Re: [tor-bugs] #24046 [Core Tor]: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24046: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays
+
 Reporter:  IgorMitrofanov  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  enhancement | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor|Version:
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [comment:4 nikita]:
 > So based on the votes, increasing the 100 KB/s threshold won't have much
 effect b/c the measured threshold (which I'm assuming is the 12.5th
 percentile of consensus weight?) is actually below 100 KB/s.

 Yes, correct.

 Though, remember that the measurements are unitless weights. They just
 mean that somebody with a weight of 40 should get less attention than
 somebody with a weight of 60. They *don't* mean that they think the relay
 with a weight of 60 should be able to do 60KBytes/s.

 > A probably impractical suggestion: could something like TorPerf be used
 to decide this threshold? The median *circuit* BW  is around 300 KB/s
 
(https://metrics.torproject.org/torperf.html?start=2017-08-01=2017-10-30=all=public=5mb),
 so having a relay with a lower bandwidth than that will make it very
 likely this relay will be a bottleneck for you.

 In a world where all of the relays are weighted appropriately, raising the
 threshold too much (i.e. discarding too many slower relays) could
 counterintuitively *lower* the median circuit bandwidth, because it would
 shift more load onto the relays that used to be fast, making them less
 fast.

 I think our main problem now is that we are not close enough to this world
 where all of the relays are weighted appropriately.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24046 [Core Tor]: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24046: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays
+
 Reporter:  IgorMitrofanov  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  enhancement | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor|Version:
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [comment:3 IgorMitrofanov]:
 > 1 KB/s on blutmagie, 134.55 KB/s observed on Atlas (single spike a few
 days ago). The chart on blutmagie says "Bytes/Sec Average", so perhaps its
 a different number indeed.

 Ah ha -- yes, I think the 1KB/s is actually reported average traffic
 handled. Not capacity.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24046 [Core Tor]: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24046: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays
+
 Reporter:  IgorMitrofanov  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  enhancement | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor|Version:
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+
Changes (by nikita):

 * cc: nikita@… (added)


Comment:

 So based on the votes, increasing the 100 KB/s threshold won't have much
 effect b/c the measured threshold (which I'm assuming is the 12.5th
 percentile of consensus weight?) is actually below 100 KB/s.

 A probably impractical suggestion: could something like TorPerf be used to
 decide this threshold? The median *circuit* BW  is around 300 KB/s
 
(https://metrics.torproject.org/torperf.html?start=2017-08-01=2017-10-30=all=public=5mb),
 so having a relay with a lower bandwidth than that will make it very
 likely this relay will be a bottleneck for you.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24046 [Core Tor]: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24046: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays
+
 Reporter:  IgorMitrofanov  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  enhancement | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor|Version:
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+

Comment (by IgorMitrofanov):

 I clicked on several sub-100 KB/s relays on blutmagie.de with the "Fast"
 flag set.
 Atlas showed 100+ KB/s observed bandwidth for them.

 For example:

 https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/A47AD4BCD488D28FF47A8B5702534B6D962BF06F
 
http://blutmagie.de/router_detail.php?FP=9ba951be5be9c4e5ec91e72be35d7529b5475262

 Advertised 100 KB/s, observed 119 KB/s, 25 KB/s on blutmagie. The chart on
 blutmagie says "Bytes/Sec Average" (so it could be that no circuits were
 built through the relay, reducing its average, due to its low consensus
 weight or because the observed bandwidth exceeded the advertised).

 Still, I browsing the modern web through that one could be painful.
 Torprojects's own blog page is ~700K with images.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24046 [Core Tor]: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24046: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays
+
 Reporter:  IgorMitrofanov  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  enhancement | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor|Version:
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+

Comment (by arma):

 For posterity, here's a snapshot from the vote this round:
 {{{
 $ grep flag-thresholds v3-status-votes
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1134437 stable-mtbf=2116106 fast-
 speed=102000 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=5261000
 guard-bw-exc-exits=4838000 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=0
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1154511 stable-mtbf=2100499 fast-speed=54000
 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=755 guard-bw-exc-
 exits=660 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=1
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1138069 stable-mtbf=1592656 fast-
 speed=102000 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=5261000
 guard-bw-exc-exits=4845000 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=0
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1134543 stable-mtbf=2032332 fast-
 speed=102000 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=5361000
 guard-bw-exc-exits=4917000 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=0
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1134437 stable-mtbf=2139903 fast-
 speed=102000 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=542
 guard-bw-exc-exits=4976000 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=0
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1221337 stable-mtbf=1721768 fast-speed=82000
 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=674 guard-bw-exc-
 exits=600 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=1
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1146962 stable-mtbf=2149171 fast-
 speed=102000 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=5453000
 guard-bw-exc-exits=5034000 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=0
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1150537 stable-mtbf=1068904 fast-speed=46000
 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=635 guard-bw-exc-
 exits=559 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=1
 flag-thresholds stable-uptime=1149579 stable-mtbf=1752326 fast-speed=61000
 guard-wfu=98.000% guard-tk=691200 guard-bw-inc-exits=752 guard-bw-exc-
 exits=671 enough-mtbf=1 ignoring-advertised-bws=1
 }}}

 Five of the nine votes have a Fast threshold of 100KBytes, because five of
 the nine votes don't have their own bwauth attached to them. The ticket
 for getting the non-measurers to just believe the measurers is #11327.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24046 [Core Tor]: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24046: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays
+
 Reporter:  IgorMitrofanov  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  enhancement | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor|Version:
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [ticket:24046 IgorMitrofanov]:
 > In addition to the threshold being low, it does not seem to be
 consistently applied. Sorting the list of all relays on blutmagie.de shows
 that some relays with bandwidth as low as 1 KB/s still have the "Fast"
 flag set.

 Can you point to the Atlas links for some of these relays?

 There are many things that can be described as a relay's "bandwidth", and
 I suspect that Blutmagie might be referring to something different here.

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[tor-bugs] #24046 [Core Tor]: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24046: Building circuits through Fast (actually) relays
+
 Reporter:  IgorMitrofanov  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  enhancement | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor|Version:
 Severity:  Normal  |   Keywords:
Actual Points:  |  Parent ID:
   Points:  |   Reviewer:
  Sponsor:  |
+
 As a Tor user, I would like to have an option to build my circuits through
 relays that can deliver a typical modern web page within a few seconds. I
 do understand that it depends on many factors outside the nominal capacity
 of relays, and that it may not always be possible.

 I run a few relays, and the "Fast" flag caught my attention mainly due to
 its name. The "Fast" flag may not be the right knob to protect the user
 experience; this ticket is just to make sure it does not stand in the way.

 A relay is only required to provide 100 KB/s of *maximum* bandwidth to be
 considered "Fast" and for users to build general-purpose circuits through
 it. I suspect that 100 KB/s, even with no other traffic competing for that
 bandwidth, is insufficient for a good browsing experience.

 In addition to the threshold being low, it does not seem to be
 consistently applied. Sorting the list of all relays on blutmagie.de shows
 that some relays with bandwidth as low as 1 KB/s still have the "Fast"
 flag set.

 I don't have a proposal - I suspect "making Tor faster" is a big and
 complex challenge. With this ticket, I would like to make sure that 1) the
 100 KB/s threshold is not just a magic number but is derived from some
 concrete (Sybil-related and/or user experience-related) rule that allows
 it to auto-scale, and 2) it is applied consistently.

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