Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals
Just double the length of the phasing lines and then they will reach. Herb, KV4FZ On 11/17/2012 10:42 PM, DALE LONG wrote: Joe...I was wrong in my post. My verticals are 1/2 wave apart on 80m, which is the same as 1/4 wave on 160. After writing my message, I went back and added the 66' for clarity, and should have been 132' You are correct, using RG8X with velocity factor of .78, the phasing lines are about 53.5' and there are two of them, making them a too short to reach the 132' I really DO have 80m verticals that are 1/2 wave apart. (incidentally I share the radial fields with the 160m antennas which are 1/4 wave apart) So the question remains, how to properly feed phased verticals that are physically 1/2 wave apart 73 Dale From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals 1. for 80m phased verticals that are 1/2 wave apart (66 feet), That is 1/4 wave separation - not half-wave. One half wave on 80 is roughly 139 feet (984/3.55/2 = 138.6 feet). Since you are using 1/4 wave spacing and a PVS-2 (which is a quadrature device if I remember correctly), two /14 wave cables (about 54' each when the velocity factor for foam is included) should *easily* reach the midpoint of the array. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/17/2012 6:56 PM, DALE LONG wrote: Until recently, I had phased verticals on both 80m and 160m and lots of beverages. (this was in a woods, and not my property) Then the loggers came and destroyed all. In addition to the antennas, the phasing lines were torn up, and broken and needed replacement. For 160m I use the Christman method with .71 and .84 wavelength lines. For 80m I use a Comtek PVS-2 controller. In replacing the 80m phasing lines today I made a stupid mistake, I dont know what I was thinking, but I carefully measured and soldered two identical 1/4 wave lengths of new coax. I tested them on my AIM 4170 and they were nearly identical, exactly on the design frequency. Then I went to install them and guess what...of course they were too short. I have worked with phased verticals before and I know that you often need to use 3/4 wave phasing lines, but I was too intent on measuring and soldering and making the repairs. So now I have two questions. 1. for 80m phased verticals that are 1/2 wave apart (66 feet), what will be the pattern? It's not the same as 1/4 wave spacing, so what really is happening? 2. what is the best length of phasing line to use. Should I use 3/4 wave phasing lines? Should I avoid using 1/2 wave phasing lines? Thanks Dale - N3BNA ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals
Joe...I was wrong in my post. My verticals are 1/2 wave apart on 80m, which is the same as 1/4 wave on 160. After writing my message, I went back and added the 66' for clarity, and should have been 132' You are correct, using RG8X with velocity factor of .78, the phasing lines are about 53.5' and there are two of them, making them a too short to reach the 132' I really DO have 80m verticals that are 1/2 wave apart. (incidentally I share the radial fields with the 160m antennas which are 1/4 wave apart) So the question remains, how to properly feed phased verticals that are physically 1/2 wave apart 73 Dale From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals 1. for 80m phased verticals that are 1/2 wave apart (66 feet), That is 1/4 wave separation - not half-wave. One half wave on 80 is roughly 139 feet (984/3.55/2 = 138.6 feet). Since you are using 1/4 wave spacing and a PVS-2 (which is a quadrature device if I remember correctly), two /14 wave cables (about 54' each when the velocity factor for foam is included) should *easily* reach the midpoint of the array. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/17/2012 6:56 PM, DALE LONG wrote: Until recently, I had phased verticals on both 80m and 160m and lots of beverages. (this was in a woods, and not my property) Then the loggers came and destroyed all. In addition to the antennas, the phasing lines were torn up, and broken and needed replacement. For 160m I use the Christman method with .71 and .84 wavelength lines. For 80m I use a Comtek PVS-2 controller. In replacing the 80m phasing lines today I made a stupid mistake, I dont know what I was thinking, but I carefully measured and soldered two identical 1/4 wave lengths of new coax. I tested them on my AIM 4170 and they were nearly identical, exactly on the design frequency. Then I went to install them and guess what...of course they were too short. I have worked with phased verticals before and I know that you often need to use 3/4 wave phasing lines, but I was too intent on measuring and soldering and making the repairs. So now I have two questions. 1. for 80m phased verticals that are 1/2 wave apart (66 feet), what will be the pattern? It's not the same as 1/4 wave spacing, so what really is happening? 2. what is the best length of phasing line to use. Should I use 3/4 wave phasing lines? Should I avoid using 1/2 wave phasing lines? Thanks Dale - N3BNA ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals
Joe...I was wrong in my post. My verticals are 1/2 wave apart on 80m, That changes things ... So the question remains, how to properly feed phased verticals that are physically 1/2 wave apart Seems to me you have two options ... feed them in phase which provides a bidirectional pattern *broadside* or feed them out of phase which provides a bidirectional pattern *endfire*. With the in/out of phase feed, I would use 1/2 wave lines from the verticals to the phasing unit. The phasing unit would consist of your two 1/4 wave lines with a half wave line in series with one of the two verticals - in line for endfire and bypassed for broadside. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/17/2012 9:42 PM, DALE LONG wrote: Joe...I was wrong in my post. My verticals are 1/2 wave apart on 80m, which is the same as 1/4 wave on 160. After writing my message, I went back and added the 66' for clarity, and should have been 132' You are correct, using RG8X with velocity factor of .78, the phasing lines are about 53.5' and there are two of them, making them a too short to reach the 132' I really DO have 80m verticals that are 1/2 wave apart. (incidentally I share the radial fields with the 160m antennas which are 1/4 wave apart) So the question remains, how to properly feed phased verticals that are physically 1/2 wave apart 73 Dale From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals 1. for 80m phased verticals that are 1/2 wave apart (66 feet), That is 1/4 wave separation - not half-wave. One half wave on 80 is roughly 139 feet (984/3.55/2 = 138.6 feet). Since you are using 1/4 wave spacing and a PVS-2 (which is a quadrature device if I remember correctly), two /14 wave cables (about 54' each when the velocity factor for foam is included) should *easily* reach the midpoint of the array. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/17/2012 6:56 PM, DALE LONG wrote: Until recently, I had phased verticals on both 80m and 160m and lots of beverages. (this was in a woods, and not my property) Then the loggers came and destroyed all. In addition to the antennas, the phasing lines were torn up, and broken and needed replacement. For 160m I use the Christman method with .71 and .84 wavelength lines. For 80m I use a Comtek PVS-2 controller. In replacing the 80m phasing lines today I made a stupid mistake, I dont know what I was thinking, but I carefully measured and soldered two identical 1/4 wave lengths of new coax. I tested them on my AIM 4170 and they were nearly identical, exactly on the design frequency. Then I went to install them and guess what...of course they were too short. I have worked with phased verticals before and I know that you often need to use 3/4 wave phasing lines, but I was too intent on measuring and soldering and making the repairs. So now I have two questions. 1. for 80m phased verticals that are 1/2 wave apart (66 feet), what will be the pattern? It's not the same as 1/4 wave spacing, so what really is happening? 2. what is the best length of phasing line to use. Should I use 3/4 wave phasing lines? Should I avoid using 1/2 wave phasing lines? Thanks Dale - N3BNA ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals
This looks like the Engineering Phasing report mentioned. I have an older version, this one seems to be reformatted. Give it a try. http://www.classicinternational.eu/_clientfiles/info_extra/hygainphasedverticals.pdf' yui-spellcheck?http://www.classicinternational.eu/_clientfiles/info_extra/hygainphasedverticals.pdf;http://www.classicinternational.eu/_clientfiles/info_extra/hygainphasedverticals.pdf Arne N7KA ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
