Re: [Toybox] abduco+dvtm tmux screen
Marc André Tanner mat@... wrote: In general I would like to see toybox focus on clean, POSIX compilant replacements of the basic utilities (thing core/find utils, sed, awk etc) instead of duplicating stuff like tmux. Agreed. The only reason why I mentioned tmux is because Rob mentioned[1], in passing, the idea of putting screen into Toybox. If he puts in any terminal multiplexer, I'd prefer tmux instead of screen. But, in truth, I too would be happier if toybox would focus on the basics rather than on terminal multiplexers. :) ^ [1]. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.toybox/1621/focus=1654 ___ Toybox mailing list Toybox@lists.landley.net http://lists.landley.net/listinfo.cgi/toybox-landley.net
[Toybox] Screen vs. tmux (was: optional fatter cat(1))
Rob Landley rob@... wrote: I plan to implement vi over the next year, but it's one of the four realy big commands required by posix (sed, awk, sh, vi) and I've been debugging sed against real-world data for _weeks_ now. [...] There are some others (the kernel build requires bc now, if I'm doing less and vi I should be able to do screen, and rsync is really useful...) but right now I'm focused on the list for 1.0, and there are a lot of smaller commands (and the giant backlog of pending cleanups) that could get knocked off the list faster... In this message, I will tell you why I think toybox should emulate tmux instead of GNU Screen. Let me begin. GNU Screen, a terminal multiplexer, is very useful. Still, I've since switched to tmux. It's a newer terminal multiplexer, and is BSD-licensed. It is true that GNU Screen has now started making releases again for the first time in half a decade. Still, I like tmux so much that I don't plan to switch back to Screen. tmux makes certain operations easier.[1] For example: It ships with preconfigured keybindings (C-b 0, C-b 1, ..., C-b 9) which let you jump to low-numbered windows in just a few keystrokes. Another example: To renumber a window, you need only hit five keys (C-b . 9 RET), instead of nine (C-a : n u TAB 9 RET). tmux is also easier to learn. For example: It shows a status line (tab bar) by default, instead of forcing users to mess with complex configuration options just to get a status line. See screenshot[2]. tmux is included in the software repositories of Ubuntu, Debian stable, and other distros. tmux's basic keybindings are fairly similar to Screen's. But, instead of Ctrl+A, tmux's default prefix is Ctrl+B. (This is reconfigurable.) You can find a tmux reference card[3] on the Web. Dear Rob: I know you mention Screen in your todo.txt file[4]. But please consider instead mentioning tmux. Those who are familiar only with good old Screen can either adapt to the nicer user interface that tmux provides, or can download and install Screen themselves. Cheers, --Jason P.S. I thank everyone on this list for maintaining Toybox. My next Android device will be a more pleasant to work with, thanks to you all. ^ [1]. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/is-tmux-the- gnu-screen-killer/ ^ [2]. http://tmux.sf.net/tmux3.png ^ [3]. http://www.mechanicalkeys.com/files/os/notes/tm.html ^ [4]. http://www.landley.net/code/toybox/todo.txt ___ Toybox mailing list Toybox@lists.landley.net http://lists.landley.net/listinfo.cgi/toybox-landley.net
Re: [Toybox] Getting Toybox into Android before the NetBSD userland wins out
Rob Landley rob@... wrote: Where is the android mailing list? See http://source.android.com/community/. The main Android mailing list is called android-platform. If you want to submit patches to Android, then you must either: * Own an Android device, or * Run Android on your PC. (Android-x86 runs fine in a VM). If you are willing to test Toybox to make sure it works on Android, and to submit a patch to the Android code-review system which will add Toybox to Android, then you should write to android-contrib instead. Tip: If you buy an Android device, may I suggest you choose one which is both possible and easy to root. (But note that rooting a device may void your warranty.) I've been under the impression that android development was internal to Google? Android is not a fully-open-source product. And Android as distributed on most smartphones and tablets definitely includes lots of closed-source drivers, plus other closed-source software such as Google Maps. (There exists an Replicant OS project which I believe tries to write open-source drivers, but this is difficult work.) Also, the latest betas of Android are often mostly-closed-source until they leave the beta phase. This is to prevent device manufacturers from shipping beta OSes. But much of Android _is_ open-source software. And, fortunately, http://android.googlesource.com/platform/system/core/+/master , which holds the basic command-line tools, appears to be 100% open-source software. If anybody wants to do this, I'm all for it... Splendid! Today, I've filed a feature request in the Android public issue tracker. I estimate that it could take a couple of days until it finally gets assigned to Elliott Hughes, and then a couple more days until he replies. ___ Toybox mailing list Toybox@lists.landley.net http://lists.landley.net/listinfo.cgi/toybox-landley.net
[Toybox] Getting Toybox into Android before the NetBSD userland wins out
Over time, Android has gradually been copying more and more of the NetBSD source code into the Git repository which holds their toolbox command.[*] ^ [*]. See, for example, this change: http://android.googlesource.com/platform/system/core/+/ fd4c6b0a3a25921a9fe24691a695d715aecb6afe I still prefer Toybox. For one thing, the -h help built into various Toybox commands tends to be far better. (Why is the -h help built into various NetBSD commands so skimpy? I guess the developers assume that all users have a manpage viewer installed. Well, Android includes no such viewer.) I think that it would be unwise to wait until Toybox hits 1.0 before trying to get Toybox into Android. The longer the project waits, the better the NetBSD userland will be integrated into Android and the more accustomed the Android team will become to that userland's quirks. I humbly suggest that perhaps the best thing to do would be to visit the Android mailing list today, and to float the idea of getting _some_ parts of Toybox into Android. Perhaps start by suggesting that Toybox could provide some useful things that Android doesn't yet include: for example, dos2unix, unix2dos, nice, renice, sort, uniq, usleep, tac, tee, yes, and acpi. Once Toybox gets into Android, it might then be possible to convince the Android maintainers to provide symlinks from /system/bin to _all_ of the reasonably-finished parts of Toybox. What do you think of my idea? Kind regards, -- Jason Spiro: computer consultant. Improve your kids' or your workers' productivity. If you'd like an Internet filter installed in your home or workplace, contact me today. +1 (416) 992-3445 / http://www.jspiro.com/. ___ Toybox mailing list Toybox@lists.landley.net http://lists.landley.net/listinfo.cgi/toybox-landley.net
