Re: [Twisted-Python] [RFC] Drop support for Python 3.5 sometime after May 2021?

[Glyph]

> On May 15, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Craig Rodrigues  wrote:
> 
> Maybe it would be OK to do one more release of Twisted and announce that as 
> the last release supporting Python 3.5, before
> dropping support?  

Yeah; whenever we drop a Python version we should always support at least one 
more release, so that people have some notice before they lose access to the 
next set of security updates.

Any 3.5 users on this list who would want to postpone it longer than this?

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Re: [Twisted-Python] unified filesystem API (was: SMB server component for twisted)

[Glyph]

> On May 15, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Ian Haywood  wrote:
> 
> On 16/05/2020 10:55 am, Ian Haywood wrote:
>> 
>> On 15/05/2020 10:52 am, Glyph wrote:
>>> y 14, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Wilfredo Sánchez Vega >> 
 
   I think it's great to get an SMB implementation in the Twisted org, but 
 why would we even consider adding something like this to the main Twisted 
 project?
>> 
>> The advantage of twisted itself is cross-protocol abstractions such as cred. 
>> Of course you don't have to be in the repo to use them, but in practice 
>> developers need the discipline of a single project to maintain consistency, 
>> otherwise the human tendency to reinvent wheels is too strong
> 
> Apropos we have two APIs for exporting filesystems which are broadly similar: 
> SFTP in conch and FTP itself, SMB is about to be a third, ideally we should 
> have one or have them descend from one another. It's slightly harder than it 
> sounds as SMB is a file-access, as opposed to file-transfer, protocol and 
> supports some extra features such as locking.

This does point out one of my secret hopes for SMB: that a file server's 
maintainers will care enough about file throughput that we'll finally get a 
centralized, official way of doing async file I/O that we can share with SFTP, 
FTP, and HTTP :).

-glyph

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Re: [Twisted-Python] [RFC] Drop support for Python 3.5 sometime after May 2021?

[Craig Rodrigues]

Personally, I don't have any dependencies on Python 3.5.
I just suggested once year's notice to give people time to adjust,
but if no one really cares, dropping 3.5 support some time this year is
fine by me.

Maybe it would be OK to do one more release of Twisted and announce that as
the last release supporting Python 3.5, before
dropping support?
--
Craig


On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:37 PM Amber Brown 
wrote:

> Xenial's 3.5.1/3.5.2 sucks and doesn't have some asyncio functionality
> (due to it being provisional then?) which means things like Eliot doesn't
> work due to aiocontextvars barfing on missing functionality. There's also
> 20.04 LTS now, making 16.04 old-old-LTS. I don't think it's worth it.
>
> - Amber
>
> On Thu, 14 May 2020, at 15:18, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> > May 2021 seems to be right around when Xenial (Which has 3.5) falls
> > into ESM, so maybe we can wait?
> > I don't have strong feelings, but it is a datapoint.
> >
> > Moshe Z.
> >
> > On Wed, May 13, 2020, at 22:13, Glyph wrote:
> > > On May 13, 2020, at 10:04 PM, Amber Brown (hawkowl) <
> hawk...@atleastfornow.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 14/5/20 5:10 am, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> > > >> I would like to propose that Twisted drop support for Python 3.5
> one year from now in 2021.
> > > >
> > > > I was considering proposing dropping it soon (I was thinking when we
> had 3.8 support, that 3.6/3.7/3.8 is a reasonable compatibility matrix).
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm also inclined to say sooner rather than later; I don't know the
> numbers but my impression is that 3.x uptake began for real at 3.4 and in
> earnest at 3.6, so there aren't that many people still on 3.5.
> > >
> > > The lack of variable annotations, in particular, seems like a sticking
> point with 3.5 as we attempt to adopt mypy.
> > >
> > > -g
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
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Re: [Twisted-Python] [RFC] Drop support for Python 3.5 sometime after May 2021?

[Craig Rodrigues]

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:05 PM Amber Brown (hawkowl) <
hawk...@atleastfornow.net> wrote:

>
> So, I guess if we have 3.8 support, the next release can announce the
> dropping of 3.5, and then the release after that can be the final one
> with support.
>

In trunk, on Python 3.8, all the tests in CI pass on Mac and Linux.
With Windows and Python 3.8, there are 6 errors due to AyncioReactorTests
failing:
https://dev.azure.com/twistedmatrix/twisted/_build/results?buildId=1771=logs=ea01aad7-d5f3-5f0e-2fda-71d72e596cac=f47a629b-ce24-5ee0-314a-24c887b72299=16071

most likely due to this: https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/9766

where in Python 3.8, the ProactorEventLoop was made the default on Windows.

So once this is fixed on Windows, I think we are pretty close to having
clean CI runs on Python 3.8 on all platforms.
--
Craig
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[Twisted-Python] unified filesystem API (was: SMB server component for twisted)

[Ian Haywood]

On 16/05/2020 10:55 am, Ian Haywood wrote:


On 15/05/2020 10:52 am, Glyph wrote:
y 14, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Wilfredo Sánchez Vega 


  I think it's great to get an SMB implementation in the Twisted 
org, but why would we even consider adding something like this to 
the main Twisted project?


The advantage of twisted itself is cross-protocol abstractions such as 
cred. Of course you don't have to be in the repo to use them, but in 
practice developers need the discipline of a single project to 
maintain consistency, otherwise the human tendency to reinvent wheels 
is too strong



Apropos we have two APIs for exporting filesystems which are broadly 
similar: SFTP in conch and FTP itself, SMB is about to be a third, 
ideally we should have one or have them descend from one another. It's 
slightly harder than it sounds as SMB is a file-access, as opposed to 
file-transfer, protocol and supports some extra features such as locking.


Ian

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Re: [Twisted-Python] SMB server component for twisted

[Ian Haywood]

On 15/05/2020 10:52 am, Glyph wrote:
y 14, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Wilfredo Sánchez Vega 


  I think it's great to get an SMB implementation in the Twisted org, 
but why would we even consider adding something like this to the main 
Twisted project?


The advantage of twisted itself is cross-protocol abstractions such as 
cred. Of course you don't have to be in the repo to use them, but in 
practice developers need the discipline of a single project to maintain 
consistency, otherwise the human tendency to reinvent wheels is too strong.


Ian

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