Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Kostas SV1DPI]

terry burge wrote:

It was an interesting experiment and later around 08:00Z I did manage to work 
G4AMN, EI6S and G4PEL direct

You have lost the most important point about webSDRs:
Terry says that he worked 3 guys direct and 3 guys via webSDR. He didn't 
logged the last 3. Well done. But he logged the first 3,the guys he 
worked direct. But how does he know that they were listening him direct? 
And if these guys were listening him via a webSDR in West Coast? Is this 
QSO ok? Or this is the same with his webSDR QSO?
This is the main problem and we need to understand it. It is not enough 
to be honest myself but the others must do the same also... A right QSO 
needs 2 stations...

73 Kostas SV1DPI
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Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Agelos-SV3RF via Topband]

 What bothers me from this story is that we all become websdr user 
suspects.Especially those of us with increased RX capabilities.Agelos-SV3RF
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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[terry burge]

The communication act of 1934 has be 'amended', changed, whatever a few years 
back by congress. I think it was on behalf of the NSA and CIA or homeland 
security. (always hated that 'homeland security' name. It sounds too much like 
'for the Fatherland' for me). And the cellphone companies. You can not listen 
to cellphone frequencies up in the 940Mhz range or so That is why VHF./UHF 
receiver like my Icom R-7000 are blocked there. Buy one in some other country 
and you find them being sold with those cellphone frequencies working. And what 
about the rule where you are not suppose to pass on any information you hear on 
the radio to the public. Every time hams dememstraight a field day operation to 
the local TV or newspaper I've wondered if it was technically a violation of 
the FCC part 95 rules. Or when some ship in distress gets a ham to contact 
authorities and pass on the coordinated and ccondition they at in needing help 
for.


Just wish that had not messed with the communications act of 1934. I thought it 
was one time when congress do something right for the public.


Terry

KI7M

> On January 16, 2018 at 3:02 PM jayb1...@optonline.net 
> mailto:jayb1...@optonline.net wrote:
> 
> 
> I think we are all losing sight of one important fact: the “rules” 
> everyone
> seems to speaking about are ARRL rules...the only “rules” ANY ham is
> obligated to follow are the applicable government regulations associated
> with the country they have been licensed by. Believe it or not, not all 
> hams
> in the world belong to, or care about, the ARRL. Remember the 
> Communications
> Act of 1934 ? This law guarantees that anybody can RECEIVE radio signals 
> on
> any band in any way they can get them. The only “rules” in the US are
> written to govern the nature and frequencies of TRANSMISSIONS of RF.
> It is hard for me to understand why so many of us seem to want to impose
> their own interpretation of the “rules” on our fellow hams when most of 
> them
> don’t care how the DX station hears them as long as they “make the 
> contact”.
> If any station decides that this is not a valid QSO (for ARRL reasons), he
> can choose to leave it out of his log...What other stations do with that
> situation should be of no concern to him.
> We can only wait and see how the ARRL acts (or not) on the use of web 
> sdr’s
> as it relates to DXCC, contests, etc. I would expect a heated debate at HQ
> as acting against their use denies the technology, something they have 
> been
> wont to do.
> For now, I will work them now, worry about the “rules” later (or not).
> Remember to have fun guys
> 73 jay NY2NY
> _
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> 
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Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Jim Thomson]

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:41:05 +0800
From: Jeff Blaine <keepwalking...@ac0c.com>
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log


http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[JAYB1943]

I think we are all losing sight of one important fact: the “rules” everyone 
seems to speaking about are ARRL rules...the only “rules” ANY ham is 
obligated to follow are the applicable government regulations associated 
with the country they have been licensed by. Believe it or not, not all hams 
in the world belong to, or care about, the ARRL. Remember the Communications 
Act of 1934 ? This law guarantees that anybody can RECEIVE radio signals on 
any band in any way they can get them. The only “rules” in the US are 
written to govern the nature and frequencies of TRANSMISSIONS of RF.
It is hard for me to understand why so many of us seem to want to impose 
their own interpretation of the “rules” on our fellow hams when most of them 
don’t care how the DX station hears them as long as they “make the contact”. 
If any station decides that this is not a valid QSO (for ARRL reasons), he 
can choose to leave it out of his log...What other stations do with that 
situation should be of no concern to him.
We can only wait and see how the ARRL acts (or not) on the use of web sdr’s 
as it relates to DXCC, contests, etc. I would expect a heated debate at HQ 
as acting against their use denies the technology, something they have been 
wont to do.
For now, I will work them now, worry about the “rules” later (or not).
Remember to have fun guys
73 jay NY2NY 
_
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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[terry burge]

Hi Nick and the group,

Nick, I was running a KW to my inv-V at 100'. Far as I know they don't use 
SDR's. It was an interesting experiment and later around 08:00Z I did manage to 
work G4AMN, EI6S and G4PEL direct. It amazed me how strong some of the stations 
were in Europe and how hard they were to hear on the west coast. But of course 
that is the problem with working Europe from Oregon. They were loud like we 
hear the W6's, W7's, etc. I did hear OK2,OE3,DL,YT1AA and others that would be 
new countries for me on 80, not to mention 160 meters of course. But I'm just 
too stuck in my ways I guess to change. 

Do you suppose the last T-Rex to die wished he was a ground squirrel?

This morning I got up and smiled that I did not put the contacts in my log that 
required the SDR. That's my way of staying true to what I feel my DXCC should 
be done. I'm not really that big on wall paper as some refer to it, but after 
having spent 40 years chasing DX on ham radio and before that BCB and SWL, I 
feel some pride in those DXCC's on my wall. Same way with some of the contest 
ones.

DXCC is what you make it. I just hope the commercial interest at the ARRL don't 
ruin it. Ever try to find technical articles on their webpage. I don't think 
you can anymore without buying their DVD's or some other way of getting more 
money.

Terry
KI7M
> On January 16, 2018 at 7:17 AM Nick Hall-Patch  wrote:
> 
> 
> Did the Europeans hear your barefoot transmission, but you were not 
> able to hear their barefoot transmission Terry?   Or were you both 
> using webSDRs in each others' localities?
> 
> (and was this on 160m?)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Nick
> VE7DXR
> 
> At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
> >Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
> >on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
> >and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish 
> >in the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
> >They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. 
> >And I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the 
> >world would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out 
> >of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
> >reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!
> >
> >
> >So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
> >webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
> >maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
> >Radio geeks think.
> >
> >
> >Terry
> >
> >KI7M
> >
> >_
> >Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> Nick Hall-Patch
> Victoria, BC
> Canada 
> 
> 
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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Nick Hall-Patch]

Did the Europeans hear your barefoot transmission, but you were not 
able to hear their barefoot transmission Terry?   Or were you both 
using webSDRs in each others' localities?


(and was this on 160m?)

Thanks.

Nick
VE7DXR

At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish 
in the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. 
And I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the 
world would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out 
of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!



So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
Radio geeks think.



Terry

KI7M

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Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada 



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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Jeff Blaine]

Hi gary,

I thought that was the rule.  But I've not dug into it because I don't 
use the remotes.  So just now I looked and you are 100% right.  Here's 
what the ARRL web page says from Section 1...


*9.  Station Location and Boundary:*

*a)*All stations used to make contacts for a specific DXCC award must be 
located within the same DXCC entity.
*b)*All transmitters and receivers comprising a station used for a 
specific contact must be located within a 500-meter diameter circle.
*c)*QSOs made with legally licensed, remotely controlled stations are 
allowed to be used for DXCC credit.


Thanks for setting me straight!

73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com

On 16-Jan-18 10:30 PM, StellarCAT wrote:

Jeff wrote:
“There is no way to supervise this behavior globally.  .- 
even though ARRL DXCC regulations make the use of an east-coast USA remote 
receiver point perfectly acceptable. ...I really can't 
complaint because it's allowed explicitly by the rules and it's within their 
set of choices.  “
73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com  This is the second post I’ve seen that states this ... did I miss 
something in the rules for DXCC? It seems like it does NOT allow for a remote 
receiver! It ONLY allows for a remote STATION, see rule 9b. It says, I thought, 
that BOTH RX and TX antennas must be within 500M of each other ... so one that 
chooses to receive on the right coast when they’re on the left (or vice versa) 
ISN’T complying with the rules. I recently heard a station that is often high 
on the CL leaderboard – calling the 6O group in the middle of the day on 40 
meters when it was being spotted only by W6’s. This guy is on the EAST coast 
(LP) ... weird propagation?  personally I would not count such a contact – and 
would like to see the agreed to if not required use of something like a /s in 
the call for SDR RX. This would only apply to those that are using remote RX– 
which would then allow stations to decide on what to do with it. But again 
unless I misread it, and if so my apologies, it doesn’t allow for remote RX for 
DXCC!   Gary K9RX
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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[StellarCAT]

Jeff wrote:  
“There is no way to supervise this behavior globally.  .- 
even though ARRL DXCC regulations make the use of an east-coast USA remote 
receiver point perfectly acceptable. ...I really can't 
complaint because it's allowed explicitly by the rules and it's within their 
set of choices.  “
73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com  This is the second post I’ve seen that states this ... did I miss 
something in the rules for DXCC? It seems like it does NOT allow for a remote 
receiver! It ONLY allows for a remote STATION, see rule 9b. It says, I thought, 
that BOTH RX and TX antennas must be within 500M of each other ... so one that 
chooses to receive on the right coast when they’re on the left (or vice versa) 
ISN’T complying with the rules. I recently heard a station that is often high 
on the CL leaderboard – calling the 6O group in the middle of the day on 40 
meters when it was being spotted only by W6’s. This guy is on the EAST coast 
(LP) ... weird propagation?  personally I would not count such a contact – and 
would like to see the agreed to if not required use of something like a /s in 
the call for SDR RX. This would only apply to those that are using remote RX– 
which would then allow stations to decide on what to do with it. But again 
unless I misread it, and if so my apologies, it doesn’t allow for remote RX for 
DXCC!   Gary K9RX
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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Jeff Blaine]

There is no way to supervise this behavior globally.  It's ultimately up 
to each op to decide on what falls under ethical conduct.  And opinions 
vary as to what is proper and what's not, even among peoples of a single 
country with similar cultural view.


I personally don't use receivers or antennas that are not located at my 
QTH - even though ARRL DXCC regulations make the use of an east-coast 
USA remote receiver point perfectly acceptable. However that's my choice 
and of course, compared to someone using that sort of arrangement is 
going to have a few more guys in the log that I may never hear which is 
part of the price I pay for the choice I have made.  However if another 
guy wants to take advantage of the rules allowing for a US-based remote 
receiver that is much closer to the other station, I really can't 
complaint because it's allowed explicitly by the rules and it's within 
their set of choices.  The example Peter lists of the webSDR pair is 
certainly possible in the modern world but that kind of QSO is not going 
to go into my log because I've decided that is not my personal sort of 
ham radio QSO.


Each of us has an obligation is to manage our own personal behavior 
within the scope of the official rules - what the rest of the ham world 
does is up to them.  In the end, each ham who looks at a prized QSL from 
a rare one, or who looks at the DXCC plaque on the wall with a count 
higher than their local competition, will know well what decisions they 
have made to get there.  And if they can live with the choices they have 
made, then I'm happy for them.


73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com

On 16-Jan-18 4:09 PM, Peter Sundberg wrote:

So..

- Station A in North America is calling CQ on 1827.0 and is heard by 
Station B in Europe via a webSDR located 50 km away from Station A in 
North America.


- Station B in Europe is calling Station A - who is listening via a 
webSDR in Europe located 50 km away from Station B


- Both stations exchange 599+ reports and greetings for a fine QSO.

Wow, their signal made it 50 km via the airwaves at both ends and was 
then "carried" across the world via the Internet.


What a wonderful Top Band QSO, carried out "the modern way", embracing 
new technology.


OMG.

73
Peter SM2CEW



At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish in 
the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. And 
I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the world 
would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out of it 
was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!



So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
Radio geeks think.



Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Peter Sundberg]

So..

- Station A in North America is calling CQ on 1827.0 and is heard by 
Station B in Europe via a webSDR located 50 km away from Station A in 
North America.


- Station B in Europe is calling Station A - who is listening via a 
webSDR in Europe located 50 km away from Station B


- Both stations exchange 599+ reports and greetings for a fine QSO.

Wow, their signal made it 50 km via the airwaves at both ends and was 
then "carried" across the world via the Internet.


What a wonderful Top Band QSO, carried out "the modern way", 
embracing new technology.


OMG.

73
Peter SM2CEW



At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish 
in the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. 
And I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the 
world would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out 
of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!



So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
Radio geeks think.



Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Peter Voelpel]

Yes, there are several hundred sdr receivers online and reachable via the
internet.

http://sdr.hu/?top=kiwi
http://websdr.org/

And when EA3JE takes over the dx portion of 80m with his wide signal and
illegal power he doesn´t even bother to listen that loud to the websdr he is
using, that from time time his vox is responding to it and you hear it via
his transmissions as well.

73
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of terry
burge
Sent: Dienstag, 16. Januar 2018 07:44
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went on line
and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ and YT1AA. Also
heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish in the barrel. At least
when you plug into the right SDR over there. They are not going in my log
but I did find out it is easy to do. And I believe it would get so easy the
fascination with working the world would be gone for me. It works but the
most of what I got out of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there'
and how poor my reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!


So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those
webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, maybe
hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham Radio geeks
think.


Terry

KI7M

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Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[terry burge]

Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went on line 
and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ and YT1AA. Also 
heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish in the barrel. At least when 
you plug into the right SDR over there. They are not going in my log but I did 
find out it is easy to do. And I believe it would get so easy the fascination 
with working the world would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I 
got out of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!


So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those webSDR's, 
take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, maybe hundreds. Don't 
think they will care what a few of us old Ham Radio geeks think.


Terry

KI7M

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