[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Also You can also note that GNOME3 removed the minimize button from their wm controls, you can read their rational on https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2011-February/msg00192.html The last sentence of this says: The real form of feedback that we need going from GNOME 3.0 to 3.2 is careful observation of how users are using GNOME 3 - are they figuring out how to use the overview and workspaces and message tray as we expect them to use them, or are they doing cumbersome workarounds because we took away essential features. This is quite different of what happens here. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Hoping that enough people read this, I will write a few more words here: I started a discussion on the Ubuntu Power Users mailing list (Ubuntu- power-us...@lists.ubuntu.com) and I want to invite you all to join the list and participate in the conversation/discussion. I hope there is a chance that at least some people of Canonical will listen to the results of the discussion in the group. Especially I tried -- or am trying-- to convince the users there that we need a tool for a better configuration of the system (especially Dash and Launcher). And we need it to be installed by default in the normal standard installation of Ubuntu. A good start would be, for instance, to have Marco Biscaro's, patch integrated in Ubuntu and make it a configurable option. So the default behaviour would still be according the design decisions but one still can change the behaviour via the configuration tool. Another things would be to trip Ubuntu Tweak down to some basic feature and add to this trimmed down version those configuration options which, for some moronic reason, are currently only accessible via CCSM. I think that especially these Unity options , which are integrated in CCSM, should be part of the Unity/Ubuntu version of the normal Gnome Control Panel. There is not sense to make a user download CCSM just to change some basic behaviour of the system. Additionally the main problem is that CCSM is dangerous: I do not know how often exactly I broke Unity because I changed something in CCSM. So that is not good and we need to do something against it. I hope that at least Jono Bacon will live up to his functions as a community manager and answer to those complaints on the Ubuntu Power Users List. Maybe we can work together so that they will at last listen to our complaints. So again, please join the list and perhaps we will find a way to improve Unity. And perhaps we will manage to Unity those two groups of users which currently are separated by the policies of the Canonical developers. I want an Ubuntu with Unity. And I want this Ubuntu to be a good choice for normal users and for advanced users. It must be possible to get to this point somehow. Perhaps they will listen to us, if we all together join this mailing list and start to come up with ideas via the normal way. I hope that Jono will answer to the complaints on the list within the next day. Otherwise I would be very disappointed by Canonical's efforts to listen to its community and communicate with its community. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
@#135 about more or less technical users: If you (Canonical) don't respect the needs of the technical users, you possibly make it more difficult to reach the 200 Million users goal: The technical users are multiplicatiors for other, less technical, normal users: They tell them about the possibility of another OS, they can convince them about the advantages of this OS, they can help to install and to manage the OS. In the past, I recommended Ubuntu to friends and family and convinced quite some of them to use Ubuntu. But now, I can't recommend Ubuntu any more. It is not just this bug, but this is symptomatic: My main argument for choosing Ubuntu was the great ability to configure it to personal needs. (One of the first things I showed to new users was the great flexibility of the old gnome panel.) Now this argument is lost (unless you use another DE, which I do, but I'm not sure whether this is a good choice for less technical users...), Canonical-Ubuntu became a less-is-more,-take-it-or-leave-it thing, just like Mac OS. Conclusion: If you focus too much on less technical users, you risk to lose both technical and less technical users. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Workspace switcher icon, Applications icon (the one with plus sign in a cap of coffee), Files and Folders icon and Ubuntu icon, also every icon in top panel work in the way that on one click they show something, on another they hide it. Is this also confusing to users? I don't think so. So, why the same behaviour with minimising application's windows might be confusing? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Apparently canonical's targeted userbase will start drooling on their keyboards even more if they're presented with such an option. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/6/25 mmiicc mpredo...@gmail.com Workspace switcher icon, Applications icon (the one with plus sign in a cap of coffee), Files and Folders icon and Ubuntu icon, also every icon in top panel work in the way that on one click they show something, on another they hide it. Is this also confusing to users? I don't think so. So, why the same behaviour with minimising application's windows might be confusing? And if not minimization, then rig the button to disable scale mode on second click (first click shows all open windows side by side, second click returns to normal). It is extremely unintuitive that, by default, you cannot escape scale mode once you enable it, no matter what you try: click on the icon (doesn't work), click on the desktop (doesn't work), click on the panel (doesn't work), click on a random window (works, but brings that window on top even if you don't want that). I'm starting to think that some dogfooding could improve Unity significantly. Take the designers' Macs away and force them to use Unity exclusively for a couple of months and some of these won't fix issues might just be reconsidered. Hm, make that Unity+Inkscape+GIMP and record their reactions, too. (Yes, I'm being ridiculous here. Mostly. It's obvious that this bug report is now dead.) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Well, I tried using the branch with the source of unity 3.6.18 and to my surprise I found that unexpectedly, It behaves the same way as normal unity. I had installed it in /opt/unity and I had verified that I was running the same installation. Is there some other setting that needs to be done to use the compiled unity. I successfully builded unity (after building nux) following http://www.faqoverflow.com/askubuntu/28470.html Can anyone figure out what's going wrong. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
@seb128: Softwares behaviour can't please all users who have different workflows Agree, but they should provide options to try get closer to please these users, at least. The unity choices are often driven by design and confirmed or not by user testing. Those commenting that quite some users showed in that bug they don't agree the decision, it doesn't mean those use are representative, those who know enough to use a bug tracker and care enough to comment on it are quite technical users, their need might be different from most of the non technical users. Yes, but how many technical users participate of these user testing? I'm sure that this kind of users is a representative part of Ubuntu ecosystem. You can also note that GNOME3 removed the minimize button from their wm controls, you can read their rational on https://mail.gnome.org/archives /gnome-shell-list/2011-February/msg00192.html Sure, *but* the minimize button can be enabled again through gnome- tweak-tool. This way, the non-technical users that don't use minimize at all, have no unecessary buttons and more technical users that want this button back, can enable it. I think it's clear that there is a difference between the two decisions (from GNOME team and Canonical). Anyway, I think that, unfortunately, the decision is already take. @rohit-kumar-saraf: the unity trunk version doesn't include this functionality (my branch, that is linked to this report has the new functionality, but there is a known bug - related to bug #724045 - that I'll not fix, since the new code won't be merged with trunk). -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
I guess the main question is: whether these cases (this and some other wontfixes) are just an acidents (because of bad patches code, bad moon phases, or seasonal affective disorder among Aetana), or this is general developement policy (to ignore users' feedback, make design desisions more priority over users' opinion, and making users away of being able to customize desktop). In latter case, as SRoesgen emotionaly stated, we cannot expect any more good from Unity mainstream and should just completely quit using Unity, keeping all our users/customers/relatives/colleagues (whom we tech support by job or by friendship) away from it, switching to some other, more friendly and customizable, desktop systems. In first case, a solution could be to fork Unity and make parallel, more democratic distribution, with less responsibilities, but with more fits to users expectations. There are already several refused patches to apply, several requested features to implement, and at least one package (ubuntutweak) to integrate. This could be the way to make ubuntu for people -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Could you stop such comments? Softwares behaviour can't please all users who have different workflows, the fact that the unity team took design decisions which are different from your habits doesn't mean those are wrong, they might take less technical users and confusing behaviour for them in consideration. The unity choices are often driven by design and confirmed or not by user testing. Those commenting that quite some users showed in that bug they don't agree the decision, it doesn't mean those use are representative, those who know enough to use a bug tracker and care enough to comment on it are quite technical users, their need might be different from most of the non technical users. You can also note that GNOME3 removed the minimize button from their wm controls, you can read their rational on https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell- list/2011-February/msg00192.html -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Some extra comments: When the window of a program/application is already focused and you click the corresponding launcher icon (of that program) you expect usually that something happens You might do, but non technical users might get really confused if they dialog go away because they click on the show me the application icon twice by error (double click instead of simple click for example) Note that hidden options have a cost in work, code readability and bugs, the unity team decided from the start to focus on solid code and having things done one way and well rather than letting lot of flexibility and options and having buggy code -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Everyone who wants to use a computer will have to learn how to use it. non technical users might get really confused if their dialog goes away because they click on the show me the application icon twice by error They'll figure it out eventually. Meanwhile people who know what they want to do are perpetually annoyed by decisions like this. I thought since mostly technical people consciously use linux they'd figure more in canonical's plans. Not catering to them will probably turn out to be a bad decision. If non buggy code was such a high priority unity should have been optional for a couple of ubuntu releases more. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/6/24 Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com Some extra comments: When the window of a program/application is already focused and you click the corresponding launcher icon (of that program) you expect usually that something happens You might do, but non technical users might get really confused if they dialog go away because they click on the show me the application icon twice by error (double click instead of simple click for example) Citation needed - otherwise this is no better than the anecdotal evidence provided here by users that this behavior *is* confusing and unintuitive. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
First of all: thanks to you Marco for fixing this! @John Lea and the Canonical team What I do not understand is the politics behind some of the decisions here: 1) there is a huge number of users who want a change to the current state of things and gladly somebody had the abilities to implement these changes into code 2) The code is seemingly good enough that it can be packaged and made available for download 3) Considering the representative number of voters I would assume that there are a lot of people who would want to use these changes of the behaviour of the launcher's icons. 4) The designers and developers are always talking about making the unity desktop and Ubuntu a good and comfortable experience. 5) What exactly is comfortable in having to download an extra package (i.e. patch) to get some more functionality. If this will be done to every simple wish of the users you will have to call Ubuntu no a system for human beings but instead a system for patchworks. Where is the problem of making this at least a configuration option? Like the option which makes you decide when the launcher disappears and when not? 6) If there are so many users voting for a change it is a blatantly impudent answer to make this a downloadable patch. Make this at least an option in Ubuntu. Some kind of checkbox or drop down menu option. A user invested some of his private time to get this fixed. He tried to help Ubuntu via this contribution. It is like hitting him, and everybody who voted for this bug to be fixed, in the face. Simply packaging the code and making it available for download is something for which Canonical's support is not needed; to make a thing downloadable, that is something which a user can make himself. People here voted for this bug because they saw the need for this to be implemented as this is an expected behaviour of the launcher which is not met. To click on an icon an nothing happen that is behaviour which is really unexpected. It makes the system appear as if there were something to working correctly. It was discussed above: you click on the launcher icon of an application which is already focused and nothing will happen. Well, wonderful! Among the bugs I have seen, this is the third bug now, for which many people voted and which is set to Won't Fix after a very long discussion. I am considering the possibility to post a bug request on launchpad: I want to get rid of the this bug affects me option, because it seems that voting on this option does not have any sense. Bugs get fixed and implemented when one or two persons vote for them, other bugs are not implemented at all, even if 100 people vote for them. You do not want anybody to vote: you ignore the votes. So please remove the option. It is better that way. You only disappoint the users who think that they can change something by voting for bugs to be fixed or features to be implemented. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
SRoesgen: I would personally like to see this too, but I do think we have to see the other side of the argument too. This is a feature request, not a bug (at least for my definition of a bug, others may disagree), and the this affects me too is not really a way of voting for new features but a way of judging the impact of a bug. So all it says is that at least ninety users of Ubuntu would like this changed. Ubuntu has a lot of users, and while it is well possible that a lot of them would also like this change we can't just conclude that without more evidence. The fact that we would like it may well make us more inclined to think so. And you also have to realise that accepting a patch is more responsibility than just changing some code and forgetting about it. Patches, even small ones (and this one adds to user-visible configuration interfaces, so it can't be treated as trivial) increase code size and maintenance work. In the end, the person writing the code (or their employer) is the one who gets to decide what it will look like, which is (in my opinion) fair as they have to shoulder the burden. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
@All The problem I have with this whole decision is that a real question was raised in the whole discussion and then it was ignored: 1) When the window of a program/application is already focused and you click the corresponding launcher icon (of that program) you expect usually that something happens 2) The current behaviour is: nothing happens 3) nothing is really not very much (forgive me the irony) 4) The patch submitted by Marc is really interesting because it sees to the fact that there should never be a button (or menu option, or link, or check-box...) which does not show any reaction when a user clicks on it 5) If the path is not accepted this bug report still cannot/must not be set to won't fix. The reason for this is simple: you still have a user who expects a reaction when he clicks on the icon. If there is a situation where this expectation if not fulfilled (ergo nothing happens) then there is still an error present. 6) This is perhaps not the original bug report. But still the question was raised during the discussion of this report. 7) I would at least expect another proposal. For instance, if the window is already focused and somebody clicks still on the icon you can have an effect that makes the window glow for a second so that one sees that the launcher icon indeed does not serve in hiding/minimizing the windows but instead focuses them. In case of an environment where the whole desktop is cluttered by different small windows this would even help in showing which window is active in the moment (though this would be a side effect, for I usually expect a user to know which window he/she is currently using). @Michael Concerning the idea that somebody has to maintain a patch: I know that. There are two possibilites 1) Canonical closes launchpad for the public and makes it a system where people can only post the bugs they found. And in the best case even that should not be possible and instead all bug requests should be filed via apport. So they won't get any patches by users which they would have to maintain. And on the other hand no user will be disappointed that he/she invested much time in fixing a bug and still the work he/she put in it won't be appreciated. (Certainly the possibility to reject a patch because of lacking quality should be considered. This would indeed be a reason to reject a patch.) The solution to send the bug reports via apport (and only apport) is ideal because thus a users will not have the possibility to request changes which belong to a wishlist and therefore Canonical is spared from any discussion about their design decisions. Normal users which have a own opinion will still rage and rave about some of these design decisions because one sometimes gets the idea that decisions were made without much thinking and discussion, but as there are many good design decisions made as well, this should not be a problem because many people will be content with what they get. 2) You (meaning Canonical) accept the fact that people post requests in which they demand changes to the system. But Canonical should then make clear that they do not want any extra work from non-canonical members because they are not willing to maintain patches from users. So do not post any messages on planet.ubuntu or anywhere to get people to fix bugs, as I deem this insolent. Canonical cannot request users to work for free on those bugs they deem worthy to be worked on but completely ignore those bugs in which they are not interested. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2) You (meaning Canonical) accept the fact that people post requests in which they demand changes to the system. But Canonical should then make clear that they do not want any extra work from non-canonical members because they are not willing to maintain patches from users. So do not post any messages on planet.ubuntu or anywhere to get people to fix bugs, as I deem this insolent. Canonical cannot request users to work for free on those bugs they deem worthy to be worked on but completely ignore those bugs in which they are not interested. Bugfixing is not the same as adding functionality or changing the direction of the design of the project. The design team and the ayatana community have worked hard to create a design vision for Unity, and it is clear that we want something that is consistent with the goals of Canonical Design and Ayatana. Thus, those who create the product have a voice in the direction it goes in. This is no different to the way it works in KDE, or GNOME or any other distribution with module proposals and the like. On the other hand, we actively encourage developers to submit patches and create branches which enhance the product based on the overall vision of the product or fix things which do not work in the way that they are supposed to work in the product. That kind of participation is beneficial for everybody, because it means that everyone is working on a project with a similar vision rather than a fragmented vision. I wouldn't frame this as free work, that's missing the entire point of the community around the Unity (and compiz) projects. I've met our contributors personally and I can see that they share the exact same vision as everybody else on the Desktop Experience team and the Design Team. There are going to be points of contention where the vision diverges in small places. However, I can say that from my many years of working for free in open source communities and projects, it is as much as being valued as a member of the team as it is achieving a vision that you want too. People contribute because they are passionate about the project, just as Canonical employees choose to work for Canonical because they are passionate about making Ubuntu win. You received this bug notification because you are a member of Unity Bugs, which is subscribed to unity in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon Status in Ayatana Design: Won't Fix Status in Unity: Won't Fix Status in “unity” package in Ubuntu: Won't Fix Bug description: What I do miss in Natty (Alpha 3 + daily builds) is the possibility to click on the app. icon on the Unity launcher bar to minimize all windows of that application, not only to launch/restore it. mlaverdiere's futher addition: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/comments/2 My suggestion would be to modify the interaction-design/process like this (*=my modification proposal/2 cents!): 1) start it, if it hasn't been started yet; *2) restore it, if it is minimized; *3) focus the app, if it's started, not minimized and has not the focus yet; 4) spread windows (of app), if app is focused and has multiple windows open; *5) minimize it if it is in spread-mode (see 4). To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- Sam Spilsbury -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/6/23 Sam Spilsbury smspil...@gmail.com 2) You (meaning Canonical) accept the fact that people post requests in which they demand changes to the system. But Canonical should then make clear that they do not want any extra work from non-canonical members because they are not willing to maintain patches from users. So do not post any messages on planet.ubuntu or anywhere to get people to fix bugs, as I deem this insolent. Canonical cannot request users to work for free on those bugs they deem worthy to be worked on but completely ignore those bugs in which they are not interested. Bugfixing is not the same as adding functionality or changing the direction of the design of the project. The design team and the ayatana community have worked hard to create a design vision for Unity, and it is clear that we want something that is consistent with the goals of Canonical Design and Ayatana. Thus, those who create the product have a voice in the direction it goes in. This is no different to the way it works in KDE, or GNOME or any other distribution with module proposals and the like. Indeed. But as you can see from the community response to this design choice, there *is* an issue here and this issue might merit reconsideration in the design. SRoesgen summed things up succinctly: when you click on an icon, you expect something to happen. When nothing happens, the icon feels broken. *What* should happen is something that the design team can and should consider. A few people have suggested minimization - rejected - but there are other, potentially even better, possibilities. Why am I being so persistent here? Because several users I support have commented on this behavior spontaneously - and I had nothing better to offer other than it's by design (reply: what?) and that Unity is still under heavy development (reply: ah, so they'll fix it). Anecdotal evidence but easily reproducible. Just place someone in front an Ubuntu laptop, let him go about his daily tasks (browsing, messaging, maybe edit a document) and have him comment on his actions and feelings. It won't take long, especially if he uses a low-resolution monitor (e.g. 1366x768) which requires frequent window management. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Just make it as Docky. On a click when; 1) If all windows are visible, all windows should minimize. 2) If one of the windows of the same group is minimized, but others are visbible it should restore all windows 3) If all windows are minimized, **all** of them restore old position I see no ambiguity in this, it is behaviour I learned to like for as long as I used Docky, it is intuitive and I see no problems with this flow. Don't make it more complicated then it is, but offering no minimize but only restore is silly. It requires me to do a whole lot more mousework if I quickly want to toggle a browser window to the front and back when for example I read API docs when I am developing in Eclipse. I am not using Unity right now, for that specific reason, it drives me crazy that it seems to be 'off' behaviour wise. Every task mamager works like that and worked like that for ages. Don't break this expected behaviour, so yes in my eyes it is a bug. - Jorgen On 06/23/2011 02:50 PM, The Fiddler wrote: 2011/6/23 Sam Spilsburysmspil...@gmail.com 2) You (meaning Canonical) accept the fact that people post requests in which they demand changes to the system. But Canonical should then make clear that they do not want any extra work from non-canonical members because they are not willing to maintain patches from users. So do not post any messages on planet.ubuntu or anywhere to get people to fix bugs, as I deem this insolent. Canonical cannot request users to work for free on those bugs they deem worthy to be worked on but completely ignore those bugs in which they are not interested. Bugfixing is not the same as adding functionality or changing the direction of the design of the project. The design team and the ayatana community have worked hard to create a design vision for Unity, and it is clear that we want something that is consistent with the goals of Canonical Design and Ayatana. Thus, those who create the product have a voice in the direction it goes in. This is no different to the way it works in KDE, or GNOME or any other distribution with module proposals and the like. Indeed. But as you can see from the community response to this design choice, there *is* an issue here and this issue might merit reconsideration in the design. SRoesgen summed things up succinctly: when you click on an icon, you expect something to happen. When nothing happens, the icon feels broken. *What* should happen is something that the design team can and should consider. A few people have suggested minimization - rejected - but there are other, potentially even better, possibilities. Why am I being so persistent here? Because several users I support have commented on this behavior spontaneously - and I had nothing better to offer other than it's by design (reply: what?) and that Unity is still under heavy development (reply: ah, so they'll fix it). Anecdotal evidence but easily reproducible. Just place someone in front an Ubuntu laptop, let him go about his daily tasks (browsing, messaging, maybe edit a document) and have him comment on his actions and feelings. It won't take long, especially if he uses a low-resolution monitor (e.g. 1366x768) which requires frequent window management. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
The user-community is bagging for more ways to configure Unity. This one would have been a fine and desired option. But OK, I don't mind, I'm not using Unity anymore. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
@The Fiddler Thank you. @All I personally would like to discuss the whole topic of design decisions. I know that to some I am becoming a nuisance because this is not the first bug where I start complaining about the term design decision but, to me, it seems to be the source of many disputes. Why shouldn't users be able to configure some options if they do not like them? It is a design decision is not the ultimative answer to all questions concerning changes to the behaviour of the system. And it must not be the only answer. I can understand Jorgen Bodde, when he states that he does not use unity because he does not like a specific behaviour of the launcher. I myself use unity, despite the fact that I want the launcher at the bottom and not at the left side, and despite the fact that I want windows to minimize when I click a launcher icon. Still I hate these things I want to reconfigure. I stick with Ubuntu at the moment because I really hope that we will see a change in the system. I hope we will see more options to configure the system. If it won't be possible to configure more options of the system, I will search for another distribution. Perhaps in a year or so. I really want to use Ubuntu and I want to use Unity. But I will not pay any price. I hate it if an operating system dictates me my workflow. An operating system must be configurable, so that I can modify the system to meet my needs. I am the user, I am the customer, I am the client and thus I am the one to whom the system has to bow. At the moment it is the opposite: the system controls my behaviour and my workflow. This is wrong. If it is a design decision to have a launcher at the left and an icon to do nothing if it is clicked under certain circumstances then this is ok for me only under one condition: if I can change this behaviour, I really liked the idea of Jono's power user community. But, honestly, I do not want to install extra tools to do some basic modifications to the system. Heck! What next? Will Ubuntu 12.04 include the great feature of a fixed wallpaper which I cannot change, because of a design decision? Or will I be forced to never open more than five windows at once, because of a design decision, where somebody of the Ayatana team decided that more than five windows per virtual desktop are confusing the normal users? Will I need Ubuntu Tweak to change the desktop wallpaper, or to change the resolution of my screen, or to change the system sounds? I find it already restricting enough that I have to install CCSM to configure the behaviour of the launcher. Especially if CCSM is cluttered with unnecessary options, especially if it does not work correctly with unity and easily breaks the system but just clicking on the wrong option. Tell me, anybody, where is Ubuntu going? Are 91 voters enough to make obvious that something has to change? Or will this discussion be buried in silence because the official Canonical developers ignore it? Tell me, will this end like Bug 668415 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/668415) where 89 people voted for the simple possibility to configure the position of the launcher and instead gut rebuffed several times with the words this is a design decision? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Yes, these displays of hubris on the part of the unity development clan (which reflect on Ubuntu as a whole) are very unsettling and difficult to accept. I'm not sure if it's tunnel-vision with their eyes on a long- term goal with no distractions (read: options) or ignorance as to how users are accustomed to using computers regularly (read: dock launchers minimize windows). The number of me-too's here clearly reflect a great desire for at least the option, even if not by default, for this expected behavior. I simply cannot wrap my head around the fact that if Mark S. et al are actually using natty/oneiric with Unity, how they are not also frustrated by the extra mouse movement, mouse clicks, and eye movement which have now become necessary to accomplish ordinary (formerly simple) tasks of window management. That aside, if they think the current behavior is just dandy, why not throw the rest of us users a bone and allow this feature/behavior to be optional. The community responded with desire for this functionality. Marco, in turn, submitted a patch for review. Please now just review, fix the nits, and add the little tick-box in CCSM so we can enjoy using Unity efficiently. Done deal. Happy users. Is that not important any longer? 200,000 not looking likely with the attitude displayed here. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Oops. 200 _million_. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
I'm affected by the default behavior too. I will go with this setting : If the icon has just one app launched : 1- a clic on the icon should : - Minimize the app if this app has the focus. - re-show the app if it doesn't have focus or is minimize. If the icon has just more than one app launched (need to add this option on compiz expo Mode: - a clic on the icon should expose all the app for this icon and from the exposed mode we should have this functionality : # the possiblity to close the app from this mode (expose) # a clic on an instance should reveal or minimize that instance. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
This change will not be made directly in Unity, so marked as won't fix. However this should not prevent Marco's patch being packaged and made available for download by those desire this functionality. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Here in comments i found only pros. Is there discussion elsewhere? I'm wondering if it's possible to create a poll in launchpad to measure how much people want this feature back. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
I'm wondering if it's possible to create a poll in launchpad to measure how much people want this feature back. There's no democracy here in developement. And there're reasons for that. It's developers headache to implement and support a feature. Users do not pay for that. Don't know if Canonical does. The users poll is only affects me too click. Developers should decide. There're 26 committers of unity, and Shuttleworth is not one of them. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
** Changed in: ayatana-design Status: New = Won't Fix ** Changed in: ayatana-design Importance: Low = Undecided -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Why was this set to Won't Fix? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
See Mark's comment #26. I am not sure why this bug was reverted by 'Extender' but returning to correct status. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
It is quite odd if it is not implemented. Every window manager does it. Windows XP, Docky under Ubuntu, AWN, even pressing twice on the taskbar under traditional Gnome restores and minimizes the window. I urge to reconsider this trivial but essential piece of functionality. - Jorgen On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:09:36 -, John Lea wrote: ** Changed in: ayatana-design Status: New = Won't Fix ** Changed in: ayatana-design Importance: Low = Undecided -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Adding minimise will add complications... I really disagree. This function will only be available when explicit set in ccsm. People that can install ccsm and tweak unity will not experience difficulties in understand the show - spread - minimize cicle. And there is almost 100 people demonstrating interest in this feature here in this bug report and duplicates. when would it show the window? When would it show a spread of that apps windows? When would it minimise. Well, in comment #58 there is a proposed solution. Design team only needs to approve that (or to make the desired changes) and everything will be well defined. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Adding minimise will add complications... Did I miss the part where you now have to be a complete idiot to be able to use ubuntu? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
I'm pretty sure someone has already written a patch, either here or in the related ayatana discussion. In this case, it's just a matter of reviewing and approving the patch. It would be a shame to ignore one of the most subscribed-to bugs for Natty. 2011/6/20 Dimitris Papageorgiou 733...@bugs.launchpad.net Adding minimise will add complications... Did I miss the part where you now have to be a complete idiot to be able to use ubuntu? -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon Status in Ayatana Design: Won't Fix Status in Unity: Won't Fix Status in “unity” package in Ubuntu: Won't Fix Bug description: What I do miss in Natty (Alpha 3 + daily builds) is the possibility to click on the app. icon on the Unity launcher bar to minimize all windows of that application, not only to launch/restore it. mlaverdiere's futher addition: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/comments/2 My suggestion would be to modify the interaction-design/process like this (*=my modification proposal/2 cents!): 1) start it, if it hasn't been started yet; *2) restore it, if it is minimized; *3) focus the app, if it's started, not minimized and has not the focus yet; 4) spread windows (of app), if app is focused and has multiple windows open; *5) minimize it if it is in spread-mode (see 4). To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
the staus before was opinion, it was set by Mark Shuttleworth in #19:: Mark Shuttleworth wrote on 2011-04-21: Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Add 'minimize all windows' option to the quicklist of running applications #19 (...) status opinion Mark Changed in ayatana-design: status: Won't Fix → Opinion Please set it at least back to that and include the (already written!) patch from Marco Biscaro as an option! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
It would be a shame to ignore one of the most subscribed-to bugs for Natty. Indeed. This is one of the last things that makes Unity uncomfortable. Developers says that adding this functionality will bring some complications? I'm sure that present situation is more complicated! Come on, the patch is ready (by courtesy of Marco Biscaro), why don't you want to make Ubuntu users happy? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Are there any reasons to remove the feature, beside Shuttleworth's vision of complicatness? Here in comments i found only pros. Is there discussion elsewhere? Is there binary package or ppa available with Marco patch applied? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
There is no PPA yet. Em 20/06/2011 15:37, qmax 733...@bugs.launchpad.netescreveu: Are there any reasons to remove the feature, beside Shuttleworth's vision of complicatness? Here in comments i found only pros. Is there discussion elsewhere? Is there binary package or ppa available with Marco patch applied? -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to unity. https://bugs.launchpad -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
@Marco Biscaro: - The commit seems to work well in both modes. Looking mainly at the default mode it does add some useful left click action(s) The only thing that comes up is sometimes, when there are a # of same app windows open on various viewports, a previously minimised window will be un-minimized, other times it will not and a opened same type win. will be brought into focus There are quite a number of possible combos and scenarios, some not that common to occur Overall, while of little importance, I like the change, hope it gets merged -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Note - by importance I mean what or any other single user 'likes' -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Please, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNVi9cRwhyU You'll upload the code to a branch today for futher testing, and possible bugs fix. If no one find problems, I'll propose the merge with trunk. :) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
*I'll* upload the code to a branch today. Sorry for spamming... -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
@Marco Biscaro: Great! That is the way it should look! It's also very intuitive: You click on the launcher, the window minimizes right there. That just looks right. Good work! :-) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
You, sir, are a hero! Intuitive, great-looking *and* toggleable. It's perfect :) 2011/5/18 Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de @Marco Biscaro: Great! That is the way it should look! It's also very intuitive: You click on the launcher, the window minimizes right there. That just looks right. Good work! :-) -- You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon Status in Ayatana Design: New Status in Unity: Won't Fix Status in “unity” package in Ubuntu: Won't Fix Bug description: What I do miss in Natty (Alpha 3 + daily builds) is the possibility to click on the app. icon on the Unity launcher bar to minimize all windows of that application, not only to launch/restore it. mlaverdiere's futher addition: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/comments/2 My suggestion would be to modify the interaction-design/process like this (*=my modification proposal/2 cents!): 1) start it, if it hasn't been started yet; *2) restore it, if it is minimized; *3) focus the app, if it's started, not minimized and has not the focus yet; 4) spread windows (of app), if app is focused and has multiple windows open; *5) minimize it if it is in spread-mode (see 4). To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscribe -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
** Branch linked: lp:~marcobiscaro2112/unity/fixes-733349 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Just to add to the volume of opinion, if not the strength of the argument - I consistently try to click on the icon to minimise it. Working with a work desktop with Windows 7 on it and a work laptop with Gnome 'classic' on it and Unity at home, I find it hard to switch behaviours. And while it may be designed like this it 'feels' like a missing feature. I guess I wouldnt mind if it did something else, but at the moment I cant even launch another copy of the program. At the very least give us the option to tweak the behaviour. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
I can't change the bug status in unity, but I'm now working on this bug. I'm implementing the solution proposed in comment #58. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
@Marco: If you can successfully implement the exact behaviors detailed in your solution from comment #58 I will be one _very_ happy camper! Thanks for picking this up! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
This is ridiculous that the title is being changed so often, no-one else for the last 2months was misled by the title. Most users will use the term 'minimize' so that is what should be in the title. This AU question is a prime example: http://askubuntu.com/questions/36433/why-cant-i-use- the-unity-launcher-icon-to-minimize-applications-windows ** Summary changed: - Hide Applications upon clicking on Launcher Icons + Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Marco Biscaro wrote: Why should the launcher suddenly hide windows? Again: because applications can not be hidden. Citation needed. Or please explain yourself. I've explained and justified my statements, I've heard no counterarguments other than No, I disagree. (There is no /the/ *window*; app != windows because: global menu and icon with optional overlays; can not be pinned: you are missing a yet; apps can be hidden, just not in traditional Linux DEs because they all were window-centric till Unity) The Fiddler wrote: I don't think so: the launcher is used to create a new *window* for an application or to bring the *window* of that application up. As far I know, applications that does not have a window can not be pinned (and aren't even shown) in launcher. Not only that, but the launcher can be used to *quit* an application. Isn't that completely inconsistent, illogical and simply *wrong*? This is getting ridiculous. Exactly. This *is* ridiculous. Please read up on the application and window-centric interface paradigms. I've posted about this on the mailing list several times and you can find other resources if you don't like listening to me. @Cas Do you deliberately chose to ignore my reasoned postings? I just wrote about how Minimize is the wrong term in the launcher, it's to be deprecated, a leftover from the gnome-panel. I elaborated on that in the mailing list. So because users will use the term start menu for the dash we should change all our bugs to reflect that? I agree on not changing the title further because everything that had to be said on this has been said and I hope whoever goes forward and implements this feature will read all comments. I'd still had preferred to call it all application's windows because: I don't think no one is going to be mislead by the previous titles. Most people complaining about this feature will not be content if it is implemented as in post #58. Many want the old task bar like minimizing back and this bug IS NOT about this issue. I've just opened a new bug for just this problem (among others): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/783498 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/5/16 Ed Lin 733...@bugs.launchpad.net The Fiddler wrote: I don't think so: the launcher is used to create a new *window* for an application or to bring the *window* of that application up. As far I know, applications that does not have a window can not be pinned (and aren't even shown) in launcher. Not only that, but the launcher can be used to *quit* an application. Isn't that completely inconsistent, illogical and simply *wrong*? This is getting ridiculous. Exactly. This *is* ridiculous. Please read up on the application and window-centric interface paradigms. I've posted about this on the mailing list several times and you can find other resources if you don't like listening to me. The requested functionality does not break the application-centric paradigm. Please try to pay a little more attention to what is being suggested here and in the ayatana mailing list. Let me reiterate: people wish to click on the launcher icon to hide the application, i.e. *all* windows belonging to that application. This is 100% equivalent to the Quit button we have now. I hope this is clear to you. If you have a counter-argument please write it. As for terminology: it doesn't matter. Call it minimize or hide, it. doesn't. matter. Personally, I would really appreciate it if you paid a little more attention to what they wrote, without preconceived ideas about what you think they wrote. I don't think no one is going to be mislead by the previous titles. Most people complaining about this feature will not be content if it is implemented as in post #58. Many want the old task bar like minimizing back and this bug IS NOT about this issue. I've just opened a new bug for just this problem (among others): Good, because gnome-panel-like minimization is not what people are requesting here. That's a totally different issue. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
@The Fiddler FYI you are misunderstanding me. It never was about this functionality breaking app-centric paradigms. It really only has been about definitions, differentiations and terminology, both in the bug discussion and in eventually user facing dialogs and options. I find it pretty ironic to hear that sort of wording directed against me but I hope we can continue discussing what actually matters and leave the non-essential parts of the discussion behind. I admit I should have opened that other bug sooner instead of cluttering this bug with a lot of back and forth arguing which essentially wasn't nearly important enough to get agitated about. What you won't hear from me is that I've not been paying attention, that I'm misunderstanding the issues or that my terms were incorrect. Back to the real topic: all windows belonging to an application is the same as the application from a Linux user's perspective. Both would work for them. That doesn't mean the chosen terminology doesn't matter to the user at all. I already delivered the counterargument (in fact argument because there -still- is nothing to counter) but I'll repeat it in case it got lost somehow: All windows of an application is not the same for: - OS X users (the only app-centric desktop interface that already had users to speak of) - people confused by all windows of an application vs. all windows on the desktop - Interface designers using accurate terminology (those aren't users but bug reports aren't really intended for users either) As for minimize vs hide: One minimizes a window *to* a taskbar button (usually depicted graphically by a _ or v like sign), while the other hides a window completely, it's gone from the desktop. It's not just a question of terminology (which *is* important when we are discussing interface design). The difference has important consequences for the user. Hidden windows behave very differently in a mental model, a user has to be somehow reminded that they are still open, he needs to know beforehand how to get the window back (animations can only be hints that which don't really change that). Minimized windows are simple, on a busy desktop they behave just like open windows behind other windows. By using the same terms in user facing elements for very different things it's not only inaccurate to looking dilettantish, we pretend nothing has changed, one could even say betray users or at least break user expectations. This obviously would be bad design. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/5/17 Ed Lin 733...@bugs.launchpad.net Back to the real topic: Good. all windows belonging to an application is the same as the application from a Linux user's perspective. Both would work for them. That doesn't mean the chosen terminology doesn't matter to the user at all. I already delivered the counterargument (in fact argument because there -still- is nothing to counter) but I'll repeat it in case it got lost somehow: All windows of an application is not the same for: - OS X users (the only app-centric desktop interface that already had users to speak of) - people confused by all windows of an application vs. all windows on the desktop - Interface designers using accurate terminology (those aren't users but bug reports aren't really intended for users either) This bug report explicitly refers to Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon . Not minimize application but minimize application windows. The fact that applications without visible windows exist is *completely irrelevant* to this bug report and resulting discussion. As for minimize vs hide: One minimizes a window *to* a taskbar button (usually depicted graphically by a _ or v like sign), while the other hides a window completely, it's gone from the desktop. It's not just a question of terminology (which *is* important when we are discussing interface design). The difference has important consequences for the user. Hidden windows behave very differently in a mental model, a user has to be somehow reminded that they are still open, he needs to know beforehand how to get the window back (animations can only be hints that which don't really change that). Minimized windows are simple, on a busy desktop they behave just like open windows behind other windows. Great. This bug report is about *minimizing* windows, so please open a different one for hide vs minimization and/or terminology matters. The rest is line noise that has little to do with the topic at hand. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
This bug report explicitly refers to Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon . Not minimize application but minimize application windows. Yes, because someone changed it. You remember the original title chosen by the bug reporter was Unity launcher buttons should allow to minimize apps, not just launch/restore? That's not helping your arguments and neither is stating your opinions as facts. I should open a bug about why terminology matters on launchpad? Really I thought we could put that behind us and then I get a flamebait like that. Anyway, in case anyone is wondering why I'm approaching this whole thing somewhat tediously, I'm trying to instill a certain mindset into the Unity design discussion, to treat UX more like science than usual code patching. It's my opinion that we should not put up with hacks, workarounds, inconsistencies and half baked so called solutions from the get-go when it comes to the user experience. By not using exact definitions when even attempting to start a discussion I can't see how such results can be avoided. The current state of Unity isn't exactly helping in dispelling my concerns. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
