Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
Why not use 'em all? (LoTW, eQSL, ClubLog, hard card) Although hard QSLs have a nice physical presence, I can only say a handful of the hard cards I get are not computer generated, most also for award purposes. Of the hundreds that roll in, maybe a half dozen have a neat design, or better yet a personal message worthy of a smile, or chuckle. Generally I don't expect anything considering how many are contest related contacts. It's easy enough to upload logs and take care of the Ham on the other end who may not use real QSLs. 72/3, Julius Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://k4tcg.org/ http://groups.google.com/group/tcg1?hl=en Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3/100 # --- On Fri, 2/17/12, Eddy Swynar deswy...@xplornet.ca wrote: From: Eddy Swynar deswy...@xplornet.ca Subject: Re: Topband: LOTW Participation To: Jeff w...@arrl.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 9:16 AM On 2012-02-16, at 9:25 PM, Jeff wrote: ...so we can get those coveted awards we all like. Hi Jeff et al, I certainly have nothing against LotW, or the folks who swear by it. It is the coming thing IMHO, and given time will surely render hardcopy QSLs a place atop the scrap heap of Ham radio history that includes such quaint novelties as spark transmissions, cat's whisker detectors, separate transmitter-receivers, etc. etc. Personally, however---despite its many obvious advantages---I want no part of it. I enjoy the look feel of an honest-to-goodness QSL card in my hands, even after 41 years in the game, I still thrill at the prospect of opening up that fresh bundle of cards that might await me in my mail box from the QSL bureau. Look at this way: LotW caters especially to the awards-seeking crowd, correct? Instant gratification! Great! But what if the ARRL, and others, was to suddenly announce that they'd no longer issue hard copy certificates---virtual awards only, viewable on-line...? I wonder if that might cool one's enthusiasm for ANY paper-chasing. We now have virtual QSL cards---can virtual awards be far behind...? So many objects of desire in to-day's society anymore seem to be reduced to fleeting collections of electrons visible on a computer screen: turn the power off, the objects are gone. Yet real, paper QSLs are actual things that can easily outlive our own stay in this place time---I liken them to leaving proverbial footprints in the sands of time. Long after MY own ...collection of BIOLOGICAL electrons ceases to function disappears, my hard copy cards certificates, for better or worse, of relevance or none, will remain, testament at least to the fact that at one time I really truly was here... Somehow I just don't think the virtual world of eQSLs LotW will work quite the same way... ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
Why not do both, Eddy...I enjoy QSL cards, too...but LOTW has not prevented me from getting the QSL cards. It has relieved me of the burden of a big part of card checking for the DXCC awards that I want. While it is true that if you confirm on LOTW someone may not initiate sending a card to you to get yours, if you want a card from them you can always send for it. Eh? 73 de Greg-N4CC -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Eddy Swynar Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 7:16 AM To: Jeff Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: LOTW Participation On 2012-02-16, at 9:25 PM, Jeff wrote: ...so we can get those coveted awards we all like. Hi Jeff et al, I certainly have nothing against LotW, or the folks who swear by it. It is the coming thing IMHO, and given time will surely render hardcopy QSLs a place atop the scrap heap of Ham radio history that includes such quaint novelties as spark transmissions, cat's whisker detectors, separate transmitter-receivers, etc. etc. Personally, however---despite its many obvious advantages---I want no part of it. I enjoy the look feel of an honest-to-goodness QSL card in my hands, even after 41 years in the game, I still thrill at the prospect of opening up that fresh bundle of cards that might await me in my mail box from the QSL bureau. Look at this way: LotW caters especially to the awards-seeking crowd, correct? Instant gratification! Great! But what if the ARRL, and others, was to suddenly announce that they'd no longer issue hard copy certificates---virtual awards only, viewable on-line...? I wonder if that might cool one's enthusiasm for ANY paper-chasing. We now have virtual QSL cards---can virtual awards be far behind...? So many objects of desire in to-day's society anymore seem to be reduced to fleeting collections of electrons visible on a computer screen: turn the power off, the objects are gone. Yet real, paper QSLs are actual things that can easily outlive our own stay in this place time---I liken them to leaving proverbial footprints in the sands of time. Long after MY own ...collection of BIOLOGICAL electrons ceases to function disappears, my hard copy cards certificates, for better or worse, of relevance or none, will remain, testament at least to the fact that at one time I really truly was here... Somehow I just don't think the virtual world of eQSLs LotW will work quite the same way... ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
Like VE3XZ I like real cards. But, striking out for my goal of over 300 on each HF band, less 160 where I don't have enough goo nor enough years, I concluded the expense could be better directed toward making the QSO, than confirming it. My logger (DXLabSuite) shows in its packet application and its logging apparatus who is LoTW active. For non-low bands (40 and down) I don't seek to work non-LoTW users unless its relatively rare enough that I'd choose to send a card, or its an expedition I'll also work on the low bands. On the theory someone else will show up who is on LoTW. Or unless I just want to yak. As far as QSLs preserved for posterity it seems to me the family that keeps little postcards around as memorials, which mean just about nothing to the non hams except my Dad did this, are few and far between. I expect my QSL's and awards will be in the trash poste haste once my corpus lands there. Meanwhile things change. CQ mag has the Marathon. Getting involved in that, now I work anything. Total renewal every year, no QSLs required. Then GlobalQSL came along, taking some of the expense and most of the pain out of QSLing, for example, an entire contest log. Now it seems more like a balancing act between my personal goals, finance, and the electronic tools. Gotta run now. TU2T and 6O0N cards just came in the mail... -- 73 Art K6XT~~ Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
It's easy enough to upload logs and take care of the Ham on the other end who may not use real QSLs. Thank you Julius. I am known as a dinosaur to my friends. I do not readily adopt new technologies and ways of doing things. But LoTW is my salvation, lest I leave the hobby altogether. I upload 100% of QSOs to LoTW, whether I need a confirmation or not. It may help the other guy! I wish more people would at least upload to LoTW to help me. I would *very* much like to have paper QSLs for all the DXCC entities I have worked on 160, but that isn't going to happen. I finally realized too many people were paying the cost for my efforts to try to keep up with the paperwork. As a result, I depend on LoTW for confirmations now. When I work a new one all I can do is hope my QSO partner will upload. To cut down incoming requests I no longer call CQ or run stations. Generally I will only call stations who are flagged by my spotting and logging software as LoTW users or whom I strongly suspect will not be needing a paper QSL from me. In a contest I only do SP, skipping stations who are not flagged as LoTW users. I'm sorry, but that is how it needs to be. I know of others who do the same, albeit for different reasons. 73, Paul N1BUG ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
On 17/02/2012 9:16 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: ...But what if the ARRL, and others, was to suddenly announce that they'd no longer issue hard copy certificates---virtual awards only, viewable on-line...? I wonder if that might cool one's enthusiasm for ANY paper-chasing. We now have virtual QSL cards---can virtual awards be far behind...? Interesting point Eddy. But I don't think paper QSL's are doomed - at least I hope not. I still have almost a hundred spaces to fill in my Topband QSL album, and LoTW and e-QSL's don't count. ( I wonder if stamp collectors recognize copies of photos of stamps as valid for their collections). I seem to remember Pogo going fishing with a picture of a worm as bait. He caught a picture of a fish. A friend of mine, a keen recreational sailor, once asked me why we Hams still used Morse code, pointing out that the Military got rid of Morse decades ago! I asked him why sailors like himself didn't switch to motor boats, since the world's navies got rid of these sailing ships a hundred years ago. He was not amused. Bert, VE3QAA ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
On 02/17/2012 09:16 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: Great! But what if the ARRL, and others, was to suddenly announce that they'd no longer issue hard copy certificates---virtual awards only, viewable on-line...? I wonder if that might cool one's enthusiasm for ANY paper-chasing. We now have virtual QSL cards---can virtual awards be far behind...? Selling the physical awards, which many people want to have, appears to be one of the main things paying for the cost of running LOTW. As long as LOTW will have bills to pay, I imagine the ARRL will continue selling physical awards. -- All rights reversed. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
Hi Eddy, One could argue when those quaint lowfer beacons first started that tape loops and the like were exotic. I do remember tape loops becoming a big deal in contesting, but for a newbie, they presented a cost obstacle. One can say the same for RTTY back in the day. Pining for the old days, well we could have LORAN back too ;o) The only constant in the world is change. I am not as fast to adopt some of the newer things, but I do see the various QSL options as a win-win situation for most. I certainly understand and respect your position, and definitely enjoy vintage QSL cards (those folks had a pretty great sense of humor). Cheers, Julius Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://k4tcg.org/ http://groups.google.com/group/tcg1?hl=en Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3/100 # --- On Fri, 2/17/12, Eddy Swynar deswy...@xplornet.ca wrote: From: Eddy Swynar deswy...@xplornet.ca Subject: Re: Topband: LOTW Participation To: Julius Fazekas phriend...@yahoo.com Cc: Jeff w...@arrl.net, topband@contesting.com Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 10:23 AM On 2012-02-17, at 9:44 AM, Julius Fazekas wrote: Why not use 'em all? (LoTW, eQSL, ClubLog, hard card) Hi Julius, Have you ever ventured forth onto the so-called Lowfers Band of 160- to 190-KHz, listened for beacons...? I did, one time I was rewarded with the thrill of hearing an VE3-based station. I was so amazed that I could copy the station despite the many restrictions conspiring against it that I actually built a beacon transmitter of my own here, obtained special permission of our licensing body to put it on the air... But that band's complexion has changed dramatically since that simpler time: the realities of the game now dictate that computer-controlled slow speed CW associated software receiving / transmitting enhancements are de riguer anymore. Gone are the quaint---but readily copyable---CW standard beacons, many of which were driven by continuous loop tapes, notched 33 RPM record albums(!) mounted atop extra-slowplaying record players, etc. To be a viable participant anymore in that part of the spectrum necessitated a considerable commitment in peripherals that the curious casual newbie simply is unprepared to invest, or even unaware of. When I mentioned this fact to one prominent guru of the VLF scene---i.e. that the door is effectively being slammed shut upon the entry of new blood into that niche because of its exclusiveness---I was promptly reminded of the superiority of the new way of doing things, and that records for long distance reception were being laid by the wayside on an almost daily basis since its near-universal acceptance. What that guru failed to appreciate was the fact that his domain had suddenly become a closed one, limited to existing members of that club---and as demographics take hold old members became SKs, there would be precious few, if any, new replacements. Correctly or not, I view electronic confirmations like LotW eQSL suspiciously. Are supporters of these any different from that exclusionary cadre of users who have abandoned CW beacons of yore on the experimenter's band? Surely the bug bit them when they first heard a beacon, just as doubtlessly the awards bug hit many of us when we received our very first QSL card. Why would anyone deny that thrill to a rookie Ham, dismissing it as being old-fashioned, when it inspired us oh-so-many years ago? An electronic notification is just not the same, IMHO...and it's hardly a much-loved tradition of Amateur radio---yet! ...But I'm doubtlessly showing my age in saying so! Let the parade proceed---I'm quite content to just sit back watch it from the sidelines. ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
On 2012-02-17, at 11:01 AM, N1BUG wrote: So by the same token, why would anyone deny the thrill of a LoTW confirmation to a ham who may not be able to chase confirmations by more traditional means? It costs nothing to upload to LoTW... Hi Paul, And therein lies the rub...! Imagine if you were mounting a DX-Pedition to some far-flung place, your sponsors came up just short of all of your expenses---the balance would doubtlessly have to be covered by your own personal out-of-pocket monies...IF you QSL'ed by LotW. On the other hand, the old-fashioned method of hard-copy QSL'ing presented an ideal venue to garner additional funds---and how many of us haven't appreciatively included an extra green stamp, or two, in the envelope containing our own QSL card before posting it in the mail, as a final thanks for helping us ...get a new one...? What avenue exists for the DX-pedition to secure extra $$$ that might encourage LotW QSL'ing...? The honour system...? While many of us remain, indeed, honourable, Hams are, in the final analysis, mere humans---and human beings being what they are, I suspect that the majority would simply ...take the QSL and run. There are advantages to anything new, AND dis-advantages...! The benefits of on-line electronic logging QSL'ing could actually have a NEGATIVE effect upon the continuation of the very activity that it supposedly plays a role in benefitting. ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
Some of the dxpeditions are allowing u to request a qsl on line with a PayPal fee as an option of sending thru the mail. Its been very reasonable and efficient to me when the option is there. I am also still getting lots of buro qsls that were already confirmed on LOTW. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 17, 2012, at 11:25 AM, Eddy Swynar deswy...@xplornet.ca wrote: On 2012-02-17, at 11:01 AM, N1BUG wrote: So by the same token, why would anyone deny the thrill of a LoTW confirmation to a ham who may not be able to chase confirmations by more traditional means? It costs nothing to upload to LoTW... Hi Paul, And therein lies the rub...! Imagine if you were mounting a DX-Pedition to some far-flung place, your sponsors came up just short of all of your expenses---the balance would doubtlessly have to be covered by your own personal out-of-pocket monies...IF you QSL'ed by LotW. On the other hand, the old-fashioned method of hard-copy QSL'ing presented an ideal venue to garner additional funds---and how many of us haven't appreciatively included an extra green stamp, or two, in the envelope containing our own QSL card before posting it in the mail, as a final thanks for helping us ...get a new one...? What avenue exists for the DX-pedition to secure extra $$$ that might encourage LotW QSL'ing...? The honour system...? While many of us remain, indeed, honourable, Hams are, in the final analysis, mere humans---and human beings being what they are, I suspect that the majority would simply ...take the QSL and run. There are advantages to anything new, AND dis-advantages...! The benefits of on-line electronic logging QSL'ing could actually have a NEGATIVE effect upon the continuation of the very activity that it supposedly plays a role in benefitting. ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
Some packet clusters also have LOTW indicators for stations registered with ARRL. When i first sent in my log of 2?years of QSo's I got 102 confirmed in seconds. It is not at all complicated and some logging programs can automatically interconnect but doing so manually is easy. Setting up for the first time just takes 10 minutes to read the instructions. It is not quite as easy as installing an iPad ap but far from rocket science if one can read. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 16, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Jeff w...@charter.net wrote: I love the LoTW system. The money I save on cards and postage goes into radios and antennas. I'm not much of a contester any more, I just kind of hunt and peck vs. SP when I do work contest stations. One of the things do is to look for DX stations that have taken the time to become active on LoTW and reward them with a W7JW contest qso. Not much of a return on their investment for sure but it does provide them with one more contest point that would other wise never have happened. So, this weekend while ur listening around on TB during the contest for new ones, think about handing out some reward points to those DX stations who went that extra mile so we can get those coveted awards we all like. -Original Message- From: Wayne Mills Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:08 PM To: wa3...@comcast.net ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: LOTW Participation Jim. There are a number of reasons why more people don't use logbook. There's the perception that it's too complicated (mostly, IT guys have problems), and the fact that non-US hams must send a letter to ARRL, unlike US hams. There are also many people who like to collect paper cards. In Europe, the bureau system is much more popular than it is in the US largely because incoming and outgoing services are free with the membership in some national societies -- never mind that their dues are far greater. Actually, however, there are ma large number of hams who do use LoTW. Some estimates put the number of at least semi-active DXers at around 100K to 150K. Consider then that the nearly 50K individual users of LoTW is quite significant. Here's something to think about: I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the percentage of regular LoTW users is higher than the percentage of non-LoTW users also who QSL regularly. LoTW is a different animal than conventional QSLing. 73, Wayne, N7NG Jackson, Wyoming -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of wa3...@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:28 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: LOTW Participation This has probably already been asked on here.. geeze I hope it doesnt start another gripefest. But I am wondering with the cost of QSL cards, postage etc Why dont more people working DX (especially hams O-CONUS) use LOTW? It appears that a lot of DX does not participate in LOTW. Is it because they dont like ARRL, dont like their activites controlled (if your not in the US you gotta mail stuff in etc.) or what? I just dont understand this is the most painless method to get confirmation you could possibly have. Or maybe they just like collecting all those cards that we put into shoe boxes and put into the closet. I just got 22 QSLs for contacts work less than two months ago.. some of them even less than a week ago. How good can it get? Sure make my work easier Jim WA3MEJ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: LOTW Participation
I love the LoTW. QSL bureau is in some countries misused to press hams into forced membership of their national ham radio organization. AFAIK it is here in OK and also in DL... LoTW is then the only way to confirm a large number of QSOs. If somebody has 100 000 QSL cards or more, he would probably need a dedicated room to store the collection. Reckon 1000 QSL cards is a pile of ~2 ft height (~60 cm)... 73 Martin, OK1RR ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
