Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
Hi teor. Thank you for the detailed feedback on the Pluggable Transport 2.0, Draft 2 proposal. Your email covers a number of topics, which I will attempt to address. I have grouped the issues you've raised into some different categories. 1. Issues inherited from the PT 1.0 specification - We tried not to make many large changes from PT 1.0 in order to preserve as much compatibility as possible. We would be happy to discuss making additional changes in the upcoming PT 2.1 specification process. 2. Feature requests to help serve the needs of Tor - Tor folks were certainly involved in the PT 2.0 specification process. Roger, Nick, and Yawning attended the meetings. However, I can see that there are some feature requests from you and Yawning that did not make it into the PT 2.0 specification. We would love to see these discussed as part of the PT 2.1 specification. I have already made a note to include them on the agenda for the Pluggable Transport Implementers Meeting, which is happening after TorDev. If you would like to participate in the specification process, that would be very helpful and ensure that these feature requests make it into the proposal and are specified in a way that meets your needs for Tor. 3. Requests for clarification - These have generally been incorporated into the latest draft, PT 2.0 draft 3. I will be sending this out shortly. I hope that you will find that the new draft addresses many of the areas that you found unclear in the previous draft. 4. Clarification of issues outside of the scope of the specification document - I will attempt to answer these below: How will Tor implement the relevant interfaces? These is discussed in this Trac issue from the last TorDev: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/21816 The code changes to Tor are minimal. The authentication method uses to send per-connection arguments to transports has been changed in PT 2.0 to use a custom SOCKS authentication method instead of using the username and password authentication method. No other changes are required to Tor to use PT 2.0 transport providers. We have provided a patch to Tor to implement this functionality in a backwards-incompatible way, so both PT 1.0 and PT 2.0 providers can be used with the patch. We have also implemented a PT 2.0-compatible transport provider, which is available here: https://github.com/OperatorFoundation/shapeshifter-dispatcher/ Can you please map each environmental variable to the Go interface? There is not a one-to-one mapping between the environment variables and the Go interface. There are two parts to the PT implementation. There is the proxy and there are the transports. The environment variables are for configuring the proxy, which includes the information necessary to configure the transports. The Go interface is for using the transports directly in your code, without a proxy process. Therefore, only a subset of the information specified for the environment variables is required when using the Go interface, and so a one-to-one mapping is not possible. What is the UDP equivalent to PT Client Per-Connection Arguments? There is no equivalent to PT Client Per-Connection Arguments for UDP. PT 1.0 supported only one proxy mode, SOCKS5. PT 2.0 supports multiple proxy modes, but only the SOCKS5 proxy mode supports PT Client Per-Connection Arguments. This is because it is the SOCKS5 protocol that provides the channel to supply PT Client Per-Connection Arguments (through the custom authentication method). You may be wondering, how do you use a transport that requires PT Client Per-Connection Arguments in a proxy mode other than SOCKS5 (for instance, UDP). You can set them when you start the PT client using the -options command line flag. Of course, in this scenario, they will not be "per connection" as they will be the same for every connection. However, this should work fine with the current PTs. If you truly need per-connection arguments, then you are limited to SOCKS5. I hope that I have answered some of your questions. I will be at TorDev all week, so I would love to discuss some of the finer details with you at your convenience. Also, I wanted to clear up one thing that was said later in this thread. The Go transports API is not based on the obfs4proxy internal API. The very first draft was based on the obfs4proxy code and everyone agreed that this was not ideal. The current Go API specified in PT 2.0 draft 3 is based on the Go net.Conn API. following the general principle set forth in the specification document to make the transport library look as much as possible like the native socket implementation for the language. On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:16 PM, teor wrote: > > > On 21 Jun 2017, at 04:07, Brandon Wiley wrote: > > > > If you have feedback on this draft, please send me your comments by > July 20. > > Thanks for putting this together. > It looks like it's taken a lot of work to do this and the implementation. > > I seem to be missing some c
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
Hi Brandon, There's a bunch of feedback in this thread. Some of it involves relatively minor spec updates or clarifications. Other parts involve solving complex issues, and might belong in another spec (or a future version of the PT spec). Can you let us know which feedback will make it into PT 2.0? Thanks Tim > On 21 Jun 2017, at 23:00, teor wrote: > >> On 21 Jun 2017, at 16:20, Yawning Angel wrote: >> >> The "2.0" spec still doesn't have any provisions for using AF_LOCAL >> instead of the loopback interface, go figure. It's not as if I bring >> it up every time this topic comes up or anything right? > > Th exact types of addr and port are not specified, so application > could pass: > unix:/var/run/tor/obfsocket > And still remain within the spec. > > But to make this usage clear, I suggest we change: > > To: > [:] > And define addr as either an IPv4, IPv6, hostname, file path, or some > other address understood by the application / proxy. > > If we don't want to do that, please at least change it to: > : T -- Tim Wilson-Brown (teor) teor2345 at gmail dot com PGP C855 6CED 5D90 A0C5 29F6 4D43 450C BA7F 968F 094B ricochet:ekmygaiu4rzgsk6n xmpp: teor at torproject dot org signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 06:20:44AM +, Yawning Angel wrote: > On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 21:27:35 -0700 > David Fifield wrote: > > Even closely affiliated projects like Orbot haven't been able to use > > pluggable transports strictly according to the spec, because of the > > various constraints on mobile platforms. > > This is basically totally and utterly wrong. I'm sorry. I guess this bit of folk knowledge I had picked up was wrong. I thought it was somehow more complicated. I may have been confusing Android and iOS issues. ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
> On 21 Jun 2017, at 16:20, Yawning Angel wrote: > > The "2.0" spec still doesn't have any provisions for using AF_LOCAL > instead of the loopback interface, go figure. It's not as if I bring > it up every time this topic comes up or anything right? Th exact types of addr and port are not specified, so application could pass: unix:/var/run/tor/obfsocket And still remain within the spec. But to make this usage clear, I suggest we change: To: [:] And define addr as either an IPv4, IPv6, hostname, file path, or some other address understood by the application / proxy. If we don't want to do that, please at least change it to: : T -- Tim Wilson-Brown (teor) teor2345 at gmail dot com PGP C855 6CED 5D90 A0C5 29F6 4D43 450C BA7F 968F 094B ricochet:ekmygaiu4rzgsk6n xmpp: teor at torproject dot org signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 21:27:35 -0700 David Fifield wrote: > Even closely affiliated projects like Orbot haven't been able to use > pluggable transports strictly according to the spec, because of the > various constraints on mobile platforms. This is basically totally and utterly wrong. https://gitweb.torproject.org/orbot.git/tree/orbotservice/src/main/java/org/torproject/android/service/TorService.java#n1691 (The extra acrobatics are for programatically generating the config to handle the binary's install path being system dependent, which is beyond the scope of the PT spec itself.) Orbot can use normal Pluggable Transports just fine, and has at various points in time used: * obfsproxy (C) * obfsclient (C++) * obfs4proxy All basically exactly as specified by the Pluggable Transports spec. The only problem in this regard has been "Python on Android was a nightmare" which precluded the deployment of obfsproxy (Python). This has little to nothing to do with the Pluggable Transport spec itself. Perhaps you mean iOS? In which case, yeah, implementing something that's based around fork + exec, on an OS that doesn't allow that, is difficult, go figure (https://github.com/mtigas/iObfs for how it's done). > The API of the 2.0 spec is based on the internal architecture of > obfs4proxy, which is de facto the main implementation of most of > Tor's pluggable transports. I don't think that's a good idea, because the API was written by me, for me, to fit my use-cases (and I'm more and more dissatisfied with Go, to the point where all my new "for fun" code is going to be in C++ or D). But if it works for them, great I guess. I didn't use the API when I was working on basket2, so this has 0 impact on anything I will be doing, or anything that I've written. > But it failed in being "pluggable" in another sense: it's not easy to > share common transport modules beyond Tor (in either direction). It > would be great if the new spec can realize that second sense of > pluggability. I still don't understand what was so hard about implementing the old API, on anything but iOS. The "2.0" spec still doesn't have any provisions for using AF_LOCAL instead of the loopback interface, go figure. It's not as if I bring it up every time this topic comes up or anything right? Regards, -- Yawning Angel pgpAUxpskG3Pw.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
> On 21 Jun 2017, at 14:27, David Fifield wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 01:16:20PM +1000, teor wrote: >> In general, is there a separate document or proposal that describes >> how Tor will implement the relevant interfaces? There doesn't seem >> to be much on Tor-specific issues in this spec. >> >> There is one "Tor" note in the spec, maybe it should be in that >> separate document? Or maybe there should be more Tor notes in the >> spec? > > As I understand it, one of the goals of the PT 2.0 spec is to make it > easier for projects *other* than Tor to use pluggable transports. The > current spec (the 1.0 spec) basically doesn't work for anyone other than > desktop Tor-... There are also edge cases where it works badly even for desktop Tor. >> On 21 Jun 2017, at 13:16, teor wrote: >> >> I ask because we have had some issues in Tor with PT 1.0, >> because Tor Browser uses a fake IPv4 address for transports like meek. >> This interacts really badly with ReachableAddresses and similar. >> >> Any new Tor code will need to resolve this issue by using non-address >> identifiers or a defined placeholder address. >> >> We have also had bugs where tor connects to the actual bridge address >> rather than a proxy. So using a placeholder address for all PTs might >> be a good idea for security in tor. >> Tor users often configure ReachableAddresses (or similar) and expect >> pluggable transports to respect them. Is there a standard way of >> telling a transport which addresses it can't connect to? >> >> Or, alternately, is there a standard way for a transport to tell tor >> which addresses it is actually using *before* it connects to it? > If I understand correctly, Tor wouldn't have to implement glue code to > interface with the Go API. It could continue spawning subprocesses, > similar to what it does now. The executables it invokes, if they are > written in Go, will likely internally use a PT library that uses the 2.0 > spec's API, but Tor wouldn't have to know those details. I wasn't talking about interfaces, I was talking about the configs exchanged via the protocol regardless of interface. If we want to fix some of these application issues, we need to make sure the protocol provides the means to do so. Regardless of how tor interfaces or updates its PT interface. > PT 1.0 succeeded in being "pluggable" in one sense: it's easy to hotswap > a lot of circumvention technologies within Tor. But it failed in being > "pluggable" in another sense: it's not easy to share common transport > modules beyond Tor (in either direction). It would be great if the new > spec can realize that second sense of pluggability. It would be great if this new spec could also fix some of the issues around transport addresses, regardless of the application using it. Or, we could rule those issues explicitly out of scope, essentially pushing them onto each individual transport and application to deal with in a custom manner. (Or, more likely, to ignore.) For example: >> The client protocol is missing a standard way to configure: >> * a local bind address >> * a remote server address >> * other common PT info >> >> Is this intentional? >> If so, do we really want each transport defining its own slightly >> different JSON keys for common items like addresses? >> Even worse, what if they format addresses inconsistently? T -- Tim Wilson-Brown (teor) teor2345 at gmail dot com PGP C855 6CED 5D90 A0C5 29F6 4D43 450C BA7F 968F 094B ricochet:ekmygaiu4rzgsk6n xmpp: teor at torproject dot org signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 01:16:20PM +1000, teor wrote: > In general, is there a separate document or proposal that describes > how Tor will implement the relevant interfaces? There doesn't seem > to be much on Tor-specific issues in this spec. > > There is one "Tor" note in the spec, maybe it should be in that > separate document? Or maybe there should be more Tor notes in the > spec? As I understand it, one of the goals of the PT 2.0 spec is to make it easier for projects *other* than Tor to use pluggable transports. The current spec (the 1.0 spec) basically doesn't work for anyone other than desktop Tor--this is something we've heard over and over from other projects that use circumvention, and Brandon is well plugged in to those conversations. Even closely affiliated projects like Orbot haven't been able to use pluggable transports strictly according to the spec, because of the various constraints on mobile platforms. What various circumvention developers have said they prefer, is a Go-based API. They would rather link against a library, than do the whole subprocess-and-stdout thing that the PT 1.0 spec requires. That's the reason for introducing the new Go stuff in the 2.0 spec. Inside and outside Tor, a lot of projects have converged on implementing their circumvention code in Go. The API of the 2.0 spec is based on the internal architecture of obfs4proxy, which is de facto the main implementation of most of Tor's pluggable transports. If I understand correctly, Tor wouldn't have to implement glue code to interface with the Go API. It could continue spawning subprocesses, similar to what it does now. The executables it invokes, if they are written in Go, will likely internally use a PT library that uses the 2.0 spec's API, but Tor wouldn't have to know those details. PT 1.0 succeeded in being "pluggable" in one sense: it's easy to hotswap a lot of circumvention technologies within Tor. But it failed in being "pluggable" in another sense: it's not easy to share common transport modules beyond Tor (in either direction). It would be great if the new spec can realize that second sense of pluggability. ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
> On 21 Jun 2017, at 04:07, Brandon Wiley wrote: > > If you have feedback on this draft, please send me your comments by July 20. Thanks for putting this together. It looks like it's taken a lot of work to do this and the implementation. I seem to be missing some context: What is the goal of writing this specification? I'm going to assume you want to implement parts in tor and parts in Go. Here is my feedback: In general, have you searched tor trac for PT protocol bugs, and made sure this spec doesn't suffer from the same issues? In general, is there a separate document or proposal that describes how Tor will implement the relevant interfaces? There doesn't seem to be much on Tor-specific issues in this spec. There is one "Tor" note in the spec, maybe it should be in that separate document? Or maybe there should be more Tor notes in the spec? 3.1. Pluggable Transport Naming How are unique names coordinated? When is a PT a different version of an older transport with the same name? When does a PT need a new name? 3.2.1. Goals for interface design Definitions: The destination address (and many other terms) aren't defined anywhere. Are they IPv4, IPv6, DNS, or protocol-specific? If they are not just IPv4 addresses, please give examples with other address types. Maybe section 3.3.5.1 defines some of these terms? 3.3.1 Pluggable Transport Configuration Parameters Optional Addresses: Since the address is optional, what value is used when it is not required by the transport? It looks mandatory in the Go interface, but isn't mandatory in the environmental variables. Can you please map each environmental variable to the Go interface? I ask because we have had some issues in Tor with PT 1.0, because Tor Browser uses a fake IPv4 address for transports like meek. This interacts really badly with ReachableAddresses and similar. Any new Tor code will need to resolve this issue by using non-address identifiers or a defined placeholder address. We have also had bugs where tor connects to the actual bridge address rather than a proxy. So using a placeholder address for all PTs might be a good idea for security in tor. Multiple Addresses: If there are multiple addresses, are these separate instances of the transport, or can one transport have multiple connections? Does this differ between the client and the server? For example, the same bridge can have an IPv4 and IPv6 address. Or two different bridges can use the same PT. How is this handled in tor and in Go? (It's specified that each PT has zero or one addresses, but there isn't anything explicit about using multiple addresses.) Banned Addresses: Tor users often configure ReachableAddresses (or similar) and expect pluggable transports to respect them. Is there a standard way of telling a transport which addresses it can't connect to? Or, alternately, is there a standard way for a transport to tell tor which addresses it is actually using *before* it connects to it? Client Addresses: The client protocol is missing a standard way to configure: * a local bind address * a remote server address * other common PT info Is this intentional? If so, do we really want each transport defining its own slightly different JSON keys for common items like addresses? Even worse, what if they format addresses inconsistently? This will be difficult to implement in applications if it is not standardised. I suggest we make the server address an environmental variable. 3.3.1.4 Command Line Flags How is an environmental variable name turned into a command-line flag? Or are the command-line flags different for each transport? (Let's not do that, it would be annoying.) You give examples, but some have typos: obfs4proxy -state =/var/lib/tor/pt_state/ obfs4proxy - transports obfs3,scramblesuit Obfs4proxy -options scramblesuit:key=banana;automata:rule=110;automata:depth=3 3.3.2. Pluggable Transport To Parent Process Communication What is the correct IPv6 address quoting for CMETHOD and SMETHOD? Please give an example in the text. "Equal signs and commas MUST be escaped with a backslash." This is unclear: equals signs and commas in Key and Value? What about colons or backslashes? (Otherwise, it is impossible to end a value with a backslash.) Must Key be an identifier? What's the format? Why not just use an existing escaping scheme? "Tor: The ARGS are included in the transport line of the Bridge's extra-info document." Really? This seems insecure. Do we publish bridge extra-infos anywhere? 3.3.5 UDP Support The TOC breaks here. 3.3.5.1 Obfuscating Proxy Architecture This section belongs at the top of the document. 3.3.5.2. Configuring the Transports There are no details for how this works over UDP: what is the UDP equivalent to Pluggable PT Client Per-Connection Arguments, and do TCP implementations have to support that environmental variable as well? I suggest we standardise it as an environmental variable and command-line flag, and make all tran
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
Thanks for the feedback. I'll fix this in the next draft. On Jun 20, 2017 6:07 PM, "Yawning Angel" wrote: > On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:07:39 -0400 > Brandon Wiley wrote: > > > Attached is the second draft of the Pluggable Transport 2.0 > > Specification. If you have feedback on this draft, please send me > > your comments by July 20. > > I'll raise this because it bothers me, but maybe the other people who > drafted the original document don't care as much as I do. I find > the attribution in the acknowledgments section entirely inadequate. I > explicitly credited all previous authors when I last rewrote the > specification for a reason. > > Regards, > > -- > Yawning Angel > > ___ > tor-dev mailing list > tor-dev@lists.torproject.org > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev > > ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:07:39 -0400 Brandon Wiley wrote: > Attached is the second draft of the Pluggable Transport 2.0 > Specification. If you have feedback on this draft, please send me > your comments by July 20. I'll raise this because it bothers me, but maybe the other people who drafted the original document don't care as much as I do. I find the attribution in the acknowledgments section entirely inadequate. I explicitly credited all previous authors when I last rewrote the specification for a reason. Regards, -- Yawning Angel pgpgdLflv6ASe.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
Re: [tor-dev] Pluggable Transports 2.0 Specification, Draft 2
Changelog from Draft 1 ● Renamed version flag to ptversion to avoid naming conflict with goptlib ● Modified Go examples to use correct Go syntax ● Renamed pt module in Go examples to base to avoid naming conflict with goptlib ● Reworded introduction ● Clarified Go examples with more details on how to implement a transport in Go ● Removed unused Javascript and Python APIs ● Removed SSH transport example ● Standardized use of Transports API and Dispatcher IPC language throughout ● Added length to per-connection parameter encoding On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Brandon Wiley wrote: > Attached is the second draft of the Pluggable Transport 2.0 Specification. > If you have feedback on this draft, please send me your comments by July 20. > ___ tor-dev mailing list tor-dev@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev
