Re: Topband: raised radials
You ever wonder why a few on here are so much louder than their competition with similar installations when 1-2 keep trying to make us believe it has nothing to do with the radials beyond a small number? IF he is correct then why the big difference? Anybody care to offer a guess? Or the fellow on a city lot that knows he is 10dB below the guy a mile away out in the country with a big vertical or T with lots of long radials plus a base meshafter several years of comparisons. You dont need fancy test equipment to see that. Ever wonder why photos of elevated radial BC antennas show a base mesh and a small number of radials? And then performance tests require a reduction in power to conform to the canned 120 radials in the ground benchmark signal strength. Or due to the stations original certification with a full set of base radials that rotted away and the elevated are the replacements. Or the person on here who went from an extensive radial system to a full screen claimed a 5dB improvement but now denys the possibility. Its in the TB archives from 1998. A few seem to be in a continuous rut with impedance the only factor they seem to mention. There is a lot more than just the immediate soil under the radials that is involved when it comes to field strength many wavelengths or continents away which also affects the energy in a particular elevation angle. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie- Hee! :- ) -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:12 PM To: DAVID CUTHBERT; Carl Cc: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials That is quite an improvement. I had to have dropped the base impedance from 400 ohms to 40 ohms for it to do that. Things are often magic when we rely on feelings or emotions to measure decibels. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2634/5462 - Release Date: 12/15/12 ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
Or the person on here who went from an extensive radial system to a full screen claimed a 5dB improvement but now denys the possibility. Its in the TB archives from 1998. Carl, Please try to stop that silly disappointing long-time practice of re-writing what other people say just to start a fight. I NEVER said I didn't measure a 5 dB change, or that some system changes can't produce a 5 dB (or even a 30 dB) change when someone does something terribly wrong in a system. What I am saying is: 1.) Your claim you felt you had a ~10 dB change, based on your feelings of how much a signal must change busting a pileup, when you added some screen to a system is pretty silly. It is a test at least days apart on sky wave with no data reference at all. It is typical junk science of the worse kind. If your original ground system did not have severe issues, the imagined 10 dB would be impossible. 2.) Broadcast stations use a screen as a connection point and mechanical convenience, NOT to improve signal or effiency. The screen allows people to walk near the tower base without falling over wires, and it allows connecting boxes, fences, posts, and other things into the radials no matter where they are located near the base. They also usually use stone at the base, and weedkiller...so we can't assume everything they do is for signal reasons. If you take some time to read FCC guidelines, the screen is actually optional. If you read Lewis, Brown, and Epstein, instead of misreading Topband archives, you will see they ALSO said the screen does not when a adequate number and length of radials is present. Please stop the silly childish misrepresentations. 73 Tom ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
- Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: Carl k...@jeremy.mv.com Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials Or the person on here who went from an extensive radial system to a full screen claimed a 5dB improvement but now denys the possibility. Its in the TB archives from 1998. Carl, Please try to stop that silly disappointing long-time practice of re-writing what other people say just to start a fight. I NEVER said I didn't measure a 5 dB change, or that some system changes can't produce a 5 dB (or even a 30 dB) change when someone does something terribly wrong in a system. ** Some time spent in the archives could be an eye opener to many on here. Im far from looking for a fight as you claim, just get some things clarified. What I am saying is: 1.) Your claim you felt you had a ~10 dB change, based on your feelings of how much a signal must change busting a pileup, when you added some screen to a system is pretty silly. It is a test at least days apart on sky wave with no data reference at all. It is typical junk science of ** Thats about what Id expect from you, demeaning comments when you dont have a clue what I did. The radials only were for over a year of daily operating so I had a pretty decent feel for the bands variances. This was a decade before Topband came along. The screen went down one day and by sunset I was active again, didnt miss a beat. The group of friends I worked with on a private 222MHz repeater all commented on the improvement since I was regularly beating them in pileups and they had good vertical installations. the worse kind. If your original ground system did not have severe issues, the imagined 10 dB would be impossible. ** You are very wrong since you remain hung up on only part of the picture. 2.) Broadcast stations use a screen as a connection point and mechanical convenience, NOT to improve signal or effiency. ** Wrong again since you conveniently leave out the rest of the reason. The screen allows people to walk near the tower base without falling over wires, and it allows connecting boxes, fences, posts, and other things into the radials no matter where they are located near the base. They also usually use stone at the base, and weedkiller...so we can't assume everything they do is for signal reasons. ** Nope and that is a completely different install than what I am discussing where the close in base screen plus elevated radials is used as a necessity for mainly financial reasons. If you take some time to read FCC guidelines, the screen is actually optional. ** Ive read it and you are changing the subject again If you read Lewis, Brown, and Epstein, instead of misreading Topband archives, ** My reading suggests quite different. you will see they ALSO said the screen does not when a adequate number and length of radials is present. Please stop the silly childish misrepresentations. 73 Tom ** Stop the demeaning and subject switching/slanting whenever you get into a jam Tom. This is not Eham or QTH, there are many educated readers on here that can see right thru it Carl KM1H. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
Charlie, you are so far off the wall Im not even going to bother with a long detailed answer since it likely wont go thru.You dont have a clue what Im trying to get across so why bother. There was absolutely nothing wrong with my 40M configurations, one version wasnt up to expectations and the other was much better. By how much I dont know since the difference was marked and not worth going further. This 1/2 wave working better with radials is nothing new and has been reported by others and is used in some commercial antenna mobile installations on VHF and up. What I called a dud by my standards is likely what you call a great performer, it didnt crack pileups on the first few calls. With radials it was better but not great. Maybe the angle was too low, anyway I dont like waiting and search for the reasons why. Running super QRO is not in my playbook. The HB tuning network worked perfect either way and the only reason I disconnected the radial ring was out of curiosity since fellow ham engineers at work asked about it. Engineering requires curiosity as well as an understanding. Im not one to blindly follow the Pied Piper. It is called testing and verification, are you familiar with those concepts? The 4 el 40M yagi was installed since I wanted to work ALL countries/zones on the band as well as generate big contest scores. I wasnt satisfied with an underperformer altho at times the radial version vertical halfwave was pretty close (easily audible so maybe 3-4dB?) to the 4el on some rare occassions. The KLM was an available product and I could afford it and the tower dedicated to it, Im being condemned for that now? Your comment of antennas on tall buildings further shows your inability to seperate apples and oranges and stick to one subject.. All Ive read in this last rambling and ranting post of yours is from a seriously disturbed old man ( Im a bit older) who might have a stroke if he doesnt calm down and stop going on about something you apparently have trouble reading much less understanding. If you dont understand something ask for a clarification, dont just throw a grenade in the room. I'll go one to one with you on antennas any day of the week but first you need to understand how antennas work beyond your back yard. There was a long discussion on here led by a known BC engineer who took a lot of flack from a few who were being challenged. I enjoyed watching the constant dancing and subject shifting smoke screens by the usual. Well written engineering books give you the basics, I have had all of them for decades and reference them often but a dedicated professor that took the time to explain troublesome parts to any student was worth his weight in gold. And you dont need to keep adding the groupie addresses since it does go thru the reflector to everyone. Carl KM1H Well, Carl, before you start beating up on Tom, let me assure you that there ARE some people on this reflector. And I AM one of them, who are certainly educated and informed enough, and do antenna work professionally, as I do, to see the serious and gross errors and complete lack of knowledge and understanding that regularly are presented in your presentations on antennas and grounds here on this reflector. I expect that most of them are so appalled and taken aback, that they often just dismiss your rants out of hand, as I have, and just don't dignify them with a comment! But here lately some of your rants are so seriously in error, and in such complete disagreement with the laws of physics, electromagnetics and engineering, that I feel compelled to speak out! Let me start by telling you that I AM an electrical engineer, and I have been practicing for 45 years -and among other things, I AM an antenna engineer, and I know enough about antennas and electromagnetics to know complete BULL and SERIOUS ERRORS when I see them! And you surely have presented us with some!! Let me tell you, as an antenna engineer, that antennas and electromagnetics are based on DESIGN, MODELING, CONSTRUCTION, MEASUREMENT and TESTING - with a firm foundation in the underlying science and engineering!! You seem to be sadly lacking in this area!! One of my concerns is that some of the less-informed who read your bull in this reflector might take it seriously!! As an engineer, I can just dismiss it as BULL, based on apocrypha, hearsay and half-baked opinions -NOT on any underlying science or engineering - but others might not, - and they might expend a lot of sweat and tears and MONEY (4 40m elements a 120' -to solve a gross and serious electromagnetics error???) by following some of your SERIIOUSL FLAWED RANTS! You need to get away from your computer and keyboard and go dig into some serious antenna and electromagnetics texts!! May I recommend Antennas, by John Kraus, W8JK, of Ohio State University (McGraw- Hill 1950) SK Note: 1.0 A 1/2 wave vertical DOES NOT need an underlying ground
Re: Topband: raised radials
That is quite an improvement. I had to have dropped the base impedance from 400 ohms to 40 ohms for it to do that. Dave WX7G On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Carl k...@jeremy.mv.com wrote: A ground screen mesh extending out at least 25' from the base would reduces losses considerably since just 10-20 radials has little effect. At a prior QTH, going from 100 radials of 60-130' to spokes of 4' x 50' rabbit wire mesh on top of them made the difference between also ran and pileup busting on 160. Id call that at least 10dB in anybodys book. My soil was like beach sand altho 20 miles from the ocean; likely leftover from the iceage roll back. - Original Message - From: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD wd4...@suddenlink.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:04 PM Subject: Topband: raised radials the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to raise the effeciancy of a short vertical. i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading. can i use these raised radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it. it is impossible to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground. david/wd4kpd -- God's law is set in stone..everything else is negotiable. __**_ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2634/5459 - Release Date: 12/14/12 __**_ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
Hi, Tom Well, I also used a 40m GP with 4 elevated resonant radials about 6' above ground and I worked an awful lot of really good DX with it!! I found it to be about equal to my half-wave vertical dipole for 40m. (Center fed through a home-made 1:1 W2DU style current balun) Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:24 PM To: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to raise the effeciancy of a short vertical. Only if the original ground system is a meager system with significant loss. At my QTH on 40 meters, 4 elevated radials at 6 feet above ground were about equal to 12-15 radials in the earth. That would be like 4 radials 24 feet above earth on 160. The difference between them was the elevated radials only worked OK on one or two bands (like 40 and 15), while the buried wires were reasonably good on 160-10 meters, out of view, and protected for lightning. i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading. can i use these raised radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it. it is impossible to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground. Since the antenna is an all band antenna, I don't think I would use a resonant radial. I'd just bury as many radials as I could as long and straight as possible, and enjoy all the bands. If you had 10-20 radials 60 feet or more long, it would be tough to make any improvement on lower bands. If you use a resonant radial system, it really should be ground isolated. That complicates things. This 10-20 loss thing, at least to me, appears to be based on anecdotal unconfirmed opinions. Like deer whistles on cars. 73 Tom ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
I also have a 40M GP with 4 elevated resonant radials 6 above the ground. I will be putting up a vertical dipole for 40M center fed with a choke balun for comparison on DX and will compare with the RBN and see what I learn. Has anyone on the forum tested these two 40M antennas using the reverse beacon network ? And if so what were your results ? 73, Bob K6UJ On Dec 15, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: Hi, Tom Well, I also used a 40m GP with 4 elevated resonant radials about 6' above ground and I worked an awful lot of really good DX with it!! I found it to be about equal to my half-wave vertical dipole for 40m. (Center fed through a home-made 1:1 W2DU style current balun) Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:24 PM To: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to raise the effeciancy of a short vertical. Only if the original ground system is a meager system with significant loss. At my QTH on 40 meters, 4 elevated radials at 6 feet above ground were about equal to 12-15 radials in the earth. That would be like 4 radials 24 feet above earth on 160. The difference between them was the elevated radials only worked OK on one or two bands (like 40 and 15), while the buried wires were reasonably good on 160-10 meters, out of view, and protected for lightning. i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading. can i use these raised radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it. it is impossible to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground. Since the antenna is an all band antenna, I don't think I would use a resonant radial. I'd just bury as many radials as I could as long and straight as possible, and enjoy all the bands. If you had 10-20 radials 60 feet or more long, it would be tough to make any improvement on lower bands. If you use a resonant radial system, it really should be ground isolated. That complicates things. This 10-20 loss thing, at least to me, appears to be based on anecdotal unconfirmed opinions. Like deer whistles on cars. 73 Tom ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
Charlie, I will post my results. I had a vertical dipole up before and now am using the 40M GP. The vertical dipole seems to be the best performer for DX but what does that mean, hihi. I thought I would make a table with short path, long path etc. and switch to each antenna using the RBN. Any suggestions on other comparisons or set up ? 73, Bob K6UJ On Dec 15, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: Well, I haven't done such an elaborate test, Bob! But I'd be extremely interested in seeing your results! At present my 40 m GP is down because I needed to clear away the radials for some tree work I still have parallel 40/30 vertical dipoles center fed through a W2DU style current balun. When I had the 40m GP in place. I could do direct comparisons. I was relying mostly on signal reports from 9V1YC other Asians and ease of working him and others in south Asia on the evening south polar path on 40m! Do let us know about your results! Regards, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob K6UJ Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 1:50 PM To: 160 reflector Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials I also have a 40M GP with 4 elevated resonant radials 6 above the ground. I will be putting up a vertical dipole for 40M center fed with a choke balun for comparison on DX and will compare with the RBN and see what I learn. Has anyone on the forum tested these two 40M antennas using the reverse beacon network ? And if so what were your results ? 73, Bob K6UJ On Dec 15, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: Hi, Tom Well, I also used a 40m GP with 4 elevated resonant radials about 6' above ground and I worked an awful lot of really good DX with it!! I found it to be about equal to my half-wave vertical dipole for 40m. (Center fed through a home-made 1:1 W2DU style current balun) Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:24 PM To: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to raise the effeciancy of a short vertical. Only if the original ground system is a meager system with significant loss. At my QTH on 40 meters, 4 elevated radials at 6 feet above ground were about equal to 12-15 radials in the earth. That would be like 4 radials 24 feet above earth on 160. The difference between them was the elevated radials only worked OK on one or two bands (like 40 and 15), while the buried wires were reasonably good on 160-10 meters, out of view, and protected for lightning. i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading. can i use these raised radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it. it is impossible to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground. Since the antenna is an all band antenna, I don't think I would use a resonant radial. I'd just bury as many radials as I could as long and straight as possible, and enjoy all the bands. If you had 10-20 radials 60 feet or more long, it would be tough to make any improvement on lower bands. If you use a resonant radial system, it really should be ground isolated. That complicates things. This 10-20 loss thing, at least to me, appears to be based on anecdotal unconfirmed opinions. Like deer whistles on cars. 73 Tom ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
Well, I also used a 40m GP with 4 elevated resonant radials about 6' above ground and I worked an awful lot of really good DX with it!! I found it to be about equal to my half-wave vertical dipole for 40m. (Center fed through a home-made 1:1 W2DU style current balun) I'd expect that. When we tested radials on 40M we measured field strength, and that was pretty much the point where not much else could significantly change. However, given the choice of four elevated radials at six feet (equivalent perhaps of 24 feet height on 160, but who knows if it really scales or not) or 12-15 in the ground (and who knows if that also scales to 160), I'd use the buried or laid on earth radials. :-) 73 Tom ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
That is quite an improvement. I had to have dropped the base impedance from 400 ohms to 40 ohms for it to do that. Things are often magic when we rely on feelings or emotions to measure decibels. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
I am very interested in the comparison. I am almost daily on 40m SSB at about 15:00 for LP with a couple of friends. The San Diego area is also good for SP a bit later. RBNs in Europe most of the time will probably not copy you on the LP. Most RBN use poor antennas and the band is still crowded with European contacts. 73 Peter, DJ7WW -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob K6UJ Sent: Samstag, 15. Dezember 2012 20:58 To: Charlie Cunningham Cc: '160 reflector' Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials Charlie, I will post my results. I had a vertical dipole up before and now am using the 40M GP. The vertical dipole seems to be the best performer for DX but what does that mean, hihi. I thought I would make a table with short path, long path etc. and switch to each antenna using the RBN. Any suggestions on other comparisons or set up ? 73, Bob K6UJ On Dec 15, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: Well, I haven't done such an elaborate test, Bob! But I'd be extremely interested in seeing your results! At present my 40 m GP is down because I needed to clear away the radials for some tree work I still have parallel 40/30 vertical dipoles center fed through a W2DU style current balun. When I had the 40m GP in place. I could do direct comparisons. I was relying mostly on signal reports from 9V1YC other Asians and ease of working him and others in south Asia on the evening south polar path on 40m! Do let us know about your results! Regards, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob K6UJ Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 1:50 PM To: 160 reflector Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials I also have a 40M GP with 4 elevated resonant radials 6 above the ground. I will be putting up a vertical dipole for 40M center fed with a choke balun for comparison on DX and will compare with the RBN and see what I learn. Has anyone on the forum tested these two 40M antennas using the reverse beacon network ? And if so what were your results ? 73, Bob K6UJ On Dec 15, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Charlie Cunningham wrote: Hi, Tom Well, I also used a 40m GP with 4 elevated resonant radials about 6' above ground and I worked an awful lot of really good DX with it!! I found it to be about equal to my half-wave vertical dipole for 40m. (Center fed through a home-made 1:1 W2DU style current balun) Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:24 PM To: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: raised radials the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to raise the effeciancy of a short vertical. Only if the original ground system is a meager system with significant loss. At my QTH on 40 meters, 4 elevated radials at 6 feet above ground were about equal to 12-15 radials in the earth. That would be like 4 radials 24 feet above earth on 160. The difference between them was the elevated radials only worked OK on one or two bands (like 40 and 15), while the buried wires were reasonably good on 160-10 meters, out of view, and protected for lightning. i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading. can i use these raised radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it. it is impossible to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground. Since the antenna is an all band antenna, I don't think I would use a resonant radial. I'd just bury as many radials as I could as long and straight as possible, and enjoy all the bands. If you had 10-20 radials 60 feet or more long, it would be tough to make any improvement on lower bands. If you use a resonant radial system, it really should be ground isolated. That complicates things. This 10-20 loss thing, at least to me, appears to be based on anecdotal unconfirmed opinions. Like deer whistles on cars. 73 Tom ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
One thing I've wondered: are elevated radials more likely to pickup local QRN than those on the ground, or buried? The on-ground 160M loop antennas I've used for reception seemed quieter here than those that were elevated 15-20'. Before my 160 tree blew down this Fall and took the Inv-L antenna with it, I could walk around with an AM radio next to the 8 elevated tuned radials (4' at the antenna base angling up to ~15' in the trees) and pick up local hash and some minor AM BCB. Some radials were 'louder' than others, mainly those closest to potential noise sources like the AC power line or the house meter loop. I never tried that with on-ground radials as I had none to compare them with. The antenna base was ungrounded and fed through a custom wound UN-UN followed by a DXE VFCC-H10-A choke. There was no BCB in the shack end of the coax where I had slipped on 10 Type 31 ferrite beads, but there was still city QRN of course. 73, Gary NL7Y ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Topband: raised radials
the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to raise the effeciancy of a short vertical. i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading. can i use these raised radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it. it is impossible to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground. david/wd4kpd -- God's law is set in stone..everything else is negotiable. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to raise the effeciancy of a short vertical. Only if the original ground system is a meager system with significant loss. At my QTH on 40 meters, 4 elevated radials at 6 feet above ground were about equal to 12-15 radials in the earth. That would be like 4 radials 24 feet above earth on 160. The difference between them was the elevated radials only worked OK on one or two bands (like 40 and 15), while the buried wires were reasonably good on 160-10 meters, out of view, and protected for lightning. i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading. can i use these raised radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it. it is impossible to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground. Since the antenna is an all band antenna, I don't think I would use a resonant radial. I'd just bury as many radials as I could as long and straight as possible, and enjoy all the bands. If you had 10-20 radials 60 feet or more long, it would be tough to make any improvement on lower bands. If you use a resonant radial system, it really should be ground isolated. That complicates things. This 10-20 loss thing, at least to me, appears to be based on anecdotal unconfirmed opinions. Like deer whistles on cars. 73 Tom ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: raised radials
A ground screen mesh extending out at least 25' from the base would reduces losses considerably since just 10-20 radials has little effect. At a prior QTH, going from 100 radials of 60-130' to spokes of 4' x 50' rabbit wire mesh on top of them made the difference between also ran and pileup busting on 160. Id call that at least 10dB in anybodys book. My soil was like beach sand altho 20 miles from the ocean; likely leftover from the iceage roll back. - Original Message - From: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD wd4...@suddenlink.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:04 PM Subject: Topband: raised radials the more i read, it seems raised radials are a fairly easy way to raise the effeciancy of a short vertical. i have a hy-gain 18ht with base loading. can i use these raised radials with this antenna, and if so how to do it. it is impossible to raise the whole antenna to get the base off the ground. david/wd4kpd -- God's law is set in stone..everything else is negotiable. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2634/5459 - Release Date: 12/14/12 ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
