Topband: Beverage antenna analyzer video

[VE6WZ_Steve]

The weather is good…….
Here is another video showing how I use the antenna analyzer to take 
measurements of the Beverage antenna in the field:
https://youtu.be/yiFW_u1CPrs 

Beverage theory is discussed, comparing the Beverage to a transmission line and 
calculating the surge impedance. The wire impedance is measured and compared to 
calculation.  TDR (time domain reflectometry) is done on the Beverage wire to 
try and derive its length, and estimate its velocity factor.


73, de steve ve6wz
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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Ed Sawyer]

I find that my 600 to 1000 ft terminated beverages are quite capable.
Clearly, if someone doesn't the room, then other options need to be
explored.  But the front to back ratio and SNR of my 1000 ft beverage to
Europe is nothing short of amazing when it comes to hearing.  Even with
1.5kW on 80 and 160M, I sometimes hear surprise in the voice of the EU
station calling me that I can actually hear them Q5.

 

Ed  N1UR

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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[n4is]

Guys

Some concepts really belong to the last century, a beverage antenna is very 
inefficient for moderns days. Ground wave noise is very high everywhere and it 
is vertical polarized, any vertical polarized RX antenna will hear man made 
noise very well.

The only really way to increase signal to noise ratio is directivity, front 
back actually just work on the opposite way , when you optimize front back the 
directivity is impacted and you increase the noise coming from the front lobe, 
where the DX signal is coming from. 

A pair of flags, or EWE's, K9AY or DHDL's, all of them  are loaded loops can 
reach very high RDF in only 50m. You need 150 m to do what a flag can do in 5m. 

If you are not convinced just look again what NX4D and myself did in the last 
10 years. Doug worked 311 on 160m and I am at 298, but I heard 312 countries on 
160m form a city lot, my back yard is 30m x 50m, and most of them worked 
listening with a pair of horizontal phased loops that I call HWF. Today there 
are over 50 station around the world enjoying the same kind of results with HWF.

My webinars on WWROF have all you need to know for a jump start.


https://wwrof.org/webinar-archive/n4is-waller-flag-construction/


https://wwrof.org/webinar-archive/high-performance-rx-antennas-for-a-small-lot/


Noise is up!  Common mode noise and integration between RX ant TX antennas on 
the same polarization is a must know concept to fight noise, and work DX on any 
band. 160 80 and 40 is a way to go nowadays with this deep solar activity 
season.

You don’t need to move into the woods, efficient low band station on a city lot 
is a real possibility. Land is not growing and it is very expensive, noise is 
growing exponential.

Know and believe are different things.

My friend PP5JR just detuned his inverted L and his ground noise dropped 4 s 
units on his HWF. Now he believes what he knows for years. John K9UWA detuned 
all his towers on 160m  and now he can say the same.

Do it and believe it yourself.

Regards
JC
N4IS





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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Mark]

Good point Rick.

But that zoomes-out the topic.
What priorities does Ash' beverage need to cover, like:

lowering local noise (groundwave)
lowering incoming skywave noise; QRN and/or QRM
the need to 'enable another layer of QSO contacts'
etc.
etc.

Ash:  I am sure you have already read some general info on RX antennas?
If not already, please check CTU website for the great presentation by 
W3LPL:

https://www.contestuniversity.com/files/

Then there is The Great Book LowBand DX'ing by ON4UN

However, and this goes for all Lowband ops, experienced or not, throwing 
a topnotch RX antenna out on your QTH does not provide instant maximal 
efficiency.
It might not be the best choice of antenna type, location or the way it 
is best set-up and/or adjusted in your environment.
Can you make the right choices (or better experiment ot find out) if 
you're a City Dweller, where many of the knowledge takes different turns 
and you have to fight for every dB progress at s/n ?

Soo many questions, even more answers

Using seperate RX antennas is a (great) journey in our hobby where you 
learn by doing.

You will have to find out what and how it works out best for you.

73 Mark, PA5MW


On 06/07/2018 19:35, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

On 7/4/2018 8:09 AM, pa...@home.nl wrote:


Groundwave BC signals arrive at 0 degrees; you want to adjust FB at 
incoming

skywave (10< >50 degrees) signals instead
What reference you should use depends on your QTH and the first wave of
incoming (Europe?) QRM



I would like to respectfully disagree, at least for my QTH.  What I
find is that my noise is dominated by local ground wave sources.
I want a null at the horizon=ground wave.  I don't see background
noise vary much between day and night.  Especially on vertically
polarized antennas.

Rick N6RK



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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 7/4/2018 8:09 AM, pa...@home.nl wrote:



Groundwave BC signals arrive at 0 degrees; you want to adjust FB at incoming
skywave (10< >50 degrees) signals instead
What reference you should use depends on your QTH and the first wave of
incoming (Europe?) QRM



I would like to respectfully disagree, at least for my QTH.  What I
find is that my noise is dominated by local ground wave sources.
I want a null at the horizon=ground wave.  I don't see background
noise vary much between day and night.  Especially on vertically
polarized antennas.

Rick N6RK
_
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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[k8gg]

Hi Ash, Hello All,

As a long time Beverage user, I can definitely say that the performance
can be enhanced by having good ground at the termination resistor end of a
beverage.

Operating from Aruba in a CQ160CW contest, W8UVZ, KD9SV and I put out a
proper 470 ohm non inductive resistor on the end of a 560 foot long
beverage, and in addition to the ground rod, fanned out about 8 radials
each about 17 feet (5 meters) long beyond the end of the beverage antenna
wire.

I will also state that putting a Hi-Pass filter in series with the coaxial
cable at the receiving end in the radio room was a big help.  I lived 1/2
mile from an AM 930 station that made it impossible to make measurements
with an SWR bridge in a receiving mode.

The only way I could evaluate my RX antennas was to transmit 2 - 3 watts
into the beverage and use a low power SWR bridge to look at the forward &
reflected power, which worked very well for me.  My typical SWR on 160
meters was 1.5:1 from 1800 to 1915, and I considered that good enough.  I
did not worry about the SWR on 80 or 75 meters, but found good receiving
advantages compared to my transmitting antenna most of the time.

73,   Good luck,

George,  K8GG




> At 14:33 2018-07-06, Ashraf Chaabane wrote:
>>Hi Mark, Peter,
>>
>>The BC station to be used to minimize the back lobe would be in
>>Egypt or Saoudi Arabia right on the back of my beverage antenna.
>>That should offer signals coming well above 10deg (I presume!).
>>Comment noted regarding how efficient that will be on 1820 kHz. I
>>know Egypt has BC station on Medium Wave which isn't that far from 160m.
>>
>>Frank,
>>
>>I have two 3-feets rods at each end so far with two buried radials
>>at the feed end. I will add radials at the termination side as well
>>as you recommend.
>>
>>For the sake of experimentation, I  will play a bit with the
>>termination resistor trying to flatten the SWR curve as much as
>>possible, although, as many said, I shouldn't expect a noticeable
>>improvement in reception.
>>
>>Thank you all and those who wrote me in private. This generous
>>technical support is needed for developing experience on 160 among
>>3V hams (mostly youngsters). I hope we will be ready with strong
>>100W signals this winter!
>>
>>73 from Tunisia
>>
>>Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
>>www.kf5eyy.info
>>
>>
>>
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: donov...@starpower.net
>>To: topband@contesting.com
>>Cc: "Ashraf Chaabane" 
>>Sent: 04/07/2018 19:00:33
>>Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
>>
>>>Hello Ash,
>>>
>>>Your results are normal for a typical Beverage. Receiving performance
>>>is not significantly degraded by imperfect matching of the coaxial
>>> feedline
>>>to the Beverage feed point or by non-optimum termination resistance.
>>>You could optimize your matching transformer and termination resistor
>>>but the improvement in receiving performance will be very minor.
>>>
>>>On the other hand, Beverage antenna receiving performance can be
>>>significantly degraded by:
>>> - nearby antennas, power lines and other long conductors, and
>>> - common mode signals coupled into the feedline
>>>
>>>You could optimize your matching transformer to reduce the VSWR to
>>>closer to 1:1 on the frequencies you care about most, but you won't
>>>notice any improvement in receiving performance.
>>>
>>>You could optimize your Beverage termination by:
>>>- adding extra ground rods and/or short radials to improve
>>> ground resistance
>>>   stability at the connection to termination resistor.
>>>- adjusting the termination resistance to minimize the VSWR
>>> excursion
>>>   as you sweep from 1.5 to about 10 MHz
>>>
>>>73
>>>Frank
>>>W3LPL
>>>
>>>
>>>From: "Ashraf Chaabane" 
>>>To: topband@contesting.com
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 2:13:27 PM
>>>Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
>>>
>>>Hi All
>>>
>>>I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between
>>> 1.5
>>>and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
>>>https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing
>>>)
>>>I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting
>>>adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the
>>> transformer
>>>number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?
>>>
>>>73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
>>>_
>>>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>_
>>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> Nick Hall-Patch
> Victoria, BC
> Canada
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>


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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Nick Hall-Patch]

Hi Ash,

I see that you are evaluating your Beverage antenna by using 
SWR.   Have you actually adjusted the termination resistance to null 
medium-wave broadcasters located off the back end of the 
antenna?   If so, what was the value of that termination resistance?


If not, it might be worthwhile to make that adjustment in order to 
understand better your antenna.   As others have pointed out however, 
the Beverage will work well without optimizing its termination, but 
it sounds as if you would like to understand its operation more clearly.


If your ground conductivity is very poor, much of your termination 
resistance will be made up of the resistance between the ground 
rod(s) and the earth, and that resistance can be substantial when 
using short ground rods in poorly conductive ground.   Perhaps only a 
small value of termination resistor will actually be needed, even 
though the impedance of the antenna is around 500 ohms.  And, that 
termination resistance will possibly vary with the season of the year.


I have had to use zero ohms termination at one site, as that provided 
the best null for a medium-wave broadcast signal off the back end of 
the Beverage antenna.  Perhaps the resistance to earth at that site 
was even in excess of 500 ohms, so I would have needed to create a 
better system of ground rods to improve the null further.   I imagine 
the SWR of that antenna varied quite a lot with frequency.


The Saudi and Egyptian broadcasters that you will use for nulling are 
quite powerful I believe, so I hope that they do not suffer from 
short term fading at night that can make a null difficult to find.


best of luck with this project,

Nick
VE7DXR



At 14:33 2018-07-06, Ashraf Chaabane wrote:

Hi Mark, Peter,

The BC station to be used to minimize the back lobe would be in 
Egypt or Saoudi Arabia right on the back of my beverage antenna. 
That should offer signals coming well above 10deg (I presume!). 
Comment noted regarding how efficient that will be on 1820 kHz. I 
know Egypt has BC station on Medium Wave which isn't that far from 160m.


Frank,

I have two 3-feets rods at each end so far with two buried radials 
at the feed end. I will add radials at the termination side as well 
as you recommend.


For the sake of experimentation, I  will play a bit with the 
termination resistor trying to flatten the SWR curve as much as 
possible, although, as many said, I shouldn't expect a noticeable 
improvement in reception.


Thank you all and those who wrote me in private. This generous 
technical support is needed for developing experience on 160 among 
3V hams (mostly youngsters). I hope we will be ready with strong 
100W signals this winter!


73 from Tunisia

Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
www.kf5eyy.info



-- Original Message --
From: donov...@starpower.net
To: topband@contesting.com
Cc: "Ashraf Chaabane" 
Sent: 04/07/2018 19:00:33
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning


Hello Ash,

Your results are normal for a typical Beverage. Receiving performance
is not significantly degraded by imperfect matching of the coaxial feedline
to the Beverage feed point or by non-optimum termination resistance.
You could optimize your matching transformer and termination resistor
but the improvement in receiving performance will be very minor.

On the other hand, Beverage antenna receiving performance can be
significantly degraded by:
- nearby antennas, power lines and other long conductors, and
- common mode signals coupled into the feedline

You could optimize your matching transformer to reduce the VSWR to
closer to 1:1 on the frequencies you care about most, but you won't
notice any improvement in receiving performance.

You could optimize your Beverage termination by:
   - adding extra ground rods and/or short radials to improve 
ground resistance

  stability at the connection to termination resistor.
   - adjusting the termination resistance to minimize the VSWR excursion
  as you sweep from 1.5 to about 10 MHz

73
Frank
W3LPL


From: "Ashraf Chaabane" 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 2:13:27 PM
Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

Hi All

I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5
and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing
)
I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting
adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer
number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?

73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
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Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada 


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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Ashraf Chaabane]

Hi Mark, Peter,

The BC station to be used to minimize the back lobe would be in Egypt or 
Saoudi Arabia right on the back of my beverage antenna. That should 
offer signals coming well above 10deg (I presume!). Comment noted 
regarding how efficient that will be on 1820 kHz. I know Egypt has BC 
station on Medium Wave which isn't that far from 160m.


Frank,

I have two 3-feets rods at each end so far with two buried radials at 
the feed end. I will add radials at the termination side as well as you 
recommend.


For the sake of experimentation, I  will play a bit with the termination 
resistor trying to flatten the SWR curve as much as possible, although, 
as many said, I shouldn't expect a noticeable improvement in reception.


Thank you all and those who wrote me in private. This generous technical 
support is needed for developing experience on 160 among 3V hams (mostly 
youngsters). I hope we will be ready with strong 100W signals this 
winter!


73 from Tunisia

Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
www.kf5eyy.info



-- Original Message --
From: donov...@starpower.net
To: topband@contesting.com
Cc: "Ashraf Chaabane" 
Sent: 04/07/2018 19:00:33
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning


Hello Ash,

Your results are normal for a typical Beverage. Receiving performance
is not significantly degraded by imperfect matching of the coaxial 
feedline

to the Beverage feed point or by non-optimum termination resistance.
You could optimize your matching transformer and termination resistor
but the improvement in receiving performance will be very minor.

On the other hand, Beverage antenna receiving performance can be
significantly degraded by:
- nearby antennas, power lines and other long conductors, and
- common mode signals coupled into the feedline

You could optimize your matching transformer to reduce the VSWR to
closer to 1:1 on the frequencies you care about most, but you won't
notice any improvement in receiving performance.

You could optimize your Beverage termination by:
   - adding extra ground rods and/or short radials to improve ground 
resistance

  stability at the connection to termination resistor.
   - adjusting the termination resistance to minimize the VSWR 
excursion

  as you sweep from 1.5 to about 10 MHz

73
Frank
W3LPL


From: "Ashraf Chaabane" 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 2:13:27 PM
Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

Hi All

I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 
1.5

and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing
)
I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are 
suggesting
adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the 
transformer

number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?

73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Peter Voelpel]

I guess Ashraf wants the BC signal just to optimize for f/b, so no local
signal or interference.

SWR is irrelevant with a beverage, everything below 3 will be OK and it does
its job with higher SWR as well.

73
Peter, DJ7WW

 

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
pa...@home.nl
Sent: Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2018 21:56
To: 'Ashraf Chaabane'
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

Another question might be; how close by is this BC station or any other AM
BCB stations?
Please consider a HP BC stopfilter

73 Mark, PA5MW


-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:40 PM
To: pa...@home.nl
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

Mark,

I'm planning to have the termination value adjustment excercice for F/B
maximisation using a BC station signal. However, does SWR measurement have
to do also with the termination value? Or that's rather the matching
transformer that I should act on?
I now have an antenna analyzer and multimeter. What kind of optimization I
can carry out? (The beverage is permanently installed).

73 Ash

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:23 PM  wrote:

> Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is 
> exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer.
> Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or 
> such, will affect readings too.
>
> I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and 
> you have the time and tools available.
>
> 73 Mark, PA5MW
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband  On Behalf Of Ashraf 
> Chaabane
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
>
> Hi All
>
> I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 
> 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?us
> p=shar
> ing
> )
> I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are 
> suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking 
> the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?
>
> 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>

--
Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY
http://www.kf5eyy.info/
Phone/SMS/Whatsapp: (+216) 22670026
Skype: kf5eyy
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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[pa5mw]

Another question might be; how close by is this BC station or any other AM
BCB stations?
Please consider a HP BC stopfilter

73 Mark, PA5MW


-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:40 PM
To: pa...@home.nl
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

Mark,

I'm planning to have the termination value adjustment excercice for F/B
maximisation using a BC station signal. However, does SWR measurement have
to do also with the termination value? Or that's rather the matching
transformer that I should act on?
I now have an antenna analyzer and multimeter. What kind of optimization I
can carry out? (The beverage is permanently installed).

73 Ash

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:23 PM  wrote:

> Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is 
> exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer.
> Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or 
> such, will affect readings too.
>
> I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and 
> you have the time and tools available.
>
> 73 Mark, PA5MW
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband  On Behalf Of Ashraf 
> Chaabane
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
>
> Hi All
>
> I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 
> 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?us
> p=shar
> ing
> )
> I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are 
> suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking 
> the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?
>
> 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>

--
Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY
http://www.kf5eyy.info/
Phone/SMS/Whatsapp: (+216) 22670026
Skype: kf5eyy
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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[donovanf]

Hello Ash, 


Your results are normal for a typical Beverage. Receiving performance 
is not significantly degraded by imperfect matching of the coaxial feedline 
to the Beverage feed point or by non-optimum termination resistance. 

You could optimize your matching transformer and termination resistor 
but the improvement in receiving performance will be very minor. 


On the other hand, Beverage antenna r eceiving performance can be 
significantly degraded by: 
- nearby antennas, power lines and other long conductors, and 
- common mode signals coupled into the feedline 


You could optimize your matching transformer to reduce the VSWR to 
closer to 1:1 on the frequencies you care about most, but you won't 
notice any improvement in receiving performance. 



You could optimize your Beverage termination by: 
- adding extra ground rods and/or short radials to improve ground resistance 
stability at the connection to termination resistor. 
- adjusting the termination resistance to minimize the VSWR excursion 
as you sweep from 1.5 to about 10 MHz 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Ashraf Chaabane"  
To: topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 2:13:27 PM 
Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning 

Hi All 

I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5 
and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing 
) 
I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting 
adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer 
number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? 

73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY 
_ 
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_
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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Lloyd - N9LB]

Hello Ash!

For a broadband RX antenna, that match looks good.  Exactly what I see with
my AIM analyzer when looking at my BOGs.  Don't mess with it.

73

Lloyd - N9LB

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ashraf
Chaabane
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 9:13 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

Hi All

I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5
and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=shar
ing
)
I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting
adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer
number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?

73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[pa5mw]

Hi Ash,

Some info:

-  SWR curve median will always slowly rise. 
No action; this has to do with parameters which slowly affect at higher
freq.
That is rather irrelevant on the lowbands 160-80-40

- Termination +matching adjustment is optimal at 'minimal amplitude' of the
SWR curve 
Meaning; the waves must be 'as small as possible'.
It might never be flat, I have never ben able to get there. Maybe others can
give better advice here.
But does it matter when not SWR 1? No.

- Matching optimal beverage impedance to coax
Like when all is set optimal but the whole beverage antenna is not 450 Ohms
but 530 ==> stick with the 9:1 
Or, at a BOG where installation is near ground, impedance is abt 220 Ohms
==> stick with 4:1
A better matching is possible by altering the transformer windings. 
But  again, does it matter?
Can you make more QSO's?
I have not seen/read any proof on this yet.

Please also note:

Local environment, as well as length/install- height of beverage wire will
determin the 3D pattern
Local ground/air humidity will change performance slightly

Adjusting F/B to local BC signal can be distracting because:
BC freq is out of band and a good F/B at <1600kHz does not mean it is now
optimal at 1830kHz as well..
Groundwave BC signals arrive at 0 degrees; you want to adjust FB at incoming
skywave (10< >50 degrees) signals instead
What reference you should use depends on your QTH and the first wave of
incoming (Europe?) QRM

I hope others, with more experience on this subject will have a better
answer here.

In general, my experience is a beverage antenna will work rather quickly and
perform well.
There is just no bad-adjustment possible.

73 Mark, PA5MW



-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:40 PM
To: pa...@home.nl
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

Mark,

I'm planning to have the termination value adjustment excercice for F/B
maximisation using a BC station signal. However, does SWR measurement have
to do also with the termination value? Or that's rather the matching
transformer that I should act on?
I now have an antenna analyzer and multimeter. What kind of optimization I
can carry out? (The beverage is permanently installed).

73 Ash

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:23 PM  wrote:

> Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is 
> exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer.
> Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or 
> such, will affect readings too.
>
> I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and 
> you have the time and tools available.
>
> 73 Mark, PA5MW
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband  On Behalf Of Ashraf 
> Chaabane
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
>
> Hi All
>
> I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 
> 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?us
> p=shar
> ing
> )
> I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are 
> suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking 
> the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?
>
> 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>

--
Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY
http://www.kf5eyy.info/
Phone/SMS/Whatsapp: (+216) 22670026
Skype: kf5eyy
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Ashraf Chaabane]

Mark,

I'm planning to have the termination value adjustment excercice for F/B
maximisation using a BC station signal. However, does SWR measurement have
to do also with the termination value? Or that's rather the matching
transformer that I should act on?
I now have an antenna analyzer and multimeter. What kind of optimization I
can carry out? (The beverage is permanently installed).

73 Ash

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:23 PM  wrote:

> Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is
> exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer.
> Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or such,
> will affect readings too.
>
> I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and you
> have
> the time and tools available.
>
> 73 Mark, PA5MW
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband  On Behalf Of Ashraf
> Chaabane
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
>
> Hi All
>
> I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5
> and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=shar
> ing
> )
> I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting
> adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer
> number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?
>
> 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>

-- 
Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY
http://www.kf5eyy.info/
Phone/SMS/Whatsapp: (+216) 22670026
Skype: kf5eyy
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[pa5mw]

Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is
exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer.
Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or such,
will affect readings too.

I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and you have
the time and tools available.

73 Mark, PA5MW



-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

Hi All

I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5
and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=shar
ing
)
I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting
adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer
number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?

73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> What shall I do?

Nothing?  What you measure should have no practical impact on
performance.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2018-07-04 10:13 AM, Ashraf Chaabane wrote:

Hi All

I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5
and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing
)
I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting
adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer
number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?

73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning

[Ashraf Chaabane]

Hi All

I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5
and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing
)
I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting
adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer
number of windings for a good match. What shall I do?

73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Beverage antenna in woods.

[k1fz]

 Here in mid-coast Maine, the big wet snow storm is starting to melt.  The East 
Beverage was not hearing 4T4TA well, and an inspection found breaks and 
multiple large branches on the wire. 
 Two support poles were  also down under very large branches. Large branches 
here can have the diameter of trees of some localities.  Sliding wire schemes 
are good, but when a support pole gets slammed on both side of an insulator at 
the same time,  it does not always work. 

 Beverages in the woods can help us old guys get the exercise we need. (;  ))

 73
 Bruce-K1FZ

 www.qsl.net/k1fz/pennantnotes.html

  
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Beverage antenna in woods.

[donovanf]

Hi Bruce, 

My temporary 8-circle vertical array re-installed every fall/winter 
season on a borrowed 4 acre farm field 1200 feet south of the full 
size transmit 4-square provides lots of exercise too! :) Lots more 
fun than exercise machines. 

I know, its not a Beverage... But it definitely is an amazing receiving 
antenna 

I still have a few 580 foot Beverage backup antennas. 
You can never have too many antennas 

73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: k...@myfairpoint.net 
To: Topband topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 3:37:32 PM 
Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna in woods. 



Here in mid-coast Maine, the big wet snow storm is starting to melt. The East 
Beverage was not hearing 4T4TA well, and an inspection found breaks and 
multiple large branches on the wire. 
Two support poles were also down under very large branches. Large branches here 
can have the diameter of trees of some localities. Sliding wire schemes are 
good, but when a support pole gets slammed on both side of an insulator at the 
same time, it does not always work. 

Beverages in the woods can help us old guys get the exercise we need. (;  )) 

73 
Bruce-K1FZ 

www.qsl.net/k1fz/pennantnotes.html 


_ 
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_
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Topband: Beverage antenna isolation measurements

[Charles Stackhouse via Topband]

 I have just finished installing 6 Beverage antennas in the woods north of 
my house. Details are below. My question to the group involves measuring the 
isolation of these antennas from my transmitting antennas. I am testing by 
transmitting on all bands with either 100 or 500 watts and simultaneously 
measuring RF levels on the Beverage feedline in the shack.  Eventually I want 
to set up an SO2R station. To measure the power, I am using a homebrew RF 
power meter kitted by Kanga and based on the AD8307 (QST June 2001 - W7ZOI and 
W7PUA). This is a 50 ohm instrument and I feed the Beverages with 75 ohm RG-6.  
 This means a nominal VSWR of 1.5:1 (14 db return loss).  I placed an ICE Model 
401 bandstop BCP filter in front of the meter. 
 The raw results look good with the worst isolation to date being 65 db, 
i.e. 160 microwatts while transmitting with 500 watts.  I have some more 
measurements to finish with the triband yagi aimed in a few different 
directions.
 How much inaccuracy is there in this method due to the 75/50 ohm mismatch 
at such low power levels (16 nanowatts to 160 milliwatts)?  Is there an easy 
mathematical correction (for a guy who took calculus 39 years ago) for the 
impedance mismatch or does it matter?

   
Beverage antenna details: (map of Beverages is on my QRZ.com page)
My Beverage antenna project is completed and the 6 antennas seem to work well.  
They are between 470 and 860 feet long so as to stay on my property and radiate 
from a central hub. I used 17g galvanized fence wire 7 feet high held up with 
plastic fence insulators nailed to trees.   They point to 40, 80, 160, 240, 280 
and 340 degrees.  I terminate them with Ohmite 470 ohm 2 watt resistors. The 
transformers are the usual 6.25:1 (5T,2T) on a BN73-202 core. Four foot ground 
rods are driven at the ends of each Beverage. There is 20-30 feet of RG-6 coax 
from the transformers to the homebrew switchbox. I use 24v relays (RK1-24V) and 
run almost 600 feet of CAT5 for a control line.  Unused antennas are not 
grounded. The RG6 feedline goes about 30 feet from the switch towards the shack 
where the braid is grounded.  I put a K9YC choke (8 turns of the RG-6 wound 
around a #31 Big Clamp-On) on the shack side of the braid ground and then the 
coax runs almost 600 feet back to the shack. I ground the braid again just 
outside the shack. In the shack is a homebrew switch box containing a 24v 
linear power supply and a 7 position rotary switch. (The 7th position is 
labelled for an external switch when I get around to building one similar to 
LA4HIA).
Thanks for reading this verbose question. I spared readers the details of 
cutting paths for these antennas totalling 4090 feet through woods infested 
with an understory of invasive European buckthorn, multiflora rose, and 
honeysuckle. Of course it was done in the hottest, most humid and most mosquito 
infested part of our late summer.
73, Charlie W2GN
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Grant Saviers]

There are plenty of Allen Bradley 1w real carbon composition resistors 
on ebay at prices ranging from $0.25 ea to absurdium.  Buy some that you 
can series/parellel to get the value you want.  If it doesn't say A-B on 
the packaging, squash one in your vice.  I've found wire-wounds inside 
some (likely Chinese) look-a-like claimed carbon comps, after tests made 
no sense.  These are tough non-inductive resistors, but values may have 
drifted a bit with age.


Grant KZ1W


On 9/24/2013 7:46 PM, Bruce wrote:
They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find 
something better like carbon film.



- Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com
To: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations



What kind of resistors are you using?

They shouldn't do that if you use the right type.

- Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM
Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations


After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage 
antennas lost some directivity. Termination resistors looked normal, 
but an ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone

hundreds of ohms higher.  Replaced resistors and back to normal.

73
Bruce-K1FZ
www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html



_
Topband Reflector


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09/24/13




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Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Bruce]

After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas lost some 
directivity.  Termination resistors looked normal, but an ohmmeter checked 
reviled they had each gone
hundreds of ohms higher.  Replaced resistors and back to normal.  

73
Bruce-K1FZ
www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html


 
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Tom W8JI]

What kind of resistors are you using?

They shouldn't do that if you use the right type.

- Original Message - 
From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net

To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM
Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations


After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas lost 
some directivity.  Termination resistors looked normal, but an ohmmeter 
checked reviled they had each gone

hundreds of ohms higher.  Replaced resistors and back to normal.

73
Bruce-K1FZ
www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html



_
Topband Reflector


-
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13



_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Bruce]

They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something 
better like carbon film.



- Original Message - 
From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com

To: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations



What kind of resistors are you using?

They shouldn't do that if you use the right type.

- Original Message - 
From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net

To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM
Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations


After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas 
lost some directivity.  Termination resistors looked normal, but an 
ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone

hundreds of ohms higher.  Replaced resistors and back to normal.

73
Bruce-K1FZ
www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html



_
Topband Reflector


-
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Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13



_
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Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[George Dubovsky]

Look at the Ohmite OX and OY series of resistors; they are pretty rugged
under surge conditions and, as best I can measure, they are claimed to be
non-inductive at HF.

73,

geo - n4ua


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net wrote:

 They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something
 better like carbon film.


 - Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com
 To: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:55 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations


  What kind of resistors are you using?

 They shouldn't do that if you use the right type.

 - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net
 To: topband@contesting.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM
 Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations


  After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas
 lost some directivity.  Termination resistors looked normal, but an
 ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone
 hundreds of ohms higher.  Replaced resistors and back to normal.

 73
 Bruce-K1FZ
 www.qsl.net/k1fz/**bogantennanotes/index.htmlhttp://www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html



 _
 Topband Reflector


 -
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 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13


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 Topband Reflector


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Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Tom W8JI]

They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something 
better like carbon film.




Any resistor except a big wire wound is non-inductive on a low frequency 
like 160.


What you want is a composition type resistor, either metal or carbon, to 
handle surges without changing value.


The last thing you want is a film resistor, which is what you probably have 
right now. Carbon films or metal films increase in value after short 
duration high energy surges, because the surge blows part of the film layer 
away.








_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Michael Tope]

On 9/24/2013 6:05 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find 
something better like carbon film.




Any resistor except a big wire wound is non-inductive on a low 
frequency like 160.


What you want is a composition type resistor, either metal or carbon, 
to handle surges without changing value.


The last thing you want is a film resistor, which is what you probably 
have right now. Carbon films or metal films increase in value after 
short duration high energy surges, because the surge blows part of the 
film layer away. 


Bruce,

If you have any trouble finding the carbon composition resistors that 
Tom is recommending, Ohmite's OX/OY Series Ceramic Composition 
resistors are surge rated and readily available from various electronics 
distributors (i.e. Mouser, Digi-Key, etc):


www.ohmite.com/cat/res_ox_oy.pdf‎

73, Mike W4EF..




_
Topband Reflector

Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Bruce]

Thanks for all the termination resistor replies. Will look for Ohmite OX and OY 
series resistors.

The resistors I had were supposed to be Carbon composition, but must not have 
been. Will discard remaining ones. 

Thanks again,

73
Bruce-K1FZ 
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Mike Waters]

Here you go:

www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY471KE

I have never lost one of those to a nearby strike.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[JC N4IS]

Bruce

I lost several resistors on my WF until I started to use NTE 3 W Metal on
the vertical Waller Flag and on the Horizontal WF I am using an array of 9
parallel/series. 

http://www.nteinc.com/resistor_web/pdf/threew.pdf

Since that I never replaced it a single time in the last 4 years. The
resistor has very low inductance but it is hard to find it, average price is
near U$1.

http://www.sourceresearch.com/store1/quickstore.cfm?ProductID=48700do=detai
l



Regards
JCarlos
N4IS


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:46 PM
To: Tom W8JI; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something
better like carbon film.


- Original Message - 
From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com
To: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations


 What kind of resistors are you using?

 They shouldn't do that if you use the right type.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net
 To: topband@contesting.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM
 Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations


 After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas 
 lost some directivity.  Termination resistors looked normal, but an 
 ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone
 hundreds of ohms higher.  Replaced resistors and back to normal.

 73
 Bruce-K1FZ
 www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html



 _
 Topband Reflector


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 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13


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Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations

[Tom W8JI]

Cut one open and look at it. You can tell right away what they are.


- Original Message - 
From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net

To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:40 AM
Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations


Thanks for all the termination resistor replies. Will look for Ohmite OX 
and OY series resistors.


The resistors I had were supposed to be Carbon composition, but must not 
have been. Will discard remaining ones.


Thanks again,

73
Bruce-K1FZ
_
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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna

[The Bucks]

Thanks Mike,

I already purchased a unidirectional match from Array Solutions so I'm going to 
go with that for now to the NE.

My next beverage will be bidirectional to the NW and SE.   That should do it.   
It makes sense.

I picked up about 500ft of bailing wire at the local hardware store and will be 
getting chicken fence for additional ground on terminated side.

Need to check out the transmission performance of my dipole with cliff and 
ocean (model it).. and learn CW.  Something like 90% of all comm. on 160 is CW.

73,

Bryan.

 

[CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is 
proprietary to Mr.  Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or 
entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will 
almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the 
population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky 
recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the 
proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any 
thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such 
case, Bon AppetitNote:  A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving 
this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the 
U.N  Have a nice day.

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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna

[Les Kalmus]

Bryan,

Use RG-6 direct burial or equivalent for the beverage connection. No 
need to use LMR400.

You should be able to find it relatively inexpensively.
Make sure you have a matching transformer for the beverage impedance to 
72 ohms for the RG-6.


W8JI.com will give you just about all the information you need to make a 
transformer.


Les W2LK

On 11/9/2012 12:28 AM, Buck wh7dx wrote:

After some more reading... It looks like NE is the best approach.   Point it 
towards North America.   I can probably get it pointed at the lower states.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to go bi-directional or not and try and get Australia 
/ NZ but I think I'll go for quiet and just try NA for now.

I will need to take it up about 50-75 feet from the feed point I would guess.   
I don't now if an elevated beverage would be a negative.

The ground is mostly hard old volcanic ash with loose dirt here and there.. 
just enough to make you fall down   It's usually always dry and I'm 
thinking it is a very poor ground.

Drill a few holes for copper ground rods on both side?   Put about 10 radial 
wires on the rods and spread them around.   In Hawaii I'm thinking bailing wire 
but it will rust.  Fence wire isn't common.

Question..  I was going to start the beverage pretty close to the 40, 80  160 
dipole in the tree..  I'm low on LMR400.   Last of my spool.

If it was important, I could order more from mainland and start it higher on 
the mountain - giving me a more horizontal antenna.

Should I be concerned with the beverage distance, using it for receiving and 
probably on a different radio?

Thank you.

Bryan WH7DX




[CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is 
proprietary to Mr.  Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or 
entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost 
certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, 
which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears 
that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard 
of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this 
email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote:  A $.02 
Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some 
family somewhere in America or the U.N  Have a nice day.

___
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___
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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna

[Buck wh7dx]

I was just reading about SALT spray in Hawaii and the what it does to the 
soil..  I never thought about that.  Salt spray and not much rain for me.  
Salty volcanic top soil/rock?

Again, thanks for all the emails.Helped walk it through.   

Going N/E and taking it as far away from Dipoles as 125ft of coax will take me 
:-)

Cutting 8ft copper grounding rod into 2 or more pieces.   Can't pound them in 
very far... will need to drill them in as anchors for radials.

Using radial wire (whatever I can get here).. to run some wires out from the 
copper ground at the feed point (attach one to galvanized fence in the area??) 
and put MORE on the terminated end.. one or two long ones 100ft?

I'm wondering if I'll see a difference in performance when it rains and washes 
away the salt spray on the ground?


This was an interesting site...  the Top Band info was really useful.

http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/index.html


This is funny... so Hawaii...
The first problem is to get from the traditional local relative directions 
such as Mauka, to actual compass references, the concepts seldom used in Hawaii 
such as north and east.

Streets are usually not much help at all, since they seem to delight in going 
on all sorts of wierd angles. Besides, when North and South King Street run 
mostly east and west and North King is south of South King Street, it is not 
surprising that few in Hawaii can actually point north from any given location. 
In fact, finding any map of Hawaii that contains latitude and longitude lines 
is a struggle, and many maps of Hawaii seem to have even given up on the 
tradition of printing maps with north at the top!


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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna

[donovanf]

Bryan,

Galvanized chicken wire (wire mesh) makes a superb ground for Beverage 
terminations especially in your ideal (for Beverage antenna performance) dry 
rocky environment.  

A 20 or 30 foot length of wire mesh should perform very well on 160 meters.  
Run it perpendicular to the end of your Beverage if possible, otherwise run it 
in whatever direction you can.  If it lays under the Beverage, the portion of 
the Beverage directly above the wire mesh will behave more like a low loss 
transmission line than an antenna.

I would encourage you to install the Beverage far from your transmit antenna, 
RG-6 is a excellent inexpensive solution.  

While a low dipole may get you on the air, an inverted-L vertical with ground 
redials will be far superior.  Try to get as much vertical height as possible, 
at least 40-50 feet if at all possible.  More is better.

73
Frank
W3LPL



 Original message 
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:02:36 -0500
From: Les Kalmus w...@bk-lk.com  
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna  
To: topband@contesting.com

Bryan,

Use RG-6 direct burial or equivalent for the beverage connection. No 
need to use LMR400.
You should be able to find it relatively inexpensively.
Make sure you have a matching transformer for the beverage impedance to 
72 ohms for the RG-6.

W8JI.com will give you just about all the information you need to make a 
transformer.

Les W2LK

On 11/9/2012 12:28 AM, Buck wh7dx wrote:
 After some more reading... It looks like NE is the best approach.   Point it 
 towards North America.   I can probably get it pointed at the lower states.

 I wasn't sure if I wanted to go bi-directional or not and try and get 
 Australia / NZ but I think I'll go for quiet and just try NA for now.

 I will need to take it up about 50-75 feet from the feed point I would 
 guess.   I don't now if an elevated beverage would be a negative.

 The ground is mostly hard old volcanic ash with loose dirt here and there.. 
 just enough to make you fall down   It's usually always dry and I'm 
 thinking it is a very poor ground.

 Drill a few holes for copper ground rods on both side?   Put about 10 radial 
 wires on the rods and spread them around.   In Hawaii I'm thinking bailing 
 wire but it will rust.  Fence wire isn't common.

 Question..  I was going to start the beverage pretty close to the 40, 80  
 160 dipole in the tree..  I'm low on LMR400.   Last of my spool.

 If it was important, I could order more from mainland and start it higher on 
 the mountain - giving me a more horizontal antenna.

 Should I be concerned with the beverage distance, using it for receiving and 
 probably on a different radio?

 Thank you.

 Bryan WH7DX




 [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email 
 is proprietary to Mr.  Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the 
 individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it 
 ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a 
 large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the 
 intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to 
 you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are 
 notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely 
 your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote:  A $.02 Internet Tax was 
 charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family 
 somewhere in America or the U.N  Have a nice day.

 ___
 Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna

[Mike Waters]

That is excellent advice! 160 is a band for vertically-polarized antennas
(such as an inverted-L or shunt-fed tower with radials lying on the ground.)
http://www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html

73, Mike
http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:41 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

 While a low dipole may get you on the air, an inverted-L vertical with
 ground redials will be far superior.  Try to get as much vertical height as
 possible, at least 40-50 feet

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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna

[Mike Waters]

Have you ever thought of using a 2-wire bi-directional Beverage? They are
not complex at all. It only takes one more wire, two more simple
transformers, and one more run of coax. A remote relay and four extra parts
even lets you use just one run of coax for both directions.

If you run a single wire Beverage in the opposite direction, then you have
to put up twice as many supports (unless you have trees). But with a
two-wire Beverage, you can use the same supports for both directions.

73, Mike
http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Buck wh7dx wh...@hawaii.rr.com wrote:


 Use RG-6 line in the future and run another Beverage in the opposite
 direction - NW.

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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna

[Grant Saviers]

I'm not sure why the bidirectional coaxial cable Beveridge doesn't get 
more discussion.  It is described in ON4UN's book, and seemed to work 
fine when I built one at a prior QTH, although it does take two 
feedlines from what would logically be the closest end to the shack.  
Given the price of RG6 and surplus RG58/59 it is easier and potentially 
cheaper than open wire feedline.  Three transformers and no relays.  
(page 7-88 5th edition and earlier editions as well)


Is there some reason that a pair of open wires are significantly better?

Grant KZ1W


On 11/9/2012 4:24 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

Have you ever thought of using a 2-wire bi-directional Beverage? They are
not complex at all. It only takes one more wire, two more simple
transformers, and one more run of coax. A remote relay and four extra parts
even lets you use just one run of coax for both directions.

If you run a single wire Beverage in the opposite direction, then you have
to put up twice as many supports (unless you have trees). But with a
two-wire Beverage, you can use the same supports for both directions.

73, Mike
http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Buck wh7dx wh...@hawaii.rr.com wrote:


Use RG-6 line in the future and run another Beverage in the opposite
direction - NW.


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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna

[Mike Waters]

That's a good question. :-)

Maybe it has something to do with the tension each one will stand. I think
that CW or plated steel fence wire will stand a lot more tensioning than
coax.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Grant Saviers gran...@pacbell.net wrote:

 I'm not sure why the bidirectional coaxial cable Beveridge doesn't get
 more discussion.  It is described in ON4UN's book, and seemed to work fine
 when I built one at a prior QTH, although it does take two feedlines from
 what would logically be the closest end to the shack.  Given the price of
 RG6 and surplus RG58/59 it is easier and potentially cheaper than open wire
 feedline.  Three transformers and no relays.  (page 7-88 5th edition and
 earlier editions as well)

 Is there some reason that a pair of open wires are significantly better?

 Grant KZ1W



 On 11/9/2012 4:24 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

 Have you ever thought of using a 2-wire bi-directional Beverage? They are
 not complex at all. It only takes one more wire, two more simple
 transformers, and one more run of coax. A remote relay and four extra
 parts
 even lets you use just one run of coax for both directions.

 If you run a single wire Beverage in the opposite direction, then you have
 to put up twice as many supports (unless you have trees). But with a
 two-wire Beverage, you can use the same supports for both directions.

 73, Mike
 http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_**antennas.htmlhttp://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html

 On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Buck wh7dx wh...@hawaii.rr.com wrote:

  Use RG-6 line in the future and run another Beverage in the opposite
 direction - NW.

  __**_
 Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com



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Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna;

[Mike Greenway]

Guy, yes I am using WD1A on a 800 ft reversible around 12 high that has helped 
me work some tough ones in both directions E-W.  I am using KD9SVs matching 
units.  I have nothing to compare it with right now.  73 Mike K4PI
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