[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
** Changed in: gnome-session (Ubuntu) Importance: Medium => High ** Summary changed: - gnome session does not restore the previous session + gnome-session storing broken in intrepid -- gnome-session storing broken in intrepid https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
** Tags added: qa-jaunty-desktop -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
** Changed in: gnome-session Status: Unknown => Confirmed -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
> > It appears that Gnome cannot be trusted to release a new version without > > major regressions, and Ubuntu needs to rigorously test new versions before > > committing to them. > > But they don't. Ubuntu is committed to releasing on a rigid schedule > regardless of functionality or regressions, too. No need to put the blame on time-based releases. They are definitely preferable to Debian-style releases, which seem to never get ready. The problem is that, in the absence of guaranteed developer commitment (and you never have guaranteed developers in Open Source) and good project planning, it is impossible to make sure that the desired functionality will be ready for the next release deadline. This is an inherent risk of time-based releases: if you're unlucky, you may have very few new features for your next release. This case was particularly difficult for Ubuntu, I guess, because of the complex dependencies inside of GNOME. Running 2.24 with the 2.22 session manager is no trivial matter (as Gentoo's and Debian's efforts show) so this wouldn't have been possible in the Intrepid time frame. Therefore, the decision was between including 2.24 with the regression, and staying with at least a large portion of 2.22. As we all know, 2.24 won. As I already said elsewhere in this thread, I regret this decision. I think that, by doing this, Ubuntu sends to wrong message upstream. I'm really surprised that such a large regression was possible in GNOME without any discussion whatsoever. In GNOME, a developer needs approval from three release team members in order to change a single string after string freeze, but he can cut off half of the functionality of a core component and nobody says a word. Strange, to say the least. But this is getting off-topic. This should be discussed in some higher Ubuntu forum, but I don't know which one is appropriate. If any of you guys have a better idea of how this can be brought to a higher instance in an appropriate way, I'll be glad to know. -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
> It appears that Gnome cannot be trusted to release a new version without > major regressions, and Ubuntu needs to rigorously test new versions before > committing to them. But they don't. Ubuntu is committed to releasing on a rigid schedule regardless of functionality or regressions, too. -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
Replacing XSMP for a better way is a noble goal. However, it is ridiculous that Gnome released 2.24 with a half done version of the new protocol and no trace of the XSMP support. That simply speaks to bad management at the Gnome project. This bug is not something Ubuntu can fix at this point, but I hope that those in charge of Ubuntu learn from this problem. It appears that Gnome cannot be trusted to release a new version without major regressions, and Ubuntu needs to rigorously test new versions before committing to them. This regression was noticed in mid July, 3 months before 8.10 was released. If this had been evaluated then, Ubuntu could have avoided releasing a version with this problem (either fixed somehow, not releasing 2.24, or going the Gentoo route and holding the session manager at 2.22). -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
For a slightly different perspective on this bug, see http://np237.livejournal.com/22014.html However, it's true that the old behaviour was not great: openoffice didn't seem to react to session exits (logouts), for example. -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
** Changed in: gnome-session (Fedora) Status: Unknown => Invalid -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
** Bug watch added: Red Hat Bugzilla #465321 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=465321 ** Also affects: gnome-session (Fedora) via https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=465321 Importance: Unknown Status: Unknown -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
the bug is set as triaged because it has the required informations to be worked, the ubuntu team doesn't really have the ressources to do the GNOME work there though so you should better comment on bugzilla.gnome.org -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
I know many people who don't want to upgrade to Intrepid until this very annoying bug is resolved. Is somebody working on it?, Why it still appears triage status?. We will have to wait until Jaunty (as ever)?. Perhaps this is not the place to discuss the impotence of view this situation. If someone wants to discuss this, please comment on this post to try to find solutions: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=964730 -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
Per Sebastien's comment, I have added a couple of sentences about this to the Intrepid release notes. I trust that's OK. I think Martin Soto's assessment is spot on. It _is_ worrying that Ubuntu should (as a matter of policy) be so sanguine about this. It's also surprising that GNOME developers should have been happy to take a broadly working session manager, remove much of its session management support on the basis of some concerns about architecture and code quality, and push the result as if it were a stable point update. Would it be so hard (this is just an aside about Gnome, not about Ubuntu) to temporarily revert any changes elsewhere in Gnome that depend on the new DBUS session API, pull the "new" gnome-session back out to a branch until it works properly, and revert to the 2.22 session manager? I suppose that would feel like a backward step and make few friends among developers. Chris -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
I ended up downgrading gnome-session and gnome-panel to 2.22 as a workaround. It appears to be working OK so far. (You can't just downgrade gnome-session, because gnome-panel depends on the newer version to support essentials such as "log out".) This is what worked for me. Start by adding the Hardy main repository back to sources.list, then: $ sudo apt-get install gnome-session/hardy gnome-panel/hardy gnome- panel-data/hardy $ for x in session panel panel-data; do echo gnome-$x hold | sudo dpkg --set-selections; done I'm sure this will cause all sorts of trouble down the line, but it makes me happy for now and turns Intrepid into a genuinely pleasing system. Of course I'm missing any improvements made to gnome-panel since 2.22, but I'd be very surprised if it has anything significant enough to be worth losing this feature for. One problem is that the "quit" dialog now lacks the icons for some of its options -- I'm not sure how to restore those without losing any icons that are needed for newer Gnome features. Chris -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
The comments about the upgrade notes, those are on a wiki so anybody can do changes there or contact the people who have been working on those and who don't read this bug or suggest items to be added you can contribute to the notes rather than blocking on other busy people to write an item there -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
> With all due respect, I'm really surprised with this answer. Does this > imply that every time an upstream project delivers a new version with > regressions, Ubuntu will ship it just because it is the new upstream > version, no matter what damage it may cause? Does it imply that if > Ubuntu, for whatever reason, ships upstream code with a regression, > Ubuntu users will be directed to complain upstream as their only > resource? The decision has been made to use the new upstream version during the cycle because other desktop component started using the new gnome- session dbus api and gnome-session needed to be upgrade to upgrade those. The issue have been discussion with people working on the upstream rewrite and were on the list of things to work on for GNOME 2.24. The changes have slowed down when one of the people working on the new code changed job and had been busy with other things. Now the ubuntu team doesn't have extra ressources to put on writting this upstream code and downgrading is not really an option so the bug is basically blocker on something to step up and do the work there or in the GNOME community -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
On Tue, 2008-11-04 at 08:54 +, Sebastien Bacher wrote: > You can also note that the low priority focus for this bug upstream is > due to the fact that the feature has never been working really correctly > on many software and they don't consider that something stable and used > by the majority of users, Well, as the comments here show, some people were relying on this feature. This should be out of discussion now. > that might be wrong but should be discussed on > bugzilla.gnome.org rather than here, intrepid ships now the current > version which works mostly correctly and the way to go is to get the bug > fixed now in the intrepid updates or jaunty With all due respect, I'm really surprised with this answer. Does this imply that every time an upstream project delivers a new version with regressions, Ubuntu will ship it just because it is the new upstream version, no matter what damage it may cause? Does it imply that if Ubuntu, for whatever reason, ships upstream code with a regression, Ubuntu users will be directed to complain upstream as their only resource? I don't think this reflects Ubuntu's objectives (but please correct me if I'm wrong.) As far as I can tell, Ubuntu has generally done a very good job of selecting appropriate versions of upstream software: stable and functional enough for most people, yet current. And most users now rely on upgrades not containing serious regressions. So it can be argued that the Ubuntu Desktop Team made the wrong decision when they let this software in, because in fact, the problem was very well known to them (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-September/026588.html look under "Release Status"). Now, my intention here is not to point fingers, but to ask for reasonable damage control. As a minimum, I would expect this problem to be acknowledged by the desktop team, and clearly reported in the Release Notes, so that users can decide if they want to update. Of course, it would also be good to try to fix gnome-session at least to the point of not putting user data under risk (see my comment above in this bug report) but I don't know if anyone can commit any resources to that. Finally, regarding us complaining upstream, I'm not sure a lot of disgruntled users commenting in GNOME Bugzilla will be of help. As far as I can tell, this is not just a bug. What's going on here is that the desired functionality is simply not implemented, or very immature in the new gnome-session. So, it cannot be said that it "works mostly correctly", because, in reality, it is able to start a session properly, but far from being able to stop or restart it properly, which means it currently does 30 to 50% of the intended functionality. This being the actual state of affairs, I think we'll be very lucky if this is ready for Jaunty. Of course, GNOME should have also reported this clearly in their release notes. They should also tell us what their policy regarding regressions is, because they seem to be very picky regarding obscure ABI regressions, but don't seem to mind large, user-visible regressions that potentially put user data under risk of destruction. But this is something we should try to bring to GNOME, and certainly not through bugzilla. Sorry for the long rant, but the way this problem has been systematically understated worries me deeply, and detracts from the high quality level we are already used to expect from Ubuntu. -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
At the risk of asking a really stupid question, does anyone have an idea whether there's any likelihood of a workaround such as installing and using the Gnome 2.22 session manager with 2.24? Or using a different session manager entirely? I don't mind hacking my system to get this to work, but if anyone can warn me that I'd be wasting my time, I'd appreciate that. (I ran straight into this on the first machine I upgraded, and I don't want to upgrade any others unless I can find a fix. This regression in something I thought was one of the main functions of the desktop makes me feel extremely gloomy, but I won't vent any further here.) Chris -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
** Tags added: regression-release -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
Is this regression already in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseNotes ? I think that People must be warned about this. And I agree with ubuntu guys, If someone wants to complain, do not do it here, neither on gnome tracker, comments like 'me too' is completely useless, just put your name on CC and wait for someone to work on it or do it by yourself (use the force). I'm one of guys that used to use this feature, I don't have time to resolve it, so I will wait, but I agree that this issue must be warned, I was not warned about it. -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
You can also note that the low priority focus for this bug upstream is due to the fact that the feature has never been working really correctly on many software and they don't consider that something stable and used by the majority of users, that might be wrong but should be discussed on bugzilla.gnome.org rather than here, intrepid ships now the current version which works mostly correctly and the way to go is to get the bug fixed now in the intrepid updates or jaunty -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
Ubuntu is not writting GNOME but only contributing upstream and distributing it. The bug was known before intrepid but downgrading the version was not trivial, it was not clear that GNOME was not going to work on the issue before 2.24 and Ubuntu usually ships the current GNOME. If you are not happy about the choice you should rather complain directly to GNOME, if you want a stable Ubuntu version maybe you should consider staying on a lts version? -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
I agree that this is a serious bug, I have it since I upgraded from Hardy to Intrepid and is really annoying. It should be mentioned in the release notes. Maybe I should have delayed the upgrade process if I knew about it. -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
Sorry if you found my tone was inappropriate. I certainly didn't mean to offend any of the developers or volunteers who work to make Ubuntu such a great product. I am very grateful for all the hard work they are doing and Ubuntu is by far my favorite OS! However, I do believe it is unacceptable from a user's point of view that a release of Ubuntu should be made with this known feature broken/unimplemented when it worked perfectly well in all previous releases. Canonical has paid employees and releases a product that users pay for support for so there should be a level of quality control that would catch major problems like this before a new release is made. Even the most basic testing would have uncovered this. My frustration is not with the developers, or the people who take care of bug tracking, but with the lack of quality control at Canonical that allowed something like this to make it into a new release of Ubuntu. This is a serious regression and I really can't believe Canonical wasn't aware of it before release. -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
To maintain a respectful atmosphere, please follow the code of conduct - http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ . Bug reports are handled by humans, the majority of whom are volunteers, such comments are not appropriate there -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
This is an extremely bad and annoying feature regression. It's a show blocker and should not have been released. It must have been known about before release. It's things like this that will drive users away from Ubuntu and Linux. Absolutely unacceptable! -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 249373] Re: gnome session does not restore the previous session
** Summary changed: - gnome session does not start window manager nor restores the previous session + gnome session does not restore the previous session ** Changed in: gnome-session Bugwatch: GNOME Bug Tracker #536685 => GNOME Bug Tracker #552387 Status: New => Unknown -- gnome session does not restore the previous session https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249373 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
