Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report
Hey Gary, You took the words out of my mouth. I also listened on the calling QRG and found the same OTers calling, calling and calling w/o listening. One reason I like QSK so much is that I can stop calling as soon as I hear the station come back to someone, maybe even me. 73 de Walt - K2WK -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:55 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report What is sad to me is all of the bad things that have been mentioned are seen affecting every DXpedetion or unusual DX working today. It's not just the common experience of dealing with these LIDS, it is the unrelenting, continuous experience of it. I'm sure there isn't one example of stupidity in operation I can comment on that isn't familiar to each of us. I was listening to a pileup from the E3 and some lid East NE from my oceanside QTH kept calling; NA NA NA only NA NA NA ad nauseum. Then came OBAMA OBAMA NA NA NA. It's obvious the guy is mentally disturbed but that's tough to keep listening to when you're trying to hear a faint DX signal through him. It sure would have been helpful if the E3 would have shifted Tx freq a bit. Somebody sent something back to the lid about his mother and amazingly the QRM stopped with that but moments later so did the E3. The LID got his wish. As many have mentioned, the incessant calling when the the DX is not calling to them is pervasive and also seemingly eternal, crosses international sources and is by no means confined to new hams who don't know the code. I was curious to listen to the people calling the DX, as if I were the DX, and listened with the main sub on the K3, the DX in the left ear the pileup in the right. It was incredible to hear so many older calls were completely ignoring who the DX was trying to pull out; The DX calls AA2? and W1..., KP4..., W5.. not to mention myriads of EU and SA are calling in the pileup, calls that long predate any no-code licensing period. These guys know exactly what they are doing and it is intentional QRM of a different sort. I do feel rankled when people blame this on the no-code licensees. I got my Extra back 35 years ago so I have no dog in this no-code = bad CW operators in the pileups hunt. Seems to me the vast majority of offenders are long term hams who have lost their upbringing. One more thing I lament tremendously (non-pileup related), is the lack of interest in name, real signal report QTH with a QSO now-a-days. I understand computer logging makes so much irrelevant like name/QTH and that a signal report is sort of useless anyway as someone with an indoor dipole in the basement won't give or get the same report as a triband would give at the same QTH, but it is tradition. For sure, only rarely with todays radios worldwide do I hear bad signals. But... I feel badly when I make a non-DXpedetion Q and I send 579 name is Gary QTH CT and get a TU CQ CQ CQ DE XYZ in return. When I hear a bad signal on the air, I now-a-days send them an email telling them date time freq what their signal sounds like, I would want to know if my signal was defective. Amazing how very few replies I get back from those comments. Makes me wonder if they like that situation as it makes their signal stand out over the clean ones. I heard JA1NUT CQing on 15M CW remembered his QSL card from ragchews long ago, gave him a call had a45 minute ragchew with him, the first CW ragchew I've had in years it seems. Our first QSO was in 87, had a couple more till 97 and hadn't heard him till this this one in 2014. During the QSO we both lamented the loss of CW ragchews and the vogue contest-like/minimalist-style QSOs of today. I really appreciated that QSO with him. One of the things I like about this and its brother-contesting forums is what seems to be a common bond of interest in maintaining dignity in Ham Radio, and achieving a station that hears well and transmits well. I always look to see what new email comes into this folder for I know that among us are the people that make Ham Radio fun and something to share with newcomers to the hobby. These other people who don't listen or think when they transmit are beyond my comprehension. 73, Gary KA1J --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
KE1F Lou lmecs...@cfl.rr.com wrote: All what is said is true. Dx also should listen on his own TX frequency and when they hear a carrier QSY +-1 and let the DQRM-er QRM an unused frequency. Just a suggestion. I saw one of the E30FB operators doing that by sliding up a few hundred Hz transmitting while the DQRM was on. Those listening could see it and follow. That particular DQRM seemed to give up shortly afterwards. -- Brian D G3VGZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
Sometimes you don't want to follow the DX instructions... Yesterday E30FB was on 18.155, listening up 5 to 15, which ends up being out of band. That didn't stop lots calling above 18.168 K1ZO - Original Message - From: Larry lkn...@nc.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:10 AM Subject: Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report Sometimes the DXpedition is its own worst enemy. If they ask for W6 and then relent after a couple tries to work the W6 and then works someone else sends the message is you guys can bulldoze me so keep calling. Many of the later DXpeditions have been much better at this and more persistent in working the station they were calling. The problem of persisting to work they station is that it ruins your QSO rate. Of course, all of those callers can ruin your QSO rate as well. Another classic one is DX lectures on don't call while I am working a station and then proceeds W6 59, now W4 59. The W6 59, now the other W6 is understandable. Both of those scenarios give rise to constant calling unfortunately. The E30 yesterday actually worked a couple of stations that I heard almost on his own frequency which doesn't help. Sadly, I think it was an E30 pile, E30 called someone and he didn't respond. E30 called again. Someone said something like Fred send your report and Fred dutifully sent his report. Another QSO in the log. Years ago I had heard that done on 2M several times. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 12:48 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report Much of the time it is a simple mistake. I did it to the E30 tonight and I am trying to be very careful. I changed bands and came back and the split was cancelled. I was that Lid. Usually a simple up up is fine but the cops have to go off on rant. Then I hear up, I immediately look to make sure split is on and the b vfo is in the pile. Many people simply do no listen or are chasing DX on CW when they have very little comprehension of CW and are lucky to send their call and be able to understand it when called. The new disturbing trend I have seen is that nobody listens or cares what the DX asks for on Phone or CW. The Dx calls for the W6 and W1 N3 K4 PY2 etc all continue to call and call and call attempting to cover up or bulldoze the station the DX wants to steal that contact. I have watched my P3 where the station who the DX wants to work was pretty clean and then 10 people show up on that frequency. This was a behavior that used to be carried out generally by a country in Europe in the 80's. Apparently it has now caught on all over. This behavior is wrecking the rate that the DX could be going as he has to ask for fills 2 or 3 or more times. Mike W0MU On 3/14/2015 9:04 PM, Tom WA2BCK wrote: Glenn, Your summary was wonderful and loaded with excellent advice. I often wonder why stations persist in calling on the DX stations transmit frequency. Surely by now, the entire ham radio community must realize that DXpeditions operate up or down and usually do not answer calls on their own transmit frequency. It continually amazes me how many times people call on the DX stations transmit frequency. It is so frustrating! I don't know the appropriate solution but I would like to broadcast to the entire ham radio community to listen when the operator says UP. Thanks for allowing me to blow off steam! Tom WA2BCK -Original Message- From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 4:39 PM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: What IS troubling about this report from one of the K1N ops is there is nothing new here.all of his dozen plus points is/ae SO fundamental to anyone chasing DX...terrible operating habits or approaches by the majority of the DX chasers, obviously... I did work K1N with QRP power on 80, 20 and 15 so feel fortunate to squeak in, so to speak...72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV From Glen W0GJ operating at K1N (as reported in the “Gray Line Report” of the Twin Cities ARC: GOOD ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE !Feedback and Lessons I learn a lot from every DXpedition I’ve ever been on. I’ve put together a summary of my two weeks of operation from Navassa. I’m sure all of my teammates will concur with what I’ve observed and learned. European stations complained a lot for the “short time” we worked Europe. QUITE THE CONTRARY This is a MOST interesting point of discussion! If you look at the times in our logs, we spent MORE time working Europe than working North America. Our Club Log statistics, however, show that North America had 58% of the contacts, Europe 32% and Asia 6%. WHY, then, if MORE time was spent working Europe, was Europe about half the number of North American contacts??? Simple answer: RATE. Period. When you listened to us working North America, we could
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
As a guy with no lap top in the shack---hence, no immediate access to on-line chat rooms, spotting sites, etc.---what I hate most are those DX-Peditions that repeatedly work stations without ID'ing, or ID'ing only after some two dozen, or more, QSOs... Meanwhile, the proverbial ...hunt peck type sits there cursing under his breath, WHAT'S YOUR CALL SIGN...?! Amen to that! Many's the time I've listened to a (CW) pileup where 20-30 stations have been worked with never a hint of the DX's callsign - or the callsign sent once at 80wpm (I'm not that good!). It's galling, to say the least. I suppose I could repair the old laptop and install it in the shack. Come to that, I could work the chap on the internet... Keith _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
On 2015-03-15, at 9:10 AM, Larry wrote: Sometimes the DXpedition is its own worst enemy. If they ask for W6 and then relent after a couple tries to work the W6 and then works someone else sends the message is you guys can bulldoze me so keep calling. Many of the later DXpeditions have been much better at this and more persistent in working the station they were calling. The problem of persisting to work they station is that it ruins your QSO rate. Of course, all of those callers can ruin your QSO rate as well. Another classic one is DX lectures on don't call while I am working a station and then proceeds W6 59, now W4 59. The W6 59, now the other W6 is understandable. Both of those scenarios give rise to constant calling unfortunately. The E30 yesterday actually worked a couple of stations that I heard almost on his own frequency which doesn't help. Sadly, I think it was an E30 pile, E30 called someone and he didn't respond. E30 called again. Someone said something like Fred send your report and Fred dutifully sent his report. Another QSO in the log. Years ago I had heard that done on 2M several times. 73, Larry W6NWS Hi All, Talk about a DX-Pedition being its own worse enemy... As a guy with no lap top in the shack---hence, no immediate access to on-line chat rooms, spotting sites, etc.---what I hate most are those DX-Peditions that repeatedly work stations without ID'ing, or ID'ing only after some two dozen, or more, QSOs... Meanwhile, the proverbial ...hunt peck type sits there cursing under his breath, WHAT'S YOUR CALL SIGN...?! I can see where a Ham of a less than honourable disposition might be sorely tempted to put a brick atop the key wander away from the shack, jamming the entire proceedings...but seriously: does it slow the QSO rate all THAT much, to send your call sign at least every third contact, or so...? Not all of us have computers next to the rig---even less are blessed with ESP...! ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
Sometimes the DXpedition is its own worst enemy. If they ask for W6 and then relent after a couple tries to work the W6 and then works someone else sends the message is you guys can bulldoze me so keep calling. Many of the later DXpeditions have been much better at this and more persistent in working the station they were calling. The problem of persisting to work they station is that it ruins your QSO rate. Of course, all of those callers can ruin your QSO rate as well. Another classic one is DX lectures on don't call while I am working a station and then proceeds W6 59, now W4 59. The W6 59, now the other W6 is understandable. Both of those scenarios give rise to constant calling unfortunately. The E30 yesterday actually worked a couple of stations that I heard almost on his own frequency which doesn't help. Sadly, I think it was an E30 pile, E30 called someone and he didn't respond. E30 called again. Someone said something like Fred send your report and Fred dutifully sent his report. Another QSO in the log. Years ago I had heard that done on 2M several times. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 12:48 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report Much of the time it is a simple mistake. I did it to the E30 tonight and I am trying to be very careful. I changed bands and came back and the split was cancelled. I was that Lid. Usually a simple up up is fine but the cops have to go off on rant. Then I hear up, I immediately look to make sure split is on and the b vfo is in the pile. Many people simply do no listen or are chasing DX on CW when they have very little comprehension of CW and are lucky to send their call and be able to understand it when called. The new disturbing trend I have seen is that nobody listens or cares what the DX asks for on Phone or CW. The Dx calls for the W6 and W1 N3 K4 PY2 etc all continue to call and call and call attempting to cover up or bulldoze the station the DX wants to steal that contact. I have watched my P3 where the station who the DX wants to work was pretty clean and then 10 people show up on that frequency. This was a behavior that used to be carried out generally by a country in Europe in the 80's. Apparently it has now caught on all over. This behavior is wrecking the rate that the DX could be going as he has to ask for fills 2 or 3 or more times. Mike W0MU On 3/14/2015 9:04 PM, Tom WA2BCK wrote: Glenn, Your summary was wonderful and loaded with excellent advice. I often wonder why stations persist in calling on the DX stations transmit frequency. Surely by now, the entire ham radio community must realize that DXpeditions operate up or down and usually do not answer calls on their own transmit frequency. It continually amazes me how many times people call on the DX stations transmit frequency. It is so frustrating! I don't know the appropriate solution but I would like to broadcast to the entire ham radio community to listen when the operator says UP. Thanks for allowing me to blow off steam! Tom WA2BCK -Original Message- From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 4:39 PM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: What IS troubling about this report from one of the K1N ops is there is nothing new here.all of his dozen plus points is/ae SO fundamental to anyone chasing DX...terrible operating habits or approaches by the majority of the DX chasers, obviously... I did work K1N with QRP power on 80, 20 and 15 so feel fortunate to squeak in, so to speak...72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV From Glen W0GJ operating at K1N (as reported in the “Gray Line Report” of the Twin Cities ARC: GOOD ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE !Feedback and Lessons I learn a lot from every DXpedition I’ve ever been on. I’ve put together a summary of my two weeks of operation from Navassa. I’m sure all of my teammates will concur with what I’ve observed and learned. European stations complained a lot for the “short time” we worked Europe. QUITE THE CONTRARY This is a MOST interesting point of discussion! If you look at the times in our logs, we spent MORE time working Europe than working North America. Our Club Log statistics, however, show that North America had 58% of the contacts, Europe 32% and Asia 6%. WHY, then, if MORE time was spent working Europe, was Europe about half the number of North American contacts??? Simple answer: RATE. Period. When you listened to us working North America, we could cruise right along at 300-350 Qs/hour, or more! I often saw the “rate meter” hanging around 500-600 Qs/hour. (I heard that someone on the team was clocked at 1,200 Qs/hour….. on 160m) When working Europe, we would be extremely lucky to see rates of 100 Qs/hour. Euro-pean signals are as strong, if not stronger than North American signals, in the Caribbean. The west
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
You're right. I forget which one did it but I think was E30 calling up 5 to 15 and 9Q was at 15 up. Still in band but causing QRM. The 9Q and 7Q have kept their pileups fairly close to their own frequency. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Doug Scribner Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:26 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report Sometimes you don't want to follow the DX instructions... Yesterday E30FB was on 18.155, listening up 5 to 15, which ends up being out of band. That didn't stop lots calling above 18.168 K1ZO - Original Message - From: Larry lkn...@nc.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:10 AM Subject: Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report Sometimes the DXpedition is its own worst enemy. If they ask for W6 and then relent after a couple tries to work the W6 and then works someone else sends the message is you guys can bulldoze me so keep calling. Many of the later DXpeditions have been much better at this and more persistent in working the station they were calling. The problem of persisting to work they station is that it ruins your QSO rate. Of course, all of those callers can ruin your QSO rate as well. Another classic one is DX lectures on don't call while I am working a station and then proceeds W6 59, now W4 59. The W6 59, now the other W6 is understandable. Both of those scenarios give rise to constant calling unfortunately. The E30 yesterday actually worked a couple of stations that I heard almost on his own frequency which doesn't help. Sadly, I think it was an E30 pile, E30 called someone and he didn't respond. E30 called again. Someone said something like Fred send your report and Fred dutifully sent his report. Another QSO in the log. Years ago I had heard that done on 2M several times. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 12:48 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report Much of the time it is a simple mistake. I did it to the E30 tonight and I am trying to be very careful. I changed bands and came back and the split was cancelled. I was that Lid. Usually a simple up up is fine but the cops have to go off on rant. Then I hear up, I immediately look to make sure split is on and the b vfo is in the pile. Many people simply do no listen or are chasing DX on CW when they have very little comprehension of CW and are lucky to send their call and be able to understand it when called. The new disturbing trend I have seen is that nobody listens or cares what the DX asks for on Phone or CW. The Dx calls for the W6 and W1 N3 K4 PY2 etc all continue to call and call and call attempting to cover up or bulldoze the station the DX wants to steal that contact. I have watched my P3 where the station who the DX wants to work was pretty clean and then 10 people show up on that frequency. This was a behavior that used to be carried out generally by a country in Europe in the 80's. Apparently it has now caught on all over. This behavior is wrecking the rate that the DX could be going as he has to ask for fills 2 or 3 or more times. Mike W0MU On 3/14/2015 9:04 PM, Tom WA2BCK wrote: Glenn, Your summary was wonderful and loaded with excellent advice. I often wonder why stations persist in calling on the DX stations transmit frequency. Surely by now, the entire ham radio community must realize that DXpeditions operate up or down and usually do not answer calls on their own transmit frequency. It continually amazes me how many times people call on the DX stations transmit frequency. It is so frustrating! I don't know the appropriate solution but I would like to broadcast to the entire ham radio community to listen when the operator says UP. Thanks for allowing me to blow off steam! Tom WA2BCK -Original Message- From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 4:39 PM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: What IS troubling about this report from one of the K1N ops is there is nothing new here.all of his dozen plus points is/ae SO fundamental to anyone chasing DX...terrible operating habits or approaches by the majority of the DX chasers, obviously... I did work K1N with QRP power on 80, 20 and 15 so feel fortunate to squeak in, so to speak...72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV From Glen W0GJ operating at K1N (as reported in the “Gray Line Report” of the Twin Cities ARC: GOOD ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE !Feedback and Lessons I learn a lot from every DXpedition I’ve ever been on. I’ve put together a summary of my two weeks of operation from Navassa. I’m sure all of my teammates will concur with what I’ve observed and learned. European stations complained a lot for the “short time” we worked Europe. QUITE THE CONTRARY This is a MOST interesting point of discussion! If you look
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
All what is said is true. Dx also should listen on his own TX frequency and when they hear a carrier QSY +-1 and let the DQRM-er QRM an unused frequency. Just a suggestion. 73 Lou KE1F On 3/15/2015 12:48 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: Much of the time it is a simple mistake. I did it to the E30 tonight and I am trying to be very careful. I changed bands and came back and the split was cancelled. I was that Lid. Usually a simple up up is fine but the cops have to go off on rant. Then I hear up, I immediately look to make sure split is on and the b vfo is in the pile. Many people simply do no listen or are chasing DX on CW when they have very little comprehension of CW and are lucky to send their call and be able to understand it when called. The new disturbing trend I have seen is that nobody listens or cares what the DX asks for on Phone or CW. The Dx calls for the W6 and W1 N3 K4 PY2 etc all continue to call and call and call attempting to cover up or bulldoze the station the DX wants to steal that contact. I have watched my P3 where the station who the DX wants to work was pretty clean and then 10 people show up on that frequency. This was a behavior that used to be carried out generally by a country in Europe in the 80's. Apparently it has now caught on all over. This behavior is wrecking the rate that the DX could be going as he has to ask for fills 2 or 3 or more times. Mike W0MU On 3/14/2015 9:04 PM, Tom WA2BCK wrote: Glenn, Your summary was wonderful and loaded with excellent advice. I often wonder why stations persist in calling on the DX stations transmit frequency. Surely by now, the entire ham radio community must realize that DXpeditions operate up or down and usually do not answer calls on their own transmit frequency. It continually amazes me how many times people call on the DX stations transmit frequency. It is so frustrating! I don't know the appropriate solution but I would like to broadcast to the entire ham radio community to listen when the operator says UP. Thanks for allowing me to blow off steam! Tom WA2BCK -Original Message- From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 4:39 PM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: What IS troubling about this report from one of the K1N ops is there is nothing new here.all of his dozen plus points is/ae SO fundamental to anyone chasing DX...terrible operating habits or approaches by the majority of the DX chasers, obviously... I did work K1N with QRP power on 80, 20 and 15 so feel fortunate to squeak in, so to speak...72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV From Glen W0GJ operating at K1N (as reported in the “Gray Line Report” of the Twin Cities ARC: GOOD ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE !Feedback and Lessons I learn a lot from every DXpedition I’ve ever been on. I’ve put together a summary of my two weeks of operation from Navassa. I’m sure all of my teammates will concur with what I’ve observed and learned. European stations complained a lot for the “short time” we worked Europe. QUITE THE CONTRARY This is a MOST interesting point of discussion! If you look at the times in our logs, we spent MORE time working Europe than working North America. Our Club Log statistics, however, show that North America had 58% of the contacts, Europe 32% and Asia 6%. WHY, then, if MORE time was spent working Europe, was Europe about half the number of North American contacts??? Simple answer: RATE. Period. When you listened to us working North America, we could cruise right along at 300-350 Qs/hour, or more! I often saw the “rate meter” hanging around 500-600 Qs/hour. (I heard that someone on the team was clocked at 1,200 Qs/hour….. on 160m) When working Europe, we would be extremely lucky to see rates of 100 Qs/hour. Euro-pean signals are as strong, if not stronger than North American signals, in the Caribbean. The west coast U.S. is much harder to work than Europe. South American signals were among the strongest! Here is a note I received after I returned home. It is from a well-known DXer in Europe: “I listened to XXX working US pile-up on 80m. Fantastic, at least 10 QSOs per minute, and when he turned to listen for Europe, the rate was only 10% of that. Same on the other bands and modes.” The problem is THROUGHPUT. Rate. Efficiency. Cooperation. Whatever you want to call it. For the time we spent working Europe, we should have MORE contacts than with North America, but that did not happen. It COULD have happened! No one more than me would like to have seen the European Qs outnumber North American Qs. For the “next one,” I have some suggestions to help DXers, including myself, and particularly DXers in Europe, to be more successful. Here is what I see are the issues: (This applies to US hams as well for more distant DX operations – N8PR)1. Not listening to the DX operator. 2. LISTEN to and LEARN the rate and rhythm
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report
All that is said in this text is correct but it doesn't go far enough. And I know it may come as a surprise to some of you but DXing is NOT the only thing in Ham Radio! The operators can control much more of the garbage than they choose to do. For example: one of the expeditions had people calling from EU when he was calling NA and they kept doing it.. he warned them twice and told them if they continued he would QRT... they did and he did. Now I know he just moved to another band but it makes an important statement to those who misbehave. I am a DXer but I do operate other modes/events etc. as well, in particular I belong to Straight Key Century Club (SKCC). K1N was operating on 14.023 I think it was but the band of lids calling them went up clear to 14.085... clear past the area SKCC operates, Past all of the digital and they were calling K1N on top of the SKCC guys, JT65 AND RTTY operators. Gentlemen this is unacceptable... causing intentional interference. Well you might say the DXpedition operators cant control where others call from... and that is BULL. If they posted their frequencies on the WEB saying we listen 1-15 up and then stick to it those wishing to work them would catch on fast enough. Finally when a particular station does not behave ignore him and publish his call on the web as a LID. Now all of us make mistakes but some of this crap is beyond reason and needs to go away Sorry if this offends someone one but we need to have just a bit more common sense on the bands. Jim Long Live Seal Team VI http://www.qsl.net/wa3mej/index.htm _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
Glenn, Your summary was wonderful and loaded with excellent advice. I often wonder why stations persist in calling on the DX stations transmit frequency. Surely by now, the entire ham radio community must realize that DXpeditions operate up or down and usually do not answer calls on their own transmit frequency. It continually amazes me how many times people call on the DX stations transmit frequency. It is so frustrating! I don't know the appropriate solution but I would like to broadcast to the entire ham radio community to listen when the operator says UP. Thanks for allowing me to blow off steam! Tom WA2BCK -Original Message- From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 4:39 PM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: What IS troubling about this report from one of the K1N ops is there is nothing new here.all of his dozen plus points is/ae SO fundamental to anyone chasing DX...terrible operating habits or approaches by the majority of the DX chasers, obviously... I did work K1N with QRP power on 80, 20 and 15 so feel fortunate to squeak in, so to speak...72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV From Glen W0GJ operating at K1N (as reported in the “Gray Line Report” of the Twin Cities ARC: GOOD ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE !Feedback and Lessons I learn a lot from every DXpedition I’ve ever been on. I’ve put together a summary of my two weeks of operation from Navassa. I’m sure all of my teammates will concur with what I’ve observed and learned. European stations complained a lot for the “short time” we worked Europe. QUITE THE CONTRARY This is a MOST interesting point of discussion! If you look at the times in our logs, we spent MORE time working Europe than working North America. Our Club Log statistics, however, show that North America had 58% of the contacts, Europe 32% and Asia 6%. WHY, then, if MORE time was spent working Europe, was Europe about half the number of North American contacts??? Simple answer: RATE. Period. When you listened to us working North America, we could cruise right along at 300-350 Qs/hour, or more! I often saw the “rate meter” hanging around 500-600 Qs/hour. (I heard that someone on the team was clocked at 1,200 Qs/hour….. on 160m) When working Europe, we would be extremely lucky to see rates of 100 Qs/hour. Euro-pean signals are as strong, if not stronger than North American signals, in the Caribbean. The west coast U.S. is much harder to work than Europe. South American signals were among the strongest! Here is a note I received after I returned home. It is from a well-known DXer in Europe: “I listened to XXX working US pile-up on 80m. Fantastic, at least 10 QSOs per minute, and when he turned to listen for Europe, the rate was only 10% of that. Same on the other bands and modes.” The problem is THROUGHPUT. Rate. Efficiency. Cooperation. Whatever you want to call it. For the time we spent working Europe, we should have MORE contacts than with North America, but that did not happen. It COULD have happened! No one more than me would like to have seen the European Qs outnumber North American Qs. For the “next one,” I have some suggestions to help DXers, including myself, and particularly DXers in Europe, to be more successful. Here is what I see are the issues: (This applies to US hams as well for more distant DX operations – N8PR)1. Not listening to the DX operator. 2. LISTEN to and LEARN the rate and rhythm of the operator. 3. LISTEN to WHERE the operator is listening, and to his PATTERN of moving his VFO. You MUST KNOW where he will listen next if you expect him to hear you! How simple is that? It is part of the hunt… and the fun of DXing…. and getting rewarded! 4. Learn to use your radio (split/simplex, etc.). 5. Do NOT jump to and call on the frequency of the last station worked. The DX station will NOT hear you, because the din is total unintelligible chaos. Move UP or DOWN from that frequency, as we on our end were continuously tuning up or down after each Q. So, if one jumps onto the last-worked frequency, we will not hear you, even if you were the only one there, as we have already tuned off that frequency. 6. TURN OFF ALL SPEECH PROCESSORS AND COMPRESSION! Do NOT overdrive ALC. There is a night and day difference in listening to NA/AS and EU pileups. The horrible distortion makes it impossible to copy many, if not most European callsigns. I don’t know what it is, but I would bet that mic gain and compression controls are “firewall forward,” all the way clockwise. There were MANY loud stations that we did not work, COULD NOT WORK, simply because we could NOT understand their terribly distorted callsign. Have you ever listened to yourself in a pileup? We gave many stations a “19” signal report. Very loud, but extremely unintelligible! You want to have IN-TELLIGABILITY, not distortion! 7. Give your call sign ONCE and ONLY ONCE! DO NOT KEEP CALLING! Call. Listen
Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
from one of the K1N ops is there is nothing new here.all of his dozen plus points is/ae SO fundamental to anyone chasing DX...terrible operating habits or approaches by the majority of the DX chasers, obviously... I did work K1N with QRP power on 80, 20 and 15 so feel fortunate to squeak in, so to speak...72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV From Glen W0GJ operating at K1N (as reported in the “Gray Line Report” of the Twin Cities ARC: GOOD ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE !Feedback and Lessons I learn a lot from every DXpedition I’ve ever been on. I’ve put together a summary of my two weeks of operation from Navassa. I’m sure all of my teammates will concur with what I’ve observed and learned. European stations complained a lot for the “short time” we worked Europe. QUITE THE CONTRARY This is a MOST interesting point of discussion! If you look at the times in our logs, we spent MORE time working Europe than working North America. Our Club Log statistics, however, show that North America had 58% of the contacts, Europe 32% and Asia 6%. WHY, then, if MORE time was spent working Europe, was Europe about half the number of North American contacts??? Simple answer: RATE. Period. When you listened to us working North America, we could cruise right along at 300-350 Qs/hour, or more! I often saw the “rate meter” hanging around 500-600 Qs/hour. (I heard that someone on the team was clocked at 1,200 Qs/hour….. on 160m) When working Europe, we would be extremely lucky to see rates of 100 Qs/hour. Euro-pean signals are as strong, if not stronger than North American signals, in the Caribbean. The west coast U.S. is much harder to work than Europe. South American signals were among the strongest! Here is a note I received after I returned home. It is from a well-known DXer in Europe: “I listened to XXX working US pile-up on 80m. Fantastic, at least 10 QSOs per minute, and when he turned to listen for Europe, the rate was only 10% of that. Same on the other bands and modes.” The problem is THROUGHPUT. Rate. Efficiency. Cooperation. Whatever you want to call it. For the time we spent working Europe, we should have MORE contacts than with North America, but that did not happen. It COULD have happened! No one more than me would like to have seen the European Qs outnumber North American Qs. For the “next one,” I have some suggestions to help DXers, including myself, and particularly DXers in Europe, to be more successful. Here is what I see are the issues: (This applies to US hams as well for more distant DX operations – N8PR)1. Not listening to the DX operator. 2. LISTEN to and LEARN the rate and rhythm of the operator. 3. LISTEN to WHERE the operator is listening, and to his PATTERN of moving his VFO. You MUST KNOW where he will listen next if you expect him to hear you! How simple is that? It is part of the hunt… and the fun of DXing…. and getting rewarded! 4. Learn to use your radio (split/simplex, etc.). 5. Do NOT jump to and call on the frequency of the last station worked. The DX station will NOT hear you, because the din is total unintelligible chaos. Move UP or DOWN from that frequency, as we on our end were continuously tuning up or down after each Q. So, if one jumps onto the last-worked frequency, we will not hear you, even if you were the only one there, as we have already tuned off that frequency. 6. TURN OFF ALL SPEECH PROCESSORS AND COMPRESSION! Do NOT overdrive ALC. There is a night and day difference in listening to NA/AS and EU pileups. The horrible distortion makes it impossible to copy many, if not most European callsigns. I don’t know what it is, but I would bet that mic gain and compression controls are “firewall forward,” all the way clockwise. There were MANY loud stations that we did not work, COULD NOT WORK, simply because we could NOT understand their terribly distorted callsign. Have you ever listened to yourself in a pileup? We gave many stations a “19” signal report. Very loud, but extremely unintelligible! You want to have IN-TELLIGABILITY, not distortion! 7. Give your call sign ONCE and ONLY ONCE! DO NOT KEEP CALLING! Call. Listen. Call again, if needed. Listen. Listen. We would tune on by those who did not stop calling. We are looking for RATE and getting stations into the log. You should be, too!!! 8. If the DX station comes back with your call-sign, DO NOT REPEAT YOUR CALLSIGN, AS WE ALREADY KNOW IT, or we would not have answered you. Many stations (in all modes) would repeat their callsign two, three and even four times or more! This was so frustrating at times, that we would just move on to the next station. We ONLY want to hear “5NN” or “59” from you. Anything else is a total waste of time. Let me repeat, if we come back with YOUR call sign, DO NOT REPEAT it back to us! (Did I repeat myself?. forgive me!) It CHEATS others out of a chance to get into the log. Only repeat your call sign if it needs correction, and then let us know it is a correction.
Re: Topband: What IS troubling about this report....
Much of the time it is a simple mistake. I did it to the E30 tonight and I am trying to be very careful. I changed bands and came back and the split was cancelled. I was that Lid. Usually a simple up up is fine but the cops have to go off on rant. Then I hear up, I immediately look to make sure split is on and the b vfo is in the pile. Many people simply do no listen or are chasing DX on CW when they have very little comprehension of CW and are lucky to send their call and be able to understand it when called. The new disturbing trend I have seen is that nobody listens or cares what the DX asks for on Phone or CW. The Dx calls for the W6 and W1 N3 K4 PY2 etc all continue to call and call and call attempting to cover up or bulldoze the station the DX wants to steal that contact. I have watched my P3 where the station who the DX wants to work was pretty clean and then 10 people show up on that frequency. This was a behavior that used to be carried out generally by a country in Europe in the 80's. Apparently it has now caught on all over. This behavior is wrecking the rate that the DX could be going as he has to ask for fills 2 or 3 or more times. Mike W0MU On 3/14/2015 9:04 PM, Tom WA2BCK wrote: Glenn, Your summary was wonderful and loaded with excellent advice. I often wonder why stations persist in calling on the DX stations transmit frequency. Surely by now, the entire ham radio community must realize that DXpeditions operate up or down and usually do not answer calls on their own transmit frequency. It continually amazes me how many times people call on the DX stations transmit frequency. It is so frustrating! I don't know the appropriate solution but I would like to broadcast to the entire ham radio community to listen when the operator says UP. Thanks for allowing me to blow off steam! Tom WA2BCK -Original Message- From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 4:39 PM To: Top Band Contesting Subject: Topband: What IS troubling about this report from one of the K1N ops is there is nothing new here.all of his dozen plus points is/ae SO fundamental to anyone chasing DX...terrible operating habits or approaches by the majority of the DX chasers, obviously... I did work K1N with QRP power on 80, 20 and 15 so feel fortunate to squeak in, so to speak...72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV From Glen W0GJ operating at K1N (as reported in the “Gray Line Report” of the Twin Cities ARC: GOOD ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE !Feedback and Lessons I learn a lot from every DXpedition I’ve ever been on. I’ve put together a summary of my two weeks of operation from Navassa. I’m sure all of my teammates will concur with what I’ve observed and learned. European stations complained a lot for the “short time” we worked Europe. QUITE THE CONTRARY This is a MOST interesting point of discussion! If you look at the times in our logs, we spent MORE time working Europe than working North America. Our Club Log statistics, however, show that North America had 58% of the contacts, Europe 32% and Asia 6%. WHY, then, if MORE time was spent working Europe, was Europe about half the number of North American contacts??? Simple answer: RATE. Period. When you listened to us working North America, we could cruise right along at 300-350 Qs/hour, or more! I often saw the “rate meter” hanging around 500-600 Qs/hour. (I heard that someone on the team was clocked at 1,200 Qs/hour….. on 160m) When working Europe, we would be extremely lucky to see rates of 100 Qs/hour. Euro-pean signals are as strong, if not stronger than North American signals, in the Caribbean. The west coast U.S. is much harder to work than Europe. South American signals were among the strongest! Here is a note I received after I returned home. It is from a well-known DXer in Europe: “I listened to XXX working US pile-up on 80m. Fantastic, at least 10 QSOs per minute, and when he turned to listen for Europe, the rate was only 10% of that. Same on the other bands and modes.” The problem is THROUGHPUT. Rate. Efficiency. Cooperation. Whatever you want to call it. For the time we spent working Europe, we should have MORE contacts than with North America, but that did not happen. It COULD have happened! No one more than me would like to have seen the European Qs outnumber North American Qs. For the “next one,” I have some suggestions to help DXers, including myself, and particularly DXers in Europe, to be more successful. Here is what I see are the issues: (This applies to US hams as well for more distant DX operations – N8PR)1. Not listening to the DX operator. 2. LISTEN to and LEARN the rate and rhythm of the operator. 3. LISTEN to WHERE the operator is listening, and to his PATTERN of moving his VFO. You MUST KNOW where he will listen next if you expect him to hear you! How simple is that? It is part of the hunt… and the fun of DXing
