Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux 2.0 alpha
OK, I will try to write something up as soon as I can. Let me just clarify some points. Is the goal to be more secure than a standard Linux distro such as Ubuntu or Debian? Yes. Is the goal to be more secure than a distro such as Tails or Liberte? No. For example, instead of using a patched version of Firefox as Tails does, Pirate Linux uses the latest official Firefox ESR together with the JondoFox profile to create the Tor Browser. So there is less micromanaging of security issues that should in principle be dealt with by the upstream providers (Mozilla in this case). The goals can change, but note that for now I cannot guarantee any level of security, as this would require more testing and probably hiring professional security auditors. For now I want to make sure all the features are working as expected, and then eventually, when I am happy with the functionality, and I have enough resources, I would like to perform a full audit of the software. Also, more people working on this would speed things up (I work full time on other things), so I am currently trying to find some people who would like to help. On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:08 PM, krishna e bera k...@cyblings.on.ca wrote: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, AK aka...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I was expecting you to ask something like that :). Well for now it just an alpha version, so I would not count on it for robust security. In fact, security is not the main focus of this project (unlike Tails and Liberte). Of course, it should still be reasonably secure, but I am focusing more on ease of use and privacy, rather than bulletproof security. If there is enough interest, I will make a formal document outlining the model, since I have been asked this before. Cheers interest++ -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux 2.0 alpha
Hi I was expecting you to ask something like that :). Well for now it just an alpha version, so I would not count on it for robust security. In fact, security is not the main focus of this project (unlike Tails and Liberte). Of course, it should still be reasonably secure, but I am focusing more on ease of use and privacy, rather than bulletproof security. If there is enough interest, I will make a formal document outlining the model, since I have been asked this before. Cheers On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 2:33 PM, intrigeri intrig...@boum.org wrote: Hi, AK wrote (30 Mar 2014 20:14:06 GMT) : More details are here: https://piratelinux.org/?p=567. Interesting, thanks! Where can I read about the threat model this system is meant to address? Cheers, -- intrigeri | GnuPG key @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/intrigeri.asc | OTR fingerprint @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/otr.asc -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Secure email with limited usable metadata
That's why I'm setting up my own mail server at home. And also plan to access it via web interface if using someone else's machine (like at home). I would only allow web access via SSL and password, and only show the emails of the last week (not more). Trying postfix, dovecot, and SquirrelMail. Still in progress :) On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM, alice-...@safe-mail.net wrote: I would think that simply finding a mail server that doesn't log ANYTHING (like what StartMail is about to offer) and encrypting everything should be enough. Of course, you'd need to trust that the service really isn't logging anything but that could be solved by accessing it via Tor. So StartMail (when it opens) via Tor should do the trick. StartMail/tormail does not solve the problem of metadata either. i do not want to hide my identity. i want to use my real name and communicate with people i know in real life. its about *enforcing* content encryption and secure communication so an outside observer cannot easily correlate my social network by snooping on mail traffic at net gateways. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Secure email with limited usable metadata
edit: someone one's else machine *like at work On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:18 PM, AK aka...@gmail.com wrote: That's why I'm setting up my own mail server at home. And also plan to access it via web interface if using someone else's machine (like at home). I would only allow web access via SSL and password, and only show the emails of the last week (not more). Trying postfix, dovecot, and SquirrelMail. Still in progress :) On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM, alice-...@safe-mail.net wrote: I would think that simply finding a mail server that doesn't log ANYTHING (like what StartMail is about to offer) and encrypting everything should be enough. Of course, you'd need to trust that the service really isn't logging anything but that could be solved by accessing it via Tor. So StartMail (when it opens) via Tor should do the trick. StartMail/tormail does not solve the problem of metadata either. i do not want to hide my identity. i want to use my real name and communicate with people i know in real life. its about *enforcing* content encryption and secure communication so an outside observer cannot easily correlate my social network by snooping on mail traffic at net gateways. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Torbutton and Firefox 16.x.x.Incompatible.
Ya I know, I'm also disappointed that Torbutton stopped supporting the latest Firefox. But, I have tried the JonDoFox[1] profile (with Tor proxy), and it seems to work well. If anyone knows of any serious security vulnerabilities for using this tool, please let me know :) [1]:https://anonymous-proxy-servers.net/en/jondofox.html On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:17 PM, luis redondo luis.redond...@outlook.com wrote: When I install Torbutton on Firefox 16.x.x series Firefox no more starts.It seems both are completely incompatible.With the 15.x.x series no problem.Yes,I know I should probably be using the Tor Browser Bundle,but,I do things the old way.I prefer to compile from source and configure everything manually. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux 1.5
Was it your answer to my question about upgrading Tails? Yes. I'm not sure exactly how the Tails upgrade system works, but I think it requires one to download a tails ISO and either burn it to DVD or install it to usb using the USB installer in tails or in another OS. If someone is using Tails booted from Pirate Linux, they can download the ISO from the Tails website, and use the USB installer there, it should work as long as they have enough RAM to store the ISO. If you have more detailed questions, feel free to ask me on IRC (akarmn, irc.oftc.net). On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:33 AM, intrigeri intrig...@boum.org wrote: Hi, AK wrote (31 May 2012 14:00:17 GMT) : From what I tested, no security feature is broken. Great. It's meant to easily allow people to try Tails, an if they like it and they want the official version, they can go to the Tails website and download the latest ISO. Was it your answer to my question about upgrading Tails? ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux 1.5
The clock is fine on Pirate Linux. I've been writing my emails with another OS, and now I think I fixed it :) On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Pascal pascal...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: Looks like the first bug you need to fix is with NTP. Â Your clock is not even close to right. -Pascal On 5/31/2012 2:07 PM, Andrew K wrote: But now, until probably October, I'll be too busy to add new features, so I'll just focus on maintaining bugs and important updates. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Vidalia no longer portable / --datadir option not working
I'm not sure about Windows, But this seems to work for me in Linux: vidalia --datadir datadir Before you run this, put the files torrc, vidalia.conf, geoip into datadir torrc: AvoidDiskWrites 1 Log notice stdout SocksPort 9050 SocksListenAddress 127.0.0.1 ControlPort 9051 DataDirectory datadir GeoIPFile datadir/geoip vidalia.conf: [General] InterfaceStyle=Cleanlooks LanguageCode=en ShowMainWindowAtStart=false [Tor] ControlPort=9051 TorExecutable=path to tor Torrc=datadir/torrc DataDirectory=datadir geoip: (Get this from the directory Data/Tor in the Tor Browser Bundle.) You can do this for other datadirs with different Control and Socks ports, so that you can run multiple instances (different identities). On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 7:47 PM, virak toli virakt...@gmail.com wrote: A while back vidalia.exe had an option called --datadir where it would take everything from that directory. It doesn't seem to work with the latest vidalia.exe Its a pity and I think should be fixed asap. -- Virak ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Restarting Firefox
I think this should work: 1) Remove the lines: BrowserDirectory=. BrowserExecutable=firefox from Data/Vidalia/vidalia.conf 2) Add the line SocksPort 9050 to Data/Tor/torrc 3)./App/Firefox/firefox -P no-remote and create and run a new profile with Data/profile as the directory On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall joeh...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Andrew Lewman and...@torproject.is wrote: For some reason on linux, when closing firefox, it doesn't kill vidalia. On osx and windows, closing firefox correctly closes vidalia. Just a correction: On OS X 10.6.8 Vidalia remains open when I quite the TBB FireFox. best, Joe -- Joseph Lorenzo Hall Postdoctoral Research Fellow Media, Culture and Communication New York University https://josephhall.org/ ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Adblock Plus and Ghostery should be included in Tor bundle
I think Ghostery + Adblock Plus + No Script is overkill. Choose one. They all pretty much do the same thing. Block nasty javascript. No Script seems appropriate for the Tor Browser due to it's default aggressive stance on any javascript. But just curious, which part of Ghostery is closed source, because when I open up the xpi I don't see any binaries, but haven't looked at everything. On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Andrew Lewman and...@torproject.orgwrote: On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:31:28 - pro...@tormail.net wrote: Same goes for Adblock Plus. If it's safe, it should come preinstalled with TBB. Ads over Tor make no sense, you can not buy those things anonymously and ads and tracking waste Tor's and users bandwidth. Actually, you can buy stuff from ads through Tor. I've done it, works fine. The next version of TBB really should have Do-Not-Track enabled. If all TBB users have it activated by default, there are no fingerprinting issues. DNT is an opinion which all Tor users express by using Tor. I see no disadvantages by activating DNT by default. Sounds correct, but needs more research into anonymity set reduction, partitioning of those with or without DNT set, and does DNT reveal more info than the lack of tracking via torbutton now? -- Andrew http://tpo.is/contact pgp 0x74ED336B ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Aurora only build
As far as I know, Aurora is based on something called Firefox Portable. Last time I checked, this thing isn't even open source. Can someone clarify this? Or should I open a new thread? On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Geoff Down geoffd...@fastmail.net wrote: On Fri, Jan 27, 2012, at 09:50 AM, Marco Bonetti wrote: - Original Message - though perhaps it would not provide as strong anonymity as Aurora - any views? Errr... I think you missed a point ;-) Aurora IS Firefox or, at least, it's the release name. When building custom version of Mozilla products from source you can't use the same name as the official packages. That's the TL;DR of the Mozilla Public Policy. TBB is a custom version of Mozilla Firefox built by the Tor Project and shipped together with Vidalia and some other programs and libraries. So, if you want to have something which looks like TBB on a PowerPC Mac, install Vidalia, grab a copy of TenFourFox and install required extensions. Beware this is not enough! TBB has been built to address a specific threat model and Firefox has been patched and configured accordingly to that model so I'm the first to warn you that just run Firefox with required extensions is close enough but not the same thing. No, that was my point - TenFourFox does not have the patches that the TBB Firefox has, so even with the same extensions it will not be as secure. GD -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Aurora only build
So are you telling me that standard Firefox depends on closed source binaries as well? I don't care about how free the license is. I'm talking about whether it can be built completely from source code. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Koh Choon Lin 2choon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 1:04 AM, AK aka...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Aurora is based on something called Firefox Portable. Last time I checked, this thing isn't even open source. Can someone clarify this? Or should I open a new thread? Aurora is a brand-less version of Firefox. It is considered to be more free than the Firefox binaries from Mozilla and is tri-licensed too. Portable app is a method of modifying a product (Firefox) into one which does not leave any trace on the running PC. -- Regards Koh Choon Lin ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Aurora only build
Actually, the Tor Browser bundle is built from Firefox Portable binaries. From README.dev: Using build-scripts/Makefile it is possible to create a working USB Tor bundle. It's limitations include: - It uses the FirefoxPortable binaries However, they do say you can build a custom version of Firefox from source and I guess you can use a similar build procedure to apply those patches in src/current-patches to the firefox c++ files. It's still pretty unclear, but I am testing it out, and I'll let you know how it turns out. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Andrew Lewman and...@torproject.orgwrote: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 13:16:05 -0700 AK aka...@gmail.com wrote: So are you telling me that standard Firefox depends on closed source binaries as well? I don't care about how free the license is. I'm talking about whether it can be built completely from source code. I suggest starting with the source, https://gitweb.torproject.org/torbrowser.git. We build tor browser bundle from source code, so can you. In fact, we encourage people to build their own. -- Andrew http://tpo.is/contact pgp 0x74ED336B ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux - First Release
It's not meant to be lightweight. It's meant to be a general purpose system that one would install on a hard drive, with a balance between privacy and usability, as well as various options for increasing or decreasing privacy based on personal needs. I want to eventually target newcomers to Linux. The 2.96 GB ISO contains: 1) The alternate Ubuntu installer with the standard Ubuntu (64bit) packages (Alternate installer is needed for full disk encryption). 2) Piratepack (standard binary) with all dependencies (required recommended) not in the default preinstalled Ubuntu packages (so that the full installation can be made offline). 3) The Ubuntu squashfs live image (64bit) with the binary version of piratepack plus all its dependencies (required recommended). 4) Liberte Linux 5) Tails Linux That's why the ISO is so large. But, this can easily fit on a DVD or 4GB usb stick, so I don't see how it's a problem. And no I'm not using OpenBSD for now, since I think Debian/Ubuntu is much more accessible for newcomers. As for design document, I still didn't write any formal documentation, but the source code is all out there, and the features list briefly explains all the modifications done to Ubuntu. I'm not sure what you mean by download helper, but to download this ISO, bittorrent is the current method I use. Thanks for the input On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 2:25 PM, M Robinson mr.m.robin...@gmail.com wrote: On 1/21/2012 3:13 PM, and...@torproject.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 02:33:05AM -0700, aka...@gmail.com wrote 3.0K bytes in 57 lines about: : This is a project I have been working on for the Pirate Party of Canada. : You can see the feature list and download links at http://piratelinux.org. : The video walk-through is at http://youtu.be/s9kj4pziojQ. This iso is 2.96GB? Jeez. I don't see any design document, or something that details what changes are made to standard ubuntu and why. I'm a regular OS Stuntman, but this seems like a bloated slipstream—with all due respect. Which download helper are you using? Thanks for the Bloody Vikings, I've never heard of it. No one ever uses OpenBSD for live security disks... -- GnuPG is Free Software (meaning that it respects your freedom). Extensible, customizable text editor---GNU Emacs; Where's yours? ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux
We want Pirate Linux to be for day to day use, so a Purely Live CD wouldn't make sense for that. We also want it to be easy to use for beginners, especially people who are new to Linux, so that's why we chose Ubuntu. But we can easily make a Debian version from that. We want the installer to choose Full Disk Encryption by default. It will also install Piratepack to perform the customization. On the boot menu the main options will be: - Try Ubuntu (Live CD with Piratepack, some video introductions tutorials on how to prepare the hard drive for a new OS) - Install Ubuntu (Install with Full disk encryption) - Start Liberte (A Live Privacy Enhanced OS like Tails) - Start Tails (Live mode) So, you can install the main Ubuntu based OS to your hard drive. And in times where you need extra privacy, you reboot with the disk and choose Start Liberte or Start Tails. All this can easily fit on one DVD, and will basically be a showcase of what our Party views as freedom. Of course, this is still in the building/testing phase, so the plans might change. Andrew. On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 10:31 AM, intrigeri intrig...@boum.org wrote: Hi, AK wrote (05 Aug 2011 01:44:05 GMT) : Soon we plan to create an ISO from this that will be based on Ubuntu. It will have a Live Boot feature and Full Disk Encryption. The Live Boot feature will allow someone to simply reboot their system from the Pirate Linux disc and choose to boot a Live Privacy Enhanced OS (such as Tails). Do you mean mutually exclusive Live Boot and Full Disk Encryption modes? More generally, I'd be happy to learn what makes your usecase / threat model / specification / implementation decisions different from Tails' ones [0], and to share as much work as we can. [0] https://tails.boum.org/contribute/design/ Bye, -- intrigeri intrig...@boum.org | GnuPG key @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/intrigeri.asc | OTR fingerprint @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/otr.asc | We're dreaming of something else. | Something more clandestine, something happier. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux
Ya its not just the Live CD aspect of it. But also, people aren't going to use Tor 24/7. So if all internet traffic goes through Tor, that could turn away users from using it day to day. But I don't know, I haven't tried Tails since a few months ago so maybe there are some new features I'm unaware of. Also, its the first time I hear about Haven. Looks interesting also. As for specifications documentation, I plan to write that up once I have a more complete package up and running. Probably in a few weeks...But for now feel free to test out piratepack, as its a pretty complete package right now. On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:52 PM, and...@torproject.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:31:04PM -0600, aka...@gmail.com wrote 6.2K bytes in 149 lines about: : We want Pirate Linux to be for day to day use, so a Purely Live CD wouldn't Purely livecd's can write to other storage though. I've used tails day to day when traveling with an encrypted fs on usb storage just fine. Tails also offers the ability to install to another storage device. However, the more choices the better. Tails is a fine solution. Others may like The Haven Project or Pirate Linux. Good luck. I encourage you to continue to publish your specifications and threat models so motivated users can make their own decisions. Peer review will only make you stronger. -- Andrew pgp key: 0x74ED336B ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux
Ya but people also like to stream movies, download torrents, video chat. So I'm not sure if Tor performs well enough for doing those things. On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 3:53 PM, and...@torproject.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 02:38:37PM -0600, aka...@gmail.com wrote 4.4K bytes in 107 lines about: : Ya its not just the Live CD aspect of it. But also, people aren't going to : use Tor 24/7. So if all internet traffic goes through Tor, that could turn That's just your assumption. I use tor 24/7 when I travel; or said another way, I only use tails when I travel because I don't trust the networks at hotels, conferences, and places I visit. I also use hidden services heavily to do mundane things like login to servers, check mail, git, etc even when not traveling. I may also be an outlier from the general population. -- Andrew pgp key: 0x74ED336B ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Pirate Linux
Sorry forgot to answer your first question. The sources are mostly taken from already quite trusted sources and can be verified by PGP signatures. You can also read the sources and since they get compiled on your computer, you know that what you read is what you get. Also, other people can read the sources and give reviews and you will know that those reviews actually correspond to what is running on your system. On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:18 PM, AK aka...@gmail.com wrote: I know, you still have to trust the standard Ubuntu programs such as gcc firefox. But, you already made the decision to trust those when you installed Ubuntu. The piratepack doesn't force you to trust any new repositories. On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Ted Smith ted...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 19:44 -0600, AK wrote: - No need to trust nonstandard binary executables. Polipo, tor, vidalia, piratepack binaries are automatically compiled from source on installation. How do I know that the sources are trustworthy? Or that the programs used to compile (or verify their trustworthyness) are trustworthy? ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
