Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
Hello fellow topbanders; Today, I received notification from ISEC (the Canadian version of the FCC) that radio station CKTB has made repairs to their transmitting system to correct the source of the spurious emission on 1830 khz. Hopefully this problem has been solved for good. 73 and stay safe; Rick ve3mm On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:04 PM Rick ve3mm wrote: > My qth is St. Catharines ON. > > The spurious transmissions from CKTB have been occurring sporadically since > the summer of 2019. The spurious signal on 1830 khz seems to occur when > it is windy in the area and appears to becoming more frequent. > > On Friday March 20 around 0100Z the spurious signal was S9 plus 20 on 1830 > khz and it wiped out the band from 1825 to 1835. They were perfect copy on > AM and I did hear the station callsign announcement as CKTB. > > In the last week I have complained to the station itself and to Industry > Canada (our version of the FCC). IC has acknowledged my complaint and said > they would look into it. > > I recommend that if you are affected by this spurious signal that you > register a complaint with the FCC and hopefully they will pressure Industry > Canada to force the station to make repairs. > > 73 > Rick ve3mm > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
Just a heads up, yesterday afternoon and last night I had a listen to 610 and 1830. I was hearing the station referred too. Did not hear 610 on second harmonic at all. I did hear three stations on the second harmonic, nothing from 610. As a note the one of the second harmonic stations has level issues; I did not have a chance to turn on the spectrum analyzer to look at their signal. There must be someone much closer than I am ( approximately 50 miles from me.) If I get a chance I will turn on the gear and have a look at the various frequencies tonight. Cheers AJ___ VE3HJ On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 12:14:14 -0500 donro...@hiwaay.net wrote: > If the AM signal is 3x wider than a normal AM, you can be assured > that it's coming out of the transmitter and being tripled both in > carrier and sidebands. > > If it is a "mix" from another transmitter or internal to the > receiver, it will be normal bandwidth not three times as wide as > a typical AM transmitter. > > Don W4DNR ( 40+ years maintaining Broadcast AM Transmitters ) > > > Quoting Roy Morgan : > > > John and others, > > > > Yes, I now see reports from far from the station. > > Clearly my comments about causes local to the one nearby ham > > reporting interference do not apply > > > > I will listen myself tonight. > > > > Maybe some of our two trillion dollar aid package can be sent to > > Canada. Perhaps a mere $100,000 would let them replace their > > troublesome guy wires with commercial grade Phillystran. > > > > Roy > > > >> On Mar 26, 2020, at 1:34 PM, John K9UWA > >> wrote: > >> > >> Notce Roy that a second report from W8 land also was hearing this > >> 3rd harmonic... its the radio station problem... not the ham's > >> problem... > >> > >> And yes I also heard it from Northern Indiana > >> John k9uwa > >> > >> > >> On 26 Mar 2020 at 12:36, Roy Morgan wrote: > >> > >>> Is it possible that the interference is being generated not by > >>> the transmitter > >>> but rather by bad connections in power lines or utility pole guy > >>> wires nearer to > >>> you? > > > > Roy Morgan > > K1LKY since 1958 > > k1lk...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
If the AM signal is 3x wider than a normal AM, you can be assured that it's coming out of the transmitter and being tripled both in carrier and sidebands. If it is a "mix" from another transmitter or internal to the receiver, it will be normal bandwidth not three times as wide as a typical AM transmitter. Don W4DNR ( 40+ years maintaining Broadcast AM Transmitters ) Quoting Roy Morgan : John and others, Yes, I now see reports from far from the station. Clearly my comments about causes local to the one nearby ham reporting interference do not apply I will listen myself tonight. Maybe some of our two trillion dollar aid package can be sent to Canada. Perhaps a mere $100,000 would let them replace their troublesome guy wires with commercial grade Phillystran. Roy On Mar 26, 2020, at 1:34 PM, John K9UWA wrote: Notce Roy that a second report from W8 land also was hearing this 3rd harmonic... its the radio station problem... not the ham's problem... And yes I also heard it from Northern Indiana John k9uwa On 26 Mar 2020 at 12:36, Roy Morgan wrote: Is it possible that the interference is being generated not by the transmitter but rather by bad connections in power lines or utility pole guy wires nearer to you? Roy Morgan K1LKY since 1958 k1lk...@gmail.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz)
On 3/26/2020 12:32 PM, Wayne wrote: Things like broken hardware, etc. in antenna structures come to mind, especially considering the reported sensitivity to wind. AND -- not necessarily part of the station. Could be almost any junction of conductors of a length that forms a good RX and TX antenna. When I lived in Chicago, I regularly heard the second harmonic of 780 kHz 50kW WBBM, 18 miles from me. It's also possible for IM to be generated in the output stage of nearby transmitters in the same frequency range. 50kW stations WGN, WMAQ, WJJD, and WCFL (some different calls today) are only 1.5 miles, 4.3 miles, 9 miles, and 12 miles from WBBM, respectively. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
Dave and other Topbanders, I plan to do some listening from here in Western Mass, USA (Near the junction of NH/VT/MA). The wind speed here is expected to peak tomorrow afternoon at 10 MPH, maybe not enough to jangle what’s loose in Canada. Is this Saint Catherine in Quebec? Near Niagra Falls someone mentioned. 10 MPH there or below till Sunday’s high of 15 MPH. > On Mar 26, 2020, at 2:32 PM, David Olean wrote: > > I was hearing the St Catherine station very loud on 1830, but with > intermittent periods where it would dropout. This was at a time with high > winds in the NE. I have not yet heard it, but do I remember correctly that the 1830 *harmonic* of a station on 610 would sound very strange and muffled because the sidebands/audio wold be multiplied as harmonic also? > I tried to find CKTB and it is on the same frequency as a local station in NH > on 610. I am in Western Mass and so that NH station on 610 may be strong here (at night at least). I finally found (on Wikipedia!) that the NH station on 610 is at Manchester, NH. Their website does not reveal their location or address that I can find. > If I had a local rectification problem, it would involve the strongest local > stations and not something I can hardly copy. Yes, I agree. That makes good sense. > All I see is the 3rd harmonic of the 610 Canadian station. It occurred to me to check my memory on this. If the fundamental is on 610, isn’t 1220 the first harmonic, and 1860 the second harmonic? It has been some time since I had that straight in my mind. Maybe the fundamental multiplied by two is the second harmonic. In this very much stay-at-home time here, I look forward to some radio listening. Roy Roy Morgan K1LKY since 1958 k1lk...@gmail.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz)
As a one-time broadcast engineer at a high power FM station, I believe whoever in responsible for performance will want to know what is happening -- management, not so much. Reports going back several years raise questions, though. A search says that CKTB is a 10K/5K day, night station. Not a lot of power, but still problems can occur. The people to talk to are the engineering staff or contract engineering people. They may not have engineering people on staff, depending on Industry Canada regulations. They will/should definitely want to know, however - unless CKTB doesn't pay promptly. Things like broken hardware, etc. in antenna structures come to mind, especially considering the reported sensitivity to wind. It's not a local problem if you're 400 miles away. Such faults can create spurs as well as modulation problems. --N7NG On 3/26/2020 1:00 PM, DXer wrote: >>Maybe some of our two trillion dollar aid package can be sent to Canada. Perhaps a mere $100,000 would let them replace their troublesome guy wires with commercial grade Phillystran. This pandemic is very serious business. I would not waste any money uselessly. Tragically, a lot more money than we can print will be needed after all is said and done. As for CKTB, being so close to the border, it's likely covered by international treaty. A call to the FCC may be all that is needed on your side. 73 de Vince, VA3VF _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
Good question Roy I was hearing the St Catherine station very loud on 1830, but with intermittent periods where it would dropout. This was at a time with high winds in the NE. I suspected that it might be a problem at my shack, so I tried to find CKTB and it is on the same frequency as a local station in NH on 610. I can hardly hear it on my radio due to interference from that local station. It was about S9 or -70 dBm as near as I could tell with a beverage receiving antenna, but there are many more stations that are at -40 or even -30 dBm coming in at the same time. There is a local station in the next town, 8 miles distant that is on 930 MHz. I do hear a very weak 2nd harmonic of it on 1860. It is not much of a problem compared to the station in Canada many hundreds of miles away. If I had a local rectification problem, it would involve the strongest local stations and not something I can hardly copy. Still, I wondered at first and then made some measurements looking for other distortion/rectification problems. All I see is the 3rd harmonic of the 610 Canadian station. 73 Dave K1WHS On 3/26/2020 4:36 PM, Roy Morgan wrote: Is it possible that the interference is being generated not by the transmitter but rather by bad connections in power lines or utility pole guy wires nearer to you? Some driving around with a portable radio with loop stick antenna might reveal or confirm the location of the signals. Hams in the past have discovered that TVI was caused not by their transmitter but rather by their own gutters, downspouts or wire yard fences. Roy Morgan K1LKY Western Mass On Mar 26, 2020, at 12:04 PM, Rick ve3mm wrote: The spurious signal on 1830 khz seems to occur when it is windy in the area and appears to becoming more frequent. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
John and others, Yes, I now see reports from far from the station. Clearly my comments about causes local to the one nearby ham reporting interference do not apply I will listen myself tonight. Maybe some of our two trillion dollar aid package can be sent to Canada. Perhaps a mere $100,000 would let them replace their troublesome guy wires with commercial grade Phillystran. Roy > On Mar 26, 2020, at 1:34 PM, John K9UWA wrote: > > Notce Roy that a second report from W8 land also was hearing this 3rd > harmonic... its the radio station problem... not the ham's problem... > > And yes I also heard it from Northern Indiana > John k9uwa > > > On 26 Mar 2020 at 12:36, Roy Morgan wrote: > >> Is it possible that the interference is being generated not by the >> transmitter >> but rather by bad connections in power lines or utility pole guy wires >> nearer to >> you? Roy Morgan K1LKY since 1958 k1lk...@gmail.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
Hi Roy, Numerous stations in Canada and the US are encountering the same RFI (originating from the same station near Niagara Falls). In recent years we have encountered similar RFI on 160 meters from an AM broadcast station in New Jersey as well as one in Kentucky that had spurious emissions up on 160 meters, and this looks like another classic case of that. I also have directional RX receive antennas on 160 meters that indicate the direction of the signal. The New Jersey AM broadcast station RFI mentioned above was an interesting one in that the AM station was using a very low power back up transmitter that was only running 6 watts, and its spurs on 160 meters were producing strong signals in the Midwestern states (S7 at my location near Indianapolis). Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:36 PM Roy Morgan wrote: > Is it possible that the interference is being generated not by the > transmitter but rather by bad connections in power lines or utility pole > guy wires nearer to you? > > Some driving around with a portable radio with loop stick antenna might > reveal or confirm the location of the signals. > > Hams in the past have discovered that TVI was caused not by their > transmitter but rather by their own gutters, downspouts or wire yard > fences. > > Roy Morgan > K1LKY Western Mass > > > On Mar 26, 2020, at 12:04 PM, Rick ve3mm > wrote: > > The spurious signal on 1830 khz seems to occur when > > it is windy in the area and appears to becoming more frequent. > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Spurious transmissions on 1830 khz by CKTB (610 kHz), St. Catharines ON
Is it possible that the interference is being generated not by the transmitter but rather by bad connections in power lines or utility pole guy wires nearer to you? Some driving around with a portable radio with loop stick antenna might reveal or confirm the location of the signals. Hams in the past have discovered that TVI was caused not by their transmitter but rather by their own gutters, downspouts or wire yard fences. Roy Morgan K1LKY Western Mass > On Mar 26, 2020, at 12:04 PM, Rick ve3mm wrote: > The spurious signal on 1830 khz seems to occur when > it is windy in the area and appears to becoming more frequent. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
