Re: [tor-talk] Is it going to extradite Jacob to usa?

[Adrian Crenshaw]

The Fembots/Himbots collective has been formed and will change the way
of the world as we know it.

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 1:04 AM, Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:
> On Jun 8, 2016 9:41 PM,  wroce:
>
>>> Maybe it is a good advice to ask which citizenship the sex partner is
> and in which country to have sex considering later allegations. or to do a
> contract beforehand...
>
> I am writing some legal contracts to use before _and_ after any sexual
> intercourse.  Suggestions of legal terms for avoiding a future public
> lynching and being harrassed by hypocrite governments  (all of them!),
> please?  :-)
>
> After reading all these stories of "victims", I am almost giving up of sex
> forever, aff...  Crazy people, citizen origin of partners, diseases,
> pregnancy and public lynching in hacker communities and media...  Sex is a
> too much dangerous and stressing thing nowadays!!  :((
>
> In any case, I think to keep some contracts already ready for use always
> will be interesting, haha!!  I am almost writing also a "satisfaction
> survey" just to avoid some process for "few orgasms" or another bizarre
> situation, haha!!  ;D
>
> "Oh, Cecilia, you made me feel bad about myself because, ten years ago, you
> didn't scream of pleasure loudly enough for all the neighbourhood knows
> that I am a good lover!  Now I have several traums because of it and I will
> destroy your whole life and say in all hacker communities that you are
> colder than Russian Winter!"  :(((
>
> This kind of perspective is not sexy at all, uff...  :(((
>
> Not sexual and not romantical kisses for you all!  Have a lovely night and
> sweet dreams!  :*
>
> Cecilia, cecilying a bit instead answering to serious messages...  ;)
>
> Sorry, after being strongly kicked for some "friends" just for believing
> that Jake is innocent, I do need some fun with extreme urgency, ugh!
> Creepy people always are disgusting!  :P
>
> At least, I never loved so much my ex-partners.  Sane cute ex-boyfriends
> are a rare thing nowadays and I was pretty lucky, yay!!!  ;D
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Re: [tor-talk] Is it going to extradite Jacob to usa?

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Jun 8, 2016 9:41 PM,  wroce:

>> Maybe it is a good advice to ask which citizenship the sex partner is
and in which country to have sex considering later allegations. or to do a
contract beforehand...

I am writing some legal contracts to use before _and_ after any sexual
intercourse.  Suggestions of legal terms for avoiding a future public
lynching and being harrassed by hypocrite governments  (all of them!),
please?  :-)

After reading all these stories of "victims", I am almost giving up of sex
forever, aff...  Crazy people, citizen origin of partners, diseases,
pregnancy and public lynching in hacker communities and media...  Sex is a
too much dangerous and stressing thing nowadays!!  :((

In any case, I think to keep some contracts already ready for use always
will be interesting, haha!!  I am almost writing also a "satisfaction
survey" just to avoid some process for "few orgasms" or another bizarre
situation, haha!!  ;D

"Oh, Cecilia, you made me feel bad about myself because, ten years ago, you
didn't scream of pleasure loudly enough for all the neighbourhood knows
that I am a good lover!  Now I have several traums because of it and I will
destroy your whole life and say in all hacker communities that you are
colder than Russian Winter!"  :(((

This kind of perspective is not sexy at all, uff...  :(((

Not sexual and not romantical kisses for you all!  Have a lovely night and
sweet dreams!  :*

Cecilia, cecilying a bit instead answering to serious messages...  ;)

Sorry, after being strongly kicked for some "friends" just for believing
that Jake is innocent, I do need some fun with extreme urgency, ugh!
Creepy people always are disgusting!  :P

At least, I never loved so much my ex-partners.  Sane cute ex-boyfriends
are a rare thing nowadays and I was pretty lucky, yay!!!  ;D
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[tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets

[grarpamp]

First come the clearnet indexes...

# kickass torrents
http://lsuzvpko6w6hzpnn.onion/
# the pirate bay
http://uj3wazyk5u4hnvtk.onion/
# rutor
http://rutorc6mqdinc4cz.onion/
# btdigg
http://btdigg63cdjmmmqj.onion/
# torrents md
http://tmdwwwebwyuuqepd.onion/
# demonoid
http://demonhkzoijsvvui.onion/

# Putting the "Tor" back in Torrent
https://gist.github.com/obvio171/addb26214a8c159f84a8
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8022341

# For DHT, PEX, UDP
https://www.onioncat.org/

Just a teaser of what's already out there...
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Re: [tor-talk] Freedom of the Press Foundation - Statement on Jacob Appelbaum

[Александр]

>
> https://freedom.press/blog/2016/06/statement-jacob-appelbaum
> In light of the allegations that have been made, Jacob Appelbaum is no
> longer a member of our outside volunteer technical advisory board. We hope
> that the serious accusations made against him, and his denial of them, are
> resolved as fairly and as expeditiously as possible
>

yeah. and in the meantime, we will treat Appelbaum as if he IS ALREADY
convicted as if he IS ALREADY a serial rapist -> and throw him from his
position = reject him from our community, this way showing everybody our
"neutrality/objectivity" (not talking about showing Appelbaum himself, a
respectful member, some kind of "support", before proven otherwise!)

Yeap, lets show one more time that a man can work all his life to build his
reputation and to help the world in so many ways... and some f*ckers can
ruin it in one week, by creating an amateur smear campaign with anonymous
and saaad stories.

Well done, puppets.
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[tor-talk] The EU does it again

[aaa]

EU Exploring Idea of Using Government ID Cards As Mandatory Online 
Logins

https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/06/08/2139254/eu-exploring-idea-of-using-government-id-cards-as-mandatory-online-logins

Currently laughing my ass off at all those privacy advocates who went to 
go live in Germany because they thought things were better there.

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Re: [tor-talk] Jacob Appelbaum Has Allegedly Engaged in Sexual Misconduct for Over a Decade

[Cecilia Tanaka]

Nah, please, I am not an "amazing person" and I don't have this kind of
pretension.  Never had or will have, I swear.

I am just a pretty boring talkative nerd and I am trying to kill ja.talk
group with boredom and sad stories from my past, haha!!  ;D

Oh, please, ja.talk group, it was *not* serious.  Don't create a site
saying that I want to kill you all, because I don't kill any animal and if
I decide to eat meat again, I will eat bacon.  Not Kevin Bacon, just the
poor smoked and salted pigs!  Better explain it with more details or they
will publish that I a pervert trying to rape an old actor!  :(((

If my whole life was a complete disaster and I am living without trying to
explode the whole world in revenge, why the f*ck they just can't get a
life?  I really like to live and let live.

Even brutal storms have own beauty.  I prefer deep, infinite blue skies,
but I love rainy days too.  It is easier to live loving little tender joys
and your own life...  :-)

Tender kisses, my dear.  Believe me, I am just pretty fool, not an "amazing
person" at all.  Take care!  :*

Cecilia
On Jun 8, 2016 10:55 PM, "Zenaan Harkness"  wrote:

> Cecilia, you are an amazing person, to transform the experiences you have
> had and to be able to come to this conversation with the love and
> gentleness - this brings a tear to my eye.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Truly, you are an inspiration,
> Zenaan
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 08:58:49PM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > My dear ja.talk,
> >
> > The most sad about this kind of stories of abuse and rape is having
> > absolute conviction that some of Jake's "victims" are much more pervert,
> > rapist and hypocrite than Jake, me and great part of people here.
> ...
> much heartfelt sharing and insight from Cecilia,
> well worth reading if you aint done so yet
> ...
> --
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>
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Re: [tor-talk] What can u code in 2 days ?

[Ansley Dunbar]

Oh you know, just your run-of-the mill program created during a 48-hr
time-frame, no big deal.

Well done, Flipchan, this looks cool- I look forward to checking it out.
Thanks for sharing!


On 6/8/16 17:40, Flipchan wrote:
> I wanted to challenge myself to 100% so i coded a blogging platform in 2 days 
> (rushed it after my regular work)  the css and style sucks but i spent most 
> time on the sec and simular stuff i ended up with:
> https://github.com/flipchan/blogger
>
> 2factor pgp auth, btc address gen and ofc anti csrf and password hashing ^^ 
>
> Was fun to work so intense with something due to the short period of time i 
> had Building this . Anyhow would recommend to do something simular ofc it 
> will turn out with alot of holes but its a fun Project to do, and also a 
> break from all the talk about Jacob ,take care and have a nice day


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Re: [tor-talk] Sorry Jake I know you are innocent

[ja.talk]

Like I said: I am a asshole.

Just making a bunch of shit up and putting it here.

I do not like Jake and that is it.

List admin can you block me please?  I am an out of control loser with a
lot of time on my hands.


Kevin:
> Why would you even joke about this situation?
>
>
> On 6/8/2016 7:13 PM, ja.t...@eugeni.torproject.org wrote:
>> Hey guys I am just making all this stuff up, sorry for being such a
>> stuipd asshole!
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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Re: [tor-talk] Jacob Appelbaum Has Allegedly Engaged in Sexual Misconduct for Over a Decade

[Zenaan Harkness]

Cecilia, you are an amazing person, to transform the experiences you have
had and to be able to come to this conversation with the love and
gentleness - this brings a tear to my eye.

Thank you.

Truly, you are an inspiration,
Zenaan


On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 08:58:49PM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> My dear ja.talk,
> 
> The most sad about this kind of stories of abuse and rape is having
> absolute conviction that some of Jake's "victims" are much more pervert,
> rapist and hypocrite than Jake, me and great part of people here.
...
much heartfelt sharing and insight from Cecilia,
well worth reading if you aint done so yet
...
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Re: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 05:32:31PM +0200, carlo von lynX wrote:
> > Fistly, identify if someone is being bullied, and second, if the target of
> > the bully appears strong enough to handle the "bully".
> 
> Even if the target is strong enough, the constellation will still cause
> damage I believe.

In this world, you're stuck with humans, as you find them/ as they present
themselves to you. You can't get around this little thing called
reality...

> > If not, or if you are unsure, talk with the targetted one offlist and
> > check in to see if they're ok or would like any offlist ear to talk to.
> 
> That is a possible way a vibes watcher could go about it, but I would
> rather intercept any aggressive postings to appear in the original form,
> but rather send them back to the writer asking to clear up some aspects
> that may be misunderstandable or in plain disregard of the code of conduct.
> In the scenario I described earlier either I should have received a mail,
> explaining how my mail had a potential of being misunderstood and needed
> rephrasing, or the reply that attacked me as a reasonable human being 
> shouldn't have seen the light.

I agree with you. Some say "naming and shaming" is the way - I say naming
bad behaviour, publicly, is not shaming.

Naming simply says "Hang on, that's threatening, are you serious or
letting your words preceed you?" or "That's agressive and likely hurtful
communication, do you care to rephrase or retract?"

These types of public naming are very good, often useful, and I do
recommend them - should be on the list of standard possible responses I
agree.

> Unfortunately the work of vibes watching moderators is frequently confused
> with censorship, but that goes back to the fallacious understanding of
> freedom of expression that I mentioned in previous postings and which is
> also addressed in convivenza.

For those who care, I think this discussion you are spearheading is very
good.

In any particular "community", if there's not at least one other person
who 'cares', my default suggestion is move on, find another group.


> > For the one who is conscientious, such communication comes naturally and
> > hopefully contributes to a stronger, all around warmer community.
> > 
> > Those who just love to go at it hammer and tong at each other, well,
> > perhaps sit back and enjoy the view, and if the view is too personally
> > distressing to you, consider Ye Goode Olde Kille File - it's not that
> 
> Just a few mails ago I listed a bunch of links that elaborate how the
> "Don't Feed The Troll" maxime is fundamentally flawed and punishes the
> victims while letting the troll achieve their political aims.

I agree with you, and in hindsight I can see I failed to state the pathway
of naming the "bad behaviour" publicly - just make sure to not get sucked
in to your own ad-hom or other emotional type attacks, because then its
all over, you're in the gutter and no better than the purported bully.


> > hard to change the view. I personally find it difficult to restrain myself
> > from leaping into the fray on one side, then the other, rather than simply
> > sit back and enjoy the view. I personally really enjoy it when individuals
> 
> That is natural, and it is sociologically a losing game.

I completely disagree. It's only a losing game when one of the individuals
involved is repressed. When all parties are not in the slightest repressed
by the vehemence, vitriol or other intesity of the 'conversation', then
the conversation is great entertainment.

Neither you, SJWs, nor anyone, will ever convince me otherwise. There are
actually people in this world who will take verbal blows from any and all,
in order to learn how to joust, in order to cut to the chase, in order to
(try to) identify bullshit as quickly as humanly possible.

It's a very useful skill to be able to go hammer and tong for a few
rounds, then turn around in the few minutes and discuss technical details
of some computer program - with the same person. That's liberating. That's
a sign of being able to handle your emotions.

Sure, some people, perhaps most, are not there yet. And warm cosy
comfortable 'communities' are just what the doctor ordered for those who
are unwilling to stretch such personal boundaries.


> Systems need to
> be designed around humans *as they are*, not try to change the behaviour
> of all involved humans, then find out it doesn't work.

I heartily agree - and some people enjoy "vigorous" communication, they
consider vigorous communication not only "does work", but "works very
well, thank you very much, and by god I'll verbally crucify you should
dare to take my entertainment away from me".

And we have these incredible devices called computers and programs where
with the click of a few buttons, a whole new forum with rules, moderators,
mechanisms for joining and giving the boot etc can be had. That's amazing.
Anyone can create whatever genre of online "community" they think will
save the 

Re: [tor-talk] Sorry Jake I know you are innocent

[Cecilia Tanaka]

Oh, Mirimir...  Sorry, I was so happy...  Meh!  :(((

Don't care so much about me, my dear.  If I am not wrong, at least, one
person using that account already know me in person and has all my personal
contacts.

Well, in next life, if it really exists, I will close better my mouth, my
legs and my heart, haha!!  ;)
On Jun 8, 2016 9:35 PM, "Mirimir"  wrote:

> On 06/08/2016 06:23 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > Wow!  A personal answer, not just a "copy and paste"!  :D
> >
> > Please, read the other thread and, if possible, answer me in a polite
> way.
> > Remember:  my mother is not a b...  and never was and I am a pretty
> person,
> > even when some of your friends call me "sociopath"!  :-)
> >
> > I don't want censorship.  I just want the truth.  Show me the code, my
> > dear.  Talking is too cheap.  :-)
> >
> > <3
>
> This is the same person who was using  to
> make fun of . They're spoofing the "From" header.
> Check out message sources, and you'll see. If you care about such
> things, maybe start signing messages :)
>
> > On Jun 8, 2016 9:11 PM, "ja.talk"  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Like I said: I am a asshole.
> >>
> >> Just making a bunch of shit up and putting it here.
> >>
> >> I do not like Jake and that is it.
> >>
> >> List admin can you block me please?  I am an out of control loser with a
> >> lot of time on my hands.
> --
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> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
>
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[tor-talk] Is it going to extradite Jacob to usa?

[tor_talk]

Hi Tor Talkers,

i just want to shorten the way it goes with all the postings around these false 
or just not proper worded allegations or just not being excellent.

if all the allegations (i mean all i have read till now incl. the S things) 
come true Jacob could face at least a  minimum of three or five years as jail 
sentence in Germany. that means he will be in jail for three years or more 
(nicht unter drei Jahren =  not less than three years).

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__177.html
Strafgesetzbuch (StGB)
§ 177 Sexuelle Nötigung; Vergewaltigung
(3) Auf Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter drei Jahren ist zu erkennen, wenn der Täter
1.eine Waffe oder ein anderes gefährliches Werkzeug bei sich führt,
2.sonst ein Werkzeug oder Mittel bei sich führt, um den Widerstand einer 
anderen Person durch Gewalt oder Drohung mit Gewalt zu verhindern oder zu 
überwinden, oder
3.das Opfer durch die Tat in die Gefahr einer schweren 
Gesundheitsschädigung bringt.

(4) Auf Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter fünf Jahren ist zu erkennen, wenn der Täter
1.bei der Tat eine Waffe oder ein anderes gefährliches Werkzeug verwendet 
oder
2.das Opfer
a)bei der Tat körperlich schwer mißhandelt oder
b)durch die Tat in die Gefahr des Todes bringt.

Gefahr des Todes = death danger = "intoxicated" without being a med => triggers 
Dangerous Drugs Act, too, btw

because of that long term jail sentence and if Jacob is still no German citizen 
there could be an extradition/a deportation to the usa - his last citizenship. 
and even if parts of the community is about to torch and fork him like a mob 
who doesn't have heard a single complain although it is said it's going on 
since a decade and some of it happens right in front of even security guards at 
CCC and other conferences - i don't think the big part of that small community 
will see him deported to usa.

if you want to change a system the last thing you should do is to support it to 
last longer. so please watch what you testify even in rage/revenge modus. it 
wouldn't be my worst guess to say it is the fbi who wants Jacob at the end of 
the day in the usa. if i had to guess they want Lovecruft (Tor developer) on 
their side going after Jacob. they let her leave usa for a chance Jacob has 
sexual interest in her. that would have done the job the same way if they 
talked to her in usa.

it is an long term operation similar to Julian Assange. and if Assange didn't 
walked into the embassy we would not have ever known that the sexual things 
were a set up.

Maybe it is a good advice to ask which citizenship the sex partner is and in 
which country to have sex considering later allegations. or to do a contract 
beforehand...
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Re: [tor-talk] Sorry Jake I know you are innocent

[Mirimir]

On 06/08/2016 06:23 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> Wow!  A personal answer, not just a "copy and paste"!  :D
> 
> Please, read the other thread and, if possible, answer me in a polite way.
> Remember:  my mother is not a b...  and never was and I am a pretty person,
> even when some of your friends call me "sociopath"!  :-)
> 
> I don't want censorship.  I just want the truth.  Show me the code, my
> dear.  Talking is too cheap.  :-)
> 
> <3

This is the same person who was using  to
make fun of . They're spoofing the "From" header.
Check out message sources, and you'll see. If you care about such
things, maybe start signing messages :)

> On Jun 8, 2016 9:11 PM, "ja.talk"  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Like I said: I am a asshole.
>>
>> Just making a bunch of shit up and putting it here.
>>
>> I do not like Jake and that is it.
>>
>> List admin can you block me please?  I am an out of control loser with a
>> lot of time on my hands.
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Re: [tor-talk] Sorry Jake I know you are innocent

[Mirimir]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 06/08/2016 06:10 PM, ja.talk wrote:
> 
> Like I said: I am a asshole.
> 
> Just making a bunch of shit up and putting it here.
> 
> I do not like Jake and that is it.
> 
> List admin can you block me please?  I am an out of control loser
> with a lot of time on my hands.

For sure, dude ;)

You know how to spoof email headers, I see :)

But be careful about those path IPs. Just sayin'.

OK, so I'm going to start signing my posts ;)

> Kevin:
>> Why would you even joke about this situation?
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/8/2016 7:13 PM, ja.t...@eugeni.torproject.org wrote:
>>> Hey guys I am just making all this stuff up, sorry for being
>>> such a stuipd asshole!
>> 
>> 
>> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>> software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Re: [tor-talk] Sorry Jake I know you are innocent

[Cecilia Tanaka]

Wow!  A personal answer, not just a "copy and paste"!  :D

Please, read the other thread and, if possible, answer me in a polite way.
Remember:  my mother is not a b...  and never was and I am a pretty person,
even when some of your friends call me "sociopath"!  :-)

I don't want censorship.  I just want the truth.  Show me the code, my
dear.  Talking is too cheap.  :-)

<3

On Jun 8, 2016 9:11 PM, "ja.talk"  wrote:
>
>
> Like I said: I am a asshole.
>
> Just making a bunch of shit up and putting it here.
>
> I do not like Jake and that is it.
>
> List admin can you block me please?  I am an out of control loser with a
> lot of time on my hands.
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[tor-talk] Freedom of the Press Foundation - Statement on Jacob Appelbaum

[ja . talk]

https://freedom.press/blog/2016/06/statement-jacob-appelbaum

Statement on Jacob Appelbaum

June 8, 2016

Trevor Timm 

In light of the allegations that have been made, Jacob Appelbaum is no longer a 
member of our outside volunteer technical advisory board. We hope that the 
serious accusations made against him, and his denial of them, are resolved as 
fairly and as expeditiously as possible.
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Re: [tor-talk] Jacob Appelbaum Has Allegedly Engaged in Sexual Misconduct for Over a Decade

[ja . talk]

https://hypatia.ca/2016/06/07/he-said-they-said/

Leigh Honeywell

June 7, 2016

He said, they said

Content note for discussion of sexual violence.

"The problem with "open secrets" is that they are never open enough to keep 
people safe :("

A number of people are now coming forward with details of the long record of 
sexual misconduct committed by Jacob Appelbaum. The stories I have read are 
entirely consistent with my own experiences being sexually involved with Jacob 
in 2006-2007.

I am writing this under my real name because I am fortunate enough to be able 
to afford to. I am lucky to have a stable economic and immigration situation, 
and I am not close enough to Jacob’s world to be in any way dependent on his 
opinion of me, or on the opinions of people who might support him. I know 
that’s not true for everybody, and I recognize that many of the people speaking 
up about Jacob’s abuse are marginalized – by state surveillance, by gender, by 
sexuality, by geography, by poverty, and by other factors. I stand with their 
decision to publish their accounts of his actions in a way that allowed them to 
feel safer speaking out. I am also glad that Nick Farr has also felt able to 
come forward with his own experience under his own name.

Jacob and I were involved on and off over the course of 2006 and 2007, mainly 
spending time together at security conferences. During that time, I was also 
seeing other people, with the consent and awareness of all involved. In that 
time we spent together, he violated boundaries I set as though they were a 
game, particularly at times when I was intoxicated. There were a number of 
times I felt afraid and violated during interactions with Jacob. Being involved 
with him was a steady stream of humiliations small and large as he mistreated 
me in front of others and over-shared about our intimate interactions with 
friends who were often also professional colleagues.

For example, on several occasions in professional situations, he told other 
people that I was good at a particular sex act. On another occasion where my 
primary romantic partner at the time, Paul Wouters, was also present, Jacob 
ignored my use of a safeword when his sexual behavior turned into violent 
behavior that violated my limits. Paul and I both had to repeatedly tell Jacob 
to stop, and the experience was profoundly upsetting. I believe that one of the 
common elements of Jacob’s abusive behavior is humiliating one or another 
member of a couple in front of the other – as other accounts of his actions are 
published, that is something worth watching out for. (NB: I am including Paul’s 
name here with his consent – because that matters.)

Jacob was a charismatic and central figure in the security community I spent 
the early part of my career in. Many of our friends and colleagues saw the way 
he treated me and did nothing about it, so it took me years before I realized 
how abusive he was to me. Until that realization, I remained “friends” with 
him. It was witnessing his uncritical support of Assange and smearing of 
Assange’s accusers – something I disagree with intensely – that made me 
understand the true measure of his character. It was seeing him deny other 
women’s experiences of sexual violence that made me fully realize how bad my 
own experiences with him had been.

If you are horrified by this and want to take action, here’s what I suggest.

One final note of warning: I’ve noticed at least one person who also has a 
history of sexual assault spreading word about the accusations about Jacob in a 
supportive way. I just want to say that, like Jacob himself, simply talking the 
talk about consent and sex positivity and “yes means yes” does not make someone 
a safe person to be around. Watch for people using this technique to groom 
future victims and don’t let someone’s words speak louder than their actions, 
big and small.

Comments are open but will be heavily moderated. I would prefer that people not 
contact me to disclose their own stories of mistreatment, as I am not 
(currently) a trained counselor and am already struggling with the emotional 
toll of publishing this. If you need emotional support, please reach out to 
people close to you, a counselor in your area, or to the trained folks at RAINN 
or Crisis Text Line.
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Re: [tor-talk] Jacob Appelbaum Has Allegedly Engaged in Sexual Misconduct for Over a Decade

[Cecilia Tanaka]

My dear ja.talk,

The most sad about this kind of stories of abuse and rape is having
absolute conviction that some of Jake's "victims" are much more pervert,
rapist and hypocrite than Jake, me and great part of people here.

Once, some years ago, I was so innocent and fool as Jake and told about a
threesome experience in my loved hackerspace, full of my dear friends.

I really liked my threesome experience and, being ingenuous, I just tried
to share some impressions about it.  I thought it would be fun for them too.

Well, after this event, I am considered "pervert" until nowadays in great
part of Brazilian hacker community, even being straight edge.  Almost
straight edge, in reality.  I am not feeling so vegan since I saw a
ridiculous situation in person.

Some people are able to feed all the stray cats and dogs of the city and
don't give a kind word to another human being, because is a homeless.
Human beings are animals too.  They need respect and care too.

The same thing that I saw here.  Hypocrisy and contradictions, absence of
logic and respect, incoerences...  Aff...  :(((

Dear ja.talk, please, get a life, your own life, instead taking Jake's.  It
is not so hard.  If you do need help to survive in a better and less
painful way  -  without kill my friends or their reputations and/or mine,
please!  -  just write me in private and ask for good references  (music,
cooking recipes, jokes, etc)  and good readings.

Please, consider *really seriously* some kind of psychological treatment
too.  It is not healthy, neither normal, trying to destroy a person with so
much fury and rage.  And, please, always remember:

**  Talking is cheap.  Show me the code.  **

Jake is not a saint, but he, definitely, is not a monster.  He never was a
monster.  Sorry, why so much hate?  :-/

If you cannot proof or don't want to talk pretty seriously in a tribunal
about all the aleged abuses, Tor Project will pay for your legal mistakes.

Do you know what lawyers usually do in USA?  The same thing that you are
doing here.  They destroy lives, my dear ja.talk.

For now, Tor Project is still alive and working, more or less, well.  After
some public scandals and paying great indenizations, I doubt a lot.  Is it
your real purpose?  Destroy lives and security projects?  Please, think
about it with open mind and open heart.

Take care and be well, ja.talk group.  Warm and sincere wishes of inner
peace, harmony and hope for you all.  I always survived because I had true
hope in a better future, maybe not for me, but for the rest of the world.
I still dream of a better world.

Survive without destroy people around, please.  First, Jake.  Now Roger
too?  When will the public lynching stop?  Always without clemency,
compassion?  :(

Do you know what is love?  What do you feel when see someone crying?  Do
you have a heart?  Mine is broken, but never will be cruel as yours.  I
prefer to kill myself all the days than becoming so cruel and coward as you
are being right now.

Cecilia
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Re: [tor-talk] Sorry Jake I know you are innocent

[df.]

WTF?

Wow Kevin I guess at least "ja.talk" decided to come clean and be honest.


Kevin:
> Why would you even joke about this situation?
> 
> 
> On 6/8/2016 7:13 PM, ja.t...@eugeni.torproject.org wrote:
>> Hey guys I am just making all this stuff up, sorry for being such a
>> stuipd asshole!
> 
> 
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Re: [tor-talk] Sorry Jake I know you are innocent

[Kevin]

Why would you even joke about this situation?


On 6/8/2016 7:13 PM, ja.t...@eugeni.torproject.org wrote:

Hey guys I am just making all this stuff up, sorry for being such a stuipd 
asshole!



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Re: [tor-talk] Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by the Tor Project

[Kevin]

Of course.  That's how this stuff works.  We have to go after everybody 
having to do with a situation.  Bring on the sacrificial lamb!



On 6/8/2016 6:13 PM, carlos...@sigaint.org wrote:

Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by
the Tor Project

"Next to get booted from the Tor Project will be one of the founders of
the Tor Project Roger Dingledine, the official reason will be that he was
traveling with Jacob to various conventions and knew of Jacobs behavior
but didn't do anything about it even when he was the interim executive
director."

https://i.imgur.com/5OkBZfW.png

Is this true?





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[tor-talk] Sorry Jake I know you are innocent

[ja . talk]

Hey guys I am just making all this stuff up, sorry for being such a stuipd 
asshole!
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Re: [tor-talk] Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by the Tor Project

[Mirimir]

On 06/08/2016 04:47 PM, juan wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 22:13:08 -
> carlos...@sigaint.org wrote:
> 
>> Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get
>> fired by the Tor Project
>>
>> "Next to get booted from the Tor Project will be one of the founders
>> of the Tor Project Roger Dingledine, the official reason will be that
>> he was traveling with Jacob to various conventions and knew of Jacobs
>> behavior but didn't do anything about it even when he was the interim
>> executive director."
>>
>> https://i.imgur.com/5OkBZfW.png
>>
>> Is this true?
> 
> 
> 
>   Sounds rather reasonable. If you grant that all the lunatic,
>   politically correct, witch hunters are 'right', then people who
>   knew about appelbaum horrible 'crimes' and did nothing are at
>   least morally responsible and perhaps share material
>   responsibility as well.

If you read Leigh Honeywell's rant carefully, it's pretty clear that she
and Jacob were part of an S community. Consider the phrase "boundaries
I set", and the use of "safeword", rather than "safe word".

So now that there's a witch hunt in progress, she wants to be on the
hunters' side ;) Everyone connected to this will have to choose.
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Re: [tor-talk] Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by the Tor Project

[juan]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 22:13:08 -
carlos...@sigaint.org wrote:

> Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get
> fired by the Tor Project
> 
> "Next to get booted from the Tor Project will be one of the founders
> of the Tor Project Roger Dingledine, the official reason will be that
> he was traveling with Jacob to various conventions and knew of Jacobs
> behavior but didn't do anything about it even when he was the interim
> executive director."
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/5OkBZfW.png
> 
> Is this true?



Sounds rather reasonable. If you grant that all the lunatic,
politically correct, witch hunters are 'right', then people who
knew about appelbaum horrible 'crimes' and did nothing are at
least morally responsible and perhaps share material
responsibility as well.







> 
> 

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Re: [tor-talk] Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by the Tor Project

[Mirimir]

On 06/08/2016 04:13 PM, carlos...@sigaint.org wrote:
> Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by
> the Tor Project
> 
> "Next to get booted from the Tor Project will be one of the founders of
> the Tor Project Roger Dingledine, the official reason will be that he was
> traveling with Jacob to various conventions and knew of Jacobs behavior
> but didn't do anything about it even when he was the interim executive
> director."
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/5OkBZfW.png
> 
> Is this true?

True? I have no clue.

But it was inevitable. This is how TLAs work. No one is safe.

This also reminds me of the Red Guards.

See the last half of this excerpt from Cixin Liu's The Three-Body
Problem, describing a "struggle session":
http://us.macmillan.com/excerpt?isbn=9780765382030

Sound familiar?

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Re: [tor-talk] Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by the Tor Project

[Lara]

carlos...@sigaint.org:
> Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by
> the Tor Project

Talking about click bait. A nobody quotes some other nobody that
somebody is going to do something. Couting the morons who will start
expressing sincere, yet moronic oppinions. 1...

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Re: [tor-talk] Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by the Tor Project

[Ben Tasker]

Meh, wouldn't put any weight on anything being posted in /r/TOR at the
moment.

About 24 hours after "news" broke, a similar account (in the sense of being
brand-new with no other posts) posted the news that Jacob had committed
suicide as the result of the accusations. Post seems to have gone now
though.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:13 PM,  wrote:

> Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by
> the Tor Project
>
> "Next to get booted from the Tor Project will be one of the founders of
> the Tor Project Roger Dingledine, the official reason will be that he was
> traveling with Jacob to various conventions and knew of Jacobs behavior
> but didn't do anything about it even when he was the interim executive
> director."
>
> https://i.imgur.com/5OkBZfW.png
>
> Is this true?
>
>
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[tor-talk] Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by the Tor Project

[carlos555]

Reddit user babalui1 claims that Roger Dingledine is next to get fired by
the Tor Project

"Next to get booted from the Tor Project will be one of the founders of
the Tor Project Roger Dingledine, the official reason will be that he was
traveling with Jacob to various conventions and knew of Jacobs behavior
but didn't do anything about it even when he was the interim executive
director."

https://i.imgur.com/5OkBZfW.png

Is this true?


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[tor-talk] What can u code in 2 days ?

[Flipchan]

I wanted to challenge myself to 100% so i coded a blogging platform in 2 days 
(rushed it after my regular work)  the css and style sucks but i spent most 
time on the sec and simular stuff i ended up with:
https://github.com/flipchan/blogger

2factor pgp auth, btc address gen and ofc anti csrf and password hashing ^^ 

Was fun to work so intense with something due to the short period of time i had 
Building this . Anyhow would recommend to do something simular ofc it will turn 
out with alot of holes but its a fun Project to do, and also a break from all 
the talk about Jacob ,take care and have a nice day
-- 
Sincerly Flipchan
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Re: [tor-talk] Decoding Jake Appelbaum

[Mattia]

Yes that story is different from the other I read. Still, so far it's just
a story.
I don't know who "River" is. Real? Trustworthy? Biased? No idea, nor does
anyone else, since he/she's anonymous.
Surely, based on this, trusted media are already labeling a person as a
rapist.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:17 AM, fatal  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I didn't want to contribute to this topic, but Mattia really upset me.
>
> On 07.06.2016 22:44, Mattia wrote:
> > Was this FBI? Are these accusations real? (I have not seen any accusation
> > of RAPE, which is profoundly different than having a disturbing
> behaviour,
> > although many titles use that word).
>
> Seriously, have you read the story from River on jacobappelbaum.net?
> Or wasn't that rape because they were in a relationship?
>
> However you dress, where ever you go, yes means yes and no means no!
>
> @Carrie: please do not write about your, truely sad, experiences without
> marking such an email with a trigger warning. So that people can decide
> beforehand if they'd like to read it. For people who have  been sexually
> abused reading your story can be retraumatizing!
>
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Re: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror

[carlo von lynX]

> > > The problem is, if the victims have committed crimes themselves
> > > by making their stories public, then going before a judge may
> > > backfire on them. Not just fake victims, also real victims.
> > > They may get prosecuted for defamation on top of having suffered
> > > a crime. We know that the justice system may not be able to
> > > punish even a true offender if no legal proof can be produced.
> > > So if you want victims to feel safe to talk to the authorities,
> > > you must keep them from committing a counter-crime.
> > 
> > ???

If that paragraph was unclear, please ask a question.

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 09:19:04PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 12:47:15PM +0200, ma...@wk3.org wrote:
> > Quoting carlo von lynX (2016-06-08 08:28:23)
> > > That's why I am in favor of pre-emptive management of social
> > > issues (aka "vibes watching") and a more fine-grained justice
> > > system internal to the hacktivist movement. A court made of
> > > people we trust that victims can turn to safely, without 
> > > engaging in further crimes, yet enabling that court to take 
> > > measures to protect future people from becoming victims.
> > 
> > You mean like "Someone is abrasive on mailing lists all. the. time. 

No, I was talking of the other scenario several threads are about.

> > Let's talk to them about it in private, oh they are still abrasive,
> > let's talk to them in private, oh, now they are writing weirdly
> > misogynistic things, let's not let that stand unchallenged, suddenly
> > they are implicitly threatening you with physical violence.", that
> > kind of thing?

I remember an instance when somebody at all costs wanted to give my
words a completely bogus interpretation and flame me to death for it.
Since I learned from the past that engaging in a discussion on a mailing
list would inevitably lead to a major flame war, since that person's
emotional writing was clearly beyond rationality, I tried to clear up
the misunderstandings by one-to-one mail - just like the sociological
handbooks suggest. Curiously, the person refused to answer, so apparently
the good intentions were lacking. Since that community, like most online
communities, had no justice system, I had to leave it at that.. allowing
that confused person to damage my public reputation out of some confused
mood. I don't even believe they are ridden by bad intentions. I left it
at that, although I felt I had been treated injustly.

On a later occasion I met the person and was confronted with even more
refusal to engage in the clearing up of the situation. They had decided
all by themselves that I am not a human being worthy of a decent exchange
of words. That was a harsh insult to take in. Somebody essentially denying
me my right to exist, to be part of our common fight. I probably got
loud and didn't show the best me that I want to be, but refusing to
clear up trouble isn't a basis on which two people can continue to 
co-exist in a community project they both care about. That person had
unilaterally decided to expel me from the project as good as they could.
And the whole thing was absurdly unnecessary, since we have the same aims
and I simply am not who they need to believe me to be. It is so much more
practical to think that being in a community takes zero obligation to
try and be peaceful with others, than to look at their own mistakes. And
so that community, like many others, is poisoned, as we have seen also on
other occasions.

> > Where would you go, and what would you do, if you felt physically
> > threatened by someone, and that same person would be discussing
> > how to design systems to deal with such situations?

Well, apparently that person wants these things not to happen by design,
as they aren't pleasant for anyone in such a constellation. Having
experienced various roles in troubled situations increases the competence
for working out solutions, no? Are you sure that person isn't just hurt
by your actions?

Currently most online communities take suffering in until it is
impossible to continue, then expel some people on some grounds, and
then the process starts anew.

I think we would be much better off with a de-escalation practice that
allows people to learn from their mistakes and makes them better people.
Interestingly I found tons of literature on this subject, but hardly any
Internet community, that actually practices it. On this entire topic I
took a serious amount of time to write http://my.pages.de/convivenza 
which unfortunately is available only in Italian and German, but the list
of English-written references is useful all by itself.

Some trolls just want attention, and by being taught how to behave better
they actually also achieve getting the attention they might actually
deserve. But a decent justice system is pivotal to achieve such aim -
well-intended words and codes of conduct never work if they aren't
enforced, because even the best-intended people will sometimes use the

Re: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror

[tor_talk]

Hi Tor Talkers and Malte,

Malte wrote Wed Jun 8 10:47:15 UTC 2016:
"Where would you go, and what would you do, if you felt physically
threatened by someone, and that same person would be discussing
how to design systems to deal with such situations?"

Maybe there is an app out there for the mobile device with which you can 
interrupt someones attitude/intention. If there is no such app it should do 
such things like:
1. shortkey to start the app on e. g. (the own) phone and extend it (with a 
following number) as the situation goes on
a) ring tone
hey, someone is going to ...
b) this call is for you
- i don't want to have .../sex with you (1)
- today is bad, try it another day (2)
- i don't like you, this will not happen, ever (3)
- go to jail => establishing connection with the next police station, 
automatically, so they can follow the ongoing (4)
- to all the gaffers around, pls help me, i can't stand it on my own, help me 
NOW...you over there come and help me, take me with you and scream to the 
followers while i feel i haven't the breath for that. (5)
The voice of the phone needs to volume up.

2. train this kind of situation once in a while
- for your own safety with someone you trust or pay for
- for the safety of others in that situation, so you quickly get a clue what is 
going on
training is important as it is with doing first aid
there are trigger things even for gaffers to interrupt someones intent

if you feel someone is not excellent tell the person who needs some extra 
social upgrades. sometimes the person is either not so skilled or that skill 
isn't important right now for the person or is in a "flow" or ...
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Re: [tor-talk] RIP Tor

[Andreas Krey]

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 11:41:14 +, CANNON NATHANIEL CIOTA wrote:

> Open source and compiling from source is best option. Hopefully there 
> are enough programmers that are able to interpret the source code 
> examining it. Although the source code may be good, most users do not 
> compile from source. Most users install pre-compiled binaries. If I was 
> an adversary I would have the source code clean and have a backdoor in 
> the pre-compiled binaries knowing most people do not compile from 
> source.

That's why tor is doing reproducible builds.

> Most people is all it takes for a sybil position in the network. 
> To mitigate such a thing, one good solution would be to replace 'apt-get 
> install tor'

I'd tend to trust debian to do their thing right, at least as much
as I trust my own verification of what I downloaded to build tor.

> with instructions of how to download, verify integrity, and 
> compile from source; in guides aimed at aspiring Tor node operators and 
> advanced users.

Data point: https://github.com/apk/buildery/blob/master/tor-build/build.sh
This is with building openssl, and has issues that the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
needs to be correct when starting it. Should perhaps throw a -Bstatic
in there.

Andreas

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From: Linus Torvalds 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:29:21 -0800
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Re: [tor-talk] RIP Tor

[CANNON NATHANIEL CIOTA]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

 On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 02:12:43PM -0400, Not Friendly wrote:

I do not understand why those people think that Tor is a honeypot by
the federal government. It is OPEN SOURCE. If you are by any means
worried look at the source code and compile it manually. There is no
hiding a backdoor. Unless every relay operator is helping the
federal government (which at that point the information would leak)
then there isn't a way to backdoor Tor. I don't understand why
people do not take the time to research things.


Open source and compiling from source is best option. Hopefully there 
are enough programmers that are able to interpret the source code 
examining it. Although the source code may be good, most users do not 
compile from source. Most users install pre-compiled binaries. If I was 
an adversary I would have the source code clean and have a backdoor in 
the pre-compiled binaries knowing most people do not compile from 
source. Most people is all it takes for a sybil position in the network. 
To mitigate such a thing, one good solution would be to replace 'apt-get 
install tor' with instructions of how to download, verify integrity, and 
compile from source; in guides aimed at aspiring Tor node operators and 
advanced users.

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Re: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 12:47:15PM +0200, ma...@wk3.org wrote:
> Quoting carlo von lynX (2016-06-08 08:28:23)
> > The problem is, if the victims have committed crimes themselves
> > by making their stories public, then going before a judge may
> > backfire on them. Not just fake victims, also real victims.
> > They may get prosecuted for defamation on top of having suffered
> > a crime. We know that the justice system may not be able to
> > punish even a true offender if no legal proof can be produced.
> > So if you want victims to feel safe to talk to the authorities,
> > you must keep them from committing a counter-crime.
> 
> ???
> 
> > That's why I am in favor of pre-emptive management of social
> > issues (aka "vibes watching") and a more fine-grained justice
> > system internal to the hacktivist movement. A court made of
> > people we trust that victims can turn to safely, without 
> > engaging in further crimes, yet enabling that court to take 
> > measures to protect future people from becoming victims.
> 
> You mean like "Someone is abrasive on mailing lists all. the. time. 
> Let's talk to them about it in private, oh they are still abrasive,
> let's talk to them in private, oh, now they are writing weirdly
> misogynistic things, let's not let that stand unchallenged, suddenly
> they are implicitly threatening you with physical violence.", that
> kind of thing?
> 
> Where would you go, and what would you do, if you felt physically
> threatened by someone, and that same person would be discussing
> how to design systems to deal with such situations?

A very good question. Not many have answers, especially those who have
suffered in such situations.

Unfortunately "SJW" has taken on some denigrating meanings, since quite a
few SJW poseurs have popped up here and there and often times ended up
creating problems, which have in some online communities persisted for
years.

An answer?

Fistly, identify if someone is being bullied, and second, if the target of
the bully appears strong enough to handle the "bully".

If not, or if you are unsure, talk with the targetted one offlist and
check in to see if they're ok or would like any offlist ear to talk to.

For the one who is conscientious, such communication comes naturally and
hopefully contributes to a stronger, all around warmer community.

Those who just love to go at it hammer and tong at each other, well,
perhaps sit back and enjoy the view, and if the view is too personally
distressing to you, consider Ye Goode Olde Kille File - it's not that
hard to change the view. I personally find it difficult to restrain myself
from leaping into the fray on one side, then the other, rather than simply
sit back and enjoy the view. I personally really enjoy it when individuals
are strong enough to joust back and forth, and back, and forth, then do it
all again tomorrow. Can't get much better entertainment.

Thirdly, if you feel that you personally are being targetted by a bully
and that you are finding it challenging, or really not coping, I suggest
saying less where possible and reasonable, and identifying one or more
individuals whom you consider would be receptive to you and listen to you
with empathy.

NOW, if you are unable to identify such a receptive, empathetic individual
within your chosen community, you are going to find it tough going and I
don't have much more in the way of suggestions for you, other than to find
a community with like minded individuals. Forums are not so difficult to
create these days, and if ultimately your version of a warm and caring
community requires moderation, you may have to experience that pathway in
your own little online community to discover how that goes...

Good luck
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Re: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror

[malte]

Quoting carlo von lynX (2016-06-08 08:28:23)
> The problem is, if the victims have committed crimes themselves
> by making their stories public, then going before a judge may
> backfire on them. Not just fake victims, also real victims.
> They may get prosecuted for defamation on top of having suffered
> a crime. We know that the justice system may not be able to
> punish even a true offender if no legal proof can be produced.
> So if you want victims to feel safe to talk to the authorities,
> you must keep them from committing a counter-crime.

???

> That's why I am in favor of pre-emptive management of social
> issues (aka "vibes watching") and a more fine-grained justice
> system internal to the hacktivist movement. A court made of
> people we trust that victims can turn to safely, without 
> engaging in further crimes, yet enabling that court to take 
> measures to protect future people from becoming victims.

You mean like "Someone is abrasive on mailing lists all. the. time. 
Let's talk to them about it in private, oh they are still abrasive,
let's talk to them in private, oh, now they are writing weirdly
misogynistic things, let's not let that stand unchallenged, suddenly
they are implicitly threatening you with physical violence.", that
kind of thing?

Where would you go, and what would you do, if you felt physically
threatened by someone, and that same person would be discussing
how to design systems to deal with such situations?
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Re: [tor-talk] The Aqua design

[me]

On 08.06.16 00:02, Philipp Winter wrote:

On Sun, Jun 05, 2016 at 02:34:22PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:

You need fulltime regulated fill traffic, within which, your traffic resides.

However, Aqua cannot protect against long-term intersection attacks and
the authors haven't really thought about incentives for joining the
network; I could see the network only being used for illegal file
sharing, making it an attractive target for blocking with low collateral
damage.
The incentive is improving anonymity, of course. It's better to fill a 
connection with *useful* traffic. Does Aqua allow to mix web browser 
traffic with file-sharing traffic?


BTW, do you know a layman's introduction to long-term intersection attack?
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Re: [tor-talk] Which reputable webmail providers function well with Tor?

[ng0]

On 2016-06-08(06:54:36+), df. wrote:
>
> carlo von lynX:
> > One thing is the dragnet mass surveillance that feeds into
> > XKEYSCORE for free. Hosting your mail at riseup or gmail means the
> > contents or the fact you've been using crypto with somebody will
> > get indexed for later use anytime in your life.
>
> Well yeah assuming I am careless about how I do things and for that
> they can identify who I am.
>
> >
> > The other thing is targeted interception of GSM traffic near the
> > chancellor's office from the top of the US embassy building. We
> > know that the 5 eyes can probably work themselves into most of the
> > e-mail systems on earth, but at least it is an active act of
> > intrusion - not provided by free by a regional law.
>
> I do not think I need to say that there are a myriad of ways to
> monitor and spy on someone especially when the desire exists to do it.
>
> >
> > If two people have their accounts with a well chosen provider
> > outside the US, there is a vague possibility they can exchange
> > messages that do not end up in XKEYSCORE. Even if they end up in
> > somebody else's dragnet, then at least they're distributed better.
>
> Does it matter where the accounts are located?  You still have to
> trust the provider. Anyway XKEYSCORE should not be a problem when the
> information you decide to send out in to the wild is handled properly.

Assume that any information can be used against you, as laws have been
changed to what LEA want to work on, so what is harmless now can be
very dangerous in n years.
I don't fully follow that myself, but it's a possibility to consider.

> > My general rule is we should all stop using SMTP, so I don't make
> > recommendations on any specific offerings. I have my own server
> > with my little collective, and that is a pain as well, because in
> > this unfree Internet running your own server means getting bullied
> > by the cloud servers for being a potential spammer or malware
> > host.
>
> Looks like your "general rule" is a hard one to obey am I right?

Well actually not that hard.
For bridging the gap until there's something better, there's
bitmessage now, which can either be used through PyBitmessage
or bitmessage-daemon + bitmessage-client or other applications.

If anything positive to mention about it, its network is distributed
unlike the federation of email servers.


I once recommended A/I, runbox, and others for a good number of
years but I have seen the assumptions people make when they
switch to them ("now all my communication is safer than the
one I use on my gmx account and encrypted by default" - yep,
this really happens..) and the problems which occur with
providers where you have to put your trust in them.
I still have to see the transparency report I talked about
with someone from/connected to A/I 3 years ago when they
were working on it.
And you have to trust that they know what's best for their
systems. They have this Orangenbook out, but it is outdated
as the way they operate changed a bit.

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Re: [tor-talk] Which reputable webmail providers function well with Tor?

[df.]

carlo von lynX:
> One thing is the dragnet mass surveillance that feeds into
> XKEYSCORE for free. Hosting your mail at riseup or gmail means the
> contents or the fact you've been using crypto with somebody will
> get indexed for later use anytime in your life.

Well yeah assuming I am careless about how I do things and for that
they can identify who I am.

> 
> The other thing is targeted interception of GSM traffic near the 
> chancellor's office from the top of the US embassy building. We
> know that the 5 eyes can probably work themselves into most of the
> e-mail systems on earth, but at least it is an active act of
> intrusion - not provided by free by a regional law.

I do not think I need to say that there are a myriad of ways to
monitor and spy on someone especially when the desire exists to do it.

> 
> If two people have their accounts with a well chosen provider
> outside the US, there is a vague possibility they can exchange
> messages that do not end up in XKEYSCORE. Even if they end up in
> somebody else's dragnet, then at least they're distributed better.

Does it matter where the accounts are located?  You still have to
trust the provider. Anyway XKEYSCORE should not be a problem when the
information you decide to send out in to the wild is handled properly.

> My general rule is we should all stop using SMTP, so I don't make 
> recommendations on any specific offerings. I have my own server
> with my little collective, and that is a pain as well, because in
> this unfree Internet running your own server means getting bullied
> by the cloud servers for being a potential spammer or malware
> host.

Looks like your "general rule" is a hard one to obey am I right?


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Re: [tor-talk] RIP Tor

[grarpamp]

On 6/8/16, carlo von lynX  wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 02:12:43PM -0400, Not Friendly wrote:
>> I do not understand why those people think that Tor is a honeypot by
>> the federal government. It is OPEN SOURCE. If you are by any means
>> worried look at the source code and compile it manually. There is no
>> hiding a backdoor. Unless every relay operator is helping the
>> federal government (which at that point the information would leak)
>> then there isn't a way to backdoor Tor. I don't understand why
>> people do not take the time to research things.

Let remember that code can reach near flawless expression
of design principle. Whereas flawed principle can greatly
fail against adversary.
It may be best to first evaluate the adversary and principle,
then the code.
And re-eval the former with the same routine frequency of the
latter (or more should the latter reached steady state).
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Re: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror

[carlo von lynX]

On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 10:08:57PM +0300, ja.talk wrote:
> https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2853643-Jacob-Appelbaum-CULT-of-the-DEAD-COW-Statement.html
> https://www.facebook.com/cultdeadcow/posts/10157076402890360

Facebook? Ouch.

> CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror
> 
> Like much of the hacker community, we were troubled to hear the allegations 
> of sexual abuse, manipulation, and bullying leveled against one of our 
> members, Jacob Appelbaum, A.K.A. ioerror. We’re also aware that the Tor 
> Project is conducting an internal investigation, and encourage anyone with 
> relevant testimony to come forward. For some, it won’t be easy. There can be 
> shaming or humiliation, or the fear of not being believed.

To come forward where to? If there is a legitimate internal committee
to turn to, that is good.

> It is also our responsibility to create an environment where people feel safe 
> to come forward.

So what have you done. Have you elected a court of arbitration?
It is *not* safe for either victims nor suspects of crime to
go public in front of the entire Internet, and just declaring
the Internet an "environment where people feel safe" doesn't
make it so. So where is that environment?

> We have always stood for freedom of speech and expression, which sometimes 
> necessitates the right to anonymity.

See my previous post on the false understanding of freedom of
expression. It is completely false to apply in this case.

> This is something that victims of abuse often require.

That is a fair way to think, but has proven to be socially and
legally wrong. You don't produce justice by fostering more crime.

> We stand by their right to be anonymous. Others, like our friend Nick Farr, 
> who decided to go public with his own difficulties, deserve our respect and 
> support. Everyone will do this in their own way.

No, that is a different form of abuse. If you handle things like
this, then there is no way to distinguish a true cry for justice
from an actual smear campaign. You are playing by the rules of
JTRIG. You are enabling manipulation.

> We know that it may be scary, but we also encourage victims to contact their 
> appropriate local authorities. We understand the complicated relationship we 
> all have with law enforcement, but there is a time and place for government 
> intervention. If the most extreme of these allegations are true, they should 
> be addressed in a court of law, and dealt with appropriately.

The problem is, if the victims have committed crimes themselves
by making their stories public, then going before a judge may
backfire on them. Not just fake victims, also real victims.
They may get prosecuted for defamation on top of having suffered
a crime. We know that the justice system may not be able to
punish even a true offender if no legal proof can be produced.
So if you want victims to feel safe to talk to the authorities,
you must keep them from committing a counter-crime.

> CULT OF THE DEAD COW is known for a lot of things, but treating people 
> horribly is not one of them. If communities are to thrive and remain relevant 
> we have to do some housecleaning from time to time. As we have become aware 
> of the anonymous accusations of sexual assault, as well as the stories told 
> by individuals we know and trust, we've decided to remove Jake from the herd 
> effective immediately.

Yeah yeah, we all think we are "the good" and our community isn't
as bad as other Internet communities. Truth is, these problems are
systemic and apply to all digital communities since decades. If
you don't provide for justice, then injustice will happen, and
you will never know for sure if you punished the culprit or the
victim.

That's why I am in favor of pre-emptive management of social
issues (aka "vibes watching") and a more fine-grained justice
system internal to the hacktivist movement. A court made of
people we trust that victims can turn to safely, without 
engaging in further crimes, yet enabling that court to take 
measures to protect future people from becoming victims.

If you don't do it through such a court, you end up enabling 
and even legitimizing a lynch mob. That may not be as bad as
the purported crimes, or maybe it actually is, since it becomes
impossible to figure out the truth, so as a side effect the
entire community reaches a condition ideal for manipulation:
Anyone can be character-assassinated anytime.

I know everyone including the CULT of COW is operating in
their best intentions, but you also know the way to hell.


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Re: [tor-talk] Decoding Jake Appelbaum

[fatal]

Hello,

I didn't want to contribute to this topic, but Mattia really upset me.

On 07.06.2016 22:44, Mattia wrote:
> Was this FBI? Are these accusations real? (I have not seen any accusation
> of RAPE, which is profoundly different than having a disturbing behaviour,
> although many titles use that word).

Seriously, have you read the story from River on jacobappelbaum.net?
Or wasn't that rape because they were in a relationship?

However you dress, where ever you go, yes means yes and no means no!

@Carrie: please do not write about your, truely sad, experiences without
marking such an email with a trigger warning. So that people can decide
beforehand if they'd like to read it. For people who have  been sexually
abused reading your story can be retraumatizing!

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Re: [tor-talk] RIP Tor

[carlo von lynX]

On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 02:12:43PM -0400, Not Friendly wrote:
> I do not understand why those people think that Tor is a honeypot by
> the federal government. It is OPEN SOURCE. If you are by any means
> worried look at the source code and compile it manually. There is no
> hiding a backdoor. Unless every relay operator is helping the
> federal government (which at that point the information would leak)
> then there isn't a way to backdoor Tor. I don't understand why
> people do not take the time to research things.

1. People are lazy. It is more fun to have an opinion than to research.
2. People who doubt Tor typically do not have the competence to read the code.
3. Such people would have to trust experts (or even "friends") to
   understand the code and be scientific about their judgement.
   But frequently such people also do not believe in trusting other people
   so they probably also do not believe in science (chemtrails! vaccines!)
   nor in the importance of the separation of powers in democracy, just
   because breaches cannot be eliminated entirely. These are all concepts
   that depend on you not expecting the world to be conspired against you.

Apparently the number of people living without anything they trust is 
increasing. It is said to be correlated with the quality of education.
They typically resort to trusting their gut feelings, which is ironically 
just what potential mind controllers would want. After all gut feelings 
are nothing but the expression of thoughts and fears that have been 
instilled into you in your infancy. So if your programming is good and 
you refuse to live your life on a fact-oriented basis, you will not even 
have the tools to debug the programming you received. You'll think you're
a rebel for distrusting everyone, but you'll be the most sheeple of all.
Wagenhofer's "Alphabet" documentary is said to go in a similar direction
of analysis. Haven't seen it yet.


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