subject:"\[Bug 579300\] Re\: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS\* and CONFIG_SND

Hi all
   Here's the latest maverick linux kernel compiled for x86, with the OSS 
compat stuff re-enabled.

  M

** Attachment added: Maverick x86 kernel with OSS compat (re-)enabled
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/579300/+attachment/1782627/+files/linux-image-2.6.35.8%2Boss_2.6.35.8%2Boss-10.00.Custom_i386.deb

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Title:
  Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_*OSS*

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

...and the corresponding linux-headers package...

** Attachment added: Maverick kernel headers with OSS included (corresponding 
to i386 image)
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/579300/+attachment/1782632/+files/linux-headers-2.6.35.8%2Boss_2.6.35.8%2Boss-10.00.Custom_i386.deb

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2011-01-03 Thread Kim Cascone

@martinwguy: 
first of all, thanks so much for making this deb
but I experienced a couple of problems trying to use your 2.6.35.8+oss kernel:
- I get a long list of errors (can't cut and paste from the Gdebi console) when 
installing both the image and the headers from deb
- after installing the headers Gdebi lists an error which says I need to 
install the headers (?!)
- the broadcom driver doesn't work in this kernel so I'm not able to get wifi
here is the broadcom driver url:
http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php
 - I've found that 'Linux 2.6.35-24-generic' kernel works with the broadcom 
driver
- the Grub menu won't load by holding down the shift key during boot
that's all I found so far
has anyone else tried to install the 2.6.35.8+oss image and headers? 
if so, any troubles/issues?

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  Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_*OSS*

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2011-01-03 Thread Kim Cascone

'Ubuntu needs to help consolidate, not help fragment, the audio
landscape. As long as this emulation support remains enabled, we will
remain in a quagmire of applications experiencing contention for the
audio device, which increases the friction for adoption of Free
Software.'

q: does this mean that the goal of Ubuntu is to divide pro and consumer
audio into:

- enthusiasts = ALSA+Jack 
 
- cafe laptoppers = PulseAudio

?

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Kim Cascone k...@anechoicmedia.com wrote:
So good to hear you! I love Blue Cube since the late 1980s :D and
published it with a load of other Csound pieces from that period.
freaknet.org/martin/audio/csound

Bless

M

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Kim Cascone k...@anechoicmedia.com wrote:
 but I experienced a couple of problems trying to use your 2.6.35.8+oss kernel:
 - I get a long list of errors (can't cut and paste from the Gdebi console) 
 when installing both the image and the headers from deb
 - after installing the headers Gdebi lists an error which says I need to 
 install the headers (?!)

I've tried thiss on mine, an Intel Celeron x86 laptop

 - the broadcom driver doesn't work in this kernel so I'm not able to get wifi
 here is the broadcom driver url:
 http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php

Don't have an STA wifi setup, but already it sounds like you have
other problems. Possible that it is barfing at the '+' in the version
string? I can try setting off another build with a more conventional
name...

 - the Grub menu won't load by holding down the shift key during boot
 that's all I found so far

I've tried this too and it still works. However, the grub config will
have been rewritten during the kernel installation. Is it possible
that you are getting disk write or read failures?
Boot from a Live CD and run, as root, e2fsck -c /dev/sda1 (or
whichever disk is /)

 has anyone else tried to install the 2.6.35.8+oss image and headers?
 if so, any troubles/issues?

So far, no probs encountered here. Let me know about the disk integrity test.
... or re-install the packages to force rewriting of the grub files.
However, it shouldn't have touched anything to do with gdebi.

M

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  Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_*OSS*

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 2:05 AM, Martin Guy martinw...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Kim Cascone k...@anechoicmedia.com wrote:
 - I get a long list of errors (can't cut and paste from the Gdebi console) 
 when installing both the image and the headers from deb
 - after installing the headers Gdebi lists an error which says I need to 
 install the headers (?!)

 I've tried thiss on mine, an Intel Celeron x86 laptop

Sorry, I meant to write: ...and it works fine for me.


 - the broadcom driver doesn't work in this kernel so I'm not able to get wifi
 here is the broadcom driver url:
 http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php

 Don't have an STA wifi setup, but already it sounds like you have
 other problems. Possible that it is barfing at the '+' in the version
 string? I can try setting off another build with a more conventional
 name...

 - the Grub menu won't load by holding down the shift key during boot
 that's all I found so far

 I've tried this too and it still works. However, the grub config will
 have been rewritten during the kernel installation. Is it possible
 that you are getting disk write or read failures?
 Boot from a Live CD and run, as root, e2fsck -c /dev/sda1 (or
 whichever disk is /)

 has anyone else tried to install the 2.6.35.8+oss image and headers?
 if so, any troubles/issues?

 So far, no probs encountered here. Let me know about the disk integrity test.
 ... or re-install the packages to force rewriting of the grub files.
 However, it shouldn't have touched anything to do with gdebi.

    M


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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-12-31 Thread soreau

I found this link thanks to kklimonda on freenode.
http://nullkey.ath.cx/~stuff/et-sdl-sound/ Make sure to change the
SDL_AUDIODRIVER to pulse.

Cheers.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-12-31 Thread Simos Xenitellis

Regarding the compilation of the latest Alsa for Ubuntu 10.10 (or
newer), when you run

./configure

You need to add the option --with-oss=no, as in

./configure --with-oss=no

and you are set.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-12-12 Thread Christophe Van Reusel

** Summary changed:

- Пожалуйста, отключите * CONFIG_SOUND_OSS и OSS CONFIG_SND_ * *
+ Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_*OSS*

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-12-12 Thread Simos Xenitellis

When you try to compile Alsa on Ubuntu 10.10, it compiles fine. When you
try to load the new kernel modules, you get

[ 332.243113] snd: Unknown symbol unregister_sound_special (err 0)
[ 332.243379] snd: Unknown symbol register_sound_special_device (err 0)
[ 332.245467] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_info_register (err 0)
[ 332.245631] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_info_create_module_entry (err 0)
[ 332.245839] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_info_free_entry (err 0)
[ 332.246210] snd_timer: Unknown symbol __snd_printk (err 0)
[ 332.246373] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_iprintf (err 0)
[ 332.246607] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_ecards_limit (err 0)
[ 332.246834] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_oss_info_register (err 0)
[ 332.246997] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_unregister_device (err 0)
[ 332.247224] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_device_new (err 0)
[ 332.247625] snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_register_device_for_dev (err 0)

As far as I understand, this is related to the rest of the kernel being 
compiled with the Alsa OSS sound options.
I am actually fine with this decision of removing OSS.  OSS was deprecated for 
ages.

However, what changes do I need to make to the stock Alsa so that it can
be used in Ubuntu 10.10 (or newer)?

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-12-12 Thread markofealing

Regarding my problem with no audio when running Spotify under Wine since
upgrading to Ubuntu 10.10. This is fixed by upgrading Wine to 1.3.9 Beta
from the stock 1.2 which ships with Ubuntu 10.10. see my blog for more
details http://mylinuxramblings.wordpress.com/know-linux-bugs/

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-12-12 Thread Christophe Van Reusel

Simos

When you try to compile Alsa on Ubuntu 10.10, it compiles fine. When you try to 
load the new kernel modules, you get  


As far as I understand, this is related to the rest of the kernel being 
compiled with the Alsa OSS sound options.
I am actually fine with this decision of removing OSS. OSS was deprecated for 
ages.

Hello,

Sorry I don't know how to do for stock alsa. But as far as I understand
here your problem is maybe just related because oss is removed  The
10.10 kernel is NOW COMPILED WHITHOUT OSS.  And this is THE PROBLEM A
LOT OF OTHER USERS HAVE..

For Your problem just google around and i'm shure you'll find it
somewhere. It's possible that you have to use a patch somewhere before
you compile.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-12-03 Thread Rechner-Tester

As yota (ironical) wrote in comment #89:

 Fix potential issue with multi-channel ordering when seeking/pausing
if using OSS [25878] - LOOK: ACTIVE OSS DEVELOPMENT IN 2010!!! THIS IS
MADNESS! ;-)


...and clarified  in comment #102:
Moreover I'm not an audio expert but it comes to mind also that OSS is 
portable while ALSA is linux only, and so this choice damages various BSD 
flavours and fragment the opensource sound landscape.

ALSA is Linux only, while OSS - shabby as it may be compared to ALSA - is much 
more portable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_System says OSS is 
available on 11 major Unix-like operating systems). 
So maybe we don't need OSS, but we (optional) need the ALSA OSS-emulation.
  - To not break the whole *nix Sound landscape in to a Linux and a Unix part
  - To not break many applications and games
  - To not harm the end user experience
  - To not be offensive to application/game developers which want to develop 
multi platform programs 

Blacklisting sounds like a compromise for me. But how does removing with no or 
only short-term announcing fits to the ubuntu 
philosophy to be people's allegiances and relations with each other 
(https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu-name.html)? In my 
opinion it's offensive to users and developers.

Don't get me wrong: I'm sure there are reasons to drop OSS Support but please 
do it a long-term way to give developers and users the chance to prepare.
Compiling but blacklisting dosn't harm anybody or anything, but gives an option 
for an easy workaround while still bringing the plans to drop OSS support into 
focus.

regards

Rechner-Tester

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-26 Thread yota

@David:
Even if our opinions are hugely different I really thank you for your answer. 
Indeed my primary (but not only) concern was about include-but-blacklist oss 
emul, which was originally proposed by other users (Christophe Van Reusel, 
what_if) since 2010-10-22, and which still seems a viable solution for 
everyone, but lacked any kind of official reply until now.
I don't agree with your conclusion but I can see your points.

This said I hope it's fine if I continue exposing some of my thoughts
about this fix, feel free to skip the remaining part according to your
priorities.

Even if for OSS is Too late, always was, always will be, I hope that
at least the way in which this removal was handled can be reconsidered.

I don't see why ubuntu should be hostile (or simply ignore) to
applications not shipped with it, and if the devs don't care about
Quake, UT, Enemy Territory (just to pick some titles from above) does
not mean others feel the same. No one is asking to support those
applications, but just not to actively work against them. Is ubuntu
going to become a walled-market os where installing anything outside the
repo is impossible? Are phone capability planned at least? ;-)

Every piece of software can be a valuable asset and deliver value to both to 
users and to the platform itself.
Moreover I'm not an audio expert but it comes to mind also that OSS is portable 
while ALSA is linux only, and so this choice damages various BSD flavours and 
fragment the opensource sound landscape.

It's a wide accepted principle that API should get deprecated before being 
removed, this has not happened here.
This is an howto (with the purpose of using OSS on ubuntu) which is just an 
year old https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound where is said that OSS 
4.x is alive and well. If you google ubuntu oss remove no official 
discussion shows up, no warning whatsoever. The fact that this very thread 
comes up as the 5th result demonstrate how scarce are public discussion about 
the opportunity of removing OSS support (if someone spoke about this plan in a 
private masonic lodge doesn't count).

I hope no investor willing to spend money on linux software development
read this, because I'm sure that the a not deprecated API can be
dropped everyday without any warning or reason message is not so
reassuring.

Since my focus is not on audio I'll made an act of thrust and try to
accept this choice. I hope that time will show me that this makes more
sense than it seems. What I'm sure is that things could have been
handled better.

If you made this far despite the escape clause above, thank you for
your time.

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-25 Thread Claudiu Vlad

@David, I saw a problem with patched tvtime, sometimes when cpu is
overloaded with different applications and tvtime is minimized, I restore
tvtime window but its black (although sound is playing ok continuously), and
stays black until restarting the computer.
So maybe someone could check this thing. Thanks a lot.



On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 12:59 AM, David Henningsson 
579...@bugs.launchpad.net wrote:

 @yota, I'm not sure what you believe I ignored, but I don't have the
 time/priority to answer all of you thoroughly.
 So for the compile-but-blacklist option, if that was what you thought I
 ignored, here's my personal opinion:
  Maverick: doing configuration changes for the Maverick kernel is way too
 late, so no use discussing it.
  Natty: Out of the applications listed here so far that Ubuntu ships, AFAIK
 tvtime and mythtv already have fixes (gnomeradio as well? I'm not sure), so
 I'm very hopeful that we'll have a better situation for Natty for the last
 few applications still requiring the kernel-space emulation. Since I don't
 care about Quake and other stuff we don't ship, I think it's unnecessary to
 enable compile-but-blacklist.

 @Mike, I have assisted in making the fixed tvtime available so yes, I'm
 prepared to do some of the work.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-25 Thread David Henningsson

@Claudiu, this sounds unrelated to my patch (although you can never know
for certain), so please file a separate bug against tvtime (this is ok
as the patched tvtime version is already in Natty).

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-24 Thread yota

@Joe User:
Debian seems ok (I've just tested Sid with 2.6.32 kernel, and snd_pcm_oss 
module is available).

Probably the only distributions affected by this bug (or should I say
affected by this fix?) are ubuntu and derivatives, I can confirm the
issue on mint 10.

@David:
Yes, having a working mythTV in natty would be a good new indeed, having it 
working out of the box in maverick would have been even better. Please note 
that mythTV ALSA support would have been fixed even without OSS sabotage.

Also the way you carefully ignored other parts of my verbose post make me 
suspect that the message Psychotron read between the lines is correct.
Still I strongly believe that if someone, who participated to the decision that 
this* was the best way to go, care to share it would be easier for everyone to 
understand the unquestionable choice of ditching OSS.

*for the sake of clarity: let me repeat once more that with this i
refer to the decision to totally remove OSS instead of blacklist it, and
not about the opportunity to dismiss OSS or not.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-24 Thread Mike Thomas

When I first saw Bug #579300 in early September I was puzzled, because
it seemed to make no sense at all.  Things are clearer now.

(1) People who have been using applications dependent on OSS are no
longer welcome on Ubuntu and must go elsewhere.  Mr Chen was given the
thankless task of making this known.  I'm not critical of him - he
thinks he is doing the right thing.

(2) Since there is no plausible technical reason for disabling OSS, we
must look elsewhere for the explanation.  No doubt this lies in the
sociology of open-source audio development and/or in the business model
for eventual monetization of Ubuntu.  I personally am not sufficiently
interested to speculate about this.

(3) I would like to think that Debian is the answer, but the very
lengthy wait for the release of Squeeze leads me to suspect that there
are serious problems (of a different kind) with Debian too.

(4) The way that the killing of OSS has been handled in Ubuntu is ugly,
but I see it as merely part of a wider malaise, just one more nail in
the coffin of Linux multimedia.  Of course, Linux will survive in the
long term - on servers.

Mike

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-24 Thread David Henningsson

@yota, I'm not sure what you believe I ignored, but I don't have the 
time/priority to answer all of you thoroughly.
So for the compile-but-blacklist option, if that was what you thought I 
ignored, here's my personal opinion:
 Maverick: doing configuration changes for the Maverick kernel is way too late, 
so no use discussing it. 
 Natty: Out of the applications listed here so far that Ubuntu ships, AFAIK 
tvtime and mythtv already have fixes (gnomeradio as well? I'm not sure), so I'm 
very hopeful that we'll have a better situation for Natty for the last few 
applications still requiring the kernel-space emulation. Since I don't care 
about Quake and other stuff we don't ship, I think it's unnecessary to enable 
compile-but-blacklist. 

@Mike, I have assisted in making the fixed tvtime available so yes, I'm
prepared to do some of the work.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-23 Thread David Henningsson

@Ole, added bug #680386 for the tvtime update. After it has been
accepted into Natty, we can request an stable release update to
Maverick, I saw Daniel suggested that in ubuntu-devel.

@Mike, the diagram is not good enough to make that conclusion. Also,
what we're removing is one of several arrows from OSS to ALSA, as we're
removing ALSA's OSS emulation, not OSS itself.

@yota, that's good news! Seems like we should make sure 0.24 gets
packaged for Natty. The 0.24 diff is too big to do as a stable update
for Maverick, but perhaps it can be released in a PPA or through ubuntu-
backports.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-23 Thread Joe User


I also request that this bug be fixed, and the kernel expose the
/dev/mixer, /dev/dsp, and other devices..

I have 3 sound cards in my home machine, hooked up to several radio
tuners.

Signals are recorded according to cron jobs and bash scripts.

How exactly will I replace that functionality with PulseAudio?

I reiterate the opinion above that PA is garbage.  A particulary smelly,
slimy load of garbage.

Please make PA coexist with the legacy means of sound card control.

Is this change infecting other distributions?  Can I use Debian to avoid
this problem?  Advice about other distributions would be helpful.

Thank you.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread yota

Why not a separate package (let's call it ossemul-deprecate.dpkg),
shipped with the stock ubuntu, which contains just a file:

/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-ossemul.conf

with blacklist snd_pcm_oss inside? (eventually add other oss emulation
modules if opportune)

It would disable oss emulation by default,  but still if, for any reason, one 
would like to get oss emulation back, he should just uninstall the above 
package (through CLI, GUI or anything) and would be up and running in a matter 
of seconds.
This would avoid any dkms compile complication or source misalignment, and it 
would require 0 manutention effort.

Also (desiderable, but not needed) packages known *not* to work without
oss emulation could be marked conflicting with that package, such
preserving usability during with the oss dismission plan.

Wouldn't anyone be happy in this way? If not could the maintainers
please explain if (and why) such solution is not applicable?

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread markofealing

6. Spotify under Wine - works but no audio, so essentially useless due
to this major oversight.

It's a shame that they people at Spotify have gone through the trouble
to assist Linux users in using their product
http://www.spotify.com/uk/help/faq/wine/ only for the community to break
it by making an uninformed decision on dropping OSS support!

Yota's idea of a separate package sounds like a good way forward,
although not sure how non-technical Linux users are going to manage
unless the installing of this package was somehow automated i.e. loaded
when required.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread David Henningsson

I believe it is way too late to do these kind of configuration changes for 
Maverick, but if you really want to ask, here's the mailinglist: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-team
(It is probably not too late too ask for 11.04 - that said, I don't think 
they/we will enable it, but feel free to ask.)

@Mike, Ubuntu ships with such a file by default (or rather one that does
that but only if PA is running), so there is no need to add such an
/etc/asound.conf.

So, for closed source programs which we don't even ship in Ubuntu, such as 
Quake, we can't fix them, so it will be up to the closed source program vendor 
to adapt. At least if you ask me. 
All the other programs here (tvtime, gnomeradio, mythtv and and xawtv), correct 
me if I'm wrong, are somehow related to capture cards, video and/or audio. 
Could it be the same sort of problem that affects them all?
MythTV has had some kind of ALSA support, even since 2004 (source - quick 
googling:  http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/89755 ).

So could you elaborate a little on the actual problem; are you having
problem with a) audio input from the TV-card, b) audio output from the
application and/or c) controlling the volume? And if it is controlling
the volume, can you do that in alsamixer, outside the application? (I'm
not saying it's practical, just trying to understand the problem.)

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread James Andrewartha

So, for closed source programs which we don't even ship in Ubuntu, such
as Quake, we can't fix them, so it will be up to the closed source
program vendor to adapt. At least if you ask me.

How about we ask Linus, who is totally against breaking the Linux ABI,
as has been done here? You could fix them simply by reverting this
change until OSSp works.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread David Henningsson

Ok, I'll answer my own question - I remembered I had an old TV card here
somewhere, so I found it, plugged it in, installed tvtime and had a
look. PCM Audio is working out of the box. ALSA mixer can control the TV
card's input volume, but you can't control the ALSA mixer from tvtime
(trying to change the volume has no effect), so that seems to be the
issue.

Is that your issue as well?

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread Ole Laursen

David: That's exactly my problem (you can find more people with the same
by looking through the bug reports linked to in one of the comments). I
think Fedora has a patch for having tvtime use ALSA for volume control,
see the link I provided. If you can package that up, I would personally
be happy. But I think you're going to get busy. :)

In any case, OSS emulation has to land again at some point. You can't
just expect vendors to adapt - many of the things people have trouble
with aren't maintained anymore.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread Psychotron

For tvtime at least there is a working ALSA mixer patch floating around.
See also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-
driver/+bug/613809.

But generally I agree with Ole. This attitude by the Ubuntu devs is just
strange, it won't exactly create sympathy... Because of this and other
things, I really consider switching to a different distribution.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread yota

@David Henningsson:

under the release notes of MythTV 0.24 ( 
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24 )
you can read:

   Bug Fixes 
   Fix ALSA mixer to open correct device when multiple devices are present 
[24864] 
   Fix potential issue with multi-channel ordering when seeking/pausing if 
using OSS [25878] - LOOK: ACTIVE OSS DEVELOPMENT IN 2010!!! THIS IS MADNESS! 
;-)
   Fix support for snd-bt87x via ALSA [26261]  - ***THIS ONE***
   Many additional bugs fixed as part of the audio refactor/re-write mentioned 
below

My tv card is a BT878 (I believe nearly 50% of tv cards in my country have a 
BT87X). The problem is that you can't get audio recorded from the device on 
mythtv 0.23 without OSS emul.
And let me politely add that saying that MythTV has had some kind of ALSA 
support doesn't imply that it works, right?
Even if MythTV gets fixed what if I would like to play Unreal Tournament 2004? 
Probably no sound there too, and no developer to ask for a patch.

But again we are speaking about applications where a really simple solution 
exists elsewhere.
Removing OSS broke everything that was relying on it... quite simple, isn't it?
Probably we can't possibly enumerate here or be aware of every single 
application in the wild that is using it, but the number of posts in this bug 
report should state that problems about this removal are real, not limited to a 
specific application, not related to user mistakes and mostly unrecoverable 
without complex operations.

To reintroduce the feature in 11.04 doesn't cure the fact the issue is
here now, and surely there are lots of users that don't bother to write
bug reports that are experiencing that audio just doesn't work.

I can understand that changes to kernel config can't be made lightly so
before actually asking anything specific I was tryng to investigate if
it can be agreed that a separate blacklist package would be a satisfying
solution for everyone.

Still it bugs me a bit that no compelling reason to burn the bridges and
prevent an OSS de-blacklist fallback was shown...

p.s. please pardon my jokes and a bit of, I hope constructive, polemic

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread David Henningsson

@Ole, thanks for the tip. Here you are: 
https://launchpad.net/~diwic/+archive/maverick
Hope it builds fine, give it a try and tell me if it works. 

@Psychotron, to see things from the other side: This is exaggerated, but
somewhat true: http://yokozar.org/blog/content/linuxaudio.png - now
imagine trying to find where a bug is, in an audio infrastructure that
have looked somewhat like that - trying to remove an arrow every now and
then is a good thing. As I said, it's causing frustration in one end,
but it's reducing frustration in another end. And if this frustration
can be solved by porting a few apps to ALSA, it might be worth it.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread Psychotron

@David: I fully agree with this. But again: The problem is not THAT OSS
support gets deprecated, but HOW. As discussed in this thread, there are
or would have been _relatively_simple_ options to solve that more
gently, without pissing off users too much. However, the message that
comes across is: We have this plan and stick to it no matter what and
what _you_ want we don't care. That's what I meant with attitude. Even
before the release of Maverick, when the first complaints appeared, when
there would have been the chance to find a solution that serves all, the
responsible persons didn't really care!

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread Claudiu Vlad

Good job, David ! It works ok now. Could you make it to go on alsa by
default ? I had to modify the xml file to change the mixer.

You made my day !


Lets see what are they going to do with the Quake based games ...


On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 6:04 PM, David Henningsson 
579...@bugs.launchpad.net wrote:

 @Ole, thanks for the tip. Here you are:
 https://launchpad.net/~diwic/+archive/maverickhttps://launchpad.net/%7Ediwic/+archive/maverick
 Hope it builds fine, give it a try and tell me if it works.

 @Psychotron, to see things from the other side: This is exaggerated, but
 somewhat true: http://yokozar.org/blog/content/linuxaudio.png - now
 imagine trying to find where a bug is, in an audio infrastructure that
 have looked somewhat like that - trying to remove an arrow every now and
 then is a good thing. As I said, it's causing frustration in one end,
 but it's reducing frustration in another end. And if this frustration
 can be solved by porting a few apps to ALSA, it might be worth it.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread Mike Thomas

@David Henningsson:

My naive interpretation of diagram

http://yokozar.org/blog/content/linuxaudio.png

is

(1) OSS offers the most direct route (2 steps) between a userspace
program and the output hardware, and therefore would be expected, a
priori, to provide the best latency.  Audio-video applications (in
contrast to purely audio applications) demand low latency as the primary
requirement for the sound system.

(2) The complexity arises from a trend towards virtualization, which
introduces software layers not needed by most users, introduces latency
and loads the CPU.  It is ironic that removal of OSS is seen as a
solution.

More generally:  you say porting a few apps to ALSA might be worth
it.  I would have sympathy for this point of view if you were offering
to do the porting yourself.  It should be remembered that filing a bug
report against a working application is a euphemism for asking somebody
else to do some unnecessary work.

Mike

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-22 Thread Ole Laursen

@David: works for me too, when I change the MixerDevice setting to
hw:0 (or in my case hw:Audigy) as indicated in the Fedora bug (just
wasted an hour finding out that default doesn't work, googling
impenetrable shoddy ALSA documentation, no wonder it has been so long in
replacing anything, the API is total crap). Thanks for working on this!

To those who're still in the mud: try the kernel team! I've already
emailed ubuntu-devel, maybe that's how David found us! I wouldn't bother
contacting Leann Ogasawara, I've tried that twice with no reply. Maybe
she's busy breaking other apps that used to work. :)

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-21 Thread Mike Hicks

I vote for restoring ALSA's OSS emulation module to the official kernel,
and blacklisting it by default.  If there was a separate package, I
think it would inevitably get out of sync.

I am also dealing with this bug because of MythTV.  Personally, I
believe MythTV's 0.23's backend is broken in regards to audio _input_,
though the frontend supports audio _output_ just fine when it's set up
to use ALSA redirected through PulseAudio.

Like mythfrontend, it is often possible for ALSA programs to play nicely
with PulseAudio.  Most people should probably have an /etc/asound.conf
file like this:

pcm.!default {
type pulse
}
ctl.!default {
type pulse
}

An ALSA program will read that file and realize it should redirect
output through PulseAudio instead of talking to the hardware device
directly.  ALSA hardware devices (stuff in /dev/snd/*) can still be
accessed directly if the programs are set up correctly and PulseAudio is
deciding not to interfere.  For instance, I can record audio with ALSA's
arecord utility with arecord -f dat -D hw:0,0 testfile.wav.  I can
also make arecord suck data through PulseAudio with arecord -f dat -D
default testfile.wav, and it works.  Many people who have issues beyond
that simply need to unmute their sound cards -- this can be accomplished
by starting alsamixer, pressing F6, selecting the appropriate hardware
device, and changing the volume settings.

Unfortunately, some programs just don't work with ALSA, preferring to
just operate with OSS-style devices.  As I said, mythbackend seems to be
one of those programs.  I agree with yota that MythTV is a killer app
for Linux and Ubuntu.  If it doesn't work, it makes the entire platform
unattractive to many people -- including myself, and I've been using
Linux since 1996.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-20 Thread Fabien Lusseau

5. XawTV and all the tools for V4L (Video4Linux TV cards Drivers) that
are bundled with. There if a solution for this entry, and it is to add
XdTV (that is an updated version of XawTV) to the universe repository.
But it will not append ... (The bug entry for package required is here
for more than 3 years and no packages showed up)

 SOLUTION: re-enable it in the official kernel, blacklist its modules
by default.

Yeah that's a good and simple idea, a dkms module or a module package
can be really easier to end user.

And why not just re-enable it by default ? because this module can cause
troubles only if we install some OSS only apps and we want to use it
at the same time of another sound application ... And OSS only apps are
very specific ... As I see, the only persons that are really touch be
this problem is Linux gamers and TV card Users

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-19 Thread David Henningsson

Folks, I haven't been closely been involved with the decision to remove
OSS from the kernel, and I see that it causes frustration to have
functionality removed, but I know that it wouldn't have been done if it
haven't helped against frustration at some other end. I believe Daniel T
Chen has trying to explain some of that higher up in the thread here.

So for options for people bitten by this problem, here are the options
as I see it:

1) Help out by moving programs and hardware from OSS to ALSA. File bugs.
Retest PulseAudio, file bugs (with e g ubuntu-bug audio) if things do
not work as expected, help out with testing. This is the recommended and
most constructive approach.

2) Stay with Lucid, an LTS release which will be supported for three
years on the desktop. You can enable lucid-backports if you want later
versions of some programs.

3) Build your own kernel. Note that it won't get updated via -security
or -updates if you do that.

I also note that this change was done in May, and the first response
comment in August - three months later! This means to me, that this
issue either affect relatively few people, or that we lack testers of
the development release.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-19 Thread Psychotron

I can't see any explanation in this thread on why this has to be done.
Perhaps you can explain that to us ignorant folks. That programs should
be moved to a newer API is not per se a bad thing, but rather the way
this is done here. And really, I don't see the problem of providing the
ALSA OSS emulation(!!) layer. All new apps can simply ignore it. So
please where is the problem? And if older apps don't support modern
audio features of say PA, so what? Better than not working at all in any
case.

As for your suggested options:
1) How about _first_ doing this and then remove functionality. Further I doubt 
that this will ever happen, as some often used apps aren't really maintained 
anymore e.g. tvtime.
2) Unfortunately I for one have to use Maverick kernel, as with Lucid the 
radeon support is completely broken. And now that I did the update I surely 
have better things to do than downgrading to Lucid. And also I doubt that with 
the next LTS there is a proper replacement for say tvtime.
3) This is a pain and no solution! Hours of compiling for every security fix...

And when did Maverick hit the masses? Right, in Oktober! So you want to
make users hit by this bug responsible for not using very early test
releases?? Come on!

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-19 Thread David Henningsson

Ubuntu is depending on volunteers to do very, very much - very large
parts of planning, development, bug fixing, testing, and documentation
are made by volunteers, and would fall flat without them.

Also, this removal was being done at a time were it would be the least
painful, in the beginning of a development cycle (so that there would be
plenty of time of test and sort out the remaining issues), and right
after a LTS release, so that people who need OSS still will have a
functional Ubuntu version for three more years.

As for building your own kernel, we have some guides out there (under
wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev ) and I'm waiting for another guide that is
hopefully going to be even better. My hope is that it will be possible
to auto-build custom kernels in PPAs, so that an initial setup is all
you need - but I don't know for sure.

So I'm not an expert on what the kernel OSS emulation is doing bad; but
I'm assuming that it won't work with bluetooth or firewire audio, and
that it grabs exclusive access (i e, it won't mix with other sources,
but whoever grabs it first wins). There is also the slim-and-trim
argument - Ubuntu must fit on a CD, have fast startup times, less
security holes, etc (although again, I don't know if the extra space and
time is negligible).

So can I get a summary of what applications that actually need this
emulation? Can we port them to ALSA, or at least fix them so they work
with the userspace emulation (aoss / padsp)? Perhaps your favourite app
can work better than ever in Ubuntu 11.04?

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-19 Thread James Andrewartha

David: If you read the bug log, you'll see that ALSA OSS emulation was
disabled because the plan was to have OSSp working for Maverick. This
didn't happen, but ALSA OSS emulation remains disabled. OSSp is probably
the correct solution for the future, but it's not here yet, so can we
just have ALSA OSS emulation turned back on for Maverick?

Applications that need this emulation: Games using the quake3 engine,
which are closed source and can't be changed.

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

1. tvtime
2. gnomeradio


everybody, feel free to continue my list



On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 5:44 PM, David Henningsson 
579...@bugs.launchpad.net wrote:


 So can I get a summary of what applications that actually need this
 emulation? Can we port them to ALSA, or at least fix them so they work
 with the userspace emulation (aoss / padsp)? Perhaps your favourite app
 can work better than ever in Ubuntu 11.04?

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

3. Applications that need this emulation: Games using the quake3 engine,
which are closed source and can't be changed. (thanks to James Andrewartha)



On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:23 PM, James Andrewartha tr...@ucc.asn.au wrote:

 David: If you read the bug log, you'll see that ALSA OSS emulation was
 disabled because the plan was to have OSSp working for Maverick. This
 didn't happen, but ALSA OSS emulation remains disabled. OSSp is probably
 the correct solution for the future, but it's not here yet, so can we
 just have ALSA OSS emulation turned back on for Maverick?

 Applications that need this emulation: Games using the quake3 engine,
 which are closed source and can't be changed.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-19 Thread Psychotron

So OSS doesn't support some advanced features? Sure. But why does that
mean OSS support needs to be broken? If users of some OSS-only app want
these features, they can bug the authors to add support for PA or
whatever.

As for grabbing devices exclusively, I'm under the impression that it's
possible for a long time to allow even OSS apps to access devices in
parallel with ALSA. At least I haven't had problems with that for years
now.

Space for these three modules is 124K on my system

And really: in this particular case I don't understand the necessity of
the removal. It's not that OSS is a system foundation and it's just too
limited for the future. It's just an ADDON. You can safely ignore it if
your apps all use ALSA. If you want to get it out of the main kernel,
then at least provide it as a separate package, e.g. using DKMS.

Besides the fact, that aoss (and possibly padsp) does not really work,
it's also much less comfortable. OSS emulation modules just work, with
aoss you have to find out about it first. Then find out what and how to
change. Probably nothing the average user is able to.

And sure there are guides to compile a kernel. Still it's not exactly a
5min job. And when will this advanced kernel build system see the light
of day? Nobody knows? That's not a great base for an alternative
solution. And again: it takes hours! On every update! I don't want to
imagine how log it takes on a netbook... And what for? For three tiny
modules!

Also in my experience with Ubuntu it's unfortunately only partly
possible to stick with an LTS release. There is just always a breakage
wich is only fixed in the next release. In my example with Lucid the
broken radeon driver. Also sometimes you just need a newer version of
some software. E.g. the latest KDE is only supported for the last two
Ubuntu releases or so. So you want to tell users: Sorry you can't
upgrade to a newer desktop shell, if you want to keep the mixer of you
TV app working?

So telling users to stick with LTS is only partly an option. Let alone
that I don't have much faith everything will be fixed with say the next
LTS.

The solution is pretty simple: readd the modules in some way or another!
It hurts nobody (unless proved otherwise) and every other solution is
just inferior.

PS: In my case the app is tvtime and what doesn't work is the mixer
(i.e. adjusting volume).

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

SOLUTION: provide a PPA containing a custom OSS enabled kernel

How about that ?


On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Psychotron
579...@bugs.launchpad.netwrote:

 So OSS doesn't support some advanced features? Sure. But why does that
 mean OSS support needs to be broken? If users of some OSS-only app want
 these features, they can bug the authors to add support for PA or
 whatever.

 As for grabbing devices exclusively, I'm under the impression that it's
 possible for a long time to allow even OSS apps to access devices in
 parallel with ALSA. At least I haven't had problems with that for years
 now.

 Space for these three modules is 124K on my system

 And really: in this particular case I don't understand the necessity of
 the removal. It's not that OSS is a system foundation and it's just too
 limited for the future. It's just an ADDON. You can safely ignore it if
 your apps all use ALSA. If you want to get it out of the main kernel,
 then at least provide it as a separate package, e.g. using DKMS.

 Besides the fact, that aoss (and possibly padsp) does not really work,
 it's also much less comfortable. OSS emulation modules just work, with
 aoss you have to find out about it first. Then find out what and how to
 change. Probably nothing the average user is able to.

 And sure there are guides to compile a kernel. Still it's not exactly a
 5min job. And when will this advanced kernel build system see the light
 of day? Nobody knows? That's not a great base for an alternative
 solution. And again: it takes hours! On every update! I don't want to
 imagine how log it takes on a netbook... And what for? For three tiny
 modules!

 Also in my experience with Ubuntu it's unfortunately only partly
 possible to stick with an LTS release. There is just always a breakage
 wich is only fixed in the next release. In my example with Lucid the
 broken radeon driver. Also sometimes you just need a newer version of
 some software. E.g. the latest KDE is only supported for the last two
 Ubuntu releases or so. So you want to tell users: Sorry you can't
 upgrade to a newer desktop shell, if you want to keep the mixer of you
 TV app working?

 So telling users to stick with LTS is only partly an option. Let alone
 that I don't have much faith everything will be fixed with say the next
 LTS.

 The solution is pretty simple: readd the modules in some way or another!
 It hurts nobody (unless proved otherwise) and every other solution is
 just inferior.

 PS: In my case the app is tvtime and what doesn't work is the mixer
 (i.e. adjusting volume).

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-19 Thread Psychotron

 SOLUTION: provide a PPA containing a custom OSS enabled kernel

But then this kernel needs to be supplied with all the updates and
fixes. I'd say a separate alsa-oss-modules package would be more
realistic.

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

I personally  dont care about  updates, I have a family desktop, who the
hell can exploit it ?




On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Psychotron 579...@bugs.launchpad.netwrote:

  SOLUTION: provide a PPA containing a custom OSS enabled kernel

 But then this kernel needs to be supplied with all the updates and
 fixes. I'd say a separate alsa-oss-modules package would be more
 realistic.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-19 Thread yota

Application affected:

4. MythTV (with analogue tv cards)

The above is a killer application, not only meaning that, quoting
wikipedia,  it is a computer program that is so necessary or desirable
that it proves the core value of some larger technology, but also
meaning that made my wife a killer when it stopped working.

Maybe the alsa support for ALSA is present in v 0.24 as per
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24, I've not had the
opportunity of testing it since v 0.23 is shipped with maverick. We
could file bugs for every not working application but that's not the
point since they are not, strictly speaking, broken!

The points are that:
1) ALSA OSS emulation removal caused many documented show-stopper issues
2) ALSA OSS emulation may be obsolete, but still is not deprecated in the kernel
3) ALSA OSS emulation removal can eventually bring arguable advantages 
(mutiopen?), which are yet to be proved, in an hypothetic future
4) ALSA OSS emulation could simply had been disabled by default, still no 
reason to ditch it so suddenly had been shown
5) ALSA OSS emulation seems to be still present in other mainstream distro

Disabling it by default would have been more than enough to strongly promote 
evolution, this harsh removal is overkill.
It just makes AboveAverage Joe downgrade or devolve his weekend spare time to 
study custom kernel compiling for dummies.
Average Joe probably would end up saying ubuntu just doesn't work.

One thing is encouraging progress, another is deliberately sabotage OSS
to make people complain to application developers to switch to ALSA
(applicable only where applications are open and mantained).

SOLUTION: re-enable it in the official kernel, blacklist its modules by
default.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-17 Thread Mark Faine

This broke mythtv 0.24 and tvtime for me ever since I upgraded to
maverick.  I don't mind modernizing but you simply don't remove
functionality until you have something to replace it with.  I have gone
back to the 32 kernel for now since it is the last known working kernel.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-12 Thread Psychotron

Sorry Mr. Chen, but this is a totally ridiculous decision! Who is hurt
by keeping these little modules?! Nobody! Does it break anything?! I
wouldn't know what. Sorry if this is not very constructive, but this
kind of decisions just make me angry. You just break it for a lot of
people, without providing a proper alternative. And what for?!?

I just rebuilt my kernel and now alsa is somehow broken...yea, I have
too much time at my hands to investigate such nonsense.

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-11 Thread Claudiu Vlad

I am not asking for changing kernel options, its not my job, but as an old
user, I really want this to be fixed some way or another.


Cheers,



On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 7:02 AM, pipegeek 579...@bugs.launchpad.net wrote:

 Yet another person who would really like to see this put back in, if
 only as modules that aren't loaded by default.  padsp doesn't work for
 everything.  Particularly it doesn't work for /dev/sequencer, so
 anything that is attempting to speak MIDI to the sound card via OSS is
 now left stranded.  This change also broke the oss-compat package in
 universe.  Would really, really like to see this change reverted.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-11 Thread markofealing

Anyone hoping to use Spotify under wine can think again, totally hosed
unless you are a Spotify Premium user using the beta Linux client :-((.
Otherwise Spotify recommend you use Wine. Little do they know is no
longer works!

Many thanks to all the developers who could not care less about making
sure existing applications will still work after they make good idea
changes. Shame on you all.

Total Fail!

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-10 Thread pipegeek

Yet another person who would really like to see this put back in, if
only as modules that aren't loaded by default.  padsp doesn't work for
everything.  Particularly it doesn't work for /dev/sequencer, so
anything that is attempting to speak MIDI to the sound card via OSS is
now left stranded.  This change also broke the oss-compat package in
universe.  Would really, really like to see this change reverted.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-05 Thread yota

There's something weird going on here: is not true that fedora did the same!
You can find in attachment the kernel config from FC14, which shows that OSS 
emulation in ALSA was not removed at all from the kernel in FC14.

Here is a side-by-side difference with ubuntu (limited to the relevant part):
Fedora config   Ubuntu config
CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE=y # CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE is not set
CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE_PRECLAIM=y
CONFIG_SND=mCONFIG_SND=m
CONFIG_SND_TIMER=m  CONFIG_SND_TIMER=m
CONFIG_SND_PCM=mCONFIG_SND_PCM=m
CONFIG_SND_HWDEP=m  CONFIG_SND_HWDEP=m
CONFIG_SND_RAWMIDI=mCONFIG_SND_RAWMIDI=m
CONFIG_SND_JACK=y   CONFIG_SND_JACK=y
CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER=m  CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER=m
CONFIG_SND_SEQ_DUMMY=m  CONFIG_SND_SEQ_DUMMY=m
CONFIG_SND_OSSEMUL=y|# CONFIG_SND_MIXER_OSS is not set
CONFIG_SND_MIXER_OSS=m  |# CONFIG_SND_PCM_OSS is not set
CONFIG_SND_PCM_OSS=m|# CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER_OSS is not set
CONFIG_SND_PCM_OSS_PLUGINS=y
CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER_OSS=y  


Moreover I agree with Fabien Lusseau: where ALSA OSS emulation has been so 
strongly deprecated is yet to be shown (where all the posts demonstrate on the 
opposite that is still useful in many use-cases).

To cleanup the audio landscape wouldn't it be enough to prevent it from loading 
by default? At least who wanted it back could just re-enable it...
And why the rush? Lucid had it enabled and maverick got mutilated, wouldn't it 
be wiser to project a smoother transition with some progressive dismiss steps?

Where it's a fact that the sudden OSS emulation removal has caused
immediate problems to many users and applications, the long-term
advantages are arguable and subject to personal evaluation.

Please reconsider the choice and reintegrate oss emulation in the
kernel, maybe blacklist it's modules by default it if you are so
strongly persuaded that it should be abandoned as soon as possible.

** Attachment added: Fedora Core 14 kernel config
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/579300/+attachment/1723917/+files/config-2.6.35.6-50.fc14.i686

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-05 Thread Christophe Van Reusel

Hello,

Nice move Yota,

I do not have fedora so i could not see that. But the longer the more it
seems to be a very big issue in ubuntu. perhaps fedora just blacklisted
the oss emu by default settings but is it just easy to reenable it by
removing them from blacklist or adding them to modprobe modules to load
at boot time.

That's also the way it should be in ubuntu and is the linux philisophy.
Also it's the reason why basic linux kernels still have oss into it. And
on the contrary is NOT deprecated.

In despite off the extreme heavy job Mister T-Chen is performing. He
forget's that linux and ubuntu is for a tremendous amount off hardware .
From basic chipset up to Mb manyfactor Device manifiactor's and so on.
He just test on his own version and think it should work for everybody
which is not the case. Also with only his needed software.

But having NO reaction off him excpet NO !

Not any reasonable alternatifs. A forcing to an uncomplete pulse ???

I hope the ubuntu kernel team will decide to enable it back again. So m

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-05 Thread Christophe Van Reusel

Sorry I continue here.

So many users will be able again to use ubuntu like it should be.

greetings christophe

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-04 Thread xpatch

+sigh+ Please put it back in. You don't have to enable the module by default.
I need to use the dtmfdial package right now to sort out a bug in a system. 
I just updated and now I can't use the package because there is no /dev/dsp

Going to use virtualbox, install 10.04 get the dtmfdial package and go
that way... but what a pain.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-02 Thread VPablo

For those who gnomeradio doesn't work with ALSA, try this.
I have make gnomeradio work with ALSA. On this page:
http://www.taringa.net/posts/linux/5777157/Sintonizadora-K-World-PCI-TV-PVR-TV-7134SE-en-Linux.html
there is a solution. Make this script, as /usr/local/bin/audioradio2.sh p.e.:
---
#!/bin/sh
sox -r 32000 -t alsa hw:2,0 -t alsa hw:0,0 
mpid=$!
gnomeradio
kill $mpid 
---
Changing hw:2,0 for your TV Card (1,0; 3,0; etc...) and for me works.

I have upgraded to a 2.6.35-23-generic not customized and without
/dev/dsp and gnomeradio works perfectly.

Please, test it and thanks to Christophe Van Reusel for compiling a
customized kernel.

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-02 Thread Claudiu Vlad

tvtime and gnomeradio are working - this means I have sound, but the mixer
volume is disabled, so I have to install gnome-alsa-mixer, which is BAD.


Lets hope somebody will fix tvtiem and gnomeradio to work with pulseaudio
instead alsa



On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:56 PM, VPablo villu...@gmail.com wrote:

 For those who gnomeradio doesn't work with ALSA, try this.
 I have make gnomeradio work with ALSA. On this page:

 http://www.taringa.net/posts/linux/5777157/Sintonizadora-K-World-PCI-TV-PVR-TV-7134SE-en-Linux.html
 there is a solution. Make this script, as /usr/local/bin/audioradio2.sh
 p.e.:
 ---
 #!/bin/sh
 sox -r 32000 -t alsa hw:2,0 -t alsa hw:0,0 
 mpid=$!
 gnomeradio
 kill $mpid
 ---
 Changing hw:2,0 for your TV Card (1,0; 3,0; etc...) and for me works.

 I have upgraded to a 2.6.35-23-generic not customized and without
 /dev/dsp and gnomeradio works perfectly.

 Please, test it and thanks to Christophe Van Reusel for compiling a
 customized kernel.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-02 Thread Christophe Van Reusel

Hello pablo,

for gnome radio it's maybe a solution. But even then it's to processor
intensif. For tv card itself it's a pain in the ass since there is a
delay between image and sound. Off course i do not route out the sound
to /dev/dsp in tv time. the only control we used was the /dev/mixer emu
to untoggle the specified alsa mixer channel and change volume. My tv
time card is connected to CD in from motherboard. Some connect it to
line in by absence from other inputs. Then we don't have delay between
image and sound and are not using (spoiling) valuable processor time.
Sound can also be untoggled using alsa mixer. Or even better gnome-
alsamixer.

Another option off course is the use of loopback into pulse, But since
pulse does not support my sound card how it should be and there is no
way to solve that. I do it straight trough alsa. On top of it you can't
mixed several loopback inputs togheter with pulse Yes Pulse is very very
far from complete.

Note: most new software use direct input into alsa . Tvtime and gnome
radio are not under developpemnt anymore. For tv time there is a patch
made to use direct hw:0:Line or CD instead of passing trough /dev/mixer
. But I still did not found this patched version compiled for amd64 or
the latest modified source to compile this myself. It seems to be called
tvtime version 1.0.2-8sr... in ubuntu there is still version 1.0.2-6.

gr christophe

here just attached copy of pulse setup for loopback located into
/etc/pulse

note the load-module module-loopback at the end of the file.

** Attachment added: default.pa

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/579300/+attachment/1720671/+files/default.pa

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

Any plans to add OSSp in 11.04 ? And/Or a dkms package that will be able
to add and compile the OSS ALSA emulation instead of recompiling the all
kernel ?

Or OSSp by default and the dkms package for those who have some troubles
whit OSSp ?

This can be a good progress and everybody should be API with that ?

Also we can install OSSp or the DKMs package only if an application
depends on that ! I think that should be a good idea and a Huge progress
that not break anything !

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Re: [Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-01 Thread Claudiu Vlad

:)
The everybody should be API with that phrase was supposed to be a joke,
right ?

Jokes are welcome, anyway, as long as everybody is NOT APY with the sound
system breaking brought by Maverick

So, again, could we please patch tvtime to work with pulseaudio ? Daniel
Chen said earlier there is such a patched version, but I couldnt find it.



On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Fabien Lusseau
fabien26ubu...@gmail.comwrote:

 Any plans to add OSSp in 11.04 ? And/Or a dkms package that will be able
 to add and compile the OSS ALSA emulation instead of recompiling the all
 kernel ?

 Or OSSp by default and the dkms package for those who have some troubles
 whit OSSp ?

 This can be a good progress and everybody should be API with that ?

 Also we can install OSSp or the DKMs package only if an application
 depends on that ! I think that should be a good idea and a Huge progress
 that not break anything !

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

Yeah that's a joke ... I think everybody knew it ! But what I said is
really what I think. There can be less intrusive solution to
progressively remove OSS. And not use brutal force against us users that
just want our system just working !

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-01 Thread Ole Laursen

I did a bit of digging. In Fedora, it appears they have a patch to add
ALSA support to tvtime, it seems like it enables one to use the ALSA
mixer interface instead of the OSS interface (discussion at bottom):
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=498167

Note that tvtime's use of OSS doesn't fall into the categori of hogging
the soundcard, it's merely using the mixer interface to control volume.

** Bug watch added: Red Hat Bugzilla #498167
   https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=498167

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-01 Thread Steve Church

I get that OSS has been deprecated for quite some time.  I get that
deprecated features eventually disappear.  I get that the only way
developers will stop developing for OSS is for OSS no longer to exist;
and likewise for hardware manufacturers' depending on OSS.

As an end user, I want my stuff to work, though.  It's not my
responsibility to sacrifice for the greater good.  I'm not interested in
policing the confusion in the spaghetti code of audio in Linux.  I don't
care about enforcing proper procedures in shaping the development of
multimedia applications.  That's not my role.

It's an intolerable situation.  Mr. Chen has his motivations; I have
mine.  Unfortunately, the two are mutually exclusive.

So, like Christophe Van Reusel before me, I'm pursuing the only recourse
left available.  I'm henceforth giving up on Canonical's kernels.  I
compiled my own kernel with OSS modules re-enabled, and I will refuse
upgrades until I no longer have analog cable television service.

For what it's worth, at first I tried Mr. Van Reusel's packaged kernel
and headers.  For some reason on my machine, dkms failed to compile the
NVidia kernel stuff when I installed them.  So I made my own.  See
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1607546 for details.  I have my
.config attached there if anyone wants it.

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

OSS is NOT depreciated ! It an absurdity ! OSS3 is depreciated ! OSS4 is
maintained and ALSA OSS emulation is not depreciated (no mention of that
in the kernel documentation).

OSS is still used in a lot of Unix like, FreeBSD for exemple, and OSS
API emulation is one of the most important part of the interoperability
inside free software desktop solutions !

I know that pulseaudio can be an common intermediate between every sound
API, but pulseaudio is not perfectly compatible with OSS API and it
seems that OSS in pulseaudio is depreciated too ! We are in a dead end !

Like I said before, we have to work on OSSp integration or ALSA OSS
emulation in a separate package, and before that append, we NEED alsa
oss in the main kernel because it is the only way now to get it working
...

It don't know how to say that in english clearly but you are making
things in disorder ... Or I don't know how to say that, but you need the
replacement before dropping a good functioning (but not perfect) feature
...

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

2010-11-01 Thread Steve Church

@Fabien Lusseau

See attached screenshot.

In this circumstance, deprecated is not my opinion.  It is a
development state.  I should have specified OSS, such as is included
with the Linux kernel, is deprecated.  Mea culpa.

** Attachment added: deprecated.png
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/579300/+attachment/1719529/+files/deprecated.png

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS

No ! What you view here is OSS 3 ! Not the Alsa OSS emulation ! ALSA OSS
is a part of ALSA not a part of OSS !

I said OSS3, OSS3 is OSS, such as is included with the Linux kernel.
And yes I agree, he is depreciated ! Plain and simple !

I totally agree with you ! And OSS 3 has never been in Ubuntu !

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[Bug 579300] Re: Please disable CONFIG_SOUND_OSS* and CONFIG_SND_OSS