[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
Not sure who all the upstream(s) involved might be, but from my personal PoV at least you can add all the options you like… the topic gets harder if we talk defaults & changing (e.g.) the lists completely (like that tabular verbose-explosion thingy from apk or whatever it was). At some point it might make sense to extended apt-patterns so that current (and future) lists can be expressed in them and then add some more options to format those lists/tables/… at which point we could have different templates and so options/choices galore. I think aptitude has formatting to some extend of its lists. One of my first apt patches that was never merged was actually about reordering/coloring the lists… that failed, so I am very positive that a much bigger yak will be shaved more easily and faster many years later. ;) Precedence of the initial ask is 'can be autoremoved' btw, which is not displayed, displays a full list, an even fuller list in version mode or displays a single line with how many packages could be autoremoved depending on config. P.S.: On a multi-arch system nearly every Depends is a choice even without or-groups: given that you e.g. pick banana:amd64 or banana:i386 for an M-A:foreign banana. And the t64 transition added a quadrillion of real vs. virtual bananas at least until everyone depends on bananat64. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
Geekley I personally agree and would go a lot further and hide even most dependencies (you don't really care which libraries you are installing, just about choices made, e.g. if there's an a | b dependency it should tell you that it picked a). So if you want to think about it that terse mode would end up looking something like: Installing 5 specified packages, 10 upgrades and 30 new dependencies: - Choosing banana to satisfy foo Depends: banana | apple Removing 30 packages: - package1 ... At the moment there is no option in between full output and no output, though, and there is opposition to adding more output modes upstream. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
In the proposed fix, will there be some sort of flag and/or configuration for apt and apt-get to let me NOT see this list of "deferred due to phasing" packages? I agree it's important to list them for users who want to see it, but it's also important to not bloat the output with a bunch of extra info most users should not (or won't want to) worry about. Often this list of packages is quite long and distracting. There should be something like APT::Get::Show-Deferred = --show-deferred and --no-show-deferred. IMHO, not listing should be the default. I think most users would not need such verbosity, and by default you could simply show a message like "Some updates are deferred for you due to phasing" if this list would have been non-empty. When users see this message, they can always use --show-deferred if they need the list; this would change the message to "The following updates are deferred for you due to phasing:" (list of packages). If they use --no-show-deferred, then not even this message would appear. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
This bug was fixed in the package apt - 2.7.11 --- apt (2.7.11) unstable; urgency=medium [ David Kalnischkies ] * Remove erroneous -a flag from apt-get synopsis in manpage * Support -a for setting host architecture in apt-get source -b [ Julian Andres Klode ] * For phasing, check if current version is a security update, not just previous ones (LP: #2051181) * Add public phased update API * Add a new ?phasing pattern * Add the ?security pattern * Show a separate list of upgrades deferred due to phasing (LP: #1988819) -- Julian Andres Klode Tue, 13 Feb 2024 16:31:00 +0100 ** Changed in: apt (Ubuntu) Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
2.7.11 is in proposed now. ** Changed in: apt (Ubuntu) Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Fix Committed Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
Proposed fix in: https://salsa.debian.org/apt- team/apt/-/merge_requests/327/diffs?commit_id=483e3b5c49762306c0a9f54117fd70cff43af4be The corner case with kept back packages not due to phasing ends up with a notice before the prompt: Reading package lists... Building dependency tree... Calculating upgrade... The following NEW packages will be installed: phased-new The following updates have been deferred due to phasing: phased phased-dep phased-depends-ready-dep The following packages have been kept back: depends-phased-dep ready-dep The following packages will be upgraded: depends-phased-new phased-security 2 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 5 not upgraded. Need to get 0 B/126 B of archives. After this operation, 43.0 kB of additional disk space will be used. N: Some packages may have been kept back due to phasing. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] There may be a nicer way to do this. ** Changed in: apt (Ubuntu) Status: Triaged => In Progress -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: In Progress Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
One thing I just noticed is that if you have something like gnome-shell and mutter where gnome-shell depends on the new mutter and only mutter is "not for us" we end up with something like: The following packages have been kept back: gnome-shell gnome-shell-common mutter with phasing specific message this would look like this: The following packages have been kept back as they are phasing: mutter The following packages have been kept back: gnome-shell gnome-shell-common Because we kept back mutter and it is phasing, but the gnome-shell update is not anymore, it is kept back because it has broken dependencies on the mutter that is phasing. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
Generally for reproducing issues I set Phased-Update-Percentage to 0 on the packages the user had phased so it's independent of machine-id, it's not been a problem in my experience to reproduce issues. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
@juliank Thanks for the tip about machine id. May I also ask, for repeatability, is there an official/supported way to run (unit) tests on the upgrade logic alone, say, by feeding `/var/lib/dpkg/status`, index files and maybe some environment variables/APT::* preferences to `apt- get` and then running a simulation? As you have seen in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/2017399, the least amount of state for a reproducible report involved a livecd iso. And if I had been much further down the road it would have been impossible to trace the issue to the "original" state that everybody else also has access to. Regarding md5, the first or last 64 bits (or 32bits for i386) already give a good random number for this purpose. There is no need to deal with 128bit integers. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
I did not make any changes to the design when moving it from Update- Manager in apt, it's been this way for 10 years now, it's a proven concept. The initial implementation used and md5 but the math gets complex when dealing with 128 bit integers. You can easily override the machine-id for apt by setting the apt.conf option, /etc/machine-id is a default. It's general consensus that everything should be using the same machine id though. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
To add a data point and save others from preventable headaches, I encountered a related bug and reported it here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/2017399 If anyone cares, here are my two cents regarding phased updates: https://github.com/xwcal/ubuntu-apt-bug#a-short-critique-of-phased-updates Or if lack of markdown formatting is not an issue, here is goes: # A Short Critique of Phased Updates Some thoughts after I stumbled on phased updates during a recent migration from Bionic to Jammy: ## Randomness and Repeatability Per [Debian repository specs](https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Format#Phased-Update- Percentage), randomization is achieved by the following means: ``` To determine whether an update is applicable to a given machine, a client shall seed a random number generator (APT uses std::minstd_rand) with the string: sourcePackage-version-machineID where sourcePackage is the name of the source package, version the version, and machineID the contents of /etc/machine-id. It shall then extract an integer from a uniform integer distribution between 0 and 100. ``` To the uninitiated: this is not how a random number generator is meant to be used. If you want a repeatable sequence of random numbers, you seed the RNG once and then draw the desired number of samples. You don't reseed the RNG for each new sample, since if your seeds are already random, then the RNG step is pointless, whereas if your seeds aren't random, say, in an extreme case, if you always seed with the same number, your "random" number is guaranteed to be the same each time. To achieve repeatable randomness with respect to both the package and machine, there is an obviously superior choice in terms of both randomness and portability: **just use a cryptographic hash like sha256**. This begs the question of how repeatable the design really is. To quote [https://wiki.debian.org/MachineId](https://wiki.debian.org/MachineId): ``` what is the machine id actually used for? a comprehensive list is probably not possible without grepping the code ``` That's to say, although for repeatable experiments it's foreseeably necessary to mess with the machine ID or share it publicly, the consequences of such tinkering or disclosure are hard to assess, since nobody knows for sure how and where the machine ID is and will be used. This leads to an easily conceivable alternative: since apt only uses the machine ID for the purpose of repeatable randomization, how about designating another user configurable value stored in, say `/etc/apt/phased-update-random-seed`, only for this particular purpose and by default initialized to the machine ID? ## User Choice >From [this response](https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/2017399/comments/1) to my bug report (one question I forgot to ask is why phase security updates at all) and a comment on [askubuntu](https://askubuntu.com/questions/1431940/what-are-phased- updates-and-why-does-ubuntu-use-them) that doesn't cite any source, it does appear that consideration has been given regarding the need to treat different packages (at least different classes of packages) differently when it comes to phasing. It's conceivable that a user may have preferences over how each particular package is phased. For example, if a GUI component has a troubled history with my Nvidia graphics, I may prefer to be highly conservative and wait until the last minute, but this shouldn't prevent me from being adventurous when it comes to other phased packages. Unfortunately, it seems that a user currently has to decide between all or nothing, ie. between `APT::Get::Always-Include-Phased-Updates` or `APT::Get::Never-Include-Phased-Updates`. How about allowing per package user choice between Always and Never? Overall, I think for a such a prominent change to the cornerstone of probably half of today's Linux infrastructure, much remains to be desired. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
My vote is to remove this "phased updates" feature until the UI can be fixed. Right now I run `apt update` and it tells me "N packages can be upgraded", then I run `apt upgrade` and it tells me no packages will be upgraded because "N packages are held back". There is no mention of "phased updates". Very confused, wasting my time on this after upgrading to 22.04. Have been using Ubuntu since 2005 and found this very confusing. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
After further investigation, I would say that "Discover" wants to upgrade a package (libmm-glib0) notwithstanding the fact that it is phased and that apt does not want to upgrade it. Funny enough, Discover does not indicate the other phased packages (it is up to 24!) as upgradable. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
There is a further problem, I do not know if it should be a separate issue. The updates icon in the system tray now appears also when there are in fact no updates that can be applied. Don't know if this actually depends on the presence of updates that are phased out or on the presence of Ubuntu Pro (esm-apps) that are not enabled. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1988819] Re: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately
** Summary changed: - When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should say nothing + When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1988819 Title: When apt keeps back packages due to phased updates, it should list them separately Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: After phased updates have been introduced, it may happen that apt upgrade shows packages as upgradable but ends up not upgrading them. In this case the packages are indicated as being "kept back". Unfortunately, the feedback provided about this to the user is not very informative. The user sees the packages being kept back and thinks something is going wrong on the system. When packages are kept back because of phased updates, apt should say so e.g., it should say that the upgrade is delayed. Incidentally note that aptitude does not respect phased updates. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: apt 2.4.7 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.15.0-47.51-generic 5.15.46 Uname: Linux 5.15.0-47-generic x86_64 ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: KDE Date: Tue Sep 6 10:05:14 2022 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-16 (933 days ago) InstallationMedia: Kubuntu 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017) SourcePackage: apt UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-06-03 (94 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1988819/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
