Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
I have to agree with Doug, I spend my entire day in Ms Visual Studio, save the modifications I do for our UniVerse system. I started writing add-ins for my Visual Studio to do conversion for things like UniVerse dates to Windows dates, etcetera. I don't think I did it because I felt I had to make them, but because I didn't know there was a tool like BASIC Developer Toolkit, or anything else for that matter that fit into how I work now. Even the U2 .NET add-on doesn't really seem like it's the perfect solution from what I've seen so far. Perhaps what you have all just explained really does say it all. This sounds like the perfect spot for a decent sized open source group to spring up and fill the hole, making a tool or the many plug-ins required to fill the void you're describing. Since I had never even heard of Eclipse (mostly because I live 95% of the time in the Ms world), I think it needs more preaching and tweaking so it speaks for itself. --- John J. Wahl Employee Owner Programmer / Analyst Web: http://www.Joseph.com/ -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Doug Averch Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:26 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK Charles, Having worked for a lot of different organizations that build code on other platforms, I would disagree with your comments. You will see MS programmers in Visual Studio all day, day after day. You will see Java programmers do the same in Eclipse. Oracle programmers are no different. Why are UniBasic programmers so different? Because we have not had a tool that we can live in since the dawn of Pick. When a CEO looks at me coding in AE/ED at their site, they invariable ask if UniBasic is a DOS tool. So, when a SQL server software vendor comes by to sell them on merits of their new software, the invariable listen and sometimes buy. If we want to sell this database to management so that they realize the power of U2, we better show them the we have a great tool set like those MS programmers. We cannot just talk the talk, we have to walk the walk. I know I don't have all of the power tools yet for Eclipse. I still have to login into the database to perform whatever, but I know that this madness has to stop. Whether it is SOX compliance or by management degree, we programmers need to stay out of the database. I know the U2 world is different, but why am I typing C/VAR/VAR1/G100 or my favorite =t 31`R 12`FI`=t. The power of Eclipse is the plug-ins. I do have other tools but they are plug-ins to Eclipse. I have my HTML editor from Eclipse, my JavaScript editor from Adobe, my UniBasic editor from U2logic, my Web Developer from U2logic, CVS from Eclipse, my Resizer from U2logic, my report writer is BIRT from Eclipse, and someday other U2 plug-ins from whomever. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Results Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:45 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK David, I agree. I have yet to see a compelling reason to have just one tool. My projects and needs vary too much to just use AccuTerm, or just use mvDeveloper, or just use *anything*. I need a variety of tools in my toolkit. - Chuck Have More Than Just Hammers, See More Than Just Nails Barouch ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
This sounds like the perfect spot for a decent sized open source group to spring up and fill the hole, making a tool or the many plug-ins required to fill the void you're describing. Like that hasn't been tried. We can't even get volunteers to update the wiki or post to the website let alone finding people willing to put aside the sort of time you would need for building toolsets. No, to be blunt - what it needs is a community willing to put their money where their mouths are and invest in the tools that are available, so it then becomes worthwhile for tool vendors to spend the amounts of time and money required to produce them. Creating quality tools is not trivial: in most cases it takes a lot more work than creating the buiness applications they help others to produce. Unfortunately, it's all too usually the case that people will splash out on tools like Visual Studio, and (if they are sensible) in buying the right components to speed up client side development - but when it comes to their multivalue system that is backing all of this, they simply refuse to pay for anything that will help them. And then every so often people - often the same people - complain that the tools aren't there. Hmmm - really? But then 'twas ever thus... I wrote my first Windows based editor for UniVerse (with all the bells and whistles you could ask for) back in 1990 and I continue as far as I can to develop tools today. And I'm not alone in that: there are other tool vendors - including Doug - producing precisely these types of tools for the U2 space. But in the final analysis the tools I build today - editors, installation tools, source code tools etc. - are there primarily to assist me and I have to squeeze them out between paid work. Because by themselves in this market they certainly don't pay the bills. Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
We have a wiki? From: br...@brianleach.co.uk To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:25:38 +0100 Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK This sounds like the perfect spot for a decent sized open source group to spring up and fill the hole, making a tool or the many plug-ins required to fill the void you're describing. Like that hasn't been tried. We can't even get volunteers to update the wiki or post to the website let alone finding people willing to put aside the sort of time you would need for building toolsets. No, to be blunt - what it needs is a community willing to put their money where their mouths are and invest in the tools that are available, so it then becomes worthwhile for tool vendors to spend the amounts of time and money required to produce them. Creating quality tools is not trivial: in most cases it takes a lot more work than creating the buiness applications they help others to produce. Unfortunately, it's all too usually the case that people will splash out on tools like Visual Studio, and (if they are sensible) in buying the right components to speed up client side development - but when it comes to their multivalue system that is backing all of this, they simply refuse to pay for anything that will help them. And then every so often people - often the same people - complain that the tools aren't there. Hmmm - really? But then 'twas ever thus... I wrote my first Windows based editor for UniVerse (with all the bells and whistles you could ask for) back in 1990 and I continue as far as I can to develop tools today. And I'm not alone in that: there are other tool vendors - including Doug - producing precisely these types of tools for the U2 space. But in the final analysis the tools I build today - editors, installation tools, source code tools etc. - are there primarily to assist me and I have to squeeze them out between paid work. Because by themselves in this market they certainly don't pay the bills. Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurantsform=MLOGENpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Jo, Yes. It is featured prominently on the U2UG.org home page. Have a look and feel free to contribute. - Chuck Jo Lester wrote: We have a wiki? From: br...@brianleach.co.uk To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:25:38 +0100 Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK This sounds like the perfect spot for a decent sized open source group to spring up and fill the hole, making a tool or the many plug-ins required to fill the void you're describing. Like that hasn't been tried. We can't even get volunteers to update the wiki or post to the website let alone finding people willing to put aside the sort of time you would need for building toolsets. No, to be blunt - what it needs is a community willing to put their money where their mouths are and invest in the tools that are available, so it then becomes worthwhile for tool vendors to spend the amounts of time and money required to produce them. Creating quality tools is not trivial: in most cases it takes a lot more work than creating the buiness applications they help others to produce. Unfortunately, it's all too usually the case that people will splash out on tools like Visual Studio, and (if they are sensible) in buying the right components to speed up client side development - but when it comes to their multivalue system that is backing all of this, they simply refuse to pay for anything that will help them. And then every so often people - often the same people - complain that the tools aren't there. Hmmm - really? But then 'twas ever thus... I wrote my first Windows based editor for UniVerse (with all the bells and whistles you could ask for) back in 1990 and I continue as far as I can to develop tools today. And I'm not alone in that: there are other tool vendors - including Doug - producing precisely these types of tools for the U2 space. But in the final analysis the tools I build today - editors, installation tools, source code tools etc. - are there primarily to assist me and I have to squeeze them out between paid work. Because by themselves in this market they certainly don't pay the bills. Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurantsform=MLOGENpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.87/2195 - Release Date: 06/22/09 06:54:00 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Brian; You probably could. From what I've seen (especially with UniDebugger) it uses the terminal session to actually run the code and uses SETDEBUGLINE (in UD) to re-direct the output to the uniobjects connection UniDebugger is using. Not sure how your MVDeveloper connects but you could probably do the same thing... Hth Colin Alfke Calgary, Canada -Original Message- From: Brian Leach The only real downside is that I can't do the same level of integration with the Basic debugger. That's probably the one time you really do want to crank Eclipse into life. Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK [AD]
Sorry for two ads in one day folks but John's note prompts a specific response. John, are you aware that the core library in mv.NET is full of functions for Date, Time, DCount, and other MV-specific IConv/OConv functions? nospamNebula-RnD.com/products/mvdotnet mv.NET isn't just a library, it's fully integrated with Visual Studio: - Edit, Compile, and Catalog MV BASIC code in VS - Maintain all configuration data to different systems in VS - Maintain dict and data items in VS - Create U2 files from VS - Graphically create reports in VS - If you wish, open a telnet window from VS too In addition to that there are three libraries, one for core development, one for ADO.NET development with MV (no data flattening required) and one for directly binding data to controls. A soon-to-be-released major update for mv.NET will include generation of rich class definitions from MV dictionaries, to be used as DataSource objects. See my blog for a discussion of this topic: nospam.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2008/11/mvcodegen2.html I don't see a void that needs to be filled. For a couple hundred bucks you can do everything you've described. Some people say this should come from IBM but many people don't realize that IBM did purchase the source for an older version of mv.NET, rebranded it, limited the functionality, and they're now marketing it under a different name. So you have two options. Of course I'd prefer that you contact me about mv.NET. :) HTH Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Nebula RD sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products worldwide, and provides related development services remove.thisNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute! From: John J. Wahl I have to agree with Doug, I spend my entire day in Ms Visual Studio, save the modifications I do for our UniVerse system. I started writing add-ins for my Visual Studio to do conversion for things like UniVerse dates to Windows dates, etcetera. I don't think I did it because I felt I had to make them, but because I didn't know there was a tool like BASIC Developer Toolkit, or anything else for that matter that fit into how I work now. Even the U2 .NET add-on doesn't really seem like it's the perfect solution from what I've seen so far. Perhaps what you have all just explained really does say it all. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
From: Brian Leach [all snipped, full agreement] From: Jo Lester We have a wiki? Grrr - just look in the sig of almost every note I post to this forum. In addition to what Brian said, I'll add that there are many solutions in our marketplace that are readily available but it's evident from forum postings (like above) that people aren't making note of the resources available to them. I can't tell you how many times people say something doesn't exist when I've been writing about it for years. It would be great if people regularly checked PickWiki.com to see what solutions are available, and then, when required, post a note saying they've exhausted all other resources and they're looking for something else. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
The BASIC Developer Toolkit represents a significant step in the right direction which will set the standard for U2 toolsets. There will also be third-party tools that may have better features or potential work better. But none that will have the integration and back-up of IBM's U2 team. As always, I'd avoid version 1 products in production. But the potential expansion and the capabilities that it offers for a built-in at-no-extra cost is hard to argue with. Just like the U2 Unidmin tool has gone Eclipse for UniData, I eagerly await the UV version too. Again, version 1.0, but things can only get better and the price is right. Although giving feedback and getting responses from IBM U2 team is sadly less than optimal. Your experience may vary, especially in you have a VAR and Master distributor to deal with on top of that. I too would gripe that Eclipse is taken as the foundation for many toolsets and I hate how much overhead that entails. But hey - memory and disk is VERY cheap. So I shouldn't complain. :) I hate using tools that have menus and menu items that don't do anything and aren't used or referenced - all you ain't sure if they should be there or not! That's my biggest pet hate with tools that use Eclipse. Given many area free, why complain, eh? :D But tools like Brian's and U2logic are viable alternatives, need to be considered as well. I've tried both and they each have different strenghts and weaknesses - it depends on your own needs/requirements. Both are well established and my suits your needs now - rather than in version 1.1 or version 1.9 :) Regards, David -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Friday, 19 June 2009 6:44 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK To go back to the original question: I used it during the beta for 10.3 and found that it was effective and has some genuinely nice features. And if you're running Eclipse anyway and you're familiar with that IDE, it's probably a good way to go. Certainly having the integrated debugger is a big step forward, once you can work out how to get through the configuration steps to get it working. Just be careful inspecting large variables - it is unbelievably slow. I was inspecting one variable that was holding a document I was building in code, and it took over 15 minutes to display the content during which time I was unable to do anything else. I guess that's pretty unusual (!) though - for the most part the debugger is a very welcome addition (certainly far better than the UniDebugger version). However, since I spend my time mostly in .Net rather than Eclipse, I have to say I don't have any intentions of running BDT other than out of general interest. It's too heavyweight - if you don't already have Eclipse taking up your resources to do other things - and whilst the syntax parsing is extremely good, it's not configurable so it won't handle the precompiler statements that I need. Some pieces are still rough around the edges and there are some useful shortcuts in other editors that would make it easier to navigate code, but these are niggles really - it is only the first release and I applaud IBM for doing something to counter the hideous ugliness that is ED. [sort-of-AD-ish-but-only-if-you're-really-pedantic-cos-its-answering-the-que stion] Personally I'll stick with mvDeveloper because it's so much more lightweight and I can play with the syntax as much as I like. BDT does have an API that can be used to integrate to e.g. source control systems like PRC, but I'm also adding something very similar to mvDeveloper to replace the piecemeal handlers that are in there now. The only real downside is that I can't do the same level of integration with the Basic debugger. That's probably the one time you really do want to crank Eclipse into life. [/sort-of-AD-ish-but-only-if-you're-really-pedantic-cos-its-answering-the-qu estion] Brian ** IMPORTANT MESSAGE * This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: commbank.com.au. If you no longer wish to receive commercial electronic messages from us, please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe in the subject line. ** ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
David, I agree. I have yet to see a compelling reason to have just one tool. My projects and needs vary too much to just use AccuTerm, or just use mvDeveloper, or just use *anything*. I need a variety of tools in my toolkit. - Chuck Have More Than Just Hammers, See More Than Just Nails Barouch Hona, David wrote: The BASIC Developer Toolkit represents a significant step in the right direction which will set the standard for U2 toolsets. But tools like Brian's and U2logic are viable alternatives, need to be considered as well. I've tried both and they each have different strenghts and weaknesses - it depends on your own needs/requirements. Both are well established and my suits your needs now - rather than in version 1.1 or version 1.9 :) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Charles, Having worked for a lot of different organizations that build code on other platforms, I would disagree with your comments. You will see MS programmers in Visual Studio all day, day after day. You will see Java programmers do the same in Eclipse. Oracle programmers are no different. Why are UniBasic programmers so different? Because we have not had a tool that we can live in since the dawn of Pick. When a CEO looks at me coding in AE/ED at their site, they invariable ask if UniBasic is a DOS tool. So, when a SQL server software vendor comes by to sell them on merits of their new software, the invariable listen and sometimes buy. If we want to sell this database to management so that they realize the power of U2, we better show them the we have a great tool set like those MS programmers. We cannot just talk the talk, we have to walk the walk. I know I don't have all of the power tools yet for Eclipse. I still have to login into the database to perform whatever, but I know that this madness has to stop. Whether it is SOX compliance or by management degree, we programmers need to stay out of the database. I know the U2 world is different, but why am I typing C/VAR/VAR1/G100 or my favorite =t 31`R 12`FI`=t. The power of Eclipse is the plug-ins. I do have other tools but they are plug-ins to Eclipse. I have my HTML editor from Eclipse, my JavaScript editor from Adobe, my UniBasic editor from U2logic, my Web Developer from U2logic, CVS from Eclipse, my Resizer from U2logic, my report writer is BIRT from Eclipse, and someday other U2 plug-ins from whomever. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Results Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:45 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK David, I agree. I have yet to see a compelling reason to have just one tool. My projects and needs vary too much to just use AccuTerm, or just use mvDeveloper, or just use *anything*. I need a variety of tools in my toolkit. - Chuck Have More Than Just Hammers, See More Than Just Nails Barouch ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
I am going to attemp to get Komodo Edit U2-aware. It is a compelling editor. No heavier than Mozilla Firefox, and very cross platform compatible. Anyone want to team up on the effort? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
As eclipse is talking to Universe through java uniobjects, I suspect that half the work is already done to be able to duplicate this on .Net. It is really a requirement of someone duplicating the eclipse functionality in .Net and use the same calls to the database David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
David, Sometime when you have about 3 to 4 hours, myself and my staff will tell you how difficult and totally unnecessary it would be to port an U2 Eclipsed based Editor to .NET. IBM has an article about migrating .NET applications from Visual Studio to Eclipse. The article also talks about using a plug-in that allow you to create .NET Framework. This may help in your quest for the Holy MS Grail: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/os-eclipse-migratenetvs/index.html -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Jordan Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:48 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK As eclipse is talking to Universe through java uniobjects, I suspect that half the work is already done to be able to duplicate this on .Net. It is really a requirement of someone duplicating the eclipse functionality in .Net and use the same calls to the database David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Is anyone using the Eclipse SDK that was released recently (I think part of the UV 10.2 rollout pkg)? I don't remember seeing any threads regarding it so I'm wondering if folks are just working away with it with no issues or questions, or if most haven't found a use for it, or haven't discovered it. I haven't had a project yet 'in my day job' that calls for it, but am thinking about other projects. Does anyone know of a fast-start guide? The look and feel is a lot like visual studio, but it's been a couple of years since I dabbled in that either. If Nathan R. or Marcie G. are listening, this could be an opportunity for a webinar. -Baker This communication, its contents and any file attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential proprietary information. Access by any other party without the express written permission of the sender is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this communication in error you may not copy, distribute or use the contents, attachments or information in any way. Please destroy it and contact the sender. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Hi Baker You can use this for your everyday BASIC developments. I believe it only works perfectly on UV version 10.3. So if you are lucky enough to be running 10.3 already then it's probably a good reason to finally cast Unidebugger into that great screen editor in the sky You can download the document related to this at: http://publibfp.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/22922010.pdf Regards - glenn -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Baker Hughes Sent: Donnerstag, 18. Juni 2009 14:53 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK Is anyone using the Eclipse SDK that was released recently (I think part of the UV 10.2 rollout pkg)? I don't remember seeing any threads regarding it so I'm wondering if folks are just working away with it with no issues or questions, or if most haven't found a use for it, or haven't discovered it. I haven't had a project yet 'in my day job' that calls for it, but am thinking about other projects. Does anyone know of a fast-start guide? The look and feel is a lot like visual studio, but it's been a couple of years since I dabbled in that either. If Nathan R. or Marcie G. are listening, this could be an opportunity for a webinar. -Baker This communication, its contents and any file attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential proprietary information. Access by any other party without the express written permission of the sender is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this communication in error you may not copy, distribute or use the contents, attachments or information in any way. Please destroy it and contact the sender. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Legal Disclaimer: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Do you think maybe IBM could take U2 development towards Eclipse? They already have such an investment. You say this is just UV, but Unidata is not too different, so it is technically possible. Glenn Sallis wrote: Hi Baker You can use this for your everyday BASIC developments. I believe it only works perfectly on UV version 10.3. So if you are lucky enough to be running 10.3 already then it's probably a good reason to finally cast Unidebugger into that great screen editor in the sky You can download the document related to this at: http://publibfp.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/22922010.pdf Regards - glenn -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Baker Hughes Sent: Donnerstag, 18. Juni 2009 14:53 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK Is anyone using the Eclipse SDK that was released recently (I think part of the UV 10.2 rollout pkg)? I don't remember seeing any threads regarding it so I'm wondering if folks are just working away with it with no issues or questions, or if most haven't found a use for it, or haven't discovered it. I haven't had a project yet 'in my day job' that calls for it, but am thinking about other projects. Does anyone know of a fast-start guide? The look and feel is a lot like visual studio, but it's been a couple of years since I dabbled in that either. If Nathan R. or Marcie G. are listening, this could be an opportunity for a webinar. -Baker This communication, its contents and any file attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential proprietary information. Access by any other party without the express written permission of the sender is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this communication in error you may not copy, distribute or use the contents, attachments or information in any way. Please destroy it and contact the sender. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Legal Disclaimer: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Unidata is an option when installing. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow Sent: donderdag 18 juni 2009 15:13 To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK Do you think maybe IBM could take U2 development towards Eclipse? They already have such an investment. You say this is just UV, but Unidata is not too different, so it is technically possible. Glenn Sallis wrote: Hi Baker You can use this for your everyday BASIC developments. I believe it only works perfectly on UV version 10.3. So if you are lucky enough to be running 10.3 already then it's probably a good reason to finally cast Unidebugger into that great screen editor in the sky You can download the document related to this at: http://publibfp.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/22922010.pdf Regards - glenn -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Baker Hughes Sent: Donnerstag, 18. Juni 2009 14:53 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK Is anyone using the Eclipse SDK that was released recently (I think part of the UV 10.2 rollout pkg)? I don't remember seeing any threads regarding it so I'm wondering if folks are just working away with it with no issues or questions, or if most haven't found a use for it, or haven't discovered it. I haven't had a project yet 'in my day job' that calls for it, but am thinking about other projects. Does anyone know of a fast-start guide? The look and feel is a lot like visual studio, but it's been a couple of years since I dabbled in that either. If Nathan R. or Marcie G. are listening, this could be an opportunity for a webinar. -Baker This communication, its contents and any file attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential proprietary information. Access by any other party without the express written permission of the sender is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this communication in error you may not copy, distribute or use the contents, attachments or information in any way. Please destroy it and contact the sender. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Legal Disclaimer: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Legal Disclaimer: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
I believe the newest version of Redback (called WEB DE) uses Eclipse to develop ASP web pages. In fact, IBM is saying you can convert all your SB+ stuff over to ASP! That could be a big savings on SB licenses, but unless you have a home grown system, your vendor is not likely to support this (they would loose the revenue on the SB licenses). Looks cool though. John Israel Sr. Programmer/Analyst Dayton Superior Corporation 721 Richard St. Dayton, OH 45342 937-866-0711 x44380 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
We've so far just refused to use the gui sbclient. too expensive. i like ht etoolkit, but console mode is fine, and my users who telnet in NEED the console. I was thinking about Eclipse for SB development not userland. If the stuff we do in /MP and /PD.P could be abstracted into Eclipse, that would be wonderful. Israel, John R. wrote: I believe the newest version of Redback (called WEB DE) uses Eclipse to develop ASP web pages. In fact, IBM is saying you can convert all your SB+ stuff over to ASP! That could be a big savings on SB licenses, but unless you have a home grown system, your vendor is not likely to support this (they would loose the revenue on the SB licenses). Looks cool though. John Israel Sr. Programmer/Analyst Dayton Superior Corporation 721 Richard St. Dayton, OH 45342 937-866-0711 x44380 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Is anyone using the Eclipse SDK that was released recently (I think part of the UV 10.2 rollout pkg)? I am in the process of trying to download a LAMP development version of Eclipse. I didn't know Eclipse could be used with U2 development. I would take part in a webinar if one happened. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
ACTUALLY -- I think the converted things still use SB+ seats -- they do not build 'true' ASP pages... Someone correct me if I'm wrong! But my undestanding is that the applications you port are still 'session holding, license eating' critters -- not connection pooled 'web applications' DW -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Israel, John R. Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:17 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK I believe the newest version of Redback (called WEB DE) uses Eclipse to develop ASP web pages. In fact, IBM is saying you can convert all your SB+ stuff over to ASP! That could be a big savings on SB licenses, but unless you have a home grown system, your vendor is not likely to support this (they would loose the revenue on the SB licenses). Looks cool though. John Israel Sr. Programmer/Analyst Dayton Superior Corporation 721 Richard St. Dayton, OH 45342 937-866-0711 x44380 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
their whole method of marketing this limits growth so much. no one is going to pay these prices for this toolkit (i may be wrong, we wont). I had a bounce back from teh list, I apologize if this posts twice. charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote: Is anyone using the Eclipse SDK that was released recently (I think part of the UV 10.2 rollout pkg)? I am in the process of trying to download a LAMP development version of Eclipse. I didn't know Eclipse could be used with U2 development. I would take part in a webinar if one happened. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
Steve, WebDE only works on Windows .Net platform and does not have any deployment capability. That means what every you develop you have to figure out how to get all of the pieces to the server. The Basic Developer is missing what we believe is one of the most important features: version control. As a matter of a fact U2logic was the first to have an UniBasic editor that works for Universe and Unidata based on the Eclipse platform. U2logic was the first to have a Web IDE based on the Eclipse platform. [ad] XLr8Editor works on all of current versions including Universe back to version 9.6 and on Unidata back to version 6.0. XLr8Editor uses Eclipse to hookup into version control (i.e. CVS, Subversion, or Perforce). We can run as a true plug-in which means that you can use our editor for basic, MyEclipse for HTML, or Ruby IDE. We also have the ability to edit offline. This means you need only one version of Eclipse running to program for all sort of different languages and operating systems. XLr8Developer is an Eclipse based plug-in that creates HTML forms for Apache Tomcat that can run on Linux, Windows, AIX, or HPUX. The forms allow complete customization or not. We have the ability to a multivalue grid within a grid. This allows the support of sub-values. XLr8Developer uses our U2WebLink as middleware which is based on open source json.org, jabsorb.org and Quartz to name a few. U2WebLink uses UniObjects for Java with full logging and most importantly we have durable connections with Universe or Unidata that are sometimes problematic with UniObjects. U2WebLink supports replication for you Web transactions. You can have a multiple Web sites running with the same data. In order to support the replication effort, U2WebLink have full transaction logging built in with user tracking allowing full SOX complaint software. XLr8Resizer is an Eclipse based plug-in that allows you to resize Unidata or Universe accounts from this grid interface. There is no accounts that have to be loaded on the Unidata or Universe. This is a self-contained applications that uses the native commands to resize and create statistics. XLr8Installer is a Eclipse based plug-in that allows to create install scripts. Those scripts are then run against your accounts to build the release. The releases are agnostic, meaning you can build releases for Unidata or Universe. The finally script that can be used to update any customer in the world as long as you have access via UniObjects. For those customers that don't allow you access you can email the completed script that is fully encrypted to download the software on their own machines. Free. Yes you can have the XLr8Editor for free for 90 days starting on June 30, 2009. There will be complete information on how to download the only IBM U2 database tool that does version control on our web site at www.u2logic.com. Those 700 plus users that have the free version will be allowed to upgrade to current version at no cost for the first year. Detail will be posted on our web site as well. [/ad] Regards, Doug -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:25 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK We've so far just refused to use the gui sbclient. too expensive. i like ht etoolkit, but console mode is fine, and my users who telnet in NEED the console. I was thinking about Eclipse for SB development not userland. If the stuff we do in /MP and /PD.P could be abstracted into Eclipse, that would be wonderful. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
What are these prices ??? George R Smith It's me and you against the world. When do we attack? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:30 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK their whole method of marketing this limits growth so much. no one is going to pay these prices for this toolkit (i may be wrong, we wont). I had a bounce back from teh list, I apologize if this posts twice. charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote: Is anyone using the Eclipse SDK that was released recently (I think part of the UV 10.2 rollout pkg)? I am in the process of trying to download a LAMP development version of Eclipse. I didn't know Eclipse could be used with U2 development. I would take part in a webinar if one happened. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
I was ranting about SBClient licensing, not the Eclipse SDK, sorry. Off Topic. George R Smith wrote: What are these prices ??? George R Smith It's me and you against the world. When do we attack? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK
To go back to the original question: I used it during the beta for 10.3 and found that it was effective and has some genuinely nice features. And if you're running Eclipse anyway and you're familiar with that IDE, it's probably a good way to go. Certainly having the integrated debugger is a big step forward, once you can work out how to get through the configuration steps to get it working. Just be careful inspecting large variables - it is unbelievably slow. I was inspecting one variable that was holding a document I was building in code, and it took over 15 minutes to display the content during which time I was unable to do anything else. I guess that's pretty unusual (!) though - for the most part the debugger is a very welcome addition (certainly far better than the UniDebugger version). However, since I spend my time mostly in .Net rather than Eclipse, I have to say I don't have any intentions of running BDT other than out of general interest. It's too heavyweight - if you don't already have Eclipse taking up your resources to do other things - and whilst the syntax parsing is extremely good, it's not configurable so it won't handle the precompiler statements that I need. Some pieces are still rough around the edges and there are some useful shortcuts in other editors that would make it easier to navigate code, but these are niggles really - it is only the first release and I applaud IBM for doing something to counter the hideous ugliness that is ED. [sort-of-AD-ish-but-only-if-you're-really-pedantic-cos-its-answering-the-que stion] Personally I'll stick with mvDeveloper because it's so much more lightweight and I can play with the syntax as much as I like. BDT does have an API that can be used to integrate to e.g. source control systems like PRC, but I'm also adding something very similar to mvDeveloper to replace the piecemeal handlers that are in there now. The only real downside is that I can't do the same level of integration with the Basic debugger. That's probably the one time you really do want to crank Eclipse into life. [/sort-of-AD-ish-but-only-if-you're-really-pedantic-cos-its-answering-the-qu estion] Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Baker Hughes Sent: 18 June 2009 13:53 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: [U2] Basic Developer Toolkit - Eclipse SDK Is anyone using the Eclipse SDK that was released recently (I think part of the UV 10.2 rollout pkg)? I don't remember seeing any threads regarding it so I'm wondering if folks are just working away with it with no issues or questions, or if most haven't found a use for it, or haven't discovered it. I haven't had a project yet 'in my day job' that calls for it, but am thinking about other projects. Does anyone know of a fast-start guide? The look and feel is a lot like visual studio, but it's been a couple of years since I dabbled in that either. If Nathan R. or Marcie G. are listening, this could be an opportunity for a webinar. -Baker This communication, its contents and any file attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential proprietary information. Access by any other party without the express written permission of the sender is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this communication in error you may not copy, distribute or use the contents, attachments or information in any way. Please destroy it and contact the sender. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
