[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2019-05-02 Thread Michael Kavanagh
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 593971 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/593971

** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 593971
   Rich Text in EEschema

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2016-04-30 Thread Eldar Khayrullin
** Tags removed: oneiric
** Tags added: fonts

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2015-12-19 Thread Simon Wells
** Changed in: kicad
   Importance: Undecided => Wishlist

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Re: [Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-13 Thread Lorenzo Marcantonio
On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 04:28:58AM -, Daniel Santos wrote:
 From a cursory examination of the Gerber spec (which I've never worked
 with before). It looks like the appropriate way to render an arbitrary
 font from it's vector representation is to render each non-contiguous
 shape of each glyph as a single contour (enable region mode with G36,
 draw the contour and then end the region mode with G37).  Now this is
 tricky for many reasons.

The recommended way to render arbitrary images/fonts in gerber (and
AFAIK the approach used by every CAD supporting truetype fonts in
gerber) is using horizontal rasters. Usually the raster pitch is wide as
the aperture or maybe half of it for better edge quality; also the
raster approach actually follows the mechanics of the silkscreen process
(which *is* done on a raster of wires...)

I did a proof-of-concept demo some year ago (about when we switched from
the 'squared' font) but the idea wasn't pursued for lack of interest
(and display performance reasons, too).

Another reason is that the plotting infrastructure need to implement
text in postscript/PDF too and that is even more tricky than gerber.

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Re: [Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-13 Thread Dick Hollenbeck
http://timeguy.com/cradek/truetype

Is this anything?
 On Oct 13, 2013 2:25 AM, Lorenzo Marcantonio 668...@bugs.launchpad.net
wrote:

 On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 04:28:58AM -, Daniel Santos wrote:
  From a cursory examination of the Gerber spec (which I've never worked
  with before). It looks like the appropriate way to render an arbitrary
  font from it's vector representation is to render each non-contiguous
  shape of each glyph as a single contour (enable region mode with G36,
  draw the contour and then end the region mode with G37).  Now this is
  tricky for many reasons.

 The recommended way to render arbitrary images/fonts in gerber (and
 AFAIK the approach used by every CAD supporting truetype fonts in
 gerber) is using horizontal rasters. Usually the raster pitch is wide as
 the aperture or maybe half of it for better edge quality; also the
 raster approach actually follows the mechanics of the silkscreen process
 (which *is* done on a raster of wires...)

 I did a proof-of-concept demo some year ago (about when we switched from
 the 'squared' font) but the idea wasn't pursued for lack of interest
 (and display performance reasons, too).

 Another reason is that the plotting infrastructure need to implement
 text in postscript/PDF too and that is even more tricky than gerber.

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Re: [Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-13 Thread Lorenzo Marcantonio
On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 08:49:40AM -, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:
 http://timeguy.com/cradek/truetype
 
 Is this anything?

Extracting the outlines from a TT is not difficult, actually... freetype
can give it to you ready to plot (FT_Outline_Decompose), you only have
to mess a little with quadric/cubic curves. The problem is that the
result at the small sizes used for silks and stuff is... well,
disappointing. That changes of course if you have access to photo-silk
instead of true silkscreening...

Also the cut-in feature for gerber fill seems a little tricky to use.
The problem outlined in pages 50-51 of the specs make me think a lot of
experimentation and care is needed.

I think it could be done (good quality results are not guaranteed,
anyway...). There *is* a reason for the major cad manufacturer to
recommend stroke fonts in place of outline ones.

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Re: [Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-13 Thread Wayne Stambaugh
On 10/13/2013 04:49 AM, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:
 http://timeguy.com/cradek/truetype
 
 Is this anything?
  On Oct 13, 2013 2:25 AM, Lorenzo Marcantonio 668...@bugs.launchpad.net
 wrote:
 
 On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 04:28:58AM -, Daniel Santos wrote:
 From a cursory examination of the Gerber spec (which I've never worked
 with before). It looks like the appropriate way to render an arbitrary
 font from it's vector representation is to render each non-contiguous
 shape of each glyph as a single contour (enable region mode with G36,
 draw the contour and then end the region mode with G37).  Now this is
 tricky for many reasons.

This is the hard part and what I was eluding to in the previous
conversation.  I've never used the FreeType library but looking at the
API it looks like it provides a way to convert any font type it supports
to strokes as Lorenzo pointed out.  The difficult part is accurately
converting this output into the gerber or any other file format for that
matter.  Obviously it can be done.  Other applications do it all the
time.  However, this will require a lot of testing and visual comparison
which is always fraught errors.  Over the years I've seen some very
expensive board layout software do a very poor job of rendering fonts to
gerbers.  If we want to provide this for our users, I want make sure we
do it properly.  At least the current line drawn fonts are accurate
which IMHO is more important when manufacturing PCBs than inaccurate
fancy TT fonts.


 The recommended way to render arbitrary images/fonts in gerber (and
 AFAIK the approach used by every CAD supporting truetype fonts in
 gerber) is using horizontal rasters. Usually the raster pitch is wide as
 the aperture or maybe half of it for better edge quality; also the
 raster approach actually follows the mechanics of the silkscreen process
 (which *is* done on a raster of wires...)

 I did a proof-of-concept demo some year ago (about when we switched from
 the 'squared' font) but the idea wasn't pursued for lack of interest
 (and display performance reasons, too).

Maybe with the forthcoming OpenGL rendering, the performance issues will
be less of an issue.  Of course, this means you would have to modify
both the GAL and the wxDC renderer to support FreeType fonts until all
of the KiCad rendering has been ported over to the OpenGL GAL.


 Another reason is that the plotting infrastructure need to implement
 text in postscript/PDF too and that is even more tricky than gerber.

Yes.  All of the output formats that KiCad supports would have to be
modified to support the new fonts as well.  Now we have a more accurate
view of how large the task really is and there are probably some other
parts of KiCad this will effect (file formats?) that we haven't even
considered.  I am all for high quality fonts for KiCad but I am opposed
to a partial implementation for obvious reasons.  I am not trying to
discourage anyone and I think it is a great idea.  I am only trying to
make sure anyone who takes on this task understands what's involved.


 --
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   Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-13 Thread Daniel Santos
 I am all for high quality fonts for KiCad but I am opposed
 to a partial implementation for obvious reasons.

It may be worthwhile to consider partial implementation as an explicitly
and loudly marked EXPERIMENTAL feature. Such a feature would typically
have the text (EXPERIMENTAL) next to it in whatever menu or dialog box
where it is enabled and when enabled, a pop-up appears explaining to the
user what they are getting into when they enable it.

I'm reccomending this because projects following an iterative delivery
model are historically more successful those following the waterfall
model (i.e., everything at once).  Further, since we are open source,
these experimental features can be enabled/disabled via the
configure/cmake script. :)

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-13 Thread Daniel Santos
Fritzing project also staring at this quandary :
https://code.google.com/p/fritzing/issues/detail?id=1568

Also, of possible interest is this dxf2gbr utility:
http://www.artwork.com/acad/engine/index.htm

 From a cursory examination of the Gerber spec (which I've never worked
 with before). It looks like the appropriate way to render an arbitrary
 font from it's vector representation is to render each non-contiguous
 shape of each glyph as a single contour (enable region mode with G36,
 draw the contour and then end the region mode with G37).  Now this is
 tricky for many reasons. 

 The recommended way to render arbitrary images/fonts in gerber (and
 AFAIK the approach used by every CAD supporting truetype fonts in
 gerber) is using horizontal rasters. Usually the raster pitch is wide as
 the aperture or maybe half of it for better edge quality; also the
 raster approach actually follows the mechanics of the silkscreen process
 (which *is* done on a raster of wires...)

Hmm, while I'm not certain, we may be talking about the same thing, but
from a different standpoint.  I don't see any reference in the gerber
spec to the word raster. If you are talking about drawing straight
lines with an apeture to to rasterize your own image, I'm wondering if
this falls into the catagory of stroke painting which unamco is
claiming to be harmful (see the PDF named Gerber File Format:
Painting Considered Harmful on the page
http://www.ucamco.com/downloads.aspx).

However, it was my understanding that a modern photoplotter would take
your contour regions and rasterize them to produce the final output,
leaving you to just draw what you need in as simple of terms as possible
and let the plotter rasterize it.  Please correct me if I'm
misunderstanding something here.

** Bug watch added: code.google.com/p/fritzing/issues #1568
   https://code.google.com/p/fritzing/issues/detail?id=1568

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Re: [Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-13 Thread Lorenzo Marcantonio
On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 06:04:46PM -, Daniel Santos wrote:
 Hmm, while I'm not certain, we may be talking about the same thing, but
 from a different standpoint.  I don't see any reference in the gerber
 spec to the word raster. If you are talking about drawing straight
 lines with an apeture to to rasterize your own image, I'm wondering if
 this falls into the catagory of stroke painting which unamco is
 claiming to be harmful (see the PDF named Gerber File Format:
 Painting Considered Harmful on the page
 http://www.ucamco.com/downloads.aspx).

Yes, that is however referred to copper pours. It is indeed a deprecated
way to fill zones (however pcbnew still supports it), mainly because
it's difficult to handle with CAM processors, to check netlists and
fabrication rules. However text is (hopefully) far from copper areas or
on the silkscreen so it doesn't suffer from these drawbacks.

The main problem with area fills with fonts it the model used to
represent outlines and suboutlines (i.e. internal cutouts); the font
model uses the common 'postscript' model:

- Outlines are described with lines, quadric and cubic curves, depending
  on the font: truetype uses quadrics, Type1/CFF uses cubics; lines are
  represented as the obvious degeneration of said curves; orientation of
  the (sub)outlines is consistent and mandatory (I don't remember the
  details);

- Sub-outlines are handled closing the current outline and opening a new
  one. Inner area is described (IIRC) using the winding rule (need to
  check for details on this and on self intersecting outlines).

If you ever used Corel Draw/Adobe Illustrator/Inkscape that's the usual
graphic model for handling outlines.

Gerber instead uses a way different (and simpler) model for outlines:

- Outlines are described with lines and circular arcs (as different
  primitives), orientation is not defined nor required;

- There are no suboutlines, internal cutouts have to be represented with
  a zero-width isthmus cutting thru the filled area to the cutout. Page
  49 better explains that.

The most similar thing I can think of are autocad polylines and shapes.
In fact SHP/SHX fonts are described exactly as polylines and I actually
have a working converter from SHP to the Hershey encoding used by kicad
(my ISO branch uses an hand-tuned version of the ISOCP font). 

The first difference is easily handled approximating the curves with lines
(fun fact: the bezier curves used by fonts can't actually exactly
describe circular arcs, which are the only gerber supported curves).
However the difference on suboutlines need to be resolved with
a numerically stable way to find a good point to cut the filled area:
think about the eye in the R glyph: you need to find a non
self-intersecting line connecting the perimeter with the eye (the
@ glyph is left as an exercise:D). The stability condition is needed
because the entry line and the exit line must be exactly overlapped to
avoid artifacts (remember: they can't self intersect so they must be the
same!). I'm not saying it can't be done but needs considerable
computational geometry experience (which I don't have...i.e. I haven't
a good idea on how to do it in the general case).

 However, it was my understanding that a modern photoplotter would take
 your contour regions and rasterize them to produce the final output,
 leaving you to just draw what you need in as simple of terms as possible
 and let the plotter rasterize it.  Please correct me if I'm
 misunderstanding something here.

Yes, the plotter give you a (polyesther, probably) film with these
characteristics. However usually the film simply produces an images over
a coarse grid of wires (which can even have 0.2mm pitch with some
processes!). Look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ssc.jpg

There are different, more expensive, processes which gives you better
resolution, of course.

Anyway all the board I've seen screened with a non-vector font had the
raster shapes quite visible under magnification (you see the round line
caps on the left and side of the letters), so I'd assume that's the
industry standard practice.

The idea of using gerber fills for filling glyphs is interesting anyway,
let me know if you manage to handle that.

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-12 Thread Daniel Santos
From a cursory examination of the Gerber spec (which I've never worked
with before). It looks like the appropriate way to render an arbitrary
font from it's vector representation is to render each non-contiguous
shape of each glyph as a single contour (enable region mode with G36,
draw the contour and then end the region mode with G37).  Now this is
tricky for many reasons.

1. The contour cannot self-intersect, except for coincidental segments, i.e., 
those who's start and end vertices are identical.  This isn't a bad thing 
alone. The bad part is that non-coincidental intersections can occur due to 
rounding, creating a bad gerber for one device that is rendering it, but not 
another. :(  Thus, we have to know in advance what this minimal pixel rounding 
value will be so we don't accidentally generate a bad gerber.
2. We don't get to work with actual polynomials, so everything has to be 
converted into straight lines and arcs.
3. Dealing with holes in glyphs (as in the letters 'O', 'p' and 'B') is a 
little bit of a pain because you have to add them as additional layers. If that 
hole needs to have something inside of it (I can't think of any English or 
Latin character examples), then 3 layers must be used, etc.

So I would say that the way to perform this conversion is basically to
have some type of resolution setting, but not in pixels, just to say how
the glyph will be approximated and control the number of gerber
instructions. Then an engine to render the glyphs into approximations
using straight lines and arcs (for the outline) followed by holes (and
possibly shapes within those holes, as there are quite likely languages
that will need this). All of this while avoiding illegal overlaps in
verticies as they may occur after rounding, even rounding as a result of
progressive processing on a single contour! (See ยง4.4.8 of the spec,
page 58 for one example of this.)

To make this even more fun, it would seem that there would also be a
need to render the font on-screen that way as well, so that we can
actually see what we're going to get.  I suppose, that that part won't
be as difficult as the actual conversion into a gerber-compatible
format, although it sounds like it may be a pain.  For example, if
rendering straight to opengl, you can't draw convex polygons, you have
to break them into triangles, etc.

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-11 Thread Launchpad Bug Tracker
Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

** Changed in: kicad (Ubuntu)
   Status: New = Confirmed

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-11 Thread Daniel Santos
Hello guys.  I see that this bug is fairly old, but as a person recently
introduced to Kicad, I must tell you that the font appearance was an
immediate turn-off!  I know this sounds bubble-gum, twitter-ish, gen-me
shallow, but first appearances really have a profound impact on the
*perception* of quality.

It's been a while since I've played with fonts, but I agree that the
font should not be compiled in and one should definately NOT have to
manually draw a font! In fact, by zooming in on the schematic view and
not researching at all, I could tell that the font was custom made from
straight lines.  So in other words, it's obvious.

It is my uneducated opinion that we *should* be able to use some
existing font library to transform vector fonts into the language of
gerber without too much problem, although I can't comment on what it
would take to make the change in kicad. IMHO, the design should have
abstracted the font from the start, although I realize the importance of
sometimes just getting a product done and accepting costs like hard-
coded fonts.

Is anybody still working on this?

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Re: [Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-11 Thread Wayne Stambaugh
On 10/11/2013 2:19 PM, Daniel Santos wrote:
 Hello guys.  I see that this bug is fairly old, but as a person recently
 introduced to Kicad, I must tell you that the font appearance was an
 immediate turn-off!  I know this sounds bubble-gum, twitter-ish, gen-me
 shallow, but first appearances really have a profound impact on the
 *perception* of quality.
 
 It's been a while since I've played with fonts, but I agree that the
 font should not be compiled in and one should definately NOT have to
 manually draw a font! In fact, by zooming in on the schematic view and
 not researching at all, I could tell that the font was custom made from
 straight lines.  So in other words, it's obvious.

If you read all of messages in this bug report, I don't think anyone
would disagree with you that the stroke fonts are less than ideal.  They
do allow us to guarantee the accuracy of the output.

 
 It is my uneducated opinion that we *should* be able to use some
 existing font library to transform vector fonts into the language of
 gerber without too much problem, although I can't comment on what it
 would take to make the change in kicad. IMHO, the design should have
 abstracted the font from the start, although I realize the importance of
 sometimes just getting a product done and accepting costs like hard-
 coded fonts.

I doubt there is anything easy about using some existing font library
to transform them into the gerber format unless you don't care about
accuracy or someone else is doing the work ( which I find are always the
easiest tasks to do :) ).  If it was easy, someone would have done it by
now.  KiCad is getting to the point where there are not many easy tasks
left to do.  Most of the wishlist issues are very significant
development efforts that require some financial incentive to motivate
developers to work on them or high quality patches that don't require a
huge amount of lead developer time to commit.  While I agree that there
is a difference between rendering fonts in the schematic editor where
the output accuracy isn't as critical as the board font rendering,
Pcbnew and Eeschema share common font rendering code so it's not that
easy to replace.

 
 Is anybody still working on this?
 

I don't think anyone ever worked on this other than take a look at the
effort involved.  If you are feeling motivated, by all means give it a
try.  We are always looking for motivate developers who are willing to
work with the KiCad development team.

Wayne

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2013-10-11 Thread Daniel Santos
 or someone else is doing the work ( which I find are always the
 easiest tasks to do :) ). 

Yes, so very true! :)

 If you are feeling motivated, by all means give it a
 try. We are always looking for motivate developers who are willing to
 work with the KiCad development team.

Sadly, I'm famous for getting side-tracked by stuff like this so maybe I
can at least investigate it.

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[Bug 668145] Re: Font preferences not available anymore, internal font changed

2012-01-11 Thread Marius Kotsbak
ApportVersion: 1.23-0ubuntu4
Architecture: i386
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 11.10
NonfreeKernelModules: ksplice_pbmwgiu0_vmlinux_new ksplice_pbmwgiu0 
ksplice_ct7sazfs ksplice_krmjnvxg ksplice_hx623fn0 ksplice_4oeja2uc 
ksplice_41483s1e_vmlinux_new ksplice_41483s1e ksplice_6dc7tpwy_vmlinux_new 
ksplice_6dc7tpwy ksplice_afp00loi_vmlinux_new ksplice_afp00loi 
ksplice_teqoo91w_vmlinux_new ksplice_teqoo91w ksplice_qyp5yxfp_vmlinux_new 
ksplice_qyp5yxfp ksplice_vxo5sfg6_vmlinux_new ksplice_vxo5sfg6 
ksplice_xjvtfy6n_vmlinux_new ksplice_xjvtfy6n ksplice_aoyveuuh_vmlinux_new 
ksplice_aoyveuuh ksplice_uxyxwka2_vmlinux_new ksplice_uxyxwka2 nvidia
Package: kicad 0.0.20110616-1
PackageArchitecture: i386
ProcEnviron:
 SHELL=/bin/bash
 PATH=(custom, user)
 LANG=nb_NO.UTF-8
 LANGUAGE=nb_NO:nb:no_NO:no:nn_NO:nn:en
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 3.0.0-12.20-generic-pae 3.0.4
Tags:  oneiric
Uname: Linux 3.0.0-12-generic-pae i686
UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to oneiric on 2011-10-14 (88 days ago)
UserGroups: adm admin audio cdrom dialout dip floppy fuse lpadmin plugdev 
vboxusers video


** Changed in: kicad
   Status: New = Confirmed

** Also affects: kicad (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Undecided
   Status: New

** Tags added: apport-collected oneiric

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