[TruthTalk] Just in time for the 4th!
\o/ !HALALU YAH! \o/Greetingsin the Matchless Name of YahShua! The Declaration of Independence was penned (pun intended) in the state chartered to William Penn by the crown. This was done with the hope that Penn and the Quakers he joined league with would depart from England. American history books routinely tell of Penn's English imprisonment for his faith. However, they never tell that it was a specific aspect of his faith for which he was imprisoned. Even his beloved Quakers have lost sight and left behind that aspect of Penn's faith. Today people commonly think of quietness and pacificsm when they think of Quakers. In fact, the first Quakers were the street preachers and open air evangelists of their day. Penn's Quakers drove the Baptists of their day that had previously been the vociferous ones to the indoors and quiet. Presbyterians, Anglicans and other religious groups persecuted the Quakers. Puritans in the colonies who had escaped England and persecution themselves HANGED Quakers -- men and women -- for the very reason that England had only imprisoned William Penn. They did so before the Pennsylvania grant that provided haven for Penn's Quakers. As other faiths finally had refused further public debate with Penn and his Quakers the printing press became Penn's new pulpit. 'The Sandy Foundation Shaken' scandalized England. Penn was arrested and imprisoned in the Tower of London. Dr. Henchman, Bishop of London, resolved that Penn should either publicly recant or languish the rest of his life in prison. Penn, ever loquacious, gave a lengthy response that included the following brief portion: " my prison shall be my grave, before I will budge a jot; for I owe my conscience to no mortal man; I have no need to fear. God will make amends for all." Penn then answered with another writing, 'Innocency with her Open Face'. Penn was jailed because it was said that he denied God. It took me almost 20 years to secure copy of these writings five years ago. They have only recently FINALLY been published in a volume of Penn's writings. An archivist of the old line Quaker group, 'Society of Friends' procured a copy for me after a long search noting to me that "they were much harder to locate than I had expected". "I must say that the title sounds embarrassing to me," he wrote further. The first of three subtitles to 'The Sandy Foundation Shaken' is, "One God, subsisting in three distinct and separate persons -- REFUTED". Penn denied the trinity doctrine in 'The Sandy Foundation Shaken' and that was twisted to say that he therefore denied God. Penn gave answer with detailed reasonings that "then is Christ God" and conversely "then is God Christ" as only one person rather than two or three separate persons in his 'Innocency with her Open Face'. The charge that he denied God was shown therefore to be false and his release thereby secured. He only denied that the trinity is God or that God is a trinity. Ah, how I do LOVE history and TRUTH! William Penn a man after my own heart. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, (Bless The LORD) Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] Just in time for the 4th!
Chris:You have 'penned' a misapprehension of The Triune God (One Being, Three Persons). When I met a man who believed the earth to be flat I discovered that there was no conversation to be had.He needed for me to see that it (the earth) was, in fact, flat. I couldn't.I still can't. (True story) Can one make a case for that which 'is not'? Of course. We all do it all the time. Rational(ism) cannot, I believe, bring resolution to this matter (Triune/Oneness). Revelation, followed by the empirical/theoretical, can. Happy '4th" to y'all. - Original Message - From: Chris Barr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 04, 2004 02:04 Subject: [TruthTalk] Just in time for the 4th! \o/ !HALALU YAH! \o/Greetingsin the Matchless Name of YahShua! The Declaration of Independence was penned (pun intended) in the state chartered to William Penn by the crown. This was done with the hope that Penn and the Quakers he joined league with would depart from England. American history books routinely tell of Penn's English imprisonment for his faith. However, they never tell that it was a specific aspect of his faith for which he was imprisoned. Even his beloved Quakers have lost sight and left behind that aspect of Penn's faith. Today people commonly think of quietness and pacificsm when they think of Quakers. In fact, the first Quakers were the street preachers and open air evangelists of their day. Penn's Quakers drove the Baptists of their day that had previously been the vociferous ones to the indoors and quiet. Presbyterians, Anglicans and other religious groups persecuted the Quakers. Puritans in the colonies who had escaped England and persecution themselves HANGED Quakers -- men and women -- for the very reason that England had only imprisoned William Penn. They did so before the Pennsylvania grant that provided haven for Penn's Quakers. As other faiths finally had refused further public debate with Penn and his Quakers the printing press became Penn's new pulpit. 'The Sandy Foundation Shaken' scandalized England. Penn was arrested and imprisoned in the Tower of London. Dr. Henchman, Bishop of London, resolved that Penn should either publicly recant or languish the rest of his life in prison. Penn, ever loquacious, gave a lengthy response that included the following brief portion: " my prison shall be my grave, before I will budge a jot; for I owe my conscience to no mortal man; I have no need to fear. God will make amends for all." Penn then answered with another writing, 'Innocency with her Open Face'. Penn was jailed because it was said that he denied God. It took me almost 20 years to secure copy of these writings five years ago. They have only recently FINALLY been published in a volume of Penn's writings. An archivist of the old line Quaker group, 'Society of Friends' procured a copy for me after a long search noting to me that "they were much harder to locate than I had expected". "I must say that the title sounds embarrassing to me," he wrote further. The first of three subtitles to 'The Sandy Foundation Shaken' is, "One God, subsisting in three distinct and separate persons -- REFUTED". Penn denied the trinity doctrine in 'The Sandy Foundation Shaken' and that was twisted to say that he therefore denied God. Penn gave answer with detailed reasonings that "then is Christ God" and conversely "then is God Christ" as only one person rather than two or three separate persons in his 'Innocency with her Open Face'. The charge that he denied God was shown therefore to be false and his release thereby secured. He only denied that the trinity is God or that God is a trinity. Ah, how I do LOVE history and TRUTH! William Penn a man after my own heart. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, (Bless The LORD) Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] Just in time for the 4th!
That is very interesting about Penn. I lived just outside of the town where George Reed lived and it is historic. They have celebrations every year on Separation Day which is the beginning of June. The town was Dutch and the religions were predominately Anglican and Presbyterian. It is still that way to a large degree. I never realized they persecuted him though. It is interesting to me that nearly every phase of their life was closely tied to the church and today they basically worship on Sunday Morning only. How far many have strayed from the "founders" purposes! Laura
Lance -- Re: [TruthTalk] Just in time for the 4th!
\o/ !HALALU YAH!
\o/Greetingsin the Matchless Name of YahShua!
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 07/04/2004 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Just in time for
the 4th!
Chris:You have 'penned' a misapprehension of The
Triune God (One Being, Three Persons).
You are entitled to your opinion just as you are entitled to be
wrong.
When I met a man who believed the earth to
be flat I discovered that there was no conversation to be had.He needed
for me to see that it (the earth) was, in fact, flat. I couldn't.I still
can't. (True story)
I have met many a man who believed The Almighty to be One Being, Three
Persons. Often there is no conversation to be had. Many a man need
for me to see that He (The Almighty) was One Being, Three Persons. Many
years ago I could. For even more years now I can't. (True story).
Can one make a case for that which 'is not'?
Of course. We all do it all the time.
Well stop it then -- leave the trinity behind and walk forward
into Truth. I did it as have countless millions.
Rational(ism) cannot, I believe, bring resolution
to this matter (Triune/Oneness). Revelation, followed by the
empirical/theoretical, can.
Amein! Agree with your statement.
Ahava b' YahShua
(Love in The
SAVIOUR)
Baruch YHVH,
(Bless The
LORD)
Chris Barr
a servant of
YHVH
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 07/04/2004 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Just in time for
the 4th!
Chris:You have 'penned' a misapprehension of The
Triune God (One Being, Three Persons).
When I met a man who believed the earth to
be flat I discovered that there was no conversation to be had.He needed
for me to see that it (the earth) was, in fact, flat. I couldn't.I still
can't. (True story)
Can one make a case for that which 'is
not'? Of course. We all do it all the time. Rational(ism) cannot, I believe,
bring resolution to this matter (Triune/Oneness). Revelation, followed by the
empirical/theoretical, can.
Happy '4th" to y'all.
- Original Message -
From:
Chris Barr
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: July 04, 2004 02:04
Subject: [TruthTalk] Just in time for
the 4th!
\o/ !HALALU YAH!
\o/Greetingsin the Matchless Name of YahShua!
The Declaration of Independence was penned (pun
intended) in the state chartered to William Penn by the crown. This was done
with the hope that Penn and the Quakers he joined league with would depart
from England.
American history books routinely tell of Penn's English imprisonment for
his faith. However, they never tell that it was a specific aspect of his
faith for which he was imprisoned. Even his beloved Quakers have lost sight
and left behind that aspect of Penn's faith.
Today people commonly think of quietness and pacificsm when they think of
Quakers. In fact, the first Quakers were the street preachers and open air
evangelists of their day. Penn's Quakers drove the Baptists of their day
that had previously been the vociferous ones to the indoors and quiet.
Presbyterians, Anglicans and other religious groups persecuted the
Quakers. Puritans in the colonies who had escaped England and persecution
themselves HANGED Quakers -- men and women -- for the very reason that
England had only imprisoned William Penn. They did so before the
Pennsylvania grant that provided haven for Penn's Quakers.
As other faiths finally had refused further public debate with Penn and
his Quakers the printing press became Penn's new pulpit.
'The Sandy Foundation Shaken' scandalized England. Penn was arrested and
imprisoned in the Tower of London.
Dr. Henchman, Bishop of London, resolved that Penn should either publicly
recant or languish the rest of his life in prison.
Penn, ever loquacious, gave a lengthy response that included the
following brief portion:
"
my prison shall be my grave, before I will budge a jot; for I owe my
conscience to no mortal man; I have no need to fear. God will make amends
for all."
Penn then answered with another writing, 'Innocency with her Open
Face'.
Penn was jailed because it was said that he denied God.
It took me almost 20 years to secure copy of these writings five years
ago. They have only recently FINALLY been published in a volume of Penn's
writings.
An archivist of the old line Quaker group, 'Society of Friends' procured
a copy for me after a long search noting to me that "they were much harder
to locate than I had expected".
"I must say that the title sounds embarrassing to me," he wrote
further.
The first of three subtitles to 'The Sandy Foundation Shaken' is, "One
God, subsisting in three distinct an
