[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
1. When do you think the time will come for the change? How about when a law is passed requiring the use of the correct characters in public institutions? Well this law exists since May 2006 http://www.legi-internet.ro/index.php/LEGE_nr_183_din_16_mai_2006_p/242/0/ Is the ignorance of some Windows XP users more important than that? 2. Here a some reasons for changing the primary layout: - obeying the law; see article 4 here http://www.legi-internet.ro/index.php/Ordin_MCTI_privind_utilizarea/257/0/ - following standards; primary layout in SR 13392:2004 pictured here http://diacritice.sourceforge.net/tastaturi.html Microsoft changed the layout in order to comply with the law. You really don't see any problems with disregarding standards? -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
I think in real life de-facto standards are more important than laws or official standards but also think it would be better to have commas instead of cedilla sooner rather than later. We need to know what the costs are at this moment. What does the 'ignorance of some of the XP users' actually cover? Does a document or web page written with ș and ț show garbage instead of those charachers for most XP users? If so that is something to consider. I do not think we need to wait though until Vista is widespread and ș and ț are safe to use in Ubuntu. That is what we very much try to prevent with Ubuntu actually ;) -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Thanks for your comments Mișu. Here are my thoughts with regards to the points you raised. 1. I personally have a hard time reconciling the idea that in order to get Linux fixed, we have to wait for Windows Vista to gain significant market share. I might find this easier to understand if there weren't any standard to follow, but there is. I don't use Windows because things such as diacritics are broken, now if Linux just replicates those issues, then I'm not sure why I should use Linux. Admittedly this isn't related to freedesktop.org, but Ubuntu's bug #1 has the goal of decreasing Windows market. Seems silly to me to have a goal of decreasing Windows market share whilst at the same time waiting for an increase in market share in order to fix other bugs. 2. See Mihai Captă's comments. I agree entirely. Forgetting the issue of what should be the default layout, can we at least agree that we need to have the option available in Ubuntu UI that allows users to select the Romanian keyboard layouts that use the correct diacritics? Both Vista and Mac OS X allow me that luxury. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
The existing xkeyboard-config layout follows the standard to the letter. As Cristi Secară said it already, the SR 13392:2004 doesn't force you to set one of the supported layouts as primary and the other one as secondary. There is nothing against the law either in the Romanian xkeyboard-config file, the cited law only forces some categories of public clerks to use the standard, which they could very well do using the existing xkeyboard-config layouts. Let's not burn in flames over these issues. If you really want correct diacritics and know the difference, you should issue setxkbmap ro comma or setxkbmap ro academic and get what you want. There is nothing to fix, none of the included layouts are broken... As I said already, I think the optimal time to switch will be reached after a critical mass of Vista users will start to use the new diacritics and people will start to adapt to it. Right now I mostly see the negative reactions from the existing XP user base to the early Vista switchers that use the new layouts with commabellow diacritics. From what I see around me, the people have display issues with Word documents, webpages, mails, instant messages that use the new diacritics because they haven't applied the patch for XP that fixes the fonts. Sometimes it's not their choice, they are users in a corporate environment that have centralized policies for applying patches and hotfixes. Some software packages know how to borrow the commabellow diacritics from fonts that have it (Mozilla based products do this) and the text is legible, although noticeably uglier. Some other software have no workarounds and simply display empty squares. That hurts. I very much respect the fact that Ubuntu users are early switchers and always eager to try the bleeding edge. But please understand the deeper aspects of integrating technologies that are used in other operating systems too... I would have switched in my translation to commabellow diacritics years ago, but I know there are a lot of XP users that use GTK+ apps and they will have issues with displaying my perfect diacritics. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
I agree that we are discussing two separate problems here. We should split the conversation in two separate bugs. 1. It's true that we don't know what the ignorance of some Windows XP users covers, but that doesn't change the fact that it's only ignorance. We can't make decisions based on that. I did change my layout to academic and I even did it using GCconf so it plays nicely with gnome-keyboard-applet but that's not the point. The bug reporter is correct: the default Romanian keyboard layout does have incorrect characters (and so do the other ones that can be accessed using GUIs). When a user chooses a Romanian layout he expects it to produce correct characters. It isn't stated anywhere that the layouts work otherwise. Regarding the law, of course it doesn't force a private person or company to write correct Romanian, but shouldn't we use it as a base for our decisions? How are we furthering the advancement of Ubuntu if it's not even readily available to users working for the state? I totally agree with Jani and ctomer regarding Vista's market share. This whole cedilla vs. comma issue is much bigger than just correct display. It affect language aids, search, database and many more categories of programs and I'm sure you are aware of that. It has nothing to do with the bleeding edge. Besides, Ubuntu is build for regular users, not for early adopters. 2. You say that the SR 13392:2004 doesn't force you to set one of the supported layouts as primary and the other one as secondary and I agree. But aren't the layouts in the standard called exactly primary and secondary? Also, the law I mentioned earlier specifically recommends the use of the primary layout. Is there any good reason to disregard that recommendation? 3. The translations are a different issue that I have already raised on the Ubuntu Romanian Translators mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ro -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Ok, then please close this bug, it is misleading, there are no incorrect characters in the Romanian keyboard layout. Better open one for changing the default layout in the Romanian xkeyboard-config file to the existing academic layout. But this should rather happen upstream, in the xkeyboard-config bugzilla. But I'm telling you beforehand, this will most likely happen 6 to 18 months from now. However, Ubuntu (or Gnome?) may tweak their graphical tool to their liking, without any change to the existing xkeyboard-config file, which fully implements the standard. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
I think you misread my last comment. I think the bug is valid and the bug reporter is correct: the default Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters. When a user chooses a Romanian layout he expects it to produce correct characters. It isn't stated anywhere that the layout works otherwise. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
I hope simple sentences will help a bit: 1) There are no incorrect characters in the RO layout in xkeyboard- config. If you do not care why most texts in Romanian are written with sceddilla and tcedilla, that's another issue. The RO implementation fully implements the existing standard and may be used to enforce the new legislation. 2) The bug reporter has a problem with the graphical tool used to changed layouts. The layout that he wants as default exists in the xkeyboard-config file but it is not exposed in the graphical tool used in Ubuntu. Again, this is not a problem in xkeyboad-config. 3) The default layout in the Romanian xkeyboard-config file will change when most people will be able to *read* the commabelow diacritics. I won't call them clueless or ignorant or whatever. ETA: 6 to 18 months. 4) But it will still be the secondary layout in the new standard until there are a significant number of Romanian hardware keyboards. You already have everything you need to fix this problem in your graphical tool. You have all my support on the xkeyboard-config side, but I don't think I have to add anything to xkeyboard-config to make your graphical tool do what the bug reporter wants. I'm open to suggestions and discussions if things are relevant to xkeyboard-config. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Unless anyone has any major objections, I plan on changing the title and description to something that specifically relates to the keyboard options in the Ubuntu UI, or lack thereof. Either that, or close the bug and raise one that more accurately describes the problem? This will allow separate bugs to be raised, if necessary, for other issues such as the default layout, whether there should be cedillas at all, translations or whatever. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Mișu, I know most texts in Romanian are written with cedillas but I fail to see how that makes the cedilla characters less incorrect. I don't understand what you are saying. Are the characters correct because they are widely used? ctomer, I think you should add default to the title and change the steps to reproduce part of the description to mention setxkbmap ro instead of the Ubuntu GUI. That would make the bug perfectly adequate for xkeyboard-config. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:06:47 -, Mişu Moldovan wrote: 3) The default layout in the Romanian xkeyboard-config file will change when most people will be able to *read* the commabelow diacritics. I won't call them clueless or ignorant or whatever. ETA: 6 to 18 months. How long it will take for a change here to appear there ? I mean the propagation delay. When will be the end user affected by a today's change [in Ubuntu, and/or else] ? Cristi -- Cristian Secară http://www.secarica.ro/ -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Dear Mihai, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is... Reductio ad absurdum: let's suppose there are some incorrect characters in the RO xkeyboard-config file, can you please take a look at it and show us how to correct them? I suppose not, we were mainly talking about changing the default layout, nobody found flaws in the current RO layouts and the characters described there. In theory, the cedilla diacritics are indeed incorrectly used for writing Romanian, in practice however some users are still unable to read or type the commabelow ones, so they still use the latin2 diacritics. Most of them cannot tell the difference and do not give a damn. Cedilla diacritics are still needed for compatibility reasons and they are correctly described in the RO xkeyboard-file. Jani, the names have their history. std and winkeys are names that xkeyboard-config maintainers use to describe standard and microsoft style layouts in all their files. comma was a name picked by Marius Andreiana for the ASTIQ variant that implemented the commabelow diacritics for the first time and academic was a name coined by Sorin Paliga, a linguist and MacOS user that has also participated to some of the meetings for SR 13392:2004 and that has been suggested to me by Cristi Secărică, the spiritual father of the new standard. If someone thinks of better names for the comma and academic layout, I could change them. However, keep in mind that the comma layout will become default in the near future and default will probably become cedilla. Cristi, a change in xkeyboard-config takes a while to propagate. First there needs to be an official release from the xkeyboard-config maintainers and then the distributions will start to include the new layout included in the new official release. Bleeding edge distributions like Ubuntu or Fedora Core would take about six months, others would take even more: 12 or even 18 months (think Debian stable). I'd say that if I want to change something in the xkeyboard-config file I would have to think 6 months in advance. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Dear Mișu, we were only talking about changing the default layout. In practice, some users will never be able to read the comma characters (Windows XP). In practice, some users will always need to write using the cedilla characters for reasons of compatibility with legacy software. That is the only reasons why those layouts exist. Cristian Secară explains this very well on his site and gives a warning to those who want to install the cedilla layouts on Windows Vista Atenţie ! Nerecomandat ! Instalaţi doar dacă ştiţi că vă este absolut necesar ! that means Attention ! Not recommended ! Install only if you know it is absolutely necessary ! I'm not saying you should remove the cedilla layouts from xkeyboard-config like Vista did. All I'm saying is that you can't have such a layout as default. You can't have people unknowingly write texts using non-existing characters. How are people supposed to know that using the default Romanian layout produces incorrect characters? setxkbmap doesn't even print a warning message. You say that people cannot tell the difference and do not give a damn. Well, we know the difference and give a damn. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Mișu, we all agree the xkeyboard-config files have all the ro layouts there and setxkbmap can be used to choose any of them. (they may not have all the diacritics for minorities as required by the law, I am not sure) We need those exposed in the GUI as well so anyone can choose them, that's why it has been reassigned to the appropriate package, I think there's no disagreement there either. The names are only descriptive for those who know what comma and academic stand for in this context. The ones mentioned by Cristi being used by Vista sound semore nsible to me. So we could have Romanian (now academic) and Romanian Programmers (comma) and the same ones with cedilla added to the name as well as keeping winkeys (instead of Legacy). Does the name imply which is the default? If _now_ we changed these names which make sense in the long term, can we still make the cedilla version the default? As for changes being prepared in advance that's not necessary at all, we can easily add a patch to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu anytime, as long as there is consensus about what needs changing. So the obstacle is only deciding whether a change is needed and if it is needed now no requirement to wait for upstream release if we think something should be done now. We should be as close to upstream of course, but not block on it. ** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) Status: New = Invalid -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
having just seen what ș and ț are rendered in XP I tend to agree it is not a 100% good idea to use those by default :( still, if those correct characters are not getting used the situation will persist indefinitely. ** Summary changed: - Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters + Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI -- Romanian layout with ș and ț in it is not among the options in the GUI https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
The bug is not a bug, it's a feature, the Romanian layout works as intended. The behaviour in xkeyboard-config will change when the time will come, see below for details. Unfortunately there are two different problems discussed in this bug: 1) should the diacritics in the default layout be changed? (that means: scedilla -scommabelow tcedilla-tcommabelow) 2) should the default layout be changed from Romanian Programmers (secondary layout in the the SR 13392:2004 standard) to Romanian (primary layout in SR 13392:2004)? 1. I think the time has almost come for the first change. MacOS has had the commabelow diacritics in the RO layout for a long time, but the use of the Romanian layout from MacOS in practice is rather insignificant. MS has just introduced the correct diacritics in the primary layout of Romanian Vista, but Vista is still a long way from becoming the mainstream OS, most Romanian users that use diacritics are still using the default layout from XP, with the cedilla diacritics. Although there are fixes for XP users (the aforementioned patch for the output and the layouts from secarica.ro for the input), people are mostly not aware of them and get angry when they see broken diacritics from Vista or MacOS (or hypothetically Linux) users. I think it's important to wait for the number of Vista and MacOS users to reach a critical mass before making this change, in order to annoy as few users as possible. We are close. (The we must be part of the change argument doesn't really weight much, the Linux usage of the RO layout is really insignificant in the overall picture and I think MS should bear the pain and the blame for this transition). 2. I don't agree with the second change. There are historical reasons for the Programmers layout being the primary layout in X and xkeyboard-config, the main one being the lack of hardware Romanian keyboards. No, Jani, you weren't living under a rock, I safely assume that under 1% percent of the keyboards in use in Romania are localized (and what a shame that is, even for a country from the Balkans, Romania is the only one with this problem). Besides that, I happen to know a few users of the Romanian layout in X (OK, I've just counted them, they are eight, not including me). Except one, they all prefer the Programmers layout. The one that doesn't use the Programmers layout uses the winkeys layout (the QWERTZ one from XP) because he is stuck with a German keyboard. Granted, my ad-hoc poll is a very subjective one, but let's build a better statistics from asking the Romanian translators what layout they prefer and use. I bet 10:1 that it's the Programmers layout. So what would be the reason for changing the primary layout? Windows has it's default own layout (which in Vista is one from the standard), MacOS has it's own wacky layout, xkeyboard-config has it's own default layout (which is also included in the standard). What is the problem with that? People get angry when defaults are changed (as Manfred Pohler's change in the X layout has already proved). I've just returned from a week-long trip, please excuse my late reply. Thank you for subscribing me, Jani. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
After reading Mihai and Criti's comments I understant this better and I also think that the preferences UI should only show the comma variants instead of the cedilla ones. So Romanian Standard (called academic in xkb) Romanian Programmers (called comma in xkb) Romanian Legacy(?) (Called winkeys in xkb) current std and default from xkb, the ones with cedillas should not be shown in the GUI IMHO. I still think the default should be Programmers because even if it does not provide the diacritics in the first level, it would cause less confusion, most keyboards here having US layout. This is best solved by upstream, it's not an Ubuntu issue, so xkeyboard-config should be told after there's some consensus what the best way to change the layout file (if at all - it may need to include keys for the diacritics used by minority languages in Ro) and then to change the gnome keyboard preferences applet as well. I took the liberty of subscribing Misu Moldovan since he was active in the past in getting the romanian layouts in xkb and probably has some insight as well. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371 -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Jani, I'm glad you agree with us on the necessity of using commas. However, I disagree in regards to the default layout. Romanian keyboards are indeed in minority right now, but I'm convinced the situation will change. After all, the standard was published in 2004 and Windows started using it only this year. The manufacturers are starting to adapt. I've seen Romanian keyboards delivered with Fujitsu-Siemens PCs in a lab at Politehnica University and I've read that all the Romanians working for the EU are given Romanian keyboards. If someone choses a Romanian layout he expects it to be different from the US one. Regarding the majority of users, Windows is ubiquitous and it's default layout is the Standard layout. Thus, there will be no confusion for the users; in fact, the keyboards will function exactly as expected. I don't see any reason why Ubuntu should diverge from SR 13392:2004 which, coincidentally, is also enforced by the Windows monopoly. I think Programmers is the default layout in xkb because the matter was decided by programmers but we should not forget that Ubuntu is an OS for everybody. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Mihai, I have no strong opinion on this. But we shouldn't equate the choice between std and programmer layout with the choice of primarily pleasing programmers or 'regular human beings' ;) Most non-techies still have us keyboards. I think the idea is to annoy as few users with each release. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:58:13 -, Jani Monoses wrote: Romanian Standard (called academic in xkb) Romanian Programmers (called comma in xkb) Romanian Legacy(?) (Called winkeys in xkb) Please ask Mişu Moldovan for more info about the academic name. I remember there was an issue with someone (Sorin Paliga) who claimed its acceptance for the use of the name academic for keyboard layout. Perhaps a simple request sent to Sorin Paliga may solve the dispute (Sorin is a Mac user). His e-mail is paliga AT bastral DOT ro and/or sorin_paliga AT mac DOT com Maybe Mişu Moldovan can tell more on this. This is best solved by upstream, it's not an Ubuntu issue, so xkeyboard-config should be told after there's some consensus what the best way to change the layout file (if at all - it may need to include keys for the diacritics used by minority languages in Ro) Please look at this documents: http://www.secarica.ro/kbdro_help_romanian_standard_en.pdf http://www.secarica.ro/kbdro_help_romanian_programmers_en.pdf While the Romanian keyboard standard does not force which accented characters should be generated by the use of the dead keys, the actual implementation should take care of the official minorities. The above documents claims to cover all those. Another comment: - decimal separator from layout 1 generates comma - decimal separator from layout 2 generates dot For each, AltGr+[decimal separator] generates the opposite. Maybe this is a detail that counts in which default keyboard should be offered at install time, for example when some initial IP are set up, or something else. Or maybe not. But it is better to look at all aspects ... Cristi -- Cristian Secară http://www.secarica.ro/ -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
I agree with Mihai that the default should be Romanian Standard. I don't see good reason to deviate from the established standard. On the contrary, that fact that there is a standard should make the decision even easier. However, I do see good reasons for not making Romanian Programmers the default. As a user, if I'd want to change my keyboard layout to Romanian, I (and most likely your typical Romanian user) wouldn't expect the diacritics to be accessible on the 3rd level. My first reaction would be to think that something is broken if diacritics didn't start appearing upon hitting keys on the right-hand side of the keyboard. I would think that the Romanian Programmers layout would be a keyboard layout foreign to most Romanians. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Since I have never used the ro keyboard layout (except now in connection with this discussion) I'll leave it to others to decide. But there is a difference between seasoned users who have set up and used a ro layout in the past on a US keyboard and those who are new to computers and their keyboards (most that are sold now are still US) does not emit the codes that are on the keys. I personally know nobody with a hw ro layout keyboard but maybe I have been living under a rock :) -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
so which would be the preferred romanian layout by default? comma or academic? -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Academic. It is the primary layout in the Romanian standard SR 13392:2004 and it matches the key labels on Romanian keyboards. ** Description changed: Description of problem: The Romanian letters Ș and Ț are incorrectly represented when the Romanian keyboard is selected. Ș and Ț are both incorrectly represented using cedillas instead of commas. - The incorrect Unicode characters are Ş - U015E (S with a cedilla), ş - U015F (s with a cedilla), Ţ - U0162 (T with a cedilla) şi ţ - U0163 (t with a cedilla) - The correct Unicode characters are Ș - U0218 (S with a comma), ș - U0219 (s with a comma), Ț - U021A (T with a comma) şi ț - U021B (t with a comma) + The incorrect Unicode characters are Ş - U015E (S with a cedilla), ş - U015F (s with a cedilla), Ţ - U0162 (T with a cedilla) and ţ - U0163 (t with a cedilla) + The correct Unicode characters are Ș - U0218 (S with a comma), ș - U0219 (s with a comma), Ț - U021A (T with a comma) and ț - U021B (t with a comma) The rules relating to the the Romanian language are dictated by the Academia Română, and they have provided specific advice regarding the representation of Romanian characters: http://www.secarica.ro/InstitLingvTastatura-20031008.pdf (in Romanian) - For more precise information as to the why the cedilla's are incorrect: + For more precise information as to the why the cedillas are incorrect: http://www.secarica.ro/html/s-uri_si_t-uri.html (in Romanian): Steps to reproduce: 1. Download and burn Ubuntu, either 6.10 or 7.04. 2. Boot any PC using the CD. 3. When the OS has loaded, select System Preferences Keyboard 4. Select Layouts 5. Click on Add 6. Select Romania Standard, then Ok 7. Select Romania Standard, and move it to the top of the list. 8. Close 9. Select Applications Accessories Text Editor 10. Using a British keyboard(physical keyboard), press the keys marked ; and ' (both are just to the right hand side of the letter L) Actual results: ş and ţ appear with cedillas. Expected results: ș and ț to appear with commas. Notes: The Romanian keyboard layout on Mac OS X 10.4.9 works as expected, as does Windows Vista. Windows XP and below are broken like Ubuntu (and most likely other distros too). -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
comma == academic cedilla != academic I'd say comma==academic is better. As I pointed out, Windows has updated it's fonts to support these characters. So displaying these characters on XP, Vista, OS X and Linux will not create problems. More over, some of the Romanian translations in Launchpad contain cedilla based diacritics instead of the correct comma based ones. I think the number of such errors can be reduced if the default layout produces the correct characters. Many computer users that do use diacritics in writing do not even know about this issue (comma vs. cedilla) (I know many very computer literate (professors, university assistants, C.S. students, etc.) that had/still have no idea about it.) -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
ro academic and ro comma are xkb layouts that should replace those currently used, ro and ro std. See http://diacritice.sourceforge.net/tastaturi.html for more details. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Lucian: comma != academic I am talking about the layouts. Both of these provide the comma t and s instead of the cedilla ones. I agree the correct characters need to be generated, but not sure which of these two keyboard layouts to make the default. MihaI: while it may match romanian keyboards, those are vastly outnumbered by us style keyboard in romania, so I am not sure it would be practical to use academic vs comma. What layouts do OS X and Vista set up by default for ro? -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
right now there's std and winkeys we definitely should add comma and academic to the list should we remove any of the existing ones? -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
We should remove the layouts with cedillas from the graphical configuration utilities. Advanced users that want to use those layouts can set them using setxkbmap. This is the situation now, only reversed, the comma layouts are hidden. Regarding academic vs. comma, I strongly believe we should follow the standards. SR 13392:2004 defines academic as primary standard. Moreover, the de facto standard (i.e. on Windows Vista) is also academic. I understand that programmers might be better served by the comma layout, but academic is much better suited for the general public. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
** Description changed: Description of problem: The Romanian letters Ș and Ț are incorrectly represented when the Romanian keyboard is selected. Ș and Ț are both incorrectly represented using cedillas instead of commas. - The incorrect Unicode characters are Ş - U015E (S with a cedilla), ş - U015F (s with a cedilla), Ţ - U0162 (T with a cedilla) and ţ - U0163 (t with a cedilla) - The correct Unicode characters are Ș - U0218 (S with a comma), ș - U0219 (s with a comma), Ț - U021A (T with a comma) and ț - U021B (t with a comma) + The incorrect Unicode characters are: + Ş - U015E (S with a cedilla), ş - U015F (s with a cedilla), + Ţ - U0162 (T with a cedilla), ţ - U0163 (t with a cedilla). + The correct Unicode characters are: + Ș - U0218 (S with a comma), ș - U0219 (s with a comma), + Ț - U021A (T with a comma), ț - U021B (t with a comma). The rules relating to the the Romanian language are dictated by the Academia Română, and they have provided specific advice regarding the representation of Romanian characters: http://www.secarica.ro/InstitLingvTastatura-20031008.pdf (in Romanian) For more precise information as to the why the cedillas are incorrect: http://www.secarica.ro/html/s-uri_si_t-uri.html (in Romanian): Steps to reproduce: 1. Download and burn Ubuntu, either 6.10 or 7.04. 2. Boot any PC using the CD. 3. When the OS has loaded, select System Preferences Keyboard 4. Select Layouts 5. Click on Add 6. Select Romania Standard, then Ok 7. Select Romania Standard, and move it to the top of the list. 8. Close 9. Select Applications Accessories Text Editor 10. Using a British keyboard(physical keyboard), press the keys marked ; and ' (both are just to the right hand side of the letter L) Actual results: ş and ţ appear with cedillas. Expected results: ș and ț to appear with commas. Notes: The Romanian keyboard layout on Mac OS X 10.4.9 works as expected, as does Windows Vista. Windows XP and below are broken like Ubuntu (and most likely other distros too). -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Maybe some further info might help: - the Linguistic Institute of the Romanian Academy only defines a comma unde s and t, so this is the way to go for any new project; cedilla unde s and t simply does not exists, officially speaking - the cedilla under s and t is there only beacuse back in 1987 the ISO 8859-2 (Latin 2) standard associated these two characters with the Romanian language - one of the reason for the above was that no Unicode characters s and t with comma below existed at that time; these have been introduced later, with Unicode version 3.0 - for 8 bit representation, the only standard that suits the Romanian language is ISO 8859-16 (Latin 10), which only appeared in 2001 - the only character recommended by the Linguistic Institute of the Romanian Academy that is outside the ISO 8859-16 standard is a character for dialog and white pause, of equal lenght, which is longer than the hyphen sign; in the Romanian keyboard standard, this has been associated with the en-dash (U+2013) - Microsoft has no support for correct Romanian language in 8 bit representation; their CP1250 codepage is based around ISO 8859-2; no CP based on ISO 8859-16 actually exists; however, Microsoft strongly discourages *any* non-Unicode approach, so most likely 8 bit support for correct Romanian language will never be implemented (which is not that bad, in my opinion) - officially, the Romanian language is normally supported by ISO/IEC 10646-1:2003 (i.e. Unicode) standard and by ISO/IEC 8859-16:2001 (Latin 10) standard if 8 bit support is explicitly required - the correct Romanian ortography is enforced by law; because of this, Microsoft was forced to add support for correct Romanian language; this is limited to Unicode implementations, because the 8 bit support is officially discontinued; to date, only limited support is provided for WinXP (four updated fonts, Arial, Times New Roman, Trebuchet and Verdana); on the other hand, the fonts traditionally used for UI are already correct since long time ago (Microsoft Sans Serif and Tahoma); Palatino Linotype is also always correct Now: the ş and ţ with cedilla should be left there only for backward compatibility reasons with some older applications. New keyboard layouts containing cedillas are NOT recommended, but may be necessary in some circumstances. I don't know the past situation on Linux systems. I will describe wat is today the situation on Windows Vista: - the old Microsoft Windows Romanian keyboard layout, formerly called Romanian, is still there for compatibility reasons; it has been renamed to Romanian (Legacy); the layout uses ş and ţ with cedilla, as before, and is a QWERTZ layout, as before - layout 1 from the Romanian keyboard standard has been implemented with the name Romanian (Standard); this one is considered the main Romanian keyboard layout, because it provides access to the complete Romanian alphabet directly on first level; this layout was first introduced as a standard in 1998 and has been later revised in 2004; this layout uses *only* ș and ț with comma below - layout 2 from the Romanian keyboard standard has been implemented with the name Romanian (Programmers); this ons has been added in the 2004 standard version merely as a facility (1) for programmers who only occasionally write in true Romanian language and (2) for Linux users who claimed they wanted US keyboard al the time, but wanted to be able to write in true Romanian language on purpose; this is true mainly for console users (or a mix), not for desktop-only users; this layout uses *only* ș and ț with comma below It is important to note that the Romanian keyboard standard provides no mandatory names for its layouts, it only *recommends* Romanian for layout 1 and Romanian (Programmers) for layout 2. Beacuse of old existing layout names, in practice simply stay with Romanian with no other suffix may lead to confusions. As far as I know, on Linux the most preferred layout is the second layout, that one which in Vista is called Romanian (Programmers). Giving the fact that this one has been introduced somewhat as a special request by Linux users, maybe it should be the default one, however, this should really be state by Linux users, not by me. The law recommends layout 1 as THE one, but does not force (by law) neither of the two in particular. As a personal opinion, the Windows Vista Romanian keyboard layout names are quite well choosed. My keyboard layout driver for Windows XP now follows the exact names from Vista. Additionally I have build an additional two layouts, with the single difference that they are using ş and ţ with cedilla. These are not recommended to be used, but I agree that sometimes there is no other way round. My keyboard layout names are like that: - Romanian (Standard) - Romainan (Standard, with cedilla) - Romanian (Programmers) - Romanian (Programmers, with cedilla) - Romainan (Legacy) As stated before, the first, third and fifth
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Cristi, from your comment it is not clear to me whether you think it's better for Ubuntu to swicth to commas by default or not. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Microsoft has released patches for some of it's fonts http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0ec6f335-c3de-44c5-a13d-a1e7cea5ddeaDisplayLang=en so XP should be covered for those with genuine windows boxes that can do WGA updates. See this for comments on the pack: http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2006/12/09/1245128.aspx I've *heard* (I don't have the time to search for it, maybe someone else will clear it up later) that EU mandates that each country's character sets must be supported by the OS (I guess for OS' that they deploy in institutions). And anyways, using the comma-based characters IS the proper way to solve the problem at hand. Every other major OS is doing the right thing. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
** Description changed: Description of problem: The Romanian letters Ş and Ţ are incorrectly represented when the Romanian keyboard is selected. Ş and Ţ are both incorrectly represented using cedillas instead of commas. The incorrect Unicode characters are U015E (S with a cedilla), U015F (s with a cedilla), U0162 (T with a cedilla) şi U0163 (t with a cedilla) The correct Unicode characters are U0218 (S with a comma), U0219 (s with a comma), U021A (T with a comma) şi U021B (t with a comma) The rules relating to the the Romanian language are dictated by the Academia Romana, and they have provided specific advice regarding the representation of Romanian characters: http://www.secarica.ro/InstitLingvTastatura-20031008.pdf (in Romanian) For more precise information as to the why the cedilla's are incorrect: http://www.secarica.ro/html/s-uri_si_t-uri.html (in Romanian): Steps to reproduce: 1. Download and burn Ubuntu, either 6.10 or 7.04. 2. Boot any PC using the CD. 3. When the OS has loaded, select System Preferences Keyboard 4. Select Layouts 5. Click on Add 6. Select Romania Standard, then Ok 7. Select Romania Standard, and move it to the top of the list. 8. Close 9. Select Applications Accessories Text Editor 10. Using a British keyboard(physical keyboard), press the keys marked ; and ' (both are just to the right hand side of the letter L) Actual results: ş and ţ appear with cedillas. Expected results: - ş and ţ to appear with commas. + ș and ț to appear with commas. Notes: The Romanian keyboard layout on Mac OS X 10.4.9 works as expected, as does Windows Vista. Windows XP and below are broken like Ubuntu (and most likely other distros too). -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
** Description changed: Description of problem: - The Romanian letters Ş and Ţ are incorrectly represented when the Romanian keyboard is selected. Ş and Ţ are both incorrectly represented using cedillas instead of commas. - The incorrect Unicode characters are U015E (S with a cedilla), U015F (s with a cedilla), U0162 (T with a cedilla) şi U0163 (t with a cedilla) - The correct Unicode characters are U0218 (S with a comma), U0219 (s with a comma), U021A (T with a comma) şi U021B (t with a comma) + The Romanian letters Ș and Ț are incorrectly represented when the Romanian keyboard is selected. Ș and Ț are both incorrectly represented using cedillas instead of commas. + The incorrect Unicode characters are Ş - U015E (S with a cedilla), ş - U015F (s with a cedilla), Ţ - U0162 (T with a cedilla) şi ţ - U0163 (t with a cedilla) + The correct Unicode characters are Ș - U0218 (S with a comma), ș - U0219 (s with a comma), Ț - U021A (T with a comma) şi ț - U021B (t with a comma) - The rules relating to the the Romanian language are dictated by the Academia Romana, and they have provided specific advice regarding the representation of Romanian characters: + The rules relating to the the Romanian language are dictated by the Academia Română, and they have provided specific advice regarding the representation of Romanian characters: http://www.secarica.ro/InstitLingvTastatura-20031008.pdf (in Romanian) For more precise information as to the why the cedilla's are incorrect: http://www.secarica.ro/html/s-uri_si_t-uri.html (in Romanian): Steps to reproduce: 1. Download and burn Ubuntu, either 6.10 or 7.04. 2. Boot any PC using the CD. 3. When the OS has loaded, select System Preferences Keyboard 4. Select Layouts 5. Click on Add 6. Select Romania Standard, then Ok 7. Select Romania Standard, and move it to the top of the list. 8. Close 9. Select Applications Accessories Text Editor 10. Using a British keyboard(physical keyboard), press the keys marked ; and ' (both are just to the right hand side of the letter L) Actual results: ş and ţ appear with cedillas. Expected results: ș and ț to appear with commas. Notes: The Romanian keyboard layout on Mac OS X 10.4.9 works as expected, as does Windows Vista. Windows XP and below are broken like Ubuntu (and most likely other distros too). -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
The reason for using cedillas in the page explaining why the cedilla is wrong, is because the correct glyphs are missing from Windows systems prior to Vista version. Unlike Firefox or Opera, Internet Explorer up to version 6 is unable to make substitution for missing glyphs, so in order for a Windows user to be able to read what I have written, cedillas were used instead. The same apply for many other Romanian web pages as well and I am expecting this situation to remain unchanged for the next 1-2 years, maybe even more. Cristi -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
It's true that the cedilla versions are used a lot. But that doesn't make it right. As a fix, I switched my layout from ro std to ro academic. The only difference is that the cedilla is replaced with the comma. This is the correct layout (used by both Windows Vista and MacOS X) and it should be the default in Ubuntu. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
For a web page explaining why the cedilla is wrong, http://www.secarica.ro/html/s-uri_si_t-uri.html sure uses cedilla a lot in the text body. Talk about mixed messages. In fact, the only instances of the comma I could find in a quick browse-through were in the last paragraph about MacOS, which contains the text Ș/ș şi Ț/ț. Note that şi is still written with the cedilla though. *shakes head* -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
** Description changed: Description of problem: - The Romanian letters Ş and Ţ are incorrectly represented when the Romanian keyboard is selected. Ş and Ţ are both incorrectly represent using cedillas instead of commas. + The Romanian letters Ş and Ţ are incorrectly represented when the Romanian keyboard is selected. Ş and Ţ are both incorrectly represented using cedillas instead of commas. The incorrect Unicode characters are U015E (S with a cedilla), U015F (s with a cedilla), U0162 (T with a cedilla) şi U0163 (t with a cedilla) The correct Unicode characters are U0218 (S with a comma), U0219 (s with a comma), U021A (T with a comma) şi U021B (t with a comma) The rules relating to the the Romanian language are dictated by the Academia Romana, and they have provided specific advice regarding the representation of Romanian characters: http://www.secarica.ro/InstitLingvTastatura-20031008.pdf (in Romanian) For more precise information as to the why the cedilla's are incorrect: http://www.secarica.ro/html/s-uri_si_t-uri.html (in Romanian): Steps to reproduce: 1. Download and burn Ubuntu, either 6.10 or 7.04. 2. Boot any PC using the CD. 3. When the OS has loaded, select System Preferences Keyboard 4. Select Layouts 5. Click on Add 6. Select Romania Standard, then Ok 7. Select Romania Standard, and move it to the top of the list. 8. Close 9. Select Applications Accessories Text Editor 10. Using a British keyboard(physical keyboard), press the keys marked ; and ' (both are just to the right hand side of the letter L) Actual results: ş and ţ appear with cedillas. Expected results: ş and ţ to appear with commas. Notes: The Romanian keyboard layout on Mac OS X 10.4.9 works as expected, as does Windows Vista. Windows XP and below are broken like Ubuntu (and most likely other distros too). -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
Confirming the bug. Should be an easy fix somewhere in the keyboard layouts settings files. -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
** Description changed: Description of problem: The Romanian letters Ş and Ţ are incorrectly represented when the Romanian keyboard is selected. Ş and Ţ are both incorrectly represent using cedillas instead of commas. The incorrect Unicode characters are U015E (S with a cedilla), U015F (s with a cedilla), U0162 (T with a cedilla) şi U0163 (t with a cedilla) The correct Unicode characters are U0218 (S with a comma), U0219 (s with a comma), U021A (T with a comma) şi U021B (t with a comma) The rules relating to the the Romanian language are dictated by the Academia Romana, and they have provided specific advice regarding the representation of Romanian characters: http://www.secarica.ro/InstitLingvTastatura-20031008.pdf (in Romanian) For more precise information as to the why the cedilla's are incorrect: http://www.secarica.ro/html/s-uri_si_t-uri.html (in Romanian): Steps to reproduce: 1. Download and burn Ubuntu, either 6.10 or 7.04. 2. Boot any PC using the CD. 3. When the OS has loaded, select System Preferences Keyboard 4. Select Layouts 5. Click on Add 6. Select Romania Standard, then Ok 7. Select Romania Standard, and move it to the top of the list. 8. Close 9. Select Applications Accessories Text Editor - 10. Using a British keyboard, press the keys marked ; and ' (both are just to the right hand side of the letter L) + 10. Using a British keyboard(physical keyboard), press the keys marked ; and ' (both are just to the right hand side of the letter L) Actual results: ş and ţ appear with cedillas. Expected results: ş and ţ to appear with commas. Notes: The Romanian keyboard layout on Mac OS X 10.4.9 works as expected, as does Windows Vista. Windows XP and below are broken like Ubuntu (and most likely other distros too). -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 108057] Re: Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters
** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) Sourcepackagename: None = xkeyboard-config ** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) Target: None = ubuntu-7.10 -- Romanian keyboard layout has incorrect characters https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/108057 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
