Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Craig Rodrigues]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 11:27 AM Adi Roiban  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> So, speaking for myself here and not representing the Twisted community or
> anyone else.
>


Thanks for making this clear that you are speaking for yourself and no one
else.


> * A release blocker bug - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10069
>
>

For this particular bug, I have been working on getting feedback from Tom
Most,
under https://github.com/twisted/twisted/pull/1502 and am working on a fix
to incorporate his feedback.
This some central code is in base.py, and I am proceeding cautiously to
make sure that I fully understand Tom's
concern  and am working on a  fix.

I apologize if I have not been working fast enough on this release to your
satisfaction.

I will attempt to communicate better on this list my progress.

I didn't want to bring this up on the mailing list.
I will take your behavior as enthusiasm for the project, but despite the
e-mail that Glyph sent,
I still find your behavior very aggressive (and unappreciated).  In your
e-mail you are
throwing out timelines, which may be "friendly suggestions" on your part,
but can come across as deadlines/ultimatums.

For now, I am focusing on the final issue, and will proceed with the
release as best as I am able,
and communicate to the Twisted community my progress.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Adi Roiban]

Hi,

So, speaking for myself here and not representing the Twisted community or
anyone else.

I think that the consensus inside the Twisted contributors is that we
should have a new  release ASAP.

The current release is blocked by the following issues:

* A release blocker bug - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10069
* A release process protocol / procedure / communication

---

For the blocker bug, there were 2 PR there were closed

* https://github.com/twisted/twisted/pull/1499
* https://github.com/twisted/twisted/pull/1501

There is one PR still in work https://github.com/twisted/twisted/pull/1502

We can wait one more week to see if this issue can be fixed and unblock the
release in this way.

Otherwise, we can revert the change that introduced the regression and have
the release unblocked.

Note that reverting a merge that introduced a regression as soon as the
regression is detected, is the current best practice.
The revert was not done as there was hope that this can be fixed.

With the release unblock Craig or I or someone else can create the release
branch and push the release candidate to PYPI.

---

For the release procedure / communication

The release documentation and the process to publish the wheels to PyPI was
updated with the goal of making it easier for the current release
to happen.
You just create a tag and you have the documentation and PyPI wheels
already published.

You can still manually create the wheels and publish them with twine

If anyone thinks that the current changes that were made for automatic Docs
(narrative and API) and wheel publishing are a regression,
they can be reverted at any time, and we can merge them after the release.

The ad-hoc / informal Twisted dev communication happens over IRC Freenode
#twisted-dev

It would be nice if we can have all active developers there for quick
feedback and brainstorming.



Have I forgotten anything?

I hope that in 2 weeks we can have a release candidate and by the end of
February a final release.

Cheers


On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 at 02:56, Craig Rodrigues 
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:42 AM Glyph  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Following up on this, since we are now officially past the "beginning" of
>> January: Craig, is a release imminent or can someone else pick up some
>> tasks yet?
>>
>>
> I'm close to getting this done, and want to complete this.
>
> --
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Craig Rodrigues]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:42 AM Glyph  wrote:

>
>
>
> Following up on this, since we are now officially past the "beginning" of
> January: Craig, is a release imminent or can someone else pick up some
> tasks yet?
>
>
I'm close to getting this done, and want to complete this.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Glyph]

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Glyph  wrote:
> 
>> It might take me a few days to complete this, since I am in the middle of 
>> holidays now, 
>> so won't be able to complete a release until the beginning of January.
> 
> Everybody should be able to take a break on a holiday (or heck, whenever you 
> want, for as long as you want, we're all volunteers here) but "please don't 
> make progress while I'm gone" is a surefire recipe for the person asking to 
> complete the thing themselves getting distracted and wandering away.  The 
> release is stuck enough as it is with CI issues and regressions, so if 
> someone has energy to make some forward progress let's please not hold it up.

Following up on this, since we are now officially past the "beginning" of 
January: Craig, is a release imminent or can someone else pick up some tasks 
yet?

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Craig Rodrigues]

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 3:59 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:

>
> Is there anything still blocking you ?
> Can I help?
>


I do not need specific help from you at the moment, but when I do, I will
ask.
Thanks.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Craig Rodrigues]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 10:04 AM Glyph  wrote:

>
> From what I can see though, this one is a pretty straightforward case of
> us just introducing a bug into a perfectly valid configuration though, just
> not one we happen to have in our test matrix right now.
>
>

I am working on this right now, and am taking my time with the release.
Since this is my first time doing a release,
I am erring on the side of caution, which is why I am working to make sure
that buildbot's tests pass, since they
are a good representative project of a heavy Twisted user.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Adi Roiban]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 at 18:17, Glyph  wrote:

>
> On Dec 28, 2020, at 3:38 AM, Jean-Paul Calderone <
> exar...@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
>
> I guess there are no comments against removing a ticket from the
>> release-blocking list if the ticket is not active for 1 or 2 weeks.
>>
>
> Commenting against this was the main reason for my earlier reply.  I've
> left my quoted reply above.
>
>
> I'm also against this.  Inactivity for a week or two is not enough reason
> to allow a known regression to be present in a release.
>
> Is there a reason we can't identify the commit that caused the problem and
> simply revert before doing the release, then fix it afterwards?
>
> If we're in a position where trunk has drifted so far between the
> regression and its identification that it is too labor-intensive to revert
> and we need to fix it forward, then the release *is* stuck - that's the
> whole point of the "release blocker" category.  This is a very unfortunate
> situation but less unfortunate than shipping buggy releases that are known
> to break big users of Twisted.
>
>
Thanks for your feedback.

I have created https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10073 to add extra
info to our release documentation.

So, we will continue to have release candidates and will block a release
for as long as it's needed.

I can continue to use Twisted from pinned trunk without any issue :)



It looks like with enough noise we got 2 PRs for the release blocker ticket

https://github.com/twisted/twisted/pull/1499
https://github.com/twisted/twisted/pull/1501

:)

So I hope the release will no longer be blocked  for much longer :)

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Glyph]

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 9:50 AM, Glyph  wrote:
> 
> I'm also against this.  Inactivity for a week or two is not enough reason to 
> allow a known regression to be present in a release.
> 
I should clarify that maybe I haven't processed the full context for this 
specific issue though.  I do think it's acceptable to time out on an issue 
where a release blocker is claimed to exist if e.g. we can't reproduce the 
problem, or if it's a request for an above-and-beyond compatibility thing (like 
"please restore this private API, its removal breaks our application").  As a 
courtesy we might block a release for a small amount of time while waiting for 
a reproducer or a short-term private-API compatibility shim but the onus there 
is really on the reporter.

From what I can see though, this one is a pretty straightforward case of us 
just introducing a bug into a perfectly valid configuration though, just not 
one we happen to have in our test matrix right now.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Glyph]

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 7:45 AM, Craig Rodrigues  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 3:59 PM Adi Roiban  > wrote:
> Hi Craig,
> 
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 at 20:10, Craig Rodrigues  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 3:50 PM Adi Roiban  > wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I plan to act as a release manager for the next release and follow the plan 
> documented at
> 
> https://docs.twistedmatrix.com/en/latest/core/development/policy/release-process.html
>  
> 
> 
> 
> I was previously working on releasing Twisted.  I was running into various 
> roadblocks, but was moving forward,
> and got permission from Glyph to move forward with this.
> Has this changed?
> 
> If you want to do the release, I am more than happy to not have to do the 
> release myself :)
> 
> Well since Glyph gave me permission to do this, I would like to complete this.

I'm not clear why Adi could not pick up your work where you left off?
 
> OK. I closed https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10069 
>  as I think it's a duplicate.
> 
> Do you or Pierre plan to fix that ticket?
> 
> 
> I'm working on this now.
> 
> It might take me a few days to complete this, since I am in the middle of 
> holidays now, 
> so won't be able to complete a release until the beginning of January.

Everybody should be able to take a break on a holiday (or heck, whenever you 
want, for as long as you want, we're all volunteers here) but "please don't 
make progress while I'm gone" is a surefire recipe for the person asking to 
complete the thing themselves getting distracted and wandering away.  The 
release is stuck enough as it is with CI issues and regressions, so if someone 
has energy to make some forward progress let's please not hold it up.

-g


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Glyph]

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 3:38 AM, Jean-Paul Calderone  
> wrote:
> 
> I guess there are no comments against removing a ticket from the 
> release-blocking list if the ticket is not active for 1 or 2 weeks.
> 
> Commenting against this was the main reason for my earlier reply.  I've left 
> my quoted reply above.

I'm also against this.  Inactivity for a week or two is not enough reason to 
allow a known regression to be present in a release.

Is there a reason we can't identify the commit that caused the problem and 
simply revert before doing the release, then fix it afterwards?

If we're in a position where trunk has drifted so far between the regression 
and its identification that it is too labor-intensive to revert and we need to 
fix it forward, then the release is stuck - that's the whole point of the 
"release blocker" category.  This is a very unfortunate situation but less 
unfortunate than shipping buggy releases that are known to break big users of 
Twisted.

-g

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Craig Rodrigues]

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 3:59 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:

> Hi Craig,
>
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 at 20:10, Craig Rodrigues 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 3:50 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I plan to act as a release manager for the next release and follow the
>>> plan documented at
>>>
>>>
>>> https://docs.twistedmatrix.com/en/latest/core/development/policy/release-process.html
>>>
>>>
>> I was previously working on releasing Twisted.  I was running into
>> various roadblocks, but was moving forward,
>> and got permission from Glyph to move forward with this.
>> Has this changed?
>>
>
> If you want to do the release, I am more than happy to not have to do the
> release myself :)
>

Well since Glyph gave me permission to do this, I would like to complete
this.



> OK. I closed https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10069 as I think it's
> a duplicate.
>
> Do you or Pierre plan to fix that ticket?
>
>

I'm working on this now.

It might take me a few days to complete this, since I am in the middle of
holidays now,
so won't be able to complete a release until the beginning of January.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Jean-Paul Calderone]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 6:13 AM Adi Roiban  wrote:

>
>>> I plan to update the release documentation to make it clear that all
>>> release blocker tichet
>>> should have an owner and there are plans to fix the ticket in a maximum
>>> of 2 weeks.
>>>
>>> Otherwise we risk to block the release forever... and if we delay
>>> forever people will start using "trunk"
>>> and if everybody is using trunk, what is the point of a release :) ?
>>>
>>
>> Part of the point is that when someone runs `pip install ...` they get a
>> *working* version of Twisted, to the best of the project's ability to
>> provide one.
>>
>> Fortunately many regressions aren't that difficult to resolve.  At worst,
>> find the merge that introduced them and revert it.  This works best when
>> regressions are found in a timely manner, of course.  Of course it's also
>> nice if the problem can be fixed without backing out whatever (presumably
>> desirable) set of changes it came along with.
>>
>> Part of the release managers job is to motivate this kind of work to
>> happen.  A standing policy to revert the cause of a regression can also
>> serve as good motivation to get the other kind of fix in, too.
>>
>> It's better if these known regressions don't linger for months, though.
>> It looks like the Buildbot PR had a failing CI run in October.  I'd suggest
>> that not waiting until December is a good way to avoid having these kinds
>> of situations turn into a larger problem.
>>
>> Jean-Paul
>>
>>
> Thanks Kyle and Jean-Paul for your feedback.
>
> I guess there are no comments against removing a ticket from the
> release-blocking list if the ticket is not active for 1 or 2 weeks.
>
>
Commenting against this was the main reason for my earlier reply.  I've
left my quoted reply above.

Jean-Paul
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Adi Roiban]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 at 01:00, Jean-Paul Calderone 
wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 6:59 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:
>
>> Hi Craig,
>>
>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 at 20:10, Craig Rodrigues 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 3:50 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 I plan to act as a release manager for the next release and follow the
 plan documented at


 https://docs.twistedmatrix.com/en/latest/core/development/policy/release-process.html


>>> I was previously working on releasing Twisted.  I was running into
>>> various roadblocks, but was moving forward,
>>> and got permission from Glyph to move forward with this.
>>> Has this changed?
>>>
>>
>> If you want to do the release, I am more than happy to not have to do the
>> release myself :)
>>
>>
>>> Unfortunately, Amber did not respond to any e-mails that I sent to her
>>> and Glyph, so I tried to move forward the
>>> best that I could.
>>>
>>
>> Is there anything still blocking you ?
>> Can I help?
>>
>>

 So no other tickets are in the blocker queue:
 https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/report/26

 --

 Do you know any other release blocker issues?


>>> I filed this:
>>> https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10070
>>>
>>> which I found with Pierre Tardy's help by running buildbot's test suite
>>> against Twisted trunk.
>>> This looks like a problem on the Twisted side, and should be fixed
>>> before a Twisted release is pushed out.
>>>
>>
>> OK. I closed https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10069 as I think it's
>> a duplicate.
>>
>> Do you or Pierre plan to fix that ticket?
>>
>> I think that you should block the release only if someone is committed to
>> fixing the release blocker.
>>
>> I plan to update the release documentation to make it clear that all
>> release blocker tichet
>> should have an owner and there are plans to fix the ticket in a maximum
>> of 2 weeks.
>>
>> Otherwise we risk to block the release forever... and if we delay forever
>> people will start using "trunk"
>> and if everybody is using trunk, what is the point of a release :) ?
>>
>
> Part of the point is that when someone runs `pip install ...` they get a
> *working* version of Twisted, to the best of the project's ability to
> provide one.
>
> Fortunately many regressions aren't that difficult to resolve.  At worst,
> find the merge that introduced them and revert it.  This works best when
> regressions are found in a timely manner, of course.  Of course it's also
> nice if the problem can be fixed without backing out whatever (presumably
> desirable) set of changes it came along with.
>
> Part of the release managers job is to motivate this kind of work to
> happen.  A standing policy to revert the cause of a regression can also
> serve as good motivation to get the other kind of fix in, too.
>
> It's better if these known regressions don't linger for months, though.
> It looks like the Buildbot PR had a failing CI run in October.  I'd suggest
> that not waiting until December is a good way to avoid having these kinds
> of situations turn into a larger problem.
>
> Jean-Paul
>
>
Thanks Kyle and Jean-Paul for your feedback.

With GitHub Actions is easy to have wheels and full docs published on PyPi
and Read The Docs.
We can do a release candidate and the release candidate might be a good way
to do one more release rehearsal before the final release :)

I was wrong to suggest installing based on trunk ... even when use pip to
install from git, it should have been installed based on the release branch
:)
But that issue is solved.

-

I guess there are no comments against removing a ticket from the
release-blocking list if the ticket is not active for 1 or 2 weeks.

-

Crag, if you have time, can you join the IRC channel ?


Cheers
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Jean-Paul Calderone]

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 6:59 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:

> Hi Craig,
>
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 at 20:10, Craig Rodrigues 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 3:50 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I plan to act as a release manager for the next release and follow the
>>> plan documented at
>>>
>>>
>>> https://docs.twistedmatrix.com/en/latest/core/development/policy/release-process.html
>>>
>>>
>> I was previously working on releasing Twisted.  I was running into
>> various roadblocks, but was moving forward,
>> and got permission from Glyph to move forward with this.
>> Has this changed?
>>
>
> If you want to do the release, I am more than happy to not have to do the
> release myself :)
>
>
>> Unfortunately, Amber did not respond to any e-mails that I sent to her
>> and Glyph, so I tried to move forward the
>> best that I could.
>>
>
> Is there anything still blocking you ?
> Can I help?
>
>
>>>
>>> So no other tickets are in the blocker queue:
>>> https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/report/26
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Do you know any other release blocker issues?
>>>
>>>
>> I filed this:
>> https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10070
>>
>> which I found with Pierre Tardy's help by running buildbot's test suite
>> against Twisted trunk.
>> This looks like a problem on the Twisted side, and should be fixed before
>> a Twisted release is pushed out.
>>
>
> OK. I closed https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10069 as I think it's
> a duplicate.
>
> Do you or Pierre plan to fix that ticket?
>
> I think that you should block the release only if someone is committed to
> fixing the release blocker.
>
> I plan to update the release documentation to make it clear that all
> release blocker tichet
> should have an owner and there are plans to fix the ticket in a maximum of
> 2 weeks.
>
> Otherwise we risk to block the release forever... and if we delay forever
> people will start using "trunk"
> and if everybody is using trunk, what is the point of a release :) ?
>

Part of the point is that when someone runs `pip install ...` they get a
*working* version of Twisted, to the best of the project's ability to
provide one.

Fortunately many regressions aren't that difficult to resolve.  At worst,
find the merge that introduced them and revert it.  This works best when
regressions are found in a timely manner, of course.  Of course it's also
nice if the problem can be fixed without backing out whatever (presumably
desirable) set of changes it came along with.

Part of the release managers job is to motivate this kind of work to
happen.  A standing policy to revert the cause of a regression can also
serve as good motivation to get the other kind of fix in, too.

It's better if these known regressions don't linger for months, though.  It
looks like the Buildbot PR had a failing CI run in October.  I'd suggest
that not waiting until December is a good way to avoid having these kinds
of situations turn into a larger problem.

Jean-Paul
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Kyle Altendorf]

On 2020-12-27 18:58, Adi Roiban wrote:

> For the future, maybe we can stop doing a release candidate wheel and 
> instead just announce that a release is coming 
> and people should test trunk and flag any release blocker ticket.

With all the work for automated releasing, isn't it easy to do an RC and
a week or two later do a regular release?  Admittedly, lots of people
(like myself) haven't made most of our CI setups run all of pinned
versions, latest release, latest pre-release, and latest trunk...  but
maybe having more projects actually doing release candidates is one
piece of encouraging that?  Or maybe, practically speaking, nobody is
going this route anyways so you are suggesting a better path. 

> I think that with pip, is now very easy to install Twisted from trunk.

In case anyone isn't super familiar... 

pip install git+https://github.com/twisted/twisted#egg=twisted 

The #egg=twisted is useful for misc corner cases but not always
required.  One not-so-corner case is when you want to specify an extra
then it is #egg=twisted[windows_platform], for example. 

Cheers, 

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Adi Roiban]

Hi Craig,

On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 at 20:10, Craig Rodrigues 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 3:50 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I plan to act as a release manager for the next release and follow the
>> plan documented at
>>
>>
>> https://docs.twistedmatrix.com/en/latest/core/development/policy/release-process.html
>>
>>
> I was previously working on releasing Twisted.  I was running into various
> roadblocks, but was moving forward,
> and got permission from Glyph to move forward with this.
> Has this changed?
>

If you want to do the release, I am more than happy to not have to do the
release myself :)


> Unfortunately, Amber did not respond to any e-mails that I sent to her and
> Glyph, so I tried to move forward the
> best that I could.
>

Is there anything still blocking you ?
Can I help?


>>
>> So no other tickets are in the blocker queue:
>> https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/report/26
>>
>> --
>>
>> Do you know any other release blocker issues?
>>
>>
> I filed this:
> https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10070
>
> which I found with Pierre Tardy's help by running buildbot's test suite
> against Twisted trunk.
> This looks like a problem on the Twisted side, and should be fixed before
> a Twisted release is pushed out.
>

OK. I closed https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10069 as I think it's a
duplicate.

Do you or Pierre plan to fix that ticket?

I think that you should block the release only if someone is committed to
fixing the release blocker.

I plan to update the release documentation to make it clear that all
release blocker tichet
should have an owner and there are plans to fix the ticket in a maximum of
2 weeks.

Otherwise we risk to block the release forever... and if we delay forever
people will start using "trunk"
and if everybody is using trunk, what is the point of a release :) ?

--

For the future, maybe we can stop doing a release candidate wheel and
instead just announce that a release is coming
and people should test trunk and flag any release blocker ticket.

I think that with pip, is now very easy to install Twisted from trunk.

Cheers

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Upcoming Twisted Release

[Craig Rodrigues]

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 3:50 PM Adi Roiban  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I plan to act as a release manager for the next release and follow the
> plan documented at
>
>
> https://docs.twistedmatrix.com/en/latest/core/development/policy/release-process.html
>
>
I was previously working on releasing Twisted.  I was running into various
roadblocks, but was moving forward,
and got permission from Glyph to move forward with this.
Has this changed?
Unfortunately, Amber did not respond to any e-mails that I sent to her and
Glyph, so I tried to move forward the
best that I could.



>
>
> So no other tickets are in the blocker queue:
> https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/report/26
>
> --
>
> Do you know any other release blocker issues?
>
>
I filed this:
https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/10070

which I found with Pierre Tardy's help by running buildbot's test suite
against Twisted trunk.
This looks like a problem on the Twisted side, and should be fixed before a
Twisted release is pushed out.

--
Craig
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