from what i experienced the last years, we have less stns
capable of bridging the continent and another ocean.

Its about time everybody brings up the filaments and wears the
headphones again.

see u guys down there wolf    df2py

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Re: Topband: KH1/KH7Z was a tough go

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I had really good luck from Atlanta. I got them on
160, 80, 40 and 20 CW.

On 160 and 80 diversity RX with the Waller Flag at 95 feet and the Hi-Z 8 
really made copy good.

On 40 I used the full size Telrex monobander at 112 ft.

73,

John, W4NU





Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 14, 2018, at 5:42 PM, terry burge  wrote:
> 
> I see this stuff about how easy or difficult the KH1 operation was to work. 
> I'm on the west coast in northwestern Oregon and I personally found them one 
> of the worst operations to hear from the Pacific I've ever worked. Worked 
> them on 80 and 40 for ATNO and on 20 and 17 too. The 80 meter contact was one 
> of the hardest I've had on that band as they kept dropping into the noise 
> floor. And I've had some pretty difficult contacts on 80 meter before but 
> KH1/KH7Z is right up there with the hardest. These were all SSB contacts. I 
> spent a lot of time trying to work them on 12 meters and some on 15 meters 
> too. On 15 I should have managed to work them but they apparently went QRT 
> right when they were coming up and I lost my chance. Didn't really need them 
> on 15 having worked K1B on 20/17/15/10 back in 2002.
> 
> 
> One thing I was blown away with was I worked E51JD, Jim on Raratonga, South 
> Cook Islands with a good 57 or better signal but the KH1 was near impossible 
> to hear on 15 meters at the same time. Judging from the map I don't think E51 
> and KH1 are all that far apart but the propagation sure was different. I'd 
> guess about 1000 miles apart at the most but much closer to the equator. The 
> Pacific is a big ocean we all know. On 12 meters I never did hear him on SSB. 
> They would of been an ATNO on 12 so I spent a lot of time listening for them 
> on there.
> 
> 
> And as far as I know they did not work any SSB on 160. When I tried to hear 
> them on 160 meters CW I don't think I could ever heard them but my CW is poor 
> enough I might have heard them and not realized it. Everyone calling sounded 
> like they were going 25-35 WPM which I just take my hat off too. I'm maybe 
> 15-18 WPM at the best of times, maybe. Copying beacons is about my extent on 
> that mode.
> 
> 
> Terry
> 
> KI7M
> 
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Re: Topband: Straws in the wind, continued or, "Where's the DX?"

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Nice opening to VK this morning from Atlanta after SR.

Luke was equally strong on Hi Z 8 and Waller Flag at 95 ft.

73,

John, W4NU

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 1, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Brian Pease  wrote:
> 
> In my experience (sine 1957) casual CW DX contacts have nearly always been 
> RST, QTH, Name, and for a long QSO maybe Rig.  A memory keyer can do most of 
> TX, and nowadays there are fairly good CW decoders.  Not much different from 
> other digital modes.
> It seems to me that most of the thrill of DX is when the DX first returns 
> your call.  Soon you are ready to move on to another conquest.
> Contacts between friends are an entirely different matter.
> 
>> On 4/1/2018 9:20 AM, Jeff Blaine wrote:
>> There is good and bad with the FT8.
>> 
>> The good is that it is bringing guys into the HF DX realm who never got 
>> active in DX because for whatever reason they felt they did not have a good 
>> DX station.  The bad is that the focus on RTTY (my favorite mode) has become 
>> less especially for DXpeditions in favor of the idea of FT8.  The logic 
>> behind these varies with the guy - but I think after the excitement and 
>> shine of FT8 wears off, the net will be still more total participants in HF. 
>>  That's got to be a good thing.
>> 
>> I don't feel bad for the dxpedition community especially wanting to promote 
>> FT8 over RTTY.  Working a RTTY pileup on the dxpedition end can result in 
>> pathetic rates and there has been no effort to promote a multi-slot skimmer 
>> type of software package that would make RTTY pileup into the high rate that 
>> is possible.  Along comes FT8 with the promise to do just that in an 
>> upcoming package so I view the dxpedition guys moving to FT8 as a logical 
>> choice over RTTY simply because it will end up having a higher rate than 
>> what most RTTY runs end up being.  I don't run FT8 at the moment but if a 
>> dxpedition is only running FT8 for the digital slot, I guess I will run it.  
>> The genie is out of the bottle there.
>> 
>> It would certainly help if the ARRL especially had not homogenize the RTTY 
>> and all other digital modes into one for the purpose of the DXCC.  Why not 
>> issue separate certificates for each popular mode and benefit from the fees 
>> that would bring to the ARRL?  That would also make a lot of guys who have 
>> worked their life's for the RTTY DXCC count not feel as if the 
>> accomplishment is being diluted by FT8 and the other ether-modes.  But the 
>> ARRL's decisions more and more defy logic so I suppose that's a topic for 
>> another day.
>> 
>> But for contesting and rag chewing and DX, I'm in the camp as the other 
>> traditionalists are - the op on the end talking into the mic, slapping the 
>> paddle or typing to try to keep up with the RTTY feed is what a real QSO is 
>> about.  FT8 does result in a technical QSO but I'm not sure where the 
>> sustained enjoyment in that mode is beyond making the contact.
>> 
>> 73/jeff/ac0c
>> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>> www.ac0c.com
>> 
>>> On 01-Apr-18 7:49 PM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>>> Some questions in my mind.
>>> 
>>> How important is RF in the evolution of amateur radio? Would those who 
>>> operate using FT8 be a lot less interested if it were just computers 
>>> linking them with others without transmitted RF? How about operator 
>>> involvement or skill?
>>> 
>>> How important is it that hams retain 4 MHz of spectrum on 6m or other bands 
>>> if most everyone has abandoned CW and SSB?
>>> 
>>> Is there some sense of achievement when there is so much headroom in power 
>>> alone that another 3 dB or even another 20 dB is so easy to achieve?
>>> 
>>> About 50% of my enjoyment of the hobby is thinking, many hours of every 
>>> day, about how to somehow achieve another dB on some band or another with a 
>>> better antenna.  After about 50 hours of modeling I am now drilling tubing 
>>> to make what I hope will be a great pair of tribanders to take to ZF9CW 
>>> location.  One person's total waste of time is another's passion.
>>> 
>>> To each his own, but for the long term future of what has provided so many 
>>> of us with a lifetime of enjoyment, woe is me.
>>> 
>>> 73... Stan, K5GO
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Re: Topband: XM240 Hi-Q coils

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Interesting guys. I have had up a full size Telrex monobander (2 el) since 
1995. It has 66 ft full size elements on a 14 foot boom. It has been a killer 
since it went up. One of the best investments I have ever made. It is 6 ft 
above an M2 rotary for 80/75 at 112 ft.

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG 1959 to 1998

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 28, 2018, at 8:29 PM, Steve Babcock  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> (If you don't mind, I have shared this to the reflector since I have rx’d 
> other similar questions)
> 
> I have lately been using 4NEC2 (free and very good program: 
> http://www.qsl.net/4nec2/  )
> My model is not a “standalone” 40m yagi, but includes the 80m Yagi on the 
> same boom. (the 40m Yagi shares the boom with the 80m Yagi)
> 
> However, I would suggest you build you own model anyway and play with the 
> Reflector tuning and observe the F/B, gain, impedance and BW. It is very 
> informative. You will also realize that when the peak F/B approaches the 
> resonance point the BW will get real narrow. Also, you will see that when the 
> reflector is tuned that short, the Yagi will actually reverse direction below 
> the FB peak since the reflector begins to act like a director. Thats why you 
> need bandswitching.
> 
> The most important thing about building your own model is you can then 
> determine the resonant point of the reflector when the driver is isolated. In 
> the model, insert about 1e6 ohms load at the driver element, and then do a 
> sweep and measure the resonance. Then, when you build the Yagi on the tower, 
> isolate the driver (just open it up) and use your analyzer to tune the 
> reflector for resonance at the measured qrg as per the model results. Then 
> tune the driver and include the necessary matching network based on the 
> impedance data gained from the model.
> 
> go here to my webpage…everything is explained for the coil build here:
> http://www.qsl.net/ve6wz/CC_coil.html 
> 
> For detail on general coil construction and the tuning methods I used, see 
> what I did with the 80m Yagi here:
> http://www.qsl.net/ve6wz/intro.htm 
> 
> 73, de steve ve6wz
> 
> 
>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 4:25 PM, Bill Cotter  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Steve,
>> 
>> I was intrigued with your note below on improving the XM240 antenna. I have 
>> an older Cushcraft 40-CD that I would like to improve the F/B and possibly 
>> the gain, but I only care about a bandwidth between 7000-7050kHz.
>> 
>> I would like to know how you designed and built the Hi-Q coils to replace 
>> the stock coils. And, if you would share your design dimensions for maximum 
>> F/B, or the model file so I can recreate it down in the bottom CW segment. 
>> For tools, I have YO, AO and EZnec modeling software, plus a rig expert 
>> analyzer.
>> 
>> I love this lightweight antenna and want to take it to the next step. BTW: I 
>> have toyed with the idea of building a W6NL Moxon for 40M, but I'll do that 
>> from scratch with more substantial materials. Getting this 40-CD back up is 
>> my short term goal.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> 
>> 73 Bill N4LG
>> 
>> 
>> At 12:27 AM 3/28/2018, you wrote:
>>> The large BW and 50 ohm feed point of the XM240 is partly due to the 
>>> loading coils, but mostly because of the reflector element tuning.
>>> With any Yagi, as the max FB QRG gets closer to the minimum SWR qrg 
>>> (resonance), the BW will crash. Cushcraft designed this Yagi to provide an 
>>> easy match and a big BW, but sacrificed both gain and FB. Specifically, if 
>>> the reflector is tuned for max FB at or above the design min SWR frequency 
>>> the bandwidth will be very narrow. This is because the elements are very 
>>> tightly coupled. Also, the feed point impedance will be very low.
>>> The XM-240 has the reflector tuned much below the design centre SWR min 
>>> frequency. In other words, if you shortened the reflector element of the 
>>> XM-240, (but left the driver unchanged) the SWR would be very high because 
>>> the impedance would be much below 50 ohms and the bandwidth would be very 
>>> narrow, but the FB and gain would be improved.
>>> 
>>> I rebuilt my XM-240 with hi q coils, but I also shortened the reflector to 
>>> maximize gain and FB based on NEC modelling. I require a helical hairpin to 
>>> match to 50ohms, since the feed point impedance is around 25 ohms. The 
>>> bandwidth is so narrow I have built band-switch boxes at each element, each 
>>> with 4 relays to add inductance to cover all of 40 m. This is the same 
>>> system used on my coil loaded short 2el 80m Yagi.
>>> The XM240 is s proven performer even with the lossy coils, and like any 
>>> commercial product, simplicity and universal appeal (broad bandwidth) will 
>>> always lead to a compromise.
>>> 
>>> De Steve Ve6wz.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From Babcocks iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 27, 2018, at 7:25 PM,   wrote:
 

Re: Topband: VU2GSM webSDR use

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have been watching this scenario since the summer of 1959; it's like service 
in a combat theater. Nobody plays by the accords of the Geneva Convention. It 
only matters who is still standing the next day..

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG 1959 to 1998

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 14, 2018, at 6:39 PM,  
>  wrote:
> 
> It was interesting to observe the EU stations (and a few JA)  that used 
> stateside remotes to work the K1N/Navassa operation on TB.  It's rather 
> obvious when the din of EU stations is a few db above the noise and an IZ1 
> station comes along and is suddenly 40db/S9.  Of course there is nothing 
> illegal or even immoral about that so long as the QSO is not used for DXCC (I 
> would guess they were).  It will be interesting to observe things with Bouvet.
>73. . . Dave, W0FLS
> 
> -Original Message- From: Steven R Daniel, D.D.S.
> Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:15 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: VU2GSM webSDR use
> 
> Good evening Paul. I cannot speak for your personal remote but I can tell you 
> the rules at RHR: you identify the state (or grid if on FT8 or JT65) of the 
> station from which you are transmitting. Those are the rules under which you 
> agree to operate. And that is the only warning you receive. Break the rules 
> and you are off RHR and any funds you have paid are forfeit. Lee, Ray and the 
> rest of the RHR team don't kid around about that. They know how carefully 
> they are watched. Contrast that with the remotes someone just mentioned in 
> another post. Just follow the rules and try to have fun. Honestly, is it 
> really more fun to keep this thread going than to get on and work DX? If you 
> think it is, you are in the wrong hobby. 73, Steve, NN4T
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul 
> Christensen
> Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2018 12:28 PM
> To: 'Steve Babcock'; 'topband'
> Subject: Re: Topband: VU2GSM webSDR use
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Thanks. Word wrap prevented me from opening the file with your e-mail 
> messages but I copied the full URL into my browser and it did open. Possibly 
> he is using WebSDR more on 160m-80m, but from my experience on 40m, his 
> operating behavior -- and that of others calling him doesn’t seem to follow 
> his use of WebSDR on receive.  That's just my observation and it may change 
> in the future.
> 
> Since you mentioned VU2GSM, I made specific mention of him in my post, but it 
> applies equally to other VUs who are just as strong here LP in the morning, 
> including 4S7AB in Sri Lanka.
> 
> When using WebSDR, I think the ethical approach is to disclose the Rx 
> location when issuing a signal report -- and that goes for RHR users too. If 
> not defined in the report, then we should assume the op is listening from his 
> own station.  Now that I've opened that up, is there a similar ethical 
> dilemma if I am listening on my own remote station 30 miles, away?  How about 
> 500 miles away?
> 
> Paul, W9AC
> 
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Re: Topband: Hi-Z 160M 200' 8 Circle

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have a Waller Flag on a 40 foot boom at 95 feet that I use in 
DIVERSITY RECEIVE with a Hi-Z 8. It 's amazing to see how propagation 
changes from vertical to horizontal and back as time goes by... I have 
never heard this well...


73,

John, W4NU, Atlanta

K4JAG (1959 to 1998)


On 10/30/2017 12:20 PM, Doug Turnbull wrote:

Dear Friends,

  


 Last night was again an interesting time to listen to TB.I am
now pretty sure that the 8 circle will under the right circumstances
delivers a 30 dB Front to Back Ratio.The F/B can drop to about 22 dB as
well with 25 dB being most commonly observed.   It all depends on whether
the signals is strong enough to still be above the noise after this amount
of attenuation; what the noise floor itself is doing; beam heading and of
course the angle at which the signal is arriving.I can tell you that the
beam pattern is amazingly sharp especially when you consider this is top
band.I have seen up to 20 dB drop in a signal just by turning the
bearing 45 degrees.   Sometimes if I turn another 45 degrees the signal
remains the same, lowers or even goes back up two or three dB - this is to
be expected.   Imagine the help this is in a contest reducing QRM from
adjacent stations.

  


 Having said all of this, the eight circle can not change band
conditions.I have yet to hear JA but no one close by is working them
either.   I did hear Greenland working a string of JA stations but both
countries were on the grey line at the time.I tried to copy HL5IVL (call
?)for hours last night, but though I knew Kim was there and heard odd bits
from him he was too weak to call.   Yet some EU stations including LA were
working him with some stations reporting 59 on the cluster.Now I have
worked Kim many times in the past even copying reasonably well on the
inverted L TX antenna.   Still this is frustrating but I suppose it is also
160M.

  


  Saturday night, I was copying JT5DX with a true 57 signal through
all the EU noise on SSB.   He was great copy with me and I had to do this
through a contest with splatter and many stations calling on his frequency
as this is CQWW.   So I copy JT on SSB but not HL on CW.   Top band makes
you work for it.No doubt as the season progresses the JAs will be there
and I hope to work many.   When I had an 800 foot Beverage on JA there were
many winter evenings when I could not copy JA.

  


  It is hard to fully evaluate the Hi-Z 200' 160M 8 circle but my
impression is that it is significantly (74 degree lobe vs 52 degree lobe)
more directive than the previous 160 and 80 meter 114' foot diameter 8
circle.   The pattern is sharper and deeper.I do copy many signals with
this antenna which can not be copied with the TX antenna.   The noise level
drops from S4/5 to S0/1 when going from 160M inverted L (100' ft vertical
run) to the 160M only 8 circle.Signals also drop but again I copy
signals even in the clear with the 8 circle which can not be heard with the
TX antenna.   I have seen comparisons between this 8 circle and a 5 element
Yagi - they are not the same type of antenna and this comparison is a bit
"hoaky" but I can see the essence of it.

  


   On Saturday night there was an unusual high level noise from the
south and boy was it handy to be listening in a more northerly direction as
then this noise just dropped out.

  


I think that sometimes too much attention is paid to the RDF
factor of the RX antenna and not enough to directivity. You can model RDF
but testing is another matter.  Yes RDF and directivity are related but they
are not the same.   In a contest or when trying to work a DX station
operating simplex; the directivity is a great help.Of course as
mentioned above it is also a help when nulling noise from a given direction.

  


I am still waiting for a local friend to run tests at different
times of the day for directivity with.It would be helpful to get a
better idea of the front to back.

  


Presently a 80/40 meter Hi-Z interlaced (two four squares rather
than all 8 elements active simultaneously) 8 circle with delay optimized for
40 meters is being assembled at 120 feet distance from the 160M 8 circle.
According to Lee KTJR, this is more than adequate separation for the two
antennas.   This antenna also works on TB so when completed there will be
yet another report.

  


Unfortunately I went to the scratcher too early last night to
catch the 3C1.

  


 73 Doug EI2CN

  

  


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Re: Topband: 160 4 square

[John Harden, D.M.D]

I am fortunate in that I have a Hi-Z 8 and a Waller Flag on a 32 foot boom at 
95 feet. I use them in Diversity Receive with  K-3. The results has been 
excellent here in Atlanta using a 100 ft 45G shunt fed tower for TX.

73,

John, W4NU
Atlanta

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2017, at 4:50 PM, JC  wrote:
> 
> Hi Lee
> 
> 
> 
> I remember it very well, but my comparison with the 8 circle is compatible 
> with the RDF, the WF has 11.5 db and the 8 circle can be close to 13 db RDF 
> and it is a winner, that 1.5 db EDF does make a difference, based on  my 
> measurements, the improvement on signal to noise ratio could be 3 to 6 db 
> improvement. 
> 
> 
> 
> We slowly have more stations in land. Like K9CT( Illinois) and K9UWA 
> (Indiana), then we have Pennsylvania K3LR and WE3C, Wal in West Virginia 
> W8LRL and John W4UN in Georgia. The performance on 80m has being very solid 
> on all of them, on 160m very similar as well. I agree with you, there are 
> lots of things to learn about horizontal propagation on top band, every year 
> is somehow different. Beverages have been around for almost a century but the 
> WF for  only a decade and only one year and half on central states, nothing 
> in West coast yet.
> 
> My experience following several WF installations, is that depends on the 
> number of vertical structures on the site, some stations have difficult to 
> try to detune all towers. One point is common, good ground system is a must 
> and does help to keep common mode noise low.
> 
> 
> 
> The last six month has been quite difficult for me, but things are getting 
> back to normal. Bod will get his antennas very soon.  Family, Work and Radio  
> but health was been some complex with my vertigo problem.   I am really way 
> behind schedule here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 73’s
> 
> JC
> 
> N4IS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Lee STRAHAN [mailto:k7...@msn.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 12:46 PM
> To: n...@yahoo.com; JC ; 'GaryK9GS' ; 
> 'Greg' ; 'topband' 
> Subject: RE: Topband: 160 4 square
> 
> 
> 
>   Good morning all,
> 
>  What I can tell you about the two antennas for 160 meter receiving is 
> that as many have said before, you cannot have too many receiving antennas 
> for 160 meters. Before Dale N4NN became ill and passed, Dale and I maintained 
> near daily contact. Dale had the Hi-Z 8 element with very little local noise. 
> We always quietly compared his station with what you were reporting JC. As 
> near as I could tell in the Florida area the two antennas were very close to 
> each other. Most often both antennas would hear the same signals. 
> 
>  There are a couple more contest stations that actually have both a 
> horizontal Waller flag and a Hi-Z 4-8pro or 8A 8 circle. In one case the 
> verticals are the preferred and in the other the word is you need both 
> antennas. My opinion, I think it depends quite a bit on station location. 
> That is, I think on stations near the ocean coasts the horizontal Waller flag 
> hears very well. Again, my opinion but I don’t think it works as well in the 
> mid lands or receiving over long stretches of land. Eventually we will have 
> enough history to really know for sure if one or the other is better. Again, 
> there is likely advantages to either one at different times or locations. 
> Suffice to say there is lots left to be learned
> 
>In that regard, some stations have reported the Hi-Z full sized 8 circle 
> to not quite have enough sensitivity in really quiet background noise areas. 
> I have developed a means to reduce the noise figure of that array very 
> significantly and the first beta test users are reporting a definite 
> improvement to the standard Hi-Z 200 foot 8 circle on 160 meters for those 
> fortunate enough to have a really quiet location.
> 
> Lee   K7TJR
> 
> 
> 
> From: Bob Kupps [mailto:n...@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 5:58 AM
> To: JC  >; 'Lee STRAHAN' 
>  >; 'GaryK9GS'   >; 'Greg'   >; 'topband'   >
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160 4 square
> 
> 
> 
> Well I ordered one about half a year ago so if it ever comes I will be able 
> to compare it directly with my HiZ 8 circle array and get a definitive 
> answer. We have no local noise here only propagated tropical QRN.
> 
> 
> 
> 73 Bob HS0ZIA
> 
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Re: Topband: RBOG installation

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I get them from Home Depot imthe garden shop...

73,

John, W4NU

On 4/25/2017 2:17 PM, Brian Pease wrote:

Google "garden staples ebay".  $11.50/100 free shipping.

On 4/25/2017 12:54 PM, James Denneny wrote:
My garden tractor lawn mower ate one of my RBOG's.  I thought 2.5 
inch blade
height was sufficient but the updraft from the mower deck lifted the 
wire

into the blade.


Yes, I can raise blade cut to 3 inches.  I prefer a closer cut for 
neatness.
However, I am contemplating pinning the wire with DXE ground staples 
every 5
to 10 ft versus burying the wire an inch into the soil.  I am 
concerned the

latter approach might defeat signal reception.


Comments?


Jim K7EG

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Re: Topband: 160 Power

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

If you want to work the rare ones on Top Band low power is pointless... 
You are simply banging your head against the wall... It takes maximum 
power, great receiving antennas and a good transmitting antenna. I 
really starting hearing well when I began using a rotary FLAG at 95 feet 
in DIVERSITY RECEIVE with a Hi-Z 8 Array...


73,


John, W4NU

K4JAG (1959 to 1998)


On 3/20/2017 12:25 PM, rick darwicki via Topband wrote:

In contests I call a lot of guys barefoot first and kick on the amp as needed. 
Problem is usually a guy running full power can be heard out here but has an 
S-8 noise level and can't hear 100W..Yes you can work a lot of DX with low 
power, but as an ex-QRP club member I learned life if too short, 9 to go for 
DXCC on 160 and sweating it.
5U and TU can't hear me thru the pile up but I'll bet they can copy if there 
was nobody else on.
Tried JT65 and it seems CW work also work when it works.Bottom line is you 
typically need power on the low bands to overcome the other guys noise. Rick 
N6PE==
There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky




   From: "topband-requ...@contesting.com" 
  To: topband@contesting.com
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 9:11 AM
  Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 171, Issue 17

Send Topband mailing list submissions to

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Today's Topics:

   1. Digital modes on TB and power required (Jim Jim)
   2. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (wb6r...@mac.com)
   3. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (HAROLD SMITH JR)
   4. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (Mike Waters)
   5. Re: JT65 Power and bandwidth (Rob Atkinson)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 21:14:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Jim 
To: List-Topband 
Subject: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID: <1176951029.186017.1489972452...@connect.xfinity.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Guys,

First of all in many cases the reason we need really high power on any mode is 
because other hams on the band are using it and they cover us up... so it is 
mine is bigger than yours.  Now to be fair that is not always the case I know 
but it happens far too much.  Since we are in the years of the bottom of the 
solar cycle we actually may need more power.  Also you can not compare doing 
meteor scatter or EME work with HF work.  There you absolutely need power 
unless you have stacked 18 element beams or something.  But I have seen very 
very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done EVEN on 160M.  and NO I 
don't run my RX with a wide open front end I have an IC 7300 and I trim my RX 
and TX filters to a reasonable width based on the mode I am running.  Common 
sense (and good engineering principals) teach you if you cut the RX bandwidth 
the signal goes up in strength. You have only to try that with CW to learn 
that.and for those of you that don't understand the princi

p

  al of RX front end overload try having a neighbor 4 miles away as the crow 
files who is trying to call the same DX you are wanting to work he can be half 
a kHz away and still give you problems even with a good RX. Now you guys with 
the really big antennas can mitigate some of this but us little pistols have 
only once choice ... wait until you neighbor is done.  And to be neighborly 
both my neighbor and I do just that.  Something to also consider when you run 
any digital mode even RTTY and you do it through a sound card you should not be 
drawing ANY.. not even a little ALC and if you do you not only will make it 
hard for others to copy you but you could easily cause all kinds of splatter on 
the band, you have only to listen to some to the signal on 40 and 20 meters to 
see this.

I am not saying any of this to flame or inflame anyone it is simply the way it 
is. High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.


Doubt me?  Set your transceiver up on WSPR and set it to 20w  and find out.  
When TB was open I was heard all over the world with that power .. and yes even 
VK.  If all of this is not convincing then follow the FCC rules .. use only the 
power necessary to do that job


Oh by the way many of these digital modes are high duty cycle and could do 
damage to your transceiver.


Jim



On the higher bands, low power generally gets the job done. But digital
folks on 160 need to rethink a few things. Ideally, we should 

Re: Topband: [TowerTalk] What's heating up ?

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

For a while I was cooking vacuum variables in my 160 meter Omega match 
network as well as SO-239's es "N" female connectors...


I couldn't figure out what the problem was?.

So I checked the line from the shack to the network... It was a 1/4 
quarter wavelength line...


The problem was due to a voltage/current node at the line termination..

This is a well known phenomenon in electromagnetic theory. I added about 
20 feet to the line and the problem disappeared!


  * /Standing waves/are waves of voltage and current which do not
propagate (i.e. they are stationary), but are the result of
interference between incident and reflected waves along a
transmission line.
  * A/node/is a point on a standing wave of/minimum/amplitude.
  * An/antinode/is a point on a standing wave of/maximum/amplitude.
  * Standing waves can only exist in a transmission line when the
terminating impedance does not match the line’s characteristic
impedance. In a perfectly terminated line, there are no reflected
waves, and therefore no standing waves at all.
  * At certain frequencies, the nodes and antinodes of standing waves
will correlate with the ends of a transmission line, resulting
in/resonance/.
  * The lowest-frequency resonant point on a transmission line is
where the line is one quarter-wavelength long. Resonant points
exist at every harmonic (integer-multiple) frequency of the
fundamental (quarter-wavelength).

Since I fixed the problem the network tunes more smoothly. The 1000 pfd 
vacuum variable to ground is tuned with a reversible 12 VDC, 1 RPM 
motor. The other 1000 pfd vacuum variable is in series with the OMEGA 
arm and is only adjustable locally


73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG, 1959 to 1998



On 3/13/2017 12:41 PM, Guy Olinger wrote:

Once you know the problem is the cap, then you need to get really serious
about the cap. Caps in RF tuning networks are stressed applications.

Decide if you ever want to use it for anything except short and separated
cycles, like calling DX. If you get into contests, or ragchew for hours
with relatives or friends, you need to beef up.

Use your junkbox to tune up the network at 25 watts so you know what the
values are, and then go get something serious that will take what your
model says is needed for 5 kW, something with dissipation, etc, way in
excess of "ideal conditions" predicted by a network model. Do **not** just
barely cover 1.5 kW in your calculating.

Caps in tuning networks can wind up carrying many times the current
specified in models, as you tune away from "center" frequencies, or
experience wandering environment, like Z moving with wind, or rain
saturated ground, or trying to move up the band by switching a tuner in the
shack.

If you do QRO, get a vacuum cap or create the value with three or four
parallel ceramic doorknobs of the HEC HT50 variety for values of 500 pF or
less. The Russian flat doorknobs are probably the best for 3300 or 2200 pf
specifications. Most of the pictures have kBap (kVA) numbers on them.

If you can't locate **manufacturer** current ratings or Russian kBap
numbers, then don't use or don't buy. Invest in caps you KNOW are rated.
A contest will find you out if you go cheep, and heat often is run-away,
where increasing heat increases resistance. And then you're toast, because
the heat has quite possibly changed the value and characteristics of the
cap.

Prices have been going up on caps, and you may easily spend $100 or more to
get fixed caps that will do the job without heating up.

Don't ask me how I know this.  :>)  But I won't ever go cheep on tuner caps
again.

73, Guy K2AV

On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 9:42 AM Steve London  wrote:


The characteristics of the doorknob are unknown. It's a junk box
special, with all of the lettering faded. Found an interesting article
on the web by I0IJ on RF vs. HF capacitors. I'll have to try
experimenting with more caps from the junk box.

Thanks for the suggestions.

73,
Steve, N2IC


On 03/12/2017 11:01 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:

Garys suggestion is right on. I assume from the the cap you describe

that its a doorknob type. If so be sure it is RF rated and not a HV type
used in power supplies, Total different characteristics.

Jim
W7ouu

- Original Message -
From: "Gary Schafer" 
To: n...@arrl.net, "Topband" ,

towert...@contesting.com

Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 4:00:42 AM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What's heating up ?

Probably the capacitor. Try 2 or 3 smaller values in parallel to make

your

2200pf. Then see if the drift is the same.

Or the coil wire size is too small.

73
Gary  K4FMX


-Original Message-
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
Steve London
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:42 PM
To: Topband; towert...@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] What's heating up ?

I am experimenting with the N4KG reverse 

Re: Topband: FW: Hi-Z Around Trees

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have a Hi-Z 4-8 PRO down the hill in a flood plain by the creek. I had 
the area bush-hogged out but there are trees everywhere. It works great 
and is in the smaller circle configuration with an 85 ft diameter spacing..


It compares with my Waller Flag up the hill on a 45G 100 ft Tower at 95 
feet though the FLAG is a better long haul antenna with its horizontal 
polarization.
The flag has a 40 foot boom and is fed with with 100 ohm Twinax to the 
transformer at the tower base. From there I run LMR-600 to the shack 
where I have the stellar N4IS pre-amplifier with 40 dB of amplification. 
The FLAG is turned with a TIC Ring Rotor.


It's good to have both...

K1ZM states in his 160 book that it's best to have as many RX antennas 
as possible.


73,

John, W4NU
Atlanta, GA


On 11/14/2016 5:21 PM, Jeff AC0C wrote:
Sorry to hear that.  But to avoid confusion for the guy asking about 
the trees case, we should be crystal clear that houses (which are 
filled with metal stuff) and antennas (made of usually resonant + 
metal stuff) are in a *completely different category* than a minimally 
interacting thing like a tree, especially when it's several feet from 
the antenna.


73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie

-Original Message- From: Joe Galicic
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 3:54 PM
To: p...@paulferguson.us ; topband@contesting.com
Cc: k7...@msn.com
Subject: Re: Topband: FW: Hi-Z Around Trees

I could never get my hiz 2-3 (3 element,4 directions) working on my 
small quarter acre lot.  Too close to trees, houses and antennas.  
Worked with

Lee for a long time trying.  No luck.  N3HEE


Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App

-Original Message-

From: p...@paulferguson.us
To: topband@contesting.com
Cc: k7...@msn.com
Sent: 2016-11-14 9:49:58 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: FW: Hi-Z Around Trees

Lee,

Thanks for the guidance.

I plan to use 20-foot fiberglass tube with a wire down the center for
Hi-Z array elements. Would you expect sensitivity to nearby trees to be
about the same for these wire elements versus aluminum tube elements.

73,
Paul
K5ESW





  Greetings Top-Banders, I have been away for a couple days, sorry for
  the late comments.
The fact is, for me there is no definitive answer to the effect of
trees on the Hi-Z arrays. I have made tests measuring phase shifts
and amplitude changes with a variety of objects around these
elements. My original thoughts after the tests were that any tree or


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Re: Topband: active antenna height

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have a Hi-Z 4-8 PRO. It is a real horse on vertically polarized signals. To 
supplement this I also have a Waller Flag on a 40 ft boom at 95 feet
turned by a TIC ring rotor. It is a super hoss on horizontally polarized 
signals. This fall I plan to use them with diversity receive. 

73,

John, W4NU

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 4:30 PM, Hardy Landskov  wrote:
> 
> Hi Lee, Gary, et al
> In my opinion trying to roll your own as far as the electronics goes is "a
> dollar chasing a dime" mentality. I have a Hi-Z 8 Circle and is clearly the
> best 160 rx antenna I have ever used. When you use this antenna for the
> first time you will never think about your VISA card HIHI.
> I want to thank Lee for all you help in constructing, trouble shooting, etc.
> My elements are about 21 feet and I use the new amp if that is what it's
> called with the enclosures I got from Mouser.
> 73 Hardy N7RT/4
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee
> STRAHAN
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 3:58 PM
> To: g...@ka1j.com; topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: active antenna height
> 
> Hello Gary and all,  The answer to your question depends on how quiet your
> location is. If you have an extremely quiet location I would go with another
> section of tubing for 23 feet overall with the Hi-Z. If your location is
> pretty normal for noise then 18  feet or so will be fine with the Hi-Z
> array. There are times here in the early morning when the band noise drops
> below my array noise for a short period of time and I have been using 20
> foot elements. 
>  Another point to consider is 3/4 inch fiberglass rod is easy to get and
> has proven strong enough for element insulators.  Adding a few feet of 3/4
> tubing to each element would make your insulators much easier to construct
> and increase array gain. You can always add more length later as you see the
> need.
>Four inches of overlap has seemed to work well.
>   Lee   K7TJR
> 
> 
>> I've decided to make the plunge and buy one of the 8 element active 
>> arrays
> for 160M-40M. Looking at the price for the antenna kit, it's just too much
> considering the cost of the electronics, so I need to roll my own.
> 
> I was thinking of getting the Telescoping Aluminum Tubing that comes in 6'
> lengths from Texas Towers; .375", 5" & 6.25". If I slide each inside 6",
> that'll come to a 17' tall element. Is that sufficient height? Would adding
> another 2-3 feet make any difference with these kind of active antennas?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
> _
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> 
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Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: K5P good job !

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Great to hear the dialogue!! I have been chasing DX since the summer of 
1959... Those who don't get through are never happy... It takes big 
antennas, maximum legal power, and some operating skill.


It sort of like being in a combat theater. It only matters who is still 
standing the next day. The enemy does, nor never has, adhered to the 
accords of the Geneva convention...


We all forget to go split sometimes. Naturally that provokes a barrage 
of "Foxtrot United's". I never take it personally..


73 ,

John, W4NU
K4JAG, 1959 to 1998

On 1/18/2016 1:40 PM, Larry via Topband wrote:

hi roger,


just what do you mean by "calling on top of someone else"? of course they are since a 
rare station creates so many callers that it is impossible to find a calling frequency that is 
clear. even if it seems clear doesn't mean that it actually is. there are probably tons of stations 
that you can't hear. for those who do not have the ability to "dual receive" do you 
expect them to check their TX frequency before transmitting? i would guess that you have never been 
on the DX end of the pile up.


if you want a clear frequency then try this- if the DX announces he is 
listening between 14205 and 14210 then cluster spot him listening on 14209.5. 
80% of the callers will move up which gives you the best chance when you call 
between 14205 and 14206. it's a PILE UP my friend, almost everything goes.


also, would you please include your call sign to the comments that you make. i 
am replying to roger who?


73,
larry
n7dd

The big problem is that this "system" works! It's simple statistics. The more
times you
send your call, the better chance of the DX picking it out of a pileup.

I don't think the people that do this give a rats behind if they're calling on
top of
someone else. They are like people who cut in line ahead of you. It's all about
them!

73, Roger




-Original Message-
From: Roger D Johnson 
To: topband 
Sent: Mon, Jan 18, 2016 3:45 pm
Subject: Re: Topband: K5P good job !

The big problem is that this "system" works! It's simple statistics. The more
times you
send your call, the better chance of the DX picking it out of a pileup.

I don't think the people that do this give a rats behind if they're calling on
top of
someone else. They are like people who cut in line ahead of you. It's all about
them!

73, Roger


On 1/18/2016 10:00 AM, mstang...@comcast.net wrote:

When someone is doing something wrong we should not "out" or embarrass them.

You should try to settle the situation offline without leaving any bad feelings.

If you know the offender you should discuss it with him (or her) person to 
person. Be diplomatic.

Don't lecture to them, discuss it with them. You have noticed they are doing 
something which interferes with good operating practices and also mention that 
other listeners have noted the fact.

If you cannot contact the person you can mention the offense on a contesting or 
DX'ing forum such as this

I find it is better to show them the way.

Mike N2MS





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Topband: Antennas

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Just had a big antenna party at W4NU...

Ramping up the stack...

I have the following antennas for sale:

5 el M2 20 meter on a 44 ft boom

6 el M2 15 meter on a  44 ft boom

5 el Telrex 10 on a 23 ft boom

3 el Telrex 15 on a 17 ft boom

3 el Hy-Gain 10 on an 8 ft boom

3 el Telrex 10 on a 13 ft boom

TWO (2) Tail Twister rotators both rebuilt by Rotor Doctor

TWO (2) Ham IV rotators

Two (2) Ham IV control boxes

One (1) Tail Twister control box

One 2800 M2 rotator with control box

NEED TO MOVE THIS GEAR OUT!!! Went to bigger'n better.  Not getting out 
of Ham Radio..


Need reasonable offers, but WILL NOT GIVE IT AWAY!!

73,

John, W4NU
Atlanta
Cell:  404-210-3777




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Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I hold no malice against KK6ZM whatsoever!! After all this is only a hobby.

Several years ago I was laying the pipe on 80 CW chasing a rare one with 
marginal copy.. I got an e-mail from a DXer saying that I was calling 
out of turn. I could have replied with a standard military FOXTROT 
UNITED but I did not. I simply said that in the heat of battle one 
sometimes forgets..


This is not a capital offense... Let's move on from this nonsense..

Many decades ago Buck Joyner (W4TO, SK about 1970) was on 20 AM. A DXer 
came in and said W4TO, you are wide... Buck came back and said I'm 
not wide, I'm just loud with that pair of 4-1,000A's!!!


73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)



On 2/3/2015 5:30 PM, Bill and Liz wrote:
Perhaps the REAL problem began with the guys in the chat room urging 
him on when common sense would have dictated that he refrain from 
transmitting until K1N cleared the field for NA callers.  I had my gut 
full of chat rooms when a topband friend was flamed morning after 
morning on the ON_by a few topband gurus.  Perhaps this same 
crew urged KK6ZM on to call when he did when he otherwise might have 
waited.  Too bad he was pilloried on the reflectorhe was only one 
of several who were guilty of a multitude of offenses last night and 
this morning.


Bill VE3CSK


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Re: Topband: VK3ZL SK today

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

On 7/8/2014 8:42 AM, Cal Jeanroy wrote:

exchanging emails.  I will surely miss his friendship and his signal on
I will miss Bobby. He was a nice person. Many days during the summer of 
2013 he was the only signal on top band. We had quite a few 160 contacts 
back then...


It is a tragedy to lose him to this terrible disease. I lost my own XYL 
of 30 years to a rare cancer in March of this year. May God rest his soul..


73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

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Re: Topband: Nostalgic openings

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I had one around 1960 driving a pair of 811A's. It was wide as a barn of 
course but I wrked a lot of DX with it using a Hornet TB-500 tribander 
and NC-57C receiver..


73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)


On 1/18/2014 3:19 PM, James Rodenkirch wrote:





By the bye, the e-mail from Don, WD8DSB, reminded me of an old Globe Scout 
double side band rig I owned YEARS ago:
Globe Sidebander DSB-100:  transmitter.
It's ad appeared in  MAY 58 QST;  price $119.95 kit, $139.95 wired; 40 watts 
AM, 50 watts CW, 100 watts DSB; bandswitching 80 thru 10 meters;  6CL6 crystal 
oscillator, 6CL6 buffer/doubler, pair 6DQ6A final amplifier; 12AX7 speech 
amplifier, 12AX7 driver, 6AQ5 modulator, 6AL5 speech clipper, 5U4GB rectifier; 
weight 30 lbs.
Go here for a pic: 
https://www.google.com/search?q=globe+sidebander+dsb-100tbm=ischsource=iuimgil=sU-DHOHX30gNzM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTD2FiUvvky-Ujm-wJiMEew4QzUvbI0CQgbZHBu3ikMSaLp2Otg%253B640%253B428%253BjgUGacNNUJMasM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.oldtuberadio.com%25252Fglobe-sidebanderdsb-100%25252Fsa=Xei=SuHaUsa_MqPuyAGt6IHYCQved=0CDoQ9QEwAgbiw=1511bih=714dpr=0.9#facrc=_imgdii=_imgrc=sU-DHOHX30gNzM%253A%3BjgUGacNNUJMasM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.oldtuberadio.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F04%252FGLOBE-SIDEBANDER-DSB-100.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.oldtuberadio.com%252Fglobe-sidebanderdsb-100%252F%3B640%3B428
Sigh.good memories of WRL and HeathkitJim Rodenkirch K9JWV  

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Re: Topband: Insulator problems

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Because of a current/voltage node I was toasting SO-239's (FORGET Type
N's) I went to Amphenol Type HN connectors in the 160 tuning box
at the base of the tower. It NEVER arcs now, ever.

http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/hn.asp?N=0sid=52AE42803C4E617F;

They are not cheap, but they work great...

73,

John, W4NU


On 12/16/2013 11:16 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote:
 You might consider polycarbonate. (GE calls it Lexan)
 
 It's very strong both mechanically and electrically, and it's machinable.
 
 73,
 Charlie, K4OTV
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim GM
 Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:58 AM
 To: topband
 Subject: Re: Topband: Insulator problems
 
 Not sure what your replacing if it is a round insulator piece for 2 pipes
 or stand off type insulator for matching section or what?
 
 Try fiberglass rod material or Teflon blocks depends on application.
  Teflon blocks were used on heavy industrial equipment when shipped so the
 equipment can be slide over the floor.
 
 Bird poop will short things out no matter what you use!!
 
 
 

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Topband: 160 meter activity

[John Harden]

160 is really picking up here.

I called CQ on 1824.5 this morning here in Atlanta at 1030 Z. VK3ZL came 
back to me with a 599 report and I gave him an honest 579. The band has 
been open for some time at this QTH. However, the RX antenna is the Hi-Z 
4-8 PRO, 8 vertical array (with 4 antennas active at any time). No doubt 
I hear signals others cannot hear. I do HIGHLY recommend it..


73,

John, W4NU
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: Gus, W4BPD

[John Harden]

Interesting to hear about Gus Browning, W4BPD

I first worked Gus around 1962 (51 years ago) when I was a college 
student at Georgia Tech. I have cards from him at many great DX QTH's 
for the time...


FR7ZC/J, ZD9AM, 9U5BH, 9U5ZZ, etc. He always had a big signal

At the time I was running a Viking Valiant to a Hornet TB-500 
Tri-Bander. That was plenty of power at the time except when I came up 
against W4DQH or especially W4TO (both running a pair of 4-1,000's) to 
big mononanders. After upgrading to the Viking 500 I did even better...


Unfortunately I QRTed fer XYL's es College and missed quite a few good 
ones...


73,

John, W4NU
(K4JAG 1959 to 1998)
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: 160

[John Harden]

160 was wide open to VK this morning around sunrise in Atlanta. I was 
589 at VK3ZL  he was a solid 579 on an Inverted V at 90 ft. I was TX on 
the vertical of course. K4IQKJ es W5XZ in TX were also in there wrking 
Bobby. Cudn't use the Hi-Z 8 vertical array as it was recently toasted 
by lightening...


73,

John, W4NU
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: de IV3PRK

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Luis,

That will be fine. I will pick you up at Ham Radio Outlet on Buford 
Highway at 10:00 am next Monday, June 24th. I'll bring you back to my 
QTH for lunch and I'll show you the rig and antennas. Later in the 
afternoon I'll take you to the airport.


73,

John, W4NU


On 6/18/2013 10:47 PM, Stefano Mansutti wrote:

Hi John,

greetings from Quito.
Unfortunately I am unable to send e-mails through my server in Italy ( 
but I receive everything regularly), so I'm using my son's PC.


I saw on Google map that you are living North of Atlanta town, on the 
opposite side of the airport.
Thus would be easier for you to pick me up at Ham Radio Outlet on 
Buford Hwy ?
I have plenty of time in the morning and could get there by myself 
with a taxi, before 10 AM.


But I never been in Atlanta before, so I 'm not sure about those 
distanceswhat do you think ?


Many thanks and 73

Luis IV3PRK

--
*Stefano Mansutti*
*SIDERTECH*
*//*

Pasaje El Jardin 168 y Av. 6 de Diciembre
Ed. Century Plaza 1 - Of.23
Quito - ECUADOR

Tel:   +593 2 093
Mob: +593 992934650



email: s.mansu...@sidertech.com mailto:s.mansu...@sidertech.com
www.sidertech.com http://www.sidertech.com/
Skype: stefano.mansutti

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All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Wall warts

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I am not offended at all relative to the fine whiskey deal. To begin 
with I'm too busy to worry about trivia such as that.


On 5/7/2013 7:10 PM, ZR wrote:


- Original Message -
I dont care for forced signatures...period. Just more useless 
bandwidth to be erased when replying so as to not aggravate you with 
untrimmed messages.


Carl




The fine whiskey signature has been there for a long time.  I am
surprised this has become an issue.

It was suggested by one of the members of this list and I thought it was
funny and appropriate and not
the least bit offensive.,  I have changed it now to something that uses
many of the same words - but
hopefully is not the least bit offensive to anyone.

Tree

On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Wes Attaway (N5WA) 
wesatta...@bellsouth.net wrote:


This has nothing to do with wall warts.



I am just testing to see where that fine whiskey signature is coming
from.



- Wes Attaway (N5WA) ---
1138 Waters Edge Circle, Shreveport, LA 71106
318-797-4972 (Office) - 318-393-3289 (Cell)
Computer Consulting and Forensics
-- EnCase Certified Examiner ---



All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
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All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3162/5805 - Release Date: 05/07/13



All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
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All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
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Re: Topband: Problem with compression F connectors on Quad RG-6

[John Harden]

On 5/4/2013 2:07 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
I'm having a repeated weird problem with compression F connectors on 
quad-shield RG6.  When I connect a short length (say 4 feet) of cable 
to my MFJ-259B, I would expect R650.  Instead, when I wiggle the 
coax, occasionally I see the display change to R=0 and X= several 
hundred ohms at 1.8 MHz.  This makes no sense to me - the R implies 
ashort, but where's all the X coming from?  The problem seems to vary 
with the same connector and different PL-259 to F adapters, which 
makes me wonder what might be happening inside the adapters, but I 
can't imagine anything producing this result.  I have also been 
unsuccessful in detecting a short using a simple DC multimeter.


I;'m wondering if I should go through my RX antennas and replace all 
the F connectors and particularly the F to 259 adapters with something 
else, but what?  BNCs?


Anyone have any wisdom?

I never have problems with F connectors. I buy quality Belden RG-6/U 
Quad Shield from ACK Radio in Atlanta as well as the right F 
connectors, and use a quality compression tool. There are several F 
connector sizes. The right one goes on the cable rather easily if it is 
stripped properly...

All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: VK6HD SK

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Sitting here in the terminal at LAX having breakfast. Very sorry to hear abt 
Mike.

73,

John, W4NU

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Jon Zaimes AA1K j...@verizon.net wrote:

Very sad to hear of Mike's passing.

Flipping back through my old logs, handwritten on something called 
paper, it appears our first QSO with Mike was on 40 meter CW in January 
of 1980. But it is the second QSO I recall most, on 80 CW on the last 
day of that month. We had had several exchanges when Mike reported my 
signal had suddenly dropped several S units but he still had solid copy. 
Looking up, I realized my manual antenna switch had been left with my 
new Beverage receiving antenna connected to the transmitter, and Mike 
was still hearing me with my 25 watts going into a wire only a few feet 
off the ground. We both had a laugh when I told him what happened and, 
back on my real transmit antenna, we carried on at full strength for a 
few minutes more.

It was those golden ears of Mike's that gave us so many hundreds of 
contacts on Topband -- the first in January of 1981 and the last 32 
years later. He was there keeping the vigil, frequently the only DX 
coming through. He'd drop in for a quick hello, just to let us know the 
band was open -- halfway around the world -- when there was no other 
sign it was open to anywhere. We'd swap notes on the weather, band 
conditions and pass along tips on DX the other might need. Often he'd 
stop back a half hour later with a new signal report. In the years 
before packet and the Internet, and even after, he'd drop in quickly to 
let me know one I needed in his part of the world was just a few kHz up 
or down the band, and I'd do likewise.

We will miss our dear friend. Mike helped keep this band alive for so many.

73 and GL DX,

Jon AA1K
All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector
All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
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Topband: K4CKD

[John Harden]

Dennis had a long battle with prostate cancer.

Dennis Peterson YORK - Dennis George Peterson, 67, died Monday, March 
11, 2013, at Agape Hospice in Rock Hill, S.C. The funeral will be 2 
p.m. Thursday at Bratton Funeral Home, with the Rev. Thomas B McPhail 
officiating. Burial will be at Lakeview Memory Gardens. Visitation 
will be 1 to 2 p.m. Thursday, at Bratton Funeral Home. Condolences may 
be made at www.brattonfuneralhome.com http://www.brattonfuneralhome.com.


73,

John, W4NU


Read more here: 
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/heraldonline/obituary.aspx?n=dennis-petersonpid=163617398fhid=9012#storylink=cpy


All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: Vacuum Variables

[John Harden]

Just reading all of the comments on vacuum variables... There are 
many ways to do this...


I still believe in vacuum variables as they are essentially foolproof.


The good thing is that they can be remotely tuned using a 1 RPM 12 VDC 
motor that is reversible by changing polarity. In my situation the 
measured SWR is always flat at the rig and at the base of the tower...


http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0keywords=cra201-nd

They'll handle just about any power level you can come up with to boot.

A great source is MAX-Gain Systems here in Metro Atlanta (WB4GNT)

 http://www.mgs4u.com/RF-Microwave/vacuum-variable-capacitors-200.htm

He has a treasure trove of vacuum variables In addition, I have NO 
financial connection to him...


*I GAVE UP ON AIR VARIABLES... They don't take the power well...

You will need a waterproof enclosure... Do it this way and you won't 
have to go back later!!


http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/645/2077.pdf
*
73,

John, W4NU
Atlanta
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: Detuning shunt fed towers

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I have a 100 ft 45G, shunt fed tower with stacked monobanders for 80 -10 
meters. This includes a 24 ft mast with 12 feet out the tower top. I do 
not even worry about detuning it.
The shunt (4 wire) cage only goes up to 30 feet due to monobanders down 
to about 35 feet. It requires a 2000 pfd vacuum variable in series and a 
1000 pfd vacuum variable to ground (Omega match) to resonate the system. 
The series capacitor is motor driven by a 1 RPM, 12 VDC motor. The SWR 
remains flat over the band measured at the match and in the shack. I 
have right at 40 radials on ground. At this point the curve becomes 
asymptotic..


With an Amphenol Type HN connector there is never any flashover. 
SO-239's did not cut it. Type N is even worse.


My Hi-Z 4-8 PRO RX antenna is over 100 feet away and there appears to be 
little interaction. If you do the math there should be interaction but 
there is so little real interaction that I simply disregard it The 
guys at Hi-Z will tell you there is very little difference between the 
4-8 PRO and the 8 el array that is in a 200 ft diameter circle. They 
have both up. The decrease in beam width between the two is 
inconsequential to me


I can now hear about anything that is on compared to others in my area, 
and can work it quickly if I can hear it. The Hi-Z array is that 
good The waters of the sea have parted for me on top band.


73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)
___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Topband: Corona

[John Harden]

I used to have up all Telrex monobanders ( and by the way they are still 
great antennas despite what some think). The 8 el 15 and the 5 el 20 all 
had corona balls at the end of the elements. These were designed years 
ago (company defunct about 1995)...


73,

John, W4NU
___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Re: Topband: 8877 Tube

[John Harden]

The Alpha 77-SX is a great amplifier with plenty of reserve. The plate 
voltage runs just under 4KV on the Hi-Power position. If you go to the 
larger transformers you are asking for trouble. The filter capacitor has 
to be changed to one with a 5 KV rating. When you do this you will push 
circuit components to their HV limit. There have been too many problems 
out there with those who have done this...


73,

John, W4NU

On 11/14/2012 9:56 PM, ZR wrote:
The only problem with pushing an 8877 or the 3CPX to or over the 4KV 
limit is that it enhances the chance of instability.


Carl
KM1H


- Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: 8877 Tube



Bob,

A non-issue.  Many of us have been running 8877s with Ep of 4KV.  For 
example, the typical no-load Ep of an Alpha 77Dx/Sx amp is right at 
the specified limit of 4KV.


Some owners have been converting their 8877 amps over to the 
3CPX1500A7 which has a much higher rated Ep since it was designed for 
pulsed service. Unless someone has access to a supply of pulse-rated 
tubes, I think it's waste of time unless the plate supply voltage is 
also increased.


Paul, W9AC


- Original Message - From: Chortek, Robert L 
robert.chor...@berliner.com

To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:56 PM
Subject: Topband: 8877 Tube


Wonder if someone can help with a technical question with the amp I 
use on 160 meters.


The Spec Sheet for the 8877 tube lists the Absolute Maximum Plate 
Voltage of 4000 Volts for the tube, and also says in typical 
operation the plate voltage is between 2700 and 3500 volts. In my 
amp (Ameritron AL-1500), the plate voltage is 3750.  My question is 
- should I be concerned (it's clearly below the maximum but above 
the range that is considered typical?   I just want to be sure I'm 
not adversely affecting the useful life of the tube.


Any help would be appreciated.

73,

Bob/AA6VB

___
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Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com


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Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Topband: 160 meter issues

[John Harden]

Fellow top banders,

I have been chasing DX since the age of 15 in 1959. I have pretty much 
seen it all. None of it really bothers me. It is only a hobby, and not a 
career. I just get on with great antennas, maximum legal power, and a 
few operating tricks I've picked up over the years. I work 'em and move on.


In the Army we used to say if you're still vertical at the end of the 
day it's been a great day. It's all up hill from there. That 
attitude comes from being in and out of the military from age 17 to age 60.


My best,

John, W4NU
Atlanta, GA
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Topband: PT0S

[John Harden]

Does anyone have info on when the PT0S logs will be up on the internet?
___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Topband: Conway reef

[John Harden]

I worked 3D2C on 160 at 1127 Z this morning (4 minutes before my sunrise 
in Atlanta)...


They had a good Q5 signal and were only copyable to the SW on the Hi-Z 
8-Circle array. This array has great F/B and excellent gain. I could not 
be any more pleased after trying many antennas that do not come close to 
it. It is a little over 100 feet from the transmit antenna and appears 
to work with very little interaction.


Note: This is a personal opinion and is NOT backed by a double blind 
scientific study or statistical analysis. I used these at Georgia Tech 
while in graduate school in the early 1970's. I felt pretty good when I 
received the M.S. degree there until I noticed the title of a Ph.D. 
dissertation completed by a fellow who graduated at the same time I did. 
It's title was:


An Analysis of Helicopter Wing Dampening Characteristics Using the 
Boltzman Transport Equation.  (In Aeronautical Engineering)


After seeing that I didn't feel so smart anymore. I could never 
forget that.


73,

John, W4NU
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Verticals for Hi-Z arrays

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I went ahead and bit the bullet and put up eight 23 foot telescoping 
aluminum verticals for the 8-Circle array. They give me stellar 
performance and do not bend over.


73,

John, W4NU
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: DX Engineering Preselector

[John Harden]

I just put in the above as it is the best one out there... However, when 
I put in the Array Solutions RF Limiter/Arrestor between the preselector 
and the K3 I get distortion in the signals. Any comments out there?

The RX antenna is a Hi-Z 8-Circle array.

73,

John, W4NU
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: DX Engineering Preselector

[John Harden]

Carl,

I bought the DX Engineering device because it has the best third order 
intercept. Just see W8JI's web site. Tom has a chart that compares TOI's 
for various devices. I trust his meaurements because they are based on 
facts and knowledge of the RF arena. They are not opinions and 
assertions as one hears often on the reflector...

When comparing receivers it tells us how well devices separate two 
closely placed signals. As you know it is a calculated value based on the
plot of Output power in dBm vs. Input power in dBm. It cannot be 
measured like selectivity.

The IP3 really tells us how well two signals 3-5 kHz apart can be 
copied. Tom's values are good enough for me.

This device replaces an ICE 160 only receive preamplifier.

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

On 8/24/2012 4:19 PM, ZR wrote:
 Why do you feel it is the best?

 Without knowing the circuit of the limiter I can just surmise that it 
 uses diodes or other non linear device to clip the input above a 
 certain level. Try it ahead of the preselector where the signal levels 
 are less.

 Carl
 KM1H


 - Original Message - From: John Harden jh...@bellsouth.net
 To: topband@contesting.com
 Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 3:44 PM
 Subject: Topband: DX Engineering Preselector


 I just put in the above as it is the best one out there... However, when
 I put in the Array Solutions RF Limiter/Arrestor between the preselector
 and the K3 I get distortion in the signals. Any comments out there?

 The RX antenna is a Hi-Z 8-Circle array.

 73,

 John, W4NU
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK


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___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: 2012/13 season opening up?

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

On 8/14/2012 1:47 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
 At Eu sunrise this morning, got an RBN spot from GW8IZR at 12 dB and
 right afterwards worked G4EIM for my first cross-pond for the season.
 Seems early, but I'll sure take it.  Bring it on.  73, Guy.
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 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

VK3ZL was 579 to 589 this morning at sunrise in GA using a Hi-Z 8-Circle 
RX array to the WEST. He gave me a 589. Freq 1824.5

73,

John, W4NU
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Lyme Desease

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

It is named for the Connecticut town where in the mid-1970's there was 
an epidemic of arthritis associated with skin erythema (redness), caused 
by the spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi. A spirochete causes syphillis.

It is transmitted  from rodents to people by tiny, hard deer ticks. */It 
is the major insect-borne disease in the USA./*

Like syphillis it has 3 stages:

1) An expanded area of redness with a necrotic center at the site of the 
tick bite.

2) Early spread via the blood system...

  a) secondary skin lesions

  b) moving around joint  muscle pain

  c) heart rhythm disturbances

  d) meningitis (inflammation of the lining of the brain)...

3) Two or three years later one sees a chronic arthritis and sometimes 
severe joint damage. There can be an encephalitis (brain 
inflammation) which can be
  mild to debilitating...

THIS IS A BACTERIAL INFECTION.. The damage is thought to be due to 
antibodies to the bacterial proteins that attack host tissues...


All in all... Not good!!

73,

John, W4NU







7/23/2012 8:45 PM, wa3...@comcast.net wrote:

 Frank,

Sorry to say it didnt work for me!  Two years ago this September I 
 contracted Lyme Desease and I had treated my clothing with Permethrin very 
 heavily... but what I didnt do was  take a shower when I came in.  Now to be 
 honest I live in the woods s what did I expect.  There is one thing that 
 Frank is definately right and I can attest to... Lyme desease is a life 
 changing experience and everyones experience is just a little different to be 
 sure but the infectious desease doctor said he had never seen a case as bad 
 as what I had.  Ya see most people get one red bullseyes at the site of the 
 bite I had the damn things all over my body  hundreds of bullseyes.  My body 
 temp dropped to 96 degrees and stayed there for weeks at a time and I got 
 extreme vertigo and drove very little for a year. I think my poor my wife was 
 about to kill me.. she said I should have been pregnant and given birth then 
 I could complain.. hu go figure.

 Ok so why say all of this ?  To tell you an ounce of prevention is worth a 
 pound of cure as the old people used to say. T here is a semi preventative, 
 take a shower immediately apon coming in the house and wash all your 
 clothing. These ticks are so small you will probably never see them and they 
 dont always bite you immediately..a shower is your best defense. ALso wear 
 lite colored clothing apparently they are not as attracted to it.  Lyme 
 desease is at epidemic levels in Maryland and on the east coast from Mass 
 down to about the northern end of NC.

 Above all else if you are bitten please go see an infectious desease doctor 
 as soon as you can get to him. It did take me over a year and a half but the 
 symptoms do eventually lessen to where you can live a nearly normal life but 
 you get flash backs occasionally for a few hours every once in a while.

 On the lighter side at least I wasnt hot that summer when we got the 100+ 
 temps. By the way.. ham radio was my salvation during that time even though I 
 co uld not do much antenna work.

 Live Long and Prosper

 Jim   WA3MEJ


 Bruce is correct that Beverage antenna installation and maintenance brings 
 on the risk of life changing Lyme disease. Lyme disease is present in many 
 .areas of the world, but particularly in the non-arid areas of the United 
 States, Canada and Europe.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease
 Permethrin treated clothing (socks, pants and long sleeve shirt) is 
 exceptionally effective at repelling ticks.
 http://sectionhiker.com/treating-your-clothes-with-permethrin
 Clothing can be purchased pretreated with Permethrin. Commercially treated 
 clothing remains effective after dozens of washings. Look for the trademarks 
 Insect Shield and Bug Shield in sporting goods stores or online:
 http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8keywords=insect+shield+clothingtag=googhydr-20index=apparelhvadid=7552570997hvpos=1t1hvexid=hvnetw=ghvrand=6295266011507505301hvpone=hvptwo=hvqmt=eref=pd_sl_e41pllg51_e
 73
 Frank
 W3LPL
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Interference with DSL, etc.

[John Harden]

A number of years ago I got fed up with the undependable ATT DSL. It was 
too crowded and generally too slow. I went to a full T-1 with a 
dedicated line. It is with Windstream out of Virginia. The service is 
excellent, and if you call them they can articulate in English and are 
very knowledgeable!!

ATT brings in their loop. Hence to an Adtran 608 T-1 modem and hence 
to a Link-Sys router. From there it goes to various ether-net switches 
via hard wired CAT5E cable pulled throughout the QTH to four different 
work stations

The rig does not phase the system.

I would never go back Internet packet and the ON4 chat literally 
flies...

  http://www.windstreambusiness.com/enterprise/data-solutions/t1-bundle/

73,

John, W4NU
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Reducing Noise in the Shack

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

Dear Topbanders,

I use an ICE Model 475-3 AC Line filter in the shack. It provides 
inductive isolation, overvoltage control, capacitive decoupling and 
interference control of both common mode and differential mode signals. 
It will handle 25 amp at 110 VAC.

Usually across the line capacitors are used to suppress differential 
mode noise (usually termed X-capacitors).

And, too, common mode choke coils are used to suppress common mode noise 
(in series); line bypass capacitors (Y-capacitors) supress common mode 
noise.

This unit really works.

73,

John, W4NU

On 6/21/2012 3:07 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 2:59 PM, DAVID CUTHBERT telegraph...@gmail.comwrote:

 The W7NQN line filter is a differential-mode filter. You need a filter that
 is designed for common-mode filtering.

 Dave WX7G

 This is from the web page advertisement:
 -
 Compare this with a Brand C filter which only handles common-mode
 interference problems.  The NQN AC power-line filters are optimized for
 common-mode and differential-mode filtering and have about 3 times the
 components of brand C.
 -

 Seems to specifically include common mode.

 See  http://arraysolutions.com/Products/nqnaclinefilter.htm

 73, Guy.
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 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK



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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Top Band Receive

[John Harden]

Most people do not have room for beverages... I have tried all of the 
compromise antennas for 160 including Ewe's, K9AY, short beverages, low 
dipoles, etc. To me it was an exercise in futility...

Go with the Hi-Z antennas. They are stellar... Triangle, 4-square or 
8-circle..You cannot lose! They work great, are cost effective and are 
well supported...

http://www.HiZantennas.com

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1950 to 1998)



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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: W4BPD and W9WNV

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I was on during those days with about 300 watts and a 3 el Yagi. I 
worked Gus at exotic places like FR7ZC/J, 9U5BH, 9U5ZZ  ZD9AM, etc. 
Ack, W4ECI, was his manager. I also remember Don Miller and his 
exploits. Unfortunately I QRTed about 1964 fer College es XYL's.. The 
later was probably a bad decision. Because of that I was not active 
again until 1971..

Don is out of confinement now and is back on as AE6IY. He started out in 
1962 as HL9KH and was a physician in the US Army Medical Corps in 
Korea His operating skills were amazing even back then...

73,

John, W4NU
(K4JAG 1959 to 1998)
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Radials on top band

[John Harden]

I can work anything I can hear on 160. That's the whole deal... If I 
can't hear it on the Hi-Z 4-square I can't work it..

I have a 45G 100 foot tower shunt fed with an Omega match of vacuum 
variables. I am always flat as the variable to ground is motor driven. I 
have 32 radials. At this point the curve starts to become 
asymptotic. But, I still plan to add 32 more before the next top band 
season

I've really enjoyed hearing all of the theory. It is in the books...all 
of it...

I have one book here entitled Electromagnetics by the late John Krause 
(W8JK, SK) of the EE department of Ohio State Univ. The book has all of 
the theory (if you can do calculus and differential equations) to 
substantiate the fact that 120 radials is optimal He goes way beyond 
opinions and assertions. All of his statements are guided by double 
blind scientific studies..

I had a quiz question at GA Tech eons ago. The question was why is the 
sky blue? You couldn't BS those guys there. It took 5 pages of calculus 
to answer it... It had to do with electrons going from one energy level 
to another

Go get 'em on top band..

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)


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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Gotham

[John Harden]

I had a Gotham 3 el 10 meter beam about 1960. It was a scam if there 
ever was. The instructions were to attach the center conductor and shield
about 6 inches apart on the driven element. Of course it was a dead 
short. There was no matching system at all. I realized quickly I had 
been duped!!

P.T. Barnum said there was a sucker born every so many seconds!!

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: 160 and radials

[John Harden]

I've really enjoyed reading all of the posts relative to the above 
subject... I really do not worry about radials any more...

I have a 100 foot 45G tower festooned with monobanders from 80 to 10 
meters. I use an Omega match on 160 with 32 radials of #14 stranded, 
insulated wire from Home Depot. The 2000 pfd vacuum variable is tuned 
with a 1 RPM, 12 VDC motor, and the SWR is always unity or close to it.

IF I can hear it on the Hi-Z 4-Square I can work it. Of course that is a 
treatise in itself.

An too, I won't go into electromagnetic theory. However I do have a copy 
of Dr. John Kraus' book _ELECTROMAGNETICS_ with a 1953 copyright date. 
W8JK was an awesome individual . He said a transmitting antenna may be 
defined as the structure associated with the region of transition 
between a guided wave and a free-space wave, or vice versa for a 
receiving antenna. The wave radiated from an antenna spreads out in all 
directions much like an expanding spherical soap bubble having the 
antenna at it's center.

Other than that it is ALL in the books. My late father gave me the book 
in the 1960's while I was a student at GA Tech.

Go get 'em on 160... Every antenna is a compromise..

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Interference on 160

[John Harden]

It has been my pleasure to have been a ham and DXer since 1959 at age 
15. There was a lot of howling going on even back then. Once Buck Joyner 
(SK about 1970) was on AM. Someone told him he was wide. He came back 
laughingly and said I'm not wide, ...I'm just loud! He had the biggest 
signal in Atlanta.

Many times people forget to put their VFO's on split, or they do not 
hear the DX station well due to QSB, QRM or whatever. I would say that 
the vast majority of DXers do not do anything intentionally in the heat 
of battle This is just a hobby and I do not think that we need any 
policemen.

Nobody listens to them anyway. The ones that get upset are usually the 
ones that do not get through... Nothing is going to change.

I remember operating portable 9K2 while deployed to the combat theater 
in 2002. The Russian  European QRM was unbelieveable, and almost 
intolerable at times. However I politely told them to stand by for USA 
and didn't get upset at all. I did not put anyone on a no QSL list. In 
fact, when I returned stateside, I send every USA station a card at my 
own expense. I didn't care how many times they called on top of the 
station I was trying to work.

73,

John, W4NU
(K4JAG 1959 to 1998)


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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Shunt fed tower

[John Harden]

I've been reading all of the posts about the 160 shunt feeds...

I have a 100 foot 45G tower festooned with monobanders from 80 - 10 
meters. Because of the monobanders my 4-wire cage is only 30 feet high. 
The series capacitor is a 1000 pfd vacuum variable and the shunt 
capacitor is 2000 pfd (This was necessary to get a good swr). Even with 
the 4 wire cage the bandwidth is not very wide.

However I placed a 12 VDC, 1 RPM motor on the shunt capacitor and I can 
tune it from the shack remotely. The motor needs to be 1 RPM so you can 
tune accurately. I got it from Digi-Key and you reverse directions by 
simply changing the polarity with a DPDT toggle switch. It is made by 
Cramer in CT.  It is # CRA201-ND.

A complicated arrangement with limit switches is not necessary. Once you 
find the correct point on the rotation you simply move around that point 
to do the tuning. 12 VDC should be applied with a SPST normally open, 
push-button switch.

73,

John, W4NU
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 107, Issue 28

[John Harden]

On 11/20/2011 5:58 PM, gedk...@aol.com wrote:
 Some people would rather play with antennas than get on the air, if that's
 their thing go for it. ME I would rather get on the air and work stations.
 I  just let my auto tuner make the rig happy losses on 160 are not that high.
 But then I remember a time when I needed a station on 24 Mhz so I made up a
   Dipole on the shack floor and climbed up to the 60 ft level of my tower in
 a  snow storm and installed it as a sloped dipole.  worked him on the
 first call  I couldn't believe it !!
 ED K8OT


 In a message dated 11/19/2011 10:45:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
 w9...@aol.com writes:

 In a  message dated 11/19/2011 2:00:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,
 topband-requ...@contesting.com writes:

 K2AVolin...@bellsouth.net


 You know Guy, your diatribes are a sure  cure  for insomnia. I have a buddy
 who sez Stop measuring  everything, tune up, and  work 'em. I think at
 times he's  right  and yet I like to measure  things.

 As for your  subject, it's a moot point.  Apparently a lot of others prefer
 to  play your game rather than just tune up  and work 'em.

 But it's  taking up a lot of band width for no  apparent reason. The
 moderator  has been very lenient for some reason I  don't understand.
 That's his
 choice. Guess he wants everyone to have  their say, even if it is  boring
 and
 doesn't change what they have to work with  in their back  yard.

 I prefer to read the classics on the subject  that have the  most to do
 with
 what is important to Hams that want to work DX  on  160... like G3HRH,”The
 Ground Beneath Us,” RSGB June, 1966, pp.375-385,  or  perhaps G.H. Brown, “
 The Phase and Magnitude of Earth Currents  Near Radio  Transmitting
 Antennas,”
 Proc. Of the IRE, February 1935,  Volume 23, Number  2, or what you have
 been quoting, Brown, R.F.  Lewis,  J. Epstein, “Ground  Systems as a
 Factor in
 Antenna  Efficiency,” Proceedings Of the IRE, June,  1937, Volume 25,
 Number
 6.

 Nothing much else has clarified the issues  lately other  than the work of
 A.C. Doty Jr., J.A. Frey,  H.J. Mills,   “Efficient Ground Systems for
 Vertical Antennas, ”QST, Feb., 1983 and  R.  Severns, “Experimental
 Determination
 of Ground System Performance  for HF  Verticals,”QEX, Jan/Feb 2009 through
 Jan/Feb  2010.

 After wading through those, any  Ham should be able to make  their own good
 decisions as to the  compromises they want to make in  their own stations.
 In
 my own humble opinion,  any further discussion  is a waste of cyberspace.
 Thanks for your great concern  for  everyone's success, Guy. Now why don't
 you
 just tune up and work   'em?

 73, best DX,  Barry



 ___
 UR RST  IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Beverages

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

With the Hi-Z antennas I don't even think about beverages anymore. My 
4-Square works so well I don't need beverages I'll probably upgrade 
to the 8 antenna array soon.

73,

John, W4NU
K4JAG (1959 to 1998)

___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Top Band Receiving Antennas

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

The best, and most cost effective, receiving antennas out there are the Hi-Z 
Antennas triangle, 4-square and 8-circle arrays. I have the triangle array and 
it works fantastic. I has 6 electrically switched directions and a great F/B 
ratio. It is essentially equivalent to having six 500 foot beverages when 
looking at the Receive Direction Factor (RDF).

Right now the Hi-Z web site is shut down due to the lawsuit by PDS Electronics 
(DX Engineering) alleging a patent infringement. Even if the plaintiff wins all 
the info on the Hi-Z antennas will end up on the internet and you'll be able to 
build your own...It'll just be a matter of time.

73,

John, W4NU
(K4JAG 1959 to 1998)

ONE CANNOT SUPPRESS CREATIVITY
___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK