Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-22 Thread Petrusko 
Sometimes it can because of a bad/cheap power supply... Not the ARM-Pi
or the OS :s

> Hi, used to run a Banana PI with Debian as a TOR Relay. This is not 
> recommendable since the system froze after a while. Although this could just 
> be my system that is unstable. 
>
> but from my experience I can not recommend it. 

-- 
Petrusko
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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-22 Thread Michael Andersen 
Torsdag den 18. august 2016 12:35:11 skrev Zack Weinberg:
> Has anyone had any experience running *exit* nodes on Raspberry Pi-grade
> hardware, or slightly beefier?  We are thinking of replacing the old,
> bulky, power-hungry machine currently running exit
> 78C7C299DB4C4BD119A22B87B57D5AF5F3741A79 with something on that level.
> It only has to hit 10Mbps.
> 
> thanks,
> zw
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Hi, used to run a Banana PI with Debian as a TOR Relay. This is not 
recommendable since the system froze after a while. Although this could just 
be my system that is unstable. 

but from my experience I can not recommend it. 
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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-21 Thread Jesse V 
On 08/18/2016 01:50 PM, Michael McConville wrote:
> Michael McConville wrote:
>> Roman Mamedov wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:40:00 -0600
>>> Michael McConville  wrote:
>>> Raspberry Pi 3 should do fine, not to mention some of the more
>>> powerful boards -- there are now up to 8-core, up to 1.7 GHz ones.
>>> Even though the core number won't help you too much, you shouldn't
>>> underestimate what a modern 64-bit ARM can do. Especially if the
>>> task at hand is mere 10 Mbps.
>>
>> I'd be happy to be proven wrong. However, remember that while 10 Mbps
>> doesn't sound like a lot, it can imply 7,000+ open connections. That
>> can stress the kernel and the CPU cache.
> 
> I forgot to mention all the crypto required, too. These boards don't
> have crypto accelerators, so that's a big cost.

That is a good point. I don't have any performance numbers on me, but
you should at least compare the specs of the Pi 3, the BeagleBone Black,
and some of the ODroid series to see if any of them can do the job. I've
seen all of those devices put into mission-critical roles, so they may
have a possibility of standing up to the job. If not, a low-end old
laptop will have AES acceleration. Something to consider.

-- 
Jesse V



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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Michael McConville 
Yawning Angel wrote:
> Michael McConville  wrote:
> > I forgot to mention all the crypto required, too. These boards don't
> > have crypto accelerators, so that's a big cost.
> 
> What?

I forgot to mention all the crypto required, too. These boards don't
have crypto accelerators, so that's a big cost.

> ARMv8-A has hardware accelerated SHA(1/2), AES, and a carry-less
> multiply.  As far as I am aware this still requires using OpenSSL
> 1.1.x (currently beta), and I don't remember off the top of my head if
> the code necessary to use newer OpenSSL was backported to pre 0.2.9.x.

Interesting, I didn't know that. However, because only very new boards
support ARMv8 and because stable OpenSSL releases don't yet support its
AES extension, it seems that crypto speed remains a problem for now.

Best,
Mike
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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Yawning Angel 
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:50:33 -0600
Michael McConville  wrote:
> I forgot to mention all the crypto required, too. These boards don't
> have crypto accelerators, so that's a big cost.

What? ARMv8-A has hardware accelerated SHA(1/2), AES, and a carry-less
multiply.  As far as I am aware this still requires using OpenSSL 1.1.x
(currently beta), and I don't remember off the top of my head if the
code necessary to use newer OpenSSL was backported to pre 0.2.9.x.

Regards,

-- 
Yawning Angel


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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Michael McConville 
Michael McConville wrote:
> Roman Mamedov wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:40:00 -0600
> > Michael McConville  wrote:
> > 
> > > Zack Weinberg wrote:
> > > > Has anyone had any experience running *exit* nodes on Raspberry
> > > > Pi-grade hardware, or slightly beefier?  We are thinking of
> > > > replacing the old, bulky, power-hungry machine currently running
> > > > exit 78C7C299DB4C4BD119A22B87B57D5AF5F3741A79 with something on
> > > > that level. It only has to hit 10Mbps.
> > > 
> > > There's only one way to find out, but I suspect an RPi would be
> > > too weak for the job. Exits use more CPU because they manage far
> > > more TCP/UDP connections than a non-exit relay. I've seen
> > > significant CPU usage (maybe even CPU saturation) on a cheap Intel
> > > Core Duo moving about 3-5 MB/s.
> > 
> > Raspberry Pi 3 should do fine, not to mention some of the more
> > powerful boards -- there are now up to 8-core, up to 1.7 GHz ones.
> > Even though the core number won't help you too much, you shouldn't
> > underestimate what a modern 64-bit ARM can do. Especially if the
> > task at hand is mere 10 Mbps.
> 
> I'd be happy to be proven wrong. However, remember that while 10 Mbps
> doesn't sound like a lot, it can imply 7,000+ open connections. That
> can stress the kernel and the CPU cache.

I forgot to mention all the crypto required, too. These boards don't
have crypto accelerators, so that's a big cost.
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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Michael McConville 
Roman Mamedov wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:40:00 -0600
> Michael McConville  wrote:
> 
> > Zack Weinberg wrote:
> > > Has anyone had any experience running *exit* nodes on Raspberry
> > > Pi-grade hardware, or slightly beefier?  We are thinking of
> > > replacing the old, bulky, power-hungry machine currently running
> > > exit 78C7C299DB4C4BD119A22B87B57D5AF5F3741A79 with something on
> > > that level. It only has to hit 10Mbps.
> > 
> > There's only one way to find out, but I suspect an RPi would be too
> > weak for the job. Exits use more CPU because they manage far more
> > TCP/UDP connections than a non-exit relay. I've seen significant CPU
> > usage (maybe even CPU saturation) on a cheap Intel Core Duo moving
> > about 3-5 MB/s.
> 
> Raspberry Pi 3 should do fine, not to mention some of the more
> powerful boards -- there are now up to 8-core, up to 1.7 GHz ones.
> Even though the core number won't help you too much, you shouldn't
> underestimate what a modern 64-bit ARM can do. Especially if the task
> at hand is mere 10 Mbps.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong. However, remember that while 10 Mbps
doesn't sound like a lot, it can imply 7,000+ open connections. That can
stress the kernel and the CPU cache.
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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Tristan 
I think you mean "if" it goes live. That ticket has been open for 4 years,
and originally had a milestone for 0.2.4.

On Aug 18, 2016 12:36 PM, "Pi3"  wrote:

> Im running 5 Mbits mid node on Pi3. Cpu load is 25-30% on 1 core with full
> steady traffic - no aes-ni here.
> Things should improve greatly when this ticket will go live in 0.2.9.x
> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/7572
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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Pi3 
Im running 5 Mbits mid node on Pi3. Cpu load is 25-30% on 1 core with full 
steady traffic - no aes-ni here. 
Things should improve greatly when this ticket will go live in 0.2.9.x
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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Roman Mamedov 
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:40:00 -0600
Michael McConville  wrote:

> Zack Weinberg wrote:
> > Has anyone had any experience running *exit* nodes on Raspberry
> > Pi-grade hardware, or slightly beefier?  We are thinking of replacing
> > the old, bulky, power-hungry machine currently running exit
> > 78C7C299DB4C4BD119A22B87B57D5AF5F3741A79 with something on that level.
> > It only has to hit 10Mbps.
> 
> There's only one way to find out, but I suspect an RPi would be too weak
> for the job. Exits use more CPU because they manage far more TCP/UDP
> connections than a non-exit relay. I've seen significant CPU usage
> (maybe even CPU saturation) on a cheap Intel Core Duo moving about 3-5
> MB/s.

Raspberry Pi 3 should do fine, not to mention some of the more powerful
boards -- there are now up to 8-core, up to 1.7 GHz ones. Even though the core
number won't help you too much, you shouldn't underestimate what a modern
64-bit ARM can do. Especially if the task at hand is mere 10 Mbps.

-- 
With respect,
Roman


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[tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Zack Weinberg 
Has anyone had any experience running *exit* nodes on Raspberry Pi-grade
hardware, or slightly beefier?  We are thinking of replacing the old,
bulky, power-hungry machine currently running exit
78C7C299DB4C4BD119A22B87B57D5AF5F3741A79 with something on that level.
It only has to hit 10Mbps.

thanks,
zw
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Re: [tor-relays] Tiny computers (RPi-like) for exit nodes?

2016-08-18 Thread Michael McConville 
Zack Weinberg wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience running *exit* nodes on Raspberry
> Pi-grade hardware, or slightly beefier?  We are thinking of replacing
> the old, bulky, power-hungry machine currently running exit
> 78C7C299DB4C4BD119A22B87B57D5AF5F3741A79 with something on that level.
> It only has to hit 10Mbps.

There's only one way to find out, but I suspect an RPi would be too weak
for the job. Exits use more CPU because they manage far more TCP/UDP
connections than a non-exit relay. I've seen significant CPU usage
(maybe even CPU saturation) on a cheap Intel Core Duo moving about 3-5
MB/s.

Best,
Mike
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