Re: [tor-bugs] #18911 [User Experience/Website]: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay uses Cloudflare)

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#18911: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay 
uses
Cloudflare)
-+---
 Reporter:  cypherpunks  |  Owner:  Sebastian
 Type:  defect   | Status:  closed
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  User Experience/Website  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:  invalid
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+---
Changes (by Sebastian):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => invalid


Comment:

 This is not really a website ticket, instead it should be brought up with
 the execdir. The website only reflects what Tor as an org is supporting
 atm. I'm sorry I don't have a better solution for you

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Re: [tor-bugs] #18911 [User Experience/Website]: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay uses Cloudflare)

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#18911: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay 
uses
Cloudflare)
-+---
 Reporter:  cypherpunks  |  Owner:  Sebastian
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  User Experience/Website  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+---

Comment (by cypherpunks):

 *Possible Whaleclub+bitsquare approach*

 BTC donations immediately deposited and converted to USD (for example).
 Since it's stored as fiat money and accounted as such.  Assuming that
 satisfies audit requirements, it can be stored that way.  Then to get the
 money out, you must have staff who would accept part of their paychecks in
 btc, so you trade USD for BTC and direct the btc to staff wallets.

 Alternatively, the bleeding-edge option is to use (very Tor-friendly)
 bitsquare (a decentralized p2p btc platform).  It's still experimental,
 but when it's in full swing torproject could offer btc sale orders on it.
 When someone accepts, torproject could convert the USD to btc on
 whaleclub, withdraw, and push it straight to the bitsquare txn.

 The Bitsquare platform is designed specifically for Tor, and thus promotes
 Tor.  So Torproject should reciprocate.  Particularly when most bitcoin
 exchangers (incl. bitpay) piss on Tor users.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #18911 [User Experience/Website]: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay uses Cloudflare)

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#18911: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay 
uses
Cloudflare)
-+---
 Reporter:  cypherpunks  |  Owner:  Sebastian
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  User Experience/Website  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+---

Comment (by cypherpunks):

 Tough question. A vast majority of btc exchangers are CloudFlare.

 Another problem with the donation mechanism is that it gives a margin to
 bitpay and donors are not told up front.  A bitcoin donor would expect
 100% of their btc to go to torproject, which torproject could then store
 and spend directly as needed.

 Perhaps whaleclub.co can simulate the effect of storing bitcoin.
 Whaleclub is a broker that only accepts bitcoin deposits and bitcoin
 withdrawals, and doesn't use any CDN (so no MitM).  A btc contribution
 could be immediately converted to USD, gold, or stock, and be stored as
 such.  Then when torproject needs to spend bitcoin, they could convert the
 USD or whatever back into bitcoin the moment spending it is needed.  Does
 this help?

 A few other bitcoin sites that don't use CF:

 FXChoice, TradersWay, 796.com

 796.com uses Incapsula as a CDN.

 xCFD: I hesitate to mention them, because they outsource the btc->usd
 conversion to gocoin.com, and gocoin.com is a cloudflare site.  Cloudflare
 seems to be bypassed by xCFD.  But in any case, it's still not good to
 feed a CF site so xCFD should be a last option.

 I'm not necessarily endorsing these sites as I don't use them, but they
 should be examined.  I suggest starting with Whaleclub, FXChoice, and
 TradersWay.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #18911 [User Experience/Website]: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay uses Cloudflare)

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#18911: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay 
uses
Cloudflare)
-+---
 Reporter:  cypherpunks  |  Owner:  Sebastian
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  User Experience/Website  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+---

Comment (by teor):

 Replying to [comment:3 cypherpunks]:
 > What's the point in using bitpay in the first place?
 >
 > Torproject should have it's own wallet, and that wallet should be
 offline, or at least not in the cloud.  Torproject could simply publish
 the bitcoin address on the webpage.

 It's hard for Tor to pass audit requirements and accept bitcoin.
 Immediate conversion to US dollars is one way of achieving this outcome.

 But I agree, we could switch to another provider that allows donors to
 donate bitcoin, and pays out in US dollars (and doesn't use CloudFlare, or
 otherwise block Tor).

 Do you know of any?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #18911 [User Experience/Website]: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay uses Cloudflare)

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#18911: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay 
uses
Cloudflare)
-+---
 Reporter:  cypherpunks  |  Owner:  Sebastian
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  User Experience/Website  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+---

Comment (by cypherpunks):

 What's the point in using bitpay in the first place?

 Torproject should have it's own wallet, and that wallet should be offline,
 or at least not in the cloud.  Torproject could simply publish the bitcoin
 address on the webpage.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #18911 [User Experience/Website]: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay uses Cloudflare)

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#18911: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay 
uses
Cloudflare)
-+---
 Reporter:  cypherpunks  |  Owner:  Sebastian
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  User Experience/Website  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+---

Comment (by cypherpunks):

 Yikes! It's despicable that torproject is using bitpay!  This is wrong on
 so many levels.

 1) bitpay.com is insecure by design, MitM'd by CloudFlare.

   https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=831835

 2) CloudFlare is the most damaging adversary to the Tor community. It's an
 embarrassment that Torproject is willing to patronize a CloudFlare patron,
 while at the same time putting Tor users at risk to having their money
 jacked.  Tor is supposed to improve security, not damage security.

 Possible fixes:

 * Dump bitpay immediately.

 Unreasonable fixes:

 * Fixing the bitpay transactions so that the Tor community sponsors their
 adversary and remains exposed to MitMs.

 WTF!

 Now that Bruce Schneier is on the board (welcome, Mr. Schneier), we expect
 a solid solution to this ticket that shows that our own house is in order.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #18911 [User Experience/Website]: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay uses Cloudflare)

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#18911: bitcoin donations via BitPay don't work properly for tor users (BitPay 
uses
Cloudflare)
-+---
 Reporter:  cypherpunks  |  Owner:  Sebastian
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  User Experience/Website  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+---
Changes (by cypherpunks):

 * owner:   => Sebastian
 * component:  - Select a component => User Experience/Website


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