Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
The topic of fewer sporadic-E openings since 2011 and their geographical distribution (Europe has far more Es than North America) will be reviewed in the August, 2016 QST WA50 column. - Jon N0JK "Speaking of the last minimum, I noticed E skip on 50 MHZ was better here than in the last few seasons. I worked a JA in 2010 and 2011 but have not heard one since, despite diligent listening. Far fewer EU openings as well for me. I don't know if this is normal or a fluke, as I started on 6M in 2009. Sorry about the VHF comment on the Topband Reflector." 73 Charlie N8RR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
Bob - I couldn't agree morelisten, call CQ every so often (use RBN to see how you're "doing"), repeat.take notes, etc. However, I'll add a slightly slant/entreaty hereI've been on 160 and 80 in the early morning hours (1000Z to 1300Z) for days (3 to 5) at a time (most recently, about three weeks ago) listening, calling CQ, listening, watching the ON4KST reflector to see who's on and trying to make Qs...nary one other station heard. Now, one "note" - I am at QRP to just over QRP (10 watts) and I don't employ a BOG or Beveridge or other rx-only antenna BUTI do enjoy a relatively quiet home location in s/w Utah where S levels are around S3 or so..still no calls, no hearing CQs, nada. In short, I become "bummed" somewhat when I see RBN reports from stations in WA, CA, MN, AZ and NV of 20, 14, 16 etc., as I call CQ, knowing FULL well there have to be others "on the band." I wish others wud listen on top band and 80 --- if they hear some "less than exotic call sign calling CQ," give the guy/gal a call, send an RST and move on! I feel like - NO, I believe firmly - there is a "snooty view" by those ops with THE ultimate antenna farms (tx and rcv) that takes over when they get on 160 or 80 - they light the filaments of their amps, ensure they are selecting the"correct" rx array "heading," and listen "vehemently" for any signs of a VK, a JA, a "whatever" call sign...as long as it isn't aW/K...! wish others on 160/80 wud invest one minute to answer a CQ, send the RST and move on. it's OK to work a fella W/K ham on top band - it won't sully you image amongst the "top band elite." I KNOW I do "well" in the CQ, ARRL and Stew events - so, albeit a QRP to 10 watt limitation, I know it's not my "system"! I hope some of youz will start listening a little and take opportunities to answer CQs on top band, during non-contesting times..understanding there are us "peanut whistle" stations out there who, simply, enjoy hearing a reply to our CQs OR hope to hear others calling CQ, sans "CQ DX"! 71.5/72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV Monday, June 06, 2016 2:58 AM To: jkaufm...@alum.mit.edu ; 'Carl Luetzelschwab' ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min ...SNIP... I believe we still have so much to learn on this subject. That is why nothing beats listening no matter what the numbers say. 73 and gud DX. Bob K3UL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
-Original Message- From: Bob Garrett Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 2:58 AM To: jkaufm...@alum.mit.edu ; 'Carl Luetzelschwab' ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min ...SNIP... I believe we still have so much to learn on this subject. That is why nothing beats listening no matter what the numbers say. 73 and gud DX. Bob K3UL = I am certainly guilty of neglecting 'The Band' during the northern hemisphere summers. Near constant QRN and short nights (for sleeping) are the two main reasons I have traditionally not operated TB between the equinoxes. This year I have made a concerted effort to do spot checks on the band, particularly the early morning hours when QRN is the lowest. However, this time frame allows a possibility of contacts only to the Pacific region. I truly believe that Bob's statement above re listening is the true clue to fully utilizing the fickle offerings of 160 Meters. As an example, this past week, the local morning of June 2, I CQed to the west, alternately at 225, 270 & 315 degrees. I began at 1100 Z and continued until my sunrise at ~1200 Z. I did not receive any responses to my CQ's; no contacts were logged. QRN level was quite low, so I can only presume there were few if any stations in the targeted areas of South Pacific Islands, ZL, VK, JA, UA0 and SE Asia on the air during this time period. I believe 'The Band' was WIDE OPEN to at least a portion of VK, if not other areas. Apparently no stations were listening at that time. The RBN system provides a good insight into the propagation available. Besides western US RBN station reports, I noted the following. de DX Freq SNR Time -- Date _ ___ __ VK4CT N5IA 1824.5 19 dB 1103 -- 2 Jun VK4CT N5IA 1824.5 20 dB 1115 -- 2 Jun VK4CT N5IA 1824.5 27 dB 1131 -- 2 Jun VK4CT N5IA 1824.5 25 dB 1146 -- 2 Jun The signal reports also show the signal enhancement taking place as sunrise approached my location. 73, and GL to everyone who tries northern hemisphere, summer time operations on TB. de Milt, N5IA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
Hello John et al, The 1987 cycle was truly amazing with similar conditions here in PA. JA opening most mornings and EU nights like the 20 meter band. Unlike W1FV, I only heard 9M2AX a few times and worked him once on January 1, 1989. That night, he was louder than the EU stations he was working. Great fun for sure. Like Dave said, the 2008 and 2009 years were very good too. I believe we still have so much to learn on this subject. That is why nothing beats listening no matter what the numbers say. 73 and gud DX. Bob K3UL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
I fully agree what Dave says about propagation difference between solar minimum and maximum. Living here in North clearly shows this fact. At the time of solar maximum there has been no chances to work using paths over the pole area, Qs to W6 (330 degr.)and over to T2, C2, FW (30degr.) have been impossible for me. In propagation to Southwards like VP8, Heard and Amsterdam there has been no problem. Waiting with great interest coming years on Topband and specially Pacific area DX-peditions starting with KH1 next year. 73 Ilmo, OH2BO -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] Puolesta David Raymond Lähetetty: 6. kesäkuutata 2016 5:39 Vastaanottaja: topband@contesting.com Aihe: Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min I've only been active on Topband since 1987 but nothing has beat the 2008 and 2009 seasons when NA topbanders were easily working Zones 17, 18, and 19 both morning and night. I remember commenting to some of the newer guys (who had been thinking it was always like that) telling them it was a rarity. And, indeed, it has been as it hasn't happened since. We'll see if it repeats itself in the next downswing. 73. . . Dave, W0FLS > > Carl K9LA: " But in my opinion (and in the opinion of others) the > deep and long solar minimum between Cycles 23 and 24 (2006-2010) > didn't live up to this axiom compared to the not-so-deep and > not-so-long solar minimum between Cycles 22 and 23 (1995-1997). It > suggests that all solar minimums aren't the same." > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
There appear to be different propagation patterns during various sunspot cycles. From my article in CQ Magazine June 1980: http://www.k3bu.us/propagation.htm It is known that with increased sunspot activity the thickness of the atmosphere increases. (This caused Skylab to come down prematurely). This also increases the height of the propagating layers and therefore increases the height and length of the "arches", it allows us to span longer distances and extends propagation later into the night. We have been told that during peaks of solar activity the lower frequency bands are very poor, mainly because of attenuation of the D layer of the ionosphere. On the contrary, the propagation on the low bands has been better than what we experienced during the sunspot minima. The 40m. band has longer openings to remote areas of the world. Eighty meters is the same; we are hearing Europeans around 6 p.m. local time. During the 160m. CQ Contest I was hearing G stations for about 8 hours during the night. It appears again that the refracting layers are higher, allowing us to work longer distances with stronger signal levels. It appears then that with higher sunspot activity, the average height of the media increases, refraction of higher frequencies improves, allowing us to work further and increase the number of useful frequencies for communication. < Area under sunspot cycle count curve would be representative of the amount of Sun's energy emission over the cycle. Cycles with high activity would have "fatter" curve, representing more intense energy hitting the Earth, atmosphere and ionosphere heights increase, (atmosphere gases expand) and propagation layers increase height. The result is that sunspot minima between "fat" more intense cycles are different, they are shorter and with layers at higher altitudes. Minima between or after low cycles are longer and layers are at lower heights, changing propagation paths, shorter openings. There is also hysteresis - flywheel effect where the effects are shifted, delayed as we see in shift in Earth temperatures (coldest days are not the shortest days, but shifted.) To summarize, it appears that best top band propagation happens during sunspot minima at high sunspot activity cycles. Other variables, layers, absorption, Earth angles make top band propagation so unpredictable, but there is a pattern to it. "You gotta be there when it happens!" This has effect on weather patterns too, where low sunspot cycles cause atmosphere (gas) to shrink, becomes more dense and weather patterns change, hurricanes, tornadoes etc. Global whatever, not our SUVs. I hope K9LA gives me credit for this explanation and record, unlike denying my pointing out high angle propagation on top band. 73 Yuri Blanarovich, VE3BMV, K3BU.us topbanding since 1958 On Sun, Jun 05, 2016 at 07:21 PM, John Kaufmann wrote: > (Note: disregard my earlier incomplete post) Carl K9LA: " But in my opinion (and in the opinion of others) the deep and long solar minimum between Cycles 23 and 24 (2006-2010) didn't live up to this axiom compared to the not-so-deep and not-so-long solar minimum between Cycles 22 and 23 (1995-1997). It suggests that all solar minimums aren't the same." I will continue the comparison by saying that the solar minimum in the mid-1980's topped that of the following two decades in terms of low band propagation. Top Band activity in the 1980's was nothing like it is today, but despite that I observed many openings into Europe that sounded like a 20m opening. Propagation to mid-eastern and central Asia occurred pretty regularly. I remember hearing 9M2AX on long path much louder than most of the Europeans he was working. JA's were almost a daily occurrence into W1 during January of 1987. I assumed that this was normal propagation for 160 but I have never observed anything consistently as good as it was in the 1980's. Anyone else found this to be true? What was different about the solar minimum in that decade? 73, John W1FV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
I've only been active on Topband since 1987 but nothing has beat the 2008 and 2009 seasons when NA topbanders were easily working Zones 17, 18, and 19 both morning and night. I remember commenting to some of the newer guys (who had been thinking it was always like that) telling them it was a rarity. And, indeed, it has been as it hasn't happened since. We'll see if it repeats itself in the next downswing. 73. . . Dave, W0FLS Carl K9LA: " But in my opinion (and in the opinion of others) the deep and long solar minimum between Cycles 23 and 24 (2006-2010) didn't live up to this axiom compared to the not-so-deep and not-so-long solar minimum between Cycles 22 and 23 (1995-1997). It suggests that all solar minimums aren't the same." _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
JC, My expectation is the same as yours, cycle 25 should be better than 24 for the low bands. The basis for my expectation is I am putting up better 160M antennas this summer and I am an optimist :-) Bob K6UJ On 6/5/16 6:41 PM, JC wrote: "I assumed that this was normal propagation for 160 but I have never observed anything consistently as good as it was in the 1980's. Anyone else found this to be true? What was different about the solar minimum in that decade?" John. I was in Brazil that time and I remember working several US station using 100w and a low dipole during CQWW in May. I have few observations on my records from last cycle hard to compare. Last solar minimum we have unprecedented opening throughout north pole. Several stations on Z18 was crossing the pole on 160m every night. I remember one station on zone 18 working all US states in less than 30 days. Long path, at least from Florida was unique I could work XU7ACY almost every morning from October to March, but that was in 2010 , same long path propagation on 2011. Zip , nada after 012. 2007, 2008 and 2007 where in the top 20 most spotless days list of last 150 years. http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Sunspotless_days.JPG My expectation is that cycle 25 should better than 24 for low bands. But just my expectation without scientific reasons. 73's JC N4IS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
Carl and John, your comments about the last cycle bottom not being as good as the previous cycle bottoms were very interesting. I missed the previous cycles you mentioned. My activity started here in Oct 2008 and the first two or three seasons seemed fantastic compared to later years. I am looking forward to the next solar minimum and hopefully the conditions will at least be as good as the during the last one. If they are better, that would be fantastic. Hopefully they won't be worse. Speaking of the last minimum, I noticed E skip on 50 MHZ was better here than in the last few seasons. I worked a JA in 2010 and 2011 but have not heard one since, despite diligent listening. Far fewer EU openings as well for me. I don't know if this is normal or a fluke, as I started on 6M in 2009. Sorry about the VHF comment on the Topband Reflector. 73 Charlie N8RR > Carl K9LA: " But in my opinion (and in the opinion of others) the deep and > long solar minimum between Cycles 23 and 24 (2006-2010) didn't live up to > this axiom compared to the not-so-deep and not-so-long solar minimum between > Cycles 22 and 23 (1995-1997). It suggests that all solar minimums aren't the > same." > > I will continue the comparison by saying that the solar minimum in the > mid-1980's topped that of the following two decades in terms of low band > propagation. Top Band activity in the 1980's was nothing like it is today, > but despite that I observed many openings into Europe that sounded like a > 20m opening. Propagation to mid-eastern and central Asia occurred pretty > regularly. I remember hearing 9M2AX on long path much louder than most of > the Europeans he was working. JA's were almost a daily occurrence into W1 > during January of 1987. > > I assumed that this was normal propagation for 160 but I have never observed > anything consistently as good as it was in the 1980's. Anyone else found > this to be true? What was different about the solar minimum in that decade? > > 73, John W1FV > > > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
"I assumed that this was normal propagation for 160 but I have never observed anything consistently as good as it was in the 1980's. Anyone else found this to be true? What was different about the solar minimum in that decade?" John. I was in Brazil that time and I remember working several US station using 100w and a low dipole during CQWW in May. I have few observations on my records from last cycle hard to compare. Last solar minimum we have unprecedented opening throughout north pole. Several stations on Z18 was crossing the pole on 160m every night. I remember one station on zone 18 working all US states in less than 30 days. Long path, at least from Florida was unique I could work XU7ACY almost every morning from October to March, but that was in 2010 , same long path propagation on 2011. Zip , nada after 012. 2007, 2008 and 2007 where in the top 20 most spotless days list of last 150 years. http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Sunspotless_days.JPG My expectation is that cycle 25 should better than 24 for low bands. But just my expectation without scientific reasons. 73's JC N4IS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
(Note: disregard my earlier incomplete post) Carl K9LA: " But in my opinion (and in the opinion of others) the deep and long solar minimum between Cycles 23 and 24 (2006-2010) didn't live up to this axiom compared to the not-so-deep and not-so-long solar minimum between Cycles 22 and 23 (1995-1997). It suggests that all solar minimums aren't the same." I will continue the comparison by saying that the solar minimum in the mid-1980's topped that of the following two decades in terms of low band propagation. Top Band activity in the 1980's was nothing like it is today, but despite that I observed many openings into Europe that sounded like a 20m opening. Propagation to mid-eastern and central Asia occurred pretty regularly. I remember hearing 9M2AX on long path much louder than most of the Europeans he was working. JA's were almost a daily occurrence into W1 during January of 1987. I assumed that this was normal propagation for 160 but I have never observed anything consistently as good as it was in the 1980's. Anyone else found this to be true? What was different about the solar minimum in that decade? 73, John W1FV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: low band propagation at solar min
> As for low band propagation being better at solar min, I grew up believing in this axiom. But in my opinion (and in the opinion of others) the deep and long solar minimum between Cycles 23 and 24 (2006-2010) didn't live up to this axiom compared to the not-so-deep and not-so-long solar minimum between Cycles 22 and 23 (1995-1997). It suggests that all solar minimums aren't the same. Perhaps a deep and long solar minimum is not good for the low bands (and there is a physical reason for this). Again, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
