Re: [tor-talk] Tor users in US up by nearly 100,000 this month

2017-09-01 Thread Roger Dingledine 
On Fri, Sep 01, 2017 at 08:08:30PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote:
> I'd be happy to ask CloudFlare if they'd be willing to share this data
> (maybe in relative rather than absolute numeric terms, like "the number
> of people successfully completing a CAPTCHA per day from a Tor exit
> node on September 1, 2017 is x% of what it was on January 1, 2016").

If you're thinking in that direction, I would suggest asking Akamai
instead. The question is "how many people are connecting from known Tor
IP addresses to your sites?"

Asking Cloudflare how many people are deciding to solve their captchas
today is measuring a different thing -- if I try to load a news article,
see a cloudflare captcha, and say "aw, fuck cloudflare, oh well" and
move on, am I a bot?

--Roger

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Re: [tor-talk] Tor users in US up by nearly 100,000 this month

2017-09-01 Thread Seth David Schoen 
Scfith Riseup writes:

> Nope.
>
> Indication that Tor in use uptick unfortunately could point to more
> bots collecting Tor, not necessarily people using Tor. Wish there was
> a way to differentiate bots from meat.

Amusingly, CloudFlare would probably be in a position to do so because
they present many Tor users with CAPTCHAs.  While this has annoyed Tor
users quite a bit, if we assume that

* old and new Tor users are about equally likely to attempt the CAPTCHA
* old and new Tor users are about equally likely to pass it
* old and new users visit a similar proportion of CloudFlare-hosted sites
  via Tor exits
* CAPTCHAs are relatively effective at preventing access by bots
* CloudFlare keeps logs that clearly identify total volumes of successful
  CAPTCHA completion from Tor exit nodes

then CloudFlare would have good, meaningful data about trends in human
use of Tor.  They wouldn't know the overall volume of human or bot use
of Tor, but they could tell pretty accurately when human use is up or
down and by what fraction.

One confounding factor would arise if the new users are significantly
more or less likely than old users to use onion services.

I'd be happy to ask CloudFlare if they'd be willing to share this data
(maybe in relative rather than absolute numeric terms, like "the number
of people successfully completing a CAPTCHA per day from a Tor exit
node on September 1, 2017 is x% of what it was on January 1, 2016").

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Seth Schoen  
Senior Staff Technologist   https://www.eff.org/
Electronic Frontier Foundation  https://www.eff.org/join
815 Eddy Street, San Francisco, CA  94109   +1 415 436 9333 x107
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Re: [tor-talk] Tor users in US up by nearly 100,000 this month

2017-09-01 Thread Scfith Riseup 
Nope. 

Indication that Tor in use uptick unfortunately could point to more bots 
collecting Tor, not necessarily people using Tor. Wish there was a way to 
differentiate bots from meat. 

Cheers. 

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 7:35 PM, James  wrote:
> 
> Ryan Carboni:
>> I think the graph speaks for itself. Tor usage is becoming a lot more
>> widespread.
>> 
>> https://metrics.torproject.org/userstats-relay-country.html?start=2017-08-03=2017-09-01=us=off
> 
> so is linux:
> 
> https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx
> 
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Re: [tor-talk] Tor users in US up by nearly 100,000 this month

2017-09-01 Thread James 
Ryan Carboni:
> I think the graph speaks for itself. Tor usage is becoming a lot more
> widespread.
>
> https://metrics.torproject.org/userstats-relay-country.html?start=2017-08-03=2017-09-01=us=off

so is linux:

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx

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[tor-talk] Tor users in US up by nearly 100,000 this month

2017-09-01 Thread Ryan Carboni 
I think the graph speaks for itself. Tor usage is becoming a lot more
widespread.

https://metrics.torproject.org/userstats-relay-country.html?start=2017-08-03=2017-09-01=us=off
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