Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:  53
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+
Changes (by teor):

 * points:  52 => 53


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:  52
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+
Changes (by teor):

 * points:   => 52


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by teor):

 Replying to [comment:9 teor]:
 > Replying to [comment:8 nusenu]:
 > > Replying to [comment:7 teor]:
 > > > nusenu, you're also using some different calculations from the
 grant:
 > > > * you're calculating Guard IPv6 consensus weight fraction
 > >
 > > I don't know about the grant but I can explain what my value says, it
 is not what you think it is.
 > >
 > > I'm not looking at cw fraction to calculate the "Guard: 29.06%" line
 above.
 > >
 > > I take and sum up onionoo's guard_probability [1] value of relays that
 have an IPv6 OrPort.
 > > The guard_probability of relays having the exit flag is always 0, with
 one exception:
 > > If the relay has the Exit and BadExit flags, in this specific but rare
 case the exit
 > > relay can have a non-zero guard probability.
 >
 > Great, so we're using similar calculations.
 >
 > > > * the grant uses Guard-but-not-Exit IPv6 consensus weight fraction
 > >
 > > If the grant is about supporting Tor clients only (which I hope it is
 not since I thought client-to-guard supports IPv6 already) than it seems
 odd
 > > to use cw fraction instead of "what fraction of guard capacity is
 reachable via IPv6?" metrics.
 >
 > The grant is about increasing the number of relays on IPv6, so that it's
 safer for clients to use IPv6:
 > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor55
 >
 > > [1]
 https://metrics.torproject.org/onionoo.html#details_relay_guard_probability

 Thanks for this feedback, I have explicitly described the divisors for
 each calculation in my draft proposal 313:
 https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2020-February/014158.html

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by teor):

 Replying to [comment:2 arma]:
 > Replying to [ticket:33045 gaba]:
 > > In order to better support IPv6, we aim to increase the client to
 Guard relay bandwidth that supports IPv6 to 33%.
 >
 > Great goal! One of the steps that will help the network health team help
 us get there is if we have a way to visualize progress. Like, a graph on
 the metrics site, or even a graph off to the side of the metrics site if
 they are too worried about having to maintain it forever, and maybe it
 only needs to be updated once a day if that's easier, where anybody can
 check what number we're at today.
 >
 > Then it becomes an advocacy thing where we can cheer ourselves on for
 making progress, and point relay operators to so they can see the impact
 of their changes.
 >
 > teor has identified some great technical improvements that will make it
 easier for relay operators to help out here, and we should definitely do
 those in order to make this change sustainable. But doing the
 visualization in parallel, so we can see our progress, would be swell.
 >
 > Having the automation of a graph over time also lets anybody notice,
 even after we close this ticket as completed, that the number has
 mysteriously dropped and needs to be looked into.
 >
 > Gaba, is this something you can bring to the metrics team? Especially if
 teor gives them a script that takes in a consensus and outputs a fraction?

 Thanks for this feedback, Roger.

 I've added metrics graphs, relay search pseudo-flags, and a consensus-
 health IPv6 section as optional changes in Proposal 313:
 https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2020-February/014158.html

 We've spoken with the metrics team, and we're not sure what capacity they
 have over the next 6 months. Or how much funding will be available in
 Sponsor 55, after all the required work is done.

 So we aren't sure what we will be able to do yet.

 (We can also apply for other grants to do this metrics work.)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by teor):

 Replying to [comment:8 nusenu]:
 > Replying to [comment:7 teor]:
 > > nusenu, you're also using some different calculations from the grant:
 > > * you're calculating Guard IPv6 consensus weight fraction
 >
 > I don't know about the grant but I can explain what my value says, it is
 not what you think it is.
 >
 > I'm not looking at cw fraction to calculate the "Guard: 29.06%" line
 above.
 >
 > I take and sum up onionoo's guard_probability [1] value of relays that
 have an IPv6 OrPort.
 > The guard_probability of relays having the exit flag is always 0, with
 one exception:
 > If the relay has the Exit and BadExit flags, in this specific but rare
 case the exit
 > relay can have a non-zero guard probability.

 Great, so we're using similar calculations.

 > > * the grant uses Guard-but-not-Exit IPv6 consensus weight fraction
 >
 > If the grant is about supporting Tor clients only (which I hope it is
 not since I thought client-to-guard supports IPv6 already) than it seems
 odd
 > to use cw fraction instead of "what fraction of guard capacity is
 reachable via IPv6?" metrics.

 The grant is about increasing the number of relays on IPv6, so that it's
 safer for clients to use IPv6:
 https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor55

 > [1]
 https://metrics.torproject.org/onionoo.html#details_relay_guard_probability

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by nusenu):

 Replying to [comment:7 teor]:
 > nusenu, you're also using some different calculations from the grant:
 > * you're calculating Guard IPv6 consensus weight fraction

 I don't know about the grant but I can explain what my value says, it is
 not what you think it is.

 I'm not looking at cw fraction to calculate the "Guard: 29.06%" line
 above.

 I take and sum up onionoo's guard_probability [1] value of relays that
 have an IPv6 OrPort.
 The guard_probability of relays having the exit flag is always 0, with one
 exception:
 If the relay has the Exit and BadExit flags, in this specific but rare
 case the exit
 relay can have a non-zero guard probability.

 > * the grant uses Guard-but-not-Exit IPv6 consensus weight fraction

 If the grant is about supporting Tor clients only (which I hope it is not
 since I thought client-to-guard supports IPv6 already) than it seems odd
 to use cw fraction instead of "what fraction of guard capacity is
 reachable via IPv6?" metrics.


 [1]
 https://metrics.torproject.org/onionoo.html#details_relay_guard_probability

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by teor):

 Replying to [comment:5 gaba]:
 > Replying to [comment:3 nusenu]:
 > > > By the numbers, about 29% of Tor’s relay bandwidth supports IPv6--
 but functionally, only 20% of Tor’s available bandwidth supports IPv6.
 > >
 > > These numbers seem outdated.
 > >
 > > onionoo data from 2020-01-24 23:00 UTC:
 > >
 > > What cw fraction / guard/middle/exit probability has an IPv6 ORPort?
 > > CW Fraction: 31.83%
 > > Guard: 29.06%
 > > Middle:  29.79%
 > > Exit: 39.24%
 > > Relays count:  1210
 > >
 > > daily updated onionoo based IPv6 stats:
 https://nusenu.github.io/OrNetStats/#ipv6-relay-stats
 > >
 > > IPv6 related metrics graph:
 > > https://metrics.torproject.org/relays-ipv6.html
 >
 > Thanks! Those numbers were from when we wrote the project last year.

 nusenu, you're also using some different calculations from the grant:
 * you're calculating Guard IPv6 consensus weight fraction
 * the grant uses Guard-but-not-Exit IPv6 consensus weight fraction

 Since exit bandwidth is scarce in the tor network, tor clients use Guard-
 Exits as Exits. Therefore, to support IPv6 clients, we need to increase
 Guard-but-not-Exit IPv6 consensus weight.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by teor):

 Replying to [comment:4 gaba]:
 > Replying to [comment:2 arma]:
 > > Gaba, is this something you can bring to the metrics team? Especially
 if teor gives them a script that takes in a consensus and outputs a
 fraction?
 >
 > We can talk about it in the meeting next week.

 I've also added these ideas to my IPv6 statistics proposal draft, see
 #33159.

 I'll put them in the "optional work" section, and we can prioritise after
 all the essential work is done.

 Sponsor 55 is a small grant, so we won't have time to do everything.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by gaba):

 Replying to [comment:3 nusenu]:
 > > By the numbers, about 29% of Tor’s relay bandwidth supports IPv6--but
 functionally, only 20% of Tor’s available bandwidth supports IPv6.
 >
 > These numbers seem outdated.
 >
 > onionoo data from 2020-01-24 23:00 UTC:
 >
 > What cw fraction / guard/middle/exit probability has an IPv6 ORPort?
 > CW Fraction: 31.83%
 > Guard: 29.06%
 > Middle:  29.79%
 > Exit: 39.24%
 > Relays count:  1210
 >
 > daily updated onionoo based IPv6 stats:
 https://nusenu.github.io/OrNetStats/#ipv6-relay-stats
 >
 > IPv6 related metrics graph:
 > https://metrics.torproject.org/relays-ipv6.html


 Thanks! Those numbers were from when we wrote the project last year.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by gaba):

 Replying to [comment:2 arma]:
 > Gaba, is this something you can bring to the metrics team? Especially if
 teor gives them a script that takes in a consensus and outputs a fraction?

 We can talk about it in the meeting next week.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by nusenu):

 > By the numbers, about 29% of Tor’s relay bandwidth supports IPv6--but
 functionally, only 20% of Tor’s available bandwidth supports IPv6.

 These numbers seem outdated.

 onionoo data from 2020-01-24 23:00 UTC:

 What cw fraction / guard/middle/exit probability has an IPv6 ORPort?
 CW Fraction: 31.83%
 Guard: 29.06%
 Middle:  29.79%
 Exit: 39.24%
 Relays count:  1210

 daily updated onionoo based IPv6 stats:
 https://nusenu.github.io/OrNetStats/#ipv6-relay-stats

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [ticket:33045 gaba]:
 > In order to better support IPv6, we aim to increase the client to Guard
 relay bandwidth that supports IPv6 to 33%.

 Great goal! One of the steps that will help the network health team help
 us get there is if we have a way to visualize progress. Like, a graph on
 the metrics site, or even a graph off to the side of the metrics site if
 they are too worried about having to maintain it forever, and maybe it
 only needs to be updated once a day if that's easier, where anybody can
 check what number we're at today.

 Then it becomes an advocacy thing where we can cheer ourselves on for
 making progress, and point relay operators to so they can see the impact
 of their changes.

 teor has identified some great technical improvements that will make it
 easier for relay operators to help out here, and we should definitely do
 those in order to make this change sustainable. But doing the
 visualization in parallel, so we can see our progress, would be swell.

 Having the automation of a graph over time also lets anybody notice, even
 after we close this ticket as completed, that the number has mysteriously
 dropped and needs to be looked into.

 Gaba, is this something you can bring to the metrics team? Especially if
 teor gives them a script that takes in a consensus and outputs a fraction?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor55-must
--+
Changes (by gaba):

 * sponsor:  Sponsor55 => Sponsor55-must


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[tor-bugs] #33045 [Core Tor/Tor]: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33045: Increase the number of Tor network relays that support IPv6
--+
 Reporter:  gaba  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Core Tor/Tor  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal|   Keywords:
Actual Points:|  Parent ID:
   Points:|   Reviewer:
  Sponsor:  Sponsor55 |
--+
 By the numbers, about 29% of Tor’s relay bandwidth supports IPv6--but
 functionally, only 20% of Tor’s available bandwidth supports IPv6. This is
 because some Guard relays are also Exit relays, and as such, they are only
 used as Exits by Tor clients. These limitations mean that even if an Exit
 relay supports IPv6, it doesn’t functionally increase the Tor network’s
 client to Guard IPv6 bandwidth.

 In order to better support IPv6, we aim to increase the client to Guard
 relay bandwidth that supports IPv6 to 33%. Reaching this goal (and
 completing this project) is the first step in a longer-term effort to
 implement “fast fallback,” which will make sure that Tor clients first try
 IPv4 and then try IPv6 after a short delay, using whichever option works.

 To increase the functional relay bandwidth that supports IPv6, we need to
 improve the way we handle configuration for dual stack Tor relays (relays
 that support both IPv4 and IPv6). As it stands, dual stack relays require
 some manual configuration, which can be a setup barrier for relay
 operators. Automating relay IPv6 address discovery and reachability checks
 will help operators to run more dual stack relays more easily and, over
 time, increase the number of relays that support IPv6.

 More information about this project at
 https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor55

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