Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
What about making a TorProject filter list for Adblock* users so that we all look the same to sites visited? Or go further and include (or add some functionality of) RequestPolicy into TBB. Its purpose is to ensure no URLs outside the domain you intended to visit are opened, and the user has to set up the cross-domain whitelist. Of course that breaks many Web 2.x(tm) sites but Torproject or a usergroup could make a set of initial rules that cover important sites and vetted https script sources such as jquery. Being in control of what gets into your browser seems to me a higher priority for those concerned with security and privacy than placating advertisers or reducing bandwidth. On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Roger Dingledine a...@mit.edu wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 04:10:03PM +0100, intrigeri wrote: Hi, Justaguy wrote (15 Dec 2014 13:44:05 GMT) : What if torbrowser would include adblock, this would reduce the amount of bandwith used, and thus increase the overal speeds @ tor See 5. No filters in https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser/design/#philosophy Yep. These are some good reasons to keep adblock et al out of Tor Browser. Another good reason mentioned on this thread is limiting attack surface. But that said, here are two good reasons to put it in: A) Reduction of bandwidth, as the original poster here pointed out. As a bonus, since some pages don't render until certain of the components are there, by fetching fewer components we could see speed-ups that are more than just about bandwidth. B) Potentially significant anonymity gains against certain attacks. If traffic confirmation attacks are trivial (I'm not saying we know they are, but it's simplest to act as if they are), and websites with ads cause you to reach out to many more destinations than you would otherwise, then each of those new destinations presents a new risk that an adversary could see traffic going over that path. Thus reducing the number of destinations -- especially common ones like the centralized ad servers -- could help a lot against this attack. For more context, see the The paper also makes me think about exit traffic patterns paragraph in https://blog.torproject.org/blog/improving-tors-anonymity-changing-guard-parameters and the discussion around it. --Roger -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 12:08 PM, krishna e bera k...@cyblings.on.ca wrote: What about making a TorProject filter list for Adblock* users so that we all look the same to sites visited? Tails uses ABP what about including the same list that they use and disable subscriptions_autoupdate. -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 04:10:03PM +0100, intrigeri wrote: Hi, Justaguy wrote (15 Dec 2014 13:44:05 GMT) : What if torbrowser would include adblock, this would reduce the amount of bandwith used, and thus increase the overal speeds @ tor See 5. No filters in https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser/design/#philosophy Yep. These are some good reasons to keep adblock et al out of Tor Browser. Another good reason mentioned on this thread is limiting attack surface. But that said, here are two good reasons to put it in: A) Reduction of bandwidth, as the original poster here pointed out. As a bonus, since some pages don't render until certain of the components are there, by fetching fewer components we could see speed-ups that are more than just about bandwidth. B) Potentially significant anonymity gains against certain attacks. If traffic confirmation attacks are trivial (I'm not saying we know they are, but it's simplest to act as if they are), and websites with ads cause you to reach out to many more destinations than you would otherwise, then each of those new destinations presents a new risk that an adversary could see traffic going over that path. Thus reducing the number of destinations -- especially common ones like the centralized ad servers -- could help a lot against this attack. For more context, see the The paper also makes me think about exit traffic patterns paragraph in https://blog.torproject.org/blog/improving-tors-anonymity-changing-guard-parameters and the discussion around it. --Roger -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
Also, from a less philosophical POV, adding any add-ons increases attack surface. -- Greg Norcie (gnor...@indiana.edu) PhD Student, Security Informatics Indiana University On 12/15/14, 10:10 AM, intrigeri wrote: Hi, Justaguy wrote (15 Dec 2014 13:44:05 GMT) : What if torbrowser would include adblock, this would reduce the amount of bandwith used, and thus increase the overal speeds @ tor See 5. No filters in https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser/design/#philosophy Cheers, -- intrigeri -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
Greg Norcie wrote: Also, from a less philosophical POV, adding any add-ons increases attack surface. Yeah. Aside from all of the other legitimate reasons why to not bundle an ad blocker with TBB, this is also a large amount of code (and filtering rules) that are maintained by an outside entity. Which makes a pretty decent attack vector. And also, if you are a filter/autoblocker/adblock/etc, you're deferring to someone else's judgment about what you should be able to see or read. I say that as a user of adblock who is okay with the tradeoffs (and I whitelist ads on my favorite ad-supported sites). I'd be curious about the pros/cons of bundling in something like Privacy Badger, which has a bit of a different approach than things like Adblock Plus. But this still goes back to the obvious blob of outside code and filtering issues that adblock et al have. I think the best answer goes back to user choice -- users can add these and other extensions if they'd like, but Tor's software is designed to help bypass filters, so baking in filters feels like a step back. best, Griffin -- The apparent safety of modern life is just a shallow skin atop an ocean of blood, guts and bricked devices. ~Pearce Delphin -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Perhaps an internal fork of it could be made specifically for Tor to make the black/whitelisting process accountable only to the interests of anonymity and the Tor network. As I understand it, AdBlock maintains a whitelist where providers can pay to be excluded from their blockers and so it has a commercial interest which is potentially very dangerous when combined with the factors already mentioned. - -T Griffin Boyce: Greg Norcie wrote: Also, from a less philosophical POV, adding any add-ons increases attack surface. Yeah. Aside from all of the other legitimate reasons why to not bundle an ad blocker with TBB, this is also a large amount of code (and filtering rules) that are maintained by an outside entity. Which makes a pretty decent attack vector. And also, if you are a filter/autoblocker/adblock/etc, you're deferring to someone else's judgment about what you should be able to see or read. I say that as a user of adblock who is okay with the tradeoffs (and I whitelist ads on my favorite ad-supported sites). I'd be curious about the pros/cons of bundling in something like Privacy Badger, which has a bit of a different approach than things like Adblock Plus. But this still goes back to the obvious blob of outside code and filtering issues that adblock et al have. I think the best answer goes back to user choice -- users can add these and other extensions if they'd like, but Tor's software is designed to help bypass filters, so baking in filters feels like a step back. best, Griffin - -- Activist, anarchist and a bit of a dreamer. Current Fingerprint: E771 BE69 4696 F742 DB94 AA8C 5C2A 8C5A 0CCA 4983 Key-ID: 0CCA4983 Master Fingerprint: DDEF AB9B 1962 5D09 4264 2558 1F23 39B7 EF10 09F0 Key-ID: EF1009F0 Twitter: @CthulhuSec XMPP: thecthulhu at jabber.ccc.de XMPP-OTR: 4321B19F A9A3462C FE64BAC7 294C8A7E A53CC966 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUlaZqAAoJEFwqjFoMykmDv0oQAInkPYW9g5m1s2RhRJrls5u9 GkXbpt0tLL5htWoZs+/BAVz7gUYLBXdCw6cn1esgvSBoUmjg513D93fcL+LgpZw7 M6lmFhzLyV8TTIwG7eVilgvrH569BXvCggMEdmoOc5kk2RaZ6sFjgsZSqlUg12pt xn++4YFk5XcSnvE3ZLgKQSBlY9A7vvtO0cpLzAq/k6RsfaMZZC7tfBVJ/FMh/FtV 95alaP7tpCMRqBcPyTv9rzISoTmtc6CdfaNXgBmjv3bcRQfTzPS03/4s9VjmPO20 qO0UNbW+TAUoSLLDpTBbMdRqVWHmaoTOdVtgkSj0ZKcFVBQdavcdL5ThiGJY/+ao BBzpJ+KrvNKUeECDm+q9lB+t2pyQr741WcACDF2bzOC+YOrPa77WM5dtG0eLKAIA ZpjMnXCmvPNX/H+RJsI3KhEhb1fKTI6sXAdrW5bZiC2AUmRrU2e1QZPPEWN/cJY4 zv+B1MDklTLHpqU1ZZpEM9Y9zOtVFZTPgpBP1u4CqGIr/hPpi99NrYtQJiIU1iBZ Gv7lCRwEzmMK+InUh+yDV5JanVVxpmo9n5VMgcy+6vhYgqPcwnan7vunJTy95sQ3 8yXQ7bOE6dyE2+6PcTY9H+SAn+HZCHT53w3Odn/tvFyrZAoVdjItlPCSFC96yNuc tPZMkSLskyB8irO1lWez =xo/6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
On 12/20/2014 11:40 AM, Thomas White wrote: Perhaps an internal fork of it could be made specifically for Tor to make the black/whitelisting process accountable only to the interests of anonymity and the Tor network. As I understand it, AdBlock maintains a whitelist where providers can pay to be excluded from their blockers and so it has a commercial interest which is potentially very dangerous when combined with the factors already mentioned. Enter Adblock Edge: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adblock-edge/ That said, considering recent events like the continuing Cloudflare fiasco, I tentatively agree with the TBB policy of not including ad-blockers by default. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
[tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
I had an idea last night What if torbrowser would include adblock, this would reduce the amount of bandwith used, and thus increase the overal speeds @ tor -- https://justaguy.pw Contact: Irc, justaguy @ Freenode or OFTC OTR fingerprint OFTC: FF6D1AC2 13F38B15 EDB21522 D3530A6F 6EE01996 OTR fingerprint freenode: 293FAFD3 1155A465 C5B77015 B65E8AEC 63A1AF21 -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
Hi, Justaguy wrote (15 Dec 2014 13:44:05 GMT) : What if torbrowser would include adblock, this would reduce the amount of bandwith used, and thus increase the overal speeds @ tor See 5. No filters in https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser/design/#philosophy Cheers, -- intrigeri -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
On 12/15/2014 04:10 PM, intrigeri wrote: Hi, Justaguy wrote (15 Dec 2014 13:44:05 GMT) : What if torbrowser would include adblock, this would reduce the amount of bandwith used, and thus increase the overal speeds @ tor See 5. No filters in https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser/design/#philosophy Cheers, -- intrigeri Thanks. -- https://justaguy.pw Contact: Irc, justaguy @ Freenode or OFTC OTR fingerprint OFTC: FF6D1AC2 13F38B15 EDB21522 D3530A6F 6EE01996 OTR fingerprint freenode: 293FAFD3 1155A465 C5B77015 B65E8AEC 63A1AF21 -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 14:44 +0100, Justaguy wrote: I had an idea last night What if torbrowser would include adblock, this would reduce the amount of bandwith used, and thus increase the overal speeds @ tor I like ad blockers and use them myself with and without Tor, but having one enabled by default in the Tor Browser would give website operators an incentive to block Tor users. That doesn't mean that it's a bad idea, but it's definitely a factor that needs to be considered. --ll signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Including Adblock to TBB to save bandwith
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Daniel Roskams rocket_peng...@riseup.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 02:44:05PM +0100, Justaguy wrote: I had an idea last night What if torbrowser would include adblock, this would reduce the amount of bandwith used, and thus increase the overal speeds @ tor I think this is a really good idea, it would help make tor faster and get rid of annoying ads at the same time. Hello all, Using less bandwidth per user won't necessarily make the network faster for the individual user. There is already a surplus of bandwidth available, as seen here: https://metrics.torproject.org/bandwidth.html FWIW, I use an adblocking plugin on my TBB because it is how I prefer to view webpages. I'm aware of why it cannot be included by default, as others have stated. -Jeremy -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
