Re: Topband: B7P

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Having lived in the developing world for over a decade, I can testify to 
the likelihood of lots of line noise, resulting from sub-standard, 
badly-maintained power infrastructure.  The predominance of switching 
power supplies in both the developing and developed world just adds 
another layer..  For many of us, about the best we can do is try to 
clean up the environment we can control.


73, Pete N4ZR

On 4/4/2024 1:07 AM, Michael Tope wrote:


That sure seems to be the case, Bob. Heck even on 40 meters I have 
found myself calling loud Chinese stations in vein. My dipole at 45ft 
just doesn't cut it. It must be that there aren't very many BY hams 
that live in rural areas with low noise floors. Hopefully portable 
operations with verticals on the beach will catch on there.


Somewhere I have a recording of WA6TQT running stations during the CQ 
WW 160 SSB contest from the old W6BH mountaintop super-station near 
Anza, CA. I was surprised to hear a couple of Europeans call him that 
I could actually hear Q5. It was quite a thrill. Conditions must have 
been very good that evening.


73, Mike W4EF...



On 4/3/2024 8:13 AM, w3...@roadrunner.com wrote:

Great to hear ur recording of B7P on 160m popping thru the noise, even
if I am 2500 miles further east Hi Hi.

This thread implies that Life in China comes with huge QRM-powerline
noise, which makes a lot of sense. So the Chinese ops flock to 10m.
Most of the ones I worked with my home brew Moxon at 22 ft were
peaking 59 and in some cases even stronger during a 15-30 minute
window post- Ohio sunset.



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Re: Topband: DX Conditions

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

No, they are not, but there's no reason I know of that would prevent RBN 
spots from being carried on any other network - they are distributed to 
the "wholesale market" (not end users please) on Telnet.


73, Pete N4ZR

On 1/26/2024 6:06 PM, Don Kirk wrote:

Hi Mike,

As far as I know the RBN receivers are not related at all to the websdr.com
receivers.

Don wd8dsb

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 5:12 PM Mike Waters  wrote:


Hello Don es Roger,

Can I assume these RBN SDRs are also on websdr.com? If so, which ones?
That
is, what are they called, so we can listen to the right ones?

I no longer have any antennas.

73 Mike
W0BTU

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024, 3:54 PM Don Kirk  wrote:


I know 3 RBN reporting receivers  located in New Hampshire use very good

RX

antennas and they are as follows based on 2020 information I obtained

from

the owner of these receivers.

200m-long Beverage to EU
23' high active Hi-Z vertical

So yes, very good RX antennas on some of the East Coast RBN receivers.

Just FYI,
Don wd8dsb


On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 4:24 PM Roger Kennedy <
ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk>
wrote:


Fine about the RBN Receiving Sites further West . . . I wondered if

that

was
the case.

I guess the East Coast US RBN stations that give us Europeans really

good

reports - more than 30dB above the noise when the band is open - must

also

have good receiving antennas.

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Re: Topband: Inverted L Question

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

FWIW, for 160 I used my old 97-foot Rohn 25 tower, with 2 tribanders and 
a 40M 2-el on it, shunt fed at about 50 feet.  I had a pair of 300 uf 
variable caps at the bottom, one in series with the feed and the other 
in parallel.  It proved to be easy to tune to low SWR once I discovered 
that the local 500-watt radio station on 1500+ KHz went to low power at 
6 pm, so my MFJ analyzer didn't freak out from the received signal.


73, Pete N4ZR

On 12/21/2023 4:55 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 12/21/2023 12:54 PM, Paul Dulaff via Topband wrote:
Ran a basic EZNEC model with no tower present for your 80 ft X 45 ft 
inverted L at 1.825 Mhz. The base impedance for this is 28.5 - j 130 
ohms.  The get rid of the reactance I extended the top wire an 
additional 20 ft so 80 X 65 ft and base impedance is 37.2 + j0. The 
tower is definitely influencing the inverted L.


Neighbor K6RB described a 160 vertical running next to his tower, and 
I don't remember him do anything to detune the tower. Yes, the tower 
becomes part of the antenna, but that isn't a bad thing as long as we 
take it into account to match it to the line. AND -- unless the line 
is quite long or uses lossy coax (like RG58), excess loss on 160M is 
quite low.


I've seen (and used) a simple equation for determining the effective 
diameter of a triangular tower. An NEC model should include that, as 
well as aluminum at the top.


For my Tee, I adopted the ancient and accepted practice of making the 
horizontal element long enough that the feedpoint Z became 50 +jX at 
the desired center of operation, and added series C at the feedpoint 
to equal -jX. I can do this because my Tee is strung between tall 
redwoods.


I ended up with C in the range of 800-900 pF. What's required here is 
capacitors with very low loss, but not particularly high voltage, 
because they're at a high current point, not a high voltage point. So 
their voltage rating is tied to peak value of TX power. I had a stash 
of low loss caps in the 2-3kV range, and used those in parallel, in a 
weatherproof box.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Topband: NCC-2 antenna pattern?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

If you can get that close I suggest a small explosive charge

73, Pete N4ZR

On 12/17/2023 10:31 AM, John Kaufmann via Topband wrote:

If you are going to use the NCC-2 to null a nearby in-band transmitter, I think 
it's very likely that the NCC-2 will get overloaded by the extremely strong RF 
and not be usable.  I've tried this before and found that to be the case.  In 
fact, I designed my own totally passive nuller to get around this problem.  It 
worked and was able to create very deep nulls on an in-band transmitter, but 
turned out to be very impractical because it required constant adjustment to 
maintain a null as antennas were changed or rotated.

The other thing to consider is that if the interference is coming from the same 
direction as a signal you want to hear, nulling the interference will also null 
the signal. Nulling works best when the interference comes from a very 
different direction than the signal.  It also helps greatly if the interference 
sensing antenna receives the interference much more strongly than the main 
antenna.  This can be done by placing the sensing antenna close to the 
interference source, if that's possible.

73, John W1FV

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On 
Behalf Of Kenny Silverman
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 10:05 PM
To: Rick Kunath
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: NCC-2 antenna pattern?

Rick, my application is for an in-band RX antenna, but on a higher band. I just 
thought the guys here might know more about the NCC-2, MFJ or QRM eliminator 
than most others.

One thought was to create a 2 ele phased vertical array for the RX antenna with 
a known pattern and put the null towards the TX array, along with physical 
separation to allow in-band receiving.

But I was thinking an adjustable phasing system may produce a better null. But 
I wouldn’t want the adjustable unit to create a clover leaf pattern for 
example. One null might take out the interference but another null towards the 
desired receiving direction might be created and is not desired.

I hope I’m explaining this well.

Regards , Kenny K2KW


On Dec 16, 2023, at 9:47 PM, Rick Kunath  wrote:

What's your application Kenny and what would you be feeding the antenna output 
of the phaser into?

Rick Kunath, K9AO


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Topband: 2-element receiving arrays

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thinking ahead to next winter on 160, I'm interested in replacing my 
K9AY Loop with a 2-vertical phased array.  I'd like to homebrew the 
antennas and just buy or build the remote control unit for the shack.  
I'm looking for sources of components (antenna-located preamps and an 
in-shack controller), and would prefer not to completely homebrew them, 
but the prices at the usual suspects are awfully high.  Any ideas?


I have pretty reasonably-priced access to 25 and 31-foot fiberglass 
poles (used for wind-socks by model airplane enthusiasts).  I'm thinking 
that one relatively low-cost approach might be to attach, say, #14 wire 
to the poles, with preamps at the base, but wonder if there is a 
downside to using such small-diameter antenna elements rather than 1 or 
1.5 inch tubing? Alternatively, are clones of the DX Engineering 8' 
short verticals with preamps a good alternative?


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: 160M Conditions

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

No, just an error of understanding on my part.  I did a lookup for the 
last 36 hours, but the map only plots the last 100 spots, something that 
I should have realized but hadn't.  Apologies to everyone.


73, Pete N4ZR

On 1/28/2023 8:59 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:

Context, Pete? Maybe you had some numbers or a graph that were left out?

I thought last night was huge! I was called by gobs of EU. My main 
complaint is that most seemed to be sending 35 WPM or higher so I 
asked for lots of repeats.


Maybe the high WPM of the EU callers reflects the rough and tumble EU 
top and activity?


I am unassisted (for the first time in forever) so can’t look at 
reversebeacon till it’s over :-)


Tim

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

*From:* Topband  on 
behalf of Pete Smith N4ZR 

*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2023 8:53:04 AM
*To:* topband reflector 
*Subject:* Topband: 160M Conditions
This snapshot of RBN spots over the last 36 hours is a little 
disappointing.


Is there really an international contest on?

--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Topband: 160M Conditions

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

This snapshot of RBN spots over the last 36 hours is a little disappointing.

Is there really an international contest on?

--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Topband: Shape and height of K9AY loops

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I don't think I've ever read anything about this.  Just rechecked the 
Array Solutions manual and found nothing.  Reason for asking is that I 
have to replace my fiberglass mast, and while the old one was about 25 
feet tall, the new one is 31.  That raises the possibility that I can 
put the bottom of the loops 5 feet higher, or change the shape of the 
loops, which currently have their bottom legs more or less parallel to 
the ground.


Diagrams I have seen generally show included angles at the outer points 
of each loop to  be well under 90 degrees, and the lower segments almost 
parallel to the ground.  Has anyone experimented with this? What about 
the usual shape, but higher off the ground?  I have 4X30' radials plus a 
ground rod, with the radials laid under and in line with the elements


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Comparing antennas was: Re: 160m loaded tower

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

This is really cool. Somehow I had managed to miss the emergence of the 
Kiwi WEBSDR network.  Clearly, that *is* a better way


73, Pete N4ZR

On 1/18/2023 4:52 PM, VE6WZ_Steve wrote:

Further to Don and Steve’s comment about using an on-line KIWI WEBSDR to check 
your signal, I just uploaded a video I had made that shows how this works.

This is a short 4 min Video, but shows how easy it is to see any changes using 
the S-meter extension.
In this video I am showing the directivity of my 9 Circle RX array:

https://youtu.be/GzW8Ji49Kt4  

73, de steve, ve6wz



On Jan 18, 2023, at 10:32 AM, Don Moman VE6JY  wrote:

Even better is to use S Meter dropdown in the KIWI extensions menu it
gives a strip chart style presentation that can be configured to easily
show small differences in signal levels, far easier to watch and more
accurate  than the S meter display.


On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:27 AM STEVE MCDONALD  wrote:


Pete, I’ve found the best way to A/B antennas in real time is to listen on
one of the hundreds of online Kiwi SDRs …. You can flip from one antenna to
the other instantly and the difference is readily apparent. RBN can never
be A/B ‘d instantly.

Steve VE7SL


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Re: Topband: Comparing antennas was: Re: 160m loaded tower

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I agree entirely - the challenge is to model a tower and two multiband 
yagis with sufficient fidelity.


73, Pete N4ZR

On 1/18/2023 2:19 PM, James Wolf wrote:

It's quite possible that the addition of a beam at 60 ft. could cause capacity 
hat effect changing the current flow in the tower.  It might be worth modeling 
this.

Jim - KR9U


I have a 100 ft tower with jk mid tri 40 on top. When shunt fed, it
was pretty competitive on 160. Recently the antenna seems to be a few
db weaker. The only change was adding another beam at 60ft. Could it
have had an impact? Adding the beam only marginally affected the match.

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Topband: Comparing antennas was: Re: 160m loaded tower

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

This would have been more helpful to Ignacy before the second antenna 
went up, but taking off from Stan's question ... if you want to get a 
quick quantitative comparison between two transmitting antennas, you can 
use the Reverse Beacon Network.  Go to 
https://reversebeacon.net/main.php.  Transmit a CQ or test (CQ or TEST 
at least twice, and your callsign 3-4 times) and note the spots that 
result.  QSY at least 0.3 KHz and repeat.  You should see spots from 
some of the same stations, and you can readily tell (in dB) which 
antenna was stronger.  You can do the same trick to compare receiving 
antennas, without QSYing, but you must wait 10 minutes before the system 
will accept a second spot of the same station from you.


73, Pete N4ZR

On 1/18/2023 11:31 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:

Ignacy,

Is your thought that you are a few dB weaker based on sone kind of A-B test of 
the two antenna setups or just that you feel weaker?

73…Stan, K5GO

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 17, 2023, at 9:44 PM, Ignacy Misztal  wrote:

I have a 100 ft tower with jk mid tri 40 on top. When shunt fed, it was
pretty competitive on 160. Recently the antenna seems to be a few db
weaker. The only change was adding another beam at 60ft. Could it have had
an impact? Adding the beam only marginally affected the match.

Ignacy NO9E
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Re: Topband: RFI tripping GFI breaker on 160m

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Darrell, I suspect you would find better response on r...@contesting.com, 
where all the mavens hang out.


73, Pete N4ZR

On 12/29/2022 9:20 PM, AB2E Darrell wrote:

I trip a GFI breaker sometimes on 160m, usually in a contest 1500W.
Never had a problem when GFI outlets were the norm, but I had some electrical 
work done in an added
  room and the new code calls for a GFI breaker.
Has anyone had a similar experience and located an RFI resistant GFI breaker?
73 and HNY,
Darrell AB2E


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Topband: Sanity Check on K9AY Loop Sensitivity

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I just deployed my K9AY loop (yes, I know I'm late).  Anyhow, while it 
shows substantial directivity on broadcast stations, I was surprise by 
how much the K9AY loop's sensitivity suffers compared to my inverted L. 
Listening to a broadcast station with the K9AY on 1500 KHz, the station 
is S6-7 in the right direction and S3 in the reverse. and S9 +10 on the 
inverted L. There's also something haywire in the K9AY's preamp, which 
*reduces* signal by a couple of S-Units.  Could be I need to replace the 
transistor?


--
73, Pete N4ZR
One of the RBN team
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Re: Topband: ARRL 160

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

From 13 years experience rather than detailed analysis or any knowledge 
of VE3NEA's decoding methods, I don't think that an additional 
half-space is a big problem - certainly not as compared to running 
things together - for example making TEST N4ZR into TESTN4ZR.  The 
latter makes for many bum spots of TN4ZR, TK2XX, etc.  I see those in 
numbers every contest.


73, Pete N4ZR
One of the RBN team

On 12/7/2022 8:08 PM, m.r.c. wrote:
that's where added half space has a useful point.  your increase in 
copied accuracy should more than offset the decrease in spot accuracy


the ZIP speed change for any part is the first thing I get rid of 
sitting down at a position, the pico gain in time is far offset by the 
annoyance and accuracy loss


especially on top band I dislike the S and T, and any mis use of a 
character. NN is just an exchange so it matters less unless its used 
in a zone- BAD idea-. Its tough enough to copy correctly sent data, 
don't make it harder just to gain 50 microseconds.


off soap

WA6CDR



- Original Message - From: "Joe" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2022 14:05
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160



I'll differ on the half space thing.

I cut my repeat needs by at LEAST 75% and still get spotted by the 
RBN all the time, (well not much on 160 he he he)


But on bands where i got good signals my repeats are far less when I use

W9~E~T than when I use W9ET

Joe WB9SBD

On 12/7/2022 9:13 AM, Mike VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca wrote:

Lee et al,

Which just goes to further prove my point. The RBN (& skimmers) are 
truly wonderful tech, but they are not perfect even if your CW is 
(or nearly so).


Please do not be surprised by the occasional bust or dupe if you are 
doing something "weird" with your callsign by adding 1/2 spaces, 
slowing letters down and whatnot.


Human brains may (or maynot) be able to deal with that somewhat 
better (up for debate - I personally dislike it done to most 
callsigns), but computers don't 'know' what the intent is with that 
type of sending.


VE9AA

==
I get spotted as KX4M and KK4TT all the time. It does not matter if 
I send by

hand or through N1MM / Winkeyer.

73 de Lee KX4TT



On Wednesday, December 7, 2022, 08:48:47 AM EST,  wrote:

Hi Ron,

The wrong call sign spotting and "run of dupes" happens a few times a
year to me.
Bob, KQ2M
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Topband: Correction

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

73, Pete N4ZR,one of the RBN team
Check out our web server at
.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

Earlier today, someone who shall remain nameless accused me of claiming 
sole credit for the RBN, based on my long-employed e-mail signature 
block.  In an effort to prevent that interpretation in future, I 
mistakenly and inadvertently connected myself to the N1MM team in a few 
e-mails to the addressees above. when what I meant to say was that I'm 
just one member of the *RBN* team.


My apologies - it was a classic case of thinking of too many things at 
once and having the wrong thing come out through my keyboard  I hope 
this puts it straight.

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Re: Topband: ARRL 160

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I had 598 QSOs in CQWW CW (10M) and 420 in the ARRL 160 CW, about 85 
percent S (assisted), and don't recall a single instance where an 
incorrect spot led me even to think about calling a station who wasn't 
really there.  N1MM's Spectrum Display shows previously-worked stations, 
so it would be glaringly obvious when spots for K3LPL and W3LPL showed 
up on the same frequency. I didn't see it happen.


73, Pete N4ZR,for the N1MM Team
Check out our web server at
.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 12/5/2022 10:55 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:

Re Packet and the contest


May not be of interest to everyone.



Sat evening around 0010 or so, had been running with a nice rate. Then a dupe. 
And another. And yet another. This continued for around 15 minutes until I 
finally QSY'd to escape.



My guess of what happened: someone spotted me but with an incorrect call. On all those 
using packet, a new call popped up. They clicked on it, dumped in their call. Typically I 
work all dupes and,  for the first few did but, as the volume grew, I replied with their 
call, mine and "B4". Most went away but a few insisted on a Q.



In addition to showing how far our hobby has sunk, isn't it the responsibility 
of the calling station to actually copy the call sign? Many of the stations 
that duped me were very recognizable stations. Again, guessing, they were 
running SO2R, clicked on the spot, called and expected a quick Q. NEVER 
bothering to check accuracy of packet spot. Is it a valid contact if you don't 
copy the actual call sign? Even if the call was correct on packet. Or are we 
moving towards letting the computer do most of the work?



Sure would be interesting if more contests were like the Stew Perry where no 
spotting assistance is allowed. You have to actually copy the information.. 
Yes, I know. A radical idea.



Ron

N4XD
Sent usinghttps://www.zoho.com/mail/
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Re: Topband: How good is good enough

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Just cut 20 more 70' radials.  Time to go play in the yard.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at<https://reversebeacon.net>.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 11/12/2022 11:41 AM, Grant Saviers wrote:
The 34 ohms is the sum of Rr (antenna radiation Z over perfect ground) 
and Rg (ground R loss).  Rr depends on the dimensions of the L plus a 
bit of wire loss.  My guess is Rr is about 10 ohms less than 34 ohms, 
some easy modeling will determine it.


Then it is a question of what antenna efficiency you want vs cost and 
time for more radials.  If 10 ohms is Rg, then about 1/3 of the TX 
power is warming the worms.


Grant KZ1W

On 11/12/2022 07:31, ws6x@gmail.com wrote:
In my experience here in "ROCK"ingham County, I didn't reach the 
point of diminishing returns until around 32 radials of varying 
lengths (Most were either 50 or 100' long.). Much would depend on 
length, configuration, terrain and ground conductivity.

Jim - WS6X

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On 
Behalf Of Pete Smith N4ZR

Sent: Monday, November 7, 2022 4:27 PM
To: topband reflector 
Subject: Topband: How good is good enough

Now that the lawn mowing is done for the season, I resuscitated my 
160M inverted L.  With 13 on the ground radials, each roughly 70 feet 
long, measured R of 34 ohms seems OK to me.  Is it worth laying down 
more radials, or am I approaching diminishing returns?

--
73, Pete N4ZR


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Topband: How good is good enough

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Now that the lawn mowing is done for the season, I resuscitated my 160M 
inverted L.  With 13 on the ground radials, each roughly 70 feet long, 
measured R of 34 ohms seems OK to me.  Is it worth laying down more 
radials, or am I approaching diminishing returns?


--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.
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Re: Topband: QRM Eliminator

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Funny (I guess) - we have Chinese manufacturers cloning a Russian design.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 10/9/2022 12:35 PM, K4SAV wrote:
This link shows a schematic of this thing. (Assuming it's the same as 
the packaged version.)

https://tinyurl.com/3pkvzdft

Jerry, K4SAV

On 10/9/2022 10:59 AM, Tree wrote:

Looks like there is a low cost version of the ANC-4 and MFJ-1026 type of
noise eliminator available on Amazon of all places.

Search for QRM Eliminator.  Cost is around $60.

These are useful if you have a single point noise source.   I do not 
have
one of these units but was "reading the mail" on someone talking 
about it

on 40M SSB and they seemed to think it worked well.

And he had a good point - if you don't like it - you can send it back 
for a

full refund!

Tree N6TR
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Re: Topband: QRM Eliminator

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

That's amazing - there are at least 10 different listings on Amazon, 
ranging from $54 to $70.  They all appear to be the same box,.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 10/9/2022 11:59 AM, Tree wrote:

Looks like there is a low cost version of the ANC-4 and MFJ-1026 type of
noise eliminator available on Amazon of all places.

Search for QRM Eliminator.  Cost is around $60.

These are useful if you have a single point noise source.   I do not have
one of these units but was "reading the mail" on someone talking about it
on 40M SSB and they seemed to think it worked well.

And he had a good point - if you don't like it - you can send it back for a
full refund!

Tree N6TR
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Topband: ARRL DX 160 Phone - worth a try?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I'm sitting at about 95 confirmed or pending at LOTW for my 160 DXCC, 
and was toying with the idea of spending some time in the ARRL Phone DX 
Contest this weekend on single-band 160.  Looking down my LOTW listing, 
plus the few cards I have in hand and the list of ones I don't have, I'm 
wondering what the likelihood is that some of the relatively easy ones 
will be on.  Here's my list of those:


CX, FJ, GI, GJ, HC, HP, J8, KL7, LU, OA, PJ5, PJ7, PY, ZP, YU, TG

Am I kidding myself?  I seem to be fairly loud on 160 CW, and while I 
don't hear that well, I'm willing to give it a try.  Is there someplace 
online where I can check for recent activity by country?




--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Personal decision

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I have to demur. Government-to-government sanctions are one thing, but 
ultimately it will come down to the Russian people turning against 
Putin, and it's hard for me to understand why they shouldn't feel the 
cost of his transgressions in this as in other areas.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 2/24/2022 10:38 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:

100% agreement with what Tree has said.

73...Stan, K5GO/ZF9CW

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 10:23 AM Tree  wrote:

I also need to respond to this sentiment:

"it's more important at this moment to get the word out
to the Russian public that their leader's ruthless behavior is scorned
and despised by the majority of the world's people."

Perhaps - but I believe Vladimir Putin really is receiving that
message
clearly already - and having some ham radio operators complain to
him will
not really concern him.

This is a scary thing for everyone in the world - and the people
in Russia
are just as scared as we all are.  Maybe the best way to get the
message
out to the Russian public is to engage with them where we can.

Tree

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 7:17 AM Tree  wrote:

> Guys - I need to step in here.
>
> This is not what ham radio people do.
>
> The Russian ham that you are pretending to punish is not the person
> responsible for what is happening in Ukraine.
>
> Think about the situation if you were a USA ham - and some other ham
> decided not to work you because they did not like the decisions
someone in
> Washington had made.
>
> Throughout my ham career - I have enjoyed the opportunity to
meet people
> in places that I was taught were bad places and become to
understand that
> they were people just like me - and were perhaps more helpless
to control
> their government than I can control mine.
>
> We all have worked Russians over the years - and I bet almost
everyone
> here would be in the pileup if a station from North Korea came
on the air.
>
> I will always feel the best hope for humanity is to get to know
each other
> and understand each other's situation better and have some
understanding.
> Ham radio is one way to break down the political barriers and
get to know
> real people.
>
> I have kind of felt sorry for the stations currently using D1 as a
> prefix.  They are just pawns in a chess game and through no
fault of their
> own, ended up in a situation where they couldn't get a license. 
They came
> up with a work around that allowed them to get on the air.  If I
was in
> their situation, I would probably do the same thing.
>
> If Vladimir Putin were a ham, I could understand you deciding
not to work
> him - but let's not pretend our friends who we have been working
over the
> years are responsible.
>
> I will not tolerate anything less from the members of this list.
>
> 73 Tree N6TR
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:46 AM Pete Smith N4ZR

> wrote:
>
>> Yup.  Me too.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
>> web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
>> For spots, please use your favorite
>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>
>> On 2/24/2022 8:03 AM, MU 4CX250B wrote:
>> > Good move, Mark. We all know the current assault on Ukraine
is not the
>> > fault of our many good Russian ham buddies, and while I know
we all
>> > wish them well, it's more important at this moment to get the
word out
>> > to the Russisn public that their leader's ruthless behavior
is scorned
>> > and despised by the majority of the world's people.
>> > 73,
>> > Jim w8zr
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Feb 24, 2022, at 5:33 AM, Mpridesti via Topband<
>> topband@contesting.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >>> I plan to NOT work any Russian stations during the ARRL DX SSB
>> contest as
>> >>> I  object to the in unprovoked war they started.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ukraine hams have already shut down.
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Mark, K1RX
>> >>
>> >> _
>> >> Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
>> Reflector
>> > _
>> > Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
>> Reflector
>> _
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
>> Reflector
>>
>
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Re: Topband: Personal decision

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Yup.  Me too.

73, Pete N4ZR
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On 2/24/2022 8:03 AM, MU 4CX250B wrote:

Good move, Mark. We all know the current assault on Ukraine is not the
fault of our many good Russian ham buddies, and while I know we all
wish them well, it's more important at this moment to get the word out
to the Russisn public that their leader's ruthless behavior is scorned
and despised by the majority of the world's people.
73,
Jim w8zr

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 24, 2022, at 5:33 AM, Mpridesti via Topband  
wrote:



I plan to NOT work any Russian stations during the ARRL DX SSB contest as
I  object to the in unprovoked war they started.

Ukraine hams have already shut down.

Regards,

Mark, K1RX

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Re: Topband: PLease!

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Amen, Mel.  My favorites (ha) are the people who don't include *any* 
context in their replies.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 2/1/2022 2:05 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

Thank you, Mel. This needed to be said. :-)

On Tue, Feb 1, 2022, 1:00 PM MEL CRICHTON  wrote:


Folks... when you reply to a post PLEASE do not include the entire
digest in your reply just the message, or even better just the line
or paragraph, that you are responding to. I could not find the new stuff
inside all the old attachments in the last digest.

Sorry to be a griper Not my usual cheery self today

Mel KJ9C


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Topband: K9AY RX antenna

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

My K9AY loop (the commercial version from Array Solutions) seems to be 
kind of an indifferent performer.  I believe it is set up properly. and 
I've laid down a radial under each side of the loops, but while it shows 
some directivity on high-end broadcast stations, 160M directivity is 
limited to nil, signal strengths are rarely better than my inverted-L, 
and the adjusting the termination seems to make very little difference.  
Any hints?


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Poor Propagation or Noise?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Hi Roger - unfortunately, we have no way of telling, because too many 
factors influence SNR at each individual node.  If you noted that the 
same RBN nodes were giving lower SNR reports than they had on previous 
occasions, then I'd guess propagation must have been poor.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 1/10/2022 6:25 PM, Roger Kennedy wrote:

I noticed that signals received from EU over last weekend by most of the US
RBN sites were around 10 to 20dB lower than normal . . .

Given that they show S/N (rather than absolute signal strengths), is that
because 160m Propagation was poor . . . or because you had high noise levels
(QRN) over there?

Roger G3YRO


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Topband: RBN callsign pattern file revision

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

In order to have the RBN's revised callsign pattern file ready before 
the CQ 160 contest, We're moving the target date up to January 25, so if 
you know of new callsign patterns that need to be incorporated, now's 
the time to let me know.


For those who don't know, the pattern file lets CW Skimmer "anticipate" 
common callsign patterns and require fewer repetitions for common patterns.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Topband: Radials on ground

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

For the moment at least, I'm using on-the-ground radials for my 160M 
inverted L. Discussion on the reflector triggered a thought - is the 
size of wire used for on-the-ground radials - or elevated radials for 
that matter - significant?  I ask this because I have a huge spool of 
military-surplus, silver-plated (!) 18-gauge insulated copper wire.  
Currently using 16, +/- 1/8 wave on-the-ground radials made with the 
stuff.   Feedpoint resistance seems to be by the book, at least as 
compared to feeding the antenna against a single ground rod.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Wednesday CW DX Activity Night

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

http://beta.reversebeacon.net/main.php

73, Pete N4ZR
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On 1/4/2022 1:58 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:

Roger

I am not exactly sure which BETA RBN sight you are referring to. Could 
you post a link?


Generally speaking here in the deep south of NA I can clearly see the 
affects of the up swing in the sunspot cycle. The prior two years on 
most evenings I could copy some EU at my sunset. The sunset openings 
to EU this season have been VERY rare in Florida. Sunrise openings on 
the Europe end of the path are far more numerous and reliable in 
occurrence. For many years I worked the EU/NA path with ease when I 
lived "up north ( in NH) . That all changed when I retired to the 
south and it is quite noticeable.


Dave

NR1DX

On 1/4/2022 1:25 PM, Roger Kennedy wrote:

Just another reminder . . .

Hope to see lots of stations on 160m tomorrow night.

(conditions were really good last night, with mine and other EU 
stations'

RBN reports from NA peaking over 40dB S/N ! But very little activity)

Oh and the new Beta RBN site is really good - previously I had RBN 
set to
show all English stations' signals in the US . . . but now it can 
display

ALL EU signals from any NA site.

73 Roger G3YRO



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Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

No significant difference in most cases.

73, Pete N4ZR
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On 1/3/2022 10:55 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
Which antenna can you more easily copy the station on?  I would hope 
the loop.


W0MU

On 1/2/2022 12:24 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 1/2/2022 7:29 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
The antenna is directional, as demonstrated by tuning in broadcast 
stations at the high end of the AM band and separating stations on 
the same frequency so that I can hear one or the other.  Atmospheric 
noise is 1-2 S units more on my inverted L than on the K9AY antenna, 
but signal strengths of stations in the favored direction of the 
loop seem about the same or a bit lower than the inverted L.


Hi Pete,

RX antennas don't make signals louder, but they improve the signal to 
noise ratio, making them easier to copy -- IF your noise(s) is/are 
not in the same direction as the signal.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks, Cecil.  I may have to look into one of those multi-element 
solutions.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 1/2/2022 11:01 AM, Cecil acuff wrote:

Hi Pete,

I built one several years back and my results were much like you describe.

I have tried several different RX antennas and for some reason on this lot none 
have heard significantly better than my Inverted L.

All have been separated from the L by 250’.

I’ve also had the Array Solutions SAL-30 and a couple BOG installations to no 
avail.  Currently have a DX Engineering loop @ 30’ and it’s a marginal 
improvement at times.

No longer have the L up as I’m testing a half sloper for 160, 80 and 40/30.

Not sure what I’m missing because these things work for other folks.

My noise level here is fairly low..S1-2 on 160 at night but I have little luck 
hearing Europe.

I’ve used the Hi-Z 4 element at our club station during 160 contests and it 
works great!  Night and day difference between RX antenna and listening on TX 
antenna. Can’t hear a thing on TX antenna but the world opens up when using the 
RX antenna.

Can’t duplicate that at home. Have no room for the HI-Z at home either.

I’m on a 150’ x 450’ lot with a 60’ tower.

Hope you find the magic fix.

Cecil
K5DL



Sent from my iPad


On Jan 2, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR  wrote:

I recently installed a K9AY loop (with the Array Solutions controller), and 
have a couple of questions.  Installation is pretty standard, with a fiberglass 
pole at the center, ground rod at its base, and on the ground radials under 
each direction of the loop.

The antenna is directional, as demonstrated by tuning in broadcast stations at 
the high end of the AM band and separating stations on the same frequency so 
that I can hear one or the other.  Atmospheric noise is 1-2 S units more on my 
inverted L than on the K9AY antenna, but signal strengths of stations in the 
favored direction of the loop seem about the same or a bit lower than the 
inverted L.  The Termination adjustment is working, to judge by the switching 
transients, but seems to make little or no difference.

How do these results compare with others' experience?  I didn't expect a "magic 
bullet", but the K9AY loop seems a little bit underwhelming.

--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Topband: K9AY Loop Questions

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I recently installed a K9AY loop (with the Array Solutions controller), 
and have a couple of questions.  Installation is pretty standard, with a 
fiberglass pole at the center, ground rod at its base, and on the ground 
radials under each direction of the loop.


The antenna is directional, as demonstrated by tuning in broadcast 
stations at the high end of the AM band and separating stations on the 
same frequency so that I can hear one or the other.  Atmospheric noise 
is 1-2 S units more on my inverted L than on the K9AY antenna, but 
signal strengths of stations in the favored direction of the loop seem 
about the same or a bit lower than the inverted L.  The Termination 
adjustment is working, to judge by the switching transients, but seems 
to make little or no difference.


How do these results compare with others' experience?  I didn't expect a 
"magic bullet", but the K9AY loop seems a little bit underwhelming.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Balloon Supported Vertical

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Here's an interesting source - 
https://balloonmarket.co.uk/lift-ability.  Looks like one of the last 
couple in the table should be big enough - say 5 feet in diameter for 
starters.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 11/8/2021 4:00 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 11/8/2021 12:48 PM, Dick Bingham wrote:

I want to try a balloon supported Vertical for 160.
Any advice on sources for balloons? Mylar material
and diameters up to 2-feet would be my choice.


W6JTI and W4EF are two guys I know who have done it (and JTI still 
does, although he's been finding helium expensive in the last few years).


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: Inverted L's etc

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

FWIW, the only thing that would concern me about that sort of solution 
is the projectile, and its potential for damage if it should hit someone 
(or something).  I personally prefer the tennis-ball cannon 
(antennalauncher.com) for that reason.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 9/28/2021 1:58 PM, Michael Fischer wrote:

Stan - LOVE "just my 2Hz worth" stealing that from you om!

First of all thank you to each one of you who have contributed your thoughts 
particularly around the mechanical considerations for suspending the InvL, You 
guys are great teachers. Says the guy whose dad was the ME in the family and 
raised a son who had a tough time with math so he went into sales...  I am 
grateful for the grace you guys have for those of us to whom engineering does 
NOT come naturally..

FWIW, my weapon of choice for the past several years for launching lines over 
very high tree limbs has been the PVC cannon discussed in QST some number of 
years ago. My only changes to the design have been (1) to fill the projectile 
(also made from PVC) with lead fishing weights, initially so it could pull the 
monofilament I was using as a tag line back down the other side of the Douglas 
Firs which present a lot of friction.

I learned that (2), braided fishing line is lighter, tangles far less ( limp by 
nature), weighs much less and therefor can be shot much higher, presents less 
friction over the branch (almost guaranteeing you can get it to drop back to 
earth) and is much stronger as a tag line for pulling the heavier rope or 
paracord etc back over the branch ( that you ultimately use for suspending the 
antenna).

The PVC cannon is very accurate and I often get compliments from people about 
being able to choose the branch and put it exactly where I want it. Its' a 
great tool. I can comfortably shoot the projectile over 125' with approximately 
90PSI in the cannon

Hope this helps someone..

73,
Mike
K7XH (forever a TB newb)
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Re: Topband: NA activity + Inv-L corner insulator

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I had to laugh - I'm sure that the couple of box wrenches I lost in the 
trees behind my townhouse in Reston, VA are still there - or if not, do 
you suppose people thought they grew there somehow?


Re the Flexweave, I didn't recognize the name so I googled it, and who 
knew...?  It sounds like it might work very well for the whole inverted 
L, and these days it's not appreciably more expensive than #14 THHN.


I got a very nice-looking pulley from Amazon 
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GWLH7WS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8=1) 
for $13, which is made of 304 stainless with a nylon sheave which has a 
very large and deep groove.  It's hard to imagine a scenario where the 
rope will hop out of this sheave.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 9/25/2021 7:32 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

In the pulley snag conundrum, I found that the small marine grade stainless
steel, ball bearing pulleys would handle the black sheathed 3/16 in
parachute cord style rope and never a snag. They also pull very easy as the
bearing never freezes up from exposure to merely (vs. salt) water.

I also have a pair of insulators at the bend, one to the vertical wire,
another to the horizontal wire with a loop of "Flexweave" wire from the
horizontal to the vertical. That way in the wind there is no way for the
forces to be flexing a hard connection from the vertical to the horizontal.
After 2 or 3 (or was it 7 or 8) failures at this point with wires on the
ground it finally dawned on me that the wind constantly varied the angle
between the two wires, and fatigue at the joint was inevitable and
frequent.

YMMV but I'll never again have a "hard joint" at that point. I started this
in 2010, and have gone 11 years without the L coming down for that (one
dumb rope thing, though).

73, and long in the future may your heirs have to figure out how to get it
down out of the trees.

Guy K2AV

On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 4:23 PM  wrote:


. Here in Ohio we are still having moderate QRN especially in the
evenings. When I get on at our SR, the VK/ZL boys are often coming
through fairly well with much less QRN.

My INV-L has a ceramic insulator at the apex, which is held in place
by 3/16" black synthetic rope of some kind ( Home Depot source) thrown
over my 52 ft tall black walnut tree tied off to another tree. I dont
use pullies since so often the rope slips off the roller and into the
crack between the roller and the U-bracket. So I just tied a rope to
the other side of the insulator and hoist.


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Re: Topband: Corner insulator of Inverted L

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks everyone who replied - I think I have a handle on it now

73, Pete N4ZR
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On 9/25/2021 9:32 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
I'm in the process of putting my inverted L back up, and have a 
construction question - how do you position and attach the corner 
insulator?  My support for the vertical section is an old maple, 
plenty tall but only really reachable with a pull-up rope by firing a 
tennis-ball gun over it.  The first time I put this up, I used a 
pulley with a deep insulated sleeve and passed the inverted L wire 
through the pulley.  Neat, it seemed - the corner was automatically 
positioned to keep the vertical portion the right length. 
Unfortunately, over a year or so, the antenna wire flexing over the  
pulley caused it to break, so this time around I'd like to use a rope 
through the pulley and an insulator at the corner. Question is how 
best to do it, to minimize strain on the antenna wire, making it more 
durable.



.

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Topband: Corner insulator of Inverted L

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I'm in the process of putting my inverted L back up, and have a 
construction question - how do you position and attach the corner 
insulator?  My support for the vertical section is an old maple, plenty 
tall but only really reachable with a pull-up rope by firing a 
tennis-ball gun over it.  The first time I put this up, I used a pulley 
with a deep insulated sleeve and passed the inverted L wire through the 
pulley.  Neat, it seemed - the corner was automatically positioned to 
keep the vertical portion the right length.  Unfortunately, over a year 
or so, the antenna wire flexing over the  pulley caused it to break, so 
this time around I'd like to use a rope through the pulley and an 
insulator at the corner.  Question is how best to do it, to minimize 
strain on the antenna wire, making it more durable.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: strange propagation

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

By all means, please don't leave, Tom.  Until recently, this sort of 
junk stayed on CQ-Contest.  Perhaps we can give it the cold shoulder and 
it'll wither away.  This is still the place I look to for serious 
discussion of, among other topics, low-band verticals and receiving 
antennas.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 1/16/2016 8:52 AM, Louis Parascondola via Topband wrote:

Tom, by you leaving would just fuel the egos of those VERY few who want to stir 
up trouble.  If we get off the discussion things should return to normal.  I am 
done with the RHR discussion.  When it was a healthy discussion where sensible 
arguments were presented I see no problem, but when it gets boiled down to 
comparing them with the  guy who pumped the price of the drug that is the 
toilet and that's where it will end.  I'm sure others will feel the same.  Hang 
in there.


Lou W1QJ



-Original Message-
From: Tom W8JI 
To: Louis Parascondola ; n1rj ; topband 

Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2016 8:37 am
Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation

This reflector has gone down the toilet with personal BS that serves no
purpose except to pick fights.

After 20 years, I'm leaving it.It sure went down the tubes.


- Original Message -
From: "Louis Parascondola via Topband" 
To: ; 
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation



That was not nice.


Lou W1QJ



-Original Message-
From: Roger D Johnson 
To: topband 
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2016 7:09 am
Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation


Sounds a lot like the RHR folks!



A friend of mine at the Georgia State Public Service Training Center
(right
down my street) says this social trend, made pandemic through Internet,
has
even been assigned a name now. It is called Homogeneous Clustering. This
is
where groups of people cluster together and invent their own reality,
feed off
each other's emotions, and dismiss anyone outside their group as a
problem and
dishonest.


73 Tom
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Re: Topband: Using shielded CAT5 data cable as feedline for active antenna; benefits of multi-turn K9AY loop/SAL/etc?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I should have been clearer - all his work is with small loops, typically 
1 meter diameter. My interest was in the possibility of improving the 
performance of my omnidirectional active Skimmer antenna, currently a 
Clifton Labs 8-ft vertical.  Since some of his antennas favor horizontal 
polarization, according to his writeups, my thought was that perhaps 
combining vertical and horizontal polarization might yield a net 
improvement in SNR.


73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/2/2016 11:19 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
2.  He cites experimental data showing that coplanar crossed loops 
and multi-turn quad loops both offer very significant improvement in 
the recovered signalcompared with a single loop.  See 
 
to check whether I got this right. Anyway, it occurred to me to ask 
if anyone has ever tried multiturn K9AY, SAL or flag/pennant 
receiving antennas, and did you see something similar?


Be careful in what you might think the data means. The measurements 
are for an unmatched system, and apply to broadband untuned loops with 
"low impedance" loads.


In a case like that, the parallel wires reduce the impedance primarily 
by reducing reactance. It is no different than a thicker conductor, 
which would reduce reactance and increase current in the simple circuit.


This does not necessarily mean the loop would have a higher SNR, that 
would depend on how the amplifier "likes" the lower impedance and if 
external noise is limiting the system.


It does not mean more directivity. An even larger improvement in 
sensitivity would come from cancelling reactance.


If  a small terminated loop had increased conductor size it would have 
more sensitivity, which means increased signal and noise pickup, 
because the termination and source resistances would decrease.


You can see this effect by modeling an EWE antenna, or any small 
loop.  As the conductor is made thicker the optimum termination 
resistance decreases. This increases sensitivity, because radiation 
resistance remains the same and loss resistances decrease. You can 
pick up a few dB in sensitivity in certain cases.


If the amplifier or receive system is affecting S/N in a significant 
manner, it would improve S/N. If external noise is the significant 
factor in sensitivity, then it would pretty much do nothing.


This effect occurs in all sorts of lossy antennas. For example, if you 
paralleled two close-spaced Beverages (making them act like a single 
very wide conductor) sensitivity increases. This does not mean S/N 
ratio increases, because signal and noise from the antenna would 
increase at the same rate. It just means the level of signal and noise 
from the antenna is a bit higher.


If receive amplifier or system internal noise is helping set noise 
floor, then it would help S/N.


73 Tom



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Topband: Using shielded CAT5 data cable as feedline for active antenna; benefits of multi-turn K9AY loop/SAL/etc?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I was recently reading a web page by LZ1AQ 
.  It is full of fascinating data and 
design equations for the use of small magnetic loop antennas.  There 
were two points, in particular, that caught my layman's attention:


1.  He recommends using shielded CAT5 data cable with RJ-45 connectors 
as feedline.  The obvious advantage is having three pairs left over for 
voltage supply and control.  See 
 for more information.


2.  He cites experimental data showing that coplanar crossed loops and 
multi-turn quad loops both offer very significant improvement in the 
recovered signalcompared with a single loop.  See 
 to 
check whether I got this right. Anyway, it occurred to me to ask if 
anyone has ever tried multiturn K9AY, SAL or flag/pennant receiving 
antennas, and did you see something similar?


Any other critiques of his design would be appreciated.  The price is 
certainly right, and the construction looks good. A couple of 1-meter 
coplanar loops wouldn't be at all hard to construct.


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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Re: Topband: Reversebeacon S/N interpretation

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks for the info, Tim. ON5KQ is one of our long-time RBN 
contributors, with something like the reference configuration (QS1R 
receiver, Skimmer Server 1.40.0.138, Aggregator 4.1).  I wonder if maybe 
he has a very close station on 160M or AM broadcast whose signal drives 
his RX into clipping. I had to put in a high-pass filter here to control 
the effects of an AM station on 1550 KHz, but only during daytime, 
because at night it runs 6 watts(!).


The QS1R has no selectivity between the antenna and the ADC, other than 
a low-pass filter.  Measurement of SNR takes place at the instant that 
CW Skimmer Server decides that it should spot a station, and normally 
anomalous SNRs only result if another station is near zero-beat.  but 
with ADC clipping all bets are off.


73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 9/17/2015 9:18 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:

I felt conditions were really good to EU last night on 160M.

But look at these S/N numbers below that came from reversebeacon. I know
that due to measurement to measurement jitter that we have to reject
outliers.

There is a string of spots where me and other 3-landers are consistently
being spotted in EU with S/N in the 30-67 dB range.

I my experience anything above 50dB S/N, pretty much means a bonecrushing
local. This sort of consistent spotting S/N over a whole hour, is just
amazing if it was true.

The ON5KQ spots from 49dB to 67dB spots stand out as really strong, but at
same time, I worked so many small-gun ON's last night that I have never
heard on topband before, so maybe there was a supreme enhancement to
Belgium for most of that hour.

Tim N3QE

(Hope cut-and-paste job below survives E-mail)

DX continent: NA - North America / DE continent: EU - Europe / band: 160m
cancel filter selection / search spot by callsign
de dx freq cq/dx snr speed time
EA5WU NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 15 dB 24 wpm 0541z 17 Sep
EA5WU NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 27 dB 24 wpm 0520z 17 Sep
EA5WU N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 7 dB 23 wpm 0517z 17 Sep
EA5WU W4DJL 1814.5 CW CQ [LoTW] 15 dB 17 wpm 0516z 17 Sep
GW8IZR NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 12 dB 26 wpm 0510z 17 Sep
EA5WU NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 17 dB 26 wpm 0510z 17 Sep
ON5KQ NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 54 dB 26 wpm 0508z 17 Sep
GW8IZR NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 23 dB 26 wpm 0508z 17 Sep
EA5WU N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 16 dB 23 wpm 0506z 17 Sep
DF4UE NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 3 dB 25 wpm 0506z 17 Sep
ON5KQ N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 49 dB 23 wpm 0504z 17 Sep
GW8IZR W4DJL 1814.5 CW CQ [LoTW] 40 dB 17 wpm 0503z 17 Sep
EA5WU W4DJL 1814.5 CW CQ [LoTW] 31 dB 17 wpm 0503z 17 Sep
EA5WU NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 22 dB 28 wpm 0500z 17 Sep
GW8IZR N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 12 dB 22 wpm 0459z 17 Sep
ON5KQ NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 67 dB 28 wpm 0458z 17 Sep
GW8IZR NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 35 dB 28 wpm 0458z 17 Sep
EA5WU N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 18 dB 23 wpm 0457z 17 Sep
ON5KQ W4DJL 1814.5 CW CQ [LoTW] 16 dB 17 wpm 0456z 17 Sep
ON5KQ N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 59 dB 22 wpm 0452z 17 Sep
DF4UE NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 23 dB 28 wpm 0452z 17 Sep
ON5KQ N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 61 dB 23 wpm 0450z 17 Sep
GW8IZR N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 16 dB 23 wpm 0449z 17 Sep
EA5WU NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 28 dB 31 wpm 0447z 17 Sep
GW8IZR NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 34 dB 30 wpm 0447z 17 Sep
ON5KQ NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 39 dB 30 wpm 0447z 17 Sep
EA5WU N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 30 dB 23 wpm 0446z 17 Sep
DF4UE NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 3 dB 24 wpm 0443z 17 Sep
GW8IZR NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 14 dB 29 wpm 0440z 17 Sep
GW8IZR N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 10 dB 22 wpm 0439z 17 Sep
ON5KQ NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 10 dB 26 wpm 0437z 17 Sep
EA5WU N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 6 dB 23 wpm 0435z 17 Sep
DF4UE N3RR 1820.5 CW CQ [LoTW] 32 dB 23 wpm 0435z 17 Sep
S50ARX N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 18 dB 23 wpm 0433z 17 Sep
GW8IZR N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 42 dB 22 wpm 0428z 17 Sep
EA5WU N3RR 1823.0 CW CQ [LoTW] 23 dB 22 wpm 0420z 17 Sep
ON5KQ N3RR 1823.0 CW CQ [LoTW] 20 dB 22 wpm 0420z 17 Sep
GW8IZR N3RR 1823.0 CW CQ [LoTW] 15 dB 22 wpm 0418z 17 Sep
GW8IZR N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 42 dB 22 wpm 0417z 17 Sep
ON5KQ N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 4 dB 23 wpm 0414z 17 Sep
GW8IZR N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 7 dB 23 wpm 0408z 17 Sep
DF4UE N3QE 1821.6 CW CQ [LoTW] 5 dB 23 wpm 0406z 17 Sep
SV8RV NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 6 dB 26 wpm 0404z 17 Sep
GW8IZR NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 9 dB 26 wpm 0404z 17 Sep
S50ARX NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 6 dB 27 wpm 0403z 17 Sep
DF4UE NO3M 1824.7 CW CQ [LoTW] 7 dB 25 wpm 0400z 17 Sep
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Topband: Which 4 directions?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I'm planning to build and deploy 4 receiving antennasfor 160M this 
summer - some mix of BOGs, K9AYs, etc.Question is, where would you aim 
them, from a QTH 60 miles NW of Washington DC. My main objective is to 
finish my 160M DXCC, now hovering at 72 worked. The quantitative 
constraint is due to the switching system I have in place.


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

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Re: Topband: BCB Inv L

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Sure is - Randall Mullinax, AD5RM.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 3/27/2015 11:12 PM, Art Snapper wrote:

The radio station engineer in Moore, OK tuned a broken tower to get the
station back on the air.
It reminds me of an inverted L. Perhaps he is a ham.

*http://tinyurl.com/qh8rxmz http://tinyurl.com/qh8rxmz*
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Topband: isolation transformer(s) in RX antenna feedlines (?)

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I ran across a sketchy reference to this idea, described as a way to 
block common mode signals from making it into the shack by cutting off 
the paths from the coax shield to the RX input.  Is there anything to 
the idea?


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

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Re: Topband: Shunt feeding tower

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Reading about 3-wire cages and the like, I feel a serious case of shunt 
envy.  Mine is a single wire about 18 inches from one corner of my Rohn 
25, connected to the tower at about 50 feet.  I used an omega match with 
a couple of 3 KV transmitting variables, because my tower is quite tall 
for 160 (97 feet with 3 yagis, 2 on top) and I could not find a 50-ohm 
point.It was absurdly easy to adjust and seems to work quite well at 100 
watts.  I'm sure there are better solutions (including Herb's), but this 
was really simple.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 8/26/2014 5:12 PM, Don wrote:

I would like to get on 160 this question most likely has been asked a 1000 time 
but I need information as how or can I shunt feed my 55 ft rohn 45 .

Don
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Re: Topband: Skimmer calibration

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

It's also worth mentioning that you can evade the Skimmer's wait 10 
minutes before re-spotting limitation simply by QSYing 500 Hz or 
sobefore re-sending - that way you can get a lot of data points in a 
relatively short period.  So long as you use TEST as your keyword rather 
than CQ, and stay out of other people's way, nobody should be upset.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 8/18/2014 12:16 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
This is why some time and multiple skimmers must be involved in the 
statisticsotherwise data doesn't mean much.


Without skimmer I never settled on antennas until many dozens of blind 
AB test reports. I think skimmer is a more accurate way, because the 
human at the RX end is out of the picture.





There's a lot of scatter in the dB measurements from skimmers. If I see
dozens of spots graphed on the reversebeacon spots comparison tool 
then I

can believe systemic differences like 3-5dB. But I could never draw that
conclusion over a single pair of spots.

Any given skimmer will spot a given station on a given frequency at most
once every ten minutes. But when the geographic density of skimmers is
large enough (e.g. East coast US or Western Europe) just raw 
quantities or

breadth of spots starts being more interesting than exact dB level. Even
with the paucity of skimmers on west coast of US, I can still see who 
has a

4-square for transmit and how they steer it during the contest.

Tim N3QE



On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:53 AM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote:




I am not a Skimmer expert, and am just asking. Question:  Are all the
Skimmers individually(and collectively) calibrated in concert? Can 
one rely
on them for comparing scientific data and conclusion to prove or 
ascertain

a point?Val

Val,

A live comparison of S/N ratio or relative level over time is with very
few exceptions an excellent comparative test. It is much more 
accurate than
S meters or absolute levels without a comparison reference. As such, 
the

RBN is a great tool for evaluating systems.

The problems are:

1.)  For determining small differences, less than around 5 dB, you 
have to
know the performance level of the reference antenna or station. (For 
that

reason, I use a simple dipole reference.)

2.) The reference and AUT (antenna under test) have to be reasonably 
close

together to eliminate propagation variances, but not so close as to
interact, and they have to be in the clear. For example, it would be
foolish for me to plant a dipole in the middle of a bunch of Yagi 
antennas

and call it a reference, or put the antenna being evaluated in an
obstructed area.

3.) On skywave, there has to be some time involved with readings 
averaged
over time. This is somewhat true if there is more than a few 
wavelengths

distance between antennas, and especially true (almost critical) when
comparing different polarization antennas.

4.) Ideally the reference and AUT should be the same polarization, 
unless

we simply want to know which is louder overall.

5.) Antennas have sweet and sour heights for a given set of 
conditions. We
have to be very careful of this. This is especially true when 
antennas are
more than a half wavelength high above ground, because the antenna 
pattern
will be a series of deep nulls that selectively notch out a given 
wave

angle.

The RBN is an excellent tool. It does not need to be calibrated in
absolute level, only in dB, and dB to noise is just fine provided 
the noise

level of the receive site is steady.

One thing I hope we all can do is stop acting so American (we are now
what, 30th or 40th in math and science?) and get back to constructive
exchanges of information. If we stop learning and just pick a 
position and
fight, which is our trend today, this becomes a useless hobby and 
there is

no reason to communicate.

73 Tom
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Topband: DC bias tee question

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I've been looking at the Shared Apex Loop, and one thing I am puzzled by 
(among many) is that the bias tee/DC coupler circuit has both sides of 
the 75-ohm feed coming in from the antenna and the DC supplied to the 
coupler totally isolated from ground, while the ground side of the coax 
going to the receiver is connected to ground.  Having recently been 
totally defeated in building a bias tee of my own for receive antenna 
switching, I wonder if maybe this is a subtlety of the design that had 
escaped me.


Can anyone clear this up? I'll be glad to share the schematic if the 
above isn't enough information.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

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Re: Topband: Crossed Field Antenna

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

From Wikip[edia - A *crossed field antenna*, or CFA, is a 
controversial type of radio antenna 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_%28radio%29 for long 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwave and mediumwave 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediumwave broadcasting 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcasting, patented by F. M. Kabbary 
and M. C. Hately in 1986, which was claimed to have the same efficiency 
as a conventional antenna but only one-tenth the overall height. The 
invention was received with incredulity from experts in electromagnetics 
and antenna technology owing to the deficient theoretical justifications 
offered and the lack of viable experimental verification.^[1] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossed_field_antenna#cite_note-Hansen-1 
Although the antenna was installed in a few broadcasting stations in the 
1990s, performance has not borne out the claims of the inventors.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 4/9/2014 9:28 PM, Michael St. Angelo wrote:

It's been quiet on this group.

The April 9th issue of Radio World Magazine has an article about the Crossed
field Antenna.

An company, Crossed Field Antennas LTD, Has filed a comment with the FCC
espousing its advantages:

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view?id=6017582994

This should rustle you from you winter doldrums..

73,

Mike N2MS

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Re: Topband: Passive Receive Antenna Splitter

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Typically the CATV splitters are marked 5-1000 MHz or similar.  I've 
often wondered how much rolloff there was beyond the basic 3-4 dB down 
at topband.  I have a Clifton that I built myself, but have not been 
able to achieve the insertion loss and isolation specs - which may well 
be my fault.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 3/13/2014 11:07 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


I use a couple of old CATV splitters for general purposes around here
and can't measure any excess (more than 3 - 4 dB) loss from common to
either port.

If you want a known good design to build some of your own, try:
   http://cliftonlaboratories.com/z10050a_3_db_hybrid.htm

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 3/13/2014 9:13 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:

Can anyone point me to a design for a splitter for sharing a Beverage
antenna between two receivers?  This is for Field Day so these are not
optimized Beverages by any means.

Just want to allow the 80/40M stations to share antennas. Nothing fancy.

My thoughts are to just use a CATV 2-Way splitter at the output of the
Beverage matching transformer and run separate feed-lines to each radio.
I'm pretty sure these things work down to 1 MHz but have not measured
them.  I can use the pre-amp in the radio (K3) to compensate for the 
loss.


Thoughts?


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Re: Topband: In search of resonance

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

To my amazement, a 5000-watt AM station on 1550 KHz 5 miles away is 
enough to clobber my MFJ-259's usefulness during the day.  Fortunately 
they drop to 6 watts at local sundown (what do you suppose that is, a 
single 6L6?)


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 1/30/2014 9:22 PM, chetmoore wrote:

Thanks for this tidbit of information.  As soon as this white manure melts
(some people call it snow)   I will do a re-check on my shunt fed tower.  I
think I did have at least one  dip to zero and never did find a resonance
point.

Thanks

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:34 PM
To: Tree
Cc: 160; Carl Braun
Subject: Re: Topband: In search of resonance



You might be dealing with AM BCB being detected by the meter - and
masking what you are looking for.


No, because he gets a dip to zero reactance.

If that happens anywhere, there is no BCI.


73 Tom

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Re: Topband: In search of resonance

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

On 160, that is.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 1/31/2014 6:27 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
To my amazement, a 5000-watt AM station on 1550 KHz 5 miles away is 
enough to clobber my MFJ-259's usefulness during the day. Fortunately 
they drop to 6 watts at local sundown (what do you suppose that is, a 
single 6L6?)


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 1/30/2014 9:22 PM, chetmoore wrote:
Thanks for this tidbit of information.  As soon as this white manure 
melts
(some people call it snow)   I will do a re-check on my shunt fed 
tower.  I
think I did have at least one  dip to zero and never did find a 
resonance

point.

Thanks

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
Tom W8JI

Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:34 PM
To: Tree
Cc: 160; Carl Braun
Subject: Re: Topband: In search of resonance



You might be dealing with AM BCB being detected by the meter - and
masking what you are looking for.


No, because he gets a dip to zero reactance.

If that happens anywhere, there is no BCI.


73 Tom

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Topband: Remote RX antenna switch - the end of the story

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I'm getting aHeathkit 1480 - this homebrew thing simply isn't worth the 
tens of hours I've put in, all to no avail.  Thanks to everyone for 
trying to help.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
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Topband: oil-submerged variables

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks, everyone.  I had not thought about the possible difference 
between 600M and 160 in terms of heating. Jon's suggestion of using big 
old micas sure seems like a good one if I can find what I need.  As a 
refugee from the BC-610 era I'm amazed that any are still around!


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Speking of Hardline

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I don't know about anyone else's cable company, but when the prices of 
scrap metal went up a few years ago Comcast emptied out their local 
scrap yard.  Actually, I'm just supposing that's the reason. I got a lot 
of good stuff there while they were willing to let it go.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 1/30/2014 1:32 PM, Ray Benny wrote:

Have you tried the actual cable companies? My local Cableone cable service
gave me a spool with about 800 ft on it. At the time, they had probably 6 -
8 spools with odds lengths in their yard, so giving one away was no big
deal.

Sometimes a case of beer helps make a deal!

Ray,
N6VR
Chino Valley


On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com wrote:


I've asked the local cable installers if they have any extra hardline
 no cigar. I need around 400' of it so Andrews is out of the
question. I'd like the 50 ohm line but will probably have to settle
for aluminum jacketed 75 ohm line.

Any suggestions where else I might look to find something used?

73,

Gary
KA1J

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Topband: End of a bias tee adventure?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

After making all of the recommended changes, I hooked up my MFJ and got 
650 readings regardless.  When connected to a 75 ohm dummy load, it 
reads completely normally, as does shorting the input (R=0_  If I had 
managed to damage the MFJ with DC voltage on the input, would you expect 
no readings at all (650 everywhere)?


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Buffaloed by a bias tee

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Hi.  Well, it does indeed seem to clinch it - when I power the tee but 
don't draw any current, the impedance measured by the MFJ does not 
change.  So now to find some of the right sort of RFC.


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 1/22/2014 6:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:



On 1/22/2014 12:32 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
. However,

as soon as I connect a 12V regulated supply to the bias tee - one of the
little radio shack variable wallwarts - the measured R drops to 5 ohms
and the X goes up to 19.


Possibly the current through the choke is saturating it.
If you connect the power supply but disconnect the load drawing
current, does the impedance go back to normal?  That would
clinch it.

For the choke, be sure that you are NOT using a toroidal choke.
It needs to be a solenoidal type wound on a ferrite rod.
Also, do NOT use shielded inductors.  Ferrite beads will
also saturate.  Most chokes you come across are the wrong
kind.  I just bought some chokes today.  They only had two
bins of suitable ones, out of several thousand bins of inductors.

45 uH is a little marginal, but doesn't explain your problem.
100 uH would be better.

Rick N6RK



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Re: Topband: Buffaloed by a bias tee

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Tom, I appreciate your concern. I have made these changes - I am now 
using a shunt choke (homebrew,, measuring 45 uH) and a smaller series 
capacitor..  Now all I have to do is to find a source of some 
appropriate chokes for the final tee, and my problems may be behind me. 
I was just looking at some Hammond chokes, no. 1532h - 100 uH, rated for 
maximum DC current of 500 ma., solenoid wound, self-resonant frequency 
of 12 MHz.  Sound reasonable?


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 1/23/2014 12:03 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:

Hi Pete,

You are going to have to trust me on this one.

You really should ***NOT*** be measuring the input of the bias T with 
the MFJ 259 B analyzer with the configuration you have.


You can damage the 259 unless you use a smaller series cap and a shunt 
choke to protect the 259. The most important point I am trying to make 
is ***NEVER*** connect a bias T without a shunt choke, especially one 
with a large series coupling cap, to the 259 input port. The 259 uses 
10 volt rated microwave diodes, and the charging current of the cap 
can cause that much or more voltage to appear across the diodes.


Also, if you have a relay outdoors or somewhere, the back EMF from 
field collapse can kill the diodes.


I say this all with significant experience on the 259B design. The MFJ 
259 B is not like a regular receiver or transmitter. You are, in 
effect, charging a .1uF cap to 12-15 volts through the input port of 
the 259.


It's your analyzer, but I can tell you I would not allow anyone here 
to do what you are doing with my network analyzers, vector voltmeters, 
or my 259B's. I have lost $30K network analyzer diodes that way, 
vector voltmeters, and MFJ259/269 diodes that way.


Also, your test does not prove a thing at this point. It does not 
prove the inductance is changing. It does not prove the inductance is 
not changing either.


The reason it does not prove anything either way is the MFJ is 
sensitive to ripple and noise from power supplies that are coupled to 
the input port. When you change the supply loading, you also change 
the ripple and noise.


So you could be measuring the choke and the choke could be changing, 
or you might be measuring the PS ripple or some other change. But this 
is secondary to the fact you are connecting a bias T without an input 
shunt choke to the 259.









- Original Message - From: Pete Smith N4ZR 
n...@contesting.com
To: Richard (Rick) Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com; topband 
reflector Topband@contesting.com

Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: Buffaloed by a bias tee


Hi.  Well, it does indeed seem to clinch it - when I power the tee 
but don't draw any current, the impedance measured by the MFJ does 
not change. So now to find some of the right sort of RFC.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 1/22/2014 6:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:



On 1/22/2014 12:32 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
. However,
as soon as I connect a 12V regulated supply to the bias tee - one 
of the

little radio shack variable wallwarts - the measured R drops to 5 ohms
and the X goes up to 19.


Possibly the current through the choke is saturating it.
If you connect the power supply but disconnect the load drawing
current, does the impedance go back to normal?  That would
clinch it.

For the choke, be sure that you are NOT using a toroidal choke.
It needs to be a solenoidal type wound on a ferrite rod.
Also, do NOT use shielded inductors.  Ferrite beads will
also saturate.  Most chokes you come across are the wrong
kind.  I just bought some chokes today.  They only had two
bins of suitable ones, out of several thousand bins of inductors.

45 uH is a little marginal, but doesn't explain your problem.
100 uH would be better.

Rick N6RK



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Topband: Buffaloed by a bias tee

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I'm still wrestling with the bias tee for my 1-of-8 remote beverage 
switch.  If I use a cliplead to connect a 270-ohm dummy load, bypassing 
the relay, and connect an MFJ-259B to the receiver port on the 
controller, the impedance looks completely reasonable - with a 3:1 
binocular transformer, 89 ohms R  and X=5, measured by the MFJ.  
However, as soon as I connect a 12V regulated supply to the bias tee - 
one of the little radio shack variable wallwarts - the measured R drops 
to 5 ohms and the X goes up to 19.


My history major's diagnosis is inadequate isolation between the DC 
supply and the RFline, but why?  The series RF choke in the DC line is 7 
turns on a ferrite core, measures 45 uH at 2 MHZ, and the bypass 
capacitor is a 0.01 uF disk, on thesupply side of the choke.  Theseries 
cap between the Antenna and the RX jacks on the controller is a .1 uF 
disk (it was what I had).  I do not yet have a safety choke between the 
RX side and ground, but will add one before I deploy it, if I can ever 
figure out what's going on.


I'd really appreciate some ideas of what to try.  Thanks in advance!

--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Topband: Buffaloed by a bias tee

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions - consensus seems to be that 
the homebrew chokes are not enough reactance at 1.8 MHz, so I'll get 
some store bought ones at 220 uH or more.  I tried battery power for the 
whole system, but no difference. I'm going to try battery power for the 
remote box and omitting the bias tee entirely, at least as a test.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Easy-to-learn 160 contest logging program?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

It would make sense to raise this on n1mmlog...@yahoogroups.com.  For 
that matter, a quick search will find a number of recent threads on 
exactly this topic.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
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On 12/4/2013 1:12 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

Thanks for all the recommendations for N1MM, but I am just unable to
install it on my shack's Linux computer. Under WINE, I get a database
run-time error after I do the latest update. And there's something wrong
with my Virtualbox Windows XP installation on that machine that I don't
have time to fix.

How about Trlog for DOS? There is NO price or purchase info at
http://www.trlog.com, nor does it say what contests the free version
supports.

I'll look at the others soon.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com
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Topband: Spam apparently from me

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I am starting to get bounce notices for mail I didn't send, some of it 
with a bogus name associated with my address, so it looks like one of 
the creeps out there has my address.  If you see anything atypical from 
my address, please delete it.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Topband: Replacing F Connectors with BNCs

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I have finally decided to go through my RX antenna systems and replace 
all the F connectors with BNCs.  My coax is all RG-6 Quad shield.  I 
would like to find an all-crimp BNC male solution, or failing that, one 
that only requires soldering the center conductor.


Any advice on which connectors would be best, or which to stay away from?

--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Replacing F Connectors with BNCs

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

That is certainly possible, Frank - I've been using Ideal compression 
connectors from Home Depot.  I have not had any reliability problems 
with them at all - they are just a pita to connect and disconnect.


If a BNC is wrapped with Scotch 2242, over-wrapped with Scotch 88+, and 
not submerged, shouldn't that be adequate?


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 11/14/2013 7:31 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Pete,

I wonder why you've decided to switch to BNCs?   They have their own issues and 
they've completely unsuitable for outdoor use.
I wonder if perhaps you've been using poor quality F connectors?

73
Frank
W3LPL


- Original Message -
From: Pete Smith N4ZR lt;n...@contesting.comgt;
To: Topband@contesting.com
Sent: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 07:24:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Topband: Replacing F Connectors with BNCs

I have finally decided to go through my RX antenna systems and replace
all the F connectors with BNCs. My coax is all RG-6 Quad shield. I
would like to find an all-crimp BNC male solution, or failing that, one
that only requires soldering the center conductor.

Any advice on which connectors would be best, or which to stay away from?



_
Topband Reflector

Topband: bias tee

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I am using my coax to feed 12 VDC to my remote RX antenna locations, 
using a traditional bias tee, but am having some trouble with 
performance.  I'm using 100 uH Radio Shack chokes in my bias tee, and am 
wondering if perhaps that is insufficient inductance for 160 meter 
operation.  If so, what would be an appropriate value?


--
73, Pete N4ZR
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Re: Topband: Replacing F Connectors with BNCs

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks, all - you've persuaded me.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
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On 11/14/2013 8:14 AM, George Dubovsky wrote:

Pete,

I recommend you stay with the F-connectors. BNCs are fine in a lab 
environment where cables must be disconnected often, but their 
convenience factor comes with a trade-off in reliability. If, however, 
you are connecting and disconnecting F-connectors a lot, the female F 
will start to show reliability problems also.


73,

geo - n4ua


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR n...@contesting.com 
mailto:n...@contesting.com wrote:


That is certainly possible, Frank - I've been using Ideal
compression connectors from Home Depot.  I have not had any
reliability problems with them at all - they are just a pita to
connect and disconnect.

If a BNC is wrapped with Scotch 2242, over-wrapped with Scotch
88+, and not submerged, shouldn't that be adequate?


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com
http://reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 11/14/2013 7:31 AM, donov...@starpower.net
mailto:donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Pete,

I wonder why you've decided to switch to BNCs?   They have
their own issues and they've completely unsuitable for outdoor
use.
I wonder if perhaps you've been using poor quality F connectors?

73
Frank
W3LPL


- Original Message -
From: Pete Smith N4ZR lt;n...@contesting.com
mailto:lt%3bn...@contesting.comgt;
To: Topband@contesting.com mailto:Topband@contesting.com
Sent: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 07:24:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Topband: Replacing F Connectors with BNCs

I have finally decided to go through my RX antenna systems and
replace
all the F connectors with BNCs. My coax is all RG-6 Quad shield. I
would like to find an all-crimp BNC male solution, or failing
that, one
that only requires soldering the center conductor.

Any advice on which connectors would be best, or which to stay
away from?


_
Topband Reflector




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Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

And for more info, send him $3.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
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For spots, please go to your favorite
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On 10/16/2013 11:01 AM, N4XM Paul D. Schrader wrote:

Jim,

I did not make the comments you said I made below.  And the XMATCH Antenna
Tuner is NOT a T match.
It is a patented circuit.  This unique circuit is a United States Patent.

And see http://n4xm.myiglou.com

Paul  N4XM


At 12:56 PM 10/8/2013 -0500, you wrote:

Tom W8JI made some measurements back in 1997 on the ATR-15 when it first
came out. Not sure how this will print out.

*
*

*The ATR-15 measures as follows for load R and loss on 1.8 MHz:
12.5 ohms 21.8%(27.8%)
25 ohms 16.5%  (22.9)
50 ohms 10.6%  (11.0)
100 ohms 8.9%  (10.7)
200 ohms 8.1%  (10.4)
400 ohms 7.4%  (10.1)
800 ohms 6.9%  (8.8%)*


Doubling the value of C cuts low impedance losses in half. I put 500 pF
air variable caps in the ATR-15 and the 12.5 ohm loss was 13.1 percent.

I don't even come close to the MFJ-989 results they published. I
measured the values (they are the ones in brackets above) for the 989
using both an HP 4191A analyzer and a Harris RF voltmeter, as well as
confirmed on meters.


My question is where in the tee match was the extra capacitance installed?
was it going to ground?

N4XM commented in 1997  on the MFJ 989 review.


*T network tuners (like the 989, Xmatch, Vectronics, Tucker, *
*Murch, etc) handle the least power on 160 and with capacitive*
*reactance low resistance loads. T network tuners handle MORE *
*power into higher resistance loads or loads with some amount *
*of inductive reactance. *


w8JI comments


*L network tuners (like the Ten-Tec, Nye Viking, etc) handle more*
*power into impedances near 50 ohms, but often do a poor job *
*matching reactive or very low impedance loads on low frequencies.

(Sometimes*

*these tuners are called Pi-networks, even though*
*they do not really function as a pi except perhaps on 15 or ten*
*meters) *
**
*In a T network tuner, maximum efficiency and power handling *
*generally occurs when maximum and equal amounts of *
*capacitance are used in the capacitors, and the least amount of*
*inductance is used. This is true even though many other settings*
*will produce a low SWR.*



I later read more archives.  What came up was the ATR-30  How beefy it was.
What the plate spacing on this tuners capacitors?  I would think on a
short antenna like mine it is not enough.

So back to the ATR-10.  The W8JI design with variable taps seams to handle
high power with nor arcing problems.
I just do not know why this is working for me. Can some one please explain
this to me I am confused?  All this reading
requires a younger mind.

Jim K9TF

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Jim GM jim.gmfo...@gmail.com wrote:


My antenna is a 99 foot inverted L for 160M with 95 short radials 2000
feet of wire.

What I am trying now is W8JI suggested modification design to improve the
ATR-10 design by taps on the coil for adjustment. Works well.
http://www.w8ji.com/antenna_tuners.htm

Had my MFJ-989B at the feed point, I had to add a capacitor to ground
250pf so it could work. Inductance was at max farthest away from ground.
Voltage was so high at 300 watts in, the 0.125 meshed plate spacing arced
over, it has a T network and I had expected this to happen.
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/support/MFJ-989B/MFJ-989B.pdf  I run 500
watts.

What I was looking at is removing the coil and the input would be at the
top of C1. I made a test with QRP using 2 small spaced caps taken out of an
MFJ-901A. Works well. Because of the high voltage situation would there be
an issue with this and I need to go to a 0.25 inch spacing between plates?
  Vacuum variables are out of my price range.

ATR-10 with W8JI modifications is a high pass tuner or is it?  Removal of
the coil would make this a low pass circuit. Besides that on 160M which one
would be more efficient, and off the top of your head what would be the
percentages?  If you had my make do with what I have setup, what tuning
network would you use?

Does any one have an email address for MFJ Service department?  I have the
wrong one.  I sent my MFJ 998RT to their Service department, the High
voltage that was developed with 300 watts pretty much done it in. The
ATR-10 W8JI redesign has greatly reduce the High voltage that I was seeing
with out the inductor.

--
Jim K9TF




--
Jim K9TF
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Re: Topband: 160 and 80 meter QRN prediction

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Shouldn't you also look at lightning activity on the path between you 
and your area of interest?  I've found quite often that the day after a 
big eastward-moving storm, there is a lot of noise on my path to Europe.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
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blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
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On 5/12/2013 12:24 AM, Mike Waters wrote:

I've found a web site that tells us if it might be worth getting on the
radio during spring through fall thunderstorm seasons.

http://www.intellicast.com/Storm/Severe/Lightning.aspx is the current USA
Lightning map. (Sometimes I just open the main image there [
http://images.intellicast.com/WxImages/Lightning/usa.jpg] in a tab of its
own, and refresh it every so often). If the big USA map is full of yellow
or red in your area of the USA, QRN is probably bad. If not, maybe it's
worth getting on the air.

But look at two of the small clickable maps above the main map (current
Lightning Strikes); specifically Severe Today and Severe Tomorrow. I've
found them fairly accurate predictors of current and future (tonight and
tomorrow night) QRN conditions on 160 and 80.


Also, http://webflash.ess.washington.edu/L_plot_global_map.jpg gives us QRN
(lightning) conditions in whatever DX country we might be interested in
working.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com
All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
_
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All good topband ops know how to put up a beverage at night.
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Re: Topband: Problem with compression F connectors on Quad RG-6

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Back on the subject of RG-6, Ideal specifies folding back the top layer 
of braid, cutting off the first foil layer, then folding back the second 
layer of braid.  The trouble is that on my cable, the second foil layer 
is mylar, aluminized on the outside.  On the one hand this means good 
contact between the aluminum layer and the inner braid, but when you put 
on the connector it folds the inner mylar back, exposing the dielectric 
and putting the blue mylar side up over at least part of the 
circumference.  I can see that in a worst case situation that could 
insulate the inner aluminized mylar from the connector, but don't know 
if it would really matter since the inner braid is folded back and 
making a good compression connection both to the inner foil and to the 
connector shell.


What role does skin effect have in this situation - at 1.8 MHz?

73, Pete N4ZR
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For spots, please go to your favorite
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On 5/5/2013 11:08 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
How about folding the shields back a little? I think that's a 
superior way

of doing it as opposed to cutting them all flush with the jacket.


Be careful doing that or using any non-approved assembly method, or 
using improper connectors. Many cables (I'm not sure exactly what 
percentage, but I saw a lot of them) aluminize mylar to form the foil 
shield. You can usually see the mylar on close inspection, it often is 
blue or a blue tint. This insulates one side of the foil.


The shield that must have the best integrity at connectors is the 
shield just outside to the center conductor. Nearly all shield current 
in on the inside of that shield. If you do not get a good solid 
connection to the INSIDE wall of that shield, the cable will have all 
sorts of issues. It doesn't matter how solid outside shield 
connections are, because the innermost surface of the innermost shield 
does all of the real work.


The inner wall connection can be, and usually is, by conduction across 
the cut end of the shield. Say the inner shield is mylar on the 
dielectric side, or bonded to the dielectric. The bare outside 
contacts the braid with pressure. The current just travels across the 
cut end edge (a very short path) to the inside of the inner shield.


If you do something to miss that good solid end connection to the 
inner foil edge, like folding a mylar shield over so blue side is 
out,  the connection is by stray coupling over what can be a pretty 
long length of cable, adding many feet to the shield connection 
path.Or you might have no connection at all.


I generally avoid quad shield, because the extra layers are 
unnecessary and can often cause connection problems. This is 
especially true outside with lightning and age.


I asked a question here some months ago about whether or not that 
should be
done or not on my flooded quad-shield F-6 (the CATV alum. shield 
version of

RG-6) that I use for my Beverages and to feed my inverted-L. Some people
said absolutely not! and others said absolutely they should!.


People do all sorts of strange things with shields. With copper braid, 
aluminum braid, or solid aluminum foil (not aluminized mylar) you can 
do almost anything at HF and get away with it. I see people fold the 
shield back over RG-8 and screw the connector over it! Just because it 
works in some cases, that doesn't mean it is a good idea.


One cable that is really misused is LMR400. If you solder to the braid 
on LMR400, you set yourself up for shield connection problems. This is 
because the inner foil, and that is the real shield, often moves away 
from the braid and makes a sloppy connection. Sometimes wiggling the 
cable will make the electrical length of the cable change, and shield 
integrity is all over the place, when the cable is soldered. This 
generally won't hurt with dipoles, but it can with critical 
applications. Crimps actually make a better connection.


Since folding them back is the only way of being sure that the braids 
are

all making contact with the shell of the F connector, I now fold the
shields back a little in my snap-and-seal F connectors. How can that 
hurt

anything? I think it's a better way to do it.


I would always use the correct connector, and install the connectors 
the way the connector and cable manufacturer say. They usually know 
more about their products than we do.  :-)


It is a bad idea to improve installation instructions without 
understanding the product in precise detail. How many people do you 
think understand the issue caused by overlaying a foil shield with 
braid, and soldering to the braid?


73 Tom
All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector



All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Problem with compression F connectors on Quad RG-6

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Very interesting, Jim - I have been using Ideal connectors from Home 
Depot, and they have no color band at all (nor do they have decent 
instructions for installing).  I will try to find some of the 
black-banded ones (I have red-banded ones for RG-59).


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 5/4/2013 11:13 PM, Jim Garland wrote:

I'm sure most of you know this already, but there are different compression
F-connectors for ordinary RG6 and for quad-shield RG6.  I use Ideal brand
connectors with matching compression tool, and there is a color-coded band
for the two types of cables (blue for RG6 and black for quad-shield). It is
not always easy to find the installation instructions, but for quad shield
especially, it is very important to follow the directions so as to make sure
the multiple aluminum foil and braided shields make appropriate contact at
the connector, just as Tom cautions.
73,
Jim W8ZR


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom

W8JI

Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 6:08 PM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Problem with compression F connectors on Quad RG-6


I'm having a repeated weird problem with compression F connectors on
quad-shield RG6.  When I connect a short length (say 4 feet) of cable to
my MFJ-259B, I would expect R650.  Instead, when I wiggle the coax,
occasionally I see the display change to R=0 and X= several hundred ohms
at 1.8 MHz.  This makes no sense to me - the R implies ashort, but

where's

all the X coming from?

R doesn't come from a short, it comes from no loss resistance, or more
correctly very low loss resistance.

It sounds like the connector you have is not contacting all the shields.
This is typical for mismatched connectors and cable,  or improperly
manufactured cables. It could be somewhere else also, but I've seen this
before with quad shield. That's why I avoid it.


  The problem seems to vary with the same

connector and different PL-259 to F adapters, which makes me wonder what
might be happening inside the adapters, but I can't imagine anything
producing this result.  I have also been unsuccessful in detecting a

short

using a simple DC multimeter.


Remember how RF current flows. It flows on the outside of cables, unless

it

has a connection path to the inner shield. If you have cable with Mylar on
the inside of one or more shield layers, and a connector that only

contacts

the outside of the outer shield, the inner shields that carry nearly all

of

the desired transmission line currents will be insulated and isolated from
the shield at the connector.  Every shield has to be contacted at the
connector, or at least the inner shield does.

This might not be it, but it is a common issue with quad shield. Dual

shield

is much more forgiving of connectors.  You'll never detect the leakage in
dual shield in outside runs. If you have nasty common mode problems, a
thicker shield will help. It is also just as simple to add a few dozen or
few hundred ohms of common mode choking to regular dual shield cables and
knock down CM ingress to levels that cannot be noticed.


I;'m wondering if I should go through my RX antennas and replace all the

F

connectors and particularly the F to 259 adapters with something else,

but

what?  BNCs?

BNC's are worse yet, as a general rule. They rely on spring pressure for

the

shield path. Look into a type match error between the cable you have and

the

connectors, or a connector installation error.

73 Tom

All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector

All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector



All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: Problem with compression F connectors on Quad RG-6

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I'm having a repeated weird problem with compression F connectors on 
quad-shield RG6.  When I connect a short length (say 4 feet) of cable to 
my MFJ-259B, I would expect R650.  Instead, when I wiggle the coax, 
occasionally I see the display change to R=0 and X= several hundred ohms 
at 1.8 MHz.  This makes no sense to me - the R implies ashort, but 
where's all the X coming from?  The problem seems to vary with the same 
connector and different PL-259 to F adapters, which makes me wonder what 
might be happening inside the adapters, but I can't imagine anything 
producing this result.  I have also been unsuccessful in detecting a 
short using a simple DC multimeter.


I;'m wondering if I should go through my RX antennas and replace all the 
F connectors and particularly the F to 259 adapters with something else, 
but what?  BNCs?


Anyone have any wisdom?

--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: binocular matching transformers - Solved

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks to everyone who helped me straighten this out.  Changing from 2:4 
to 4:8 turns made all the difference, probably, as a couple of people 
suggested, because only two turns ion the primary is inadequate.  
Anyhow, everything now behaves as expected, so it's time (as soon as the 
snow melts) to put it back out in the field and see how it plays.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite


All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: binocular matching transformers

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Please have mercy on a history major...

I'm trying to wind a binoocular core matching transformer for 75-ohm 
coax to a BOG with (for a start) 270 ohms of terminating resistance.  I 
figure that is a 4:1 stepdown, which should require a turns ratio of 
2:1.  Initially I wound a #73 core with identical windings, 3 passes each.


I put this on the output of my MFJ-259 with a 270-ohm resistance on the 
secondary.  To my surprise the MFJ read 135 ohms, not 270 as I would 
have expected.  Is this not appropriate as a way of measuring the 
transformer?  Should I just go ahead and wind 2:1, and if so, how many 
turns/passes are appropriate for 160M?


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

All good topband ops know fine whiskey is a daylight beverage.
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

The other rule that seems to apply, based on a number of pretty serious 
articles, including K3LC's NCJ series in the mid-2000s,is they that 
has, gets.  By which I mean, if you have good ground conductivity, a 
relatively sparse radial field can work better than a really extensive 
radial field on lousy ground.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 3/6/2013 11:54 AM, ZR wrote:
Since the radial field for any height vertical has equal importance 
the only way to get 1/4 wave efficiency is to have zero RF loss in the 
loading coil and matching network. Cryogenics anyone?


There is no magic wire minimalist radial or counterpoise that 
accomplishes that. All they provide is some improvement over a poor on 
ground radial attempt; I wont call it a radial system.


Carl
KM1H



- Original Message - From: Rick Karlquist 
rich...@karlquist.com

To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials



One of the problems with discussing this topic is that
nearly all studies of radials deal with 1/4 wave verticals.
Most ham stations including mine don't have the luxury of
a height of 130 feet.

There are many cases where some novel grounding scheme
is touted as just as good as 120 radials and indeed it
may be for the 1/4 wave height case.

What is scarce is advice for the owner of a short vertical
as to what to do about grounding.  What grounding scheme
would it take to make the proverbial 43 foot vertical play
as good as a 130 foot vertical?  Whatever that scheme is,
we know that it will have very narrow bandwidth.  This is
a good litmus test to separate short vertical installations
worthy of additional testing from low efficiency ones.  Of course, 
narrow

bandwidth is merely necessary, but not sufficient, to
prove high efficiency.  The advantage of the bandwidth
criterion is that it is easily and unambiguously measured,
as opposed to field strength.  The bandwidth should ideally
be determined by measuring the antenna drive impedance
directly, rather than looking at it through a matching
network.  A matching network will to a greater or lesser
extent decrease the bandwidth of the antenna.  Alternately,
the matching network can be modeled to remove its effect
on bandwidth.

I think it is less likely that you can be fooled by a bandwidth
measurement than you can with base impedance measurements.


Rick
N6RK



_
Topband Reflector


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5652 - Release Date: 03/06/13



_
Topband Reflector



_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: [CQ-Contest] Wireless Remote Control Relays

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Hi Milt - do you get NCJ?  A few issues ago (May June 2012) I had an 
article in there about this.  I'm sending you a copy.  I am using these 
for an 8-way receiving antenna hub.  There are some minor operational 
issues, but the port-to-port isolation appears to be ~30 dB, which is 
adequate for me


My version is MS Word 2010 - let me know if you need an older one.  I'm 
copying this to the topband reflector, but of course the attachment will 
be stripped off.  If anyone needs one, please contact me directly.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 2/12/2013 7:19 PM, Milt -- N5IA wrote:

A question to the informed masses.

A year or so ago I purchased some wireless remote control, 8 relay, modules 
from some source on E-Bay.

Obviously at the time the units appealed to me, and apparently the price was 
right because I purchased 10 of them.

Well, they have sit in the USPS shipping box for this length of time and I am 
now trying to figure out what project I had in mind for them; and how to use 
them.

SOOO

Does anyone have any experience with these units which have a sole identifying 
mark, silk screened on the RX and relay board, of CDKZQ-8L.  The manufacture 
date is 2011.10.04.

These units apparently work on 310 MHz.  The only result I get in a web search 
is a Linear Delta Remotes company.  But nothing they show for products 
resembles these units.

The tiny remote control transmitter has larger, red colored keys numbered 1  
2, and 3-8 on smaller black colored keys.  It has a small telescoping antenna.

These units are very well constructed, operate at 12 VDC, and look to be SPDT 
relays with 3 connections per relay on the terminal boards.

Does anyone out there know anything about this unit; in particular how to 
program the channels for control of the eight relays?

For anyone wanting to see them, respond directly to me and I will send you a 
couple of jpeg images.

Thanks in advance for any assistance that can be offered.

73 de Milt, N5IA


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6099 - Release Date: 02/12/13
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_
Topband Reflector

Topband: alternative to vacuum variables

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

One of the reasons I have mot gone to high power on 160 is the cost of 
capacitors for my omega match - at least $300.  Anyone know of any 
workable alternative?  I remember someone writing about using coiled-up 
RG-8, RG-213 or maybe Teflon coax.  Where can I find more information?


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Help with RFI

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I would seriously consider going wireless.  A few years ago I had a 
direct strike on the top of my tower. Fortunately, everything was 
disconnected, so I sustained no damage in the shack.  In fact, the only 
significant damage was to two computers on a cabled Ethernet network, 
both of which showed physical signs of damage at and near the Ethernet 
port.  It was clear to me that induced current from the strike, picked 
up by the Ethernet cable, was responsible.  I switched our house over to 
wireless networking and have been completely satisfied.  It doesn't hurt 
that it all operates at UHF.


73, Pete N4ZR
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http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 1/12/2013 10:38 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

I wrap a few turns of the CAT 5 Ethernet cable coming into the back of my
shack PC around a few stacked 2.4 diameter #31 ferrite cores. Works for me.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:48 PM, W7KW w7kw.te...@gmail.com wrote:


I am having a problem with RF getting into my Ethernet cables.  Anyone
have any recommendations for a clamp-on filter that would help remove 1.8
MHz RF?


_
Topband Reflector



_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Another take on power line noise hunting

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Or, since you don't really need a calibrated result, build a simple 
variable attenuator.  Just about anything works so long as you can vary 
the sensitivity as you approach the power line.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 1/5/2013 1:17 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Paul,

You would helpful a step attenuator, in 1 dB steps, to be a valuable addition 
to your tool bag.  There are situations where it helps isolate to an individual 
pole.  Its much more accurate than an S-meter.

Something like this, or many other alternatives:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coaxial-RF-Step-Attenuator-Set-1-dB-steps-to-70-dB-total-DC-to-1-GHz-/200866468929?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2ec4931441

73
Frank
W3LPL

 Original message 

Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 11:44:08 -0500
From: N1BUG p...@n1bug.com
Subject: Topband: Another take on power line noise hunting
To: Topband topband@contesting.com

I've been following this discussion with interest. I spent the
summer tracking down more than 20 sources of power line noise. As an
offshoot of that I've made it my mission to help clean up RFI in my
little corner of the world. I've been slowly drifting away from
DXing and this has turned out to be my new area of interest.

Since this topic is perhaps of interest to topbanders, and since my
experiences seem to vary somewhat from the typical reported here so
far, I thought I would take a moment to share some observations. I
should probably note I was dealing with a mix of 13.2 kV
distribution lines and 46 kV transmission lines. My hunt was made
more challenging by the fact I had multiple sources in a relatively
small area and could often hear more than one at a time even with
directional antennas and attenuation.

My tools this summer were 135 MHz AM receiver with 3 element yagi
and step attenuator; LF/MF/HF/VHF/UHF AM receiver with DF loops for
low bands and 7 element yagi for 445 MHz; ultrasonic receiver with dish.

Low frequencies, eg. AM BC or 160 meters were *occasionally* useful
in locating a general source area. Sometimes the area identified
turned out to be an area of *radiation* but the noise was
*generated* elsewhere. Often the relatively close proximity of
multiple sources made low frequency tracking useless.

VHF was always useful in finding a source area, 80% of the time
resolving it to a single pole. The sharp, deep null at exactly 90
degrees off axis of the yagi proved very useful for confirming a
source structure. Poor resolution/accuracy of signal strength
metering was perceived as a problem.

UHF was very helpful in a few areas where the noise was particularly
strong at VHF and/or signal strength so close over a span of several
poles that VHF could not pick the source pole with high confidence.
So far, experience indicates this is more likely to happen on the
transmission lines. They're a bear. Again, poor or no signal
strength metering (signal below AGC threshold) was perceived as a
problem.

The first ultrasonic unit tried was a waste, finding something at
only 10% of RF noisy poles. The second unit was able to hear
something from about 60% of the same 21 poles. The figures are
averages over more than 10 runs with each unit. The two were also
tested on a spark signal range under somewhat controlled conditions.
These things are definitely not created equal!

To date I have identified and had the power company fix almost
everything I have worked on. The remaining open case involves a
short section of a 46 kV transmission line which is extremely
perplexing due to the specific nature of the issue (details on
request). Just when I starting thinking I was getting good at this,
I came up against this one.

If I were doing this strictly for myself these tools would be more
than adequate. Since I'm not and I only have so many hours in a day
I have several upgrades on my wish list:

HF/VHF/UHF AM receiver with wider bandwidth better signal strength
metering

Log periodic dipole array covering ~100 to ~900 MHz for frequency
agility while maintaining some directional properties

Portable oscilloscope for observing noise signatures in the field
(I'm hoping it helps sort out overlapping source radiations)

Yet another upgrade of the ultrasonic unit.

Comments are welcome, even if it's to tell me I'm clueless!  :)

73
--
Paul Kelley, N1BUG
RFI Committee chair,
Piscataquis Amateur Radio Club
http://www.k1pq.org
___
Stew Perry Topband Distance Challenge coming on December 29th.

___
Stew Perry Topband Distance Challenge coming on December 29th.



___
Stew Perry Topband Distance Challenge coming on December 29th.

Re: Topband: ARRL LOTW and More

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

And while you're at it, why shouldn't SO Assisted be separated from 
Multi-single?  That is a relic of the earliest days of packet, and 
hasn't made sense for at least 20 years.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 12/18/2012 6:26 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 12/18/2012 3:11 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


ARRL 160 meter contest is based on *Sections*. 


Only in part  -- it's also based on DX entities as multipliers, and 
US/VE stations get 2.5X the point credit for a QSO with a DX station.



 It makes no earthly sense to change the rules
for one or two sections after thirty plus years of the contest. 


If the Rules are poorly conceived (and they are), it certainly does 
make sense to change them.  But the needed changes go far beyond 
equalizing KP2 and VP2V -- the Rules give Zone 5 a 10:1 scoring 
advantage over Zone 3 (and about half that over the Midwest and Great 
Plains), and make the contest so boring for Zone 3 that most of us 
avoid it.


73, Jim K9YC
___
It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground 
whatsoever for supposing it is true. - Bertrand Russell




___
It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever 
for supposing it is true. - Bertrand Russell

Re: Topband: PE coated RG6

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Craig, what does lateral mean here - parallel to or perpendicular to 
the length of the cable?


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 12/15/2012 9:25 AM, Craig Clark wrote:

  He suggested doing the standard cable
prep as you would do for PVC. He then suggested two ½ lateral cuts in to
the PE at the 12 and 6 positions and then push the connector on to the
cable. Eureka!


___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Re: Topband: substandard quality F double females

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Amphenol F connectors?  Whoah!

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 12/15/2012 12:35 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 12/15/2012 6:52 AM, Charles Bibb - K5ZK wrote:
Which brands/types are the good ones? 


Amphenol, Amphenol, and Amphenol.  Also, the old MIL-spec stuff that 
can be found at most hamfests when OTs clean out their basements.


The shiny new connectors and adapters sold by vendors at hamfests are 
junk -- the center conductors are flimsy, often no more than springs.  
I've had cheap connectors fall apart mechanically, the dielectric of 
connectors intended for soldering will sometimes melt, and so on.  
These junk connectors go intermittent, or overheat with power.


73, Jim K9YC
___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Topband: buried radials vs radials on the ground

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I had always understood that because of coupling, radials laid on the 
ground were functionally the same on top-band as those buried a few 
inches. Recently, some experimentation with Beverage on ground antennas 
has me doubting that.


It's been suggested that elevated radials need to be resonated, like 
very low dipoles.  Is that true with radials-on-ground, but with a 
much-different velocity factor?


Trying to relate efforts to results for radials on a tower in thick 
woods, where only radial ON ground are possible, what would be my best 
return on effort deploying, say, 1000 feet of wire?  4 longer elevated 
radials (resonated?) or 10 shorter radials on ground (unresonated).


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Re: Topband: How does this make any sense?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Respectfully, I don't think this is anywhere close to right.  For 
example, the CAC did an exemplary job of developing a League position on 
where Skimmer techn0ology fit in its contests.  A lot depends on the CAC 
chairman at any given time, and on getting the ARRL Board to give the 
CAC the right tasks to do.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
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On 12/1/2012 8:09 AM, Greg Chartrand wrote:

It doesn't make any sense, and its not intended to.
I've given up with the league. My experience has been that  the advisory boards have 
virtually no influence on decisions that are made about contests or anything for that matter. 
That's why I stopped contributing to this private club.

---
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks for the comments Ron.  For some reason I just can't think of how
in a 160 meter international contest that if you work KH6 you get no
additional  multiplier for working Guam, Wake Island, Swains, American
Samoa, Midway, Johnson, Kingman Reef, Kure Island!  These are all
separate entities over at the so call ARRL DXCC Desk but apparently not
at the Contest Desk.

How does this make any sense?


___
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___
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Topband: Rules that should be changed was: Re: How does this make any sense?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

But Joe, we've all known for years that you didn't like the way the 
Skimmer debate came out.  That doesn't mean that the CAC under WC1M's 
leadership didn't do an exemplary job of thinking through the 
implications and coming up with solid, serviceable language for use in 
contest rules.  I'm not suggesting that the Board and HQ staff weren't 
involved, but Dick and his colleagues did a fine job under (ahem) 
somewhat overheated circumstances.


If we want to talk about rules that should be changed, how about the 
absurd lumping of assisted stations with multi-singles in the ARRL 10M 
and 160M contests.  I recently received a certificate proclaiming me 
Division Winner in the 2011 ARRL 160 contest, in the Low Power 
Multi-Single class.  For what? 20,000 points and maybe 3 hours' 
operating. I'm sure not going to put that one up on my wall.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 12/1/2012 9:36 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


 Respectfully, I don't think this is anywhere close to right.

I disagree with you ... the Advisory Committees have no independent
advisory role and have generally not been permitted to gather and
evaluate input on topics other than the narrow issues assigned by
the staff.  They have become an echo chamber for the preconceived
positions of the staff and insiders.


For example, the CAC did an exemplary job of developing a League
position on where Skimmer techn0ology fit in its contests.


A prime example of an Advisory Committee rubber stamping the position
of the staff and insiders.  Relegating skimmers entirely within one's
own station (I'm not talking about remote receiver skimmers or RBN) to
an assisted class was preordained.  It ignores the historical embrace
of technological innovation and is the first/only case that technology
(software or hardware that does not use input from a person other than
the station operator) has been singled out for special treatment.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/1/2012 9:10 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:

Respectfully, I don't think this is anywhere close to right.  For
example, the CAC did an exemplary job of developing a League position on
where Skimmer techn0ology fit in its contests.  A lot depends on the CAC
chairman at any given time, and on getting the ARRL Board to give the
CAC the right tasks to do.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 12/1/2012 8:09 AM, Greg Chartrand wrote:

It doesn't make any sense, and its not intended to.
I've given up with the league. My experience has been that the
advisory boards have virtually no influence on decisions that are
made about contests or anything for that matter. That's why I stopped
contributing to this private club.

---
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks for the comments Ron.  For some reason I just can't think of how
in a 160 meter international contest that if you work KH6 you get no
additional  multiplier for working Guam, Wake Island, Swains, American
Samoa, Midway, Johnson, Kingman Reef, Kure Island!  These are all
separate entities over at the so call ARRL DXCC Desk but apparently not
at the Contest Desk.

How does this make any sense?


___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com


___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Re: Topband: November 30-December 2 -- ARRL 160 Meter Contest

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

K1KI, W3TOM, N6AA, N6VI, W6RGG, and K9JF are the active contesters I 
noticed in a quick look at the ARRL Directors and Vice Directors.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 11/30/2012 9:47 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:

Eddy,

I heard back from a few CAC members that said they are only tasked 
by  HQ employees who determine  certain issues passed down to the CAC  
by HQ.  Which means that the motto of, for, and by the amateur radio 
operator  may have been replaced as well. They recommended writing 
the regional directors redress my grievance few if any are active in 
contests.


Herb, KV4FZ




On 11/30/2012 10:07 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote:

On 2012-11-29, at 6:15 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:

Again this weekend the ARRL presents the worst and most unfair 160 
meter competition ever devised.  I must sound like a broken record 
on this problem but I have sent letters and e mail to members of the 
CAC to asked them to allow the US Territories to be what they are 
DX as it is impossible to even get listed for an effort that if I 
was treat like VP2V which I can see from my house, I would at least 
have a chance, in fact i would have come in first lace in the past 
few years as a DX station.  The CAC, the few who will write me back, 
say that any changes to rectify a totally unfair contest, is out of 
their hands and decided by a special secretive group inside the 
ARRL, who are not contesters at all. BTW for the purpose of this 
contest KP2 is counted the same as Navassa and Puerto Rico counts as 
Desecheo. Now how is that for a totally nonsensical approach.  Maybe 
you could demand Navassa credit on 160 after working me, but I 
really doubt that the DX desk will be amused.  I

n
   the Pacific, Guam and Hawaii all count the same as KH8 and KH8S in 
the vast Pacific region thousands of miles apart.  None have even a 
chance to do well with the decks stacked against them.  So they just 
don't participate at all.
I had thought that in protest this year I would phase my Beverages 
on Europe and only listen to help out those who need the Virgin 
islands on 160.  Yet out of my concern for showing good 
sportsmanship I will work anyone I can hear.  But there is a request 
I have in return:  If I work you and give you the rare VI section, 
please take a few minutes after the contest to send an E mail to 
your division Director and copy the members of the CAC about fixing 
this long lingering unfairness.  The E mail addresses are available 
on the ARRL website.  The message is simple DX must be counted as DX 
as the VI, PR and all the other U.S. Territories are in their other 
DX contests.


Also Gary, KD9SV has a great write up in QST but only is given two 
pages and can't mention the efforts of only a few east coast big 
guns.  No matter how hard I try there is no way a station outside of 
the 48 states can even get mentioned.  ARRL Field Day has a write up 
that is 13 pages long.  So one can think that 160 meters is still an 
after thought and those I try to reach out to at HQ really don't 
care.  Maybe i should get a bigger thrill out of working someone in 
SJV or SB or whatever but DX is DX and if the ARRL whats to have a 
160 meter DX contest, this is not a good example of one.  It never 
has been.


Cheers, Good luck and I will reluctantly see you in the contest.



Hi Herb,

Your note reminded me of last year, when both you and (I believe) 
Frank---V01HP---expressed frustration with the Contest Advisory 
Committee at the ARRL...


At that time, I established a dialogue with one of the committee 
members who was situated in western Canada: as I recall, Frank had 
success in expressing his concerns to him, but I don't recall the 
outcome of your efforts. Did you, in fact, make a connection to the 
CAC through that particular window of opportunity...?


If, in fact, you did establish contact with the liaison, it surprises 
me that the ARRL has been so inactive in addressing your concerns 
this way...in fact, it is a MAJOR disappointment, in light of past 
performance on their part years ago.


~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ

PS: I am wondering now how Frank made-out with his concerns...? Are 
you reading this, Frank...?

___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Re: Topband: Vertical Array Over Uneven Ground

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

CU on the 525 foot band, Carl?  Seriously, I suspect that the reason why 
many of us work in meters when modeling is simply that some of the most 
useful software products default to that.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 11/14/2012 3:48 PM, ZR wrote:
I cant find the button to convert that metric stuff to good old USA 
measurements when posted from this country(-:



Subject: Re: Topband: Vertical Array Over Uneven Ground



I never found a way to model an an antenna over anything but flat, level
ground. Not in EZNEC+ 5.0, anyway.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Ken Claerbout k...@verizon.net wrote:

Has anyone modeled or have experience with a transmit vertical 
array, say
a 4-square, over uneven ground? By uneven I mean a variance of up to 
2 - 3

meters over the footprint of the array elements.


___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5394 - Release Date: 11/14/12



___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Re: Topband: Band open, no one home

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Awww, c'mon.  Do you have to be so snarky?  You evidently have power, 
Jack - why not just silently count your blessings?


73, Pete N4ZR
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 10/31/2012 10:32 AM, K2RS wrote:
So sorry. You're right. We really should have been on the air last 
night, but at least some of us were pre-occupied with something called 
Sandy, one of the largest hurricanes ever to hit the northeast 
United States. You know, nearly 50 people dead, $50 billion in damage, 
6,000,000 without power. It's no big deal. We'll try to keep out 
priorities straight and get on the air tonight.


How's the wx at your end, OM?


73,

Jack   K2RS



On 10/31/2012 9:37 AM, Steve London wrote:
Last night (31 Oct UTC) was very good on 160. AA0RS and W5XZ were 
trolling in the Europeans. The band seemed to be open all evening 
with OH3XR and PA3FQA being beacons, and RI1ANF with a big signal. 
But that was about it. Not even the usual east coast suspects.


C'mon guysit's time to test those new antennas that have been 
discussed at length !


73,
Steve, N2IC/5
___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com


___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Topband: 1810 signal

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

For what it is worth, I am about 60 miles northwest of N3QE, who reports 
hearing the signal about the same strength day and night. I am hearing 
it S9 at night but right at my S5 noise level daytime, which suggests, 
to me at least, that it's a lot closer to him than me, and that I'm 
maybe right at the outer edge of ground wave.  I'm using a TX vertical - 
no RX antennas deployed yet.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

___
Remember the PreStew coming on October 20th.  http://www.kkn.net/stew for more 
info.

Re: Topband: electrical wavelength

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I thought we were talking about RF.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 9/10/2012 4:36 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 9/10/2012 10:44 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:

I firmly do not believe that is true.

Velocity factor in cable is the square root of the inverse of 
dielectric constant.


Tom,

Respectfully, I suggest that you go back to your college textbook on 
the fundamentals of Transmission Lines. The equations for Zo, 
velociity of propagation, and attenuation are COMPLEX -- that is, they 
contain real and imaginary components. The formula you cite is the 
result of simplification to remove those complex elements. It's good 
at VHF and is close for HF, but becomes increasing erroneous as you 
go down in frequency.


Likewise, Zo is only sqrt (L/C) at VHF.  The more complete equation is 
sqrt [ (R+J omega L) /( G + J omega C) ]  At VHF, the equation 
SIMPLIFIES to sqrt (L/C)  At low audio frequencies, and up to VHF, G 
is insignificant (leakage) so the complete practical equation is sqrt  
[(R+ j omega L) / j omega C]  Note that this results in Zo being 
complex, and a proper measurement will confirm that this is true. 
There are MANY references to complex Zo in the ham literature. Frank 
Witt published some work about this, now available in one of the ARRL 
Anthologies. N6BV's TLW software, published in the ARRL Handbook, uses 
complex impedance data for its transmission line calculations, 
although it ignores the variability of Vf.


At low audio frequencies, Zo is much, much larger than the VHF value, 
and Vf is much, much slower than the VHF value. Both properties begin 
a rapid transition to their VHF values and go though at least half of 
it within the audio spectrum, approaching the VHF values 
asymptotically. By 2 MHz, both are within a few percent of the VHF value.


All of this was WELL KNOWN more than a century ago, and Oliver 
Heavyside did a lot of work on applications to equalize lines. While 
it is often assumed in modern times that equalization of telephone 
circuits was done only for the amplitude response, equalization is 
equally important for the TIME response.  To get your head around 
that, consider speech where the highs arrive much sooner than the 
lows.


Here's a simple test you can do with any 50 ohm signal source you can 
read to an accuracy of at least 0.1 percent and a decent voltmeter 
across the source  Cut a quarter wave open stub for the lowest 
frequency you can observe and measure the first resonance to as many 
digits as you can, then repeat for the third, fifth, seventh, and 
ninth resonances.  If you can hit the precise null and read enough 
digits, you can plot the variation in Vf.  Or do the same with any 
vector analyzer, carefully reading the frequencies of each null.


73, Jim K9YC
___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK



___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Radials through heavy brush

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I heard about the same idea from Fred, K1VR, using an 8-f0oot ground 
rod, with a hole drilled in the blunt end and slightly bent to make it 
sneak through the undergrowth better.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 8/14/2012 5:36 PM, Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote:
 Years ago my wife Mary, N8DMM used a 12' piece of 3/8 diameter
 aluminum tubing like a long sewing needle to thread 160 and 80
 meter radials under heavy brush.  It worked very well.  A piece of
 1/2 tubing was used to splice two pieces together the few times
 we needed a longer needle

 73 Pete - N8TR




 At 07:27 PM 8/11/2012, Jeff wrote:
 Another economical and light weight method of pushing wire through brush
 would be to use a 10' piece of 1/2 PVC or plastic electrical conduit. In
 the case of the electrical conduit it can be extended by adding multiple
 pieces together for greater length. It's lite weight and flexible enough to
 bounce it with one hand over things like roots or stones that might get in
 the way. If you don't want to carry 10' lengths of plastic pipes around,
 look in the big box stores or electrical suppliers for threaded push rods
 made of fiberglass. Typically they come in 4' sections with 4 or 5 in pack
 that threat one onto the other and are brightly colored. That makes it easy
 to find in the leaves and twigs.  Just tape your wire on to the end and
 push.  Autumn is coming, time to get those TB antennas back in the air.
 W7JW
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK


___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Soldering in the wild!

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I believe the whole idea of the split bolt is that, properly tightened, 
it exerts enough pressure to crush through any existing corrosion and 
make a joint that is too tight for corrosion to intervene.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 8/5/2012 6:38 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
 Then pressure has been enough to keep corrosion from between the
 clamped items...Thanks, Guy.

 On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote:
 So far I have not done so.

 Jim

 On 8/5/2012 11:21 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
 Do you treat the connections with anything for corrosion protection,
 e.g. silicone grease?  73, Guy

 On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 2:31 AM, Jim Brownj...@audiosystemsgroup.com  
 wrote:
 I use copper split bolt connectors, both forelectrical and mechanical
 connections.
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK


___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Interference with DSL, etc.

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Groan years ago, I had a T-1 running to a teleconferencing center I 
managed - over $1000 a month for 24 64-Kb channels, IIRC.  Surely there 
has to be a better way in most places, if only cable Internet.  I get 13 
MB down, 2.5 MB up from Comcast, on their mid-grade performance 
service.  No RFI either, and no twisted pair involved.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 7/17/2012 7:00 AM, John Harden wrote:
 A number of years ago I got fed up with the undependable ATT DSL. It was
 too crowded and generally too slow. I went to a full T-1 with a
 dedicated line. It is with Windstream out of Virginia. The service is
 excellent, and if you call them they can articulate in English and are
 very knowledgeable!!

 ATT brings in their loop. Hence to an Adtran 608 T-1 modem and hence
 to a Link-Sys router. From there it goes to various ether-net switches
 via hard wired CAT5E cable pulled throughout the QTH to four different
 work stations

 The rig does not phase the system.

 I would never go back Internet packet and the ON4 chat literally
 flies...

http://www.windstreambusiness.com/enterprise/data-solutions/t1-bundle/

 73,

 John, W4NU
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK



___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Progress with ugly computer noise

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

FB - that explains the semi-circular arrow between the two inductors on 
the schematic - I wasn't familiar with the notation.  I don't know the 
whys and wherefores, so I just picked the most elaborate of the several 
filters they showed on the catalog page - as I recall, it cost around 
$10 plus shipping, so I got two while I was at it.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 7/4/2012 3:41 PM, Paul Christensen wrote:
 According to the schematic on the side, it consists of 2 x 2.5
 mH indutors, one in series with each leg, a 2200 pF cap shunting the
 line input and 0.1uF capacitors from each leg to ground on the load
 side.
 It's generally two inductors wound on a single core for common-mode choking.
 The result is that total common-mode inductance is 2*L while
 differential-mode inductance cancels and equals zero.  The 2200pF caps are
 differential-mode shunts to ground.  Some of these modules can be purchased
 with complex combinations of both common-mode and differential-mode
 inductance and capacitance sections.   I use them for almost all home-brewed
 projects that require an AC supply.

 Paul, W9AC




 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK



___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Noise in the Shack - A new noise!

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Don't be too quick to give up on the idea of solid state drives, Greg.  
I know several active hams who have had these installed for some time 
without any of the problems you experienced.  There's no logical reason 
why these drives should be any more or less noisy than any other memory 
in your computer.

I would check your power supply, in case the line filtering components 
were left out to save money, and if so, get yourself an inexpensive 
Corcom line filter.  Try disconnecting keyboard, mouse and monitor 
cables one at a time to see if the noise is getting out that way. Try 
grounding the case of your computer to the same single point ground as 
your transceiver, also making sure that the ground bus of your 
motherboard makes good electrical contact to the case.

In five years or less, I suspect you will not be able to find a computer 
*without* an SSD.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 6/26/2012 6:36 AM, Greg Chartrand wrote:
 Last month I began a computer up-grade process at home and work by using 
 solid state drives (SSD) in both laptop and desktop systems. The upgrades 
 have been very successful providing a significant performance increase and 
 extended battery life.
 The last upgrade was my ham shack desktop system that I rebuilt with a new 
 copy of Windows 7. All seemed well until I  turned the rig on and heard 
 garbage and multiple birdies across the lower 50 khz on 160.
 I was distracted for a week trying to recover a lost disk but I put the  SSD 
 in place again yesterday. This time I wrapped the SSD in aluminium foil and 
 put 2 clamp on cores on the SATA cable. I fired up my system, and the extra 
 measures had no noticeable improvement on the birdie situation. The
 birdies  appear as soon as I power up the drive.
   I doubt if I will be able to remove the noise so this is a warning to those 
 who may consider the same upgrade to their hamshack computer. My computer 
 with the old fashion Hitachi hard drive contributes zero noise to my 
 receiving capability on any band so SSD's are not in my future!
 Greg

 -

 Greg Chartrand - W7MY

 Richland, WA.

 DN-06IF



 W7MY Home Page:

 http://webpages.charter.net/w7my/
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK



___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: TX ANT TO RX ANT COUPLING

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Doesn't this suggest that there is a role here for cut and try?  Take a 
set of clip leads to the base of the tower and experiment?

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 6/20/2012 3:45 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
 Tom,

 This is not encouraging news for those of us with towers already ground
 and are either shunt fed or cage fed.  Even though they are not
 resonate, although top loaded and approaching resonance, it seems that
 even with some elaborate decoupling arrangements, and I hope I am wrong,
 not to much can be gained by even trying to get them detuned.  This is
 crucial for me to know, and I would assume many others that have
 Beverage terminations or feed points 100 feet away,

 Thanks for the warning as this summer I was going to install a HV relay
 on the shunt cage to groundbut as you point out it may not help as
 the grounded shunt or cage fed tower is already a noise source for close
 proximity RX antennas.




 On 6/20/2012 2:09 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
 There are two potential problems with this. As general rules:

 1.) Grounding any antenna which is dependent on a ground system to be
 resonant will maximize reradiation.

 2.) Resonant elevated radials, even without an antenna connected, are
 resonant and re-radiate.

 3.) Things that are not resonant can still re-radiate.

 To minimize coupling from a resonant radial, the radial has to be
 disconnected from ground and from other radials.

 Different systems can be different, and in some cases re-radiation can
 actually cause a null that reduces noise, but the general rule is
 self-resonant antennas with a ground (Marconi), or nearly self-resonant
 antennas when grounded, should be floated. Other antennas can be terminated
 in an inductor, capacitor, or opened, depending on the system.

 My 220 ft insulated tower, in the center of a four square, is opened by
 shorting a specific length of coax to the L matching network. It has much
 more radiation when open or grounded. radiation is minimal when detuned by a
 proper impedance.

 73 Tom




 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK



___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: radial wire source

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

and then there's the 6000 ft spool of insulated, tinned #16 that I found 
at the Dayton flea market for $20.  It'll probably outlast me.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 6/5/2012 12:38 PM, Eric Tichansky NO3M wrote:
 Also check what might be available from the Wireman.  I picked up
 a 5000 ft spool of twin-lead (#18?) from them a couple years ago
 for $100.  It was a bit of a job splitting it, mainly from the
 tendency to twist when pulling the insulation apart in the
 middle.  However, cutting to the desired radial length and
 connecting one end to a pulley w/ a pivot took care of that.
 Having two people pulling it apart while walking out from center
 also helps to keep tension on both wires and avoid it balling up
 where it is splitting/twisting.  All said and done, 1+ ft of
 radials for about $0.01/ft and it's held up fine over the past
 two years.

 73 - Eric NO3M

 On 06/05/12 12:18, Jim Brown wrote:
 I've used a lot of #14 THHN solid because it's cheaper than stranded,
 and find it no more difficult to work with than stranded wire.  I would
 love to use #18, but have not been able to find a  source for it in
 quantity.  Either Lowe's or Home Depot (don't recall which) orffers a
 quantity discount for something like six 500 ft spools.

 73, Jim K9YC
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: How Good is Good Enough?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

This is exactly why I got to looking at BOGs - I lack the space in a 
Northeasterly direction (Northwest too, for that matter).  Mine is 220 
feet, as suggested by some experiments with the resonant frequency of a 
dipole laid on the ground to derive a velocity factor - a technique 
suggested by K2AV.

My thinking on putting the preamp at the antenna end was that I would 
improve the SNR and potentially the directivity by amplifying the 
desired signal before sending it down the coax where common mode signal 
pickup, to some degree, seemed inevitable.  But if the preamp is 
amplifying those signals as well, then I clearly need to rethink.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 3/11/2012 9:52 PM, ZR wrote:
 Very possible on your farm Mike, time to experiment I'd say.

 Carl
 KM1H


 - Original Message -
 From: Mike Watersmikew...@gmail.com
 To: topbandtopband@contesting.com
 Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 9:19 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: How Good is Good Enough?


 Thanks, Carl!

 Seems to me that laying on the ground, the VF would be considerably lower,
 and so we could shorten them.

 73, Mike
 www.w0btu.com

 On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:58 PM, ZRz...@jeremy.mv.com  wrote:

 Ive said several times that my 500' BOG's dont need a preamp. The signal
 level may be 5-6dB lower

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK


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 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Man, you Westerners are naive!  We even have coyotes in downtown 
Washington and New York City.  Ratty looking, but out there hunting.  
Anyhow, the general idea is pick something the the wee beasties don't 
like, and lay it on!

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 3/12/2012 3:57 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote:
 My experience with canid (coyote and wolf) urines suggests that if
 canids are not the local predator of interest--coyotes in England?--it
 may not work.

 Garry, NI6T

 On 3/12/2012 6:15 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
 Two words - coyote urine.  Seriously  the local Southern States
 sells a critter repellent based on dried coyote urine.

 In our case, the biggest critter problem with my BOG so far has been
 deer - tangle-footed beasts!

 73, Pete N4ZR
 The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
 The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
 reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
 spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
 arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


 On 3/12/2012 9:11 AM, Tracey Gardner wrote:
 I'd be interested to  know what critter/rodent damage these BOGs get?
 My experience, in the UK, of leaving the last 60m of my Beverage lying on
 the ground for a few days, is that the insulation got chewed through in
 seven places.

 I would be interested in trying a BOG but I have a feeling that it wouldn't
 last long here.

 73s Tracey G5VU

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

F'heaven's sake, Garry, I meant naive about how widely they range in the 
East, and it was all tongue in cheek, from beginning to end.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 3/12/2012 4:31 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote:
 Westerners naive about coyotes? That is an interesting concept. DC and
 NYC are within the natural range of coyotes, but I have serious doubts
 about England.

 Coyote urine may work, but it did not keep my feedlines from being
 chewed by (eastern) Grey Squirrels that have displaced the native brown
 units.

 Garry, NI6T

 On 3/12/2012 1:01 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
 Man, you Westerners are naive!  We even have coyotes in downtown
 Washington and New York City.  Ratty looking, but out there hunting.
 Anyhow, the general idea is pick something the the wee beasties don't
 like, and lay it on!

 73, Pete N4ZR
 The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
 The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
 reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
 spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
 arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


 On 3/12/2012 3:57 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote:
 My experience with canid (coyote and wolf) urines suggests that if
 canids are not the local predator of interest--coyotes in England?--it
 may not work.

 Garry, NI6T

 On 3/12/2012 6:15 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
 Two words - coyote urine.  Seriously  the local Southern States
 sells a critter repellent based on dried coyote urine.

 In our case, the biggest critter problem with my BOG so far has been
 deer - tangle-footed beasts!

 73, Pete N4ZR
 The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at 
 www.conteststations.com
 The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
 reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
 spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
 arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


 On 3/12/2012 9:11 AM, Tracey Gardner wrote:
 I'd be interested to  know what critter/rodent damage these BOGs get?
 My experience, in the UK, of leaving the last 60m of my Beverage lying on
 the ground for a few days, is that the insulation got chewed through in
 seven places.

 I would be interested in trying a BOG but I have a feeling that it 
 wouldn't
 last long here.

 73s Tracey G5VU

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: How Good is Good Enough?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I have about 350 feet of quad-shield RG-6 going out to a receiving 
antenna hub which has a 20-db ARR preamp on the end of the line, 
followed by an 8-way relay switch.  The feedline is lying on the ground, 
or more correctly on the stubble of a mowed hayfield.  At the moment, it 
has only one BOG on it, but I plan to add other BOGs and a K9AY loop for 
some comparative tests.  The feedline has a center tapped common mode 
choke about 15 feet from the hub, a la ON4UN and K9YC references - 14 
turns of RG-6 on each of 2 #31 toroids.

My question is this.  If I disconnect the one BOG, and listen to the 
feedline and preamp, how quiet should it be?  How would I go about 
testing its quietness?  If it is not quiet enough in this configuration, 
what would my next step be?  Another common mode choke at the shack 
entrance?

-- 
73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Topband: Signal pickup mystery

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Please pardon my repeating myself, but this thing has really got me 
buffaloed, and I've found that this is the place where the most 
knowledgeable people about this sort of thing hang out

I am feeding DC down my feedline to the ARR preamp in the RX antenna 
hub, and also to the relays and the logic inside it (my cheapo Chinese 
relay board).  I now have the hub sitting out there with no antenna 
connected, so it is effectively just the preamp and the relays on the 
end of the coax, plus common mode pickup on the coax.

On 1550 KHz (my local 70-over-9 broadcast station), this combination is 
  70 dB down as compared to my 160M shunt fed tower.  However, if I go 
up to 20 meters and find a strong station, then the feedline-cum-hub 
combination receives about as well as the tower, and is only ~20 dB down 
from a single small tribander.

Now here's the mysterious part.  If I remove the DC power from the 
preamp, the 20-meter signals drop from S9 to barely audible. This is 
also noticeable, but just barely, on the 1550 KHz signal. Is it possible 
that the preamp, which is between the feedline and the primary of the 
binocular matching transformer, is somehow amplifying the common mode 
signals? The shield of the coax connects to the shell of the preamp, and 
from there to the secondary of the matching transformer (the 75-ohm 
side). Is it possible that common mode signals are getting back into the 
preamp input through the matching transformer primary?  If so, any ideas 
on how to clean it up?  Or should I just get rid of the preamp out there 
and do my amplifying in the shack?

-- 
73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK