[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Launchpad Bug Tracker]

This bug was fixed in the package ubuntu-docs - 17.04.1

---
ubuntu-docs (17.04.1) zesty; urgency=medium

  * scripts/validate.sh:
- Modified so it can be called via a symlink from 'ubuntu-help/C'
  or 'html'.
  * power-hibernate.page:
- Changed command due to upstart->systemd transition.
  * Bump version to 17.04 / zesty.
  * html/ubuntu.xsl:
- Make unordered lists bulleted and not numbered (LP: #1649554).
  * keyboard-layouts.page:
- Note about how to show rarely used xkb layout variants.
  * Updated ubuntu-help.pot.
  * debian/compat, debian/control:
- Bump to debhelper version 9

  [ Chris Perry ]
  * tips-specialchars.page:
- Section "Compose key" updated (LP: #1624778).
  * addremove-ppa.page:
- Revise PPA description (LP: #1628706).
  * keyboard-layouts.page:
- Move text of marginal note.
  * mouse-middleclick.page, mouse-touchpad-click.page:
- Revise description of middle-click from touchpad (LP: #1617718).
  * power-lowpower.page:
- Update since related control in "System Settings -> Power" has
  been removed (LP: #1599264, LP: #1641786).
  * accounts-add.page, net-firewall-on-off.page:
- Minor clarifications.
  * net-wireless-*.page, net-problem.page:
- GUI conformity modifications (LP: #1637126)
- New shared section (LP: #977251)
  * addremove-install.page, addremove-remove.page:
- Clearer description of Ubuntu Software's focus on applications
  (LP: #1637861).
- Mentioning of snaps (LP: #1658785).
  * printing-setup.page:
- Section about network printer added (LP: #1630272).
  * mouse-mousekeys.page:
- Improved description of mouse keys (LP: #964727).
  * disk-*.page:
- GUI conformity modifications (LP: #1651360).
  * List type explicitly stated on multiple pages.
  * addremove-creator.page:
- New page describing Startup Disk Creator (LP: #1569532).
  * security-settings.page:
- New page describing the Security & Privacy panel in System
  Settings (LP: #1200381).

  [ Doug Smythies ]
  * scripts/validate.sh:
- Changed to --strict validation.
  * ubuntu-help/C/legal.xml:
- Specify https to avoid a "permanently moved" redirection.

 -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson   Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:11:00
+0100

** Changed in: ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released

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Title:
  Snap documentation in 17.04?

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

** Changed in: ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu)
   Status: In Progress => Fix Committed

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Title:
  Snap documentation in 17.04?

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Launchpad Bug Tracker]

** Branch linked: lp:~clissold345/ubuntu-docs/fix-for-1658785

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Title:
  Snap documentation in 17.04?

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

On 2017-02-09 21:11, Chris Perry wrote:
> But I'll keep the bit that mentions that some applications are
> available in both formats.

+1

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

Hi Gunnar, thanks for your reply. Yes that's fine. For 17.04 I'll drop
the bit about snap packages having advantages over Debian packages and
I'll drop the bit about recommending the snap package (in the case that
both formats are available). But I'll keep the bit that mentions that
some applications are available in both formats.

The changes are minor. I should have time to do them in the next day or
two.

** Changed in: ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) => Chris Perry (clissold345)

** Changed in: ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Undecided => Medium

** Changed in: ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu)
   Status: New => In Progress

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Title:
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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

I wouldn't say anything about advantages/recommend as regards snaps. For
instance, as regards VLC I have observed two significant bugs with the
snap: 1. Translations don't work, and 2. Capturing a stream to a file
doesn't work either.


To be honest it makes little sense to me to show both alternatives in Ubuntu 
Software. And prioritizing buggy snaps isn't exactly user friendly.


Besides that I agree on your approach.

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

Hi Gunnar, I'm proposing to make minor changes to the following pages:

addremove-install.html
addremove-remove.html
disk-partitions.html

As regards installing and removing applications I'm proposing to say
that there are two package formats: Debian packages and snap packages.
In order to install or remove an application available as a snap package
the user has to log on to Ubuntu One. Snap packages have advantages over
Debian packages (I'm not planning to say what they are) so it's
recommended that where there's a choice of format the user installs the
snap package, which should be the first of the two applications listed.

The change to disk-partitions.html will be three or four words only. I'm
not planning to say what loop devices are. It's not relevant to that
page.

What do you think of this proposal?

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

Hi Will, thanks. I'll discuss some details of the changes, and when to
do them, with Gunnar.

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Will Cooke]

I'm +1 on documenting them.  It will help to reduce confusion.

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

Hi Will, thanks for your reply. So you think it's fine to document
points 1, 2, and 3 above in the 17.04 desktop help? The reason I'm
asking is that once Ubuntu 17.04 is released the 17.04 desktop help is
basically available, without corrections, to the world for the (short)
life of Ubuntu 17.04. So we don't want to document things that may be
changed soon after they're documented.

I think documenting points 1, 2, and 3 briefly should be
straightforward.

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Will Cooke]

Hi Chris, thanks for picking this up.

1.  At the moment there is no way to tell from the Software GUI app that
an application is a snap or a deb.  Snaps are prioritised, and so will
appear at the top of the list when doing a search.  But there is
currently no way of telling the packaging format from the Software
application.  If an app is listed twice then there is a high chance that
the top one will be the snap.

2.  A U1 login is required to authenticate against the Snap store.  It
would be great if we could document the steps involved in logging on to
the store via Software.  This should be straightforward.  The prompts in
Software are a simple web-view to the normal U1 sign-up/sign-in pages.

3.  We're looking at a way to hide snaps from Disks as I think it is
confusing.  But right now, as you say, it shows them.  If we can explain
that Disks also shows "loop devices such as mounted ISO images or
installed Snap applications" (maybe with an explanation of what a loop
device is) and that these can be ignored - I think that will cover it
for most users.

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

Hi Will, could you give the Docs Team some guidance about what to say
about snaps in the the 17.04 desktop help? A user of the desktop help
will typically install and remove packages using Ubuntu Software (not
the command line). So as regards the desktop help I'm only concerned
about how snaps affect the GUI. My main concern is to avoid confusing
people who read the desktop help (which includes people who follow
procedures in the desktop help). As I understand it the sources of
possible confusion are:

1. Some packages are listed twice in Ubuntu Software (one is the snap
and one is the deb package). In such a case how does the user know which
to install? What do we say in the 17.04 desktop help?

2. When users try to install a snap via Ubuntu Software they get asked
to log on to Ubuntu One. The 16.10 desktop help documents installing
packages using Ubuntu Software but doesn't document log on to Ubuntu
One. What do we say in the 17.04 desktop help?

3. The 16.10 desktop help mentions that the Disks application lists
"hard disks, CD/DVD drives, and other physical devices", - I'm reading
this as meaning everything listed is a physical device - which is not
true any more since at present Disks lists snaps too. What do we say in
the 17.04 desktop help?

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

Hi Gunnar, thanks for your reply. Yes I'll try to get some
designer/developer input on this subject.

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

I agree that there are pending snap related questions, but please note:

1. Snap related things are in a preliminary state, and changes happen
continuously.

2. We are not enough informed to distinguish between bugs and intended
behavior.

I don't think we should add things to the docs only based on what we
stumble upon, because if we would do that, there is a great chance that
we document buggy behavior, and we don't want to do that. The docs which
Peter pointed at target the developers, and I don't think they give any
guidance with respect to the issues mentioned above.

I think we need expert input as a base for considering if there is
anything about snaps which would be suitable to mention in the desktop
guide. So, Chris, if you want to ask some developer involved in the snap
development about it, it's great. But in the lack of such input I think
we should keep this bug open in this cycle.

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

Another point that may be relevant to this bug is that some applications
(eg vlc, hexchat) are listed twice in Ubuntu Software (I'm running 16.04
amd64). This will surely confuse users. Even if the user knows that one
is the snap and the other is the non snap it's not immediately obvious
which is which. (Snaps seem to be much bigger than non snaps, so the
bigger package (of two) will be the snap.)

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Peter Matulis]

For now, snap documentation is found here:

http://snapcraft.io/docs

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Chris Perry]

Hi Gunnar, thanks for your reply. We don't need to decide what (if
anything) to do until shortly before Documentation String Freeze (March
16th 2017). I suggest we stick to general principles (as regards
maintaining the documentation). Eg if one of our procedures has changed
we normally correct the page and if we see something that we think will
cause a good deal of confusion for users we normally document it. Of
course the meaning of "a good deal of confusion" is subjective.

Thanks for the link to bug #1637984. It's not assigned to anyone, so
presumably it won't be fixed any time soon? I see that, due to the Disks
application listing snaps, disk-partitions.html is no longer entirely
correct. It says "... In the left pane, you will find a list of hard
disks, CD/DVD drives, and other physical devices."

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[Bug 1658785] Re: Snap documentation in 17.04?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

I know very little about snaps, but basically it's just a package
format, and not a proper topic for the desktop user guide. (We don't
talk about the Debian package format in the guide either.)

With that said, yes, there is an inconsistency as regards Ubuntu
Software vs. terminal, but OTOH we do (almost) not mention the terminal
way anyway.

As regards shown in Disks, according to bug #1637984 it will be changed.

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