RE: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
David Miller wrote: The problem is that you do not believe me, so study some history about calendars like Blaine has and you too will understand. Judy wrote: You must be behind on your reading David because this thread is resolved; I disagree with you on some other issues but this is not one of them. The post to which I responded was only three days old. You and Kevin mocked me and raked me over pretty good for this very mundane point of fact that I kept saying was very simple. It seems to me that both you and Kevin should apologize and clearly state that you were wrong on this point. I'm not saying this because I need you to be contrite, but because I think you need it. It will work some humility in you and in Kevin, if you both can admit when you were wrong, especially after the mocking and demeaning posts you all directed at me for trying to explain how simple the concept was. At the very least, it would be interesting to see if Kevin can admit to a Mormon like Blaine that he was wrong and the Mormon was right! :-) Bill Taylor has been posting some very interesting material, and instead of appreciating it, you guys have expressed disdain for what he has shared. I have found his posts to be made with great humility, especially considering his great level of knowledge, yet many here seem threatened by his knowledge and seek to marginalize him. We really should appreciate that he has taken time to explain himself to people who are clearly way below his level of understanding. He is like a college professor speaking to high school students, and instead of the students appreciating the opportunity, they deride the professor as being useful for entertainment value only! I am truly disheartened by this behavior. I only can hope that Bill has enough patience and time to bear with us through this. One of Bill's posts was extremely insightful. Using the Pelagian / Augustine controversy over grace, he explained how someone might be right about something but cause some bad fruit by how he stresses his particular understanding. What great insight! Bill seems to grasp the idea that we would be better off learning to synthesize our viewpoints together into a complete whole, where perhaps a synergy might develop through such mutual cooperation. I truly believe that this is exactly what happened with the early church as we read about its birth in Acts 2. Unfortunately, you do not seem able to appreciate this incredible insight that he has shared. Instead of even trying to bring together your knowledge with his, you prefer to beat your drum and claim that you know the TRUTH, you know the PERSON, and what someone like Bill has to bring to the table in the form of historical or theological understanding is unimportant. This is truly a sad state of affairs and I do pray that your eyes might be opened so that you can adjust your attitude to be receptive not just to the uneducated, but to the educated as well. There really should be no respect of persons among us, whether it is in the usual sense or in reverse. Judy wrote: I just needed to see and understand it in God's Word for myself The irony of this is that if you truly did finally understand, it was not the Bible that led you to understand this, but rather extra-biblical history. Once you accepted the history, the Bible's comments about the new moon made more sense and fit in very well. The point is that until you accepted truth from outside the Bible, your knowledge about it being a full moon when Jesus was in the garden was limited. It might seem like a minor point, and it is, but the principles involved about how we arrive at this knowledge is not minor at all. It explains much of the cacophony that sometimes happens on this list. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
Something has gone horibly wrong the man that preaches UNITY is now going to distance himself or "SEPARATE" from the one who preaches separation. Isn't that a hoot!David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy wrote: It would have saved a lot of misunderstanding if you could have explained as simply as you did in that last post rather than take up an offence for Mel Gibson.Following is how the conversation developed:On Feb. 28, Terry wrote: ... making me wonder how the full moon figured in the story.On Feb. 29, David Miller wrote: It is historically accurate that there was a full moon on that night. On Mar. 1, Judy wrote: It has nothing to do with history; this comes from astronomy and RC Liturgy. There are two different calenders and some disagreement so apparently they use astronomy/astrology to determine what day to celebrate Pascha (see below quote from a French RC theologian) quote:Kevin responded to this with occult rhetoric: This movie is LOADED with "HIDDEN" meaning! ... ...You expressed agreement with Kevin. Then I wrote: After this event, some Christians worked to separate Easter from Passover, so they do some calendar manipulation, but at the time Christ died, none of this was going on. The Jews used a lunar calendar and they used visual observation of the new moon to mark the beginning of each month. We know for a fact that the moon was just about full when Jesus was in the garden praying to his Father.That seems pretty clear to me. I said that they used visual observationof the new moon to mark the beginning of each month.Then Blaine wrote: Full Moon? Hey you guys, there is ALWAYS a full moon on the night of the Passover!!! LOL You guys need to bone up on your calendar lore--the Jewish calendar is what is known as a solar-lunar calendar--Lunar, because each Jewish month begins with a new moon. Solar, because it is kept in sync with the Vernal (Spring) Equinox by adding a lunar month every six years. The first month of the calendar, called Nisan, begins with the new moon closest to the Vernal Equinox, and then the Passover is always held on 15 Nisan. Since a lunar month averages 30 days, this places the Passover smack dab in the middle of the month--when the moon is at full phase!! Always. Take my word for it, as an old Mormon boy who holds a temple recommend! LOLThen Judy wrote on Mar. 2: OK Blaine, I read your first message and you claim the Jewish Calender goes by the moon right? Only there are problems with this and the calender they use presently is more Babylonian than it is Jewish and involves the sun as well as the moon. I doubt Mel Gibson was consulting Jewish/Babylonian calenders.David Miller wrote on Mar 3: I'm sure he was consulting the calendar issues involved here. Every serious scholar has consulted these matters when dealing with Passover and the crucifixion. Gibson brought in experts who would advise him about all these things, men who had surely studied them. You are making this way too complicated with your comments. It all breaks down to this.. The Jews would look for the new moon every month. As soon as the new moon was observed, they declared the new month to have arrived. Now you just count 14 days to the passover (Lev. 23:5). The lunar cycle is 29.5 days, so half of that brings us to the full moon. There really is no dispute over this at all. I don't know why you are arguing about it and not recognizing that Blaine has spoken truthfully about this matter. Judy responded on Mar. 4 with: You must not have read the post I sent explaining how following the moon alone would put the calender off over a period of time and passover would eventually wind up in the fall - hence Babylonian adjustments. It's not me who is complicating things. The "expert" Mel Gibson used is a Jesuit who would have beenof the RC liturgical persuasion.Kevin responded on Mar. 4 with: DAVIDM says You are making this way too complicated with your comments So I checked some sites on the internet. Maybe this will make it clear easily understood. Judy, it really is not that complicated can't you see that? LOL These sites explanations, sound like a bunch of PAGAN Mumbo Jumbo to me. ... ...Then Blaine wrote: The Passover for the year 2004 begins on the eve of April 5, and the actual Passover is the next day, April 6. Go to the site address I have shown below, input 6 April, 2004, and it will show the moon phase for that date. You may see for yourself a full moon shown.Judy responded: Passover for this year wasn't the question, Can you tell me what day and what month Passover was held in the year 33 AD?David Miller responded: The 14th of Nisan.Blaine wrote: Reread my post. It mentions that the Jewish calendar is a solar-lunar calendar, and I explained what is meant by that. The current names of the months on the Jewish calendar came from the Babylonian captivity --prior to that, only the first month had a name, which was Abib (see
RE: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
Kevin wrote: Something has gone horibly wrong the man that preaches UNITY is now going to distance himself or SEPARATE from the one who preaches separation. Isn't that a hoot! You apparently have never understood my teaching about unity and separation, but hey, maybe from your perspective you are rubbing off on me? You think? :-) Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill seems to grasp the idea that we would be better off learning to synthesize our viewpoints together into a complete whole, where perhaps a synergy might develop through such mutual cooperation. vince: Most people call that ecumenism. I see no benefit in unity simply for the sake of unity, especially not at the expense of truth. Synergy born of anthropogenic synthesis is not mentioned much less recommended to us in God's word. God is not impressed with human IQs, advanced degrees, etc. He tells us in His word that He gives understanding to those who are humble, and He gives ears to hear to those who tremble at His word (Prov 11:2; Is 66:5). Seek wisdom, understanding, and knowledge of the truth. Screw synthesis. vincent j. fulton -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
I also think you do not understand the bible teaching on separationDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin wrote: Something has gone horibly wrong the man that preaches UNITY is now going to distance himself or "SEPARATE" from the one who preaches separation. Isn't that a hoot!You apparently have never understood my teaching about unity andseparation, but hey, maybe from your perspective you are rubbing off onme? You think? :-)Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.
Re: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
ROTFL Exactly! The bible never tells us to find areas of commonality. Find Truth let the chips fall where they may.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bill seems to grasp the idea that we would be better off learning tosynthesize our viewpoints together into a complete whole, where perhaps asynergy might develop through such mutual cooperation. vince:Most people call that ecumenism. I see no benefit in unity simplyfor the sake of unity, especially not at the expense of truth.Synergy born of anthropogenic synthesis is not mentioned much lessrecommended to us in God's word. God is not impressed with human IQs,advanced degrees, etc. He tells us in His word that He givesunderstanding to those who are humble, and He gives ears to hear to thosewho tremble at His word (Prov 11:2; Is 66:5).Seek wisdom, understanding, and knowledge of the truth. Screwsynthesis.vincent j. fulton--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.
RE: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
David Miller wrote: Bill seems to grasp the idea that we would be better off learning to synthesize our viewpoints together into a complete whole, where perhaps a synergy might develop through such mutual cooperation. Vince wrote: Most people call that ecumenism. No, you aren't hearing what I am saying. I am against ecumenism. I don't believe in denominations at all. Vince wrote: Synergy born of anthropogenic synthesis is not mentioned much less recommended to us in God's word. I agree. I'm not talking about anthropogenic synthesis. I'm talking about hearing and receiving from one another and submitting unto one another. I'm talking about the body of Christ. Read 1 Cor. 12 and Acts 2. My wife is calling... time for church... gotta run. Later. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
What will take the place of denominations? Has there ever been a time on earth without "denominations"?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: Bill seems to grasp the idea that we would be better off learning to synthesize our viewpoints together into a complete whole, where perhaps a synergy might develop through such mutual cooperation.Vince wrote: Most people call that ecumenism. No, you aren't hearing what I am saying. I am against ecumenism. Idon't believe in denominations at all. Vince wrote: Synergy born of anthropogenic synthesis is not mentioned much less recommended to us in God's word. I agree. I'm not talking about anthropogenic synthesis. I'm talkingabout hearing and receiving from one another and submitting unto oneanother. I'm talking about the body of Christ. Read 1 Cor. 12 and Acts2. My wife is calling... time for church... gotta run. Later.Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.
Re: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
In a message dated 3/10/2004 3:47:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What will take the place of denominations? In the Bible there is the church local and the church universal but exactly where is the church denominational? Has there ever been a time on earth without "denominations"? Of course, being true does not mean it is God's intention for us. Since Adam, we have all been under sin but God's intentions were something else. John
RE: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
Judy wrote: More experts with a different date and time. How is it so simple? Corresponding dates of the past with our present calendar is not always so simple. However, determining that the moon was full when Jesus was crucified is VERY simple. You don't seem to understand that the Gregorian calendar was not put into use until 1582. At the time of Christ, there was no Gregorian calendar like we use today. There were people who visually looked for the new moon to determine when the month would start. This day would be a rest from worldly business, a day wherein trumpets were blown and sacrifices were offered (see Num. 10:10, 28:11, Amos 8:5). Therefore, using the Jewish calendar, the first day of the month was always a new moon and the middle of the month was the full moon. It really is that simple. The problem is that you do not believe me, so study some history about calendars like Blaine has and you too will understand. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion
VERY Good Judy, I love this kind of stuff. Beautiful!! Thanx. I will save this and or print it. Blaine - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 6:31 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion More experts with a different date and time. How is it so simple? jt Astronomers 'pinpoint time and date of crucifixion and resurrection' Two Romanian astronomers say their research shows Christ died at 3:00 pm on a Friday, and rose again at 4:00 am on a Sunday.Liviu Mircea and Tiberiu Oproiu claim to have pinpointed the exact time and date of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.The pair, from the Astronomic Observatory Institute in Cluj, Romania, say Jesus died at 3:00 pm on Friday, 3 April, 33 AD, and rose again at 4:00 am on Sunday, 5 April.They used a computer program to check biblical references against historical astronomical data.They said the New Testament stated that Jesus died the day after the first night with a full moon, after the vernal equinox.Using data gathered on the stars between 26 and 35 AD they established that in those nine years, the first full moon after the vernal equinox was registered twice - on Friday, 7 April, 30 AD, and on Friday, 3 April, 33 AD.They were convinced the date of the crucifixion was 33 AD, and not 30 AD, because records showed a solar eclipse, as depicted in the Bible at the time of Jesus' crucifixion, occurred in Jerusalem that year.SOURCEAnanova
