[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

** Description changed:

  More and more people test devel release of Ubuntu. While we give
  adequate warnings on the risks of running ubuntu+1 releases sometimes
  it's not enough.
  
  update-manager has a concept of a "partial upgrade" which seems to be
  more trouble than it's worth. Perhaps give the user a more descriptive
  set of options, something like:
  
  a) Wait until later until the archive works itself out.
  b) Install stuff, but don't remove anything
  c) Do a partial upgrade (and perhaps a scary warning like apt does when you 
try to remove glibc. "Yes, I recognize that I could explode my machine, do it."
  
  Or perhaps something like "Something bad has happened, go use apt-get"
  or something that makes it clear that update-manager is confused.
  
  : "The selected
  updates should then install with the standard interface."
  
  : "If the
  new package conflicts with installed packages, a confirmation alert
  should appear: ‘“{title}” can’t be updated unless these items are
- removed:’, with “Cancel” and “Update & Install” buttons, but otherwise
+ removed:’, with “Cancel” and “Remove & Update” buttons, but otherwise
  identical to the equivalent alert when installing a new package."

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Title:
  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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Re: [Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Sebastian Heinlein]

oh i missed the previous discussion.


Matthew Paul Thomas  schrieb:

>So we need a confirmation alert listing the removals, then? Okay,
>specification updated.
>
>
>** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
> Assignee: Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) => (unassigned)
>
>** Also affects: aptdaemon (Ubuntu)
>   Importance: Undecided
>   Status: New
>
>** Description changed:
>
>  More and more people test devel release of Ubuntu. While we give
>  adequate warnings on the risks of running ubuntu+1 releases sometimes
>  it's not enough.
>  
>  update-manager has a concept of a "partial upgrade" which seems to be
> more trouble than it's worth. Perhaps give the user a more descriptive
>  set of options, something like:
>  
>  a) Wait until later until the archive works itself out.
>  b) Install stuff, but don't remove anything
>c) Do a partial upgrade (and perhaps a scary warning like apt does when
>you try to remove glibc. "Yes, I recognize that I could explode my
>machine, do it."
>  
> Or perhaps something like "Something bad has happened, go use apt-get"
>  or something that makes it clear that update-manager is confused.
>+ 
>+ : "The selected
>+ updates should then install with the standard interface."
>+ 
>+ : "If the
>+ new package conflicts with installed packages, a confirmation alert
>+ should appear: ‘“{title}” can’t be updated unless these items are
>+ removed:’, with “Cancel” and “Update & Install” buttons, but
>otherwise
>+ identical to the equivalent alert when installing a new package."
>
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>You received this bug notification because you are a member of
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>Developers, which is subscribed to aptdaemon in Ubuntu.
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/430197
>
>Title:
>  Disable partial upgrades during a development release
>
>To manage notifications about this bug go to:
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/430197/+subscriptions

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Title:
  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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Re: [Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Sebastian Heinlein]

The partial upgrade is required if you run the development version. the
pure dependency definitions of the packages are not enough.

we could argue if not every upgrade should be a partial upgrade.


Matthew Paul Thomas  schrieb:

>So we need a confirmation alert listing the removals, then? Okay,
>specification updated.
>
>
>** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
> Assignee: Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) => (unassigned)
>
>** Also affects: aptdaemon (Ubuntu)
>   Importance: Undecided
>   Status: New
>
>** Description changed:
>
>  More and more people test devel release of Ubuntu. While we give
>  adequate warnings on the risks of running ubuntu+1 releases sometimes
>  it's not enough.
>  
>  update-manager has a concept of a "partial upgrade" which seems to be
> more trouble than it's worth. Perhaps give the user a more descriptive
>  set of options, something like:
>  
>  a) Wait until later until the archive works itself out.
>  b) Install stuff, but don't remove anything
>c) Do a partial upgrade (and perhaps a scary warning like apt does when
>you try to remove glibc. "Yes, I recognize that I could explode my
>machine, do it."
>  
> Or perhaps something like "Something bad has happened, go use apt-get"
>  or something that makes it clear that update-manager is confused.
>+ 
>+ : "The selected
>+ updates should then install with the standard interface."
>+ 
>+ : "If the
>+ new package conflicts with installed packages, a confirmation alert
>+ should appear: ‘“{title}” can’t be updated unless these items are
>+ removed:’, with “Cancel” and “Update & Install” buttons, but
>otherwise
>+ identical to the equivalent alert when installing a new package."
>
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>You received this bug notification because you are a member of
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>Developers, which is subscribed to aptdaemon in Ubuntu.
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/430197
>
>Title:
>  Disable partial upgrades during a development release
>
>To manage notifications about this bug go to:
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/430197/+subscriptions

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Title:
  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

So we need a confirmation alert listing the removals, then? Okay,
specification updated.


** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) => (unassigned)

** Also affects: aptdaemon (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Undecided
   Status: New

** Description changed:

  More and more people test devel release of Ubuntu. While we give
  adequate warnings on the risks of running ubuntu+1 releases sometimes
  it's not enough.
  
  update-manager has a concept of a "partial upgrade" which seems to be
  more trouble than it's worth. Perhaps give the user a more descriptive
  set of options, something like:
  
  a) Wait until later until the archive works itself out.
  b) Install stuff, but don't remove anything
  c) Do a partial upgrade (and perhaps a scary warning like apt does when you 
try to remove glibc. "Yes, I recognize that I could explode my machine, do it."
  
  Or perhaps something like "Something bad has happened, go use apt-get"
  or something that makes it clear that update-manager is confused.
+ 
+ : "The selected
+ updates should then install with the standard interface."
+ 
+ : "If the
+ new package conflicts with installed packages, a confirmation alert
+ should appear: ‘“{title}” can’t be updated unless these items are
+ removed:’, with “Cancel” and “Update & Install” buttons, but otherwise
+ identical to the equivalent alert when installing a new package."

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Title:
  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Colin Watson]

I've amended the code in bzr to require only Conflicts+Replaces.  My
concern about dependency chains (e.g. new-package Conflicts+Replaces:
foo; bar Depends: foo) stands.

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Title:
  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Colin Watson]

By the way, Breaks is deliberately not there because its usual purpose
is more to force newer versions than to force removals.  The main thing
I expect not to yet be handled is cases where a chain of packages is
forced out due to a C/R/P set.  (And yes, it's possible that I shouldn't
have included Provides in this test; I was being conservative.)

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Title:
  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Colin Watson]

I doubt it's sufficient.  It's a step on the way, but I am reasonably
sure there will be a significant number of other cases not yet handled.
My understanding is that disabling partial upgrades prematurely will
have an effect roughly equivalent to forcing people to semantics along
the lines of 'apt-get upgrade', including forever forgetting about new
Recommends, so - even though the dialog is horrible - I can't advise
making this change yet.

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Title:
  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Michael Terry]

I don't think so.  That commit handles a very specific case.  The new
package has to set all three of Provides, Conflicts, and Replaces.
Breaks isn't recognized, and I imagine that there are common churn
situations in a development release where Provides is not specified.

cjwatson, as the author of that patch, can you comment on the above?

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  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

Now that Software Updater recognizes Replaces: (bug 1038113), can we
assume that all cases where you'd be prompted for a partial upgrade are
either temporary glitches, or cases where it would be unsafe to update?

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Title:
  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Michael Terry]

mpt, can you consider what would replace the partial upgrade during
development?

I presume we want to either (A) refuse to do anything and just tell the
user to use apt-get dist-upgrade or (B) add support in the "Updates
Available" pane for showing the to-be-removed packages (probably in the
style of your spec for release upgrading).

** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) => Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)

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  Disable partial upgrades during a development release

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Lars Wirzenius]

I concur: in the cases where partial upgrades are currently triggered,
having an option to continue the upgrade but without removing packages
would be a good idea. It is unclear to me what exactly a partial upgrade
does, though.

** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
   Status: New => Confirmed

** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
   Status: Confirmed => Triaged

** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Undecided => Medium

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[Michael Vogt]

Thanks for your bugreport.

This sounds like we should aim towards making them better by better
protecting the user. The partial upgrade feature was added because of
user requests, but I think its worthwhile having a much stronger
checking before stuff gets removed.

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[Bug 430197] Re: Disable partial upgrades during a development release

[arky]

** Package changed: ubuntu => update-manager (Ubuntu)

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