Re: [ubuntu-art] Backgrounds Wiki Policy (was: Human Helix)

2009-12-03 Thread Kenneth Wimer
On Thursday 03 December 2009 07:42:14 pm Chris Tooley wrote:
> > My other concern is that I never again want to deal the wiki surge
> > protection warning.
> 
> This is a great thing IMO. I remember trying to upload to the wiki and
> getting multiple surge protection warnings, as well as when I  was
> just trying to view the other submissions...
> 
> The only problem with flickr is that people without pro accounts are
> limited to a non-current-desktop resolution size.. Would the desktop
> selectors care about those size issues? Are they able to contact
> flickr users to request larger sizes?

We included any size for the first round. Then we emailed everyone to get 
permission, larger sizes, etc.

I think that the wiki should be used more for project pages. So if you really 
want to have an ongoing discussion in which several people take part and work 
together toward some design goal the wiki is the place for you.

The backgrounds are best kept in one place and currently flickr is simply the 
best free alternative we have that already draws large numbers of 
contributors.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Backgrounds Wiki Policy (was: Human Helix)

2009-12-03 Thread Chris Tooley
> My other concern is that I never again want to deal the wiki surge
> protection warning.

This is a great thing IMO. I remember trying to upload to the wiki and
getting multiple surge protection warnings, as well as when I  was
just trying to view the other submissions...

The only problem with flickr is that people without pro accounts are
limited to a non-current-desktop resolution size.. Would the desktop
selectors care about those size issues? Are they able to contact
flickr users to request larger sizes?

-Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Backgrounds Wiki Policy (was: Human Helix)

2009-12-03 Thread Thorsten Wilms
On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 15:20 +0100, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> On Thursday 03 December 2009 12:14:58 pm Thorsten Wilms wrote:

> > This would break current policy of no wallpapers on the wiki as agreed
> > on during UDS.
> > 
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid#No%20Wallpapers%20on%
> > 20the%20wiki,%20use%20Flickr!
> 
> Ouch, I didn't realize we agreed on that :p

We agreed on selecting only on flickr and explicitly stating so on the
wiki, at least.

Quite a while before UDS, I added the statement to the wiki, informed
you and got no complaints at all.

I said we should outright reject wallpapers on the wiki to not confuse
anyone. There was no opposition and my impression was that Ivanka and
you, Kenneth, were OK with that, but it wasn't noted in the Gobby doc.
So there, we only have: "Be explicit about the fact that submissions on
the wiki will not be included", as seen on:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid/Wallpaper_Contest_Planning

My main concern here is that one path is chosen and followed through the
whole cycle, so negative surprises are avoided.

My other concern is that I never again want to deal the wiki surge
protection warning.


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Backgrounds Wiki Policy (was: Human Helix)

2009-12-03 Thread Thorsten Wilms
On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 07:36 -0500, Saleel Velankar wrote:

> For the commenter, I feel that there is no way to know when some has
> responded to the critique/question, nevermind the trouble leaving some
> contact info. 
> I am a huge noob at wiki editing, so if any of that is wrong please
> set me right.

Well, you can subscribe to a page (or all pages below a page) and
receive notifications on changes. Not exactly comfortable compared to a
list.

(However, there ate no notifications on adding/deleting attachments.)

> The other/other viable solution would be to use the Ubuntu forums art
> subforum, to host the files, with the discussion happening here.

Forums seem to invite single-line comments and bad quoting habits ...


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Backgrounds Wiki Policy (was: Human Helix)

2009-12-03 Thread Kenneth Wimer
On Thursday 03 December 2009 12:14:58 pm Thorsten Wilms wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 23:22 +0100, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> > You should create a concept page at
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid
> >
> > It allows for a discussion, progress reports, etc.
> 
> This would break current policy of no wallpapers on the wiki as agreed
> on during UDS.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid#No%20Wallpapers%20on%
> 20the%20wiki,%20use%20Flickr!

Ouch, I didn't realize we agreed on that :p
> 
> It could be changed to say that wallpapers will only be selected from
> flickr and that the wiki should only be used if you really want
> discussion and if there will be several versions.
> 
> We could also say that adding a page for a wallpaper requires explicit
> permission.
> 
> With or without permission required, the rules would be much more
> complicated and thus more likely to not be understood/followed/enforced.
> 
> Note that this time, I'm not available to set up and keep an eye on a
> possible Backgrounds section.
> 
> The alternative would be to say that discussions about backgrounds have
> to happen here on this list and be done with it.

I think we need to sum up what came out of the UDS discussion and post it 
clearly to this list so that everyone understands. I'll do that later today or 
early tomorrow.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Backgrounds Wiki Policy (was: Human Helix)

2009-12-03 Thread Saleel Velankar
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 6:14 AM, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:

>
> The alternative would be to say that discussions about backgrounds have
> to happen here on this list and be done with it.
>
> --
> Thorsten Wilms
>

I support this for two reasons, setting up and maintaining a wiki page, has
always seemed to be rather tedious for the artist as well as the
commenter/critiquer.
As an example: the artist has to upload both the file, and the preview of
that file, to make a clickable preview, that does not stretch the page, and
quite often the preview really does the wallpaper no justice. For the
commenter, I feel that there is no way to know when some has responded to
the critique/question, nevermind the trouble leaving some contact info.
I am a huge noob at wiki editing, so if any of that is wrong please set me
right.

All these problems are avoided in the mailing list, artist can attach svgs,
and other files directly. Updates are automatically brought up to be
reviewed/mocked. Older files are also kept in the attachments.The commenters
can remain active in the discussion, and their critique is properly
attributed. Separate discussions and ideas (like this one) can pinch off in
a new thread.

The other/other viable solution would be to use the Ubuntu forums art
subforum, to host the files, with the discussion happening here.

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[ubuntu-art] Backgrounds Wiki Policy (was: Human Helix)

2009-12-03 Thread Thorsten Wilms
On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 23:22 +0100, Kenneth Wimer wrote:

> You should create a concept page at 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid
> 
> It allows for a discussion, progress reports, etc.


This would break current policy of no wallpapers on the wiki as agreed
on during UDS.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid#No%20Wallpapers%20on%
20the%20wiki,%20use%20Flickr!


It could be changed to say that wallpapers will only be selected from
flickr and that the wiki should only be used if you really want
discussion and if there will be several versions.

We could also say that adding a page for a wallpaper requires explicit
permission.

With or without permission required, the rules would be much more
complicated and thus more likely to not be understood/followed/enforced.

Note that this time, I'm not available to set up and keep an eye on a
possible Backgrounds section.


The alternative would be to say that discussions about backgrounds have
to happen here on this list and be done with it.


-- 
Thorsten Wilms

thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/


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