Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
No one's talking about "thought police," Kev. If you want to talk like Hill and North - expect the rest of us who listen to you to think you are of the same ilk, denials not withstanding. That's all I am saying. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] violent thinking is not violent action And who gets elected to be the thought police anyway? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:IFO can accept this self-characterization. But when your words sound like North's or Paul Hill's, they allow others to see a similarity in your thoughts as compared to the violent thinking of those named above. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> First you accuse me of being Gary North and then you tell me you agreewith my critique of his philosophy? (see your post below)Which is it Lance? I do not understa nd such behavior it seemsirrational to me. I absolutely am not a ROMAN Papist. Seems to me the Canadian Gov't is on a witch hunt the likes ofMccarthyISM.The State of Canada has become the Potentate on a hunt for illegalthoughts and will enFORCE by threat of law and public censure.Only diff McCarthy was right the US had been infiltrated! The only force I believe in is the Force of God's words.You have the right to believe anything you want and I have the right toviolently disagree with words NO SWORDS! --- Lance Muir wrote:Did you know that 'he' will not repeat that infamous line no matter who asks? So, K evin, I undertake to write more than 1 line and, you do what you do so well; simply give up a smart-ass reply. It's little wonder that SPers are not well received either in Salt Lake or, anywhere else! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Are you talking to me, Gary North? Lance Muir wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that ; some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march & gt;The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient." Kevin Deegan wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin, professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian th eocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Can't Say That" Canadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil
RE: [TruthTalk] scientific reality in the classroom
http://www.avpress.com/n/23/0323_s3.hts Board OKs Darwin challenge By CHRISTOPHER AMICO Valley Press Staff Writer LANCASTER - The Lancaster School District board of trustees voted to implement a philosophy of science instruction that encourages students to question Charles Darwin's theory of evolution and that permits science teachers to insert critiques of the long-standing and accepted scientific theory into the curriculum. The new statement, updated from an older document, does not include any alternative theories such as intelligent design, which posits a master plan or master designer as an explanation of how the universe began. Outside groups quickly pounced on the move as a way of sneaking creationism - or a divine explanation - in the back door of the classroom. Alex Branning, a 22-year-old entrepreneur who owns a Web design and marketing firm based in Lancaster, first proposed the changes at a school board meeting two weeks ago. He told trustees it was imperative that the school district update its stand on the teaching of evolution as soon as possible. Teaching the theory of evolution enters California's curriculum in seventh grade. Victory came sooner than Branning expected. All five trustees voiced support for the amended statement, which members of the administration worked with Branning to revise. We owe it to our students to give them a world-class science education that prepares them as scientifically literate citizens and members of the work force in the 21st century. Our proposed policy is designed to do just that, Branning said recently when he was pursuing adoption of the new standard. He said the policy adopted by the school board Tuesday night will give students the thinking skills needed to compete in today's economy. Trustee Mel Kleven said the new philosophy will bring scientific reality to the classroom and promote an open environment. Critics, however, questioned the motives in Lancaster's approach to science instruction. You don't do students a favor by pretending there are controversies in the scientific community where there are none, said Kevin Padian, a professor of integrative biology at the University of California, Berkeley. California Schools Superintendent Jack O'Connell said by telephone that schools should follow the state's standards on evolution. We want information that's based upon accepted scientific theory. We need to have that info that's accepted by the mainstream scientific community, he said, adding that a discussion of beliefs may be more appropriate in a philosophy class rather than a science class. If it's a back door attempt at promoting creationism or 'intelligent design' if that's being portrayed as gospel, that would be incorrect in a science class, O'Connell said. That would not be helpful. Branning insists he is not anti-evolution and does not endorse teaching creationism or intelligent design. He said the group he founded, called Integrity in Academics, includes others who, like himself, want the whole picture of the origins of life shown to students. Branning grew up in Quartz Hill and was home-schooled. He attended Antelope Valley College and has run his business, the Branning Group, for three years. He became interested in the controversy over evolution after conducting his own research, reading what he described as arguments for the theory, and challenges to it. The businessman said he makes no claim to possessing a formal scientific background. One problem with evolution, he said, is the Cambrian Explosion, a period he said has yet to be explained by modern biology or paleontology. During that early period of Earth's history - about half a billion years ago - the ancestors of most modern animal phyla first appeared. Questioners of evolution often describe this period as sudden, but Padian of UC Berkeley said that scientists consider that view misleading. The period described actually took about 70 million years, he said. It's usually misrepresented by anti-evolutionists, he said. The notion that this stuff appeared all at once is completely wrong. Branning's push for a re-thinking of how to teach evolution locally comes at a moment of renewed debate over life's origins. The Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based advocacy organization, has pushed intelligent design as an alternative to Darwin's theory, and other groups have raised questions about supposed gaps in fossil records. Casey Luskin, an attorney with the institute, said Lancaster's new board-approved philosophy on teaching will open up debate on a subject that is usually one-sided. Various attempts to introduce intelligent design as a scientifically objective counter-theory to the theory of natural selection has been consistently rebuffed by courts. Any time that you're permitting criticism, this is going to be good for students. We definitely support the school district bringing objectivity to science curriculum, he said. Luskin said Branning did not work
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Are you aware that it was a Christian who discovered the fallacy of that belief? Galileo Galilei, though famous for his scientific achievements in astronomy, mathematics, and physics and infamous for his controversy with the church was, in fact, a devout Christian who saw not a divorce of religion and science but only a healthy marriage: God is known by nature in his works, and by doctrine in his revealed word. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:51 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Are you aware (seriously) that for a lengthy period people believed God's Word AND believe in a geocentric universe? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:36 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Fortunately we comprehend the truth since we believe Gods Word. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:30 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric if you like. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Im so thankful that my 4 grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the lefties took over?) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a big banger nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about preaching to the lost. Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with harmonizing evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So?
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Exactly right that Horace Mann introduced humanism in place of Christianity in the public education system. Until him the Bible was the basic textbook. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:56 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The history of public education is a little more complicated than this. I think the more forceful argument was making education available to those who were not wealthy. The non-sectarian nature of it came in because the originators, men like Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Horace Mann, etc., were Deists and Unitarian, along with the fact that the U.S. was a melting pot of various religious groups. One simply cannot offer public education for all without setting aside the individual religious beliefs and focusing upon the knowledge that was more common among the different religious sects. What many people do not realize is that the concept of schools came from Christianity. Almost all the institutions of learning first came about through the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Calvinists, thePuritans, etc. Interestingly, non-Christian education never materialized until everyone was forced to pay for it through taxation, through the efforts of menlike Horace Mann. Mann converted from Calvinism to the Unitarian church. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Public education was first offered as an alternaive to Christian education. jd -- Original message -- From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, it is not 'strange'. In most cases 'creation science' reflects neither. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:33 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism She should not teach them that the universe IS geocentric, but she should teach them the geocentric model, evidence for and against it,and its place in thehistory of science and religion. Isn't it strange how science has no problem doing this, but it does have a problem with creation science being dealt with in the same way? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric if you like. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Im so thankful that my 4 grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the lefties took over?) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a big banger nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about preaching to the lost. Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Mann instituted public education as an alternative to the existing private and religious system of the day. That is what I am talking about. What the Puritans did in the 1600's is NOT what I am talking about. I am telling you that public education started in Mass. as a reaction to "religious" and private systems of the day. That is how I remember my history on this. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Exactly right that Horace Mann introduced humanism in place of Christianity in the public education system. Until him the Bible was the basic textbook. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David MillerSent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:56 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The history of public education is a little more complicated than this. I think the more forceful argument was making education available to those who were not wealthy. The non-sectarian nature of it came in because the originators, men like Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Horace Mann, etc., were Deists and Unitarian, along with the fact that the U.S. was a melting pot of various religious groups. One simply cannot offer public education for all without setting aside the individual religious beliefs and focusing upon the knowledge that was more common among the different religious sects. What many people do not realize is that the concept of schools came from Christianity. Almost all the institutions of learning first came about through the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Calvinists, thePuritans, etc. Interestingly, non-Christian education never materialized until everyone was forced to pay for it through taxation, through the efforts of menlike Horace Mann. Mann converted from Calvinism to the Unitarian church. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Public education was first offered as an alternaive to Christian education. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, it is not 'strange'. In most cases 'creation science' reflects neither. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:33 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism She should not teach them that the universe IS geocentric, but she should teach them the geocentric model, evidence for and against it,and its place in thehistory of science and religion. Isn't it strange how science has no problem doing this, but it does have a problem with creation science being dealt with in the same way? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric if you like. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Im so thankful that my 4 grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the lefties took over?) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. . - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
But then you don't really know that upon which we focus do you Lance? I for one do not take on responsibility for every decision made by the US Gov't, Congress, Senate, and GWB and I have released ourchildren to run their own lives.I've discovered a funny thing Lance; you know the only one I can influence in a way that changes things is "me" How about that now ... Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). From: Kevin Deegan The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
There is no such thing as a "renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder about you and your SS conversion. It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly,
Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What do I believe about Genesis? Did you read any of my posts? Sciencehas no answers to our confusion, our bondage, our need for community andan innate longing to live beyond what we see.As soon as we turn Genesis into a statement of science, we lessen its value to the human spirit. How about a statement of TRUTH communicated by the author of TRUTH then? That is exactly what I am saying. I counsel others as time permits. I use the biblical message in my work. That does not mean the Bible is a counseling manual !! Neither is it a science book. But if you don't get what I am saying in the above, just move on. It does not appear that you do get what I have said. What do I get from reading those first three chapters? That God is in control -- not that He is SOMEHOW in control - but that He is IN FACT in control. He is my creator. I am in His image. He is your Creator but you are not in His image unless you have been totally conformed to the image of Christ already - in fact, not in theory only. Your attitude to His Law would belie that. Adam and Eve were not created with the nature of Christ as their mainstay !! Just JudySpeak and nothing more. And even when I fall, He continues to hover over and round me. It tells me that I was created for others -- my wife, my children and the world in which I live. The first three chapters of Genesis tells you all of the above? Where? Take your Bible, open it to the first pages of Genesis, lean over until your nose is nearly touching those pages and BAM !!!, YOU WILL SEE IT. It tells me I am responsible for much of my actions. Work is a curse because I must be responsible !! Newsflash!! You are responsible for ALL of your thoughts as well as your actions. No kidding. I and my wife are one becauseGodthought this to be the case from the beginning. and REST has as much a place in the coming and goings of man as work. That's what I get out of this Genesis account.Whilesome of you only see a debate You and your wife are one flesh; the Lord would like to be One spirit with you JD Done deal, Judge Judy . beginning many years ago. Do you know the best way of dealing with a child - in my case an older son -- who comes home announcing that he no longer believes in the bible??!! IGNORE that comment and continue to be a witness , using, at times, the very book that he rejects. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT challenge him/her to a debate. You will not win, if your version of :winning" is to bring that child to say "Iwas wrong, Dad, and you were right again." He won't do it. But if you ignore the challenge, and give biblical presentations that make sense to the way he is living his life -- the objection vanishes into thin air. Theory? Nope. It worked on both of my older boys - the lawyer and the doctor. But I digress with some free advice. The long and short of the lesson is this -- make the Bible THE battle ground and you will lose the war !!! Present the Bible as something that offers life in the Spirit of God in the Christ of God and you have a winner. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Divine Contingent Order
:-) I shall miss these pithy responses. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] After reading you, I'm inclined toward a YES! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 06:35 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Divine Contingent Order Was it a BIG Bang?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When one seeks to apply the latter onto the former one is simply stymied. In failing to apprehend this one bangs one's head against the proverbial wall. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
If I am talking like Hill North it must be a typo or More Likely a Parity Error on your end![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:No one's talking about "thought police," Kev. If you want to talk like Hill and North - expect the rest of us who listen to you to think you are of the same ilk, denials not withstanding. That's all I am saying. jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] violent thinking is not violent action And who gets elected to be the thought police anyway? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IFO can accept this self-characterization. But when your words sound like North's or Paul Hill's, they allow others to see a similarity in your thoughts as compared to the violent thinking of those named above. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> First you accuse me of being Gary North and then you tell me you agreewith my critique of his philosophy? (see your post below)Which is it Lance? I do not understa nd such behavior it seemsirrational to me. I absolutely am not a ROMAN Papist. Seems to me the Canadian Gov't is on a witch hunt the likes ofMccarthyISM.The State of Canada has become the Potentate on a hunt for illegalthoughts and will enFORCE by threat of law and public censure.Only diff McCarthy was right the US had been infiltrated! The only force I believe in is the Force of God's words.You have the right to believe anything you want and I have the right toviolently disagree with words NO SWORDS! --- Lance Muir wrote:Did you know that 'he' will not repeat that infamous line no matter who asks? So, K evin, I undertake to write more than 1 line and, you do what you do so well; simply give up a smart-ass reply. It's little wonder that SPers are not well received either in Salt Lake or, anywhere else! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Are you talking to me, Gary North? Lance Muir wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that ; some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march gt;The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient." Kevin Deegan wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin, professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian th eocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Can't Say That" Canadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
It goes beyond taking responsibility Judy. You have been accussed of having the same murderous spiritas that bunch of Dominionists and Reformed Papists!Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But then you don't really know that upon which we focus do you Lance? I for one do not take on responsibility for every decision made by the US Gov't, Congress, Senate, and GWB and I have released ourchildren to run their own lives.I've discovered a funny thing Lance; you know the only one I can influence in a way that changes things is "me" How about that now ... Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all).From: Kevin Deegan The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal?Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-relatedCanadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded!Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated."Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts!You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly, the inevitable result of allowing these initial speech restrictions has been the gradual but significant growth of censorship and suppression of civil liberties across Canada. In many cases, the speech that is suppressed conflicts with the Canadian government's official multiculturalist agenda, or is
Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson goes on and on and on
David, allow me this moment to reveal just a tad about the Smithmeister. Bulldogery is that which speaks of my passion. Indeed, I have gotten angry twice, here on TT, both times following one of your priceless comments . Twice in three years (going back a ways .)?!! Not bad, I think. I am certainly NOT emotional in my response(s)on this subject. There havebeen times, in past postings, that you have been even brilliant in your defense. This is not one of those times. Science and creation is not one of your strong points -- at least not this time around. I suspect that you are distracted with other things. To wit: God takes 26 seconds to speak all things into existence - I say. But you, wanting to present the act of creation as longer, say exactly 144 hours (6 days times 24 hours for those of you living near the Ozarks) retort with this -- For example, if he spoke for the land masses to divide from the water, it took less than a minute to say it, but hours for the land and water to do what he said. Maybe that doesn't sound funny to you, but honestly, it is a riot over here in my office. "Those dumb old land masses -- they couldn't just POP into place. N0sir-re. It took time for them to move into place -- upwards of several hours !! Com'on big D !! Just admit that the non-literal 24 hour crowd just might have a point !! Look -- if you give graduating high school studentsyour kind of information and send to them to Humbolt State - why, within minutes, the whole bunch of them would become atheists !! I have seen thishappen many times. Our young people have left their individual churches thinking there is nothing to evolution, or whatever, and when they sit in front of an antongist, they are left naked, poor and numb. You might not be impressed with my explanations offered to my boys at U of Cal at Davies -- but let me tell you this. I had been working on one line explanations for years before my boys got to school. All ofthose one-liners thoroughly defeated except for that one brief paragraph of thought I gave in another post (the eternity of matter and motion aand the philosophical advantage of going with the eternity of God - thingy). I have talked about "postulated" truth in the past -- that such is considered to be"truth" but without the possibility of PROOF. I have mentioned that science is as much addicted to "faith" as a Christian to his God . all things I could communicate in minutes over the phone. And guess what -- my boys called!!! These guys each won state wrestling championships and I coached them (AND YES I AM MOST DEFINITELY BRAGGING). In some venues , they completely trusted me and with reason. Probably the most important long distance phone call I will ever receive frommy boyswas THAT call -- "Dad, this prof is killing us !! What do we say?" There was no doubt in their minds that The Reply would work. I could have lost both boys the next day in class !! You should have heard that next phone call the next evening !! Awesome. How did I know it would work ? I went to several science classes over the years and used my best stuff in class -- none of it survived except the above. but it was enough. Use the Bible as a battle ground AND YOU WILL CONDEMN YOUR CHILDREN TO HELL. Get the educator to admit that his world of knowing is not that much different than the Christian's and you have common ground with which to discuss. You never fight your opponent in his backyard !! Since TT is almost over - one more story. My oldest daughter came to me as a14 year old with her first job. Her boss was an atheist. She tried to convert him and got beat up in the process. "Dad, how do I defend inspiration to Bruce?" "Julie, you don't even try. Do this -- explain to him that all of the writers of the New Testament scriptures were murdered for their beliefsand then ask him, 'Bruce, don't you think you should at least examine what it was they died for ?" He told her he was prepared for any response but that one !!That opened a door that was slammed shut two weeks later in his drowning death at the lake. Was there light in life because of that talk? I like to think there was. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interpretation/interpolation/speculation re:Genesis leads one to that which one has just witnessed over the last week or so. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:01 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism I don't know why you are getting so emotional over this. I think that when God spoke, in many situations, it took some time for what he said to take place. For example, if he spoke for the land masses to divide from the water, it took less than a minute to say it, but hours for the land and water to do what he said.He also may have been involved in other ways that we don't understand right now. Do you
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
Can't makethe old man act new, anymore than you can make aMannequin dance Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no such thing as a "renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder about you and your SS conversion. It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new.On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all).- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal?Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-relatedCanadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded!Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated."Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts!You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly, the inevitable result of allowing these initial speech restrictions has been the gradual but significant growth of censorship and suppression of civil liberties across Canada. In many cases, the speech that is suppressed conflicts with the Canadian government's official multiculturalist agenda, or is otherwise politically incorrect. For example, the Canadian
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
actually, that is not true. But go with it !! Who cares. -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] It goes beyond taking responsibility Judy. You have been accussed of having the same murderous spiritas that bunch of Dominionists and Reformed Papists!Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But then you don't really know that upon which we focus do you Lance? I for one do not take on responsibility for every decision made by the US Gov't, Congress, Senate, and GWB and I have released ourchildren to run their own lives.I've discovered a funny thing Lance; you know the only one I can influence in a way that changes things is "me" How about that now ... Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). From: Kevin Deegan The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly, the inevitable result of allowing these initial speech restrictions has been the gradual but significant growth of censorship and suppression of civil liberties across Canada. In many cases, the speech that is
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
I was responding to this jewel: violent thinking is not violent action And who gets elected to be the thought police anyway? -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] If I am talking like Hill North it must be a typo or More Likely a Parity Error on your end![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No one's talking about "thought police," Kev. If you want to talk like Hill and North - expect the rest of us who listen to you to think you are of the same ilk, denials not withstanding. That's all I am saying. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] violent thinking is not violent action And who gets elected to be the thought police anyway? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:IFO can accept this self-characterization. But when your words sound like North's or Paul Hill's, they allow others to see a similarity in your thoughts as compared to the violent thinking of those named above. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> First you accuse me of being Gary North and then you tell me you agreewith my critique of his philosophy? (see your post below)Which is it Lance? I do not understa nd such behavior it seemsirrational to me. I absolutely am not a ROMAN Papist. Seems to me the Canadian Gov't is on a witch hunt the likes ofMccarthyISM.The State of Canada has become the Potentate on a hunt for illegalthoughts and will enFORCE by threat of law and public censure.Only diff McCarthy was right the US had been infiltrated! The only force I believe in is the Force of God's words.You have the right to believe anything you want and I have the right toviolently disagree with words NO SWORDS! --- Lance Muir wrote:Did you know that 'he' will not repeat that infamous line no matter who asks? So, K evin, I undertake to write more than 1 line and, you do what you do so well; simply give up a smart-ass reply. It's little wonder that SPers are not well received either in Salt Lake or, anywhere else! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Are you talking to me, Gary North? Lance Muir wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one.. Granted that & gt; ; some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march < BR> gt;The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The trut h in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient." Kevin Deegan wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin, professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian ; th eocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
The Lack of understanding is just laziness of thought and lack of effort. Fits the legal definition of LibelJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just one more example which proves the fact that you have not ever understood what any of us have been saying. Not really. I know I am not into Dominion Theology and I don't hear it coming from Iz, Kevin, or David either. So you are out there Lance, possiblyin the next orbit to Gary.On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:59:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:You certainly have! (see Iz, Judy, Kevin David) Stage direction: The word 'certainly' should be spoken so as to provide the same emphasis/tone that 'Ollie' had when saying 'here's another fine mess you've gotten me into, Stanley...'- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 09:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] DominionI have never heard of Gary North, but I see his theology in much that has been written on TT. jd-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Funny, I would've thought that you and Gary would be best buds.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion Bible N Sword!Here are some interesting quotes from Calvinist Gary North (Reformed Catholic Taliban) This is what happens when one thinks they are a Jew, they actually have joined themselves to the synogogue of Satan."The fifth and by far the most important reason is that stoning is literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock, which is symbolic of God. This is analogous to the crushing of the head of the serpent in Genesis 3:15. This symbolism testifies to the final victory of God over all the hosts of Satan. Stoning is therefore integral to the commandment against murder. Gary NorthThe question eventually must be raised: Is it a criminal offense to take the name of the Lord in vain? When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime (Ex. 21:17). The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death. Clearly, cursing God (blasphemy) is a comparable crime, and is therefore a capital crime (Lev. 24:16). Gary New Geneva NorthThe long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel. Gary (death to NON Paedobaptists) North written from New GenevaNevertheless, this one fact should be apparent: turning the other cheek is a bribe. It is a valid form of action for only so long as the Christian is impotent politically or militarily. Gary North Satan cannot win. Why not? Because he has denied God's sovereignty and disobeyed God's law. But Moses was told explicitly, God's blessings come only from obedience. Satan will not win because he has abandoned God's tool of dominion, biblical law. Gary North (sounds CALVINistic to me)There is only one Bride; God is not a bigamist. He took no gentile wife under the Old Covenant, and He will not accept a pale imitation of Old Covenant Israel - modern Judaism - as His wife in the future. Gary "we are the replacement" NorthWhat the ten commandments set forth is a strategy. This strategy is a strategy for dominion. Gary (enforce the law with the sword) North" Jesus was not denying the legitimacy of biblical law. On the contrary, He was affirming biblical law. We love God first; God commands us to keep His word; therefore, we must enforce the law on ourselves. Gary NorthThe battle for the mind, some fundamentalists believe, is between fundamentalism and the institutions of the Left. This conception of the battle is fundamentally incorrect. The battle for the mind is between the Christian reconstruction movement, which alone among Protestant groups takes seriously the law of God, and everyone else.- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on CreationismIs KD a pseudonym for Gary North? "if ever a continent of covenant-breakers deserved this attribution (extermination), the "native Americans" did." PopeGary North (comments added) Pope Gary North "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit...must be denied citizenship". Reformed Baptist? LOL Baptist Reconstruction? LOL Baptist Kingdom builders? LOL Baptist DominionISM? LOL Baptist Pope ROTFLRC Pope Calvin
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
Exact - a - mundo !! -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can't makethe old man act new, anymore than you can make aMannequin dance Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no such thing as a "renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder about you and your SS conversion. It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly, the inevitable result of allowing these initial speech restrictions has been the gradual but significant growth of censorship and suppression of civil liberties across Canada. In many cases, the speech that is suppressed conflicts with the Canadian government's official multiculturalist agenda, or is
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
Sofile a claim ! Or are you afraid the judge might not see it as libel ?!! (I am there with the humor -- have I hurt your feelings yet?) -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Lack of understanding is just laziness of thought and lack of effort. Fits the legal definition of LibelJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just one more example which proves the fact that you have not ever understood what any of us have been saying. Not really. I know I am not into Dominion Theology and I don't hear it coming from Iz, Kevin, or David either. So you are out there Lance, possiblyin the next orbit to Gary. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:59:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You certainly have! (see Iz, Judy, Kevin David) Stage direction: The word 'certainly' should be spoken so as to provide the same emphasis/tone that 'Ollie' had when saying 'here's another fine mess you've gotten me into, Stanley...' - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 09:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion I have never heard of Gary North, but I see his theology in much that has been written on TT. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Funny, I would've thought that you and Gary would be best buds. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion Bible N Sword! Here are some interesting quotes from Calvinist Gary North (Reformed Catholic Taliban) This is what happens when one thinks they are a Jew, they actually have joined themselves to the synogogue of Satan. "The fifth and by far the most important reason is that stoning is literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock, which is symbolic of God. This is analogous to the crushing of the head of the serpent in Genesis 3:15. This symbolism testifies to the final victory of God over all the hosts of Satan. Stoning is therefore integral to the commandment against murder. Gary North The question eventually must be raised: Is it a criminal offense to take the name of the Lord in vain? When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime (Ex. 21:17). The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death. Clearly, cursing God (blasphemy) is a comparable crime, and is therefore a capital crime (Lev. 24:16). Gary New Geneva North The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel. Gary (death to NON Paedobaptists) North written from New Geneva Nevertheless, this one fact should be apparent: turning the other cheek is a bribe. It is a valid form of action for only so long as the Christian is impotent politically or militarily. Gary North Satan cannot win. Why not? Because he has denied God's sovereignty and disobeyed God's law. But Moses was told explicitly, God's blessings come only from obedience. Satan will not win because he has abandoned God's tool of dominion, biblical law. Gary North (sounds CALVINistic to me)There is only one Bride; God is not a bigamist. He took no gentile wife under the Old Covenant, and He will not accept a pale imitation of Old Covenant Israel - modern Judaism - as His wife in the future. Gary "we are the replacement" North What the ten commandments set forth is a strategy. This strategy is a strategy for dominion. Gary (enforce the law with the sword) North " Jesus was not denying the legitimacy of biblical law. On the contrary, He was affirming biblical law. We love God first; God commands us to keep His word; therefore, we must enforce the law on ourselves. Gary NorthThe battle for the mind, some fundamentalists believe, is between fundamentalism and the institutions of the Left. This conception of the battle is fundamentally incorrect. The battle for the mind is between the Christian reconstruction movement, which alone among Protestant groups takes seriously the law of God, and everyone else. - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? "if ever a continent of covenant-breakers deserved this attribution (extermination), the "native Americans" did." PopeGary North (comments added) Pope Gary North "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit...must be denied citizenship".
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
PTL Lance finally found it[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:actually, that is not true. But go with it !! Who cares.-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] It goes beyond taking responsibility Judy. You have been accussed of having the same murderous spiritas that bunch of Dominionists and Reformed Papists!Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But then you don't really know that upon which we focus do you Lance? I for one do not take on responsibility for every decision made by the US Gov't, Congress, Senate, and GWB and I have released ourchildren to run their own lives.I've discovered a funny thing Lance; you know the only one I can influence in a way that changes things is "me" How about that now ... Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all).From: Kevin Deegan The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal?Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-relatedCanadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded!Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated."Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts!You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly, the inevitable result of allowing these initial speech restrictions has been the gradual but
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
Are you trying? Why would my feelings be hurt?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Sofile a claim ! Or are you afraid the judge might not see it as libel ?!! (I am there with the humor -- have I hurt your feelings yet?) -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Lack of understanding is just laziness of thought and lack of effort. Fits the legal definition of LibelJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just one more example which proves the fact that you have not ever understood what any of us have been saying. Not really. I know I am not into Dominion Theology and I don't hear it coming from Iz, Kevin, or David either. So you are out there Lance, possiblyin the next orbit to Gary.On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:59:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:You certainly have! (see Iz, Judy, Kevin David) Stage direction: The word 'certainly' should be spoken so as to provide the same emphasis/tone that 'Ollie' had when saying 'here's another fine mess you've gotten me into, Stanley...'- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 09:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] DominionI have never heard of Gary North, but I see his theology in much that has been written on TT. jd-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Funny, I would've thought that you and Gary would be best buds.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion Bible N Sword!Here are some interesting quotes from Calvinist Gary North (Reformed Catholic Taliban) This is what happens when one thinks they are a Jew, they actually have joined themselves to the synogogue of Satan."The fifth and by far the most important reason is that stoning is literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock, which is symbolic of God. This is analogous to the crushing of the head of the serpent in Genesis 3:15. This symbolism testifies to the final victory of God over all the hosts of Satan. Stoning is therefore integral to the commandment against murder. Gary NorthThe question eventually must be raised: Is it a criminal offense to take the name of the Lord in vain? When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime (Ex. 21:17). The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death. Clearly, cursing God (blasphemy) is a comparable crime, and is therefore a capital crime (Lev. 24:16). Gary New Geneva NorthThe long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel. Gary (death to NON Paedobaptists) North written from New GenevaNevertheless, this one fact should be apparent: turning the other cheek is a bribe. It is a valid form of action for only so long as the Christian is impotent politically or militarily. Gary North Satan cannot win. Why not? Because he has denied God's sovereignty and disobeyed God's law. But Moses was told explicitly, God's blessings come only from obedience. Satan will not win because he has abandoned God's tool of dominion, biblical law. Gary North (sounds CALVINistic to me)There is only one Bride; God is not a bigamist. He took no gentile wife under the Old Covenant, and He will not accept a pale imitation of Old Covenant Israel - modern Judaism - as His wife in the future. Gary "we are the replacement" NorthWhat the ten commandments set forth is a strategy. This strategy is a strategy for dominion. Gary (enforce the law with the sword) North" Jesus was not denying the legitimacy of biblical law. On the contrary, He was affirming biblical law. We love God first; God commands us to keep His word; therefore, we must enforce the law on ourselves. Gary NorthThe battle for the mind, some fundamentalists believe, is between fundamentalism and the institutions of the Left. This conception of the battle is fundamentally incorrect. The battle for the mind is between the Christian reconstruction movement, which alone among Protestant groups takes seriously the law of God, and everyone else.- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on CreationismIs KD a pseudonym for Gary North? "if ever a continent of covenant-breakers deserved this attribution (extermination), the "native Americans" did." PopeGary North (comments added) Pope Gary North "The
Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism
then Truth ain't JC put yet another way, the notionmouthedisbeyond falseness, it is implicitly untrue as is a lie,M'am On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 01:05:59 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As..we turn Genesis into a statement... jt: ..it's 'a statement of TRUTH'
Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson goes on and on and on
v insightful, Bro On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:33:06 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Get/[like allow] the educator to admit that his world of knowing is not that much different than the Christian's and you have common ground with which to discuss.
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
bullseye; v understandable, Bro! On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:30:28 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fits the legal definition of LibelJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: || ..you are out there Lance, possiblyin the next orbit to Gary.
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
..also,perceptively: "The Lack of understanding is just laziness of thought and lack of effort." On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:23:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: bullseye; v understandable, Bro! On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:30:28 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fits the legal definition of LibelJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: || ..you are out there Lance, possiblyin the next orbit to Gary.
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
Just quoting your words while mocking Lance -- And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, kd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you trying? Why would my feelings be hurt?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sofile a claim ! Or are you afraid the judge might not see it as libel ?!! (I am there with the humor -- have I hurt your feelings yet?) -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Lack of understanding is just laziness of thought and lack of effort. Fits the legal definition of LibelJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just one more example which proves the fact that you have not ever understood what any of us have been saying. Not really. I know I am not into Dominion Theology and I don't hear it coming from Iz, Kevin, or David either. So you are out there Lance, possiblyin the next orbit to Gary. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:59:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You certainly have! (see Iz, Judy, Kevin David) Stage direction: The word 'certainly' should be spoken so as to provide the same emphasis/tone that 'Ollie' had when saying 'here's another fine mess you've gotten me into, Stanley...' - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 09:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion I have never heard of Gary North, but I see his theology in much that has been written on TT. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Funny, I would've thought that you and Gary would be best buds. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion Bible N Sword! Here are some interesting quotes from Calvinist Gary North (Reformed Catholic Taliban) This is what happens when one thinks they are a Jew, they actually have joined themselves to the synogogue of Satan. "The fifth and by far the most important reason is that stoning is literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock, which is symbolic of God. This is analogous to the crushing of the head of the serpent in Genesis 3:15. This symbolism testifies to the final victory of God over all the hosts of Satan. Stoning is therefore integral to the commandment against murder. Gary North The question eventually must be raised: Is it a criminal offense to take the name of the Lord in vain? When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime (Ex. 21:17). The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death. Clearly, cursing God (blasphemy) is a comparable crime, and is therefore a capital crime (Lev. 24:16). Gary New Geneva North The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel. Gary (death to NON Paedobaptists) North written from New Geneva Nevertheless, this one fact should be apparent: turning the other cheek is a bribe. It is a valid form of action for only so long as the Christian is impotent politically or militarily. Gary North Satan cannot win. Why not? Because he has denied God's sovereignty and disobeyed God's law. But Moses was told explicitly, God's blessings come only from obedience. Satan will not win because he has abandoned God's tool of dominion, biblical law. Gary North (sounds CALVINistic to me)There is only one Bride; God is not a bigamist. He took no gentile wife under the Old Covenant, and He will not accept a pale imitation of Old Covenant Israel - modern Judaism - as His wife in the future. Gary "we are the replacement" North What the ten commandments set forth is a strategy. This strategy is a strategy for dominion. Gary (enforce the law with the sword) North " Jesus was not denying the legitimacy of biblical law. On the contrary, He was affirming biblical law. We love God first; God commands us to keep His word; therefore, we must enforce the law on ourselves. Gary NorthThe battle for the mind, some fundamentalists believe, is between fundamentalism and the institutions of the Left. This conception of the battle is fundamentally incorrect. The battle for the mind is between the Christian reconstruction movement, which alone among Protestant groups takes seriously the law of God, and everyone else. - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? "if ever a continent of covenant-breakers deserved this attribution
